I think what set me off was the combination of the Federal Agent on drugs killing the guy from Kailua at McDonalds with lots of voices here automatically assuming Kollin was a moke scrapper who deserved what he got, followed by some of the same voices saying that Trayvon deserved what he got because he was a 'thug'. It usually takes 3 cases to establish a pattern, but after reading some of the comments I could tell the sentiments were quite clear and decided to challenge this way of thinking out of it's polite well-meaning hiding place by bringing up two stories where the race roles were reversed. My suspicions were confirmed pretty much immediately.

I want a concealed permit just as bad as anyone else here, but after these two events I'm reconsidering my views on if it would be a good idea for Hawaii. There are tons of tourists who come here from all over the US, some from very backwards states who are fearful of being in a place with so many people of color. It's pretty much inevitable that extending concealed permit rights to some of these visitors will have disastrous consequences. It's been a long time since the Massie trial and I believe that the judicial system here would act appropriately, but that doesn't bring back people to life that might never had experienced a 'beef' in the first place in a state with a relatively low violent crime rate.

I am still surprised as to the local media not doing any true investigative journalism on the subject of that McDonalds killing in Waikiki.........or maybe I'm not as the local guys are just parrots.  In any case I'm beginning to think that both the agent and Kollin were at fault to some degree.  Kollin paid the ultimate price and I'm thinking the agent's career is probably going to be over and he'll get convicted or plea to manslaughter.  Time will tell I guess what happens.

CCW in Hawaii.  I think we should have a shall issue, but only after passing a successful class.  I know others would argue about this as a means to restrict the permit due to unrealistic cost, or training goals, but yeah when you see the guys shooting at Kokohead.............I'm all for it.

CCW in Hawaii.  I think we should have a shall issue, but only after passing a successful class.  I know others would argue about this as a means to restrict the permit due to unrealistic cost, or training goals, but yeah when you see the guys shooting at Kokohead.............I'm all for it.

Hey I'm all for that G I don't want just any gun welding yahoo out there not properly trained.

I think what set me off was the combination of the Federal Agent on drugs killing the guy from Kailua at McDonalds with lots of voices here automatically assuming Kollin was a moke scrapper who deserved what he got, followed by some of the same voices saying that Trayvon deserved what he got because he was a 'thug'. It usually takes 3 cases to establish a pattern, but after reading some of the comments I could tell the sentiments were quite clear and decided to challenge this way of thinking out of it's polite well-meaning hiding place by bringing up two stories where the race roles were reversed. My suspicions were confirmed pretty much immediately.

So two things.   Please cite your source for the bolded and italicized portion so I can look at that source please. 

And, if you don't like guns being carried -- repeal the second amendment.  Till then, this is not Europe. We have a constitution and it is quite clear in what we should be able to do.

So two things.   Please cite your source for the bolded and italicized portion so I can look at that source please. 

And, if you don't like guns being carried -- repeal the second amendment.  Till then, this is not Europe. We have a constitution and it is quite clear in what we should be able to do.

I was looking for the link but I can't find it anymore. I just did a quick lookup and chances a few people jumped on a confusing headline that made it look like Deedy had drugs in his system, but it was actually Elderts and when I did a quick fact check before posting I made the same mistake. Elderts was drinking at the time and HPD has yet to release his BA level. Also as of yet nobody has seen this mysterious video. Add that up with reports of a bloody knife yet nobody was stabbed and it seems like a big question mark.

Being able to carry a gun would be fantastic for me, especially camping out and/or working late nights at various locations with a van full of expensive equipment. The problem is there are a lot of scared little white rabbits out there who look at locals as thugs or somehow less than human because they talk differently, have a different culture, and are more than happy to get into a physical confrontation if they feel they are being looked down upon by someone who represents decades or even centuries of injustice. If given a chance those scared little white rabbits are going to act a lot tougher, unwittingly reinforcing their traditional colonialist roles, and more people are going to get shot and end up in prison.

My suggestion would be make concealed permits available for only people who take a training course in this state. At least that way they will be forced to have some exposure to island people and realize that someone saying 'f-u haole' doesn't mean they are in immediate physical danger (although it may be a good time to de-escalate and look for friendlier surroundings). If someone is beating their girlfriend to death with a shotgun, driving around randomly shooting cars, or throwing babies off a bridge it's definitely in the public's best interest to have responsible citizens prepared to use deadly force when necessary. I'm not that level right now where I would feel comfortable carrying, but welcome the opportunity to train as part of a license procedure. Asap, please!

I was looking for the link but I can't find it anymore. I just did a quick lookup and chances a few people jumped on a confusing headline that made it look like Deedy had drugs in his system, but it was actually Elderts and when I did a quick fact check before posting I made the same mistake. Elderts was drinking at the time and HPD has yet to release his BA level. Also as of yet nobody has seen this mysterious video. Add that up with reports of a bloody knife yet nobody was stabbed and it seems like a big question mark.

Being able to carry a gun would be fantastic for me, especially camping out and/or working late nights at various locations with a van full of expensive equipment. The problem is there are a lot of scared little white rabbits out there who look at locals as thugs or somehow less than human because they talk differently, have a different culture, and are more than happy to get into a physical confrontation if they feel they are being looked down upon by someone who represents decades or even centuries of injustice. If given a chance those scared little white rabbits are going to act a lot tougher, unwittingly reinforcing their traditional colonialist roles, and more people are going to get shot and end up in prison.

My suggestion would be make concealed permits available for only people who take a training course in this state. At least that way they will be forced to have some exposure to island people and realize that someone saying 'f-u haole' doesn't mean they are in immediate physical danger (although it may be a good time to de-escalate and look for friendlier surroundings). If someone is beating their girlfriend to death with a shotgun, driving around randomly shooting cars, or throwing babies off a bridge it's definitely in the public's best interest to have responsible citizens prepared to use deadly force when necessary. I'm not that level right now where I would feel comfortable carrying, but welcome the opportunity to train as part of a license procedure. Asap, please!

The 'hoods' here don't compare to the mainland imo.  I don't think you would see anything like that, but I do think you would see a lot less of this "lets rob the tourist because they can't do nothing" attitude.   A training class should be highly recommended, but not required.  Needs for self-defense arise before one might take a training class (boyfriend wants to kill you, but next HDF / LIFE class is three weeks away+ 2 week wait period + ccw application).  It's too easy to die or be hurt in that long of a time frame.


The reason I think most of the deedy elderts stuff went away, is the same reason you don't see suicides in the news. They just don't want people to know.  From my sources, more than one agent went to the hospital that night. You also really have to think about who the DSS are.  They are top notch operators - not some random LAPD style officer.

The 'hoods' here don't compare to the mainland imo.

I agree completely. It's a beautiful thing. Usual bad scenario is they like looking for fights, and if the other person isn't interested most of the time you can walk away pretty easy. I've had friends who were pretty much executed for just being at the wrong place at the wrong time on the mainland. Someone once shot at me out of a car for just walking up a hill with a skateboard. I have family that I worry about all the time back there, cause every time you hear something in the news about an innocent bystander but no names you wonder if it's happened again. This place is pretty special.

The reason I think most of the deedy elderts stuff went away, is the same reason you don't see suicides in the news. They just don't want people to know.  From my sources, more than one agent went to the hospital that night. You also really have to think about who the DSS are.  They are top notch operators - not some random LAPD style officer.

Then again it seems like top notch operators have been getting a lot of bad press lately. Drunken hookerfest anyone?

I agree completely. It's a beautiful thing. Usual bad scenario is they like looking for fights, and if the other person isn't interested most of the time you can walk away pretty easy. I've had friends who were pretty much executed for just being at the wrong place at the wrong time on the mainland. Someone once shot at me out of a car for just walking up a hill with a skateboard. I have family that I worry about all the time back there, cause every time you hear something in the news about an innocent bystander but no names you wonder if it's happened again. This place is pretty special.

This place is special!  It has like the 5th worse property crime and larceny in the country!

Then again it seems like top notch operators have been getting a lot of bad press lately. Drunken hookerfest anyone?

I've just spent the last decade in the navy lol. I have learned plenty about these type of situations; people go overseas and have sex all the time.  I really do think  that people pay for sex one way or another.  My wife gets makeup, food, housing, car, pets etc. etc.   I don't know if hooking is against the law there or not, but for me I don't really care if the guy had a hooker.  My problem would be if he didn't pay for his service. 

This place is special!  It has like the 5th worse property crime and larceny in the country!

What?
That's it... I'm taking a shit on your front lawn, then stealing your lawn gnome. 

What?
That's it... I'm taking a shit on your front lawn, then stealing your lawn gnome. 

LMFAO

Being able to carry a gun would be fantastic for me, especially camping out and/or working late nights at various locations with a van full of expensive equipment. The problem is there are a lot of scared little white rabbits out there who look at locals as thugs or somehow less than human because they talk differently, have a different culture, and are more than happy to get into a physical confrontation if they feel they are being looked down upon by someone who represents decades or even centuries of injustice. If given a chance those scared little white rabbits are going to act a lot tougher, unwittingly reinforcing their traditional colonialist roles, and more people are going to get shot and end up in prison.

My suggestion would be make concealed permits available for only people who take a training course in this state. At least that way they will be forced to have some exposure to island people and realize that someone saying 'f-u haole' doesn't mean they are in immediate physical danger (although it may be a good time to de-escalate and look for friendlier surroundings). If someone is beating their girlfriend to death with a shotgun, driving around randomly shooting cars, or throwing babies off a bridge it's definitely in the public's best interest to have responsible citizens prepared to use deadly force when necessary. I'm not that level right now where I would feel comfortable carrying, but welcome the opportunity to train as part of a license procedure. Asap, please!

SMH......there's all sorts of wrong to the bolded above. 

Every time someone points the finger at someone else they need to remember there's always 3 fingers pointing back at you.   

5th in property crime is not a rosy statistic, but are you planning on shooting someone if you catch them stealing your bike?

I've just spent the last decade in the navy lol. I have learned plenty about these type of situations; people go overseas and have sex all the time.  I really do think  that people pay for sex one way or another.  My wife gets makeup, food, housing, car, pets etc. etc.   I don't know if hooking is against the law there or not, but for me I don't really care if the guy had a hooker.  My problem would be if he didn't pay for his service.

That's what vacations are for. These guys are supposed to be on-duty performing their jobs and representing our government, not staying up all night cavorting, having hooker disputes in a hotel lobby and being rip-tastic drunk when they are supposed to show up for work the next day. It demonstrates a serious lack of professionalism.

SMH......there's all sorts of wrong to the bolded above. 

Every time someone points the finger at someone else they need to remember there's always 3 fingers pointing back at you.

The dominant narrative of the Pacific is colonialization, western indoctrination/destruction of traditional belief systems, the expropriation of land for the purpose of empire expansion, and the import of cheap labor from impoverished nations for profitable exploitation of resources.

That's what vacations are for. These guys are supposed to be on-duty performing their jobs and representing our government, not staying up all night cavorting, having hooker disputes in a hotel lobby and being rip-tastic drunk when they are supposed to show up for work the next day. It demonstrates a serious lack of professionalism.

I'm guessing you don't have much of an idea of what it is like to work 120+ hour weeks underway or in the sandbox, not seeing any family, girlfriends, or even people of the opposite sex. Liberty ports are to party, get drunk, sew your oats (for the non-married guys) and have a great time.  We go do normal things during the day (sight see, visit zoo's etc.) and party till 4am, show up for work -- work the day and move on.

The dominant narrative of the Pacific is colonialization, western indoctrination/destruction of traditional belief systems, the expropriation of land for the purpose of empire expansion, and the import of cheap labor from impoverished nations for profitable exploitation of resources.

You could be speaking Japanese all the time; sure wouldn't have had the same belief system then!  One way or another, someone was going to take Hawaii - that is just the truth of the situation.  The island is too strategic.

I thought he wasn't trolling?? It sure looks like he's trying to get an emotional reaction out of someone.

The dominant narrative of the Pacific is colonialization, western indoctrination/destruction of traditional belief systems, the expropriation of land for the purpose of empire expansion, and the import of cheap labor from impoverished nations for profitable exploitation of resources.

Almost every major colonizations of the past is based off of religion.  Savages, heathens, etc.....you name it the indigenous people were called it.  I get what you're saying about the people of the past looking down upon the locals.  It happened everywhere, it happened to the Native Americans and it also happened to my home island (Guam).  However in my posts and stance on any debate do I ever hold it (the injustice done to my people in the past) over anyone's head when trying to make a point.  Especially when time has elapsed (as we moved forward to this day and age) it's pretty much illegal for any establishment to deny anyone of their rights as American Citizens based on race. 

Your post made me question in what regards is this topic of CCW  based on race?   

 

I'm 1/4 Hawaiian my great grand father, a Nihipali from Haula served in the army infantry WWI, worked for the government at K-bay till the day he died, never bitched and moaned about how the white man stole his island. He served proudly. My grandmother 1/2 Hawaiian, I've never ever heard her bitch and moan about that shit ether. It shity how theirs only a minority of people who bitch and moan that are bitching. And they think they speak for "all us Hawaiians" ignorance is bliss.

5th in property crime is not a rosy statistic, but are you planning on shooting someone if you catch them stealing your bike?

if my bike was a key means to my survival by way of getting to work and being able to feed myself i would shoot them for stealing my bike. same as how there are places that let you shoot people for trying to steal horses of cars.

if my bike was a key means to my survival by way of getting to work and being able to feed myself i would shoot them for stealing my bike. same as how there are places that let you shoot people for trying to steal horses of cars.

In a few years this may be the appropriate action, but right now while civilization is relatively stable this will get you locked up. For good reason.