Wait until those families who will sue because the Rail put the concrete supports in the path of their drunk driving family member. But eh, everyone else is responsible for their bad decision.

Waiting for the Protectors of the Land to chime in.  We've already had costly delays in the first 2 years caused by construction crews uncovering human remains.  Same thing that created part of the H-3 delays.

When talking about cost, we also have to recognize that this island has no real competition for major construction projects.  It's too expensive for mainland companies to submit bids.  Plus the government won't allow a competitor to use nonunion labor. 

Tax payers get screwed coming and going.  When the thing starts operations, any shortfalls in revenue vs costs will be paid by the people not riding the choo-choo.

I had a lot more questions than that posted above.
Sustain being a key one.

Re: population:
https://www.civilbeat.org/2019/04/hawaiis-population-decline-signals-future-economic-challenges/

From an environmental stand point, what does it matter where the cars are located ?
That’s still 15,000 To 30,000 more cars.

If you replace a lane with tracks on a two lane road with a bike path we’re all fawked all the time.

People can take the rail and not purchase a car.  Or people can actually just have less cars if they can use public transport.

People can take the rail and not purchase a car.  Or people can actually just have less cars if they can use public transport.

I hope that others will take the rail so I can keep my 4x4 lifted truck...otherwise no more flag convoys...

Waiting for the Protectors of the Land to chime in.  We've already had costly delays in the first 2 years caused by construction crews uncovering human remains.  Same thing that created part of the H-3 delays.

When talking about cost, we also have to recognize that this island has no real competition for major construction projects.  It's too expensive for mainland companies to submit bids.  Plus the government won't allow a competitor to use nonunion labor. 

Tax payers get screwed coming and going.  When the thing starts operations, any shortfalls in revenue vs costs will be paid by the people not riding the choo-choo.

Its as if you think the money just goes into the peoples wallets and goes poof you dont know how economics works.  Construction workers get paid, and guess what they go out and spend money too. And they pay taxes.

Its as if you think the money just goes into the peoples wallets and goes poof you dont know how economics works.  Construction workers get paid, and guess what they go out and spend money too. And they pay taxes.

that's an oversimplification of economics. There are inefficiencies as mentioned before, the lack of competition and govt regulation such as using only union labor.

I hope that others will take the rail so I can keep my 4x4 lifted truck...otherwise no more flag convoys...

Most people don;t live a neat, "point a to point b and back" life.  More like "home, work, food, shopping, appointments, night school, home."  Also, availability doesn't always coincide with your schedule.  If you need to get somewhere and noon, and the train goes there at 11:00, 12:00 & 1:00, you have to leave in time to make the early train, arrive at the destination station at 11:00, then make it to your 12:00 meeting.

The extra time wasted getting where you need to go before time to be there offsets any time you might save by not driving in traffic.

Then, just as you get on the train, it stops.  an hour later, they have you on your way.

that's an oversimplification of economics. There is inefficiencies as mentioned before, the lack of competition and govt regulation such as using only union labor.

Where’s the other “practicing economist”?

Where’s the other “practicing economist”?

I've studied economics at both the undergrad and graduate levels.  What I can say for certain is it is NOT a science.  While there are scientific methods for measuring current and past economic performance, there's no scientific formula for predicting which policies or laws will improve what we are currently seeing.

That's why people like Trump exist.  He can look at an array of reports and forecasts and decide what actions will best benefit the US.  It's an art.  No one will ever be perfect in that role, but so far, he's proven that his plans and policies accomplish the right things while simultaneously mitigating or minimizing the short term negative impacts.  I guarantee you the US would not be in an economic position to weather the pandemic as well as we have done had it not been for the 3 years of shear economic growth just prior.

Economists are the chiropractors of the financial world.  They make us feel better knowing there is data supporting our decisions, but they can't possibly factor in everything that influences the outcomes.  If they could, we'd be electing economists to run every level of government.  Strong economy = strong [ city | state | nation ]

Most people don;t live a neat, "point a to point b and back" life.  More like "home, work, food, shopping, appointments, night school, home."  Also, availability doesn't always coincide with your schedule.  If you need to get somewhere and noon, and the train goes there at 11:00, 12:00 & 1:00, you have to leave in time to make the early train, arrive at the destination station at 11:00, then make it to your 12:00 meeting.

The extra time wasted getting where you need to go before time to be there offsets any time you might save by not driving in traffic.

Then, just as you get on the train, it stops.  an hour later, they have you on your way.

If done right, it can work. But it comes with a change in lifestyle. Depending on context, the change can be big or minor. Also depends on motivation.

When I lived in WA, a downtown Seattle group subsidized bus passes, which was a $300/month saving over parking. While I didn’t like it at first, in retrospect it did have a lot of positives. The route I took had a bus ever 5-7 mins, so it was really convenient and actually saved over driving alone due to bus express lanes. There were limitations, like the timing between busses expanded after a certain time.

Somewhat similar to Japan. Lifestyles and commerce changed around the train system. Like the food and shopping really convenient at the station. Not quite the lifestyle I’d want, but not bad and I could’ve gotten used to it. Many friends to did TDY for 3-5 years there also learned to appreciate.

But, like anything, IF done properly can work. Huge if. When rail first came up, I felt it cools work if planned properly. Once I parallels to BART and the L, knew it was trouble. Totally different contexts.

I've studied economics at both the undergrad and graduate levels.  What I can say for certain is it is NOT a science.  While there are scientific methods for measuring current and past economic performance, there's no scientific formula for predicting which policies or laws will improve what we are currently seeing.

That's why people like Trump exist.  He can look at an array of reports and forecasts and decide what actions will best benefit the US.  It's an art.  No one will ever be perfect in that role, but so far, he's proven that his plans and policies accomplish the right things while simultaneously mitigating or minimizing the short term negative impacts.  I guarantee you the US would not be in an economic position to weather the pandemic as well as we have done had it not been for the 3 years of shear economic growth just prior.

Economists are the chiropractors of the financial world.  They make us feel better knowing there is data supporting our decisions, but they can't possibly factor in everything that influences the outcomes.  If they could, we'd be electing economists to run every level of government.  Strong economy = strong [ city | state | nation ]

I wasn’t referring to you. Not that you couldn’t reply.

That said, business courses in general were  for me.

Most the world doesn't pay much attention to Hawaii, but that rail will be a monument to the stupidity
of the Democrat party. Never have so few, paid so much, for such massive STUPIDITY.
I drove for years the most crowded roads in the world, Seattle, Los Angeles, San Francisco,
and even your Oahu "interstate" freeway parking lots.
I've used the BART,  Seattle area buses,  and ferry system.
Public transportation designed by Democrats doesn't work!
It neither satisfies economic realities or environmental ones.
I'd rather drive, if for any other reason than I don't like being
treated like cattle.
I'm an engineer and I can make any boondoggle look like a win-win
for everybody. It is only my morals that stop that sort of activity on
my part.  Not everybody has that sort of discipline, so you have
"Public transportation".
The people that pitched the Rail should have a silver stake driven
through the HART.
Adding to the injury,  us outer islands have to pay for something
we'll never use.
I vote for secession from Ohau and joining the state of Alaska.

It is an expensive boondoggle. And I know these politicians who promised not to raise property taxes for the rail are going to have to do it sooner or later. Once they start raising property taxes on Oahu next will be the outer islands. Of course the politicians who promised not to raise property taxes are long gone already. So the new ones coming in are going to tell everyone they don’t have a choice. They have to in order to keep the state solvent. Because of unforeseen costs. And now with COVID keeping the tax income low because they shut down all businesses where are they going to get the money to run the city, county and state?`

It is an expensive boondoggle. And I know these politicians who promised not to raise property taxes for the rail are going to have to do it sooner or later. Once they start raising property taxes on Oahu next will be the outer islands. Of course the politicians who promised not to raise property taxes are long gone already. So the new ones coming in are going to tell everyone they don’t have a choice. They have to in order to keep the state solvent. Because of unforeseen costs. And now with COVID keeping the tax income low because they shut down all businesses where are they going to get the money to run the city, county and state?`

That and also how some of the bigger contractors operate, a lot of the cash flow isn’t flowing back into Hawaii’s economy via income tax. Something apparently the “experts” are surely aware of.

you don't hear about rich economists

From last news I heard about rail, they had not even accounted for electricity supply  including step up transformers to power the dang thing and HECO wasn't going to supply or build a power grid for this beast. on their dime.
Opps, forgot to put that in the budget .
Feel free to enlighten me if I am behind the times.
Inquiring minds want to know.

 
And now with COVID keeping the tax income low because they shut down all businesses where are they going to get the money to run the city, county and state?`

 I am Sooooooo glad I am not a property owner

People can take the rail and not purchase a car. Or people can actually just have less cars if they can use public transport.

Yup, me and 450,000+ of others in my and similar area's will have to drive 30+ miles just to catch the train.    
How many sheets of ply and 2 x 4's am I allowed ? 

I am Sooooooo glad I am not a property owner

Yup, me and 450,000+ of others in my and similar area's will have to drive 30+ miles just to catch the train.    
How many sheets of ply and 2 x 4's am I allowed ? 

Lol,  what you are trying to do is centralize people.  If you  put 500 people in one building near the rail they don't all need cars.  They can travel less if a supermarket opens up nearby.  Overall less travel and more convenience. Instead of spreading everyone apart. 

From last news I heard about rail, they had not even accounted for electricity supply

I recall reading that a good while ago.  Brilliant management Honolulu voted in.

Lol,  what you are trying to do is centralize people.  If you  put 500 people in one building near the rail they don't all need cars.  They can travel less if a supermarket opens up nearby.  Overall less travel and more convenience. Instead of spreading everyone apart.

Yes, putting people in large concentrations is always a good idea.

It worked wonders in NYC, LA and Chicago when the pandemic hit.  NYC is still considered the pandemic epicenter of the world (highest infection rate).

But as long as it furthers the needs of the state, there's no need to worry about the freedoms of individuals who don't wish to live in those areas with normally higher crime.  Plus, if you live in a condo high rise, they can create rules stripping you of your guns -- for "safety".

I recall reading that a good while ago.  Brilliant management Honolulu voted in.

I remember reading that an alternative form of power was going to be needed for when the rail goes into full use. But I have not seen or hear anything about that since that came out. The article stated that a small generating station would be needed. And that this was never taken into account during thee original planning but everyone was warned by HECO that they couldn’t supply the entire amount of power needed. I can’t find the article now. Not sure if it was true or someone’s opinion.

Yes, putting people in large concentrations is always a good idea.

It worked wonders in NYC, LA and Chicago when the pandemic hit.  NYC is still considered the pandemic epicenter of the world (highest infection rate).

But as long as it furthers the needs of the state, there's no need to worry about the freedoms of individuals who don't wish to live in those areas with normally higher crime.  Plus, if you live in a condo high rise, they can create rules stripping you of your guns -- for "safety".

Guys like you set me off.
"they don't all need cars."
who the fvcvk are YOU to decide
what your fellow citizens "need"
I can tell you what your needs are and they are simple,
"the rule of Threes".
That is all you NEED!
Everything else is glazing on the Donuts.