Even trained leos and military can't guarantee the safety of you loved ones in an armed conflict.

There are no guarantees.  I just want to make sure I have whatever I need to gain the advantage in a conflict.  Being unarmed is not my idea of being on an even playing field in any violent attack.

What if that $20 deadbolt and motion sensor light would have stop the intruder from even stepping in your home. I'm not trying to say you don't have the right to protect yourself and family with a firearm but use some common sense here. If your confident in you skills with a firearm and are willing to take a shot that could hit a loved one go ahead. I've got years of military training and thousands of rounds down range and I wouldn't take that chance. Its not as easy as in the movies.

I'm former military.  I'm an expert marksman, albeit nobody is perfect.  I have a number of deterrents around my property, and I'm not in a habit of posting my anti-theft, anti-trespassing measures on public forums!   

Since you don't know me or what measures I have in place, your words are only shots in the dark.  I'm cautious to the point of appearing paranoid.  However, my caution is not from an irrational fear.  It is from a deep belief that there is no one in this world who cares as much about your life as YOU.  If you delegate your safety and the safety of those you protect to others, then you are being irresponsible.  I am committed to protecting my life and the lives of my loved ones.  Yes, I do the common sense preparations around the house.  While many of my neighbors have been burglarized multiple times each, my home has never been broken into,  There was one attempt, but my measures prevented it.

So, you can continue preaching to the choir, but as for me, I'm making my own choices.  You have the right to do the same.

As for shooting someone unintentionally ... that's an anti-gunner argument!  "You are more likely to shoot a family member than a criminal."  "What if you shoot through a wall and hit a family member?"  What if your wife hears you sneaking home late and thinks you're a burglar?"  Statistically, that happens very rarely -- statistically it's insignificant. 

I don't answer the door with a gun in my hand.  However, you don't come in my yard uninvited, either.  That's one reason for the Audio/Video intercom doorbell by the front gate. 

As for shooting someone unintentionally ... that's an anti-gunner argument!  "You are more likely to shoot a family member than a criminal."  "What if you shoot through a wall and hit a family member?"  What if your wife hears you sneaking home late and thinks you're a burglar?"  Statistically, that happens very rarely -- statistically it's insignificant. 

Bro, peace!  I'm not trying to get in to a pissing contest about what I did in the army or what kind of home security I have vs what you got. Obiviously your squared away and good to go but there are definatly more undertrained and uneducated people who own firearms that dream of the what ifs so they can pull their gun out. These are the same people who the antigunners have a field day with when something that involves a gun hits the news. The point I'm trying to make is responsible firearms owners need to stress that armed conflict should only be used in the most dire of situations. You got me wrong. I'm all for self defense with a firearm, under the right circumstances. A good number who say their guns are for self defense don't even go target shooting regularly let alone have decent locks in their homes. Just having a gun is not the end all solution.

BTW. What were last local headlines involving guns? Man shoots son through the ceiling while cleaning an ar. Lady hit by a bullet that was fired in the air. Innocent people who got shot by idiots without the training or know how. When was the last local headline about an intruder being shot by a home owner? Not so statistaclly insignificant after all. Just saying gun owners need to be responsible.

http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Home-Intruder-Shooting-200786881.html

http://q13fox.com/2013/04/05/maple-valley-homeowner-shots-and-kills-an-intruder/#axzz2QVYn6cfQ

http://poorrichardsnews.com/post/43466174522/virginia-man-protects-his-2-year-old-son-shoots-and

http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Gun-Control-Supporter-Embraced-by-Gun-Rights-Supporters-After-Pulling-Weapon-in-Self-Defense-202221521.html?fb_action_ids=4815960158478&fb_action_types=og.recommends&fb_ref=s%3DshowShareBarUI%3Ap%3Dfacebook-like&fb_source=aggregation&fb_aggregation_id=288381481237582

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/02/20/another-reason-why-its-a-bad-idea-to-break-into-a-texas-home-armed-elderly-man-kills-home-intruder/

When the criminals discover it's more rewarding and safer to get a legit job, then crime rates will plummet!

I wasn't trying to get into a pissing contest either.  You're projecting alot of stereotypes about the "average American gun owner."  Most are just like you and me.  There are active and inactive military, law enforcement, security guards, and so forth.  Most of us have been instructed in judicious use of deadly force ... knowing when it's appropriate and when to avoid it. 

From my experience, when a person that's been properly trained carries a concealed weapon (maybe a bit off topic), he/she becomes a different person.  They avoid conflicts, and they try to leave rather than be involved in anything close to a fight.  They know just having that weapon on them might create suspicion and negative opinions by Law Enforcement if called to intervene.  And if the weapon is discharged, that's a can of worms nobody wants to have to deal with ... with or without casualties.

Too many anti-gunners project their own lack of training and fear of shooting the wrong person onto others.  That's not logical, nor is it supported by any stats or studies.

I like to give people the benefit of the doubt and hope they don't prove me wrong.  It's the same respect I expect from law enforcement and law makers.  Don't treat me like you would the "lowest common denominator" in society.

Hey man I agree with you for preparing for the worst case but getting a good deadbolt and motion sensored light all are parts of preparing for the worst. Anyone who says different has got their priorities mixed up. If you got that all covered. How many rounds do you have down range in your hd firearm? How much training have you had? Do you have a weaponlight? How accessible is your firearm? If you got more 10k+ down range, cqb training etc good on you. Chances are you don't have that background. Even trained leos and military can't guarantee the safety of you loved ones in an armed conflict.

Since you like to play what if. What if that $20 deadbolt and motion sensor light would have stop the intruder from even stepping in your home. I'm not trying to say you don't have the right to protect yourself and family with a firearm but use some common sense here. If your confident in you skills with a firearm and are willing to take a shot that could hit a loved one go ahead. I've got years of military training and thousands of rounds down range and I wouldn't take that chance. Its not as easy as in the movies.

I think we are straying away from the subject which is how to deal with an intruder.  NOT what preventive measures are used to insure your home/residence is safe.  Here's a thread I had awhile back in regards to home security:
http://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=4466.msg45085#msg45085
Reading your post kinda confuses me.  Are you saying with your military training you "wouldn't take that chance" to defend yourself and family?  I really doubt that.  What I've gathered from what you wrote is that you've accessed that only a very small percentage of people have enough training to use a firearm to deal with a violent intruder.  It's safe to say that there are many variables for any given situation.  It helps having/sharing/discussing/practicing your own plan, knowing what is your shooting lanes in your home is all important.  Vice the kinda winging it when something happens (which I'm guessing that you are assuming that's most people are doing). 

Question, where are you getting your statistics from?
"A good number who say their guns are for self defense don't even go target shooting regularly let alone have decent locks in their homes."
"It seems like everyone likes to think in worst case scenarios, two 6'5", +300lb'ers raping your wife and kids, what would you do situations."
These sound like assumptions. 
I can tell you from personal experience that there are a lot of stories that DO NOT make the news that would surprise you that do involve guns.
I'm local born and raised/active duty, and worked security right outside of Schofield (Waikamilo) and in Waikiki and I've seen some shit.  Short story:  Working security for ONLY two months I witnessed two different occasions where a drunk yoked guy was pissed at a neighbor and punched the entry door in.  Both doors had a dead bolt/or chain.  Both times the fricken hindges came off with the door.  Shit happens.  Don't let the lack of local headlines fool you.

imku, your missing my point. I would not take a shot that could possible hurt a loved on ie a hostage shot/close proximity... Im simply not that good and even if I was I wouldn't take that chance. I would however not hesitate if all criteria for a just shoot existed.

a large number of hd gun owners have not shot their guns enough to be proficient on them. that's just fact. go to the range. more times than not that's true. statistics are not needed to prove that point. you can't just shoot one box of ammo once a month and call your self trained. besides most people can't afford that let alone find the ammo.

worst case scenario. read the posts before. a lot of them go straight to the bad guy doing bad things to family members. I was just going off that. I'm sure those situation happen all the time regardless of what kind of locks people have. the spirit of my post is that people jump to the extreme and plan for that even before doing the more prudent things like investing in locks, lights etc. if you live in a bad neigborhood maybe plan on moving to a better one. all I'm trying to say is you should try to make it as hard as posibble for these things to happen to you. if it does happen on top of all of that have enough trigger time, training behind your firearm so that when you do use it you can use it safely, effectively and under the right circumstances
 
sounds easier than reality but reading the posts here on the forums, a lot of people have a shoot first  mentality

"It seems like everyone likes to think in worst case scenarios, two 6'5", +300lb'ers raping your wife and kids, what would you do situations."

I can tell you what I've seen first hand.

I know that there are people walking around that are predators.

It has nothing to do with height and weight.

Their whole existence is hurting and taking from anyone weaker than them.

The person that has the audacity to break into your home knowing that you're home has already decided to "handle" any confrontation.

This type of person does not think like me and you.

The "predator" mindset is just that.

Like a lion who's sole purpose is to hunt and kill anything weaker than itself when it's hungry, a predator will not hesitate to kill you or anyone else who gets in their way.

Just for clarification, KK you quoted me quoting Hunter1007.

Hunter1007, I did not see where you stated that your point was that you would not take a shot in a hostage/close proximity besides your last post.  That changes to a whole different situation I think.  With that said we can spend all type of time with this "How to deal with an intruder thread" and debate different situations that very well may or may not justify the needs of deadly force or the ability/oppertunity to use deadly force.  Situational awareness is imperative and will/should dictate the appropriate response whether it be the usage of deadly force or not. 
Majority of your points that you are making IMO is very similar to the rhetoric of anti-gun activists or just anti-gun minded people (I've had these types of discussions in the past) and you really are projecting alot of stereotypes of what YOUR idea of the "average gun owner" is which is a type of "elitist" view of gun ownership IMO.  Your arguements seems to be based on your own opinions/assumptions, whether it's accurate... we can agree to disagree I guess  .  I'm all on board for finding everything possible to PREVENT any intruder from entering my home, but what is to be done when those preventive measures didn't stop them?  Early in this thread, there was the suggestion of  Run, Hide, Fight theory.  This is the base of what my own "plan" includes along with the notification to HPD.

Disclaimer - I'm just having a friendly discussion, I hope you don't feel like any of this is anything personal.

As for shooting someone unintentionally ... that's an anti-gunner argument!  "You are more likely to shoot a family member than a criminal."  "What if you shoot through a wall and hit a family member?"  What if your wife hears you sneaking home late and thinks you're a burglar?"  Statistically, that happens very rarely -- statistically it's insignificant. 

Hunter1007, ...
Majority of your points that you are making IMO is very similar to the rhetoric of anti-gun activists or just anti-gun minded people (I've had these types of discussions in the past) and you really are projecting alot of stereotypes of what YOUR idea of the "average gun owner" is which is a type of "elitist" view of gun ownership IMO.  Your arguements seems to be based on your own opinions/assumptions, whether it's accurate... we can agree to disagree I guess  .  I'm all on board for finding everything possible to PREVENT any intruder from entering my home, but what is to be done when those preventive measures didn't stop them?  Early in this thread, there was the suggestion of  Run, Hide, Fight theory.  This is the base of what my own "plan" includes along with the notification to HPD.

That's my impression of Hunter1007's arguments as well!

That's my impression of Hunter1007's arguments as well!

Man I went from chimeing in on a discussion wanting to add some insight to the whole package of home defense to being an anti gunner arguing not to have a gun I didn't see that coming. Not once did I say guns should be taken out of the equation. I do however believe in and practice much of what you have mentioned about the total package of home defense not just the gun side. I believe in eliminating as much possibilities that an intruder from picking my house using methods stated before by others and several others not mentioned. So what exactly make me an anti-gunner or for that matter an elitist?

I don't see my views as arguments against guns. More like prudent and responsible actions of a lawful gun owner based on my personal experiences. Maybe I should have started out with that, my experiences. Yes these are my opinions and generalizations based on my experiences. How accurate in terms of actual statistics IDK. But in many cases (in my experience again) these stereotypes are actually realities. ie people at the range sweeping themselves and others on the line while charging the slide on a loaded pistol, shooting at your target instead of theirs or missing completely by yards. I can go on. If they do that in practice, it would only be worse in a high stress situation where its life and death. It is my opinion that there are more of these gun owners out there. Not saying they shouldn't own guns just saying it is their responsibilities to learn, get trained and practice. Rule of thumb, If you don't know who uncle with the puka shirt is at the range, you not shooting enough!

Main reason I not playing the "quote your stats" game is that mentality is purely argumentative along with using bold and red text and !!!.. I'm not here troll. Just sharing. Like ImKu said agree to disagree. Supporters of 2A rights come in varying degrees. We are just varying degrees on the same side. Peace out!

Dang this thread got intense!!
 

Man I went from chimeing in on a discussion wanting to add some insight to the whole package of home defense to being an anti gunner arguing not to have a gun I didn't see that coming. Not once did I say guns should be taken out of the equation. I do however believe in and practice much of what you have mentioned about the total package of home defense not just the gun side. I believe in eliminating as much possibilities that an intruder from picking my house using methods stated before by others and several others not mentioned. So what exactly make me an anti-gunner or for that matter an elitist?

I was hoping that you wouldn't take it the wrong way, but have an outside view of what others actually MAY think you are trying to express in your posts.  I believe that you are pro 2A.  I have not said that you are in fact anti-gun or an elitist, but I instead stated that your argument points that you were making in your posts were. 

"a large number of hd gun owners have not shot their guns enough to be proficient on them" 
"there are definatly more undertrained and uneducated people who own firearms that dream of the what ifs so they can pull their gun out"
"A good number who say their guns are for self defense don't even go target shooting regularly let alone have decent locks in their homes."
"a lot of people have a shoot first  mentality"

Whether or not your statements are right/wrong or even accurate, these are exactly along the same lines of what I am hear amongst people that have a anti-gun mentality.  I'm just pointing it out.  Sorry to break it to you, but it's the truth... I've had these arguments with a few.  I don't consider you a troll.  You hammer home the importance of training and home security.  I just think that due our extremely different views we have alot to disagree about.
 

I will whip out my Tactical Balls.
http://www.amazon.com/Brite-Strike-RID-3-Tactical-3-Pack/product-reviews/B002SJ6E2E/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1

here is a copy of my review
"Since I became an honorary member of the Punxatawney swat team a year ago, I have desperately needed a set of tactical balls. The other members of my team all had balls so I thought I could get by without them. One the few occasions when I took point and really needed a set of balls, I would use my partners. He doesn't mind letting me hold onto them. I eventually bought my own and never looked back.
The tactical balls are extremely effective. When my men and I are breaching a stronghold, we all simply whip out our balls and throw them all around. This garners a great deal of attention from the bad-guys and allows us to quickly mount our adversaries.
The one drawback of the tactical balls is their pouch. The just don't ride evenly; one always seems to droop in the pouch lower than the others. However, there are quite a few places into which the balls fit snuggly. I like to keep mine with my flashlight. My partner even borrowed my balls once and cleared an entire floor of an apartment building with them in his mouth. (HIs is quite good at spitting and planned to deploy them in this manner). "

I will whip out my Tactical Balls.
http://www.amazon.com/Brite-Strike-RID-3-Tactical-3-Pack/product-reviews/B002SJ6E2E/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1

here is a copy of my review
"Since I became an honorary member of the Punxatawney swat team a year ago, I have desperately needed a set of tactical balls. The other members of my team all had balls so I thought I could get by without them. One the few occasions when I took point and really needed a set of balls, I would use my partners. He doesn't mind letting me hold onto them. I eventually bought my own and never looked back.
The tactical balls are extremely effective. When my men and I are breaching a stronghold, we all simply whip out our balls and throw them all around. This garners a great deal of attention from the bad-guys and allows us to quickly mount our adversaries.
The one drawback of the tactical balls is their pouch. The just don't ride evenly; one always seems to droop in the pouch lower than the others. However, there are quite a few places into which the balls fit snuggly. I like to keep mine with my flashlight. My partner even borrowed my balls once and cleared an entire floor of an apartment building with them in his mouth. (HIs is quite good at spitting and planned to deploy them in this manner). "

    Thanks.  Good way to start a hump day.

I had a full post for this... but I deleted it.

It makes me very worried that I, or my wife could be tried and found guilty of protecting our home and our two babies from an intruder with awful intentions that illegally broke into our home, our sanctity...

I say do what you have a right to do... just make sure it looks good.
Ie: dont shoot him in the back, and make sure you leave him unable to tell the nice understanding cops
About how the mean old homeowner refused to be a good little sheep and cower in the closet threating to to call the police. Instead, he told him he couldn't have his stuff to pawn to pay for his next meth binge and then mercilessly shot him in the guts with a mini 14...



 
If he runs, im not gonna shoot him in the back,  he'll be given a sporting chance to run. but if he turns and faces me he's getting serviced.
I will not run and hide in my own home, screw that. This is MY space, my castle and no one (except my wife  ) dictates what I do in my home.
Im sick of good law abiding citizens being told that they have to allow criminal scum to victimize them, im sick of the fact that or so called civilized society says that violence is the last resort. It only emboldens these animals, they know there are no consequences of note to discourage them from victimizing good people, they know that it takes 20 minutes for the police to show up  But hey, this is the way we seem to want it... and I cant change what goes on in public, as much as I would like to.
However, this kinder gentler bullshit stops at my front door.

As for the measured response to how dire an attack is before you resort to violence...
One must always infer that when a man raises his hand against you or brandishes a weapon that he intends to try and kill you. So any attack could be construed as a dire threat.
Anything less could cost you your life

Well said Snuffy, well said.

 

Um...I wasn't throwing grenades or shooting AT-4's at people on a daily/weekly/monthly/yearly basis,

Anyway...back to the action guys! 

You damn rocket noob   
  

















Just yanking yer' chain BTW

 

I have run and praticed this many times in my apartment. I have also done massive research on you tube for realistic training videos of home defense. Also personal defense magazines are out there with great advise such as
 gunsmagazine.com/home-self-defense.   




"I was born with an AR15 in my hand, from this gun will be my last stand. Knowing that I lived and died free. No regrets will be had by me".