New AR Pistol barrel w/o ports (Read 6897 times)

changemyoil66

Re: New AR Pistol barrel w/o ports
« Reply #20 on: March 01, 2018, 10:42:01 AM »
I guess it depends on who's at the desk that day.

Best bet would have a stripped lower and register that. Then build it. Have a copy of HRS 134-1 along with copies of other states statutes with definitions for clarity if/when ever asked.

If it's not specifically defined it's not defined as not compliant. And having other legal definitions handy helps.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

When you register the stripped lower, it has to say "pistol" and not rifle on the reg.  So double check before you leave.

smashpwnage

Re: New AR Pistol barrel w/o ports
« Reply #21 on: August 16, 2018, 03:40:49 PM »
Just put a bullet button and your good to go.  I have asked both HPD and the AG, HPD says they dont have a definition. So anything the guy at the counter tells you is BS, The AG says they have not provided a defintion to HPD.

detachable is different to serviceable.  The engine in your car is not detachable , BUT if you undo some bolts you can remove it to service it.



have you or anyone had any luck doing this? i have a bullet button i was going to install and epoxy the button hole, but if i dont have to...

mangosteenqueen

Re: New AR Pistol barrel w/o ports
« Reply #22 on: April 28, 2019, 09:50:15 PM »
If a AR has a barrel shorter than 16” and has a brace but the overall length of the AR is over 26”,
does it classify as a illegal firearm in Hawaii? It seems to be the new loophole fad in the mainland for shorter barrels

6716J

Re: New AR Pistol barrel w/o ports
« Reply #23 on: April 29, 2019, 02:17:06 PM »
If a AR has a barrel shorter than 16” and has a brace but the overall length of the AR is over 26”,
does it classify as a illegal firearm in Hawaii? It seems to be the new loophole fad in the mainland for shorter barrels

It could be classified as an AOW, but here?.... it would probably be classified as an SBR if a rifle stock or pistol if no "stock" or has a brace.
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy.

eyeeatingfish

Re: New AR Pistol barrel w/o ports
« Reply #24 on: May 03, 2019, 09:17:19 PM »
THE ATF DOES NOT AND NEVER HAVE HAD A DEFINITION FOR "DETACHABLE MAGAZINES". I have that statement in writing via an ATF  letterhead !

The Hawaii AG and HPD is full of it in every way.

The downside is that if it ever came up to a criminal charge it could end up being a jury that has to decide what constitutes a detachable magazine. I wouldn't be comfortable to be in that position, hoping 12 people considered something like a bullet button detachable or not.

6716J

Re: New AR Pistol barrel w/o ports
« Reply #25 on: May 23, 2019, 04:37:20 PM »
The downside is that if it ever came up to a criminal charge it could end up being a jury that has to decide what constitutes a detachable magazine. I wouldn't be comfortable to be in that position, hoping 12 people considered something like a bullet button detachable or not.

They would have to go find a legal definition and California being the closest would probably be the definition

CA - Penal Code section 12276.1: (a) "detachable magazine" means any ammunition feeding device that can be removed readily from the firearm with neither disassembly of the firearm action nor use of a tool being required.
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy.

fishandshoot

Re: New AR Pistol barrel w/o ports
« Reply #26 on: September 08, 2019, 01:13:14 AM »
Anyone seen this bolt action only bcg? Would it be another way to do a pistol build?
https://kalikey.com/?gclid=CjwKCAjwzdLrBRBiEiwAEHrAYtbs9TGEB_aOKULuFId4voynxOakagt_PcNx1mxKT7xq_g35A8m27RoCrJAQAvD_BwE

Flapp_Jackson

Re: New AR Pistol barrel w/o ports
« Reply #27 on: September 08, 2019, 11:46:18 AM »
Anyone seen this bolt action only bcg? Would it be another way to do a pistol build?
https://kalikey.com/?gclid=CjwKCAjwzdLrBRBiEiwAEHrAYtbs9TGEB_aOKULuFId4voynxOakagt_PcNx1mxKT7xq_g35A8m27RoCrJAQAvD_BwE

Probably not good for HPD.  They want the modifications to be as permanent as possible. 

We have to epoxy our mags into the mag well rather than use a bullet-button or the newest CA-compliant work-around that let's you quickly open the receiver to change mags.

If swapping out a BCG is the difference between single-shot and semi-auto, even if HPD approved it, just owning a semi-auto BCG and AR pistol could be seen as intent to put the two together.

Just my opinion.  You'd have to run it by HPD to see.  Depending on who you ask there, you could get a range of answers.
It is usually futile to try to talk facts and analysis to people who are enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance.

6716J

Re: New AR Pistol barrel w/o ports
« Reply #28 on: September 09, 2019, 01:00:11 PM »
Probably not good for HPD.  They want the modifications to be as permanent as possible. 

We have to epoxy our mags into the mag well rather than use a bullet-button or the newest CA-compliant work-around that let's you quickly open the receiver to change mags. (Does anyone have a written or videotaped statement from HPD of how they want the mags welded/epoxied in place?)

If swapping out a BCG is the difference between single-shot and semi-auto, even if HPD approved it, just owning a semi-auto BCG and AR pistol could be seen as intent to put the two together.

Just my opinion.  You'd have to run it by HPD to see.  Depending on who you ask there, you could get a range of answers.

What they want and what they get are 2 different things. If it is a single shot system there is nothing they can do about it. No different than no gas tube.

Intent is a pretty big word. Just ask Comey and Hillary. She didn't intend to break the law so no charges..... And it's now in the public domain from the highest level of law enforcement.  I put a 525 HP engine in my car. Does that mean I can be ticketed for speeding because they think I INTEND to speed?
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy.

changemyoil66

Re: New AR Pistol barrel w/o ports
« Reply #29 on: September 09, 2019, 02:13:38 PM »
Anyone seen this bolt action only bcg? Would it be another way to do a pistol build?
https://kalikey.com/?gclid=CjwKCAjwzdLrBRBiEiwAEHrAYtbs9TGEB_aOKULuFId4voynxOakagt_PcNx1mxKT7xq_g35A8m27RoCrJAQAvD_BwE

Looks like  a waste of money to me.  Really no diff from removing the gas block.  You can accomplish what this $232 part does with existing BCG and charging handle.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: New AR Pistol barrel w/o ports
« Reply #30 on: September 09, 2019, 03:57:20 PM »
What they want and what they get are 2 different things. If it is a single shot system there is nothing they can do about it. No different than no gas tube.

Intent is a pretty big word. Just ask Comey and Hillary. She didn't intend to break the law so no charges..... And it's now in the public domain from the highest level of law enforcement.  I put a 525 HP engine in my car. Does that mean I can be ticketed for speeding because they think I INTEND to speed?

I really don't want to argue.  The posts others have made on here regarding AR pistol registration and inspection are numerous and often very deep with lots of back-and-forth comments.  You should research those.

My understanding from those posts is HPD can, and does, do whatever they want as far as setting specific standards for what mods are acceptable and what's not.

As far as intent goes, the standard normally enforced by Hawaii when addressing firearm modifications is they must be done in a way that requires at least some amount of time, effort and tooling to undo the mod.  Example: Anyone can install a flash hider to make their 14.5" barrel the legal 16" length, but Hawaii requires that it be pinned and welded.  Is that permanent?  As far as HPD is concerned, the time and effort needed to remove it makes it so.

Our laws are subjective, vague and based on ignorance of firearms.  Arguing what someone tasked with enforcing the laws will decide (or is allowed to decide) is pointless.  If your opinion is, "If it is a single shot system there is nothing they can do about it." I wish you luck.  I can only speculate what HPD's response will be. 

Please purchase the BCG and post what HPD decided.  It would be educational for all concerned.

It is usually futile to try to talk facts and analysis to people who are enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance.

eyeeatingfish

Re: New AR Pistol barrel w/o ports
« Reply #31 on: September 09, 2019, 10:04:12 PM »
Just found out about this gun. Its not cheap but rather than trying to Macguyver some AR15 into a bolt action pistol you could just get this.

https://www.remington.com/handguns/700-cp

bingbong

Re: New AR Pistol barrel w/o ports
« Reply #32 on: September 13, 2019, 01:33:39 PM »
According to this site: https://crossarmory.com/shop/ar-quick-pins/ detachable magazine is defined as in many highly regulated states, including CA, NY, CT, MA, MD, HI, as well as Washington DC, gun owners are required to separate the upper and lower receivers in order to remove their magazines. According to this site https://crossarmory.com/shop/cross-armory-ar-fixed-mag/ when you need to weld or epoxy the mag this is called permanently fixed magazines that only apply to NY, NJ & CT.  Bullet buttons were banned because it did not require the separation of the upper and lower. Safe mag seems to be the solution to the detachable magazine problem.

Does anybody know if I buy an ar pistol lower can I install the safe mag or do I have to pay the FFL to install the safe mag before I take possession of the pistol lower.  Can HPD refuse to register an ar pistol lower?

Heavies

Re: New AR Pistol barrel w/o ports
« Reply #33 on: September 13, 2019, 05:52:21 PM »
According to this site: https://crossarmory.com/shop/ar-quick-pins/ detachable magazine is defined as in many highly regulated states, including CA, NY, CT, MA, MD, HI, as well as Washington DC, gun owners are required to separate the upper and lower receivers in order to remove their magazines. According to this site https://crossarmory.com/shop/cross-armory-ar-fixed-mag/ when you need to weld or epoxy the mag this is called permanently fixed magazines that only apply to NY, NJ & CT.  Bullet buttons were banned because it did not require the separation of the upper and lower. Safe mag seems to be the solution to the detachable magazine problem.

Does anybody know if I buy an ar pistol lower can I install the safe mag or do I have to pay the FFL to install the safe mag before I take possession of the pistol lower.  Can HPD refuse to register an ar pistol lower?

HPD will not allow bullet buttons or the like.  They make up their own rules, and if you ask the AG for definitions they refuse to give any answers. 

The only thing they will allow, maybe, on a good day, with the right officer, is a WELDED magazine.  Not glued, not tacked on, WELDED.

There are many threads on this.  They make up whatever rules they want.  If someone has the cash to take them to court on it, maybe they'll change their minds.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: New AR Pistol barrel w/o ports
« Reply #34 on: September 13, 2019, 06:07:46 PM »
HPD will not allow bullet buttons or the like.  They make up their own rules, and if you ask the AG for definitions they refuse to give any answers. 

The only thing they will allow, maybe, on a good day, with the right officer, is a WELDED magazine.  Not glued, not tacked on, WELDED.

There are many threads on this.  They make up whatever rules they want.  If someone has the cash to take them to court on it, maybe they'll change their minds.

The more likely scenario is they'll have the statute changed to legalize whatever they made up on the spot.

It's a moving target.  CA allowed detachable mags, then they required a "tool" to remove the mag.  Enter the bullet button.  Now they changed the law to require the receiver be separated to change the mag.  They don't get that the mag is STILL DETACHABLE even if you have to take an additional step to detach it.  Duh!  Eventually, they'll figure out that what they are legislating in a roundabout way is to require mags be fixed (i.e. nondetachable).

This is the result of ignorant politicians writing gun laws about which most haven't a clue.

"A shroud ... that shoulder thing that goes up ... "
It is usually futile to try to talk facts and analysis to people who are enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance.

bingbong

Re: New AR Pistol barrel w/o ports
« Reply #35 on: September 13, 2019, 09:27:24 PM »
Anybody have a list of pro 2A state legislatures that can be solicited for a ruling on this matter by the AG?

Flapp_Jackson

Re: New AR Pistol barrel w/o ports
« Reply #36 on: September 14, 2019, 12:30:23 AM »
Anybody have a list of pro 2A state legislatures that can be solicited for a ruling on this matter by the AG?

 :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

You're serious??

The only time the AG gets involved is to charge someone with a crime, or to defend the ambiguous, poorly-defined laws when someone actually sues to fix this mess they call a legal system.

If our AG ever decides to provide an opinion on any law, especially gun laws, it won't be to the public.  They see themselves as representing "the state", not "the people."  Many on here have asked for clarification of Hawaii statutes and definitions several times, and they all got the same response:  the AG's office can't (or won't?) give legal advice to anyone outside of state government agencies.

And any other states our AG might listen to will absolutely not be 2A-friendly states.

Our corrupt AG is hopefully going down with the Kealoha's.  Everyone sees the corruption, but it takes too long for it to catch up to these crooked state officials.  When you run the system, it takes a federal investigation to shine a light on decades of unethical and unlawful activities.

When you finally do get to the truth, you're arrested for stealing a mailbox ....   :wtf:


https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=33648.msg299153#msg299153
It is usually futile to try to talk facts and analysis to people who are enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance.

macsak

Re: New AR Pistol barrel w/o ports
« Reply #37 on: September 14, 2019, 05:31:10 AM »
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

You're serious??

The only time the AG gets involved is to charge someone with a crime, or to defend the ambiguous, poorly-defined laws when someone actually sues to fix this mess they call a legal system.

If our AG ever decides to provide an opinion on any law, especially gun laws, it won't be to the public.  They see themselves as representing "the state", not "the people."  Many on here have asked for clarification of Hawaii statutes and definitions several times, and they all got the same response:  the AG's office can't (or won't?) give legal advice to anyone outside of state government agencies.

And any other states our AG might listen to will absolutely not be 2A-friendly states.

Our corrupt AG is hopefully going down with the Kealoha's.  Everyone sees the corruption, but it takes too long for it to catch up to these crooked state officials.  When you run the system, it takes a federal investigation to shine a light on decades of unethical and unlawful activities.

When you finally do get to the truth, you're arrested for stealing a mailbox ....   :wtf:


https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=33648.msg299153#msg299153

it's the City and County Prosecutor (Kaneshiro) that will likely go down with the Kealohas, not the State AG
#focus

bingbong

Re: New AR Pistol barrel w/o ports
« Reply #38 on: September 14, 2019, 10:58:58 AM »
Please read the following:

Unfortunately, the Attorney General cannot analyze, or provide legal advice to private citizens.  As provided by statute:
 
The department shall administer and render state legal services, including furnishing of written legal opinions to the governor, legislature, and such state departments...

I'm not trying to ask the AG as a private citizen to make a ruling, rather I'm trying to get someone from the sate legislature to ask the AG to make a ruling for the state legislature.

In case anybody asks what right do i have to ask the state legislature for information, this is all covered under the first amendment, petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: New AR Pistol barrel w/o ports
« Reply #39 on: September 14, 2019, 11:55:08 PM »
it's the City and County Prosecutor (Kaneshiro) that will likely go down with the Kealohas, not the State AG
#focus

It's my rant, and I'll call him whatever I feel like!   :geekdanc:

#focu
It is usually futile to try to talk facts and analysis to people who are enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance.