What CCW insurance do you use and why?

Currently using Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network (ACLDN) which is actually not insurance.  It's like a group defense fund when self-defense is used regardless of type of weapon.  I got it because of the price and Massad Ayoob, Tom Givens, Karl Rehn, and other self-defense experts are part of it.  It costs about $100 per year and covers the usual bail bond, criminal and civil defense.  It also has a newsletter and self-defense educational lessons.

I used USCCA in the past but it is expensive starting at $300 a year.  The lessons are more polished and easier to understand for beginners and their unrelated firearms training programs are a bit better than the NRA.  But I already take a lot of classes on self-defense law and tactics so just needed the insurance.

Old thread that covers some insurance:
https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=49173.0

Each one has it's pros and cons.

Like any retainer type, be cautious as even though the company will pay, finding a lawyer to accept may be hard. Imagine being paid a max amount of $50,000 for a Kyle Rittenhouse type trial. No attorney will take you on.

Even $100K might not be enough.

Then add in some don't operate in HI. Like the one Active Self Protection recomends, Firearms Legal Protection. I went online a few days ago and selected Hawaii and it's not available. NRA Carry Guard had the same issue precovid. IDK if they fixed it or not.

I have USCCA. They protect up to $15K for red flag defense and getting your guns back. But they've had some bad PR by 1 YT'er. Guns and Gadgets said that the prankster who got shot by a guy named Austin was dropped by USCCA. IDK the full details, but some guys approached him in a food court with his phone and he was quick on the trigger (video shows this). So IDK how, but his public defender got him out of it and it was ruled self defense. GUns and Gadgets mentioned this specific situation and he asked USCCA why and no reply. At the time, Guns and Gadgets was sponsered by USCCA.

Then add in non-retainer type, you have to pay it back if you're guilty in court. But this isnt' a concern as if you're going to jail for many years, money is the last of your issues.

I look at it this way, something is better than nothing. Like if you chose to CCW a glock, it's better than not ccwing.

you forgot the smiley or j/k...

Each one has it's pros and cons.

Like any retainer type, be cautious as even though the company will pay, finding a lawyer to accept may be hard. Imagine being paid a max amount of $50,000 for a Kyle Rittenhouse type trial. No attorney will take you on.

Even $100K might not be enough.

Then add in some don't operate in HI. Like the one Active Self Protection recomends, Firearms Legal Protection. I went online a few days ago and selected Hawaii and it's not available. NRA Carry Guard had the same issue precovid. IDK if they fixed it or not.

I have USCCA. They protect up to $15K for red flag defense and getting your guns back. But they've had some bad PR by 1 YT'er. Guns and Gadgets said that the prankster who got shot by a guy named Austin was dropped by USCCA. IDK the full details, but some guys approached him in a food court with his phone and he was quick on the trigger (video shows this). So IDK how, but his public defender got him out of it and it was ruled self defense. GUns and Gadgets mentioned this specific situation and he asked USCCA why and no reply. At the time, Guns and Gadgets was sponsered by USCCA.

Then add in non-retainer type, you have to pay it back if you're guilty in court. But this isnt' a concern as if you're going to jail for many years, money is the last of your issues.

I look at it this way, something is better than nothing. Like if you chose to CCW a glock, it's better than not ccwing.

you forgot the smiley or j/k...

No focus.

Interesting, gave up on USCCA and went to Attorneys on Retainer.  Very interesting.  Can't wait for the followup in a couple years.

Looked AOR up and it's a very different program from a couple years ago.  Could be worth another look.  Pricey though.

I currently have USCCA but have been thinking of just dropping CCW insurance altogether.  I originally purchased CCW insurance after I got my NV permit
and used to go to Vegas couple times a year.   Haven’t left HI since 2019 due to my wife's health makes it difficult to travel long distances.  I also didn’t bother
to get a HI CCW because of all the restrictions.  USCCA  prices go up every year and it is around $43 a moth for the plan I have.  The above video convinced me to
just drop them and will do so before next month’s payment is due.

2nd youtuber promoting atty on retainer (aor). 2nd guy also who was sponsored by uscca now.

I take what both say with a grain of salt.

"Im no longer on contract with uscca".

 Both prob left out "im on contract w/ AOR to bash uscca and uptalk AOR".



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Guns and Gadgets jumpted aboard AOR.  Can't trust influencers on youtube on anything as they get paid by sponsors and can't say anything bad about their product.

A lot of gun influencers on youtube dropped Sonoran Valley Institute (gunsmithing school) as sponsors because it was a scam school.  Recently there's been outrage on the Honey App that a lot of influencers were marketing for a long time.  Turns out the app was redirecting referral codes from the influencers to the Honey App and in turn stealing income from the influencers without them realizing it.

It's all about the money and influencers will do anything for it.

Just remembered AOR tried to sponsor me as an instructor and for HIFICO a few years ago.  I didn't care for their program back then as it only covered attorneys fees (no bail, expert witnesses, etc) and told them I'm not comfortable marketing something I'm not familiar with.

Im having trouble looking up what the retainer amount to be paid is.  The sample agreement has no dollar amounts on it as it's left blank.

This is important because if the retainer is very low, then good luck finding an attorney in their network to represent you.

I don't plan to get any SD insurance after I drop USCCA at the end of the month.  I only carry a Taser, a Mace pepper gun and a 3 inch fixed blade.  If HI sensitive places laws get overturned and I get a HI CCW, then I'll get SD insurance again.

I don't plan to get any SD insurance after I drop USCCA at the end of the month.  I only carry a Taser, a Mace pepper gun and a 3 inch fixed blade.  If HI sensitive places laws get overturned and I get a HI CCW, then I'll get SD insurance again.

You don't have to carry a firearm to use firearm insurance.  Shooting a burglar can get you arrested and charged. 

Even if the action was justified, they can still drag you into court costing you tens of thousands in lawyer fees plus bail bonds, lost wages, replacing a confiscated gun seized as evidence, expert witnesses, lab tests, etc.  Depending on the charges and the evidence against you, the cost to defend yourself will vary. 

If things don't go well, there will be the cost of appeals and litigating civil suits.

You don't have to find trouble outside the home.  Trouble can easily find you.  Might be someone breaking into the wrong house by mistake looking for an ex or whoever else.

The point is, if you keep a firearm for protection, you should consider protection in the event you ever need to use it.

Where I live in Puna, gunshots are common.  You will hear several a week and people here don’t bother to call the cops. Lots of wild pigs to take care of disposal.

I will be 75 in 3 months and not once needed SD insurance so I will play the odds.  I got maybe another 10-15 years if I’m lucky and for some strange reason, the older I get,

the less I worry about what may or may not happen.

Where I live in Puna, gunshots are common.  You will hear several a week and people here don’t bother to call the cops. Lots of wild pigs to take care of disposal.

I will be 75 in 3 months and not once needed SD insurance so I will play the odds.  I got maybe another 10-15 years if I’m lucky and for some strange reason, the older I get,

the less I worry about what may or may not happen.

Life insurance is for the people who depend on you.  If you die in your prime, you might have a good amount of insurance to make sure your family doesn't lose the house and that the kids' have the choice to attend college.

As the family grows up, leaves the home to start their own lives and careers, and your house is paid off or close to it, car is paid off, etc., plus whatever retirement saving you have can replace the security insurance once provided.

Same for firearms.  If your protection is the only consideration, then you can take risks that only affect you.  If you don't have to worry about the financial burden of a self defense shooting being carried by your family, then you can rest easier than someone who doesn't want to have to put the house up for a bail bond or get a mortgage on the equity to pay for lawyers.  And if a civil suit finds you liable, maybe losing your house totally is possible.

The level of risk varies with each person's financial resources and number of dependents as does the tolerance for risk one might have.

There's no magic answer -- a one-size-fits-all situation.  Each person must do the research, look at the risks, and make their choices.

Insurance is always a gamble.  Some insurance is mandatory by law or lender contract, such as auto and homeowner's.  Other is 100% optional, as is Life and Firearm/Legal assistance.  Insurance offers peace of mind when you don't need it and a welcome safety net when you do need it.

Insurance is kind of like carrying concealed every single day:  you may never need it your entire life, but when you do need it, you'll be very glad you have it.

You don't have to carry a firearm to use firearm insurance.  Shooting a burglar can get you arrested and charged. 

Even if the action was justified, they can still drag you into court costing you tens of thousands in lawyer fees plus bail bonds, lost wages, replacing a confiscated gun seized as evidence, expert witnesses, lab tests, etc.  Depending on the charges and the evidence against you, the cost to defend yourself will vary. 

If things don't go well, there will be the cost of appeals and litigating civil suits.

You don't have to find trouble outside the home.  Trouble can easily find you.  Might be someone breaking into the wrong house by mistake looking for an ex or whoever else.

The point is, if you keep a firearm for protection, you should consider protection in the event you ever need to use it.

AOR doesn't cover civil suits. But USCCA might. But you gotta be found not guilty or not charged with a crime 1st.

Guns and Gadgets jumpted aboard AOR.  Can't trust influencers on youtube on anything as they get paid by sponsors and can't say anything bad about their product.

A lot of gun influencers on youtube dropped Sonoran Valley Institute (gunsmithing school) as sponsors because it was a scam school.  Recently there's been outrage on the Honey App that a lot of influencers were marketing for a long time.  Turns out the app was redirecting referral codes from the influencers to the Honey App and in turn stealing income from the influencers without them realizing it.

It's all about the money and influencers will do anything for it.

I 4got to add that it seems like the YT'er are knit picking. It would be like if you had car insurance and totalled your car and they didn't buy you a brand new car to replace you 2002 Toyota Corolla.  Only USAA has something close taht they will replace it with the same kind of car you lost or the next closest model. But never a brand new car for something like this example.

That DoorDash (Austin) guy was quick on the trigger and I don't see how it could have been justified.

Looking at a few of the comparison charts for current insurance/legal coverage plans, there's one thing that would be a deal-breaker for me at this point:  they call it "claw-back".

Basically, a lot of insurance will not cover you if your shooting was not ruled justified in self defense.  The two main scenarios have been; (1) the insurance made you pay during the trial then reimburses you after being acquitted, or (2) the insurance pays defense costs, but if you are not acquitted, they "claw-back" the money they put out for your expenses.

I'm seeing more options that include a "no claw-back" feature, so if they pay your costs ahead of a verdict, they won't claw-back that money from you if found criminally at fault.  That to me means they will do a more thorough look into your case before agreeing to pay costs.  If they don't see a clear-cut case of self defense, I imagine they will decline to cover you, but i haven't checked it out to that degree yet.

Anyway, I thought that might be something to share.  Maybe someone doing research can fill in the facts a little more thoroughly.

 

Here's some information from  ACLDN.  It's a relatively small network with 22,000 members and $4,000,000 currently in the defense fund.  Very no frills as there is no fancy marketing and the website looks very basic.  Since there's essentially no marketing, most of the members are likely students who took Massad Ayoob, Tom Givens, and Karl Rehns class or referred by those students. 

33 incidents where funds were disbursed in 14 years.  I'm a bit surprised by 18% fatal shootings.  I thought it'd be significantly lower.


Total funds disbursed over 13 years:  The amount of funds used is very small compared to what I expected and includes 7 homicides in defense.  It's explained that none of the cases went to trial.  Most of them are attorneys used for consultation and to check on things. 


2016 post on denials:
Only two Network members have asked for help and been denied after being involved in what was clearly not self defense (one entailed destruction of public utilities while intoxicated and another left the safety of his home to go outside and fire a shot to frighten away a dog). We fully explored all possible avenues of assisting, but when unable to turn up any elements of self defense, we regretfully declined, explaining that the Legal Defense Fund must be reserved to help members who have no recourse but to defend themselves or be killed or injured, elements that were entirely absent in situations underlying the two denials.

Information on cases denied and accepted.
https://armedcitizensnetwork.org/august-2024-presidents-message