Pro-Palestine protesters don't know why they are protesting (Read 19838 times)

macsak

Re: Pro-Palestine protesters don't know why they are protesting
« Reply #60 on: May 07, 2024, 07:22:17 AM »

macsak

Re: Pro-Palestine protesters don't know why they are protesting
« Reply #61 on: May 07, 2024, 07:45:46 AM »
wow
 

hvybarrels

Re: Pro-Palestine protesters don't know why they are protesting
« Reply #62 on: May 07, 2024, 10:04:35 AM »
It's okay to have some nutty opinions. It's okay to protest as long as you're not beating people up and burning the city down. If they want to express their first amendment rights then I support that even though I don't like their message.

My concern is that we are being trained by the media to attack the first amendment and support the police state.


Pretending to be offended does not make you a good person.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Pro-Palestine protesters don't know why they are protesting
« Reply #63 on: May 07, 2024, 10:19:57 AM »
It's okay to have some nutty opinions. It's okay to protest as long as you're not beating people up and burning the city down. If they want to express their first amendment rights then I support that even though I don't like their message.

My concern is that we are being trained by the media to attack the first amendment and support the police state.



That cartoon is a bit backwards, IMO.

Instead of celebrating the other side being arrested, most on the Right are angry instead.  Angry that the same treatment isn't afforded to both sides consistently.  Equal application of laws.

The Left picks and chooses a small number of the total cases to give Leftists a slap on the wrist, not because it was deserving, but to give the left examples to use when denying there are two legal standards being used.

If the Left gets away with trespassing, assault, theft and property damage, yet the Right gets arrested, that angers me.  Seeing one out of dozens of Leftist protests end as it should -- according to law and order standards -- demonstrates the government could have done the same in all past cases and chose not to.

Whoever drew that cartoon is obviously on the Left and has no real friends on the Right.

Using comments on Social Media isn't evidence of the general thoughts and opinions of groups as a whole.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

macsak

Re: Pro-Palestine protesters don't know why they are protesting
« Reply #64 on: May 07, 2024, 10:23:38 AM »
this guy is good

hvybarrels

Re: Pro-Palestine protesters don't know why they are protesting
« Reply #65 on: May 07, 2024, 11:09:04 AM »
That cartoon is a bit backwards, IMO.

Instead of celebrating the other side being arrested, most on the Right are angry instead.  Angry that the same treatment isn't afforded to both sides consistently.  Equal application of laws.

The Left picks and chooses a small number of the total cases to give Leftists a slap on the wrist, not because it was deserving, but to give the left examples to use when denying there are two legal standards being used.

If the Left gets away with trespassing, assault, theft and property damage, yet the Right gets arrested, that angers me.  Seeing one out of dozens of Leftist protests end as it should -- according to law and order standards -- demonstrates the government could have done the same in all past cases and chose not to.

Whoever drew that cartoon is obviously on the Left and has no real friends on the Right.

Using comments on Social Media isn't evidence of the general thoughts and opinions of groups as a whole.


You're thinking in absolutes. That's how they slip in the mind poison. BLM Antifa protests were pro-establishment which is why they were allowed to persist. The BDS movement is anti establishment, but they just don't happen to believe in the same things you do.
Pretending to be offended does not make you a good person.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Pro-Palestine protesters don't know why they are protesting
« Reply #66 on: May 07, 2024, 11:13:37 AM »

You're thinking in absolutes. That's how they slip in the mind poison.

Absolute:  n.
an idea or a principle that is believed to be true or relevant in any circumstances


Please show me where I used absolutes.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

hvybarrels

Re: Pro-Palestine protesters don't know why they are protesting
« Reply #67 on: May 07, 2024, 11:19:43 AM »
Absolute:  n.
an idea or a principle that is believed to be true or relevant in any circumstances


Please show me where I used absolutes.

I could quote the whole post, but that seems kind of redundant.

Aboslutes generally read kind of like this:

"The left always...."
Pretending to be offended does not make you a good person.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Pro-Palestine protesters don't know why they are protesting
« Reply #68 on: May 07, 2024, 11:48:53 AM »
I could quote the whole post, but that seems kind of redundant.

Aboslutes generally read kind of like this:

"The left always...."

Show where i used the word "always' or any synonym thereof.

Synonyms for "always":
consistently
constantly
ever
invariably
regularly
repeatedly

The only instance is when i said "the same treatment isn't afforded to both sides consistently."

That's the opposite of "consistently."

I believe you've misjudged me.  So, why even make this about me at all? 

Read what my actual words are saying, not what you think I meant.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

hvybarrels

Re: Pro-Palestine protesters don't know why they are protesting
« Reply #69 on: May 07, 2024, 12:06:58 PM »
Show where i used the word "always' or any synonym thereof.

Synonyms for "always":
consistently
constantly
ever
invariably
regularly
repeatedly

The only instance is when i said "the same treatment isn't afforded to both sides consistently."

That's the opposite of "consistently."

I believe you've misjudged me.  So, why even make this about me at all? 

Read what my actual words are saying, not what you think I meant.

Just because you consider yourself a conservative doesn't mean you are automatically immune to corporate brainwashing.

They want us to turn on each other, and they know which buttons to push in order to trigger a righteous indignation response.

Some are more prone to squabbling and therefore easier to manipulate than others.
Pretending to be offended does not make you a good person.

macsak

Re: Pro-Palestine protesters don't know why they are protesting
« Reply #70 on: May 07, 2024, 12:50:09 PM »

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Pro-Palestine protesters don't know why they are protesting
« Reply #71 on: May 07, 2024, 02:21:25 PM »
Just because you consider yourself a conservative doesn't mean you are automatically immune to corporate brainwashing.

Show where I labeled myself conservative.  Or are you just making an absolute generalization?

They want us to turn on each other, and they know which buttons to push in order to trigger a righteous indignation response.

Some are more prone to squabbling and therefore easier to manipulate than others.

I don't think i was squabbling before you started.  You accused me of thinking in absolutes which now has you squabbling about my mistaken (and inaccurate) belief I'm immune from corporate brainwashing.  Does your squabbling also make you "easier to manipulate than others?"
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

changemyoil66

Re: Pro-Palestine protesters don't know why they are protesting
« Reply #72 on: May 07, 2024, 02:27:23 PM »
I don't like the attitude and culture that frats have.  But they are sure surprising me across a few college campuses.  From protecting the American flag from being taken down, to challenging antifa to push up contest.

macsak

Re: Pro-Palestine protesters don't know why they are protesting
« Reply #73 on: May 07, 2024, 03:01:08 PM »
politico "corrected" article

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Pro-Palestine protesters don't know why they are protesting
« Reply #74 on: May 07, 2024, 03:19:13 PM »
I don't like the attitude and culture that frats have.  But they are sure surprising me across a few college campuses.  From protecting the American flag from being taken down, to challenging antifa to push up contest.

Don't paint all frats with the same broad brush.

For every reason you cite to dislike frats, there are 10 more reasons why frats and sororities are good.

I was in charge of soliciting snack donations for our college ROTC blood drive.  We not only had more food left over we didn't know what to do with, my Pizza Hut manager brought enough pizza to the student center to feed all the blood bank volunteers and ROTC cadets working the event.

The majority of the food was donated by the frats and sororities.  All I had to do was ask and then follow up with a nice thank you letter.  Some donated jars of peanut butter, jelly and loaves of bread that our Angel Flight sister organization made into sandwiches.  Others gave prepared snacks like cookies and brownies.  Also received lots of fruit juices and sodas.

Those groups are really big into social and charity events.  They have national organizations they are chartered under who expect them to contribute time and resources to campus events.

Not all frats are like those in Animal House.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

macsak

hvybarrels

Re: Pro-Palestine protesters don't know why they are protesting
« Reply #76 on: May 08, 2024, 01:05:08 AM »
netherlands does it right

https://twitter.com/RadioGenoa/status/1787765846426759230

The question that needs to be asked is were they being violent enough to deserve such treatment? If we start to cheer on police state tactics to suppress free speech then we are basically giving them permission to do it to us when it's our turn to stand up for something.
Pretending to be offended does not make you a good person.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Pro-Palestine protesters don't know why they are protesting
« Reply #77 on: May 08, 2024, 02:08:29 AM »
The question that needs to be asked is were they being violent enough to deserve such treatment? If we start to cheer on police state tactics to suppress free speech then we are basically giving them permission to do it to us when it's our turn to stand up for something.

Is it your opinion that law enforcement isn't allowed to use physical force to coerce anyone breaking the law to comply with orders to disperse until they've been the targets of similar physical force?

Say 300 people gather in a public park, and the ordinances say no overnight camping.  You tell them 100 times to pack up and leave, or they will be arrested and their tents removed and destroyed.

The campers don't have to initiate any violence.  You ask them, then you tell them, then you reason with them, then you order them, then you explain what happens next.  At what point is does it become the protesters' fault for the consequences they suffer?

Cops are allowed to use reasonable force to get someone to comply with their orders.  If, when force is applied, they still won't comply, you turn up the force level.  If they resist, you have the right to keep elevating the amount of force exerted. 

Is it your belief that the Cops have a limit as to how much force they can use to coerce compliance after which they should let the noncompliant law breaker/s win? 

We've seen protesters chain their wrists together inside lengths of PVC pipe to prevent the chains and locks from being removed.  They refuse to stand and walk creating a dead weight that takes lots of people at once to carry them away.

I think the Cops should be allowed to use as much force as necessary if the crowd is not complying with lawful orders. 

If they are being removed in violation of free speech rights however (no behavior other than words and in a place they can legally be), then that's a matter for the courts.  Sue the government actors involved for that. 

Ignoring the police when they are doing crowd control or clearing an illegal campsite won't end well.  They have a duty to keep the peace and enforce the laws.  You can't put up a tent where you shouldn't and then claim it can't be touched because "free speech."

If I'm ever in such a situation, it'll be because I want a confrontation with police.  Since my brain works, I understand the concept of consequences.

#FAFO
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

changemyoil66

Re: Pro-Palestine protesters don't know why they are protesting
« Reply #78 on: May 08, 2024, 09:25:16 AM »
Don't paint all frats with the same broad brush.

For every reason you cite to dislike frats, there are 10 more reasons why frats and sororities are good.

I was in charge of soliciting snack donations for our college ROTC blood drive.  We not only had more food left over we didn't know what to do with, my Pizza Hut manager brought enough pizza to the student center to feed all the blood bank volunteers and ROTC cadets working the event.

The majority of the food was donated by the frats and sororities.  All I had to do was ask and then follow up with a nice thank you letter.  Some donated jars of peanut butter, jelly and loaves of bread that our Angel Flight sister organization made into sandwiches.  Others gave prepared snacks like cookies and brownies.  Also received lots of fruit juices and sodas.

Those groups are really big into social and charity events.  They have national organizations they are chartered under who expect them to contribute time and resources to campus events.

Not all frats are like those in Animal House.

This is good to know as I didn't know this.  I was asked to join a frat, but was lightly informed of the process (hazing) and said no. I'm not down with participating in that just so I can be part of a frat/make friends.  Nothing else was explained to me, so my only XP is what I saw on TV/internet.  The draw in was "hey, join our frat if you like to party and wanna get laid".

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Pro-Palestine protesters don't know why they are protesting
« Reply #79 on: May 08, 2024, 10:50:58 AM »
This is good to know as I didn't know this.  I was asked to join a frat, but was lightly informed of the process (hazing) and said no. I'm not down with participating in that just so I can be part of a frat/make friends.  Nothing else was explained to me, so my only XP is what I saw on TV/internet.  The draw in was "hey, join our frat if you like to party and wanna get laid".

The partying aspect is not as bad as most think.  Yes, there is drinking.  but you're around your frat brothers who'll keep an eye on each other and take care of you if you over indulge.  I saw just as much partying or worse in the dorms. 

As for getting laid, being in a frat doesn't make you more attractive.  You're going to be out in the clubs and concerts looking for that anyway if that's your thing.  What frats do offer is more opportunity to meet girls when a frat and sorority has a mixer where one group is invited to a party at the other's house.  Opportunity to meet someone doesn't mean you're automatically going to have sex.  That still depends on whether you find someone at the party and are mutually attracted.

The clubs downtown were more of a "meat market" than the frat parties I went to.  The thing the mixers provide is a chance to talk to people you ordinarily wouldn't.  Then later, when you happen to have a class with them, you can continue to get to know each other if desired.

I met my future wife in the ROTC offices.  She was 2 years ahead of me, so in different ROTC classes.  We happened to have German language classes together, and just being acquainted from ROTC meant we weren't randomly striking up conversations with classmates we didn't know.

Frats and sororities work similarly.  Again, they aren't all the same, but for the most part, you aren't doing anything you wouldn't do in other settings.

Hazing is against campus policy.  If you get caught you can get expelled.  If it's a frat-initiated activity, the charter can be revoked.  Too many students have been injured or killed as a result of hazing.  If anyone is doing it, it's at great risk to the frat's existence on campus.

Having said that, some forms of hazing are perfectly fine, like having a pledge book signed by every current brother and maybe finding out which of them has a certain fact in their background -- requires you to get to know them.  During "Hell Week," you might be required to dress a certain way for a day (as a baby or opposite sex)  or other semi-humiliating tasks.  For initiation, there may be some more of that, but the line between doing those types of things and activities that can hurt or kill is a bright one.  The whole point to this is realizing that everyone who pledged before you also went through the same thing.  It creates memories and shared, adverse experiences meant to create bonds.  It also means you get to do the same for up to 7 more pledge classes.  Having been through it yourself, you know it's more about the positive results and not the humiliation in and of itself.

I'm not generalizing, but rather sharing my own observations and experiences.  It doesn't take much these days for a frat to lose the privilege of being on any given campus.  Animal House should have also driven that point home pretty well.

One of the biggest selling points to joining is the fact you're part of a national organization.  running into another person later in life who happens to have been in the same fraternity is like someone in Hawaii meeting someone who graduated from your high school.  You already have something in common to talk about.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2024, 10:57:18 AM by Flapp_Jackson »
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw