What are you all using for defensive rounds (Read 898 times)

changemyoil66

What are you all using for defensive rounds
« on: September 12, 2018, 10:23:30 AM »
Looking into it now and there are so many vids out there that show the results on ballistic gel with cloth and without.  Thru objects and no object, etc...

Short barrel, full size.

Then of course there are the "well HPD uses it, that's why I use it" for liability purposes (other persons attorney trying to make you look like a crazy murderer).

And now there are not only HP, but some other polymer stuff that looks like  a twist (Underwood), or the tumbling type.

So what you all think is the most reliable for 9mm and available here.

Currently got Remington HTP JHP +P.  And it cycles fine in the VP9 and CZ P10C.  Running Critical D in the S&W 9C because it states do not use +P ammo.

macsak

Re: What are you all using for defensive rounds
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2018, 11:16:56 AM »
Looking into it now and there are so many vids out there that show the results on ballistic gel with cloth and without.  Thru objects and no object, etc...

Short barrel, full size.

Then of course there are the "well HPD uses it, that's why I use it" for liability purposes (other persons attorney trying to make you look like a crazy murderer).

And now there are not only HP, but some other polymer stuff that looks like  a twist (Underwood), or the tumbling type.

So what you all think is the most reliable for 9mm and available here.

Currently got Remington HTP JHP +P.  And it cycles fine in the VP9 and CZ P10C.  Running Critical D in the S&W 9C because it states do not use +P ammo.

I do not own any firearms, ammo, nor reloading components

drck1000

Re: What are you all using for defensive rounds
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2018, 12:20:27 PM »
For 9 mm, Gold Dot 124 gr (regular pressure).  Primarily because of proven and tested performer and readily available locally for a decent price.  I've tested POI against the typical 115 gr FMJ that I shoot and they are pretty much the same out to 25 yards, so good for my purposes.

For 40 S&W, I still have some Remington 155 gr (I think) HP ammo that a college buddy gave me when he was a Fed LEO firearms instructor.  I haven't shot with that ammo much and don't really shoot my 40 S&W much these days. 

For .223 Rem, Gold Dot 62 gr and Hornady American Gunner 55 gr HP match.  Both readily available locally and for a decent price.  Did my own testing "backyard" style testing on the ammo as well as verified POI with the FMJ ammo that I shoot regularly.  The Gold Dot stuff is also pretty well tried and true and tried the Hornady stuff because it was on sale. 

Q

Re: What are you all using for defensive rounds
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2018, 06:47:50 PM »
1775 milsurp musketballs, because that's what the constitution covers.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: What are you all using for defensive rounds
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2018, 07:17:25 PM »
9mm Luger 115 gr FTX® Critical Defense®

Quote
Since their inception, conventional hollow point pistol bullets have performed well, but have
never delivered 100% reliability, especially in self-defense situations. The patented Flex Tip®
technology used in Critical Defense® ammunition eliminates the clogging and inconsistency
that often plagues hollow point bullets. Hornady® achieved this by using the same tip material
used in LEVERevolution® ammunition.

All Critical Defense® ammunition is loaded in nickel-plated cases for increased visibility in low-light
situations. Premium low flash propellants deliver proven performance, even in very short-barreled
handguns, and won't disrupt your vision. Reliable expansion and dependable terminal performance
can be counted on for concealed carry and personal protection.

https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/handgun/9mm-luger-115-gr-ftx-critical-defense#!/


It is usually futile to try to talk facts and analysis to people who are enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance.

mill8316

Re: What are you all using for defensive rounds
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2018, 01:12:17 AM »
Federal HST 9mm 124 grain standard pressure is what I use.

After researching many hours and viewing many ballistic tests I believe HST is the best performing defensive handgun round for the widest range of scenarios. Also through my research it seems that HST is one of the best performers in other calibers and weights as well.

And as for defensive AR rifle round. I use varmint type ammo to help prevent overpenetrarion. The specific ammo I have is 50 grain gray polymer tipped from federal.

The AR rounds should not overpenetrate. And in the case of a miss, it seems they give the best chance of breaking apart after passing through thin walls.

stangzilla

Re: What are you all using for defensive rounds
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2018, 04:46:12 AM »
Winchester PDX1 125 grain HP, but I plan to switch to Hornady critical defense
I also have my reloaded XTP, which I practice with more bc its cheaper. But these would be backup rounds when my factory rounds run out bc I've heard shouldn't use reloads for self defense.

What are your thoughts on reloads for self defense?

Wake27

Re: What are you all using for defensive rounds
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2018, 05:25:21 AM »
I prefer 124 gr +P Gold Dots. Its always one of the most highly recommended loads and can usually be found. Doctor Gary Roberts is the SME on this stuff. I don't remember where its posted but if you search his name, you'll find his recommended list. Any of those should be solid.

oldfart

Re: What are you all using for defensive rounds
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2018, 09:37:54 AM »
The HPD ammo, Speer 124 gold dot standard pressure.
Because I can make a cheap reload that looks and shoots like the real thing.
So I can afford to practice at about 7 bucks a box/50

 https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=15665.msg146433#msg146433
 
 part2
 https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=15673.msg146449#msg146449
« Last Edit: September 13, 2018, 09:43:34 AM by oldfart »
What, Me Worry?

changemyoil66

Re: What are you all using for defensive rounds
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2018, 10:21:41 AM »


What are your thoughts on reloads for self defense?

IIRC OldFart had a post about this and how he was called to court or something to testify about the reloads.

oldfart

Re: What are you all using for defensive rounds
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2018, 11:57:52 AM »
IIRC OldFart had a post about this and how he was called to court or something to testify about the reloads.
....
No.
I was asked to identify the bullet as being fired from a particular caliber of pistol.
The point was that sharp attorneys will drill deep looking into every aspect of a shooting.
Hence my position that it is best to use common acceptable ammunition, like hpd issue.
What, Me Worry?

drck1000

Re: What are you all using for defensive rounds
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2018, 12:25:46 PM »
1775 milsurp musketballs, because that's what the constitution covers.
Supplemented with foul language?  ;D

I prefer 124 gr +P Gold Dots. Its always one of the most highly recommended loads and can usually be found. Doctor Gary Roberts is the SME on this stuff. I don't remember where its posted but if you search his name, you'll find his recommended list. Any of those should be solid.
Where have you been getting the +P stuff? 

I used to have a bunch of Federal Hydrashocks. Those were supposedly “the best” around the mid to late 90s. Stuff was pretty darn expensive d though. Since going to GDs, haven’t looked at the federal stuff again.

A buddy made some ballistic gel and we shot it up. He used too much tint so it was hard to see the track. That and we wanted to test a bunch of different bullet heads and loading. After a few shots, was too hard to tell between them and the gel was too expensive to make a bunch of blocks.

zippz

Re: What are you all using for defensive rounds
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2018, 12:47:54 PM »
Speer gold dot 124gr 9mm.  What law enforcent uses.  Its a good round and I dont have time to research different types out now
Join Hawaii Guys and Gals with Guns at www.meetup.com/HawaiiGGG.  We are a group of shooting friends that explore a variety of shooting sports.
Hawaii Shooting Calendar - https://calendar.google.com/calendar/embed?src=practicalmarksman.com_btllod1boifgpp8dcjnbnruhso%40group.calendar.google.com&ctz=Pacific/Honolulu

changemyoil66

Re: What are you all using for defensive rounds
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2018, 01:08:37 PM »
Thanks all for the replies.  I'm going to pick up some GD when I can.

drck1000

Re: What are you all using for defensive rounds
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2018, 01:23:20 PM »
Thanks all for the replies.  I'm going to pick up some GD when I can.
I believe SEC has 124 gr and 147 gr, both for around $25-28ish per box of 50. I try to buy some here and there. I bought some 147 gr one time when they were out of 124 gr. I was going to tear POI between the 124 and147, but haven’t had a chance. Think would be close enough for most “defensive occasions”.

changemyoil66

Re: What are you all using for defensive rounds
« Reply #15 on: September 13, 2018, 02:52:44 PM »
I believe SEC has 124 gr and 147 gr, both for around $25-28ish per box of 50. I try to buy some here and there. I bought some 147 gr one time when they were out of 124 gr. I was going to tear POI between the 124 and147, but haven’t had a chance. Think would be close enough for most “defensive occasions”.

prob gonna go tomorrow to pick up 1 box to test fire it in the P10C and VP9.  Then if everything works fine, grab a few more boxes.

Gonna stick with Critical D for the M&P 9C, since it's a 3.5 inch barrel.

macsak

Re: What are you all using for defensive rounds
« Reply #16 on: September 13, 2018, 04:42:15 PM »
prob gonna go tomorrow to pick up 1 box to test fire it in the P10C and VP9.  Then if everything works fine, grab a few more boxes.

Gonna stick with Critical D for the M&P 9C, since it's a 3.5 inch barrel.

CMO, one box is not going to tell you much either way
if it misfires, you will not know if it's just that box, or the firearm, or truly a problem
and if it works, it is also not a representation of reliability to continue a test run of that ammo

drck1000

Re: What are you all using for defensive rounds
« Reply #17 on: September 13, 2018, 04:59:01 PM »
CMO, one box is not going to tell you much either way
if it misfires, you will not know if it's just that box, or the firearm, or truly a problem
and if it works, it is also not a representation of reliability to continue a test run of that ammo
I know some folks who run a box of 50 FMJ and call things all good. . . 

Flapp_Jackson

Re: What are you all using for defensive rounds
« Reply #18 on: September 13, 2018, 06:09:34 PM »
I know some folks who run a box of 50 FMJ and call things all good. . .

There's no one-size-fits-all answer for this.

How often do you practice with that gun?
Do you always practice with your HD/SD ammo, or only use cheaper range ammo?
Do you have mag/s for HD, and others for range practice?

If you practice often, then maybe 100-200 rounds of defense ammo is sufficient for an initial function test. After that, you should continue to fire that ammo at each practice, at least 50-100 rounds or more.

That'll keep your ammo rotated.  The worst thing you can do is leave your defense ammo at home, shoot bulk ammo at the range, then load the same old HD ammo in the same untested mag for protection.  Refresh your ammo at least every few months, not only to have fresh ammo, but to continue making sure your pistol and magazine is functioning perfectly with it by using up the old stock.

If you use a revolver, then mags are not an issue. Otherwise, I have range mags that get scuffed and dirty, and HD mags that only see bullseye practice time. My 2 HD mags run HD ammo exclusively. I always have a spare mag loaded next to the pistol for malfunction/reload.  Two is one -- one is none.

If you have any issues with your chosen ammo cycling or firing, do some troubleshooting. Could be the gun needs cleaning, might be a mag issue, or you might want to test other brands/versions of HD ammo.  Once you think you have the issue corrected.  Restart the testing by running 100-200 rounds through it again.  If you get 4 boxes to run cleanly start to finish without any issues, I'd trust that ammo.

It is usually futile to try to talk facts and analysis to people who are enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance.

drck1000

Re: What are you all using for defensive rounds
« Reply #19 on: September 13, 2018, 06:58:15 PM »
For me, I initially shot a box of 50 GDs to verify. Was “good enough” with that to load up mags with them. My intent was to shoot more defensive ammo here and there.

Yeah, I agree no rule for it. Personal preference and comfort level. I want to shoot often, but it’s not consistent. Or at least as consistent as I would like. Personally, I would not be super confident taking a brand new gun, shooting a box of 50 FMJ range fodder and say the gun is GTG, but I know many who have. Up to them really.

Everyone has their rules about what their standard is for a firearm for them to trust it. I’ve seen some folks say 1,000 rounds and no malfunction for them to trust the gun. I can’t say for sure both my Glock 17s did that, but they are my go to defensive handguns.