Providing for the common defense does not mean establishing military bases around the World.

I say again; the founding fathers did not believe in standing armies nor empire.  The only borders that concerned the founding fathers were located on the North American continent.  Are you defining US borders as being located outside of the continental US?

First of all, whether the US is the greatest country in the world or not is a matter of opinion. You look at things in a pessimistic way and I look at them in a optimistic way. Why you think your opinion is right and mine is wrong is laughable. You know what they say about opinions? Everyone has one. I don’t come out here telling you that you are wrong. You shouldn’t do that to me either. It only makes you look foolish because there are no facts that you can cherry pick that makes the US overall any less great than any other country. I don’t tell you that your opinion is wrong, especially since as far as my opinion is concerned, I’m right and you are wrong. See how foolish that sounds? Stop now before you look even more so. Okay?

I never explicitly stated that your view is somehow wrong and I am right.  I merely offered a different perspective of the topic of this thread.



The US has always and still remains the greatest country in the world. That is my opinion. Let me tell you why. I believe the US is still the greatest country in the world because of our freedoms and protections we enjoy. No other country in the world has the freedoms and protections we have. Plus we have freedom of movement which to me is one freedom most people take for granted. We are the land of opportunities. Opportunities that are not afforded to the general public in any other country. I am not saying we are not in decline in some areas such as education. There are other areas we are in decline. There is no question. But we are still far above other countries as far as all of the freedoms and opportunities we enjoy.

I have never refuted or offered an argument with respect freedoms, protections, or opportunities in the US.



Not sure where you are getting your figures from but some of them have been misrepresented by you. China’s overall debt is around $5T, not $1.84T as you stated. That number you stated is foreign debt only and is only a portion of their overall debt. Their GDP to debt is running around 40%-50% depending on which year you are looking at. You should not try and deceive here by stating foreign debt of China compared to overall debt of the US. You need to check your numbers before you state them.

Now, if you include loans that China has given, their debt has soared to over $40T!!!!!!!! That is over 300% of their GDP and almost double the debt of the US. And most of those loans were given to countries that the IMF and/or the International bank would not give loans to. Which, by the way is 15% of the total world debt according to Reuters.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-economy-debt-idUSKCN1UD0KD

China's national debt and GDP data does seem to variate from website to website.



I won’t dispute your other stats as I believe they are correct or close to correct.

As I and others here have stated it takes more than a couple of cherry picked stats to make a country great or not so great. I have already stated my opinions. Having such a narrow outlook on your country’s wellbeing and their greatness is your prerogative. In the same vain, it is my prerogative to look at all aspects of our country and know that we are still the greatest country overall in the world.

I never ever argued against or prevented anyone from making the comments, assertions, or positions they take.

I am a firm believer of free speech.




China might overtake the US in world economy, though their economy is so bad right now they have to manually manipulate it in order to try and maintain growth which eventually will catch up to them. They may not ever reach that point. They could collapse if their loans default on them. And they could collapse because they are manually manipulating their currency value. If they continue it will not end well for them.
 
True, but the same can be said for the US.  If the US defaults on its international loans or if the US dollar is dumped by China or Russia on the World's markets, the US would go bankrupt instantaneously as well.

On the other hand, if China's economy collapses, who is going to pick up the slack and purchase the volumes of US dollars that China did?  No one, that's who.  Hence, Americans should be careful if they wish China's economy to collapse because the US economy would collapse quickly right after China's for the reasons given.



I agree with you on this. But I will add to this what I wrote in a previous post to Flapp, it is our military greatness and economic greatness that allows us to maintain our freedoms and opportunities. Without these, we will not be able to maintain our freedoms and opportunities and we will fall from the top spot.

That's the point I am trying to make for any nation.  A country can only sustain that level of military spending that is in the correct proportion to its economic output.  I argue that the US is spending too much on the military and not enough on those areas that can ensure its long-term viability.  The US is essentially hell bent on maintaining its World Power status at the cost of education, domestic infrastructure, clean water, medicine, and etc.  Hence short-term dominance is being sacrificed for long-term survival.



Merry Christmas!

Same to You!   

1.  As REN stated, your criticism is directed to a private online forum, not the gov't.  The Supreme Court has ruled that public gov't officials are required to allow everyone the opportunity to post opinions.  Those who abuse the privilege and break the social media site's rules of conduct can be blocked by the site, but not by the account owner.  Therefore, freedom of speech is being protected -- even online.  HOWEVER, freedom to speak does not include others providing you a free platform to do so, nor does it include a requirement that others accept your point of view as reasonable.

I like how you try to reframe the argument of things.



2.  You give out more personal attacks than you get.  Playing the victim card?  How Progressive of you!

You are joking right?

Look how many people have attacked or made derogatory comments to every response I make when I post, especially in this thread.



3.  Have you been banned from 2aHawaii?  Have your comments been deleted by the mods?  Since the answer is obviously, "no,", you have no evidence for claiming your speech has been restricted in any way.

I have never been banned from this forum because I never personally attack anyone every time they posted something that I don't agree with.  I offer differing views and rebuttals and have been personally attacked for them.



I rest my case.

Are you a practicing attorney?

On foreign bases. If we were to fight a war would you rather fight it in Pyongyang or Honolulu?
Seems to me the last time we fought a war in Honolulu we got our butts kicked.
Democrats do such a great job of protecting America. /s
I don't think we deploy strategic weapons on foreign bases. Tactical weapons yes.
Given the modernization we have been doing lately. I don't think we will keep any future
nukes on foreign land.

I have never been banned from this forum because I never personally attack anyone every time they posted something that I don't agree with.  I offer differing views and rebuttals and have been personally attacked for them.

Of course no country would like to fight a war on its own soil.  However, don't you think that those nation's that house US military base within their borders feel the same way?  I do.

I also believe that many of them would rather not have US bases on their soil.  Okinawans, for example have since WWII argued against US bases on their island.  The Philippines also feel the same way and have succeeded from time to time to close the US bases in their country when they don't have an American puppet as their President.

What right does the US has to put military assets in foreign countries knowing full well that host nation would suffer the collateral damage should a conflict arise?

Responsible righteous republics would never go as far the US has currently done.  Only empires behave in such reckless hegemonic ways.

The term "fascist goons" come to mind.

That was a term to describe the type of people of this forum who characteristically supports military interventions blindly as well as viciously attacks any poster who points out any actions of excessive force or brutality by police.

Is this you?

Well, you are a minority sell-out fascist goon, who despises anything minorities think, say, or believe, if they do not adhere to the fascist tenants of the ultra-wealthy corporatocracy in supporting unaccountable militarism and surrendering your personal liberties to the police.

Your perspective of US military bases is 2 dimensional. They not only provide defensive and offensive capabilities but offer humanitarian aid and disaster relief. A good example is one you just mentioned. Okinawa. Forward deployed assets that respond to natural disasters in that part of the world.

Here is the document that drives defense guidance and begins on page 4
https://www.pacom.mil/Portals/55/Documents/Defense_Strategic_Guidance.pdf?ver=2013-10-24-153659-393

Apparently you think so and you made a reference to my race as well.

Wow, I am usually accused of playing the VICTIM.

I must be in the twilight zone, who is playing the victim now?   

Wow, I am usually accused of playing the VICTIM.

I must be in the twilight zone, who is playing the victim now?   

Wow, I am usually accused of playing the VICTIM.

I must be in the twilight zone, who is playing the victim now?   

Patriotic correctness is just as annoying and destructive as political correctness.

You are allowed to love your country and still criticize it because that criticism is necessary for course correction. Remember how they used to talk about the Titanic as unsinkable? I am sure there were people still making that point even as the ship was going down.

It is amazing to see the many interpretations of my initial post to this thread where my intention was only to offer a differing view to this thread's original premise.



"The US is still the World's only true military superpower, but China will supplant that sometime in this century.  Moreover, the US is no longer and has not been the greatest nation on the planet for some time now.  Here are some non-military US-vs-China statistics to prove it, with many you can't deny some of which will lead the US to its ultimate demise."

In my opening paragraph, I offered a differing view to the position that the USA is great, presumably the greatest nation on Earth.  My use of the word "you" was meant rhetorically and I can see how that may have led you to believe otherwise.



Economics (According to WorldPopulationView.com)
National Debt: $23.08 Trillion (US - 1st),  $1.84 Trillion (China - not in top ten)
Debt to GDP ratio: 105.4% (US - 7th),  15% (China - not in top ten)


Education (Based on the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development's Program for International Student Assessment, 2018)
Reading:  505 (US - not in top ten),  555 (China - 1st)
Math:  478 (US - not in top ten),  591 (China - 1st)
Science:  502 (US - not in top ten),  590 (China - 1st)


In the next two paragraphs, I offered some economic and education statistics that I utilized to support my differing point of view.



"In looking at the disparity of economics and education alone in both nations, it is clear which country is on the rise and which is not.  Moreover, it is easier to understand why the US can't be considered the greatest nation in the World and why some believe China has the potential to replace the US in that regard in its future as well."

In my fourth paragraph, I make a statement reaffirming my differing point of view that was supported from the economic and education statistics I presented.



"As for the military, the US has the best military in the World, but despite its dominance, can't maintain a nation's greatness alone.  Rome did not fall because its military establishment failed them per se.  It was their military overstretch coupled with its imperial debt that had a lot to do with that."

In my final paragraph, I reaffirm the dominance of the US military relative to the other nations of the planet, but state that such dominance can't maintain a nation's level of greatness indefinitely.  I support that view with an analogy from what history has pointed out were some the major factors that caused the Roman Empire's final demise.



"Merry Christmas!"

I end my post with a salutation appropriate to the holidays.

It's another to whine "The US is an imperialistic, capitalistic, fascist, oppressive, tyrannical bully, and we are the cause of most of the turmoil and suffering in the world."

That's not patriotism.  That borderline subversive.

I guess somebody should have told the Okinawans that.

Just early this year, the Okinawans voted: NO to building a new base on their soil.  However, US imperialism WILL NOT BE DENIED as the US will build their new base even though the Okinawans clearly don't want them anywhere on their island.


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/feb/24/okinawa-referendum-rejects-new-us-military-base-but-abe-likely-to-press-on

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/in-japans-okinawa-voters-deliver-a-resounding-no-to-new-us-military-base/2019/02/24/95283a46-3858-11e9-b786-d6abcbcd212a_story.html

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-japan-okinawa/japan-to-push-ahead-with-u-s-base-relocation-despite-okinawa-referendum-result-idUSKCN1QE06Q

Your comments regarding patriotism are very interesting.

Based on your interpretation, aren't those comments that demonize Democrats, Liberals, and Progressives alike just as subversive?  Do you recall the mass quantity of negativity and disdain for President Obama during his administration on this very forum.  Moreover, are you blind to the unending hate harangues against Democrats, Liberals, and Progressives that often pervade in the many current posts on this forum today?  Since many who are the subjects of these tirades are in political power in the US today, shouldn't such individuals who make those comments be labeled as subversives or even traitors themselves?

As a believer and practitioner of free speech, I personally do not get bothered and patriotically support the right for anything anyone has to say.  Do You?