Yeah but not everyone has one.  My parents and grandparents don't and they are higher risk.   Not always about me

they should stay home

Not only that, but the virus is much more highly contagious than the seasonal flu.  What does that mean?  It means the infection rates AND MORTALITY RATES are going to be much higher in the beginning, making 2020 predictably higher in deaths from COVID-19 well above average once we have another year living with it in the record books.  2021 will flatten those rates significantly.  The "death rate" will average out to much less than we are being told now.

In other words, it attacked swiftly before we understood anything about it.  We went from a projected 2M deaths to an actual 200K.  Most of the dead were in the beginning, as the high risk groups were not protected from contracting it.  Now, even without a vaccine, we are able to treat the infected much more successfully.  Trump haa already tested negative on consecutive days, less than 2 weeks after testing positive.  He's a testament to living without fear, and taking reasonable precautions while going about our daily lives.

FEAR is driving the people like OmniGrub.  Most people don't hide in isolation thinking a positive test equals a death sentence  They don't run in abject terror if they see someone not using a mask.

People die from the regular cold and flu -- which can progress into pneumonia very quickly.  I don't remember lockdowns during the several "worst cold and flu season in decades" I've seen reported.

Lots of contagious diseases around, and not everyone will be able to fight them after being infected.  It's just a fact. 

Waiting for OmniGrub to post pictures of himself modeling the latest in CDC-approved full body contamination suits.

Was discussing what you mentioned above with a close friend who is an infectious disease and immunology "type".  She's well read up on the studies and is good friends with some of the folks that have published many papers on COVID.  Despite her own fears and concerns, even she pointed out that it seemed like the "experts", some of which were her friends, were either getting coaxed to "supplement" their findings with opinion or didn't really fight when their reports were taken out of context.  I asked about the fear aspect and difference between COVID, flus, etc.  She said initially, a lot of it was the unknown (novel virus) and that the models predicted "bad, mutate, death, etc".  That after the data wasn't showing quite that, the fear perpetuated and that included with PhDs still working on COVID. 

Is the fear surrounding COVID because there's a sense of nothing you can really do about it, at least in the June to now timeframe.  Whereas with the flu, it's sort of accepted that with the vaccine, you have tried your best and despite best efforts, still have those that die due to complications.  Believe that's the case, but just MO. 

You laugh but I actually have bio and radiation suits.

So you have the clean/iso rooms to decontaminate the suits?

Otherwise you're no different than those who have been using nitrile gloves for protection, but remove them with their teeth before going back into their house. 

So you have the clean/iso rooms to decontaminate the suits?

Otherwise you're no different than those who have been using nitrile gloves for protection, but remove them with their teeth before going back into their house.

I do not,  I dont use them in public.  Bought those if we get nuked by N korea

I do not,  I dont use them in public.  Bought those if we get nuked by N korea

:facepalm:

They are going to end up being adult diapers.

:facepalm:

They are going to end up being adult diapers.

...
Zing
 

...
Zing
 

Bazinga

:facepalm:

They are going to end up being adult diapers.

That incorrectly assumes he's already out of kid size Pampers.

So pretty much everyone here is for the Constitution/Bill of Rights.  2a shall not be infringed, etc...

So if you were gov/mayor, what would you have done to combat CV?

Ige/Kirk mandated a 14 day quarantine for all those incoming, even if not sick.  Is this unconstitutional?  There is a part about freely being able to travel between states, but to me it sounds like  a loop hole. They are allowing people in the state (free travel), but once here, they have to stay home for 14 days.

For me, if I were in charge, Is there a part that protects business from being closed by the government?  But for churches, I would ask them to close temporary.  Key word is ask, not mandate.  And mention and stress the reason why I cannot do shut downs is because of the rights the people have (1a, freedom of religion).

People are welcome in from the US because the Constitution applies to them.  And unless proven they have Chyna-Virus (innocent until proven guilty), there is no need for 14 day quarantine.

Also plan for tent type medical centers with help from the guard in case hospitals get over run.


So my question mainly is a curious one because would we as pro 2a supporters treat this like how the anti 2a people do "I believe in the 2a right, but...).  "I believe in the constitution, but we should still make healthy people 14 day quarantine.  Stuff like that.

It really is a tough call because you are balancing a tough call to restrict some rights based on limited information in which under-reaction could cost hundreds of thousands of lives.

Honestly I don't know exactly how I would go about it.

I think some things I would forcefully close like businesses or events where people are in close proximity.

When it comes to other things, I would try, wherever possible, to implement safety measures through voluntary means. Peer pressure, education, positive incentives, etc. are preferable.

When it comes to travel, I think that may be an important step to protecting us. Our isolation is an advantage to us in these cases. Maybe there could be some sort of compromise. Maybe allow tourism but try to do so in a bubble. Set up something where tourists can visit certain locations and stay at certain hotels so they could still experience parts of Hawaii and we can still have some tourism money coming in but also reduce exposure.

This is just off the top of my head though.

Those are great ideas and could be useful for the next pandemic if it turns out to be worse than a very bad flu season. Too bad our government blew it’s load this time around because now that people are figuring out it was all a shameless power grab they will be much less likely to cooperate in the future.

It really is a tough call because you are balancing a tough call to restrict some rights based on limited information in which under-reaction could cost hundreds of thousands of lives.

Honestly I don't know exactly how I would go about it.

I think some things I would forcefully close like businesses or events where people are in close proximity.

When it comes to other things, I would try, wherever possible, to implement safety measures through voluntary means. Peer pressure, education, positive incentives, etc. are preferable.

When it comes to travel, I think that may be an important step to protecting us. Our isolation is an advantage to us in these cases. Maybe there could be some sort of compromise. Maybe allow tourism but try to do so in a bubble. Set up something where tourists can visit certain locations and stay at certain hotels so they could still experience parts of Hawaii and we can still have some tourism money coming in but also reduce exposure.

This is just off the top of my head though.

Those are great ideas and could be useful for the next pandemic if it turns out to be worse than a very bad flu season. Too bad our government blew it’s load this time around because now that people are figuring out it was all a shameless power grab they will be much less likely to cooperate in the future.

I don't think it was a power grab, I think they were just playing better safe than sorry. Heck it might be years before we can even process how effective/ineffective their decisions were.

I don't think it was a power grab, I think they were just playing better safe than sorry. Heck it might be years before we can even process how effective/ineffective their decisions were.

Democrat-run cities were in the worst shape.  New York City has been the epicenter of the pandemic almost every month since the US started reporting cases.

The DNC was hoping this crisis would be Trump's "Katrina."  Between the economic impact, a disease that nobody had information on, and the election drawing near, no matter what Trump did, he was going to be wrong.

Hindsight is 20/20, so criticism in those terms should be part of lessons learned, not Biden campaign ads.  In the moment, Biden called Trump's acts racist and xenophobic for a month.  Pelosi was telling people to gather in large numbers in China Town in March.  These are the same people saying Trump made bad decisions.

Governors of states had autonomy over their resources unless Trump enacted some extreme powers that are reserved for catastrophic events. He preferred to work WITH governors rather than take that authoritarian approach at the outset.  If things worsened, he still had that option.

Trump did what he needed to do given the information and advice available to him.  I trust his judgement way more than anyone on the Dem side.

Democrat-run cities were in the worst shape.  New York City has been the epicenter of the pandemic almost every month since the US started reporting cases.

The DNC was hoping this crisis would be Trump's "Katrina."  Between the economic impact, a disease that nobody had information on, and the election drawing near, no matter what Trump did, he was going to be wrong.

Hindsight is 20/20, so criticism in those terms should be part of lessons learned, not Biden campaign ads.  In the moment, Biden called Trump's acts racist and xenophobic for a month.  Pelosi was telling people to gather in large numbers in China Town in March.  These are the same people saying Trump made bad decisions.

Governors of states had autonomy over their resources unless Trump enacted some extreme powers that are reserved for catastrophic events. He preferred to work WITH governors rather than take that authoritarian approach at the outset.  If things worsened, he still had that option.

Trump did what he needed to do given the information and advice available to him.  I trust his judgement way more than anyone on the Dem side.

I think part of that is the fact that the most densely populated cities are democrat. I don't think it could be shown that being democrat led alone was the cause of the worst rates. NYC is one of the most crowded places on the planet and a huge travel hub. Not defending what NYC did though, I don't know enough to say what they did right and what they did wrong.

Trump made quite a few inexcusable mistakest in my opinion however he also did take a lot of flack that he didn't deserve as well. Pandemic response was really much more of a state and local thing than it is a national response. The president can do a few things to help out but I think the real decision makers are the governors. Governors are much better situated to direct a response based on the situation in the area.

I think part of that is the fact that the most densely populated cities are democrat. I don't think it could be shown that being democrat led alone was the cause of the worst rates. NYC is one of the most crowded places on the planet and a huge travel hub. Not defending what NYC did though, I don't know enough to say what they did right and what they did wrong.

Trump made quite a few inexcusable mistakest in my opinion however he also did take a lot of flack that he didn't deserve as well. Pandemic response was really much more of a state and local thing than it is a national response. The president can do a few things to help out but I think the real decision makers are the governors. Governors are much better situated to direct a response based on the situation in the area.

Katrina hit a state that was run by a Democrat governor, and New Orleans was under a Democrat Mayor.  The governor refused FEMA resources and assistance for a week, while Bush had truckloads of relief supplies sitting at the LA border.

Yet, somehow, the pain in LA was Bush's fault.

Same for the Dem governors and mayors under pandemic decisions.  They got 100% support from Trump's administration including facilities and personnel.  if they needed Trump to run the pandemic response for any reason, they only had to ask. 

We all know that high density living arrangements invite crime, disease, and other problems.  If NYC was not ready for the pandemic, that's their problem, not Trump's.  It's not like a few million extra people snuck into the state/city a week before the pandemic hit.  They should be preparing for the next medical catastrophe every quarter.  Was Giuliani prepared for 9/11?  No, but he had the experience and wisdom to direct resources as needed to manage the catastrophe as best he could.  Many lessons were learned, like making sure first responders' radios work inside these buildings now.  Most didn't get the message to evacuate the remaining tower after the first tower fell.

Anyway, if NYC can't handle the population density they have, then they need to look into ways to improve that or reduce the density.  Anything less is their negligence.  We've had several pandemics since I've been an adult.  NYC should not treat them as a "rarity".

We all know that high density living arrangements invite crime, disease, and other problems.  If NYC was not ready for the pandemic, that's their problem, not Trump's.  It's not like a few million extra people snuck into the state/city a week before the pandemic hit.  They should be preparing for the next medical catastrophe every quarter.  Was Giuliani prepared for 9/11?  No, but he had the experience and wisdom to direct resources as needed to manage the catastrophe as best he could.  Many lessons were learned, like making sure first responders' radios work inside these buildings now.  Most didn't get the message to evacuate the remaining tower after the first tower fell.

Let us not forget that Trump also came to ground zero and spent his own money to help.  He was just a businessman at the time.

It really is a tough call because you are balancing a tough call to restrict some rights based on limited information in which under-reaction could cost hundreds of thousands of lives.

Honestly I don't know exactly how I would go about it.

I think some things I would forcefully close like businesses or events where people are in close proximity.

When it comes to other things, I would try, wherever possible, to implement safety measures through voluntary means. Peer pressure, education, positive incentives, etc. are preferable.

When it comes to travel, I think that may be an important step to protecting us. Our isolation is an advantage to us in these cases. Maybe there could be some sort of compromise. Maybe allow tourism but try to do so in a bubble. Set up something where tourists can visit certain locations and stay at certain hotels so they could still experience parts of Hawaii and we can still have some tourism money coming in but also reduce exposure.

This is just off the top of my head though.

It is a tough call and 1 that no one else ever had to make.  I mean when Vegas had to close the casino's, you know it's bad.  I'm just seeing what other options there might have been that I never thought about.  But of course hindsight is a huge factor as well.

Personally, I do think it was def a tough call, especially initially when there was so little known about the virus.  Lots of questions about what was credible, as well as lots of blaming everyone else.  One big thing I hated (and still hate) is the politicizing and political weaponizing of the issue.  I keep going back to Green.  That fuzzer is un-fricken-real.  As much as I hate Ige, Green was the little taddling younger brother in the background.  Was Green right about some things?  I think so, but it's easy to question and second guess and come out looking like a "champion of the people" when there's an election looming (albeit 2+ years away). 

Personally, I do think it was def a tough call, especially initially when there was so little known about the virus.  Lots of questions about what was credible, as well as lots of blaming everyone else.  One big thing I hated (and still hate) is the politicizing and political weaponizing of the issue.  I keep going back to Green.  That fuzzer is un-fricken-real.  As much as I hate Ige, Green was the little taddling younger brother in the background.  Was Green right about some things?  I think so, but it's easy to question and second guess and come out looking like a "champion of the people" when there's an election looming (albeit 2+ years away).

And the fact that there are pics of him not wearing his mask property says a lot.  I'm not a doctor, but when I'm out of my bubble, my mask is always on correctly.  And as a real doctor, he should know better.

The issue I have with CV, like you mentioned, a lot of it is political and not in the peoples best interest.

I don't think it was a power grab, I think they were just playing better safe than sorry. Heck it might be years before we can even process how effective/ineffective their decisions were.

By June it was obvious that this was nothing more than a bad flu season, yet we are still forced to wear masks and deal with lockdowns. Democratic leaders who are forcing their citizens to comply do not even believe in masks and lockdowns for themselves. Ige even took the opportunity to form secret commissions and scoff at sunshine laws. Next thing I suppose will be forcing everyone to take untested vaccines and submit to more government surveillance. This is the very definition of a power grab.