Lets put this in another way, I call it Networking,  knowing who to talk to if you have a problem/question.
 
Money well spent.  I wasn't going until the Wife found out who else was going.  Pretty much all the people she
likes in the gun community she enjoys shooting with.  Most likely all be at the same table.  Of course, I got the bill....
 
If you think $45 is high, ever been to Dan Inouye's fund raiser $100, real hand carved roast beef. 
Most local fund raisers for politicos Were $25.
Try going to an Anti 2A's fund raiser Wearing a Large "I'm the NRA" button.  (I got Free tickets for that one and a lot of others)
I've been asked to write $100 checks for donations to Pro 2A candidates running for office.
Just wrote a check to HRA's PAC, Wife mailed it today at work.
 
If You have plans or ideas that you want to pursue, don't you think that getting support even if it's a mention
in the HRA news letter or maybe even the NRA magazine as a New organization for 2A in Hawaii, may help with
attracting more, varied people?  Getting accreditted with a Known organization may help when testifying at a hearing.
 
You want a meeting place, maybe they can help you find one. 
 
 

Does anyone have the info for the dinner? Is it public like the lunch is?

CALL Harvey Gerwig, maybe he still has room at the HRA Tables.  306-7194
 
Also, if you need an intro to legislators, Mark Plischke, is familiar with and known to key Pro 2A legislators.
Presuming he will be at the HRA tables too. 
 
BTW, the time to start lobbying is Before the legislature starts.  Like as soon as the election is over and we know who
is still there and what positions our "friends" are in.
If you didn't know, politics is a give and take game.  Can't have everything your way, need votes and cooperation to get
legislation passed thru Both Senate and House and Signed by Gov to get a new law or rescind an old bad law.
 
How do you think the Castle Bill and the no gun confiscation in an emergency, "Katrina" bill got passed?  Legislators
had to be convinced these were good laws.

Such as...? The HRA? OK, when do THEY meet up and discuss 2A or CCW issues? Or getting the public informed and involved? Their site just shows a Funshoot and Cowboy shoot day, not really what I would consider a call to arms over 2AH issues.

- Alex

       Sure, why not? The HRA board meets monthly. You're free to attend. Maybe with more help we might be able to divest some energy into CCW.. Although, to be fair, we discuss 2A issues with some regularity....like every meeting.....sometimes it better to thoughtfully plan out your strategy rather than rush in loudly to an ill conceived call to arms....again, it comes down to either you talk or you do something (I am not suggesting that you only talk...). If you do decide to do something,  you either have to organize likeminded individuals, which can take a lot of time and energy. Or, you can participate in an existing organization with a demonstrable track record...and if after joining and participating you want to advocate for certain actions or a different political course, you are free (and encouraged) to do so. 

Hey guys,
 
Stick around for the elections.  Lets see who gets elected and into what positions.
 
See if our "friends" made it or not.  Then we'll know where we stand.
 
I fully expect the Anti 2A Law Enforcement Coalition and other Anti 2A forces to run their agenda thru the new legislature.
If they do, expect a LOT of anti gun stuff.  Bills you thought Dead may even be Revived.
 
If so, Kiss your dreams of CCW good bye.  Don't even think of getting the 10 round mag ban lifted.
 
Expect more restrictions.  It's going to be all that HRA/NRA can do just to keep the status quo.
 
What's needed?  New Members, LOTS of new members.  Lots of money going into the PAC. 
 
All you young guys into tacticool, join or be prepared to hang individually and loose all your toys. 
 
I really hope I'm wrong about what bills may be forthcoming......
 

I will file TRO's and injunctions before I see us go backwards, and that's a certainty.  Stand by for next week I had some unexpected news come my way.

Sure, why not? The HRA board meets monthly. You're free to attend.

And   why is it that it takes me complaining on a forum to find out about   this?

Maybe   with more help we might be able to divest some energy into CCW..   Although, to be fair, we discuss 2A issues with some regularity....like   every meeting.....sometimes it better to thoughtfully plan out your   strategy rather than rush in loudly to an ill conceived call to   arms....

Again, it's hard to get help when you don't   ADVERTISE that you have meetings. And I'm to the point of rushing in   loudly BECAUSE no one seemed interested in actually doing anything   despite my multiple attempts to get a group together. Or we can sit   around and wait and wait and wait some more, thoughtfully planning out a   strategy, while the anti-2A groups (apparently) have their stuff   together already.

The fact of the matter is that I will be   leaving Hawaii in less than two years, so the odds of me seeing ANY of   the fruits of this labor is slim to none. But that doesn't matter to me.   Here I am: TRYING to get involved and be proactive. I have offered   possible solutions to get people to notice our cause, and was told to   wait (which I understand). Furthermore, I have attempted to get a group   from the 2AH FORUM to get together and meet up. And   instead of anyone pointing me in the right direction, I'm just told   repeatedly "why reinvent the wheel?" I apparently HAVE to get loud for   anyone to actually take notice. It's sad when I feel like I can't even   get anything accomplished on the 2AH forum. And you wonder why people   already feel defeated and don't get involved...

again,   it comes down to either you talk or you do something (I am not   suggesting that you only talk...). If you do decide to do something,    you either have to organize likeminded individuals, which can take a   lot of time and energy.

Oh really? I thought we had a   group of likeminded individuals right here...but apparently getting them   to meet up takes an act of Congress all on it's own. I don't understand   why it has to be all or nothing. Do I need to put together a charter,   register as PAC, and sign off the rights to my first born child for   people to get together? Or can we just meet up some place for a beer and   meet-and-greet?

 

Or,   you can participate in an existing organization with a demonstrable   track record...and if after joining and participating you want to   advocate for certain actions or a different political course, you are   free (and encouraged) to do so.

As Brandon pointed out in the KHSC thread,

However, I am glad that you all are enlightening me about what the clubs   are doing because the perception is completely different.  Especially   when it's coming from LEO's, certain shop owners, and military personal   of whom I have spoken to over the year.(Emphasis mine)

Yet   we are chastised for not knowing what these organizations have done for   our rights and told that we should just blindly jump on the bandwagon.   Is this our fault or the fault of the organization who seems reluctant   to actually put their name out there; who seems reluctant to let people   in on their pseudo-secret meetings. I have to ask, is there a reason why   the HRA meetings aren't listed on their website? All they would have to   do is put it on the event calendar and say, "Call _____ phone number   for details." If you want participation, then you need to provide your   audience with the appropriate information, not make them spend hours   searching for it and then playing phone tag trying to contact the right   person on the website to find out IF they even have meetings at all;   much less when and where they are. Common sense tells me that if they   have an event calendar with events listed, yet nothing about a monthly   meeting, then they probably aren't having one. If I feel this way, then   surely there are others who feel this way too.

It seems to me   that the HRA seems content with distancing themselves from their   strongest potential support base (military, LEOs, and store owners).   When was the last time they did any kind of PR work on any of the   military installations on Oahu? There are so many avenues to get the   word out to military folks (most of whom are pro-2a), yet I would be   shocked if even 1% of my command even knows that the HRA exists or that   the NRA offers free membership for AD military personnel. I can tell you   that I have helped several people sign up for their free NRA   membership, but it's hard to get people to put down money to an   organization when they don't think they are doing much of anything at   all. As an example, how much advertisement is happening on K-bay for the   NRA/HRA lunch? I haven't been over there in months, so I have no idea,   but I'd surprised if anything was done at all...except maybe a sign in   the O-club...and VERY few Sailors/Marines are even authorized in the   O-club. So unless there are other forms of advertising, then it's   unlikely any of them know about it at all.

You said that   perception is influenced by where you are sitting, and   that is   absolutely correct. Maybe you should take your own advice to   heart and   realize that MOST PEOPLE do not sit where you and the other   board   members sit...yet would LOVE to; they simply aren't afforded the     opportunity to do so. Can they dig up the information? Sure, but why     should they have to? If you want participation, you need to look at     things from a complete newbie's perspective, not the perspective of     someone that has been in the activist scene for years.

- Alex

I like that you're fired up about this Alex.  It makes me feel fired up too.  I believe the main reason for the "wait and see" attitude is because of the upcoming election.  Things are getting shaken up in Hawaii. Hopefully more pro-gun candidates will win in November.  It doesn't make sense to spearhead a movement based around politicians who may not be around in a month or so.  This election will reshape the political landscape and we'll know where to go from there.  Just wait until January 2011, there will be plenty of opportunity for some hands on advocacy.

As far as the "re-inventing the wheel" comment, I think there is some merit to it.  The HRA is, as I see it, the old guard that has been defending 2A rights in Hawaii longer than any other group I know of.  They may not be the fastest moving ship, but they have been in the water the longest and have the most experience.  In no way am I saying the HRA is absolutely right in everything; like any organization they have their flaws and pitfalls.  But rather than starting anew, why not join their camp, take a look at their playbook and if there are new things we need to try, or things that need to be improved?  They've got the experience and have done most of the legwork, why not put it to good use?  If you want to meet up with people, these are the guys most eager to meet up who have proven they're more than just talk and bravado like so many internet advocates. 

Finally, the main reason I suspect HRA does not actively pursue military members is this:

The fact of the matter is that I will be   leaving Hawaii in less than two years, so the odds of me seeing ANY of   the fruits of this labor is slim to none.

 

For many military, their stay in Hawaii is just a temporary stop.  Eventually they will move back home or on to greener pastures where the gun laws are not as rigid and Hawaii will be just a distant memory.  I've only met a handful of the HRA LIFE instructors, but from what I've seen they're a pretty motley mix of different backgrounds, with a good number of them being military or ex military so I highly doubt it's anything against servicemen or women joining the HRA.  The military stationed here just have such a high turnover; for the most part it's their disinterest in HRA and changing the gun laws here-- not the other way around.  But there are exceptions to the rule like yourself, Alex. 

Again, I can empathize with your frustrations.  Things are not perfect here in Hawaii.  However things will not change over night.  Especially in the legal process, slow and steady often wins the race.  Many of us understand we will not see immediate results to the many gun control problems Hawaii faces, but are willing to run the marathon rather than win a foot race. 


To the HRA members (namely Hicarry or Tom G) when and where is the next HRA meeting? 

I really have nothing against the HRA, my biggest issue is just that they have (IMO) a horrible PR campaign.

I see what you're saying about the military being so transient that the HRA doesn't actively pursue them for membership; but that just seems like a poor decision to me. Especially with the current state of affairs, many in the military (at least many that I know) are looking for ways to make sure that the very things that they are fighting for abroad don't get taken away by the current powers-that-be.

Regarding the "wait and see" attitude, my concern is that it will end up like this thread from December 2009 and January of 2010 (http://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=223.0)...5 total posts, and nothing to show that we did anything. Maybe we did, maybe we didn't, but perception is everything...and the perception from that thread is certainly that we didn't do squat last year. Just like with only 6 people applying for a CCW permit last year, if people don't SEE others getting involved, they will imagine that they will be on their own and their time and effort will be wasted.

- Alex

Alex,
 
I can relate to your concerns...and you may be right. HRA does need to be a little better at advertising itself. Maybe it does need a little new blood and a little of that energy and excitement you have toward the cause. The problem, in part, and I don't mean to make excuses, is that everyone is a volunteer. They do what they can, where they can, when they can...They are the same folks that instead of taking it easy, man the booths at the shooting sports fair, the DLNR hunting and fishing days, boy scout events, and any other public venue we can get into. We have partnered with the gun shops, some are a little better than others in keeping our material out in front for folks to see....could we do better, you bet. Could we use some help doing it? Yep.
 
HRA does target the military. We, to a person, feel the service members deserve our respect and as much consideration for the sacrifices they make for us. That's why we give them a free membership. Why don't we do more active recruitment, well it again goes back to time, available personnel and money. Remember, everyone wants HRA to file a lawsuit, or take out adds, or any number of things to be more visible....well all of that takes effort and money. More active recruitment of the military meand diverting limited resources from other initiatives, with no ability to recoup costs. Law suits are costly, as are ads. And it's not like the HRA is adverse to these ideas, but you do the math...1000 "active" (that means paying, not active as in helping or donating time....) x $25.00. That's $25,000.00 a year. And if you factor in the life members, the spouses (get membership for $5.00 additional) and the no money producing military members, and it is actually less than $25 grand a year. Now, we have to pay for the website, the telephone listing and answering service. We pay a webmaster to manage the website 'cause none of us has either the technical ability or the time to manage it ourselves. Throw in a yearly BBQ or dinner for the annual meeting...how far do you think that goes?
The bottom line is we need members, but we also need those members to be more active in HRA activities. But again, your right, we could be more "visible" and I will make sure we start looking at the various items you mention. Know any good PR firms that will give a deal on a campaign? 
 
Let me know if you want to attend the meetings...members are always welcome and encouraged. Thanks for your input
 

It's late, I'm tired, and I probably should not post this.  Meh.

[rant]

I'm tired of not being appreciated.  We say "Thanks to HRA, you can still own a handgun in this state.  Thanks to HRA, you can still own a .50 BMG in this state.  Thanks to HRA, you don't have to pay for your ammunition to be serial numbered.  Thanks to HRA, we now have Castle Law protecting you from both criminal and civil lawsuits in the event of self defense.  Thanks to HRA, your guns cannot legally be confiscated during an emergency.  HRA runs fun shoots for its members every month at Kokohead.  And HRA also organizes the Shooting Sports Fair every year" 

And what do we hear?  "Yeah, but..." 

Jesus Christ, would it kill anyone to say THANK YOU? ? 

[/rant]

Now, someone somewhere wanted a meet and greet.  I don't need much of excuse to go for a coffee, and even less of an excuse to go for a beer.  I'm available in the evenings Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays.  Weekends are also a possibility.   

Actually, screw that.  Monday, Oct 25, at or around 5:30 PM, I will be at the Varsity.  Look for a long ponytail, a beard, and an HRA t-shirt.  Introduce yourself, and your first round is on me.

Tom: I would love to meet with you, but I am out of town in Anaheim.  I am meeting with some open carry people here tomorrow actually.

I think we could get together a few people on a weekend at the range for some fun, if we just plan it a few weeks in advance.  When I get back on the 27th I will work on arranging this.  I will be attending the HRA meetings when I am in town, maybe I can be of some assistance to them. I did just join!

On a side note I have no idea how military can join the NRA for free --- please send me this information someone!!!

As far as lawsuits go, I only have a few thousand saved -- my estimate is about 50k so it would take some fundraising or corporate donations to the HRA or other foundations to get those going.  Most of the costs would be recovered, as we don't have to prevail on all merits of a complaint to seek full lawyer fees. Just some food for thought.

It's late, I'm tired, and I probably should not post this.  Meh.

[rant]

I'm tired of not being appreciated.  We say "Thanks to HRA, you can still own a handgun in this state.  Thanks to HRA, you can still own a .50 BMG in this state.  Thanks to HRA, you don't have to pay for your ammunition to be serial numbered.  Thanks to HRA, we now have Castle Law protecting you from both criminal and civil lawsuits in the event of self defense.  Thanks to HRA, your guns cannot legally be confiscated during an emergency.  HRA runs fun shoots for its members every month at Kokohead.  And HRA also organizes the Shooting Sports Fair every year" 

And what do we hear?  "Yeah, but..." 

Jesus Christ, would it kill anyone to say THANK YOU? ? 

[/rant]

Now, someone somewhere wanted a meet and greet.  I don't need much of excuse to go for a coffee, and even less of an excuse to go for a beer.  I'm available in the evenings Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays.  Weekends are also a possibility.   

Actually, screw that.  Monday, Oct 25, at or around 5:30 PM, I will be at the Varsity.  Look for a long ponytail, a beard, and an HRA t-shirt.  Introduce yourself, and your first round is on me.

Oh I am so down for this. Varsity link doesn't work, but I think it used to be in the Salt Lake area....

It's late, I'm tired, and I probably should not post this.  Meh.

[rant]

I'm tired of not being appreciated.  We say "Thanks to HRA, you can still own a handgun in this state.  Thanks to HRA, you can still own a .50 BMG in this state.  Thanks to HRA, you don't have to pay for your ammunition to be serial numbered.  Thanks to HRA, we now have Castle Law protecting you from both criminal and civil lawsuits in the event of self defense.  Thanks to HRA, your guns cannot legally be confiscated during an emergency.  HRA runs fun shoots for its members every month at Kokohead.  And HRA also organizes the Shooting Sports Fair every year" 

And what do we hear?  "Yeah, but..." 

Jesus Christ, would it kill anyone to say THANK YOU? ? 

[/rant]

Thank you. However, people don't have ESP. You want recognition for the great work that the HRA has done and continues to do, then you need to make that information readily available to the public.

Now, someone somewhere wanted a meet and greet.  I don't need much of excuse to go for a coffee, and even less of an excuse to go for a beer.  I'm available in the evenings Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays.  Weekends are also a possibility.   

Actually, screw that.  Monday, Oct 25, at or around 5:30 PM, I will be at the Varsity.  Look for a long ponytail, a beard, and an HRA t-shirt.  Introduce yourself, and your first round is on me.

I, too, am out of town until the 27th. But thanks for putting something out there for people to get together and actually meet.

- Alex

On a side note I have no idea how military can join the NRA for free --- please send me this information someone!!!

https://www.nra.org/supportourtroops/Default.aspx

- Alex

About the Military.
 
I'm old enough that the military did allow civilians to shoot on their ranges with out too many restrictions.
 
Now, things are very different.  I live just outside Kaneohe Marine Base and can hear the bugles and shooting.
 
30 years ago, i was able to scuba with the base club, don't know about now.
Still waiting for an invite to any of the base clubs for lunch, beer or just a base tour.
 
Back then, the Schofield Rod & Gun Club was very active in lots of activities.  Not so much now from what is being posted here.
Wheeler has a nice range, shot on that Once.  Is it still there?
Hickam even had a shotgun range, now where the F-15s park.
 
Like Tom and Hi Carry said, WE (HRA/NRA) NEED new Blood.  We do Need new members to take over what we started.
 
We'll be Happy to show you the political ropes.  Do you have the time to go door to door at the legislature and harangue them?
 
A lot of people take time off from work for that purpose.
 
You have something to say, We'll listen.  You want to meet us, come out on the 24th.  Most likely Tom G and Hi Carry will be there.
 
Me, depends on the Wife, she has cataract surgery today on her left eye.  Did her right eye 2 weeks ago.  IF she's OK about going
to shoot, then WE'll Both be there, now that she can actually see the target. 
 
Come early, help put the tent up, take out and set up tables and chairs..  A lot of times, the club will pay for drinks and pasteries.
 
Just met with Harvey before dropping the Wife off at Queen's, not sure if he'll be at the shoot.
 
If you and some of the guys want to have coffee some time, let me know.  Please make it in the Kaneohe or Kailua area. 
 
 

Oh I am so down for this. Varsity link doesn't work, but I think it used to be in the Salt Lake area....

http://www.varsityhonolulu.com/

The Varsity, or at least the one I'm going to, is in Puck's Alley, at the corner of University and King.  Maybe it was once in Salt Lake; today, it's in Kaimuki.  Hopefully that's less of a drive for you!

Their food is pretty good.  Well, y'know, for a bar. 

HRA does target the military. We, to a person, feel the service members deserve our respect and as much consideration for the sacrifices they make for us. That's why we give them a free membership.

That sounds peachy, but again...where on the HRA site does it say that? If a military member doesn't get a chance to go to the Funshoot due to operational/work commitments, then how are they supposed to know that they get free membership? As far as Average Joe Soldier can tell, he needs to pay $25 to become a member. I personally feel that $25 is more than fair, but again if they don't know that their money is going to be used effectively, then they will be hesitant to contribute. I think, perhaps, our idea of "targeting" military personnel is vastly different.

Why don't we do more active recruitment, well it again goes back to time, available personnel and money. Remember, everyone wants HRA to file a lawsuit, or take out adds, or any number of things to be more visible....well all of that takes effort and money. More active recruitment of the military meand diverting limited resources from other initiatives, with no ability to recoup costs.
...
The bottom line is we need members, but we also need those members to be more active in HRA activities. But again, your right, we could be more "visible" and I will make sure we start looking at the various items you mention. Know any good PR firms that will give a deal on a campaign? 
 
Let me know if you want to attend the meetings...members are always welcome and encouraged. Thanks for your input

I sent off my application and check today for my HRA membership. I realize that I don't have to pay, but clearly the extra money certainly can't hurt the HRA.
Could you do me a favor and start pulsing some of the HRA people that you know and see if they would be interested in creating a position of Military Recruitment "Czar" ( )? I realize that this would take an amendment to the By-Laws, which I'm willing to draft up. I also realize that a vote would be required, which I am of course happy with.

Thoughts?

EDIT TO ADD: No one has answered my question why the HRA meetings aren't posted anywhere on their site...this seems like a pretty significant reason for not getting nearly as much participation as you would like to see.

- Alex

EDIT TO ADD: No one has answered my question why the HRA meetings aren't posted anywhere on their site...this seems like a pretty significant reason for not getting nearly as much participation as you would like to see.

It probably comes down to lack of time, like most of the PR.

EDIT TO ADD: No one has answered my question why the HRA meetings aren't posted anywhere on their site...this seems like a pretty significant reason for not getting nearly as much participation as you would like to see.

Actually, the sole reason I haven't blurted it out since the first time the question was raised is that the meetings are held at a member's house.  I wanted to be fair to him and give him the option of saying "Well, maybe you should move the meeting to Denny's" before publicizing his address.  But I do agree that there's a lack of information, and HiCarry has promised me that he's already told our webmaster to get the meeting dates up on the website.

Honestly, we're not trying to be a secret society.  We really, REALLY want people to become involved!  As has already been demonstrated, we can't do it all, and could definitely use the help.