Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024 (Read 13827 times)

zippz

Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
« on: September 02, 2024, 03:02:15 PM »
This incident deserves it's own post.


Dispute between neighbors leaves 4 people dead, 2 critically hurt in Waianae Valley

Homicide Lieutenant Deena Thoemmes reported that the calls described a neighbor using a front loader—a type of heavy construction machinery—to ram multiple cars into the home.

“Multiple individuals were in the carport and fled or tried to flee when the suspect opened fire, striking the victims,” said Thoemmes during a press conference held on Sunday.

During the incident, a 42-year-old male resident of the home fatally shot the suspect, who was his neighbor.

https://www.khon2.com/local-news/dispute-between-neighbors-leaves-4-people-dead-2-critically-hurt-in-waianae-valley/

zippz

Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2024, 03:12:25 PM »
The resident of the house shooting in self-defense was released by HPD.  He has a clean record except for traffic violations and nothing showing he's a prohibited person.

The front loader driver Hiram Silva has a history of domestic abuse arrests and violating restraining orders.  Not sure if he was a prohibited person.

ren

Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2024, 03:32:08 PM »
The resident of the house shooting in self-defense was released by HPD.  He has a clean record except for traffic violations and nothing showing he's a prohibited person.

The front loader driver Hiram Silva has a history of domestic abuse arrests and violating restraining orders.  Not sure if he was a prohibited person.

https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2024/09/01/4-people-are-dead-following-apparent-shooting-west-oahu-police-sources/

Family members have identified the suspect as 58-year-old Hiram Silva. They described Silva as a “family man” and “loving father.”
Deeds Not Words

zippz

Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2024, 03:41:33 PM »
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2024/09/01/4-people-are-dead-following-apparent-shooting-west-oahu-police-sources/

Family members have identified the suspect as 58-year-old Hiram Silva. They described Silva as a “family man” and “loving father.”

They practice tough love in Waianae.

zippz

Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2024, 06:46:59 PM »
Looking more like a legit and clear self-defense case.

The incident may have begun when people who were at a graduation party at the Silva property were burning rubber up the narrow driveway shared by multiple properties along Waianae Valley Road.

Members of the family holding their own gathering walked down to the Silva property to confront them.

“Hiram was really quiet guy and he always had ways of doing things, not Kosher or how you say it?” he said. “He would fire off his gun, get drunk fire off his gun but he’s never combat it and point it a people.”

https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2024/09/03/family-complaint-may-have-provoked-waianae-shooting-that-ended-with-4-dead-2-injured/

ren

Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2024, 07:11:26 PM »
Looking more like a legit and clear self-defense case.

The incident may have begun when people who were at a graduation party at the Silva property were burning rubber up the narrow driveway shared by multiple properties along Waianae Valley Road.

Members of the family holding their own gathering walked down to the Silva property to confront them.

“Hiram was really quiet guy and he always had ways of doing things, not Kosher or how you say it?” he said. “He would fire off his gun, get drunk fire off his gun but he’s never combat it and point it a people.”

https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2024/09/03/family-complaint-may-have-provoked-waianae-shooting-that-ended-with-4-dead-2-injured/

The norm of "family man" is different on the west side and the definition of "combative" is different as well. Let me get this right: on the west side it is OK to fire your gun as long as it is not pointed at people and it is OK to destroy your neighbor's house with large machinery. The actions of a "family man" . The victim's family is now afraid of retribution from the SIlvas. What would the SIlvas do if this happened to them?
Like I said the community defines the culture. No amount of policing will help them.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2024, 07:22:21 PM by ren »
Deeds Not Words

ren

Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2024, 08:08:38 PM »
https://www.kitv.com/news/crime/loved-ones-grieve-those-they-lost-in-a-shooting-rampage-in-waianae/article_40c89f26-69b3-11ef-9bc4-ebedcd73f78e.html

“We're having a lot of these shootings go on, but there is no HPD presence." Ganaban added. "If you had this many homicides, a loader came into the property and is still on the property wouldn't you want to prevent something or at least be able to intervene quickly."

yeah, because deterring heavy equipment is part of LE SOP. They would do the same thing as the victim's family.
Deeds Not Words

zippz

Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2024, 08:35:57 PM »
Here we go again.


Self-defense claim allowed in Hawaii under special circumstances

https://www.khon2.com/top-stories/self-defense-claim-allowed-in-hawaii-under-special-circumstances/

HONOLULU (KHON2) — Details on Saturdayʻs shooting in Waianae are still under investigation but what would need to be done to prove the shooting was in self defense?

“In Hawaii, a person is allowed to use proportional amounts of force to defend themselves,” said Victor Bakke, defense attorney. “And what that means is that you cannot bring a gun to a knife fight, is the old saying.”

QUIETShooter

Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2024, 09:21:02 PM »
Someone comes at me with a knife I'm shooting him.
Sometimes you gotta know when to save your bullets.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2024, 09:49:57 PM »
Here we go again.


Self-defense claim allowed in Hawaii under special circumstances

https://www.khon2.com/top-stories/self-defense-claim-allowed-in-hawaii-under-special-circumstances/

HONOLULU (KHON2) — Details on Saturdayʻs shooting in Waianae are still under investigation but what would need to be done to prove the shooting was in self defense?

“In Hawaii, a person is allowed to use proportional amounts of force to defend themselves,” said Victor Bakke, defense attorney. “And what that means is that you cannot bring a gun to a knife fight, is the old saying.”

Bullcrap.  The state should have to show evidence that there was a motive other than self defense.  Short of that, there's no reason to have to defend a claim of self defense.  In court, you don't even have to offer a defense to charges if the prosecutor fails to establish a crime was committed.

The real rule is, you're allowed to use lethal force up to and including a firearm "if the actor believes that deadly force is necessary to protect himself against death, serious bodily injury, kidnapping, rape, or forcible sodomy."  Lethal force is not limited to firearms.  A knife is lethal force, too, so the "old saying" is just ignorant.  You are allowed to use the force you deem necessary to stop that threat.  I agree you don't pull a gun on someone wanting to start a fist fight, but any weapon in a hand -- ball bat, tire iron, heavy rock -- can be lethal.  People do die from fist fights, too, but those are much less likely.  However, if you're down and being relentlessly kicked, or you stop fighting and the other person is intent on causing you as much physical damage as they can, then you may have to escallate to lethal force to save your life regardless of any weapons in their hands.

Reasonable force, not proportional force.  Proportional force applies to law enforcement, not victims of violence.

HI law does require you to retreat if possible or surrender whatever the attacker is trying to take from you IF the attacker believes they have a lawful claim to the property -- i.e. you picked up an iPhone you tried to walk away with, and the owner is demanding it back.  Can't defend property with lethal force if you don't lawfully own it.

Laws are not based on "old sayings."  Victor Bakke needs to stick to the law.  But, I'm sure if he did, he'd have a hard time defending criminals who are totally guilty as charged.

This state sucks when it comes to the individual rights of the law abiding gun owners.

https://law.justia.com/codes/hawaii/title-37/chapter-703/section-703-304/
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

QUIETShooter

Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2024, 06:30:39 AM »
I'm hoping more information on the victims get reported.  Like who and what relation they have in all of this.

The family is afraid of retaliation from Silva's family.  Understandable.

Does Silva's family feel the same?  Retaliation goes both ways.  That guy trashed the house and probably killed family members.

Seems like this is not the end of things with these families.

Sometimes you gotta know when to save your bullets.

macsak

QUIETShooter

Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2024, 09:13:45 AM »
https://www.civilbeat.org/?p=1669197

The only meaningful statement out of that whole article is when Tupola said quicker prosecutions of wrongdoers.

And I want to add meaningful incarceration.  Make it hurt so even the most stupid assh*le out there will get the message.

The rest of the rhetoric was beating a dead horse.
Sometimes you gotta know when to save your bullets.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2024, 09:49:28 AM »
The only meaningful statement out of that whole article is when Tupola said quicker prosecutions of wrongdoers.

And I want to add meaningful incarceration.  Make it hurt so even the most stupid assh*le out there will get the message.

The rest of the rhetoric was beating a dead horse.

Seems like the people committing murder are not concerned with the legal/incarceration consequences.

HI is okay keeping repeat offenders of lesser crimes on the streets.  This state only appears to take notice after someone chooses to kill..  In many cases the subject   is resigned to stop breathing long before they can be arrested.  If the person who shot 3 women wasn't himself fatally shot, would he have tried to commit suicide on the scene?  suicide by COP?  Dying may have been his end game all along -- he just wanted to take others with him. 

More COPS patrolling the area and stricter gun laws will never prevent another incident like this.  Asking the government to do more to stop these crimes is only a valid solution if you can put your finger on the real problem.  Too bad the people who hate guns will continue to use these tragedies to further an agenda instead of preventing them.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

drck1000

Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2024, 11:56:57 AM »
https://www.civilbeat.org/?p=1669197

Quote
Security has long been a concern on the Leeward Side, and residents have felt neglected by city officials. Underscoring the frustration on both sides, Mayor Rick Blangiardi said during a May town hall in Waianae that there needs to be more oversight from community members too, referencing the police’s rampant vacancies and difficulty recruiting and retaining officers.

Why isn’t the community doing more? The police can’t do everything,” he said at the time.

Interesting take on the situation. . . "do more" you say? 

QUIETShooter

Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
« Reply #15 on: September 03, 2024, 12:32:54 PM »
Interesting take on the situation. . . "do more" you say?

Help them, Rick. :grrr:
Sometimes you gotta know when to save your bullets.

ren

Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
« Reply #16 on: September 03, 2024, 12:41:50 PM »
tjey need Jesus. more church less gyms
Deeds Not Words

ren

Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
« Reply #17 on: September 03, 2024, 08:10:08 PM »
When does common sense cross the line?
The guy drove a loader onto a neighbor's property then shot and killed three people. The media are now questioning if it was self defense? 1+1=2?  I dunno. Maybe.  Idiot sheep

https://www.kitv.com/news/crime/what-is-considered-self-defense-and-what-isnt-in-hawaii/article_c0f7fef0-6a7e-11ef-a44c-d3c539cc90a7.html

The Waianae incident from Saturday night brought up an interesting argument about the man who some said acted in self-defense when he shot the suspect, but when does self-defense cross the line?

The man who shot and killed the man who went on the rampage was arrested on suspicion of murder. On Sunday, he was released pending investigation on Sunday night.

Hiram Silva went onto a neighboring property and destroyed a number of cars and then shot and killed three women and injured two others. He was then shot and killed by a neighbor. Some question if this falls under the category of self-defense.
Deeds Not Words

QUIETShooter

Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
« Reply #18 on: September 03, 2024, 08:19:29 PM »
Logan said today regardless of the circumstances, you shoot someone you will be arrested.  So someone who shot a person to protect his life and his loved ones (and in this particular case, his property) he will be arrested and it is up to the prosecutors whether they have a case or not.

The guy has been released but still under investigation.

Yep, it does go against common sense but then again, we are in Hawaii.

Since when did common sense prevail over the weaponized Aloha Spirit.

Answer:  Never.
Sometimes you gotta know when to save your bullets.

QUIETShooter

Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
« Reply #19 on: September 03, 2024, 08:24:54 PM »
Oh yeah, they mentioned HPD records show the guy who shot Silva had a handgun that was legally owned and registered.

Silva?  His handgun not so much. :rofl:

Yep.  Hawaii's leaders group law abiding legally acquired firearm owners together with da adda guys...... :crazy:

All firearms owners are criminals.  In their eyes anyway.
Sometimes you gotta know when to save your bullets.