CRIMES COMMITTED BY CCW (Read 33211 times)

Heavies

Re: CRIMES COMMITTED BY CCW
« Reply #60 on: December 25, 2010, 10:10:33 AM »
Quote
I sure hope the majority of Police Officers in Hawaii do not have "Defend Hawaii's" attitude. What a sad statement as to the inner thinking's of a Law Enforcement Agency that would not screen that psychological profile out...

The HPD has a pretty rigorous screening process, so I'm told. And there are many who support. I wouldn't worry about it too much.

Antithesis

Re: CRIMES COMMITTED BY CCW
« Reply #61 on: December 25, 2010, 10:19:09 AM »
Yeah i am sure the Police Department wants more guns on the street.... Alot of you will never understand, that is why u hate me and what I stand for.  NO CCW in HAWAII!!!!!

Yep, law abiding citizens who take the time to go down to the police department, get a background check, get fingerprinted, get doctors' approval, then aply for their permits, wait several weeks and finally come back and register their guns... how dangerous these individuals are for law enforcement!   It's like they're saying, "here I am, this is where I live, and these are the guns I have and this is proof I am sane and able to have them!"  And if you think law enforcement should be afraid of people like that, then you sir have no buisness in law enforcement.   :rofl:

I for one do not hate you; I just feel very sorry for you and whatever slanted upbringing that prevents you from seeing logic and reason.  I think you've proven a better argument for better public education, rather than anything anti-CCW.   You've been intellectually manhandled in this thread, yet you keep coming back.  Kudos to you for beind the debate-practice-dummy.  :thumbsup:
« Last Edit: December 25, 2010, 10:32:52 AM by Antithesis »
"Si vis pacem, para bellum"
If you wish for peace, prepare for war

Defend Hawaii

Re: CRIMES COMMITTED BY CCW
« Reply #62 on: December 25, 2010, 11:46:54 AM »
Yeah i am sure the Police Department wants more guns on the street.... Alot of you will never understand, that is why u hate me and what I stand for.  NO CCW in HAWAII!!!!!

Yep, law abiding citizens who take the time to go down to the police department, get a background check, get fingerprinted, get doctors' approval, then aply for their permits, wait several weeks and finally come back and register their guns... how dangerous these individuals are for law enforcement!   It's like they're saying, "here I am, this is where I live, and these are the guns I have and this is proof I am sane and able to have them!"  And if you think law enforcement should be afraid of people like that, then you sir have no buisness in law enforcement.   :rofl:

I for one do not hate you; I just feel very sorry for you and whatever slanted upbringing that prevents you from seeing logic and reason.  I think you've proven a better argument for better public education, rather than anything anti-CCW.   You've been intellectually manhandled in this thread, yet you keep coming back.  Kudos to you for beind the debate-practice-dummy.  :thumbsup:


I find no evidence that counties with above-average rates of
gun ownership within CCW states experienced larger declines in crime
than low-ownership counties did, suggesting either that gun owners did
not increase the frequency with which they carried their guns or that
criminals were not deterred by the greater likelihood that their victims
would be armed. These findings weaken the claim that CCW legislation
could plausibly have reduced violent crime rates.


Oh there i go cutting and pasting again... :rofl:

Really guys there is no proof on this.  I see apples u see oranges. 

I do know that Hawaii is a safe place to live WITHOUT CCW PERMITS.

U can cut and paste that to the bank!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :thumbsup:
"I am not in favor of concealed weapons. I think that creates a potential
atmosphere where more innocent people could (get shot during) altercations."
-- Barack Obama, April 2008

Antithesis

Re: CRIMES COMMITTED BY CCW
« Reply #63 on: December 25, 2010, 01:22:13 PM »
I do know that Hawaii is a safe place to live WITHOUT CCW PERMITS...

Quote from: Defend Hawaii
...Except for randomn acts of violence (uesugi, Mau Gofredo, ewa beach stabbing) violent life threatening crimes do not really happen.


Uhuh, "safe" unless you happen to be a victim of one of those guys or any other psychopath with the intent to kill, right?  Be sure to wash your feet every time you post in this thread so you won't have that funky taste when you put your foot in your mouth.  :thumbsup: 
"Si vis pacem, para bellum"
If you wish for peace, prepare for war

Alex Europa

Re: CRIMES COMMITTED BY CCW
« Reply #64 on: December 25, 2010, 03:58:15 PM »
Yeah i am sure the Police Department wants more guns on the street.... Alot of you will never understand, that is why u hate me and what I stand for.  NO CCW in HAWAII!!!!!

Cute soundbite, too bad it's not supported by facts. "A (2001) survey released Friday by the National Association of Chiefs of Police finds that over 60 percent of the nation's police chiefs and sheriffs favor a national system allowing law-abiding citizens to carry concealed firearms." (1)


I find no evidence that counties with above-average rates of
gun ownership within CCW states experienced larger declines in crime
than low-ownership counties did, suggesting either that gun owners did
not increase the frequency with which they carried their guns or that
criminals were not deterred by the greater likelihood that their victims
would be armed. These findings weaken the claim that CCW legislation
could plausibly have reduced violent crime rates.


Actually, this IS the case...here is a perfect example from Washington D.C. and the surrounding counties.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/31/AR2009123103039.html

This article provides interesting data for two points: 1) areas with strict gun control laws typically have a significantly greater violent crime rate than surrounding less-regulated areas, and 2) that the Heller ruling by the SCOTUS to eliminate the handgun ban apparently played a part in SIGNIFICANTLY lowering the murder rate.

Just sayin'.

- Alex

References:
(1) http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/581314/posts
Americans don't retreat...they reload!

"It's just natural to want to shoot someone when you don't agree with them" - Joan Peterson, Million Mom March Chapters’ national representative to the Board of Directors of the Brady Campaign

Alex Europa

Re: CRIMES COMMITTED BY CCW
« Reply #65 on: December 25, 2010, 04:29:39 PM »
Oops, forgot this part...

I do know that Hawaii is a safe place to live WITHOUT CCW PERMITS.

Too bad the overall violent and property crime rates are up (to include: forcible rape, aggravated assault, and larceny-theft). (1) Furthermore, 100% of the violent crime of Hawaii occurs in Honolulu, which is in the 61% rank nationally. In other words, 60% of the nation's cities have a violent crime rate lower than Honolulu. (2) You can call that safe if you want to, but for an island completely isolated from the mainland, I would say that a 61% ranking is pretty terrible.

- Alex

References:
(1) http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/hicrime.htm
(2) http://www.homesurfer.com/crimereports/view/crime_report.cfm?state=HI&area=Honolulu
Americans don't retreat...they reload!

"It's just natural to want to shoot someone when you don't agree with them" - Joan Peterson, Million Mom March Chapters’ national representative to the Board of Directors of the Brady Campaign

Defend Hawaii

Re: CRIMES COMMITTED BY CCW
« Reply #66 on: December 29, 2010, 08:58:43 PM »
* Edited for plagiarization -2aHawaii

« Last Edit: December 30, 2010, 09:49:03 AM by 2aHawaii »
"I am not in favor of concealed weapons. I think that creates a potential
atmosphere where more innocent people could (get shot during) altercations."
-- Barack Obama, April 2008

Defend Hawaii

Re: CRIMES COMMITTED BY CCW
« Reply #67 on: December 29, 2010, 08:59:42 PM »
* Edited for plagiarization -2aHawaii


« Last Edit: December 30, 2010, 09:49:15 AM by 2aHawaii »
"I am not in favor of concealed weapons. I think that creates a potential
atmosphere where more innocent people could (get shot during) altercations."
-- Barack Obama, April 2008

Defend Hawaii

Re: CRIMES COMMITTED BY CCW
« Reply #68 on: December 29, 2010, 09:01:12 PM »
* Edited for plagiarization -2aHawaii

« Last Edit: December 30, 2010, 09:49:33 AM by 2aHawaii »
"I am not in favor of concealed weapons. I think that creates a potential
atmosphere where more innocent people could (get shot during) altercations."
-- Barack Obama, April 2008

Defend Hawaii

Re: CRIMES COMMITTED BY CCW
« Reply #69 on: December 29, 2010, 09:02:11 PM »
* Edited for plagiarization -2aHawaii

« Last Edit: December 30, 2010, 09:50:22 AM by 2aHawaii »
"I am not in favor of concealed weapons. I think that creates a potential
atmosphere where more innocent people could (get shot during) altercations."
-- Barack Obama, April 2008

Defend Hawaii

Re: CRIMES COMMITTED BY CCW
« Reply #70 on: December 29, 2010, 09:04:15 PM »
* Edited for plagiarization -2aHawaii

« Last Edit: December 30, 2010, 09:50:34 AM by 2aHawaii »
"I am not in favor of concealed weapons. I think that creates a potential
atmosphere where more innocent people could (get shot during) altercations."
-- Barack Obama, April 2008

Defend Hawaii

Re: CRIMES COMMITTED BY CCW
« Reply #71 on: December 29, 2010, 09:07:00 PM »
* Edited for plagiarization -2aHawaii


« Last Edit: December 30, 2010, 09:50:45 AM by 2aHawaii »
"I am not in favor of concealed weapons. I think that creates a potential
atmosphere where more innocent people could (get shot during) altercations."
-- Barack Obama, April 2008

Alex Europa

Re: CRIMES COMMITTED BY CCW
« Reply #72 on: December 29, 2010, 11:08:02 PM »
See, here's the cute thing about your posts: you didn't provide any references. All you did was just quote some arbitrary article. Therefore, no one is able to go and validate (or invalidate) the claims provided. Furthermore, I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you didn't do any fact checking on the garbage that you listed. For instance, the statistic which states "nation’s gun violence epidemic – which kills more than 30,000" is a misrepresentation of the facts; in reality, over half of those incidents are suicides, which means that the gun was the instrument, not the cause. Japan, by the way, has a suicide rate over DOUBLE ours here in the United States (1), however they have very strict gun control laws; if the guns are the problem, shouldn't Japan's suicide rate be much lower than ours? Anyways, the real number of gun-violence related deaths in 2005, for example, was 11,346. (2) In 2009, the FBI estimated that up to 80% of all crime is gang-related (3) (unfortunately, there is a significant reporting issue when it comes to gang-related violence). While there is no data to support it, I don't feel that saying that 50% of gun homicides are gang related is a very big stretch of the imagination. That would leave us with around 6,000 non-suicide/non-gang related gun deaths each year. Not a good number, but certainly not 30,000. Additionally, the stat about 3,000 Texas CCW permit holders committing crime is also a misrepresentation because they count guys like the Ft. Hood shooter in their statistics (he reportedly held a Virginia concealed carry permit). There are 2 problems with this 1) concealed carry permit holders (military or civilian) cannot carry on military installations...they are just another "Gun Free Zone" (read: Criminal Empowerment Zone), so he was already breaking the law and 2) he's a psychopath. The fact that he was a concealed carry permit holder is completely irrelevant in this discussion, because it IN NO WAY enabled him to commit mass murder. There is no magical force field that got turned off by him holding a CCW permit; he broke the law by bringing the gun on base to begin with...he would have done so even if he did not have a permit. Furthermore, what does child pornography have to do with concealed carry permit holders? Does their CCW permit enable them to be sickos and look at kiddie porn? Would keeping concealed carry out of Hawaii in any way lessen the number of perverts in Hawaii? No. Are all CCW holders perfect "law-abiding citizens?" No. But quoting numbers of crimes committed by CCW permit holders than are not gun-related artificially inflates the numbers; kind of like what I said in the other post about anti-2a people lying and spreading misinformation to further their agenda.

By the way, what you just did is called PLAGIARISM in the academic world and will not only earn you a failing grade, but will probably get you expelled from school. I'm not going to sift through the nether-regions of the internet (read: anti-2a propaganda) to refute your points one-by-one. I already DISproved the point that CCW does not reduce crime in an earlier post; and I just did it with two of "your" new points as an example of how flawed your arguments are; unless you're willing to provide links to legitimate sources (e.g., FBI UCR, the DOJ, etc...) to back your statistics, they really don't hold any weight in my opinion.

- Alex

References:
(1) http://www.who.int/mental_health/prevention/suicide/suiciderates/en/
(2) http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/nij/topics/crime/gun-violence/
(3) http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2009/february/ngta_020609
Americans don't retreat...they reload!

"It's just natural to want to shoot someone when you don't agree with them" - Joan Peterson, Million Mom March Chapters’ national representative to the Board of Directors of the Brady Campaign

vooduchikn

Re: CRIMES COMMITTED BY CCW
« Reply #73 on: December 30, 2010, 12:05:50 AM »
Well said Alex. Just another example of ignorance, lack of knowledge, and bias.
Relax, I've banned myself..

2aHawaii

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Re: CRIMES COMMITTED BY CCW
« Reply #74 on: December 30, 2010, 09:53:49 AM »
DH, I've removed all your posts because they were direct copies from another site without any of your own content. Please refrain from doing that and posting multiple posts back to back. Just stick it all in one.

If anybody is interested in reading the quotes, they can be found on the concealed guns procon website under the con side.
I am not a lawyer.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." - United States Constitution Amendment 2 & Hawaii State Constitution Article 1 Section 17

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