The Trump Report (Read 44331 times)

Flapp_Jackson

Re: The Trump Report
« Reply #60 on: October 07, 2020, 09:05:19 PM »
Same way we lock down many services....theres a mixture of security measures that keep accounts safe.  Its why your bank account, unemployment etc isnt hacked daily.  The best way is 2 factor authentication or greater security where you ensure a level of security I would argue is greater than our methods of voting currently. Ideally we would bio secure the elections, no amount of hacking will crack that.  Its beyond secure.

I've had my VA/Military record information stolen.

Government security.

I've had my Social Security information stolen.

Government Security.

I've had my Air Force personnel information stolen.

Government Security.

I worked in Military & Gov't IT for 32 years.  We had no end to the security breaches -- more often than not because a USER did something they were trained annually not to do.

We had classified systems hacked into during every single IT exercise.  All it took was ONE user to run an application they thought was legit, and the Black Hats had unfettered access.

Please don't lecture about how the same government is going to prevent our voter registration accounts from being hacked. 

It's not a matter of IF they will be hacked, but WHEN.  The biggest threat will be insiders with access and information on which accounts are dormant -- ripe targets for voting in someone else's place.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

omnigun

Re: The Trump Report
« Reply #61 on: October 07, 2020, 09:14:42 PM »
I've had my VA/Military record information stolen.

Government security.

I've had my Social Security information stolen.

Government Security.

I've had my Air Force personnel information stolen.

Government Security.

I worked in Military & Gov't IT for 32 years.  We had no end to the security breaches -- more often than not because a USER did something they were trained annually not to do.

We had classified systems hacked into during every single IT exercise.  All it took was ONE user to run an application they thought was legit, and the Black Hats had unfettered access.

Please don't lecture about how the same government is going to prevent our voter registration accounts from being hacked. 

It's not a matter of IF they will be hacked, but WHEN.  The biggest threat will be insiders with access and information on which accounts are dormant -- ripe targets for voting in someone else's place.

You know that's all possible with our current election equipment right? 

I said 2 factor and bio security, of which is basically unhackable from the user point of view.  There is ways to harden the backend but if you secure it properly it would be quite hard to seemlessly hack it and change it.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: The Trump Report
« Reply #62 on: October 07, 2020, 09:15:36 PM »
Of the top 10 government data breaches in the US, #1 just happens to be a voter registration database.

Quote
In the largest government data breach to date, a database of 191 million voters was exposed in late 2015.
Again, and almost unfathomably, the problem came down to human error and oversight: the database was
incorrectly configured and exposed on the open Internet. It contained the personal information – names,
dates of birth, party affiliations, emails, addresses, and more – of all registered voters in the 50 states and
the District of Columbia.

Quote
10. State of Texas: 3.5 Million Affected (April 2011)
9. South Carolina Department of Revenue: 3.6 Million Affected (October 2012)
8. Tricare: 4.9 Million Affected (September 2011)
7. Georgia Secretary of State Office: 6.2 Million Affected (November 2015)
6. Office of the Texas Attorney General: 6.5 Million Affected (April 2012)
5. Virginia Department of Health Professions: 8.3 Million Affected (May 2009)
4. U.S. Office of Personnel Management (OPM): 21.5 Million (June 2015)
3. U.S. Department of Veteran Affairs: 26.5 Million Affected (May 2006)
2. National Archives and Records Administration (NARA): 76 Million Affected (October 2009)
1. U.S. Voter Database: 191 Million Affected (December 2015)

https://digitalguardian.com/blog/top-10-biggest-us-government-data-breaches-all-time

Design as much security into the system you want, but you can't fix human nature.  The more complicated the security becomes, the higher the risk someone will screw up.  Complicated, lengthy passwords means people will write them down, save them in a password keeper, or paste them into a plain file.  Social engineering is still one of the most effective methods for hacking systems with "unbreakable" security.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Flapp_Jackson

Re: The Trump Report
« Reply #63 on: October 07, 2020, 09:16:16 PM »
You know that's all possible with our current election equipment right? 

I said 2 factor and bio security, of which is basically unhackable from the user point of view.  There is ways to harden the backend but if you secure it properly it would be quite hard to seemlessly hack it and change it.

Really?  Since when are voting machines connected to the Internet?
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Flapp_Jackson

Re: The Trump Report
« Reply #64 on: October 07, 2020, 09:22:11 PM »
These are the people trying to force the nation to vote using procedures they decided upon:

2020 Iowa Democratic presidential caucuses

Quote
Following a three-day delay in vote reporting, the Iowa Democratic Party declared that Buttigieg had won two more delegates than Sanders, while Sanders won the popular vote.[4] A majority of media organizations declared Buttigieg the winner,[5] while the Associated Press declined to declare a winner until all subsequent recanvass/recount processes had been concluded.[6][7] The official result and calculation of pledged national convention delegates was further delayed until six days after the election due to the need for a correction of reported results from 3.1% (55) of the precincts.[8][9] Buttigieg and Sanders then requested a partial recanvass for 8.1% of the official result,[10][11][12] which resulted in Buttigieg's lead over Sanders narrowing to 0.08 SDEs.[13] A final recount for 63 of the recanvassed precincts (3.6% of all results) was requested by both campaigns on February 19.[14][15] Two days later, the Iowa Democratic Party announced that it had accepted recount requests for 23 precincts (1.3% of all results).[16] The recounts took place from February 25 to February 27.[17] The Iowa Democratic Party announced the results of the recounts on February 27, 2020;[18] the results were certified by the state committee on February 29.[19]

The 2020 Iowa Democratic caucuses were controversial due to the delays in reporting the results. These delays were caused in part by problems with a mobile application created by Shadow Inc. that was used to report voting totals. Further controversy resulted from errors and inconsistencies regarding the calculation and reporting of state delegate equivalents (SDEs) in several caucus locations.[20][21][22][23][24] The counting delays and calculation errors relating to the reporting of precinct results led to the future of the caucuses being called into doubt.[25] Iowa Democratic Party chair Troy Price resigned on February 12 due to the chaos surrounding the 2020 Iowa Democratic caucuses.[26]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Iowa_Democratic_presidential_caucuses
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

omnigun

Re: The Trump Report
« Reply #65 on: October 07, 2020, 09:27:54 PM »
Really?  Since when are voting machines connected to the Internet?

took .02 seconds on google and first on the search

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/elections/online-vulnerable-experts-find-nearly-three-dozen-u-s-voting-n1112436

omnigun

Re: The Trump Report
« Reply #66 on: October 07, 2020, 09:31:39 PM »
Of the top 10 government data breaches in the US, #1 just happens to be a voter registration database.

https://digitalguardian.com/blog/top-10-biggest-us-government-data-breaches-all-time

Design as much security into the system you want, but you can't fix human nature.  The more complicated the security becomes, the higher the risk someone will screw up.  Complicated, lengthy passwords means people will write them down, save them in a password keeper, or paste them into a plain file.  Social engineering is still one of the most effective methods for hacking systems with "unbreakable" security.

I know someone of your mindset probably doesn't know much of the newer tech but there are many non password options now.  Hardware tokens, 2 factor, etc.  I deploy 2 factor on my department.   I know it doesn't fit your agenda but you cant ignore the future.  I wait for the day bio security devices are popular enough.  Then user based hacking will be void. 

macsak

Re: The Trump Report
« Reply #67 on: October 07, 2020, 09:39:20 PM »
I know someone of your mindset probably doesn't know much of the newer tech but there are many non password options now.  Hardware tokens, 2 factor, etc.  I deploy 2 factor on my department.   I know it doesn't fit your agenda but you cant ignore the future.  I wait for the day bio security devices are popular enough.  Then user based hacking will be void.

i know someone of your mindset doesn't know much about reading comprehension
i said CURRENT technology
a tiny, tiny, tiny percentage of the country has biosecurity readers or hardware tokens readily available
nor does everyone have reliable internet/cell data or the intellect/common sense to use the two factor authentication
can't only limit the election to those few people...

Flapp_Jackson

Re: The Trump Report
« Reply #68 on: October 07, 2020, 09:39:52 PM »
took .02 seconds on google and first on the search

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/elections/online-vulnerable-experts-find-nearly-three-dozen-u-s-voting-n1112436

Thanks for proving my point.  Government agencies responsible for securing our vote don't have a clue.   :geekdanc: :thumbsup:
« Last Edit: October 07, 2020, 09:56:15 PM by Flapp_Jackson »
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Flapp_Jackson

Re: The Trump Report
« Reply #69 on: October 07, 2020, 09:55:51 PM »
I know someone of your mindset probably doesn't know much of the newer tech but there are many non password options now.  Hardware tokens, 2 factor, etc.  I deploy 2 factor on my department.   I know it doesn't fit your agenda but you cant ignore the future.  I wait for the day bio security devices are popular enough.  Then user based hacking will be void.

You're a moron to try and talk down to me.  Just stop.

From PKI to satellite encryption, I've done it all.  I was using remailers and PGP before it was sued and force to change their encryption engines.

For 24 years, I worked for the largest employee-owned high tech and scientific company in the nation.

BTW, hardware tokens are fine for smaller organizations.  For something like nationwide voter record security, the cost, administration hassles and problems caused by users losing, washing or forgetting how to use them would make the solution nonviable.  Imagine on election day, 2 hours before the deadline to vote, 20% of registered voters try to get support because they can't log in.  Every problem from dead batteries to upgrading their PC (no longer has the OTP software installed or not registered for the HW token to work).

My company of 12,000 stopped issuing hardware token keys in favor of OTP apps that can run on mobile devices. 

With every solution in IT security, there are trade-offs.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

omnigun

Re: The Trump Report
« Reply #70 on: October 07, 2020, 10:02:00 PM »
i know someone of your mindset doesn't know much about reading comprehension
i said CURRENT technology
a tiny, tiny, tiny percentage of the country has biosecurity readers or hardware tokens readily available
nor does everyone have reliable internet/cell data or the intellect/common sense to use the two factor authentication
can't only limit the election to those few people...

If I can get hundreds of people born before technology many older than you to be able to do 2  factor,  I'm pretty sure the average citizen can.  Again its an option not mandatory....more options the mo better.

omnigun

Re: The Trump Report
« Reply #71 on: October 07, 2020, 10:05:57 PM »
You're a moron to try and talk down to me.  Just stop.

From PKI to satellite encryption, I've done it all.  I was using remailers and PGP before it was sued and force to change their encryption engines.

For 24 years, I worked for the largest employee-owned high tech and scientific company in the nation.

BTW, hardware tokens are fine for smaller organizations.  For something like nationwide voter record security, the cost, administration hassles and problems caused by users losing, washing or forgetting how to use them would make the solution nonviable.  Imagine on election day, 2 hours before the deadline to vote, 20% of registered voters try to get support because they can't log in.  Every problem from dead batteries to upgrading their PC (no longer has the OTP software installed or not registered for the HW token to work).

My company of 12,000 stopped issuing hardware token keys in favor of OTP apps that can run on mobile devices. 

With every solution in IT security, there are trade-offs.

I agree on hardware token, its not practical.  I admit i got a little testy that you kept ignoring 2 factor sorry.  You keep talking down to me,  why not flip it around once in a while lol.  Everyone and their mother have smart phones.  A simple app tied to a phone number will decently secure the entire election.  Coupled with captcha and IP screening and SS # and other personal identifiable information you have a very secure election using TODAYS technology. 

macsak

Re: The Trump Report
« Reply #72 on: October 07, 2020, 10:10:17 PM »
If I can get hundreds of people born before technology many older than you to be able to do 2  factor,  I'm pretty sure the average citizen can.  Again its an option not mandatory....more options the mo better.

the are more than "hundreds" of people in the US eligible to vote...

macsak

Re: The Trump Report
« Reply #73 on: October 07, 2020, 10:11:59 PM »
I agree on hardware token, its not practical.  I admit i got a little testy that you kept ignoring 2 factor sorry.  You keep talking down to me,  why not flip it around once in a while lol.  Everyone and their mother have smart phones.  A simple app tied to a phone number will decently secure the entire election.  Coupled with captcha and IP screening and SS # and other personal identifiable information you have a very secure election using TODAYS technology.

not true
plus not everyone has reliable service nor the intellect/common sense to use the phone for two factor (and now you add captcha and ip screening to try and act like you are still correct)

omnigun

Re: The Trump Report
« Reply #74 on: October 07, 2020, 10:23:56 PM »
not true
plus not everyone has reliable service nor the intellect/common sense to use the phone for two factor (and now you add captcha and ip screening to try and act like you are still correct)

What part of option do you not understand? 

op·tion
/ˈäpSH(ə)n/
1. a thing that is or may be chosen.

If you cant use the new method feel free to vote in person or by mail.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: The Trump Report
« Reply #75 on: October 07, 2020, 10:49:36 PM »
I agree on hardware token, its not practical.  I admit i got a little testy that you kept ignoring 2 factor sorry.  You keep talking down to me,  why not flip it around once in a while lol.  Everyone and their mother have smart phones.  A simple app tied to a phone number will decently secure the entire election.  Coupled with captcha and IP screening and SS # and other personal identifiable information you have a very secure election using TODAYS technology.

I only talk down to you when you act like a snot-nose little know-it-all.  I was doing data reduction on AWACS missions when I was 23.

Everyone and their mother also has a ton of spam emails, texts and phone calls trying to get their information and money.

The crooks keep doing it because it works often enough to make it worth the trouble.

"Hi, this is Angie from the Honolulu Voter Registration Department.  We're just calling to update your information for the next election ..."
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Flapp_Jackson

Re: The Trump Report
« Reply #76 on: October 07, 2020, 10:53:01 PM »
A scam targeting Americans over the phone has resulted in
millions of dollars lost to hackers. Don't be the next


https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/27/business/phishing-bank-scam-trnd/index.html

You'll never convince me that the population is capable of keeping ANY system secure.  This stuff resulted in the victims losing their MONEY.  Imagine what'll happen when people are asked to grant access to something that doesn't cost them anything of tangible value -- like their votes.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

macsak

Re: The Trump Report
« Reply #77 on: October 07, 2020, 11:06:33 PM »
What part of option do you not understand? 

op·tion
/ˈäpSH(ə)n/
1. a thing that is or may be chosen.

If you cant use the new method feel free to vote in person or by mail.

you are only adding "option" now

you stated this morning "even online voting is the future."
and i asked how that could be secure using current technology
and when you get shot down, you claim it's an option
try again...

omnigun

Re: The Trump Report
« Reply #78 on: October 08, 2020, 06:21:26 AM »
you are only adding "option" now

you stated this morning "even online voting is the future."
and i asked how that could be secure using current technology
and when you get shot down, you claim it's an option
try again...

Yes in the future it can be the only method.  You keep saying right now so I said how it could happen in todays world.  But in todaus world it would have to be done as an option.

omnigun

Re: The Trump Report
« Reply #79 on: October 08, 2020, 06:28:22 AM »
I only talk down to you when you act like a snot-nose little know-it-all.  I was doing data reduction on AWACS missions when I was 23.

Everyone and their mother also has a ton of spam emails, texts and phone calls trying to get their information and money.

The crooks keep doing it because it works often enough to make it worth the trouble.

"Hi, this is Angie from the Honolulu Voter Registration Department.  We're just calling to update your information for the next election ..."

You keep ignoring the fact that you need motivation.   Today all of these scams are possible. You can bribe people for votes. Steal Mail.  Do employee fraud. You can use stolen identity to vote in person or by Mail.  Request charge of address for ballots. Everything you fear of online can be applied to offline. Our current system isn't safe. But a majority of the time people don't.  There's little money and major risk.  You are correct any online system people can scam just like today its a risk but we shouldn't be afraid forever. Today's unemployment system there's scams but people mostly legitimate are getting in should we just abolish that online system because of a very few? There's something called acceptable risk.