Subcompact (micro, slimline, etc) Pistols - Experiences & Recommendations (Read 11953 times)

drck1000

My number one suggestion would be to try live fire with your trigger in different spots on your finger.  As with Glocks, often the shooter's hand is not perfectly sized for the standard grip, and it often causes a right handed person to push the trigger (and the muzzle) down and to the left.

I was able to overcome that mostly by attaching the grip backstrap on my Glocks to make the grip deeper, so the knuckle of my trigger finger is more in line with the rear of the trigger. 

I discovered this by sitting very still and very slowly dry firing the Glocks.  As the trigger fired, i saw the muzzle end of the gun move left.  After trying to compensate with different finger/knuckle positions on the trigger, I finally remembered the backstraps.  Viola!

So, first identify the problem.  If your trigger finger is moving the muzzle, you need to then identify why.  Maybe adjusting your weak hand grip will prevent it?  Or use the isometric grip where you press the hands against the sides of the gun but have a more relaxed grip.  Sometimes holding the grip way too tight creates a situation where you're so focused on grip pressure you miss everything else.
SNIP
Was that directed at me? or Begle?

If at me, apples and potatoes comparing 43x/48 and 19/17 etc.  I get that you're saying and yeah, I've tried/experimented and noticed.  But I wasn't referring to forgiveness on trigger pull/manipulations. More generally differences in grip sizes and individual grip/hands. 

The 43x & 48 don't come with backstraps, at least mine didn't.  I believe they have aftermarket.

ETA: And yeah. Dry firing, esp with red dots, you can def see more of when the gun is being "affected" but grip pressures, trigger pulls, etc. 
« Last Edit: August 01, 2024, 02:45:45 PM by drck1000 »

drck1000

Let a friend shoot your gun and see what they can do.  I've shot bad and had a much better shooter use the gun and it worked fine.  Indian, not the arrow.

Start at 3 yards. Until u can put all 10rds inside a golf ball, don't increase the distance. Then go to 5 yards and same. Then 7 and tangerine. Then 10 yards and orange.  Or something like this and do slow fire.

Then increase speed if you can constantly get golf ball grouping or orange groupings.
#aboveaverage

macsak

https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/624385

My number one suggestion would be to try live fire with your trigger in different spots on your finger.  As with Glocks, often the shooter's hand is not perfectly sized for the standard grip, and it often causes a right handed person to push the trigger (and the muzzle) down and to the left.

I was able to overcome that mostly by attaching the grip backstrap on my Glocks to make the grip deeper, so the knuckle of my trigger finger is more in line with the rear of the trigger. 

I discovered this by sitting very still and very slowly dry firing the Glocks.  As the trigger fired, i saw the muzzle end of the gun move left.  After trying to compensate with different finger/knuckle positions on the trigger, I finally remembered the backstraps.  Viola!

So, first identify the problem.  If your trigger finger is moving the muzzle, you need to then identify why.  Maybe adjusting your weak hand grip will prevent it?  Or use the isometric grip where you press the hands against the sides of the gun but have a more relaxed grip.  Sometimes holding the grip way too tight creates a situation where you're so focused on grip pressure you miss everything else.

macsak

macsak

drck1000

macsak

#rhymeswithfrontsight

#brah

#thisonetimeat

Flapp_Jackson

Was that directed at me? or Begle?

If at me, apples and potatoes comparing 43x/48 and 19/17 etc.  I get that you're saying and yeah, I've tried/experimented and noticed.  But I wasn't referring to forgiveness on trigger pull/manipulations. More generally differences in grip sizes and individual grip/hands. 

The 43x & 48 don't come with backstraps, at least mine didn't.  I believe they have aftermarket.

ETA: And yeah. Dry firing, esp with red dots, you can def see more of when the gun is being "affected" but grip pressures, trigger pulls, etc.

Not at anyone in particular.  Just a suggestion spelling out what helped me identify the problem.

I was interrupted mid-post, so i skipped over one other anecdote:  I had a Glock 42 .380 Auto.  Micro sounds too clinical.  This thing was tiny!!

i let several very good shooters try it at the pistol range.  They were lucky if 1 out of 5 shots landed anywhere on the target.

I was able to get 4-5 on target, and at least half of the total were acceptably close to the bullseye.  Had to manage expectations.  Can't expect quarter size groupings from every pistol you use.

I'd never use the G42 at 25 yds for real, or even 15 yards.  It's designed for up close and personal encounters.

What i'm getting at is it takes practice and a lot of analysis if you're not getting the results you need.  Maybe my experiences are different, but maybe someone else can find something useful from reading about them.

 :shaka:

« Last Edit: August 01, 2024, 03:50:18 PM by Flapp_Jackson »
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

drck1000

Not at anyone in particular.  Just a suggestion spelling out what helped me identify the problem.

I was interrupted mid-post, so i skipped over one other anecdote:  I had a Glock 42 .380 Auto.  Micro sounds too clinical.  This thing was tiny!!

i let several very good shooters try it at the pistol range.  They were lucky if 1 out of 5 shots landed anywhere on the target.

I was able to get 4-5 on target, and at least half of the total were acceptably close to the bullseye.  Had to manage expectations.  Can't expect quarter size groupings from every pistol you use.

I'd never use the G42 at 25 yds for real, or even 15 yards.  It's designed for up close and personal encounters.

What i'm getting at is it takes practice and a lot of analysis if you're not getting the results you need.  Maybe my experiences are different, but maybe someone else can find something useful from reading about them.

 :shaka:


Yeah, gotcha.  When I first got the 43x, I was mixed.  Between "this is pretty good" at times to "meh".  Having spending more time with them, I'm appreciating them more.  Especially for CCW for Hawaii.  I typically carried 19 and 17s, but def see the benefits of these smaller frames. 

I've shot the 42 and original 43 and can't say I was a fan.  Think mostly b/c the short grips and pinky off/overhang.  They were ok, and maybe I didn't give them a chance.  I will be shooting the 48 in matches soon, so will see how that goes. 

zippz

I never shot a LCP, but that thing makes my Glock 43 look huge.  Even the dainty Glock 42 is a fair bit larger than the LCP.  I can shoot the Glock 43 okay at 15 yards with good center mass hits and at 25 yards if I take my time and really concentrate.  It took me quite a bit of practice to get there.  For the LCP's size, weight, and relatively long/heavy trigger pull 7 yards  for center mass hits and 10 yards for slow fire is what you can expect with lots of practice.  Maybe you're expecting too much out of the gun.

Do 300 dryfire presses and shoot 300 rounds out of it and that should get you to adequate proficiency with it.

Center mass hits as in grouping inside of a letter size sheet of paper at 7 yards would be a good accomplishment for that gun.

« Last Edit: August 01, 2024, 08:51:32 PM by zippz »

drck1000

Witnessed someone shooting the LCP for the Hawaii CW qual.  They shot fine (passed), but their holster was crap.  Apparently tough to find holsters for that pistol.  It is quite tiny and capacity was quite low, believe 6+1.  I didn't shoot the gun, but the trigger pull seemed heavy and long.  I guess having pocket carry in mind. 



drck1000

Re: Subcompact (micro, slimline, etc) Pistols - Experiences & Recommendations
« Reply #32 on: October 01, 2024, 07:42:42 AM »
Been shooting the 48 MOS more lately, including in a local match.  Was using Shield mags (blocks to 10 of course) and will be going back to OEM mags, at least for now.  At least for now.  I did a bunch of research on the Shield mags prior to trying, and even with the Gen 3s, seems to be hit or miss.  Was willing to try for myself.  I wasn't getting that many malfunctions, but enough to at least take a pause.  I am thinking it might be a matter of springs and/or other things having to work in, but even then, not sure if I'll be going back.  I intend on shooting the 48 a lot more in matches over the next many months here and there.  I will eventually get back to trying/testing the Shield mags, but for now, they are on the bench. 

I've had the 43x for a while and was using OEM mags.  I had recently switched to the Shield mags with that gun and it functioned fine.  I did notice a slight hiccup going into battery when I was testing Gold Dots, but otherwise it functioned fine with both OEM (100%) and Shield mags.  That's one of the guns on my HPD CCW, so will have to be sure before going with Shield mags on that gun moving forward. 

changemyoil66

Re: Subcompact (micro, slimline, etc) Pistols - Experiences & Recommendations
« Reply #33 on: October 01, 2024, 09:41:32 AM »
Been shooting the 48 MOS more lately, including in a local match.  Was using Shield mags (blocks to 10 of course) and will be going back to OEM mags, at least for now.  At least for now.  I did a bunch of research on the Shield mags prior to trying, and even with the Gen 3s, seems to be hit or miss.  Was willing to try for myself.  I wasn't getting that many malfunctions, but enough to at least take a pause.  I am thinking it might be a matter of springs and/or other things having to work in, but even then, not sure if I'll be going back.  I intend on shooting the 48 a lot more in matches over the next many months here and there.  I will eventually get back to trying/testing the Shield mags, but for now, they are on the bench. 

I've had the 43x for a while and was using OEM mags.  I had recently switched to the Shield mags with that gun and it functioned fine.  I did notice a slight hiccup going into battery when I was testing Gold Dots, but otherwise it functioned fine with both OEM (100%) and Shield mags.  That's one of the guns on my HPD CCW, so will have to be sure before going with Shield mags on that gun moving forward.

Are those mags in stock all the time?  WHen I looked into getting a G43 (6rd gun), the 10rd Shield mags were often out of stock. This was why it fell off my CCW list. Plus they make a G43X.

drck1000

Re: Subcompact (micro, slimline, etc) Pistols - Experiences & Recommendations
« Reply #34 on: October 01, 2024, 12:21:58 PM »
Are those mags in stock all the time?  WHen I looked into getting a G43 (6rd gun), the 10rd Shield mags were often out of stock. This was why it fell off my CCW list. Plus they make a G43X.
I dunno about in stock all the time, but I was able to get them without much waiting.  I bought what I have in a few different "batches", but I think only once was where they were out of stock when I was looking.  After I got my first (2) to start with, I picked more up when they were back in stock. 

I do like/appreciate the (15) round capacity/capability, but not with the issues I've been hearing about and experiencing personally.  I have seen a bunch of videos claiming "no issues", but not sure how reliable those reports are, and say if folks say shot a box of (50) and called it guud enuff. 

drck1000

Re: Subcompact (micro, slimline, etc) Pistols - Experiences & Recommendations
« Reply #35 on: December 24, 2024, 09:48:15 AM »
Been shooting my 48 variant with a ported barrel and slide a lot more lately in range and general training sessions.  One item of note is be careful of magwells that have a wedge attachment method.  For me, they appear to induce malfunctions with loading, where rounds get stuck on the feedramp.  Tried various action springs, since my ported setup is aftermarket slide and barrel.  Finally narrowed it down to the magwell.  I primarily use the magwell for the grip "enhancement" aspect, vice reloading.  I can grip the 43x/48 frame ok without, but a shooting buddy mentioned how he likes the magwell for the grip aspect, so I decided to give it a try.  Since this 48 slide is ported, I'd be in USPSA Open class anyways, but not a driving factor. 

Did more research and seems issues with magwells with the 43x/48 is pretty common. Many see issues with mags no dropping free in addition to what I've experienced.  Where the wedge attachment, or other means, can cause the frame to flex slightly.  I did notice it with SLR and Empire Katana magwells.  You/one can get the pressures "just right", but I've then noticed the plug moves, which I suspect then prevents the mags from seating properly, or otherwise places pressures on the mag that causes issues. 

I have one magwell that doesn't have the wedge attachment, so will be testing that more.  If I experience issues, I may give up on magwells.  My 43x EDC currently doesn't have a magwell.  I've tested the 48 with magwell and it doesn't drastically affect printing.  At least with darker colored shirts, which I don't really wear lighter color shirts when carrying anyways.

macsak

Re: Subcompact (micro, slimline, etc) Pistols - Experiences & Recommendations
« Reply #36 on: December 24, 2024, 10:12:48 AM »
are

Been shooting my 48 variant with a ported barrel and slide a lot more lately in range and general training sessions.  One item of note is be careful of magwells that have a wedge attachment method.  For me, they appear to induce malfunctions with loading, where rounds get stuck on the feedramp.  Tried various action springs, since my ported setup is aftermarket slide and barrel.  Finally narrowed it down to the magwell.  I primarily use the magwell for the grip "enhancement" aspect, vice reloading.  I can grip the 43x/48 frame ok without, but a shooting buddy mentioned how he likes the magwell for the grip aspect, so I decided to give it a try.  Since this 48 slide is ported, I'd be in USPSA Open class anyways, but not a driving factor. 

Did more research and seems issues with magwells with the 43x/48 is pretty common. Many see issues with mags no dropping free in addition to what I've experienced.  Where the wedge attachment, or other means, can cause the frame to flex slightly.  I did notice it with SLR and Empire Katana magwells.  You/one can get the pressures "just right", but I've then noticed the plug moves, which I suspect then prevents the mags from seating properly, or otherwise places pressures on the mag that causes issues. 

I have one magwell that doesn't have the wedge attachment, so will be testing that more.  If I experience issues, I may give up on magwells.  My 43x EDC currently doesn't have a magwell.  I've tested the 48 with magwell and it doesn't drastically affect printing.  At least with darker colored shirts, which I don't really wear lighter color shirts when carrying anyways.

drck1000

Re: Subcompact (micro, slimline, etc) Pistols - Experiences & Recommendations
« Reply #37 on: December 24, 2024, 10:14:58 AM »
are
???

*feeding

In before more “corrections”

macsak

Re: Subcompact (micro, slimline, etc) Pistols - Experiences & Recommendations
« Reply #38 on: December 24, 2024, 10:25:16 AM »
focus

"issues with magwells with the 43x/48 is pretty common."

???

*feeding

In before more “corrections”

changemyoil66

Re: Subcompact (micro, slimline, etc) Pistols - Experiences & Recommendations
« Reply #39 on: December 24, 2024, 10:25:29 AM »
Been shooting my 48 variant with a ported barrel and slide a lot more lately in range and general training sessions.  One item of note is be careful of magwells that have a wedge attachment method.  For me, they appear to induce malfunctions with loading, where rounds get stuck on the feedramp.  Tried various action springs, since my ported setup is aftermarket slide and barrel.  Finally narrowed it down to the magwell.  I primarily use the magwell for the grip "enhancement" aspect, vice reloading.  I can grip the 43x/48 frame ok without, but a shooting buddy mentioned how he likes the magwell for the grip aspect, so I decided to give it a try.  Since this 48 slide is ported, I'd be in USPSA Open class anyways, but not a driving factor. 

Did more research and seems issues with magwells with the 43x/48 is pretty common. Many see issues with mags no dropping free in addition to what I've experienced.  Where the wedge attachment, or other means, can cause the frame to flex slightly.  I did notice it with SLR and Empire Katana magwells.  You/one can get the pressures "just right", but I've then noticed the plug moves, which I suspect then prevents the mags from seating properly, or otherwise places pressures on the mag that causes issues. 

I have one magwell that doesn't have the wedge attachment, so will be testing that more.  If I experience issues, I may give up on magwells.  My 43x EDC currently doesn't have a magwell.  I've tested the 48 with magwell and it doesn't drastically affect printing.  At least with darker colored shirts, which I don't really wear lighter color shirts when carrying anyways.

Would you carry the G48?  I ask cause with a ported barrel, one has to be aware of the gasses coming out. So if on your back and the handgun is close to you in an awkward position, you can harm yourself.  Or if your hand is holding on to your slide, etc...