I still fail to understand how people can justify condemning Israel for retaliating against the atrocities that Hamas committed on Oct. 7th.

Propaganda and groupthink are powerful especially when people want to believe in something.  I see it firsthand at my workplace where a conman is getting support from the majority of workers despite very obvious problems.
People on both sides seem to assume the Gaza Health ministries fraudulent death numbers are true

And I still fail to understand how the Palestinian people and the Palestinian Authority allow Hamas to represent them as the head of government.

more so from the Palestinians.  They are the descendants of people that were anti-israel and fled Israel in 1948 thinking the Arab armies would obliterate the Jews and they'd return home shortly.  That's 3 or 4 generations of people that grew up to hate Jews from birth and that's all they know.


I also wish Israel would stop their airstrikes and concentrate on the ground operations.  This would reduce collateral damage.  I know urban house to house combat is ugly business, but it is what it is.  Seems like Israel only wants to bomb and use ground forces to clean up the rubble and mess.  Sift through the dead bodies and report if any terrorists were in there, mixed with civilians.


Hamas is making it sound worse than it is.  The big deep craters and mass destruction is the bombs hitting ammo depot and tunnels causing the ground to collapse and more buildings damaged, making it look worse.

But as we saw in the battle of Fellujah, urban combat is very slow and casualties rack up fast.  And Fellujah is relatively simple compared to Gaza which is much more difficult due to

Densely packed large buildings
Tunnels
Much larger force (up to 40,000 combatants)
More hostile civilian population

The battle for Gaza is considerably more difficult than you think without the Israeli pounding.

What I find absent from both sides is the demand for Hamas to unconditionally surrender.  That would end the war immediately.  Palestinian Authority will probably take over and you'll have peace and potential for a 2 state solution. 

I still fail to understand how people can justify condemning Israel for retaliating against the atrocities that Hamas committed on Oct. 7th.

And I still fail to understand how the Palestinian people and the Palestinian Authority allow Hamas to represent them as the head of government.

Hamas is a terror organization. 

I also wish Israel would stop their airstrikes and concentrate on the ground operations.  This would reduce collateral damage.  I know urban house to house combat is ugly business, but it is what it is.  Seems like Israel only wants to bomb and use ground forces to clean up the rubble and mess.  Sift through the dead bodies and report if any terrorists were in there, mixed with civilians.

That's not going to bode well on the propaganda front.  I thought Israel was going to break down territories into sections, cordon them off and one by one, weed out the terrorists.  Then move on to the next one, all the while evacuating civilians into safer areas along the way.

Slower, safer, less collateral damage, and improved propaganda outlook.

They said it was going to take a long time.  Right now they just look like they want to destroy the whole Gaza Strip into smithereens.

WW3 material for sure if this keeps up.

My opinion of course.

In conventional warfare, air strikes is common and collateral damage is minimal as purposely targeting civilians is against the Geneva Conventions (war crimes).  But Hamas is using civilians as cover, so this isn't a conventional war.  Sending in ground troops always has a risk and I assume IDF wants to minimize the risk. Esp if Hamas plans on going aloha snackbar and blows up a building with IDF troops inside during a raid.

Mike glover mentioned Nat Geo or Vice did a special years ago on Hamas and that they have underground bunkers beneth the hospital.

It sucks for the civilians as what can happen is they try to leave the building, but are held there by Hamas.

Thanks for the responses to my questions.

But this question still remains:

If Hamas is using civilians as human shields (which I believe) then why is Israel still using air strikes?  Like I mentioned, if a target is identified as an enemy position, if Hamas is using civilians as shields, are airstrikes or ground attacks better to minimize collateral damage?  The way I see it, an airstrike is done in the comfort of behind the front lines.  A ground assault is dirty, violent, and ugly.  One will result in dead enemy and dead civilians.  The other will result in dead combatants on both sides and also dead civilians.  So which is more in line with the geneva convention?  I'm not saying combatant's lives are less precious, but they are combatants and know the consequences.

I believe this one aspect of the conflict is why the whole world is polarized as to what is happening over there.

Please don't misunderstand me.  I'm with Israel.  But I'm trying to understand the efforts (or lack of) avoidance of innocent civilian casualties.

But this question still remains:

If Hamas is using civilians as human shields (which I believe) then why is Israel still using air strikes? 

The civilians are assisting the military and leading to Israeli lives lost.  Therefore they are not protected innocent civilians anymore.

Those civilians have options.  They can rebel or leave those areas.

Something somewhat similar is ball bearing factories in Germany where Jews would either work at or be exterminated.  They were important military targets for the allies.

The civilians are assisting the military and leading to Israeli lives lost.  Therefore they are not protected innocent civilians anymore.

Those civilians have options.  They can rebel or leave those areas.

Don't forget Israel is doing something no combatant has ever done in war -- they alert the population days in advance to vacate areas where Israel will be attacking.

The civilians have the opportunity to find a safe area to wait out the attacks, but that also gives the terrorists a heads up.

Their attempt to "play nice" and limit civilian casualties may also be working against them as they try to take out Hamas.

*facepalm*

Those civilians have options.  They can rebel or leave those areas.

The civilians are assisting the military and leading to Israeli lives lost.  Therefore they are not protected innocent civilians anymore.

Those civilians have options.  They can rebel or leave those areas.

Something somewhat similar is ball bearing factories in Germany where Jews would either work at or be exterminated.  They were important military targets for the allies.

The workers were not the target -- the factories were.  Any dead workers are considered collateral damage.  That's something that is an unfortunate part of warfare.

It's more humane to try to limit civilian casualties, but that can't become the #1 objective if it prevents achieving military objectives.  The goal should be to end the fighting, not avoiding public criticism concerning those caught in the crossfire.

Seems like Israel is always the one being called out for civilian deaths, but Hamas is the one actually targetting citizens in Israel while placing Paletstine in danger.

Thanks for the responses to my questions.

But this question still remains:

If Hamas is using civilians as human shields (which I believe) then why is Israel still using air strikes?  Like I mentioned, if a target is identified as an enemy position, if Hamas is using civilians as shields, are airstrikes or ground attacks better to minimize collateral damage?  The way I see it, an airstrike is done in the comfort of behind the front lines.  A ground assault is dirty, violent, and ugly.  One will result in dead enemy and dead civilians.  The other will result in dead combatants on both sides and also dead civilians.  So which is more in line with the geneva convention?  I'm not saying combatant's lives are less precious, but they are combatants and know the consequences.

I believe this one aspect of the conflict is why the whole world is polarized as to what is happening over there.

Please don't misunderstand me.  I'm with Israel.  But I'm trying to understand the efforts (or lack of) avoidance of innocent civilian casualties.

This is an ethical issue as well.  If the pilots or operators know that human shields are being used, do they proceed?  Similar question was asked at an ethics class at Anapolis (military academy).  If a pilot is ordered to attack an enemy convoy, but then the convey raises their hands or white flags, does the pilot still launch the munitions?  Cause if they don't then everytime a jet gets near, the enemy will raise their hands or a white flag so they don't get destroyed. Then continue on once the jet leaves.  Thus making air to ground superiority useless.

Falsifying a surrender is also against the Geneva Conventons.

Seems like Israel is always the one being called out for civilian deaths, but Hamas is the one actually targetting citizens in Israel while placing Paletstine in danger.

^^^This. Palenstine should be working with the IDF to get Hamas out as well cause they endangered civilians.

Big picture for those getting lost in the details:

Peace can be profitable, but war is obscenely profitable which is why we've been following the 'managed conflict' doctrine since Vietnam. The reason they had to get rid of Trump was that he actually used effective deterrents and diplomacy and caused defense stock to plummet. The American people chose peace when they elected Donald Trump twice, but the election was stolen and we went back to managed conflicts. But the incompetent Biden regime is only good at stealing elections and can't manage their way out of a wet paper bag, so now the Middle East will burn out of control, energy will become super expensive, our empire will fall, and it will be a long time before anyone trusts us again.

Gutless Palestinian Authority.  Hamas came into power only because the Palestinian people, the PA, and Hamas all have one thing in common:

Hatred for Jews.

From the Rivers to the Sea.

It's time for the Palestinian Authority to confront and eliminate Hamas.

And re-think this "From the Rivers to the Sea" Bullcrap.

^^^This. Palenstine should be working with the IDF to get Hamas out as well cause they endangered civilians.

Sadly most/too many are probably too brainwashed to even consider that.

the IDF already showed a long video to the press
it was reported that some had to leave and others were crying...

Was the press given copies that they could show or were they just allowed to see the videos? I could see them showing the evidence so the reporters could see it for themselves without releasing it to the public.

So if Palestine/Hamas protestors didn't show up outside, then there would be no violence. I forgot who said this but it went something like "if Hamas laid their weapons down, all bloodshed would stop. But if Israel laid their weapons down, Jews would be killed".

They were outside of Roger Stones house too, just before the FBI raided him.

Israeli's finding and detonating rockets in Gaza.  They can be anywhere.

A little off-topic, but… Why can’t reporters wear their helmets straight?

do you have a study that proves that?

A little off-topic, but… Why can’t reporters wear their helmets straight?