2aHawaii
General Topics => General Discussion => Topic started by: ibuytoys on November 06, 2011, 11:04:13 AM
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Federal agent from mainland arrested for killing man in Waikiki
By Star-Advertiser staff
POSTED: 08:28 a.m. HST, Nov 05, 2011
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This photo from Linkedin shows Chris Deedy, a foreign service agent for the U.S. Department of State. Deedy was an Industry analyst in the International Price Program at the Bureau of Labor and Statistics for three years and has BA in Economics from Tulane University.
A U.S. State Department law enforcement agent from the mainland was arrested for fatally shooting a man in his 20s early this morning on Kuhio Avenue in Waikiki, sources said.
Honolulu police identified the alleged shooter as Christopher W. Deedy, 27, and sources who asked to remain anonymous confirmed that he is a federal agent who was off-duty at the time of the shooting. The victim was identified by family and friends as Kaneohe resident Kollin K. Elderts, 23, a Kalaheo High School graduate.
A State Department spokeswoman in Washington, D.C., said only, "We are aware of the incident and we cannot comment on an ongoing investigation."
She would not confirm whether he was here for the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation conference which begins Tuesday.
But Deedy's LinkedIn web page identifies him as a special agent working for the Bureau of Diplomatic Security at the State Department and from the Washington D.C. area.
According to the State Department's website the bureau is responsible for providing a safe and secure environment for the conduct of U.S. foreign policy. President Barack Obama and 20 other world leaders are expected to attend the APEC Leaders' Meeting next weekend.
Police say the shooting happened in front of the McDonald's restaurant on Kuhio Avenue between Royal Hawaiian and Seaside avenues just before 3 a.m. The victim is 23, and is a Hawaii resident, police said.
Deedy was identified and arrested a short distance away at 2234 Kuhio Ave. at 3 a.m. He was being held pending a second-degree murder charge, according to police.
Police said initial indications are that the suspect and the victim, a man in his 20s believed to be a Hawaii resident, did not know each other. The victim's identity has not yet been released.
Police said four males got into a confrontation and the victim sustained a single gunshot wound. Paramedics took him in critical condition to a hospital, where he died.
Deedy had not been charged as of this afternoon.
His LinkedIn page says he is graduate of Tulane University in New Orleans who worked as an economist with the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics before joining the State Department in June 2009.
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Federal agent arrested in fatal shooting
A Kailua man is dead after the incident at a Waikiki McDonald's
By Gordon Y.K. Pang and Michael Tsai
Star-Advertiser
POSTED: 01:30 a.m. HST, Nov 06, 2011
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DENNIS ODA / DODA@STARADVERTISER.COM
The McDonald's restaurant on Kuhio Avenue remained closed Saturday after an early-morning fatal shooting. The suspect, a 27-year-old federal agent, is in custody.
A U.S. State Department law enforcement agent from the mainland was arrested early Saturday on suspicion of fatally shooting a Windward Oahu man at the Kuhio Avenue McDonald's in Waikiki.
Honolulu police identified the alleged shooter as Christopher W. Deedy, 27, and sources who asked to remain anonymous confirmed that he is a federal agent who was off-duty at the time of the incident. The victim was identified by family and friends as Kailua resident Kollin K. Elderts, 23, a Kalaheo High School graduate.
State Department officials refused to confirm that Deedy was here in connection with the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation conference that begins Tuesday. His LinkedIn web page identifies him as a special agent working in the Washington, D.C., area for the department's Bureau of Diplomatic Security. According to the department's website, the bureau is responsible for providing a safe and secure environment for the conduct of U.S. foreign policy.
Reached in Washington Saturday night, a State Department spokeswoman said only, "We are aware of the incident and we cannot comment on an ongoing investigation."
The incident marks an inauspicious start for what Hawaii leaders had been hoping will be a boom week for the state and Waikiki, where many of the key APEC events are being held. President Barack Obama and the leaders of 20 other Asian-Pacific nations are attending, along with an estimated 20,000 others.
Police said the shooting happened in front of the McDonald's restaurant at 2237 Kuhio Ave. between Royal Hawaiian and Seaside avenues just before 3 a.m.
Deedy was identified and arrested a short distance away at 2234 Kuhio Ave. at 3 a.m. He was being held Saturday pending a second-degree murder charge, according to police.
Police said initial indications are that Deedy and Elderts did not know each other.
Police said four males got into a confrontation and the victim suffered a single gunshot wound. Paramedics took him to the Queen's Medical Center, where he was pronounced dead.
Deedy had not been charged as of Saturday night and was at the main police cell block on South Beretania Street.
His LinkedIn page says he is a graduate of Tulane University in New Orleans who worked as an economist with the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics before joining the State Department in June 2009. The page also describes him as an agent with the Diplomatic Security Service, part of the State Department's Bureau of Diplomatic Security.
The bureau, on its website, says DSS agents conduct fraud investigations involving passports, visas and other travel documents.
In an interview online as an alumnus of the Fund for American Studies, Deedy described himself as a special agent assigned to the Washington field office, with two primary duties: criminal investigations and working on personal protection details.
"A typical day in the first capacity varies and could entail performing records checks, conducting surveillance, executing an arrest warrant, or a number of other activities," Deedy said in the interview, posted Oct. 11, 2010. "Working a protection detail varies as well, and could range from liaison activities with visiting foreign delegations to escorting foreign dignitaries throughout the city in a secure motorcade."
YELLOW CRIME TAPE blocked off the entrance to the normally crowded McDonald's, which is usually open 24 hours a day and is one of the few places late-night visitors to Waikiki can have a cheap bite before going home after a night of partying. Signs on the front doors said it would reopen for business today.
Keo Evans, a bartender at Lojax at Kuhio and Seaside, said he was just leaving work when he heard two or three shots, and then screaming, coming from the McDonald's.
A man wearing a collared shirt ran from the restaurant, heading in the Ewa direction, Evans said. Inside McDonald's, Evans said, a man was holding on to the victim, trying to keep him from collapsing.
"There was already a big crowd of people out there (in front of McDonald's)," Evans said, noting that was unusual. Usually the early-morning action in the neighborhood occurs one block Diamond Head in front of the Waikiki Trade Center, notorious for fights after bars and discos in the building close, he said.
Chuck Crowell, who is renting a unit at the Royal Kuhio vacation condominium across from the McDonald's, said he was lying down in his room when he heard, "Pow! Pow! Then a pause. Then pow again."
Robert Hackney, owner of the Tiki Tattoo shop next to McDonald's, said he was shocked to learn there was a killing next door.
"We've never had any trouble at all on our block," Hackney said. "The other block down is where you have fights and stuff."
Outside Elderts' Kuaaina Way house Saturday night, about two dozen young men gathered to remember their fallen friend. Stunned and angry, they stood in the front yard and exchanged what scant information they had about the incident over beers and blasting reggae.
"The (expletive) haole wen' kill Kollin," said one young man who declined to identify himself. "That's what happened."
"The family is really hurting right now," one friend said. "Everybody is hurting."
The assembled friends and family declined further comment.
Across the street, neighbor Darlene Fangon, a lifelong resident of Kuaaina Way, recalled how she and Elderts exchanged greetings each morning as they left for work.
"He was a good kid," Fangon said. "The whole family was really friendly. They never bothered anybody."
Fangon said Elderts' parents recently moved to Hawaii island and that Elderts remained at the house with a brother.
"It's so unfortunate, so sad," Fangon said. "I had tears in my eyes when my mother told me about it."
Shane Harada, a neighbor who graduated from Kalaheo High School a few years before Elderts, described Elderts as a "nice guy" and said he couldn't imagine Elderts being involved in such a tragic situation.
"It's messed up," Harada said. "I would never have imagined something like this."
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Star-Advertiser reporters Craig Gima and Rob Shikina also contributed to this report.
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Not every haole is a defenseless civilian willing to roll over and take a beating when confronted by a group of thugs. There are a lot of Fed LE all over the islands that match the military/tourist description.
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imo, that is why hawaii needs CCW. if everyone knew that everyone could be strapped at all times, these random confrontations would not happen. Perfect case of "fkʻing with the wrong guy."
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Without knowing all the details, its hard to make judgements one way or the other.
Was it over reacting by someone with a gun?
Was the LEO's life in danger?
I'm interested in the fine details of this situation.
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^ I agree.
Seems like The other posters in this thread know more than us and believe it's the deceased fault. Maybe they'd care to share more details/video
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I wasn't there so I obviously don't know what happened, but IMO...
"The (expletive) haole wen' kill Kollin," said one young man who declined to identify himself. "That's what happened."
that statement gives me a good idea of what the suspect was facing when the incident went down. If he wasn't carrying it would have been just another incident of a visitor getting beat up in Waikiki.
imo, that is why hawaii needs CCW. if everyone knew that everyone could be strapped at all times, these random confrontations would not happen. Perfect case of "fkʻing with the wrong guy."
+1
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Yeah a lot of middle information seems to be missing.
I wonder if it was 1 on 1 and he was getting his ass kicked and decided to shoot or if he was getting mobbed
What i find odd is no one is saying anything about what happened, not even his friends that were there with him, any witness' that were there that evening. No one. Also hear conflicting stories about the agent, some places say he was arrested on scene trying to perform first aid, another says he was found a couple blocks away.
Also makes me wonder if "anyone" recieved "cultural training" about Hawaii. I know people are pro 2a or whatever, but undoubtdly local boy status come meet me outside and lets settle this.
Not defending anyone or anything but i see that as a possibility. Local boy all buss calling out a security guard/cop/federal agent/other mokes, with the "oh you think you bad cause you get one gun and badge" action.
None the less it should be interesting to see how this plays out. Like posted above, CCW would level everything out.
Oh news said charges are pending. KITV4
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Just found out about this from the vics friends...tragic. Was looking to get some more details here, looks like we all got wait and see. I did hear that the shooter was not involved in the fight that ended with this.
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http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/15972354/attorney-victims-family-claims-fatal-confrontation-began (http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/15972354/attorney-victims-family-claims-fatal-confrontation-began)
sad day all around
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looks like he's been charged with murder
http://www.khon2.com/news/local/story/Special-agent-charged-with-murder-in-connection/6PeAxN9R70inTl2s4kKLwQ.cspx (http://www.khon2.com/news/local/story/Special-agent-charged-with-murder-in-connection/6PeAxN9R70inTl2s4kKLwQ.cspx)
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the usual round about of he was a good boy and was never gonna hurt anybody from the victims family.
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Obviously I have no more information than the next guy, but I'm putting my money on a not-guilty verdict. He's a college graduate, working security details for the State Department. Unless he went completely off the deep end, this will end up being a legitimate case of self defense. I'd sure like those surveillance tapes to get leaked to youtube, though, so we could see for ourselves!
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I would like to know what firearms charge he got hit with. Because he is State Department, I am less likely to believe he just 'went off the deep'. Those guys are usually pretty damn squared away, in fact, most Feds are pretty straight forward. I would love to see the video recordings as well. There was also a knife recovered at the scene from what I read... whose though is the question.
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I would like to know what firearms charge he got hit with. Because he is State Department, I am less likely to believe he just 'went off the deep'. Those guys are usually pretty damn squared away, in fact, most Feds are pretty straight forward. I would love to see the video recordings as well. There was also a knife recovered at the scene from what I read... whose though is the question.
This is the first I heard about a knife, that's quite interesting. I agree with you about him going off the deep end; what I meant by that was that he's well trained and has probably received all kinds of psychological evaluations-this guy isn't some Bubba who got hisself a gun and was looking to dish out some white-hot street justice, so if this wasn't a fully justified shoot, the only explanation is that he went off the deep end.
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I would like to know what firearms charge he got hit with. Because he is State Department, I am less likely to believe he just 'went off the deep'. Those guys are usually pretty damn squared away, in fact, most Feds are pretty straight forward. I would love to see the video recordings as well. There was also a knife recovered at the scene from what I read... whose though is the question.
This is the first I heard about a knife, that's quite interesting. I agree with you about him going off the deep end; what I meant by that was that he's well trained and has probably received all kinds of psychological evaluations-this guy isn't some Bubba who got hisself a gun and was looking to dish out some white-hot street justice, so if this wasn't a fully justified shoot, the only explanation is that he went off the deep end.
The other possibility is that he was intoxicated. To me, it doesn't matter who you are: drinking and guns don't mix.
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The other possibility is that he was intoxicated. To me, it doesn't matter who you are: drinking and guns don't mix.
That's a possibility (nothing good happens after midnight), but I think it's rather unlikely that he was drinking while carrying, for all the previously mentioned reasons. +1 on the drinking and guns, though.
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I think one large issue that needs to be addressed is why did these guys all meet up at McDonalds? If this started earlier at a club, then who followed whom into McDonalds?
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On the radio this morning, it was rumor that the agent followed the local guy to McDonald's from the club.
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^ I agree.
Seems like The other posters in this thread know more than us and believe it's the deceased fault. Maybe they'd care to share more details/video
Im making an experience based assumption that the local boys thought they had an easy target and learned the hard way; if Im wrong I apologize in advance. This is something that we will have to wait and see what develops, since he is officially being charged with murder unlike the other fed who shot the guy at Tantalus a year or so ago, it makes you wonder what exactly happened.
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No sense in speculating. The arguments on both sides are endless. Give it some time and the facts will be made known. The only thing that you can conclude from what information is currently out there is that there are two tragedies; one resulting in the loss of son, a brother and a friend, and other resulting in trials and tribulations for years to come for the survivor, no matter what the outcome.
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I think one large issue that needs to be addressed is why did these guys all meet up at McDonalds?
Because the McRib is back!
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I think one large issue that needs to be addressed is why did these guys all meet up at McDonalds?
Because the McRib is back!
MMMMmmmm scrumptious barbecue goodness.
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I think one large issue that needs to be addressed is why did these guys all meet up at McDonalds?
Because the McRib is back!
MMMMmmmm scrumptious barbecue goodness.
Do they serve that early in the AM? As of yet I have never partaken of the McRib.
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On the radio this morning, it was rumor that the agent followed the local guy to McDonald's from the club.
Agent is boned.
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On the radio this morning, it was rumor that the agent followed the local guy to McDonald's from the club.
Agent is boned.
Rumors don't hold water in court, facts do.
Everything you are hearing/seeing in the papers is speculation.
Ever heard of the word "spin"?
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I'm thinking this story is more popular because of the recent protests against the government and wall street. It's just right up the current media frenzy alley. I mean hard to deny that since we are all worried about "What APEC" will do to the people, what the government will do to protestors etc.
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^^^This. Also, for those who haven't yet tried the off-topic McRib, don't. That sh!t is disgusting. They press some pork through a seive and then smash it into a loose approximation of some short ribs. [PUKE]. Sorry, I'm done. :stopjack:
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^^^This. Also, for those who haven't yet tried the off-topic McRib, don't. That sh!t is disgusting. They press some pork through a seive and then smash it into a loose approximation of some short ribs. [PUKE]. Sorry, I'm done. :stopjack:
I just heard from a Burger King rep that was posting online anonymously as a clown car limo driver, who happened to be working in the area that night that a Mcrib was indeed found at the scene.
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Lol at some of you guys stereotyping. Pretty pathetic imo. Not looking too good for the agent since he was charged. Details being kept all hush hush makes me wonder too.
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Lol at some of you guys stereotyping. Pretty pathetic imo. Not looking too good for the agent since he was charged. Details being kept all hush hush makes me wonder too.
I read nothing into the fact that he's been charged. Lots and lots of people get charged with crimes they didn't commit, and an even higher percentage of self-defense shooters get charged. Time will tell.
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AN indictment is NOT a conviction. I'm reserving my opinions until the facts are revealed........on the individuals as well as the legal system in Hawaii........and the "Golden Messiah's" potential involement in the outcome of it all (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v457/tyggrr65/Gifs/popc1.gif)
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On the radio this morning, it was rumor that the agent followed the local guy to McDonald's from the club.
Agent is boned.
Rumors don't hold water in court, facts do.
Everything you are hearing/seeing in the papers is speculation.
Ever heard of the word "spin"?
I would like to think that facts win out in court, but that is not always the case. Hopefully the information gets better once the security tapes are pulled.
I wonder if the State Dept will try and suppress the tapes or if they will serve up their boy (with APEC so near, it could be extremely embarrassing to the Fed).
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I too would like to see the Surveillance videos
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News just said that he posted bail.
A knife was found at the scene.
He was intoxiacted
Gov. made a statement.
State made a statement too
And more is added to the Plot!
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On the radio this morning, it was rumor that the agent followed the local guy to McDonald's from the club.
Agent is boned.
Rumors don't hold water in court, facts do.
Everything you are hearing/seeing in the papers is speculation.
Ever heard of the word "spin"?
I agree. When I said the word rumor, it was a strategic choice. All we can really do is wait for clarification!
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News just said that he posted bail.
A knife was found at the scene.
He was intoxiacted
Gov. made a statement.
State made a statement too
And more is added to the Plot!
Where's the links?
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Dont got was just typing as they were talking, KITV4. Let me see if i can go find it.
Ah cant find one. Will try and look again later tonight
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www.hawaiireporter.com/conflicting-storiestold-about-waikiki-shooting/123 (http://www.hawaiireporter.com/conflicting-storiestold-about-waikiki-shooting/123)
I wish they'd just release the tapes.
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Lol at some of you guys stereotyping. Pretty pathetic imo. Not looking too good for the agent since he was charged. Details being kept all hush hush makes me wonder too.
I read nothing into the fact that he's been charged. Lots and lots of people get charged with crimes they didn't commit, and an even higher percentage of self-defense shooters get charged. Time will tell.
This is true. Was the agent who shot the guy up tantalus charged/taken into custody?
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Wow.
Too bad he didn't just scare the dude with his gun. Hard to say though cause we don't know all the details.
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Wouldn't this be bizarre if this was a ploy by the government to be another anti-gun thing. Especially against CCW.
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Wouldn't this be bizarre if this was a ploy by the government to be another anti-gun thing. Especially against CCW.
The media seems to be taking the story in this direction from the start.
Security tapes...?
Bad for all parties involved. The truth won't come out until the trial.
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Lol at some of you guys stereotyping. Pretty pathetic imo. Not looking too good for the agent since he was charged. Details being kept all hush hush makes me wonder too.
I read nothing into the fact that he's been charged. Lots and lots of people get charged with crimes they didn't commit, and an even higher percentage of self-defense shooters get charged. Time will tell.
This is true. Was the agent who shot the guy up tantalus charged/taken into custody?
Heres the link...
http://www.khon2.com/mostpopular/story/FBI-gives-update-on-Tantalus-shooting/3DGmWIqBIkCQgFykM4kOTg.cspx (http://www.khon2.com/mostpopular/story/FBI-gives-update-on-Tantalus-shooting/3DGmWIqBIkCQgFykM4kOTg.cspx)
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Wow.
Too bad he didn't just scare the dude with his gun. Hard to say though cause we don't know all the details.
In regards to carrying concealed, nobody should even know you are doing so until you need to use it. Brandishing can turn into terroristic threatening really quick.
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Lol at some of you guys stereotyping. Pretty pathetic imo. Not looking too good for the agent since he was charged. Details being kept all hush hush makes me wonder too.
I read nothing into the fact that he's been charged. Lots and lots of people get charged with crimes they didn't commit, and an even higher percentage of self-defense shooters get charged. Time will tell.
This is true. Was the agent who shot the guy up tantalus charged/taken into custody?
Heres the link...
http://www.khon2.com/mostpopular/story/FBI-gives-update-on-Tantalus-shooting/3DGmWIqBIkCQgFykM4kOTg.cspx (http://www.khon2.com/mostpopular/story/FBI-gives-update-on-Tantalus-shooting/3DGmWIqBIkCQgFykM4kOTg.cspx)
So the agent wasn't charged or even put on admin leave. Thnx didn't read that article when I did a quick google
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Lol at some of you guys stereotyping. Pretty pathetic imo. Not looking too good for the agent since he was charged. Details being kept all hush hush makes me wonder too.
I read nothing into the fact that he's been charged. Lots and lots of people get charged with crimes they didn't commit, and an even higher percentage of self-defense shooters get charged. Time will tell.
This is true. Was the agent who shot the guy up tantalus charged/taken into custody?
Heres the link...
http://www.khon2.com/mostpopular/story/FBI-gives-update-on-Tantalus-shooting/3DGmWIqBIkCQgFykM4kOTg.cspx (http://www.khon2.com/mostpopular/story/FBI-gives-update-on-Tantalus-shooting/3DGmWIqBIkCQgFykM4kOTg.cspx)
So the agent wasn't charged or even put on admin leave. Thnx didn't read that article when I did a quick google
Very different situation.
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Wow.
Too bad he didn't just scare the dude with his gun. Hard to say though cause we don't know all the details.
Since there (effectively) is no CCW in Hawaii, te definition of "brandishing" would likely fall under "terroristic threatening". Both are generally grounds for losing ones CHL if one has one......in those states that issue.
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On the radio this morning, it was rumor that the agent followed the local guy to McDonald's from the club.
Agent is boned.
Rumors don't hold water in court, facts do.
Everything you are hearing/seeing in the papers is speculation.
Ever heard of the word "spin"?
I agree. When I said the word rumor, it was a strategic choice. All we can really do is wait for clarification!
Anybody else think it is irresponsible to be making inflamatory and unsubtantiated statements.......by the deceased attourney?
http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/20111108_Federal_agent_is_free_on_bail_as_details_of_shooting_emerge.html?1a (http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/20111108_Federal_agent_is_free_on_bail_as_details_of_shooting_emerge.html?1a)
Why isn't the local bar telling this guy to STFU? Or have things gotten SOOOOOO anti-haole since I left in '94 that THAT is all that matters?
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I think the attorney is trying to build up anti-haole sentiment before the trial - which would be a jury of people from Hawaii....No mourning period has passed and the family hired an attorney...What does that tell you????? :crazy: :(
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Lol at some of you guys stereotyping. Pretty pathetic imo. Not looking too good for the agent since he was charged. Details being kept all hush hush makes me wonder too.
I read nothing into the fact that he's been charged. Lots and lots of people get charged with crimes they didn't commit, and an even higher percentage of self-defense shooters get charged. Time will tell.
This is true. Was the agent who shot the guy up tantalus charged/taken into custody?
Heres the link...
http://www.khon2.com/mostpopular/story/FBI-gives-update-on-Tantalus-shooting/3DGmWIqBIkCQgFykM4kOTg.cspx (http://www.khon2.com/mostpopular/story/FBI-gives-update-on-Tantalus-shooting/3DGmWIqBIkCQgFykM4kOTg.cspx)
So the agent wasn't charged or even put on admin leave. Thnx didn't read that article when I did a quick google
Very different situation.
Agreed, with impersonating a LEO, you can bet HPD knew about the guy when they were on scene.
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On the radio this morning, it was rumor that the agent followed the local guy to McDonald's from the club.
Agent is boned.
Rumors don't hold water in court, facts do.
Everything you are hearing/seeing in the papers is speculation.
Ever heard of the word "spin"?
I agree. When I said the word rumor, it was a strategic choice. All we can really do is wait for clarification!
Anybody else think it is irresponsible to be making inflamatory and unsubtantiated statements.......by the deceased attourney?
http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/20111108_Federal_agent_is_free_on_bail_as_details_of_shooting_emerge.html?1a (http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/20111108_Federal_agent_is_free_on_bail_as_details_of_shooting_emerge.html?1a)
Why isn't the local bar telling this guy to STFU? Or have things gotten SOOOOOO anti-haole since I left in '94 that THAT is all that matters?
Lawyers being lawyers man. No the anit-haole sentiment isn't what the media/lawyer drums it up to be.
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A quick rundown of the facts as I understand them: Deedy and Elderts didn't meet until McDonald's. There was an altercation, three shots were fired by Deedy, and Elderts ended up dead. A bloody knife was recovered at the scene, and Deedy was performing CPR when police arrived.
Green explains it by saying that they had harsh words, Deedy kicked Elderts in the chest and knocked him down, Elderts came up fighting, and Deedy shot him. That story changed from the original story, which was presented as fact, that Deedy followed Elderts to McDonald's from the club. Apparently that story was based on plain old conjecture by the family of the deceased. There is no explanation for the knife at the scene.
According to the news, Deedy's three friends said that there was an altercation at McDonald's during which Elderts drew a knife. Deedy drew his pistol in response, and when Elderts failed to stop, shot him. That explanation checks with a bloody knife found at the scene: You're threatening me with a knife, and I shoot you in the chest. Where do your hands go? Straight to your chest, which is now bleeding profusely. Additionally, people who gun other people down like dogs for no reason rarely holster their weapon and immediately begin first aid. That's the sort of thing people do when they're well-trained CCW holders and feel they've made a fully justified shoot.
Eldert's side of the story is being told by an attorney who seems to widely reviled, and has already changed his story a number of times.
Deedy's side of the story is being reported apparently from the statements his friends made. Who are the three friends? I feel safe assuming that a State Department Special Agent on assignment would go out and check out the night life with coworkers, which indicates that the story is coming from three State Dept. employees.
Which story makes more sense? Which story explains the few established facts we know about?
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A quick rundown of the facts as I understand them: Deedy and Elderts didn't meet until McDonald's. There was an altercation, three shots were fired by Deedy, and Elderts ended up dead. A bloody knife was recovered at the scene, and Deedy was performing CPR when police arrived.
Green explains it by saying that they had harsh words, Deedy kicked Elderts in the chest and knocked him down, Elderts came up fighting, and Deedy shot him. That story changed from the original story, which was presented as fact, that Deedy followed Elderts to McDonald's from the club. Apparently that story was based on plain old conjecture by the family of the deceased. There is no explanation for the knife at the scene.
According to the news, Deedy's three friends said that there was an altercation at McDonald's during which Elderts drew a knife. Deedy drew his pistol in response, and when Elderts failed to stop, shot him. That explanation checks with a bloody knife found at the scene: You're threatening me with a knife, and I shoot you in the chest. Where do your hands go? Straight to your chest, which is now bleeding profusely. Additionally, people who gun other people down like dogs for no reason rarely holster their weapon and immediately begin first aid. That's the sort of thing people do when they're well-trained CCW holders and feel they've made a fully justified shoot.
Eldert's side of the story is being told by an attorney who seems to widely reviled, and has already changed his story a number of times.
Deedy's side of the story is being reported apparently from the statements his friends made. Who are the three friends? I feel safe assuming that a State Department Special Agent on assignment would go out and check out the night life with coworkers, which indicates that the story is coming from three State Dept. employees.
Which story makes more sense? Which story explains the few established facts we know about?
Unfortunately at this point we still don't know the facts. The reporters have just been regurgitating all the stories people have told them. No one has gone out and verified anything. Typical of Hawaii's "journalists." It's the same BS that goes on TV and in the papers, everyone just repeats what someone else has said.
Hopefully someone will go and pull those friggen security tapes. Hopefully then we'll be able to establish a basic line of events.
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A quick rundown of the facts as I understand them: Deedy and Elderts didn't meet until McDonald's. There was an altercation, three shots were fired by Deedy, and Elderts ended up dead. A bloody knife was recovered at the scene, and Deedy was performing CPR when police arrived.
Green explains it by saying that they had harsh words, Deedy kicked Elderts in the chest and knocked him down, Elderts came up fighting, and Deedy shot him. That story changed from the original story, which was presented as fact, that Deedy followed Elderts to McDonald's from the club. Apparently that story was based on plain old conjecture by the family of the deceased. There is no explanation for the knife at the scene.
According to the news, Deedy's three friends said that there was an altercation at McDonald's during which Elderts drew a knife. Deedy drew his pistol in response, and when Elderts failed to stop, shot him. That explanation checks with a bloody knife found at the scene: You're threatening me with a knife, and I shoot you in the chest. Where do your hands go? Straight to your chest, which is now bleeding profusely. Additionally, people who gun other people down like dogs for no reason rarely holster their weapon and immediately begin first aid. That's the sort of thing people do when they're well-trained CCW holders and feel they've made a fully justified shoot.
Eldert's side of the story is being told by an attorney who seems to widely reviled, and has already changed his story a number of times.
Deedy's side of the story is being reported apparently from the statements his friends made. Who are the three friends? I feel safe assuming that a State Department Special Agent on assignment would go out and check out the night life with coworkers, which indicates that the story is coming from three State Dept. employees.
Which story makes more sense? Which story explains the few established facts we know about?
Unfortunately at this point we still don't know the facts. The reporters have just been regurgitating all the stories people have told them. No one has gone out and verified anything. Typical of Hawaii's "journalists." It's the same BS that goes on TV and in the papers, everyone just repeats what someone else has said.
Hopefully someone will go and pull those friggen security tapes. Hopefully then we'll be able to establish a basic line of events.
Anything to bolster ratings.
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I think the attorney is trying to build up anti-haole sentiment before the trial - which would be a jury of people from Hawaii....No mourning period has passed and the family hired an attorney...What does that tell you????? :crazy: :(
Sovereign Nation of Hawaii or the Kingdom probably gave them one free of charge. :shaka:
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I think the attorney is trying to build up anti-haole sentiment before the trial - which would be a jury of people from Hawaii....No mourning period has passed and the family hired an attorney...What does that tell you????? :crazy: :(
Sovereign Nation of Hawaii or the Kingdom probably gave them one free of charge. :shaka:
Some more media spin.
Where is the lawyer getting his info again?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/8876976/US-State-Department-agent-on-assignment-in-Honolulu-charged-with-murder-in-McDonalds.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/8876976/US-State-Department-agent-on-assignment-in-Honolulu-charged-with-murder-in-McDonalds.html)
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I think the attorney is trying to build up anti-haole sentiment before the trial - which would be a jury of people from Hawaii....No mourning period has passed and the family hired an attorney...What does that tell you????? :crazy: :(
Sovereign Nation of Hawaii or the Kingdom probably gave them one free of charge. :shaka:
Some more media spin.
Where is the lawyer getting his info again?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/8876976/US-State-Department-agent-on-assignment-in-Honolulu-charged-with-murder-in-McDonalds.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/8876976/US-State-Department-agent-on-assignment-in-Honolulu-charged-with-murder-in-McDonalds.html)
I think the attorney is attempting to "poison" the minds of Hawaii residents by spreading these statements.
Should this go to a jury trial, someone might have read his comments and believed them as truth.
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^ WOW, now thats ridiculous.
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Re: "facts" I thought the guy was apprehended a few blocks away. I wish the police would give us more info.
if it was a legit shoot and the deceased was at fault im assuming they wouldnt be making us wait till after APEC to find out all the details.
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A quick rundown of the facts as I understand them: Deedy and Elderts didn't meet until McDonald's. There was an altercation, three shots were fired by Deedy, and Elderts ended up dead. A bloody knife was recovered at the scene, and Deedy was performing CPR when police arrived.
Green explains it by saying that they had harsh words, Deedy kicked Elderts in the chest and knocked him down, Elderts came up fighting, and Deedy shot him. That story changed from the original story, which was presented as fact, that Deedy followed Elderts to McDonald's from the club. Apparently that story was based on plain old conjecture by the family of the deceased. There is no explanation for the knife at the scene.
According to the news, Deedy's three friends said that there was an altercation at McDonald's during which Elderts drew a knife. Deedy drew his pistol in response, and when Elderts failed to stop, shot him. That explanation checks with a bloody knife found at the scene: You're threatening me with a knife, and I shoot you in the chest. Where do your hands go? Straight to your chest, which is now bleeding profusely. Additionally, people who gun other people down like dogs for no reason rarely holster their weapon and immediately begin first aid. That's the sort of thing people do when they're well-trained CCW holders and feel they've made a fully justified shoot.
Eldert's side of the story is being told by an attorney who seems to widely reviled, and has already changed his story a number of times.
Deedy's side of the story is being reported apparently from the statements his friends made. Who are the three friends? I feel safe assuming that a State Department Special Agent on assignment would go out and check out the night life with coworkers, which indicates that the story is coming from three State Dept. employees.
Which story makes more sense? Which story explains the few established facts we know about?
Unfortunately at this point we still don't know the facts. The reporters have just been regurgitating all the stories people have told them. No one has gone out and verified anything. Typical of Hawaii's "journalists." It's the same BS that goes on TV and in the papers, everyone just repeats what someone else has said.
Hopefully someone will go and pull those friggen security tapes. Hopefully then we'll be able to establish a basic line of events.
Anything to bolster ratings.
For sure. I like how the US calls the guys on the news "reporters," implying journalists whereas the Brits call their people "news readers," implying they read the news to you.......no implied actual investigation of events.
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I think the attorney is trying to build up anti-haole sentiment before the trial - which would be a jury of people from Hawaii....No mourning period has passed and the family hired an attorney...What does that tell you????? :crazy: :(
Sovereign Nation of Hawaii or the Kingdom probably gave them one free of charge. :shaka:
Some more media spin.
Where is the lawyer getting his info again?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/8876976/US-State-Department-agent-on-assignment-in-Honolulu-charged-with-murder-in-McDonalds.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/8876976/US-State-Department-agent-on-assignment-in-Honolulu-charged-with-murder-in-McDonalds.html)
Sounds like a mish mash of media out of here presented at three different times over the course of the past two days.
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Thats usually how it is, you can watch the 5o clock news and the 6o clock news and they will pretty much say the same thing.
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Re: "facts" I thought the guy was apprehended a few blocks away. I wish the police would give us more info.
if it was a legit shoot and the deceased was at fault im assuming they wouldnt be making us wait till after APEC to find out all the details.
I see the opposite: if this wasn't self defense, and they were going to have him drawn and quartered, they'd be trying us all about it to placate the kingdom folks. Either that or the wheels of justice grind slowly.
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Interestingly, the lawyer that the family of the victim hired to sue in a CIVIL suit (cha-ching!) has a long, long career as a criminal defense lawyer.
http://hawaiimostwanted.com/attorneymichaelgreenthedefenseneverrests.asp (http://hawaiimostwanted.com/attorneymichaelgreenthedefenseneverrests.asp)
Huh. How about that.
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Interesting, look at who's organizing marches making a big, big stink about this shooting:
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2011/11/08/police_knife_recovered_at_hawaii_shooting_scene (http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2011/11/08/police_knife_recovered_at_hawaii_shooting_scene)
Carolyn Hadfield, one of the organizers of the march, told the crowd through a megaphone that she was angered by the fact that Deedy was released on bail.
"He went free without even a requirement that he stay in Hawaii," she said. "It's emblematic of the power of protecting him and it's we the people that are going to have to be out there demanding justice or this will be swept under the rug."
Who's Carolyn Hadfield, you ask? Just a professional protester.
http://sweetness-light.com/archive/mother-sheehan-and-commies-in-hawaii (http://sweetness-light.com/archive/mother-sheehan-and-commies-in-hawaii)
It looks like everyone's crawling out of the woodworks to take advantage of this "opportunity".
Looks like she runs a Marxist bookstore: http://honoluluweekly.com/entertainment/2007/10/city-wise-10-17-2007/ (http://honoluluweekly.com/entertainment/2007/10/city-wise-10-17-2007/)
Oh, huh. Carolyn "volunteers" at the bookstore that she happens to be PRESIDENT of: http://www.manta.com/c/mmdmwh0/revolution-books (http://www.manta.com/c/mmdmwh0/revolution-books)
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I always wondered who "owned" Revolution Books
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Interesting, look at who's organizing marches making a big, big stink about this shooting:
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2011/11/08/police_knife_recovered_at_hawaii_shooting_scene (http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2011/11/08/police_knife_recovered_at_hawaii_shooting_scene)
Carolyn Hadfield, one of the organizers of the march, told the crowd through a megaphone that she was angered by the fact that Deedy was released on bail.
"He went free without even a requirement that he stay in Hawaii," she said. "It's emblematic of the power of protecting him and it's we the people that are going to have to be out there demanding justice or this will be swept under the rug."
Who's Carolyn Hadfield, you ask? Just a professional protester.
http://sweetness-light.com/archive/mother-sheehan-and-commies-in-hawaii (http://sweetness-light.com/archive/mother-sheehan-and-commies-in-hawaii)
It looks like everyone's crawling out of the woodworks to take advantage of this "opportunity".
Looks like she runs a Marxist bookstore: http://honoluluweekly.com/entertainment/2007/10/city-wise-10-17-2007/ (http://honoluluweekly.com/entertainment/2007/10/city-wise-10-17-2007/)
Oh, huh. Carolyn "volunteers" at the bookstore that she happens to be PRESIDENT of: http://www.manta.com/c/mmdmwh0/revolution-books (http://www.manta.com/c/mmdmwh0/revolution-books)
Was just about to read this article:
http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/20111109_Victim_in_Waikiki_shooting_deserves_justice_group_says.html?id=133519038 (http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/20111109_Victim_in_Waikiki_shooting_deserves_justice_group_says.html?id=133519038)
I first thought the picture being hoisted was of Marx, then realized it was Kollin..........whoops........
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I'm reserving judgment on the murder until more credible facts come out. Elderts could be an innocent victim, or he could be the instigator. He might have been a friendly local who just happened to make a joke at the wrong time at the wrong guy, or he could be a bully who thought he was going to beat up on a haole with his buddies and go home with a smile. Deedy could be someone who was caught in an unfortunate situation, or he could be a loose cannon. At this point, what anyone claims says more about the speaker than it does about the case.
BUT...I'm not waiting to roll my eyes at the opportunists making this about something other than what it is.
For the lawyer, it's a big, fat, payday. I get the feeling he's running around manipulating the press and pulling strings here and there. How much did he have to do with this march?
For the communists and pinkos, it's yet more facetime in front of cameras, and social coin to spend on their APEC protests.
For the angry locals, it's an excuse to make it about race.
For the angry haoles, it's an excuse to make it about race.
For the anti-gun crowd, well, you get the idea...
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I'm reserving judgment on the murder until more credible facts come out.
Freudian slip there?
Obviously you've made up your mind what this is.
I don't think it's a murder.
I think when all the dust settles, it will be called a justified shooting.
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I think when all the dust settles, it will be called a justified shooting.
i think so too.
The media has really blown the facts of the case all over the place. First they say no information is known, then they tell everybody what one guy said, and another guy stated, and the lawyer said this... Because of the whole APEC thing, everyone and their mother wants to get involved. Have you guys read the comment section under the article? rediculousness all over due to speculation.
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"Murder" was just careless word choice. If anything, I lean rather heavily toward justified homicide. But like I said, I'm waiting for more reliable facts to come out before making up my mind.
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"Murder" was just careless word choice. If anything, I lean rather heavily toward justified homicide. But like I said, I'm waiting for more reliable facts to come out before making up my mind.
:thumbsup:
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"Murder" was just careless word choice. If anything, I lean rather heavily toward justified homicide. But like I said, I'm waiting for more reliable facts to come out before making up my mind.
:thumbsup:
I was trying to hold out and wait for more information, but the more I think about it, the more I think that it was a justified shoot.
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The story that the family's lawyer's putting forth, that without any provocation, he just kicked the guy down and then shot him? Just doesn't seem very likely. If he were that off-balance emotionally, he most likely would not have the physical coordination to pull of that kind of martial arts feat. Though by all accounts, he fired three shots and hit once, and it sounds like, at close range.
The bloody knife is some major evidence.
Still waiting for facts...I just hope HPD doesn't mess this up somehow and end up with a hung jury. We need a full airing of facts and a fair trial.
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The story that the family's lawyer's putting forth, that without any provocation, he just kicked the guy down and then shot him? Just doesn't seem very likely. If he were that off-balance emotionally, he most likely would not have the physical coordination to pull of that kind of martial arts feat. Though by all accounts, he fired three shots and hit once, and it sounds like, at close range.
The bloody knife is some major evidence.
Still waiting for facts...I just hope HPD doesn't mess this up somehow and end up with a hung jury. We need a full airing of facts and a fair trial.
If this is done right, you should either get a plea on the case or it will never see the light of day, because prosecutors decided it was indeed a lawful shoot. Trials expend lots of resources that we don't currently have. It will just become about Haole v. Local. Do the cause no good; do the race relationships no good etc.
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Sometimes a person disrespects the wrong hombre.
Occassionally someone thinks they can mess with someone and unfortunately, this is the result.
My advice is STFU and walk away.
A big mouth and puffed up chest doesn't get you anywhere.
But some people need to learn this lesson the hard way.
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Highinthesierras wrote: We should count our blessings. If more mainland visitors were able to bring guns we would have many more shootings. The theft, harassment and other crimes we are so well known for tend to aggravate folks not used to them, and their reactions would be scary if armed.
on November 9,2011 | 06:48AMName: false
Comment:
That's from one of the news articles. People like this babbling idiot make me want to hang my head in shame for living here. Then it makes me want to pack my bags and head for the mainland. Is this guy/gal serious? Their concern is that if people were allowed to carry, their reaction to theft, harassment, or other crimes might be scary? Scary for who, you fraqqin' retard?
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Highinthesierras wrote: We should count our blessings. If more mainland visitors were able to bring guns we would have many more shootings. The theft, harassment and other crimes we are so well known for tend to aggravate folks not used to them, and their reactions would be scary if armed.
on November 9,2011 | 06:48AMName: false
Comment:
That's from one of the news articles. People like this babbling idiot make me want to hang my head in shame for living here. Then it makes me want to pack my bags and head for the mainland. Is this guy/gal serious? Their concern is that if people were allowed to carry, their reaction to theft, harassment, or other crimes might be scary? Scary for who, you fraqqin' retard?
I saw that comment, too, and I was going to post a reply to it, but the site wasn't working for me. :(
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Highinthesierras wrote: We should count our blessings. If more mainland visitors were able to bring guns we would have many more shootings. The theft, harassment and other crimes we are so well known for tend to aggravate folks not used to them, and their reactions would be scary if armed.
on November 9,2011 | 06:48AMName: false
Comment:
That's from one of the news articles. People like this babbling idiot make me want to hang my head in shame for living here. Then it makes me want to pack my bags and head for the mainland. Is this guy/gal serious? Their concern is that if people were allowed to carry, their reaction to theft, harassment, or other crimes might be scary? Scary for who, you fraqqin' retard?
I saw that comment, too, and I was going to post a reply to it, but the site wasn't working for me. :(
Yeah, I thought about it, but what I posted here was the most civil thing I could think of to post, so I decided to come here and vent, instead. :thumbsup:
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Highinthesierras wrote: We should count our blessings. If more mainland visitors were able to bring guns we would have many more shootings. The theft, harassment and other crimes we are so well known for tend to aggravate folks not used to them, and their reactions would be scary if armed.
on November 9,2011 | 06:48AMName: false
Comment:
That's from one of the news articles. People like this babbling idiot make me want to hang my head in shame for living here. Then it makes me want to pack my bags and head for the mainland. Is this guy/gal serious? Their concern is that if people were allowed to carry, their reaction to theft, harassment, or other crimes might be scary? Scary for who, you fraqqin' retard?
What an idiot. This has nothing to do with a regular citizens right to carry or CCW. LE already carry them here. The anti gunners can't use this to justify more laws, as this is in LE's field. I doubt that our state would have every Federal LE turn in their guns while on duty here. If we can't trust our own govt. to carry guns then what?
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Hey ren, your last sentence is EPIC
"if we can't trust our own gov't to carry guns, then what?"
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Hey ren, your last sentence is EPIC
"if we can't trust our own gov't to carry guns, then what?"
+1
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sounds like the agent was drinking. he refused breath test on the scene. that's a big no no.
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sounds like the agent was drinking. he refused breath test on the scene. that's a big no no.
Is it?
Whats your source? Links?
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:thumbsup:
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sounds like the agent was drinking. he refused breath test on the scene. that's a big no no.
From a legal standpoint, why would you ever give evidence to someone or consent to a search? I just don't see why someone would do that. It's not like it will help you in the future.
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Highinthesierras wrote: We should count our blessings. If more mainland visitors were able to bring guns we would have many more shootings. The theft, harassment and other crimes we are so well known for tend to aggravate folks not used to them, and their reactions would be scary if armed.
on November 9,2011 | 06:48AMName: false
Comment:
so i guess this guy thinks people in hawaii should just get used to crime and let it happen?
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No surprise here.
Elderts blood alcohol level was over the legal limit.
http://www.khon2.com/content/news/developingstories/story/City-medical-examiner-Shooting-victim-Kollin/4755VZErVkWyuHtiifrTRA.cspx (http://www.khon2.com/content/news/developingstories/story/City-medical-examiner-Shooting-victim-Kollin/4755VZErVkWyuHtiifrTRA.cspx)
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sounds like the agent was drinking. he refused breath test on the scene. that's a big no no.
From a legal standpoint, why would you ever give evidence to someone or consent to a search? I just don't see why someone would do that. It's not like it will help you in the future.
This.
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Bottom line this is Obama's fault not Geo Bush!
Deedy is Obama's boy.
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Bottom line this is Obama's fault not Geo Bush!
Deedy is Obama's boy.
^
This............................is a retarded comment.
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Bottom line this is Obama's fault not Geo Bush!
Deedy is Obama's boy.
^
This............................is a retarded comment.
This. Did all the military members switch from being Bush's boys to Obama's boys at inauguration time? Do people really make decisions in a deadly force encounter based on who's sitting behind the fancy desk in the round room?
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Bottom line this is Obama's fault not Geo Bush!
Deedy is Obama's boy.
^
This............................is a retarded comment.
This. Did all the military members switch from being Bush's boys to Obama's boys at inauguration time? Do people really make decisions in a deadly force encounter based on who's sitting behind the fancy desk in the round room?
I left active duty to keep from being "Obama's boy" only to become Eric Holder's boy...
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I left active duty to keep from being "Obama's boy" only to become Eric Holder's boy...
But at least you are an international arm's dealer now :P that is kind of cool!
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http://www.kitv.com/news/29741260/detail.html (http://www.kitv.com/news/29741260/detail.html)
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Did the whole second two thirds of that article sound irrelevant to anyone else? It's like they're reaching to find someway to make the agent look bad or the shooting unjustified.
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The article appeared to be painting a picture to lay blame on the State Dept.
Everyone is speculating on behalf of the deceased.
What if the agent was protecting a dignitary?
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Did the whole second two thirds of that article sound irrelevant to anyone else? It's like they're reaching to find someway to make the agent look bad or the shooting unjustified.
It is not irrelevant if your goal is to cast aspersion on the product of an allgedly deficient agency. This is the kind of "stuff" plaintiff's counsel would use to build his case against the agent. Looks like attorney Green is getting some help .
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Sure doesn't sound good, that's for sure.
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It's court room drama. However, there probably isn't very many agencies who aren't experiencing deficits, short falls, or training issues (currently). That doesn't mean the training said agent recieved was sub par or below quality. The same accusations could be said against HPD in its current state.
This lawyer is just playing the field as he should. He has changed his story like six times on what his "client" has done. They guy saw an opportunity for a multi-million dollar payoff (if the agent is wrong) if not, it was still good publicity for him.
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It's court room drama. However, there probably isn't very many agencies who aren't experiencing deficits, short falls, or training issues (currently). That doesn't mean the training said agent recieved was sub par or below quality. The same accusations could be said against HPD in its current state.
This lawyer is just playing the field as he should. He has changed his story like six times on what his "client" has done. They guy saw an opportunity for a multi-million dollar payoff (if the agent is wrong) if not, it was still good publicity for him.
More feed for the cattle.
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It's court room drama. However, there probably isn't very many agencies who aren't experiencing deficits, short falls, or training issues (currently). That doesn't mean the training said agent recieved was sub par or below quality. The same accusations could be said against HPD in its current state.
This lawyer is just playing the field as he should. He has changed his story like six times on what his "client" has done. They guy saw an opportunity for a multi-million dollar payoff (if the agent is wrong) if not, it was still good publicity for him.
Fortunately, attempting to poison the pool before all of the facts are out is a double edged sword. If done correctly, you establish your (favorable) side of the story in the minds of the public and generate public sentiment that affects the jury's perception of a set of facts. If done incorrectly, you lose credibility and come off sounding like a babbling idiot attempting to accomplish the former.
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Bottom line this is Obama's fault not Geo Bush!
Deedy is Obama's boy.
^
This............................is a retarded comment.
Thanks! I try hard.
I can still see Obama or some form of govt using this to take away our rights....
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Bottom line this is Obama's fault not Geo Bush!
Deedy is Obama's boy.
^
This............................is a retarded comment.
True, they're nobody's "boys".
They have a job to do, regardless of who their commander in chief is.
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Has anyone noticed that this story has dropped out of the news already?
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Thats usually how the news goes. Reports on something then never follows up on it or gives any more updates. Its more important for civilization to know stay out of waikiki and which roads will be closed
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Has anyone noticed that this story has dropped out of the news already?
there's no scandal to it so the "journalist" have nothing to report.
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The Agent has now been indicted.
http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/breaking/133996543.html (http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/breaking/133996543.html)
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Well that's not sounding good. I really, really, want to see the surveillance footage of the incident!
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The Agent has now been indicted.
http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/breaking/133996543.html (http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/breaking/133996543.html)
that article reeks of poor journalism. it's so confusing you can't tell which way it's leaning.
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The Agent has now been indicted.
http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/breaking/133996543.html (http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/breaking/133996543.html)
that article reeks of poor journalism. it's so confusing you can't tell which way it's leaning.
The fact that the commenters are all pissed off that Deedy's BAC hasn't been made public, and so far none of them have asked about the bloody knife indicates strongly which way the readers lean!
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The Agent has now been indicted.
http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/breaking/133996543.html (http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/breaking/133996543.html)
that article reeks of poor journalism. it's so confusing you can't tell which way it's leaning.
I don't know if I am interpreting wrong, but I think that the news should not 'lean' one way or the other. In that sense the article was great, it stated known facts.
I do think that the BAC for either of the guys involved is irrelevant to the case. They were not driving.
What needs to be divulged is the security camera footage and trustworthy witnesses, so that one can judge if self defense was, or was not justified.
I guess prosecution has evidence that self defense was not justified in this case.
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i was referencing to the whole media not having a bias in that article to be some kind of unintended error
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The fact that they are charging him with Murder 2, not Manslaughter or Negligent Homicide makes me think that this is the government's way of getting him acquitted. Now, I'm not a conspiracy theorist. In my opinion based on what's been reported, I don't think he's guilty of murder and I hope I'm right. I'm sick of mokes that cause trouble just because they feel they can or hate haoles because they were raised to believe that haoles and non Hawaiians in general took something away from them. I'm born and raised here, have lots of friends from all backgrounds. I'm only referring to a small percentage of locals with that kind of attitude.
Back on topic. I'm thinking if the prosecution charges him with M2, he gets tried and acquitted and no one can complain. If they charge him with negligent homicide and gets acquitted, there's a lot of 99%ers that have reason to protest. Not only that, he could actually be found guilty of neg. homicide.
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The fact that they are charging him with Murder 2, not Manslaughter or Negligent Homicide makes me think that this is the government's way of getting him acquitted. Now, I'm not a conspiracy theorist. In my opinion based on what's been reported, I don't think he's guilty of murder and I hope I'm right. I'm sick of mokes that cause trouble just because they feel they can or hate haoles because they were raised to believe that haoles and non Hawaiians in general took something away from them. I'm born and raised here, have lots of friends from all backgrounds. I'm only referring to a small percentage of locals with that kind of attitude.
Back on topic. I'm thinking if the prosecution charges him with M2, he gets tried and acquitted and no one can complain. If they charge him with negligent homicide and gets acquitted, there's a lot of 99%ers that have reason to protest. Not only that, he could actually be found guilty of neg. homicide.
Good point, didn't think that would/could happen. But damn, you're playing politics with someone's life
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I would have liked it better if he hadn't been indicted, but that's the way the cookie crumbles. On the other hand, and for what it's worth, grand juries hand down indictments at a rate of something like 98-99%.
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When I hear that word "haole", especially published in a newspaper, I get riled. That is NO different that other names that will get a racial riot started and I still cannot believe that a newspaper would publish something like that. If anything makes this place *not* paradise, it is that blatant racism.
Sorry, off the box... I have 2 Fed agents, one CIA, and one DEA person living in my neighborhood. People are people, and do silly things, but all of these guys seem VERY level headed. I could not imagine one of them drinking while carrying, especially hanging around a "known place of fights/trouble"? I know, I read the article, it was a block away from the "usual" trouble... a whole block. It is hard to make any jugdements but who knows, maybe he had his eye on the guy, ever watch the new Hawaii 5-0, lol?
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What's that saying about the word assume again?
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When I hear that word "haole", especially published in a newspaper, I get riled. That is NO different that other names that will get a racial riot started and I still cannot believe that a newspaper would publish something like that. If anything makes this place *not* paradise, it is that blatant racism.
Sorry, off the box... I have 2 Fed agents, one CIA, and one DEA person living in my neighborhood. People are people, and do silly things, but all of these guys seem VERY level headed. I could not imagine one of them drinking while carrying, especially hanging around a "known place of fights/trouble"? I know, I read the article, it was a block away from the "usual" trouble... a whole block. It is hard to make any jugdements but who knows, maybe he had his eye on the guy, ever watch the new Hawaii 5-0, lol?
Haole means foreign. Unfortunately many take it to mean white, even people who should know better.
Anyhow booze, especially in large quantities, just loosens up what is underneath the surface. Bad decisions all around.
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Haole means foreign. Unfortunately many take it to mean white, even people who should know better.
Anyhow booze, especially in large quantities, just loosens up what is underneath the surface. Bad decisions all around.
Haole litterally translates to "no soul" as Captain Cook and his crew were of pallid skin color when the Hawaiians first encountered them and that is how it appeared to them. Generally associated with "whites" as there are a number of coloquialisms associated with the many other ethnic groups now living in the islands.
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When I hear that word "haole", especially published in a newspaper, I get riled. That is NO different that other names that will get a racial riot started and I still cannot believe that a newspaper would publish something like that. If anything makes this place *not* paradise, it is that blatant racism.
Get over it.
People that whine about racism because they hear one word crack me up.
Hawaii is one of the most accepting of racial differences places in the world.
A place where, "haoles, borinqueys, popolos, manongs, kanakas, soles, pakes, japanee, and pochos" can all get along.
What I've noticed is that most people That get their panties in a bunch over the word "haole" are ignorant of the racial diversity and colloquialisms so common in Hawaii.
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when someone calls me haole i'm stoked because it's a reminder of where i live. no way I would ever want to move back to Wonderbreadland. i mean come on we get to laugh at all kinds of racist jokes here in mixed company and it's not a problem. try that anywhere else and the lawsuits would be piling up to the ceiling.
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There seems to be way to much emotional involvement with the outcome of this thing and we don't even know what happened yet. Let's check out those tapes first.
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There seems to be way to much emotional involvement with the outcome of this thing and we don't even know what happened yet. Let's check out those tapes first.
+1
There is no way enough info to draw any type of conclusion. It could be a clear cut case of self defense, or it could be a nut that got through the system and got a badge. With the amount of info available, no one can know one way or the other.
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When I hear that word "haole", especially published in a newspaper, I get riled. That is NO different that other names that will get a racial riot started and I still cannot believe that a newspaper would publish something like that. If anything makes this place *not* paradise, it is that blatant racism.
Sorry, off the box... I have 2 Fed agents, one CIA, and one DEA person living in my neighborhood. People are people, and do silly things, but all of these guys seem VERY level headed. I could not imagine one of them drinking while carrying, especially hanging around a "known place of fights/trouble"? I know, I read the article, it was a block away from the "usual" trouble... a whole block. It is hard to make any jugdements but who knows, maybe he had his eye on the guy, ever watch the new Hawaii 5-0, lol?
Really? He / She is not good at what they do.
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When I hear that word "haole", especially published in a newspaper, I get riled. That is NO different that other names that will get a racial riot started and I still cannot believe that a newspaper would publish something like that. If anything makes this place *not* paradise, it is that blatant racism.
Sorry, off the box... I have 2 Fed agents, one CIA, and one DEA person living in my neighborhood. People are people, and do silly things, but all of these guys seem VERY level headed. I could not imagine one of them drinking while carrying, especially hanging around a "known place of fights/trouble"? I know, I read the article, it was a block away from the "usual" trouble... a whole block. It is hard to make any jugdements but who knows, maybe he had his eye on the guy, ever watch the new Hawaii 5-0, lol?
Really? He / She is not good at what they do.
And why is this?
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When I hear that word "haole", especially published in a newspaper, I get riled. That is NO different that other names that will get a racial riot started and I still cannot believe that a newspaper would publish something like that. If anything makes this place *not* paradise, it is that blatant racism.
Sorry, off the box... I have 2 Fed agents, one CIA, and one DEA person living in my neighborhood. People are people, and do silly things, but all of these guys seem VERY level headed. I could not imagine one of them drinking while carrying, especially hanging around a "known place of fights/trouble"? I know, I read the article, it was a block away from the "usual" trouble... a whole block. It is hard to make any jugdements but who knows, maybe he had his eye on the guy, ever watch the new Hawaii 5-0, lol?
Really? He / She is not good at what they do.
most CIA now a days are just tech engineers not very many special operatives that the movies make them out to be.
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The Agent has now been indicted.
http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/breaking/133996543.html (http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/breaking/133996543.html)
that article reeks of poor journalism. it's so confusing you can't tell which way it's leaning.
I don't know if I am interpreting wrong, but I think that the news should not 'lean' one way or the other. In that sense the article was great, it stated known facts.
I do think that the BAC for either of the guys involved is irrelevant to the case. They were not driving.
What needs to be divulged is the security camera footage and trustworthy witnesses, so that one can judge if self defense was, or was not justified.
I guess prosecution has evidence that self defense was not justified in this case.
Most of the stuff our local paper prints as news should be printed under the Editorial section. The stuff the papers feed us is so blatantly slanted one way or another that it is repugnant.
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Get over it. People that whine about racism because they hear one word crack me up.
Hawaii is one of the most accepting of racial differences places in the world.
A place where, "haoles, borinqueys, popolos, manongs, kanakas, soles, pakes, japanee, and pochos" can all get along.
What I've noticed is that most people That get their panties in a bunch over the word "haole" are ignorant of the racial diversity and colloquialisms so common in Hawaii.
King, we can agree to disagree here if you like, but it is completely different. The military is a melting pot where all almost all races come together and work towards a common goal. Hawaii is not that way man, not in my experience. I believe I am far from ignorant about any of the above slang terms. I grew up in the racist south, where it was black v. white v. black, problems with mexicans, and on the gulf coast there are plenty of problems with w/b v Asian. The word Haole is generally a racist remark; although the total scope and use may be determined by the context of the sentence. If I ran around calling people chinks or gooks there would be outcry - no doubt. Just because you fail to see the discriminatory nature of the word or term doesn't mean it lacks one. In fact, the evidence clearly proves otherwise. Take a look at the comments section of Star Advertiser and you will clearly see the racial undertones of the term. Furthermore, there is certainly a racial tone in the "Kill Haole Day" that took place at many schools here. I have absolutely no reason to believe that my entire wife's family is full of liars and would tell me of stuff like this just to make **** up, especially her mother.
Haole is no different then nigger, chink, gook, moke, spick, wetback, cracker **Edit.. Thx Dregs *** /rollseyes ;) or any other term used in slang to identify a group of people or individuals.
Additionally, Hawaii is quite partial to age discrimination, especially among Japanese workers. This is a huge issue in the Navy Shipyard and is dealt with all the time. This place is far from an Island of Hugs and kisses bro.
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You forgot cracker!
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You silly haole.
Hahahaha :rofl:
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I'll ask some of my "haole" friends if they are offended by me calling them that. I honestly don't think they are. If my friends are offended, I will stop using that word. I think it's in the context of the way you use it. If I say to my caucasian friend, "you remember Mike? The haole guy that you met at the UH game?" vs. "you know what that dumb haole said?" are two totally different meanings. In my mind, that use of the word haole is no different than if you substitute it with Japanese in the previous two sentences.
However, I can see how some feel it is racist. I never use the word amongst people I don't know because of that.
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On a side note, I didn't know your wife was a local girl.
I guess that explains why she looks hapa. ( non derogatory colloquialism native to Hawaii to describe someone of mixed ethnicity)
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i mean come on we get to laugh at all kinds of racist jokes here in mixed company and it's not a problem. try that anywhere else and the lawsuits would be piling up to the ceiling.
I again disagree. It's all about how you know the person. If King called me haole, it wouldn't bother me. If a random guy walks up to me and starts talking haole this and haole that, well is entitled to his free speech. If you are a government official and do this, Houston, we have a problem (simply implying someone "is not from here" could get you in the weeds here).
There are double standards that apply in many places. Have you ever been in a mostly African American community where it is ok for a person of color to use a slang term but no one else? I've joked around with many people in the Navy who were from Mississippi and we had many of funny jokes, but it doesn't start out that way. Race can sometimes be funny (Chris Rock). Race can sometimes be a motivator of hate. Hawai'i is nothing special or different than any other place I have been. Having lived in many areas where I was the minority (Desert Hot Springs, CA, Jackson, MS) I can tell you, Hawaii is one of the worst places I have seen socially.
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I'll ask some of my "haole" friends if they are offended by me calling them that. I honestly don't think they are. If my friends are offended, I will stop using that word. I think it's in the context of the way you use it. If I say to my caucasian friend, "you remember Mike? The haole guy that you met at the UH game?" vs. "you know what that dumb haole said?" are two totally different meanings. In my mind, that use of the word haole is no different than if you substitute it with Japanese in the previous two sentences.
However, I can see how some feel it is racist. I never use the word amongst people I don't know because of that.
I guess being born and raised in Hawaii, I never think of it as being racism to describe someone as "that haole guy, or the popolo guy or the pake guy"
I mean I don't complain when people call me the handsome buggah. :rofl:
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On a side note, I didn't know your wife was a local girl.
I guess that explains why she looks hapa. ( non derogatory colloquialism native to Hawaii to describe someone of mixed ethnicity)
She is a portagee!
Your friends won't take offense to it (well probably shouldn't). Just like I said if King called me haole, because I know him and we have shot around together, I wouldn't be initially offended. But, if I am walking downtown and some guy bumped into me and was like "Ehhh, u f-ing haole." The context is a completely different "racial" tone.
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i mean come on we get to laugh at all kinds of racist jokes here in mixed company and it's not a problem. try that anywhere else and the lawsuits would be piling up to the ceiling.
I again disagree. It's all about how you know the person. If King called me haole, it wouldn't bother me. If a random guy walks up to me and starts talking haole this and haole that, well is entitled to his free speech. If you are a government official and do this, Houston, we have a problem (simply implying someone "is not from here" could get you in the weeds here).
There are double standards that apply in many places. Have you ever been in a mostly African American community where it is ok for a person of color to use a slang term but no one else? I've joked around with many people in the Navy who were from Mississippi and we had many of funny jokes, but it doesn't start out that way. Race can sometimes be funny (Chris Rock). Race can sometimes be a motivator of hate. Hawai'i is nothing special or different than any other place I have been. Having lived in many areas where I was the minority (Desert Hot Springs, CA, Jackson, MS) I can tell you, Hawaii is one of the worst places I have seen socially.
Part of the reason that the people that don't like caucasians (the ones that genuinely hate them) is because the general consensus is that the "haoles" stole the land from the Hawaiians.
I have traveled to many places myself and I honestly think Hawaii is a lot better as far as race relations go then almost everywhere else I've been. But I don't get called haole. If it makes anyone feel better, they can call me anything they'd like. I promise not to karate chop them in the ear.
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On a side note, I didn't know your wife was a local girl.
I guess that explains why she looks hapa. ( non derogatory colloquialism native to Hawaii to describe someone of mixed ethnicity)
She is a portagee!
Your friends won't take offense to it (well probably shouldn't). Just like I said if King called me haole, because I know him and we have shot around together, I wouldn't be initially offended. But, if I am walking downtown and some guy bumped into me and was like "Ehhh, u f-ing haole." The context is a completely different "racial" tone.
Shutup, no way, a genuine Portagee? Now I like her (and by default, you) even better.
I'll fly my Portuguese flag high, next time I see you guys. Haha
Bonus points if she can make "Vinha d’Alhos."
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http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/16070795/defense-attorney-federal-agent-charged-with-murder-acted-in-self-defense (http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/16070795/defense-attorney-federal-agent-charged-with-murder-acted-in-self-defense)
Looks like the surveillance footage will make or break the case
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When I hear that word "haole", especially published in a newspaper, I get riled. That is NO different that other names that will get a racial riot started and I still cannot believe that a newspaper would publish something like that. If anything makes this place *not* paradise, it is that blatant racism.
Get over it.
People that whine about racism because they hear one word crack me up.
Hawaii is one of the most accepting of racial differences places in the world.
A place where, "haoles, borinqueys, popolos, manongs, kanakas, soles, pakes, japanee, and pochos" can all get along.
What I've noticed is that most people That get their panties in a bunch over the word "haole" are ignorant of the racial diversity and colloquialisms so common in Hawaii.
i have to disagree on this. hawaii is very racist. i'm local, born and raised, and my husband is hoale as ever. if you look at the way we act from the point of view from someone that has been raised knowing that it's totally politically incorrect to say anything about race, then we have a very racist culture... and that's why they think we are so racist.
to us it appears the opposite because we make jokes of each race, including our own. we simply don't care what race anyone is, we always make fun of everyone... and in general, no one gets upset. but if you're not used to it and it's not acceptable, then like hvy said ppl start getting upset.
btw, i thought most ppl use olopops now days.
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Hey ren, your last sentence is EPIC
"if we can't trust our own gov't to carry guns, then what?"
I know it's a little late since I haven't read this thread in a couple days, but I think it still needs to be said:
Then you become the U.K. See what a cluster that place has become, and realize that's what some people here in the U.S. seem to want.
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http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/16070795/defense-attorney-federal-agent-charged-with-murder-acted-in-self-defense (http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/16070795/defense-attorney-federal-agent-charged-with-murder-acted-in-self-defense)
Looks like the surveillance footage will make or break the case
:stopjack:
That report also states that the 'other substances' that were being tested by a lab on the mainland came back as marijuana and cocaine.
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FWIW - a place is not racist, people are racist. Often times it is how things are perceived by people with regards to "racism." One person means nothing of it, but the other person goes wild and throws the racist card.
People need to lighten up because stupid things happen when people get that worked up. For me I'm not racist............well OK I really hate azzholes, but that's the biggest race that I hate.
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http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/16070795/defense-attorney-federal-agent-charged-with-murder-acted-in-self-defense (http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/16070795/defense-attorney-federal-agent-charged-with-murder-acted-in-self-defense)
Looks like the surveillance footage will make or break the case
:stopjack:
That report also states that the 'other substances' that were being tested by a lab on the mainland came back as marijuana and cocaine.
Coke, pot, and booze, it's a hell of a combination. Geez I'm surprised he didn't throw in some meth too.
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When someone calls me anything in the tones that are derogatory, it really makes no difference what you call that person. It amazes me that words like "portagee" and "haole" are simply used and you do not reallize how it sounds. Yeah, I'm in Hawaii, get over it. Still, this place is a STATE, whether you believe it, like it, or not. The rest of the states shove diversity down your throat and the fact that these words get used without a second thought is very confusing to someone who has had diversity literally shoved down your throat. It is wrong to call people words like those, ESPECIALLY when used in a negative connotation... and I have YET to hear the word "haole" in anything that was less than confrontational.
On a brighter note, I am always glad when something I type gets a good reaction from the readers. Hearing any/all comments does help to get a broader grasp of the overall status of the population. Believe me, I *am* trying to get over it - I love being here for the most part. Breaking out of the bubble that corporate America wants us all to live in is pretty overwhelming moving to a place like Hawaii... which, from what I gather, is more like the rest of the world. Take it easy on me, I'm learnin'!
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When someone calls me anything in the tones that are derogatory, it really makes no difference what you call that person. It amazes me that words like "portagee" and "haole" are simply used and you do not reallize how it sounds. Yeah, I'm in Hawaii, get over it. Still, this place is a STATE, whether you believe it, like it, or not. The rest of the states shove diversity down your throat and the fact that these words get used without a second thought is very confusing to someone who has had diversity literally shoved down your throat. It is wrong to call people words like those, ESPECIALLY when used in a negative connotation... and I have YET to hear the word "haole" in anything that was less than confrontational.
On a brighter note, I am always glad when something I type gets a good reaction from the readers. Hearing any/all comments does help to get a broader grasp of the overall status of the population. Believe me, I *am* trying to get over it - I love being here for the most part. Breaking out of the bubble that corporate America wants us all to live in is pretty overwhelming moving to a place like Hawaii... which, from what I gather, is more like the rest of the world. Take it easy on me, I'm learnin'!
My boss has told me more than once (and already once this week) that the difference between love and rape is in the presentation. Again how one takes things IMHO is what does or does not make something "racist."
Same goes for confrontation..........one guy has crappy hearing and raises his voice, the other guy hears the raised voice and thinks it's a challenge to him.....again it is to one person and is not to the other. Even if the human race was cloned you'd still have clones saying someone is getting preferential treatment.
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Blah blah haole blah blah moke. Thread getting off topic.
Deedys lawyer told staradvertiser that the bloody knife found on the scene was his clients. States his client used it to cut clothes to render aid
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I have stayed out of this post until today on purpose, but some comments, and more the way some have made this about race instead of what it really is, have me bothered a tad.
Having had a family member involved in a shooting in which two Mexican gang bangers were killed (not my family member), I was witness to all the exact same crap I have seen on the news/websites. The speculation of what happened, racist rhetoric, haole dis, moke that, etc that I see in the comments on the news "leaks" (because that is what they really are...PISS not facts), really doesn't surprise me. Both kids (and that is what they were, 19 and 21) were turning "turning their lives around" by smoking meth and then carjacking people.
Nobody will really know what actually went down that night because we will only get two sides of the story, the shooter via his lawyer and the angry pissed off family of the deceased via theirs.
The legal outcome really won't matter to anyone except SA Chris Deedy. It won't change any laws and won't affect the concealed carry that we do not have, shootings (justified and most often not) happen every single day.
It will not bring back the deceased, the family will not feel any better if SA Deedy gets convicted. If he gets off, they will go after him and everything he owns in a civil suit.
Those of you that are so ready to carry here in Hawaii and cast judgment on the media spin should take a look at the situation and wonder if you are ready to be SA Deedy, are you ready to risk the rest of your life in defense of it and possibly others? Do you have a lawyer? Does he have your back? What would the media say about YOU?
I know the answers to these questions when it comes to me, have you thought along these lines?
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When I hear that word "haole", especially published in a newspaper, I get riled. That is NO different that other names that will get a racial riot started and I still cannot believe that a newspaper would publish something like that. If anything makes this place *not* paradise, it is that blatant racism.
Sorry, off the box... I have 2 Fed agents, one CIA, and one DEA person living in my neighborhood. People are people, and do silly things, but all of these guys seem VERY level headed. I could not imagine one of them drinking while carrying, especially hanging around a "known place of fights/trouble"? I know, I read the article, it was a block away from the "usual" trouble... a whole block. It is hard to make any jugdements but who knows, maybe he had his eye on the guy, ever watch the new Hawaii 5-0, lol?
Really? He / She is not good at what they do.
most CIA now a days are just tech engineers not very many special operatives that the movies make them out to be.
Theyre hiring too, if I was a college nerd instead of a knuckle dragger with a GED Id be with the CIA or FBI doing something more complex than counting people in a confined area...
https://www.cia.gov/careers/opportunities/cia-jobs/index.html (https://www.cia.gov/careers/opportunities/cia-jobs/index.html)
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I have stayed out of this post until today on purpose, but some comments, and more the way some have made this about race instead of what it really is, have me bothered a tad.
Having had a family member involved in a shooting in which two Mexican gang bangers were killed (not my family member), I was witness to all the exact same **** I have seen on the news/websites. The speculation of what happened, racist rhetoric, haole dis, moke that, etc that I see in the comments on the news "leaks" (because that is what they really are...PISS not facts), really doesn't surprise me. Both kids (and that is what they were, 19 and 21) were turning "turning their lives around" by smoking meth and then carjacking people.
Nobody will really know what actually went down that night because we will only get two sides of the story, the shooter via his lawyer and the angry pissed off family of the deceased via theirs.
That just about sums it up.
The legal outcome really won't matter to anyone except SA Chris Deedy. It won't change any laws and won't affect the concealed carry that we do not have, shootings (justified and most often not) happen every single day.
It will not bring back the deceased, the family will not feel any better if SA Deedy gets convicted. If he gets off, they will go after him and everything he owns in a civil suit.
Those of you that are so ready to carry here in Hawaii and cast judgment on the media spin should take a look at the situation and wonder if you are ready to be SA Deedy, are you ready to risk the rest of your life in defense of it and possibly others? Do you have a lawyer? Does he have your back? What would the media say about YOU?
I know the answers to these questions when it comes to me, have you thought along these lines?
You just about summed it up and injected a dose of reality.
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I have stayed out of this post until today on purpose, but some comments, and more the way some have made this about race instead of what it really is, have me bothered a tad.
Having had a family member involved in a shooting in which two Mexican gang bangers were killed (not my family member), I was witness to all the exact same **** I have seen on the news/websites. The speculation of what happened, racist rhetoric, haole dis, moke that, etc that I see in the comments on the news "leaks" (because that is what they really are...PISS not facts), really doesn't surprise me. Both kids (and that is what they were, 19 and 21) were turning "turning their lives around" by smoking meth and then carjacking people.
Nobody will really know what actually went down that night because we will only get two sides of the story, the shooter via his lawyer and the angry pissed off family of the deceased via theirs.
That just about sums it up.
The legal outcome really won't matter to anyone except SA Chris Deedy. It won't change any laws and won't affect the concealed carry that we do not have, shootings (justified and most often not) happen every single day.
It will not bring back the deceased, the family will not feel any better if SA Deedy gets convicted. If he gets off, they will go after him and everything he owns in a civil suit.
Those of you that are so ready to carry here in Hawaii and cast judgment on the media spin should take a look at the situation and wonder if you are ready to be SA Deedy, are you ready to risk the rest of your life in defense of it and possibly others? Do you have a lawyer? Does he have your back? What would the media say about YOU?
I know the answers to these questions when it comes to me, have you thought along these lines?
^^FTFY, given that was the intent of your post.
-VOOD
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Theyre hiring too, if I was a college nerd instead of a knuckle dragger with a GED Id be with the CIA or FBI doing something more complex than counting people in a confined area...
https://www.cia.gov/careers/opportunities/cia-jobs/index.html (https://www.cia.gov/careers/opportunities/cia-jobs/index.html)
I'm a high-school dropout with a G.E.D. It won't hold you back.
On topic though, that was interesting that the knife was Deedy's. I wonder how long till they release the videos? The families attorney did file a civil suit alleging excessive use of force. I knew this was coming, and as Mr. Farkpointed out, his media spin will either work for him in the tune of millions of against him. However, I am surprised they went after Deedy himself and not the DSS. I think the later would have scored more money in the long run. A self-defense verdict will be important for the outcome of his civil case.
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I have stayed out of this post until today on purpose, but some comments, and more the way some have made this about race instead of what it really is, have me bothered a tad.
Having had a family member involved in a shooting in which two Mexican gang bangers were killed (not my family member), I was witness to all the exact same **** I have seen on the news/websites. The speculation of what happened, racist rhetoric, haole dis, moke that, etc that I see in the comments on the news "leaks" (because that is what they really are...PISS not facts), really doesn't surprise me. Both kids (and that is what they were, 19 and 21) were turning "turning their lives around" by smoking meth and then carjacking people.
Nobody will really know what actually went down that night because we will only get two sides of the story, the shooter via his lawyer and the angry pissed off family of the deceased via theirs.
That just about sums it up.
The legal outcome really won't matter to anyone except SA Chris Deedy. It won't change any laws and won't affect the concealed carry that we do not have, shootings (justified and most often not) happen every single day.
It will not bring back the deceased, the family will not feel any better if SA Deedy gets convicted. If he gets off, they will go after him and everything he owns in a civil suit.
Those of you that are so ready to carry here in Hawaii and cast judgment on the media spin should take a look at the situation and wonder if you are ready to be SA Deedy, are you ready to risk the rest of your life in defense of it and possibly others? Do you have a lawyer? Does he have your back? What would the media say about YOU?
I know the answers to these questions when it comes to me, have you thought along these lines?
^^FTFY, given that was the intent of your post.
-VOOD
Thanks. Damn iphone doesn't work very well at posting message after putting away two pitchers of Stella Artois at Mai Tais. Meant to say that after the entire post but somehow it got stuck in the middle of your post.
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Theyre hiring too, if I was a college nerd instead of a knuckle dragger with a GED Id be with the CIA or FBI doing something more complex than counting people in a confined area...
https://www.cia.gov/careers/opportunities/cia-jobs/index.html (https://www.cia.gov/careers/opportunities/cia-jobs/index.html)
I'm a high-school dropout with a G.E.D. It won't hold you back.
On topic though, that was interesting that the knife was Deedy's. I wonder how long till they release the videos? The families attorney did file a civil suit alleging excessive use of force. I knew this was coming, and as Mr. Fart (lol) pointed out, his media spin will either work for him in the tune of millions of against him. However, I am surprised they went after Deedy himself and not the DSS. I think the later would have scored more money in the long run. A self-defense verdict will be important for the outcome of his civil case.
Didn't bother to check but I'm willing to bet that the good ole' US of A is a co-defendant in the suit. News just didn't bother to state that.
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Hrm, Yeah ill try and pacer a complaint but it will take a day or two for it to come out.
Tried a few searches, was this a State complaint? Pretty sure if you take on the fed's you need to bring it to district court no?
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Hrm, Yeah ill try and pacer a complaint but it will take a day or two for it to come out.
Tried a few searches, was this a State complaint? Pretty sure if you take on the fed's you need to bring it to district court no?
My guess is that it would be filed in the Federal District Court given the nature of the alleged wrongful acts of Deedy and the Government and the parties involved. Subject matter jurisdiction is conferred on the Federal Courts if there is complete diversity of citizenship between the plaintiff(s) and defendants and the amount in controversy exceeds $75,000.
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Not sure if this is really info from an HPD officer, but as I was told the agent was trying to prevent Elderts from starting a fight inside Mcdonalds with 2 other patrons at which point he took deedy to the floor and in the ensuing scuffle deedy shot him through the chest while lying on his back.
While it seems more logical than some of the early news reports I'll remain skeptical until hard evidence is presented as the stories presented still vary wildly.
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Not sure if this is really info from an HPD officer, but as I was told the agent was trying to prevent Elderts from starting a fight inside Mcdonalds with 2 other patrons at which point he took deedy to the floor and in the ensuing scuffle deedy shot him through the chest while lying on his back.
While it seems more logical than some of the early news reports I'll remain skeptical until hard evidence is presented as the stories presented still vary wildly.
Not likely imo, three shots fired and one went into the ceiling. I would certainly wager that the victim was standing, and deedy discharged the gun quickly after the draw.
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Was it really just a scuffle? Oh the suspense is killing me!
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I imagine there, will be some medical reports to verify some of this. But just a scuffle doesn't leave your nose broken. However Deedy really just looks drunk in my lay-witness opinion of observing lots of DUI mugshots lol. His nose dose look crooked, but I would think that there would be some busted blood vessels in his eye regions as well.
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Theyre hiring too, if I was a college nerd instead of a knuckle dragger with a GED Id be with the CIA or FBI doing something more complex than counting people in a confined area...
https://www.cia.gov/careers/opportunities/cia-jobs/index.html (https://www.cia.gov/careers/opportunities/cia-jobs/index.html)
I'm a high-school dropout with a G.E.D. It won't hold you back.
FBI told me to get a degree, didnt try the CIA because I have no technical skills unless theyre looking for helicopter mechanics. On the other hand, BOP just requires you can count, which is usually within my ability.
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re: mug shot pic who wouldn't look thrashed at 4AM or whatever time the pic was and after an evening like that? sad story all around either way. may the truth set us all free. show the vid show the vid show the vid
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Got some inside info. Deedy was trying to prevent a fight that Elderts started. He asked him to stop and Elderts false cracked Deedy.
Deedy did not draw his weapon at this point. Only what happens next is why he drew his weapon and fired.
Let me know when you find out how many priors Elderts has. I was shocked.
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What does false cracked mean?
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false crack has no warning, just comes out of nowhere. it's not like a sucker punch where they walk up from behind but more like a 'shoulda seen that coming in retrospect' kind of a punch. Come to think of it I haven't seen a lot of people pushing and getting in each others faces here. They someone usually says 'what?!' and they start swinging.
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It used to be one of the best things about Hawaii growing up.
No bullshit pushing and shoving.
Just good old fashioned punch you in the face until someone drops.
Not anymore. :(
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Oh, I see. Speedtek, your post makes out sound like there was something that may have happened other than a normal drunk fight to make Deedy draw. I'll bite: what happened next? I'll find out how many priors Elderts has I guess when the media tells me, no inside dope for me.
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Oh, I see. Speedtek, your post makes out sound like there was something that may have happened other than a normal drunk fight to make Deedy draw. I'll bite: what happened next? I'll find out how many priors Elderts has I guess when the media tells me, no inside dope for me.
Off the top of my head, couple misdemeanor offenses including DUI and I think drunk and disorderly.
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Why 3 shots again? A buddy of mine told me he cracked off 2 warning shots... any training I've ever had we clear - you draw, you shoot til the threat goes away. There is no warning shots. Those shots could go off and hit an innocent bystander, you NEVER throw lead unless there is no alternative. Now there is news of a scuffle, maybe they were attempts, but misses...?
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Why 3 shots again? A buddy of mine told me he cracked off 2 warning shots... any training I've ever had we clear - you draw, you shoot til the threat goes away. There is no warning shots. Those shots could go off and hit an innocent bystander, you NEVER throw lead unless there is no alternative. Now there is news of a scuffle, maybe they were attempts, but misses...?
I've been working under the assumption from the start that they were missed attempts. If Deedy was blowing off warning shots, the only possible explanation would be that he was shit-faced.
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Elderts friends were getting ready to jump in. Elderts jumped on Deedy
And he felt threatened so that when he drew. There was a struggle. The media is
Over speculating as hell. It sucks that the whole story can't be told
Yet. Like u guys assumed his nose is broken.
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What does false cracked mean?
Kinda like sucker punched.
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I'm not buying your story speedtek. Im sure you trust your inside guy but Sounds like more rumors and speculation than facts to me.
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That's up to you. I not trying to be a winner here.
Just saying what I was told from credible sources.
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What does false cracked mean?
Ha ha ha ha ha.............sorry man I had to laugh. It's a pretty common term in Hawaii like the others are saying.
Usually it's like this................some guy walks up to another guy........"Wot"............and right there..........false crack, or just falsed...........not to be confused with a slap fight...............
Water Slap Fight ! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2Z-L7d5jc0#)
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Like I said I'm sure your guy is an honest guy but who knows how many people the story went through before it got to him. Right off the back sounds very biased and then supposedly elderts friends were just about to jump in? Sounds like your guy still thinks there was more than one guy with elderts. Early reports said there was three guys with elderts and deedy was assumed to be by himself. The latest reports have elderts with only one friend and deedy with 2 buddies and two girls. Does your friend have anything to say about how deedys friend got 'slashed'?
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murdered victim was on drugs!
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Sources were both LEO. Biased? hmmm probably.
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murdered victim was on drugs!
Yes, Elderts was on drugs; we have yet to determine if he is a victim or an assailant, and whether a murder or a justified shooting is what took place.
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murdered victim was on drugs!
Yes, Elderts was on drugs; we have yet to determine if he is a victim or an assailant, and whether a murder or a justified shooting is what took place.
True. We also don't know if Deedy was under the influence of any drugs either since he refused a blood test. I wonder why the tape is being withheld for so long.
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murdered victim was on drugs!
Yes, Elderts was on drugs; we have yet to determine if he is a victim or an assailant, and whether a murder or a justified shooting is what took place.
True. We also don't know if Deedy was under the influence of any drugs either since he refused a blood test. I wonder why the tape is being withheld for so long.
The breathalyzer refusal has been debated at length on a number of news reports' comments section. My theory is that he refused based on Massad Ayoob's advice to provide police with the rough sketch of what happened (He attacked me, I shot him), point out pertinent evidence, point out witnesses, and then tell them they'll have your full cooperation in 24 hours, after you've had a chance to speak with an attorney. Also, aside from the much-ballyhooed breathalyzer refusal, I'll be shocked if HPD is so incompetent that they didn't obtain a warrant for a blood test, (which would make the error-prone breathalyzer a moot point) and I'm highly interested in the results. From what I've gathered from the prosecution/defense lawyers, nothing is being released at least until the discovery phase is complete. I want to see that video very badly, as well!
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Do they teach ayoob stuff in their training or are you just guessing. If you're just guessing that's quite a stretch imo
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Do they teach ayoob stuff in their training or are you just guessing. If you're just guessing that's quite a stretch imo
I don't know what they teach at DSS, but Massad Ayoob is one of the foremost experts in training both civilians and law enforcement, so it's a virtual certainty that if his formal training didn't cover it, he would have encountered Mr. Ayoob's teachings on the internet.
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You're giving them way too much credit. I know hpd that don't even know what kinda gun they carry and could care less about guns. Ive heard a federal policeman talk about how his co-workers didn't even know how to clear a gun, left the mag in and couldn't figure out why rounds kept coming out when he worked the slide. I've seen military armorers have negligent discharges because they didn't properly clear a pistol. I could go on and on. You can't assume just because someone carries that they know about stuff you know about. I'd be willing to bet there more gun owners who don't know who ayoob is then owners that do
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You're giving them way too much credit. I know hpd that don't even know what kinda gun they carry and could care less about guns. Ive heard a federal policeman talk about how his co-workers didn't even know how to clear a gun, left the mag in and couldn't figure out why rounds kept coming out when he worked the slide. I've seen military armorers have negligent discharges because they didn't properly clear a pistol. I could go on and on. You can't assume just because someone carries that they know about stuff you know about. I'd be willing to bet there more gun owners who don't know who ayoob is then owners that do
You're right that a lot of gun owners don't know Massad Ayoob, a lot of cops and military are idiots, etc, but those cops that don't know which end the bullets come out of and the gun owners who haven't heard of Ayoob probably aren't carrying concealed when they're off-duty. I would respectfully submit that if a guy has a CCW, and hasn't done enough reading to have come across Ayoob, they're unprepared and need to get serious about the fact that they're walking around with a loaded gun strapped on.
Here's a link to what I was referring to: Massad Ayoob in Guns & Ammo (http://www.gunsandammo.com/2011/05/26/video-after-a-real-shooting)
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You're giving them way too much credit. I know hpd that don't even know what kinda gun they carry and could care less about guns. Ive heard a federal policeman talk about how his co-workers didn't even know how to clear a gun, left the mag in and couldn't figure out why rounds kept coming out when he worked the slide. I've seen military armorers have negligent discharges because they didn't properly clear a pistol. I could go on and on. You can't assume just because someone carries that they know about stuff you know about. I'd be willing to bet there more gun owners who don't know who ayoob is then owners that do
Who exactly is "them"
There are idiots everywhere. HPD has more than it's share of them as do all police forces and the military.
I don't think cougar was assuming anything. If you carry, you should know what to do and what NOT to do if you are involved in a shoot.
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If you read his post then my post I think it's pretty clear who I'm referring to. Just because you think people should do something doesn't mean that they need to or will. I think every adult male should know how to change their cars oil, tire, etc. Does that mean they have to or should I assume they do? Not at all
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Here's a link to what I was referring to: Massad Ayoob in Guns & Ammo (http://www.gunsandammo.com/2011/05/26/video-after-a-real-shooting)
that's valuable advice. thanks.
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If you read his post then my post I think it's pretty clear who I'm referring to. Just because you think people should do something doesn't mean that they need to or will. I think every adult male should know how to change their cars oil, tire, etc. Does that mean they have to or should I assume they do? Not at all
By them I am guessing you were generalizing at LEO, but then you mention Military armorers as well.
I'm not going to keep this broken record going about what people should or shouldn't do or who assumes what. You can do what ever you like as can everyone else. It is up to the individual to be informed and educated.
I definitely do not assume that HPD knows half of what they should. Most gun owners are not responsible or educated when it comes to the firearms. A little observation at Kokohead can prove that real quick.
DSS doesn't hire uneducated people. The police and military do.
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Here's a link to what I was referring to: Massad Ayoob in Guns & Ammo (http://www.gunsandammo.com/2011/05/26/video-after-a-real-shooting)
that's valuable advice. thanks.
:shaka:
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You're giving them way too much credit. I know hpd that don't even know what kinda gun they carry and could care less about guns. Ive heard a federal policeman talk about how his co-workers didn't even know how to clear a gun, left the mag in and couldn't figure out why rounds kept coming out when he worked the slide. I've seen military armorers have negligent discharges because they didn't properly clear a pistol. I could go on and on. You can't assume just because someone carries that they know about stuff you know about. I'd be willing to bet there more gun owners who don't know who ayoob is then owners that do
You're right that a lot of gun owners don't know Massad Ayoob, a lot of cops and military are idiots, etc, but those cops that don't know which end the bullets come out of and the gun owners who haven't heard of Ayoob probably aren't carrying concealed when they're off-duty. I would respectfully submit that if a guy has a CCW, and hasn't done enough reading to have come across Ayoob, they're unprepared and need to get serious about the fact that they're walking around with a loaded gun strapped on.
Here's a link to what I was referring to: Massad Ayoob in Guns & Ammo (http://www.gunsandammo.com/2011/05/26/video-after-a-real-shooting)
I'm with pj on this one. HPD is required to carry a lot of the time. Many of them do not know firearms, nor are they really interested. To them firearms are just something that comes along with the job and much like filling out some paperwork, they just tolerate them because they have to.
I would hope that the standards for the Fed is higher than HPD, but I've also heard that HPD's training goes beyond a lot of what mainland departments do. Pretty scary when you think about the guys walking around in the mainland with badges and firearms.
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You're giving them way too much credit. I know hpd that don't even know what kinda gun they carry and could care less about guns. Ive heard a federal policeman talk about how his co-workers didn't even know how to clear a gun, left the mag in and couldn't figure out why rounds kept coming out when he worked the slide. I've seen military armorers have negligent discharges because they didn't properly clear a pistol. I could go on and on. You can't assume just because someone carries that they know about stuff you know about. I'd be willing to bet there more gun owners who don't know who ayoob is then owners that do
You're right that a lot of gun owners don't know Massad Ayoob, a lot of cops and military are idiots, etc, but those cops that don't know which end the bullets come out of and the gun owners who haven't heard of Ayoob probably aren't carrying concealed when they're off-duty. I would respectfully submit that if a guy has a CCW, and hasn't done enough reading to have come across Ayoob, they're unprepared and need to get serious about the fact that they're walking around with a loaded gun strapped on.
Here's a link to what I was referring to: Massad Ayoob in Guns & Ammo (http://www.gunsandammo.com/2011/05/26/video-after-a-real-shooting)
I'm with pj on this one. HPD is required to carry a lot of the time. Many of them do not know firearms, nor are they really interested. To them firearms are just something that comes along with the job and much like filling out some paperwork, they just tolerate them because they have to.
I would hope that the standards for the Fed is higher than HPD, but I've also heard that HPD's training goes beyond a lot of what mainland departments do. Pretty scary when you think about the guys walking around in the mainland with badges and firearms.
It's true enough that a lot of guys don't get the training they should. All I'm saying is that Deedy refused the on-scene breathalyzer for one of two reasons: he was drunk, or he had been trained on what Massad Ayoob and many others teach, either at work or on his free time. It could be either, but is assuming that a federal agent actually knew how to handle himself in the aftermath of a deadly force enounter so much more far-fetched than assuming that a federal agent decided to risk his career, life, and family in order to carry a firearm while drinking?
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While, its "massad ayoob", it's more - don't be a idiot and do what every single criminal defense attorney has told people since they existed lol. STFU and don't consent to searches.
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Far fetched? No. From my exp I'd lean more towards that he had drinks in his system. Did a google to see if ayoob had anything specifics about breathalyzer. Couldn't find it. I did find forums discussing it where atleast 2 people who subscribe to ayoobs stuff say that they would do the breathalyzer, and nobody argued with them from what I could see.
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Far fetched? No. From my exp I'd lean more towards that he had drinks in his system. Did a google to see if ayoob had anything specifics about breathalyzer. Couldn't find it. I did find forums discussing it where atleast 2 people who subscribe to ayoobs stuff say that they would do the breathalyzer, and nobody argued with them from what I could see.
This is a good discussion. The more I research, the more I think I'm going to decline a breathalyzer if I'm ever involved in a deadly force encounter.
...In all cases, exposing the sensor to any type of smoke or oxygen ion generator will produce false positive test results and inaccurate readings. This includes residual smoke in the lungs of a smoker and ambient smoke that may be present in the immediate area. Do not use an alcohol breath analyzer near any type of ion generator including popular air cleaners and central hvac electronic filtration systems. Smokers must wait a minimum 8-10 minutes after smoking to use a breathalyzer to insure that all residual smoke is absent from the lungs...
...In conclusion, users of electronic alcohol breath analysis devices should not expect accuracy rates equivalent to precisely controlled laboratory results using flow meter or gas mass spectrometry equipment. Unexpected readings are almost always the result of user error, failure to follow device instructions, contamination of the sample by smoke or other environmental variable, failure to provide a sufficient breath sample or contamination of the gas sensor through misuse, abuse or absence of recommended cleaning maintenance. Test results obtained under the many possible variables of field use are generally assumed to be approximate to actual and not correlated consecutively...
Here's the link to a scientific article about breathalyzers (http://www.craigmedical.com/Breathalyzer_FAQ.htm)
Obviously, a false positive is going to be huge in a deadly force encounter, especially in the civil suit where the burden of proof is low to non-existant. If you happened to be in a building with an HVAC system or an ionic air cleaner when you took the test, you're going to get really tired of hearing about how you were drunk at the scene, and really, really tired of writing checks every month for the rest of your life.
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So i got a question kinda related.
If you ccw, are you required to step in and defuse situations, even though they are not particularly directed at you?
I know people in hawaii usually have the mind your own business kind of attitude.
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So i got a question kinda related.
If you ccw, are you required to step in and defuse situations, even though they are not particularly directed at you?
I know people in hawaii usually have the mind your own business kind of attitude.
No. You are not REQUIRED to do anything.
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How the hell can they use those things as evidence?
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How the hell can they use those things as evidence?
Good question. For those reading this, I should put out the disclaimer that I am not a lawyer, and in no sense does anything I'm saying constitute legal advice. You might save yourself a headache listening to me, or you might find yourself strapped to a table with a special IV while your family watches through a one-way mirror. I'm just a dumb old sailor reading teh intarwebs, so if you're planning on taking anything I say as gospel truth, you're probably setting yourself up for failure!
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You're giving them way too much credit. I know hpd that don't even know what kinda gun they carry and could care less about guns. Ive heard a federal policeman talk about how his co-workers didn't even know how to clear a gun, left the mag in and couldn't figure out why rounds kept coming out when he worked the slide. I've seen military armorers have negligent discharges because they didn't properly clear a pistol. I could go on and on. You can't assume just because someone carries that they know about stuff you know about. I'd be willing to bet there more gun owners who don't know who ayoob is then owners that do
You're right that a lot of gun owners don't know Massad Ayoob, a lot of cops and military are idiots, etc, but those cops that don't know which end the bullets come out of and the gun owners who haven't heard of Ayoob probably aren't carrying concealed when they're off-duty. I would respectfully submit that if a guy has a CCW, and hasn't done enough reading to have come across Ayoob, they're unprepared and need to get serious about the fact that they're walking around with a loaded gun strapped on.
Here's a link to what I was referring to: Massad Ayoob in Guns & Ammo (http://www.gunsandammo.com/2011/05/26/video-after-a-real-shooting)
I'm with pj on this one. HPD is required to carry a lot of the time. Many of them do not know firearms, nor are they really interested. To them firearms are just something that comes along with the job and much like filling out some paperwork, they just tolerate them because they have to.
I would hope that the standards for the Fed is higher than HPD, but I've also heard that HPD's training goes beyond a lot of what mainland departments do. Pretty scary when you think about the guys walking around in the mainland with badges and firearms.
It's true enough that a lot of guys don't get the training they should. All I'm saying is that Deedy refused the on-scene breathalyzer for one of two reasons: he was drunk, or he had been trained on what Massad Ayoob and many others teach, either at work or on his free time. It could be either, but is assuming that a federal agent actually knew how to handle himself in the aftermath of a deadly force enounter so much more far-fetched than assuming that a federal agent decided to risk his career, life, and family in order to carry a firearm while drinking?
I understand why Deedy did and is continuing to do what he is in the aftermath. Basically he's taking the 5th.
As far as drunk and carrying, yes I do think that guys would (and do) carry while drinking and under the influence. You cannot employ as many people as the Fed/State/C&C without running afoul of the bad apple. It's just not realistic.
FWIW in that situation, drinking or not, I'd think it's better not to submit to anything..........probably not even make a statement other than you want a lawyer. The LEO's will probably hate you for it, but yes.......would suck to be working to pay someone when it's not your fault.
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So i got a question kinda related.
If you ccw, are you required to step in and defuse situations, even though they are not particularly directed at you?
I know people in hawaii usually have the mind your own business kind of attitude.
If you are a LEO I would think you are required to step in. If you are a regular guy, then no I don't believe you are. However as Cougar has already stated and I am now............not a lawyer.
One of the things you are taught at basic 1st Aid/CPR classes though is the general thought behind the good samaritan act. It's basically this........you do not provide care beyond your training. So you don't go in there with a knife and try and trach the guy if he isn't breathing unless you have that training. If you do then you open yourself up to charges/lawsuits. If you act within your training, then you are protected.
I would look at this in the same light. The DA (at least in Hawaii) might look at this as if you have not received proper police training and by trying to address this type of situation and not backing off and calling the police..........trouble, unless of course you are in fear of your life/maiming/sodomy/rape. Not really the case with Deedy. I'm guessing the Eldert's lawyer is saying this wasn't life threatening, you should have just called the police.
In the case of Deedy, we also don't know his training. Is he a former LEO? Is he a former armed forces? LEO and armed forces, not really the same thing in many cases. Armed forces aren't police, the mission is different which is why it's kinda messed up to send all our guys across the oceans to act as police. Also if he's primarily security, he may not be trained or their standard procedure might be to just eliminate the threat by either getting your guy out of Dodge or by stopping a threat. A LEO would have a different view as stopping the threat if those around them are in immediate and life threatening danger, other than that they may be required to place themselves in much more danger by trying to talk someone down.
Anyhow...............yeah back to those tapes. SA needs to sue to get a hold of them.
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So i got a question kinda related.
If you ccw, are you required to step in and defuse situations, even though they are not particularly directed at you?
I know people in hawaii usually have the mind your own business kind of attitude.
No. You are not REQUIRED to do anything.
+1 on this.
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How the hell can they use those things as evidence?
Well from what Ive been told in relation to DUIs, I imagine the process would probably be somewhat similar for determining sobriety in other crimes. For portable breathalyzers like the ones police officers carry in the field, they are only used in conjunction with field sobriety tests as means to build up more probable cause to bring you in and give you a more accurate way of determining BAC. The one that really counts is the breathalyzer at the police station, and there is an officer there that stays and watches you for a minimum of 20 minutes before administering the breathalyzer. During that 20 min, youre not allowed to smoke, eat, drink, use the bathroom, or vomit at all. If you do any of those, the 20 min waiting period starts all over again.
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dont talk to cops part 1:
Don't Talk to Cops, Part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik#)
Part 2:
Don't Talk to Cops, Part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08fZQWjDVKE#)
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We need a dedicated thread for informative videos like these^
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How the hell can they use those things as evidence?
Well from what Ive been told in relation to DUIs, I imagine the process would probably be somewhat similar for determining sobriety in other crimes. For portable breathalyzers like the ones police officers carry in the field, they are only used in conjunction with field sobriety tests as means to build up more probable cause to bring you in and give you a more accurate way of determining BAC. The one that really counts is the breathalyzer at the police station, and there is an officer there that stays and watches you for a minimum of 20 minutes before administering the breathalyzer. During that 20 min, youre not allowed to smoke, eat, drink, use the bathroom, or vomit at all. If you do any of those, the 20 min waiting period starts all over again.
They (the police) also have to maintain a maintance log and do regular (usually daily or every shift) QA testing to make sure the results are generally accurate. I used to have one we used in the ED and if the QA wasn't done, the results could be readily disputed in court.
As for the videos, the two shown are excellent educational pieces.....no one should talk to the police after an incident where you could be charged criminally....I don't fault the agent for not taking the test....I wouldn't have. And, in some of the initial reports they had Deedy described as "uncooperative" and I suspect that this was how they (HPD) described his refusal to talk and possibly incriminate himself....
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We need a dedicated thread for informative videos like these^
"I told them not to talk!!!!"
Ha ha ha ha...........awesome.........
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We need a dedicated thread for informative videos like these^
"I told them not to talk!!!!"
Ha ha ha ha...........awesome.........
I lol'd at that, too. :rofl:
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The 911 tapes have apparently been released, but I haven't been able to find the actual audio anywhere. Hawaii News Now ran this story with a transcript of one of the calls. (http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/16115276/911)
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Interesting case. :-/ Not good for anyone, really. Those angry at the Fed now have another reason to be angry, those who resent being painted by that anger now have another reason to resent it. Gun rights advocates will want to cast it as self defense and a reason to can the "may issue" fallacy here while gun control advocates will cite it as yet more reason to keep guns off the streets.
I don't see this going well though I'm certainly not a lawyer.
First, is there any federal law or permit that allowed Deedy to ~legally~ carry a firearm while off duty in Hawaii?
Also, if Deedy was trying to break something up.... doesn't that make him the instigator of the altercation that led to his use of lethal self defense? In other words didn't he put himself in harms way? Given Hawaii's lovely "no one has guns in public" policy and Deedy wasn't at home or work, how could this be an easy case of self defense?
It isn't as bad as the Massie trail and I doubt he's going to get off with a pleasant hour of tea with the Governor. Still, its going to be hard to keep this case from being politically and racially charged. :(
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How the hell can they use those things as evidence?
Well from what Ive been told in relation to DUIs, I imagine the process would probably be somewhat similar for determining sobriety in other crimes. For portable breathalyzers like the ones police officers carry in the field, they are only used in conjunction with field sobriety tests as means to build up more probable cause to bring you in and give you a more accurate way of determining BAC. The one that really counts is the breathalyzer at the police station, and there is an officer there that stays and watches you for a minimum of 20 minutes before administering the breathalyzer. During that 20 min, youre not allowed to smoke, eat, drink, use the bathroom, or vomit at all. If you do any of those, the 20 min waiting period starts all over again.
They (the police) also have to maintain a maintance log and do regular (usually daily or every shift) QA testing to make sure the results are generally accurate. I used to have one we used in the ED and if the QA wasn't done, the results could be readily disputed in court.
HiCarry, we could talk about it outside, but this in theory is correct. However, in practice not so much. The guy I work for has numerous appellate briefs in fighting the evidence practices here. Basically they don't let you challenge the sample or the machine, only the operator. The operator shows up, says "Yep, I pushed the button like they told me too and it spit out a answer that was correct." Try to verify the information, and they tell you data is "too burdensome" to recover for discovery.
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The 911 tapes have apparently been released, but I haven't been able to find the actual audio anywhere. Hawaii News Now ran this story with a transcript of one of the calls. (http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/16115276/911)
One of the anonymous callers said Deedy used the knife to cut away Eldert's shirt to assist. Interesting twist here..............
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Interesting case. :-/ Not good for anyone, really. Those angry at the Fed now have another reason to be angry, those who resent being painted by that anger now have another reason to resent it. Gun rights advocates will want to cast it as self defense and a reason to can the "may issue" fallacy here while gun control advocates will cite it as yet more reason to keep guns off the streets.
I don't see this going well though I'm certainly not a lawyer.
First, is there any federal law or permit that allowed Deedy to ~legally~ carry a firearm while off duty in Hawaii?
Also, if Deedy was trying to break something up.... doesn't that make him the instigator of the altercation that led to his use of lethal self defense? In other words didn't he put himself in harms way? Given Hawaii's lovely "no one has guns in public" policy and Deedy wasn't at home or work, how could this be an easy case of self defense?
It isn't as bad as the Massie trail and I doubt he's going to get off with a pleasant hour of tea with the Governor. Still, its going to be hard to keep this case from being politically and racially charged. :(
His badge and credentials is all he needs to carry. Via the LEOSA act, all sworn law enforcement in the US are allowed to carry off duty anywhere in the US except for certain places, like "gun free zones", military bases, etc.
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Thanks, hillbilly19. I was pretty sure I was missing something and that was it.
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How can we listen to the tapes?
Re: guys carrying off duty. A federal policeman told me that they were not supposed to carry off duty. Have to pick up their gun at beginning of shift, return it at end of shift. Have no idea why
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How can we listen to the tapes?
Re: guys carrying off duty. A federal policeman told me that they were not supposed to carry off duty. Have to pick up their gun at beginning of shift, return it at end of shift. Have no idea why
Click the link and it will start playing
The 911 tapes have apparently been released, but I haven't been able to find the actual audio anywhere. Hawaii News Now ran this story with a transcript of one of the calls. (http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/16115276/911)
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How can we listen to the tapes?
Re: guys carrying off duty. A federal policeman told me that they were not supposed to carry off duty. Have to pick up their gun at beginning of shift, return it at end of shift. Have no idea why
What branch is he in? I don't know any federal guys that check out from the armory (that are actually law enforcement officers).
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We need a dedicated thread for informative videos like these^
"I told them not to talk!!!!"
Ha ha ha ha...........awesome.........
I lol'd at that, too. :rofl:
;) lol, im used to my sarcasm going completely undetected when posting on forums
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How can we listen to the tapes?
Re: guys carrying off duty. A federal policeman told me that they were not supposed to carry off duty. Have to pick up their gun at beginning of shift, return it at end of shift. Have no idea why
What branch is he in? I don't know any federal guys that check out from the armory (that are actually law enforcement officers).
branch? He is a federal policeman on joint base pearl/hickam.
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How can we listen to the tapes?
Re: guys carrying off duty. A federal policeman told me that they were not supposed to carry off duty. Have to pick up their gun at beginning of shift, return it at end of shift. Have no idea why
What branch is he in? I don't know any federal guys that check out from the armory (that are actually law enforcement officers).
branch? He is a federal policeman on joint base pearl/hickam.
Federal officers on military installations are just like the MP's, their jurisdiction starts and ends on the installation. Comparably, the federal cops also follow MP protocol of checking in-out their weapons according to their shifts. These officers are actual law enforcement on the installations with arresting authority, not to be confused with the Wackenhut gate security at some installations(which can only detain until a MP or federal cop shows up)
Now a federal cop having their credentials and carrying a personally owned weapon in public is another story which I'm not sure how that would apply, especially in Hawaii.
It's all about jurisdiction and the state laws.
I'm not a MP, so correct me if I'm wrong on this point (just been around for awhile...)
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How can we listen to the tapes?
Re: guys carrying off duty. A federal policeman told me that they were not supposed to carry off duty. Have to pick up their gun at beginning of shift, return it at end of shift. Have no idea why
What branch is he in? I don't know any federal guys that check out from the armory (that are actually law enforcement officers).
branch? He is a federal policeman on joint base pearl/hickam.
While hes a police officer, hes not a law-enforcement officer. The base police are not a true example of a Federal Law enforcement officer. That would be like ATF, FBI, CIA, Customs and BP, I.C.E. and so forth. I've probably worked with him when I have done security duty at JBPHH.
Big problem with a bunch of "military police" is they don't have true law enforcement powers; its a strange problem that I wish they would check out. You are correct, he gets his gun from the armory, and has no ability or authority to carry outside of his duty hours (unlike a police officer). This might be kind of hard to understand and explain, and is probably best done in person. All I can say though is its not really the same thing.
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How can we listen to the tapes?
Re: guys carrying off duty. A federal policeman told me that they were not supposed to carry off duty. Have to pick up their gun at beginning of shift, return it at end of shift. Have no idea why
What branch is he in? I don't know any federal guys that check out from the armory (that are actually law enforcement officers).
branch? He is a federal policeman on joint base pearl/hickam.
While hes a police officer, hes not a law-enforcement officer. The base police are not a true example of a Federal Law enforcement officer. That would be like ATF, FBI, CIA, Customs and BP, I.C.E. and so forth. I've probably worked with him when I have done security duty at JBPHH.
Big problem with a bunch of "military police" is they don't have true law enforcement powers; its a strange problem that I wish they would check out. You are correct, he gets
his gun from the armory, and has no ability or authority to carry outside of his duty hours (unlike a police officer). This might be kind of hard to understand and explain, and is probably best done in person. All I can say though is its not really the same thing.
Agreed, your explanation was better than mine..... It is hard to articulate the differences without citing laws and codes.
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http://www.state.gov/m/ds/career/c8853.htm (http://www.state.gov/m/ds/career/c8853.htm)
Special agent job description.
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Hopefully they release the tapes soon, and hopefully it explains everything. However the 911 calls are the closest form of actual evidence we got so far.
I hope the tapes are good quality too. I hate when banks get robbed and on the news they show a freeze frame of the dude and its the worse quality ever. I mean my cellphone can take better pictures then that. And I hope not all bank cameras suck that much.
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Has a trial been scheduled?
My guess is that they won't release tapes until they've been seen by the jury. Hard to pick a jury if too much info gets out on a case like this.
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How can we listen to the tapes?
Re: guys carrying off duty. A federal policeman told me that they were not supposed to carry off duty. Have to pick up their gun at beginning of shift, return it at end of shift. Have no idea why
What branch is he in? I don't know any federal guys that check out from the armory (that are actually law enforcement officers).
branch? He is a federal policeman on joint base pearl/hickam.
Pearl Harbor police or the gate guards?
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How can we listen to the tapes?
Re: guys carrying off duty. A federal policeman told me that they were not supposed to carry off duty. Have to pick up their gun at beginning of shift, return it at end of shift. Have no idea why
What branch is he in? I don't know any federal guys that check out from the armory (that are actually law enforcement officers).
branch? He is a federal policeman on joint base pearl/hickam.
Pearl Harbor police or the gate guards?
He is NOT a federal policeman.
He works for the bureau of diplomatic security, under the U.S. State Dept.
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How can we listen to the tapes?
Re: guys carrying off duty. A federal policeman told me that they were not supposed to carry off duty. Have to pick up their gun at beginning of shift, return it at end of shift. Have no idea why
What branch is he in? I don't know any federal guys that check out from the armory (that are actually law enforcement officers).
branch? He is a federal policeman on joint base pearl/hickam.
Pearl Harbor police or the gate guards?
popo
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How can we listen to the tapes?
Re: guys carrying off duty. A federal policeman told me that they were not supposed to carry off duty. Have to pick up their gun at beginning of shift, return it at end of shift. Have no idea why
What branch is he in? I don't know any federal guys that check out from the armory (that are actually law enforcement officers).
branch? He is a federal policeman on joint base pearl/hickam.
Pearl Harbor police or the gate guards?
He is NOT a federal policeman.
He works for the bureau of diplomatic security, under the U.S. State Dept.
PJ's friend, not Deedy....... :crazy:
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How can we listen to the tapes?
Re: guys carrying off duty. A federal policeman told me that they were not supposed to carry off duty. Have to pick up their gun at beginning of shift, return it at end of shift. Have no idea why
What branch is he in? I don't know any federal guys that check out from the armory (that are actually law enforcement officers).
branch? He is a federal policeman on joint base pearl/hickam.
Pearl Harbor police or the gate guards?
He is NOT a federal policeman.
He works for the bureau of diplomatic security, under the U.S. State Dept.
PJ's friend, not Deedy....... :crazy:
OIC
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How can we listen to the tapes?
Re: guys carrying off duty. A federal policeman told me that they were not supposed to carry off duty. Have to pick up their gun at beginning of shift, return it at end of shift. Have no idea why
What branch is he in? I don't know any federal guys that check out from the armory (that are actually law enforcement officers).
branch? He is a federal policeman on joint base pearl/hickam.
Pearl Harbor police or the gate guards?
He is NOT a federal policeman.
He works for the bureau of diplomatic security, under the U.S. State Dept.
PJ's friend, not Deedy....... :crazy:
OIC
Hee hee hee hee
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How can we listen to the tapes?
Re: guys carrying off duty. A federal policeman told me that they were not supposed to carry off duty. Have to pick up their gun at beginning of shift, return it at end of shift. Have no idea why
What branch is he in? I don't know any federal guys that check out from the armory (that are actually law enforcement officers).
It's because "Federal police officers" are not real law enforcement. They're glorified security guards. Same as armored car drivers. Armed while on the clock but have no jurisdiction to do anything off duty.
Federal agents... very different story.
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The civilian police you see running around Pearl Harbor and Schofield Barracks do not meet the guidelines to carry off duty under LEOSA, which is why they dont carry. To qualify as a law enforcement officer you need to have statutory powers of arrest; military police and their Dept Army/Navy counterparts on post act under the General's authority on military grounds and have no real arrest authority.
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So many unanswered questions in this scenario...
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Anyone know what happened with this?
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Deedy pleaded not guilty and I think the trail is set to start in Jan or Feb. I might be wrong on the trail date, though.
But other than that there are not too many details to be had.
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Deedy pleaded not guilty and I think the trail is set to start in Jan or Feb. I might be wrong on the trail date, though.
But other than that there are not too many details to be had.
Yeah, those trails can be hard. ;)
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Ha!
Not once but twice, too. :-[
That'll teach me to post at 12:45 am....
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I wonder if they will petition for the trail to be moved to the mainland or someplace else more "friendly" perhaps
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So long as he gets as fare trail by a jewelry of his pears.
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So long as he gets as fare trail by a jewelry of his pears.
:wacko:
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Co worker told me yesterday that deedy got released. He heard it on the news. Been trying to look but cant find any info on it. Anyone heard anything? Maybe they took the tapes and ran!!
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Co worker told me yesterday that deedy got released. He heard it on the news. Been trying to look but cant find any info on it. Anyone heard anything? Maybe they took the tapes and ran!!
Released? As far as i know, he has been released on bond. Released is different from being acquitted or having the charges dropped.
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Hrm.... ^^^ above has a good point. Deedy was already 'free' in terms of posting a bond and not sitting in jail.
Would love to know - that way I either know to champion him or throw him away as a bad example ;).
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I think I read somewhere his trial was scheduled for sometime in August 2012.
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I think I read somewhere his trial was scheduled for sometime in August 2012.
I somehow doubt we will see his return, the family has been awful quiet. Where is that loudmouth ambulance chasing lawyer again?
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I somehow doubt we will see his return, the family has been awful quiet. Where is that loudmouth ambulance chasing lawyer again?
You may be right. Two headlines you'll never, ever see: "DA says McDonald's Shooting Justified, Drops Charges" or "State Dept. Employee Found Not Guilty In McDonald's Shooting". The only headline we'd ever see is if they get a chance to run one that says:
Deedy Guilty of Murder; Legislature Considers Lifting Capitol Punishment Ban
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You may be right. Two headlines you'll never, ever see: "DA says McDonald's Shooting Justified, Drops Charges" or "State Dept. Employee Found Not Guilty In McDonald's Shooting". The only headline we'd ever see is if they get a chance to run one that says:
Deedy Guilty of Murder; Legislature Considers Lifting Capitol Punishment Ban
Not likely
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Not likely
Not sure I made a coherent point when I posted the above, so I'll clarify by saying that I'm not making any assumption about Deedy's guilt or innocence; just commenting on the media bias. If he's acquitted or charges are dropped, the media won't bother to report on it. If they do, it'll be buried on page G18. If he's found guilty, they'll be singing it from the rooftops in their biggest, boldest, "Victory In Europe" font.
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Gotta love the media. It's not news unless it's bad news.
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Not sure I made a coherent point when I posted the above, so I'll clarify by saying that I'm not making any assumption about Deedy's guilt or innocence; just commenting on the media bias. If he's acquitted or charges are dropped, the media won't bother to report on it. If they do, it'll be buried on page G18. If he's found guilty, they'll be singing it from the rooftops in their biggest, boldest, "Victory In Europe" font.
I have a different take on it. The media would show its true colors (and outrage) by publicizing it as a travesty of justice. You might see a headline like "Murderer
Let Go!" or "No justice for Elderts!"
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I have a different take on it. The media would show its true colors (and outrage) by publicizing it as a travesty of justice. You might see a headline like "Murderer
Let Go!" or "No justice for Elderts!"
I think this is the most likely outcome if/when he is cleared.
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I have a different take on it. The media would show its true colors (and outrage) by publicizing it as a travesty of justice. You might see a headline like "Murderer
Let Go!" or "No justice for Elderts!"
I have no horse in this race but I dont believe that he will be convicted.
Elderts has a history of violence and crime.
Before the case is over, I think that we will get to see the "tapes" from McDonalds which will reveal who exactly the aggressor was.
If and when that happens, it will take the air out of the sails of a "no justice" headline.
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http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/breaking/Prosecutors_decline_to_press_charges_in_Waikiki_stabbing_case.html?id=138354074 (http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/breaking/Prosecutors_decline_to_press_charges_in_Waikiki_stabbing_case.html?id=138354074)
Here is an example of prosecutors failing to pursue charges. We'll see if it makes a larger appearance in tomorrow's edition or if this just remains an update and dies after that. My guess is the Fed's case will make front page just because it was such a large issue at the time, but I think we'll see it die off fairly quickly after that.
Prosecutors decline to press charges in Waikiki stabbing case
POSTED: 11:47 a.m. HST, Jan 30, 2012
LAST UPDATED: 01:22 p.m. HST, Jan 30, 2012
The suspect in the stabbing death following a confrontation over a stolen bag at Queen’s Beach Jan. 22 was released Sunday after prosecutors declined to take up the case, saying it was a matter of self defense.
Police arrested a 42-year-old man Friday, but released him Sunday.
Brycen Iona, 20, of Kaneohe died of stab wounds to his chest after he allegedly stole a bag near the concession areas of Queen’s Surf about 2:25 a.m. Jan. 22.
The 42-year-old owner of the bag confronted Iona and several other men and an argument ensued, police said.
Police alleged that Iona struck the bag owner who allegedly stabbed Iona and another man.
A 39-year-old man initially was arrested right after the stabbing. He was later released because he had been mistakenly identified by witnesses and had nothing to do with the incident, said Dave Koga, spokesman for the city prosecutor’s office.
On Sunday, Honolulu police also released the suspect in a fatal stabbing at Mayor Wright housing because the case involved self-defense. Police arrested the 33-year-old man Friday night after a fight involving several people that left one man dead and three others wounded, one critically.
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It's not injustice. It's actual ironic justice. Iona was a punk ass thug theif. He stole the guys bag and when confronted, him and his friends tried to mob the guy for kicks. What actually happened was the victim defended himself stabbing Iona and one of his other friends. I say good riddens. One less punk ass thug running around victimizing innocent people.
On the mayor wright housing case was similar. There was a party and and their kids was damaging the suspects truck. The suspect came outside to tell the parents to control their kids. The parents of the kids decided to mob the suspect because he was telling them to control their kids. Just so happened the suspects wife saw what was happening and came out side to help her husband with a knife. Well I guess the husband got a hold of the knife, and while defending himself stabbed 4 of the guys involved in the mele. Clear cut case of self defense. 4-1 mob mentality.
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It's not injustice. It's actual ironic justice. Iona was a punk ass thug theif. He stole the guys bag and when confronted, him and his friends tried to mob the guy for kicks. What actually happened was the victim defended himself stabbing Iona and one of his other friends. I say good riddens. One less punk ass thug running around victimizing innocent people.
On the mayor wright housing case was similar. There was a party and and their kids was damaging the suspects truck. The suspect came outside to tell the parents to control their kids. The parents of the kids decided to mob the suspect because he was telling them to control their kids. Just so happened the suspects wife saw what was happening and came out side to help her husband with a knife. Well I guess the husband got a hold of the knife, and while defending himself stabbed 4 of the guys involved in the mele. Clear cut case of self defense. 4-1 mob mentality.
I say bravo to any citizen who dispatches a goblin, and good riddance to the goblin.
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These types of responses to self defense cases are a great sign for Hawaii.
It says that you have the right to defend yourself when confronted with someone intent on gravely hurting you.
I applaud the people that are finally making these common sense decisions.
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These types of responses to self defense cases are a great sign for Hawaii.
It says that you have the right to defend yourself when confronted with someone intent on gravely hurting you.
I applaud the people that are finally making these common sense decisions.
Indeed. I'm glad the prosecutors decided not to take the stance that these guys should/could have run away or "instigated" the situation by confronting people.
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Indeed. I'm glad the prosecutors decided not to take the stance that these guys should/could have run away or "instigated" the situation by confronting people.
So you're saying that if someone stole your belongings in front of you would let them have it with out saying anything? If someone was smashing your vehicle you would not say anything and just walk away? Sometimes not doing anything is actually worse then actually doing something.
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So you're saying that if someone stole your belongings in front of you would let them have it with out saying anything? If someone was smashing your vehicle you would not say anything and just walk away? Sometimes not doing anything is actually worse then actually doing something.
I think he means that in the past the prosecutor would have pressed charges, claiming that the guy should have just walked away, or that self-defense wasn't justified because they instigated the confrontation. He's glad they're not doing that now.
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There is a difference between standing up for what is right and instigating a confrontation. Either of these cases would be considered instigating within the letter of the law.
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So you're saying that if someone stole your belongings in front of you would let them have it with out saying anything? If someone was smashing your vehicle you would not say anything and just walk away? Sometimes not doing anything is actually worse then actually doing something.
Someone needs a lesson in reading comprehension. This is NOT what they are saying.
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Ah yes, reading comprehension. Haha. I was cooking dinner while I was reading. I'm not good at multi-tasking.
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Ah yes, reading comprehension. Haha. I was cooking dinner while I was reading. I'm not good at multi-tasking.
knowing is half the battle.
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Ah yes, reading comprehension. Haha. I was cooking dinner while I was reading. I'm not good at multi-tasking.
So are you saying you're a bad cook? :geekdanc:
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So are you saying you're a bad cook? :geekdanc:
haha, i knew that was coming from somewhere..
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Good cook, bad reader when done in conjunction.
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Good cook, bad reader when done in conjunction.
So at what point are you going to explain why you posted a douche nozzle comment and then blamed your inability to comprehend a simple paragraph on dinner? Do you care to contribute or are we left with a bad taste from your first few posts? Pun not to be blamed on your cooking.
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I believed it was sarcasm. So I responded as I did. He got an apology out of me. What is it that you want? :worship:
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I believed it was sarcasm. So I responded as I did. He got an apology out of me. What is it that you want? :worship:
Nope, just applying anti troll questions, congrats, you appear to be human. Welcome!
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So are you saying you're a bad cook? :geekdanc:
I joke, I joke, I kid, I kid.
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My kids say I'm a good cook because I give them options. Option 1, eat what I cook. Option 2, starve. hahaha.
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My kids say I'm a good cook because I give them options. Option 1, eat what I cook. Option 2, starve. hahaha.
:rofl: I remember those options back in the day!
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There is a difference between standing up for what is right and instigating a confrontation. Either of these cases would be considered instigating within the letter of the law.
KK got it. Just to clarify my point better. I believe in Texas if you see a guy stealing your car, you could go outside and just drill him. Down here I think the prosecutors would say, "You sir should have called the proper law enforcement agency and had them deal with it. I am going to charge you with Murder or Manslaughter." You get some guy who wants to make a name for himself and they might just take such a stance.
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One more thing, I think it's pretty much human nature (and maybe nature in general) to be curious. You know something is up so you go to check and see. Down here skin divers wait on the bottom and throw up sand to attract fish and then shoot them. The fish know something is up, but they still come in. Sometimes it's the same with us when we know something bad is happening, we are curious as to us confirming we need to get the hell out of Dodge, or for the fewer to lend a hand.
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Hate to be that guy posting up, but what the hell. Cant login in to see the full article.
http://www.staradvertiser.com/s?action=login&f=y&id=151843615&id=151843615 (http://www.staradvertiser.com/s?action=login&f=y&id=151843615&id=151843615)
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Bets on if the judge will grant his request based on his supposed immunity?
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It's called qualified immunity. It makes him exempt from prosecution and any civil claims. He has to prove that his actions were within the scope of the law.
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It's called qualified immunity. It makes him exempt from prosecution and any civil claims. He has to prove that his actions were within the scope of the law.
That'll be an interesting can of worms. The "law" as it is written in Hawaii/Honolulu County regarding Concealed Carry of Firearms and their use in self defense situations? Or perhaps withing the scope of his (temporary) duties while assigned to the detail which directed his place of employment as Hawaii/Honolulu County? The response from he judge could very well affect the direction of "the Lawsuit" implicating Chief Kealoha and the Govenor.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v457/tyggrr65/Gifs/munchies.gif)
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That'll be an interesting can of worms. The "law" as it is written in Hawaii/Honolulu County regarding Concealed Carry of Firearms and their use in self defense situations? Or perhaps withing the scope of his (temporary) duties while assigned to the detail which directed his place of employment as Hawaii/Honolulu County? The response from he judge could very well affect the direction of "the Lawsuit" implicating Chief Kealoha and the Govenor.(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v457/tyggrr65/Gifs/munchies.gif)
Not likely. If Deedy was indeed "on the job" he falls under a different set of rules than your average citizen.
Waiting for the outcome. :popcorn:
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Not likely. If Deedy was indeed "on the job" he falls under a different set of rules than your average citizen.
Maybe I missed it, but has there been any indication at all that he was actively on a protective detail that night, or just carrying because he could?
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Maybe I missed it, but has there been any indication at all that he was actively on a protective detail that night, or just carrying because he could?
He was there with other people, who's name was never released.
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That'll be an interesting can of worms. The "law" as it is written in Hawaii/Honolulu County regarding Concealed Carry of Firearms and their use in self defense situations? Or perhaps withing the scope of his (temporary) duties while assigned to the detail which directed his place of employment as Hawaii/Honolulu County? The response from he judge could very well affect the direction of "the Lawsuit" implicating Chief Kealoha and the Govenor.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v457/tyggrr65/Gifs/munchies.gif)
Federal agents don't fall under Hawaii CC law. As long as he followed his agency's use of force policy he cannot be charged with a crime. He will seek qualified immunity rendering all criminal and civil cases void.
What some people fail to understand is LEOs can carry concealed in all 50 states no matter what state they hold their credentials in.
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I am aware of LEOSA, but does he (as an employee of the State Department) qualify or otherwise fall under classification of a LEO? I do not think he is a sworn officer that has police powers. He was on a detailed in Hawaii but except for being employed by the State Department was/is not different that a citizen. Security Guards aren't allowed to carry in Hawaii (generally) and only on duty if they are, He was part of a Security Detail and does not have any law enforcement powers as far as I know, so as I understand it.....he was no different than John Q Public.
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I am aware of LEOSA, but does he (as an employee of the State Department) qualify or otherwise fall under classification of a LEO? I do not think he is a sworn officer that has police powers. He was on a detailed in Hawaii but except for being employed by the State Department was/is not different that a citizen. Security Guards aren't allowed to carry in Hawaii (generally) and only on duty if they are, He was part of a Security Detail and does not have any law enforcement powers as far as I know, so as I understand it.....he was no different than John Q Public.
State department agents are sworn federal agents with full arrest powers in all 50 states. They are 1811 series federal employees. Just because he was part of a security detail does not mean that he was a security guard. In fact on that same security detail there were FBI, ATF, HPD and others.
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No ruling today in request to seal documents in case against federal agent
http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/breaking/153857625.html (http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/breaking/153857625.html)
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According to the defense, the surveillance footage should be released to the public, since it shows Deedy identifying himself as a federal agent, then being attacked, then shooting Elderts. According to the prosecution, the footage should be sealed, because it shows Deedy identifying himself as a federal agent, then being attacked, then shooting Elderts, which is going to make it really hard to get that filthy Imperialist pigdog thrown in prison.
Article (http://www.hawaiireporter.com/defense-video-shows-agent-idd-self-then-was-attacked-then-fired-fatal-shot/123)
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News just announced judge decided that the video should be kept sealed.
Trying to find the news article about it
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News just announced judge decided that the video should be kept sealed.
Trying to find the news article about it
I just saw that on the 6:00 news.
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Hawaii coverup :P look at it go!
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So who has access to the SA?
http://www.staradvertiser.com/s?action=login&f=y&id=159166525 (http://www.staradvertiser.com/s?action=login&f=y&id=159166525)
Docket omits hearing on tossing murder rap
Consideration of a motion to dismiss case against a U.S. agent is no longer scheduled
By Gregg K. Kakesako
POSTED: 01:30 a.m. HST, Jun 15, 2012
State Circuit Judge Karen Ahn has removed from her calendar a hearing on a motion by the attorney for Christopher Deedy to dismiss a murder charge against the State Department special agent.
Ahn had scheduled July 13 to hear motions by Deedy's attorney, Brook Hart, who wants the murder case dismissed. Login for more...
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So who has access to the SA?
http://www.staradvertiser.com/s?action=login&f=y&id=159166525 (http://www.staradvertiser.com/s?action=login&f=y&id=159166525)
:thumbsup:
State Circuit Judge Karen Ahn has removed from her calendar a hearing on a motion by the attorney for Christopher Deedy to dismiss a murder charge against the State Department special agent.
Ahn had scheduled July 13 to hear motions by Deedy's attorney, Brook Hart, who wants the murder case dismissed.
Deedy, 28, is scheduled to stand trial in Ahn's court on Sept. 10 on charges of second-degree murder and use of a firearm.
Hart said Thursday he does not view Ahn's action as a setback. No reason was given for the hearing's removal from her calendar.
He said there are other motions he is considering, as well as the possibility of moving Deedy's case to federal court.
Earlier, Hart said Deedy was in Honolulu as a federal law enforcement officer on an official U.S. State Department assignment with the power of arrest and the right to carry a firearm when he shot and killed Kollin Elderts, 23, Nov. 5 at a Waikiki McDonald's restaurant.
In legal papers filed in Circuit Court June 8 opposing Hart's request for more materials, city Deputy Prosector Janice Futa said Deedy was "the first aggressor" in an early morning fight inside the fast-food restaurant.
Futa said "independent witnesses stated that Deedy acted as the first aggressor, escalating a verbal argument into a physical confrontation when he (Deedy) thrust kicked Elderts in the chest/stomach area and threw his slippers at Elderts, striking Elderts in the head."
She said all police reports as well as relevant written or recorded witness statements have been provided to Hart.
Futa said Hart is "conducting a fishing expedition" with his requests.
She also said Hart's request for the criminal records of Elderts, his companion that night — Shane Medeiros — and potential witnesses, and for the birth dates and Social Security numbers of all potential witnesses, is not relevant to the case.
Earlier this month, Ahn, a former congressional aide and television journalist, granted a prosecution request to seal the restaurant's surveillance videos.
The judge also kept private portions of the court document referring to events depicted on the surveillance videos of the shooting.
Hart and the Honolulu Star-Advertiser, its television news partner Hawaii News Now and online news site Hawaii Reporter opposed the sealing.
Ahn ruled that the videos, if released, would essentially go viral on the Internet and provide images that could jeopardize a fair trial for the prosecution, defense or both.
Hart filed the dismissal motion and exhibits that included the surveillance videos on May 14, which as court filings normally would have been public. But the filings were kept private because of the prosecution's pending request and the judge's ruling.
Hart has said federal law empowers a federal officer to act within the scope of his duties to protect a person from a "crime of violence."
Deedy acted, Hart has said, in response to "attacks" on himself and a friend.
The State Department has said Deedy was in Hawaii as a member of its Bureau of Diplomatic Security to provide security for leaders attending the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation conference.
Deedy is free on $250,000 bail and has returned to his home in Virginia awaiting the Honolulu criminal trial.
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Thank you sir.
Find it interesting that (City Deputy Prosector Janice) Futa doesn't feel Elderts and Medeiros has any bearing on the case.
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It's because he's going to get qualified immunity....there is a reason why the prosecution fought to keep the evidence suppressed. Usually it's the defense that wants to supress evidence not the prosecution.
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The video shows an argument maybe a knife then a shooting and most importantly a so called cold blooded federal agent performing CPR on a so called model citizen.
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Have you seen the video?
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Link?
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Federal agent denied murder case transfer to U.S. District Court
http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/breaking/165353856.html (http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/breaking/165353856.html)
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I thought they would have won that injunction, even though it passed the 30 days, and they would move it to the mainland or something and that would be the last we would ever hear of it. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. Maybe after this their will be riots and whatnot in the streets like with the LA riots. Haha. Yeah right
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Maybe after this their will be riots and whatnot in the streets like with the LA riots. Haha. Yeah right
Nah, local people are too normal to engage in mass stupidity.
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Update on this case.
KITV: Court documents detail deadly Waikiki shooting
http://www.kitv.com/news/hawaii/Court-documents-detail-deadly-Waikiki-shooting/-/8905354/17586900/-/eipkcy/-/index.html?absolute=true
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Update on this case.
KITV: Court documents detail deadly Waikiki shooting
http://www.kitv.com/news/hawaii/Court-documents-detail-deadly-Waikiki-shooting/-/8905354/17586900/-/eipkcy/-/index.html?absolute=true (http://www.kitv.com/news/hawaii/Court-documents-detail-deadly-Waikiki-shooting/-/8905354/17586900/-/eipkcy/-/index.html?absolute=true)
Really interesting developments.
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Seems that the local media is biased once again. They reveal the prosection's portrayal of the situation. Lets not forget that the deceased had a criminal record.
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Lets not forget that the deceased had a criminal record.
So that justifies use of deadly force at McDonald's?
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Hawaii version of the trayvon martin case?
Nah nah. Interesting to hear the story as more facts start to come out.
I still wanna see the video though.
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I still find it hard to believe that the haole started it.
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So that justifies use of deadly force at McDonald's?
Doesn't matter where it took place, you can be justified to use deadly force in church or an elementary school.
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Doesn't matter where it took place, you can be justified to use deadly force in church or an elementary school.
Thanks, I was going to say the same thing.
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Doesn't matter where it took place, you can be justified to use deadly force in church or an elementary school.
You gentlemen are correct. :shaka:
So delete the "at McDonald's" from my question.
All facts will eventually become known/presented, then hopefully justice will be served.
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Did they do a blood test to check his BAC?
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Did they do a blood test to check his BAC?
I don't think they did. There was not a whole lot of information released to the public.
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More info.
KITV: Christopher Deedy defending self, customer
http://www.kitv.com/Agent-s-attorney-says-surveillance-video-supports-Deedy-s-case/-/8906042/17617924/-/j11hso/-/index.html?absolute=true
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So their defense is that the guy was making trouble? Just show us the fkn vid already
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One more KITV vid on this.
http://youtu.be/x5k36Wd2Rts
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Nothing is going to happen until we see this video. And, if it really does show the agent in a good light, there should be hell to pay for the city.
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Probably won't see the video until after the trial, if ever.