Nuts.
Can’t really wrap my head around this one.
Lahaina burns…

No Focus.   ( But I think it’s in the right place even though I might be wrong.  )

https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=50812.0

This Maui tragedy is both terrible and horrific but the people need to start concentrating on the bright side of things. This is my opinion and it not intended to offend anyone, but the one positive thing to come out of this devastation is at least former Mayor Billy Kenoi can now proceed to start rolling around in his grave knowing he is no longer considered the most corrupt Mayor to be caught in the history of Hawaii.

more distressing news about the disaster

Thanks Aquaman!
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2023/09/01/crisis-top-crisis-maui-residents-struggle-stay-afloat-tourism-flouders/

HONOLULU (HawaiiNewsNow) - Following mixed messages about tourism to Maui, the local economy is foundering — with layoffs mounting and businesses struggling to stay open.

Proof of just how bad things are is visible as soon before you even land at Kahului Airport: A sea of rental cars is visible from the air in a grassy field on airport property.

That field, officials say, is usually empty.
Special Section: Maui Wildfires

Maui wedding photographer Tara Lee Murphy was in Lahaina on Aug. 8, and snapped photos of a happy couple on Front Street just hours before flames tore through the town.

“It wasn’t until I got home and then I started seeing everything unfolding and then it’s just been unfolding ever since,” she said.

Murphy, like so many other small businesses owners, are now struggling to remain afloat with few visitors coming to Maui — and the short- and mid-term forecast bleak.

Glenn Beck on the Lahaina fire.
No surprise people do not trust the FBI


 

This scares me because it makes me realize I don't know what I would do if fire was ripping through where I live. The town looks like it was about 6 blocks away from the ocean in most places and still 115+ died.
The ocean is at least a mile from my hours, I don't have any rivers nearby, I don't know where I would go.

I was wondering if a manhole into the sewer would be safe. Would the fire take all the oxygen?
Could go to a school a half mile away but not sure how safe that would be. Maybe an open park with no trees? Still could face issues with too much smoke...
At first I thought about the freeway or a parking lot but if one car catches fire it will be dominos and a death trap.

This scares me because it makes me realize I don't know what I would do if fire was ripping through where I live. The town looks like it was about 6 blocks away from the ocean in most places and still 115+ died.
The ocean is at least a mile from my hours, I don't have any rivers nearby, I don't know where I would go.

I was wondering if a manhole into the sewer would be safe. Would the fire take all the oxygen?
Could go to a school a half mile away but not sure how safe that would be. Maybe an open park with no trees? Still could face issues with too much smoke...
At first I thought about the freeway or a parking lot but if one car catches fire it will be dominos and a death trap.

Bodies of water are not the best primary escape plan.

There are people still missing.  How many tried to escape the fire by jumping in the ocean, drowned, and were carried out to sea?

Smoke inhalation, time treading water for the duration of the fire near the shore, and other considerations make me believe some people went in the water thinking it was a natural choice in a fire.  That's when the water/ocean became the threat.

Question for those in the know.  Because I don't know honestly.

There was a large body of water available during the Lahaina fires that didn't need the States permission.  It was the ocean.  Right there.  Free water.  Albeit salt water but I'm sure it puts fires out just the same?

Our fire fighting technologies and strategies cannot use the natural resource of the ocean?

Sure, the nature of salt in the water would probably wreak havoc on the pumps and equipment but in situations like what happened in Lahaina who gives a shit.

Question for those in the know.  Because I don't know honestly.

There was a large body of water available during the Lahaina fires that didn't need the States permission.  It was the ocean.  Right there.  Free water.  Albeit salt water but I'm sure it puts fires out just the same?

Our fire fighting technologies and strategies cannot use the natural resource of the ocean?

Sure, the nature of salt in the water would probably wreak havoc on the pumps and equipment but in situations like what happened in Lahaina who gives a shit.

If they had been using drop planes and choppers, they could have scooped up ocean water.  With the high winds, I believe I read that wasn't an option.

They aren't going to contaminate public water systems with ocean water.  It would damage the pipes and treatment facilities on top of making the water in your faucets undrinkable (nonpotable).

If the fire departments had tanker trucks to haul the ocean water to the fire location, they would need a place to load the trucks, have to drive to the fire, then go back and forth to refill.  Probably requires several trucks to keep up with the lag time between filling and emptying.

My question would be if the ocean water is going to cause equipment problems (pumps, hoses, etc.) and environmental concerns (spreading salt and all the other contaminants from the ocean onto the soil).  It used to be a common tactic to get rid of farmers from land you want to salt their fields so nothing would grow.

If ocean water was such a readily and unending supply of water, there wouldn't have been a drought to begin with.

If they had been using drop planes and choppers, they could have scooped up ocean water.  With the high winds, I believe i read that wasn't an option.

They aren't going to contaminate public water systems with ocean water.  It would damage the pipes and treatment facilities on top of making the water in your faucets undrinkable (nonpotable).

If the fire departments had tanker trucks to haul the ocean water to the fire location, they would need a place to load the trucks, have to drive to the fire, then go back and forth to refill.  Probably requires several trucks to keep up with the lag time between filling and emptying.

My question would be if the ocean water is going to cause equipment problems (pumps, hoses, etc.) and environmental concerns (spreading salt and all the other contaminants from the ocean onto the soil).  It used to be a common tactic to get rid of farmers from land you want to salt their fields so nothing would grow.

If ocean water was such a readily and unending supply of water, there wouldn't have been a drought to begin with.

I totally forgot about the high winds.  I'm a doofus.

Damn, easy for me to armchair quarterback for solutions after the fact.  But the logistics of hoses, pumps, and more hoses to harness the ocean water in cases of emergencies like this is a pipedream, especially when the fire was advancing at such a fast rate.  Easier said than done.

I guess I'm so upset as to what happened.  I'm sure everyone else is too.

I totally forgot about the high winds.  I'm a doofus.

Damn, easy for me to armchair quarterback for solutions after the fact.  But the logistics of hoses, pumps, and more hoses to harness the ocean water in cases of emergencies like this is a pipedream, especially when the fire was advancing at such a fast rate.  Easier said than done.

I guess I'm so upset as to what happened.  I'm sure everyone else is too.

Also dont 4get that maui doesnt have the resources big cities do.

Their airport is a shithole. I mean, so is oahus compared to other main cities.

Maui has 3 baggage claims and only 2 were working when i went last year. Both monitors were also broken, so no one knew which claim had their bags. The crew didnt know either.

Their police processing ccws have much less bodies as well.  So their fire dept prob is the same.

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Bodies of water are not the best primary escape plan.

There are people still missing.  How many tried to escape the fire by jumping in the ocean, drowned, and were carried out to sea?

Smoke inhalation, time treading water for the duration of the fire near the shore, and other considerations make me believe some people went in the water thinking it was a natural choice in a fire.  That's when the water/ocean became the threat.

That is a good consideration, especially in cold water areas and for people who aren't strong swimmers.
I just can't think of a better alternative.

That is a good consideration, especially in cold water areas and for people who aren't strong swimmers.
I just can't think of a better alternative.

No matter how good of a swimmer you are, if you jump in the ocean under those circumstances, take some type of floatation device. A foam cooler, even an empty gallon jug with a cap will help you float, although I would take at least two.  Threading water gets tiring fast.

I haven't looked into it yet, but how deep did they have to go to be safer from the fire/smoke?  Like when I go to Magic Island, you're in standing water pretty far from the shore.  Unless they were at a pier where there is no ability to stand.

I took a survival type class and they mentioned if 1 fell off a ship (Navy),  1 can "dead float" and lift your head to take breaths as needed which is better than back floating in more choppy seas.  But even this method was warned that it still is tiring. 

Ultimately, what I learned from this tragedy, is if you know you are going in the right direction to escape a fire and cops tell you to turn around, don’t listen.

What do you expect if you keep voting for demorats.

After Hurricane Sandy, New York residents received assistance from FEMA, HUD, Red Cross, etc.

Also, the President and Congress can, and has, increase the amount of money FEMA can use to assist victims ... if they want to.

January 6, 2013

President Barack Obama, signs H.R. 41
H.R. 41 increases the Federal Emergency Management Agency's borrowing
authority, allowing FEMA to continue paying flood insurance claims from Hurricane
Sandy.

https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/issues/hurricane/sandy