Some should learn to stay within their swimlane and not post stuff just because they believe it to be true. It’s one thing to post stuff like that in the political threads, but they don’t belong in the technical sections. JMHO

Not really, this has been argued many times.   See previous posts which might I add said the same thing but perhaps better worded. 

Amazing but Flapp basically explained it and Aiea followed up:

The grey is in that AR’s cannot be registered as a pistol if the mag is detachable.
Therefore, a detachable AR/AK mag cannot be used in a legal pistol in Hawaii.
There are a bunch of AR pistols in Hawaii with fixed (welded) magazines which are no longer detachable.
There is even a thread on how to make one legal and what methods of securing the mag to the receiver are acceptable to HPD. (Again, kind of a crap shoot.)

That statement is false.  If HPD is saying that's their policy, then they are not following the law.

If you don't make the pistol semi-auto (single-shot bolt-action only, where you cycle it by hand), then you've satisfied the definition and made it HI compliant.

That statement is false.  If HPD is saying that's their policy, then they are not following the law.

If you don't make the pistol semi-auto (single-shot bolt-action only, where you cycle it by hand), then you've satisfied the definition and made it HI compliant.

Its not an "assault rifle/pistol" if its not semi automatic...

One thing of note (at least IMO) is what constitutes compliance.  Is it per the HRS?  Or per someone in HPD Firearms Division? 

Law vs implementation. . .

Its not an "assault rifle" if its not semi automatic...

Ok.  Where is that stated/documented? 

Its not an "assault rifle" if its not semi automatic...

Who said anything in this thread about assault rifles?

#NoFocus

Ok.  Where is that stated/documented?

He's babbling about rifles now.   

The first line of the "Assault pistol" definition states:

"Assault pistol" means a semiautomatic pistol that accepts a detachable magazine and has two or more of the following characteristics:

So, if you disable/never install a gas system in an AR pistol, it's not semi-auto.  Therefore, nothing else in the definition applies.

Ok.  Where is that stated/documented?

The ATF and the federal/state government:
The definition varies among regulating jurisdictions but usually includes semi-automatic firearms with a detachable magazine, a pistol grip and sometimes other features such as a vertical forward grip, flash suppressor or barrel shroud.


You CAN'T own a semi automatic assault pistol in Hawaii.  As my original post has stated, truthfully. 
You can own a pistol, you can own a assault rifle.  You can't own an assault pistol.  The definition changes after Hawaii regulations are enforced,  to be legal there is no scenario where you get an ar15 style pistol that's semi automatic and can accept detachable mags.

He's babbling about rifles now.   

The first line of the "Assault pistol" definition states:

So, if you disable/never install a gas system in an AR pistol, it's not semi-auto.  Therefore, nothing else in the definition applies.

Thanks for realizing this.

The government has made is quite clear over the years that exacting matching is important that's why they arbitrarily say a certain amount of parts must be American,  what length it must be,  grips and other accessories, etc.

i am not arguing what flapp said, i was saying your word salad you posted proves you have nothing to add to the thread...

Amazing but Flapp basically explained it fairly well:

AR mags have existed in a "grayish area", due to the banning of AR pistols as manufactured.  All factory AR pistols have detachable mags.  While the most common method of making an AR pistol HI compliant is to epoxy/weld the mag into the magwell, making it impossible to insert a 20rd or 30rd AR mag, it's not the only method to become compliant.  As a side note, once you make the mag nondetachable, the 10rd limit no longer applies, so you could weld a 30rd mag into the pistol and be compliant.

Aiea followed up:

The grey is in that AR’s cannot be registered as a pistol if the mag is detachable.
Therefore, a detachable AR/AK mag cannot be used in a legal pistol in Hawaii.
There are a bunch of AR pistols in Hawaii with fixed (welded) magazines which are no longer detachable.
There is even a thread on how to make one legal and what methods of securing the mag to the receiver are acceptable to HPD. (Again, kind of a crap shoot.)

Not really, this has been argued many times.   See previous posts which might I add said the same thing but perhaps better worded.

those posts didn't say the same thing, because they actually made sense and followed the law

"perhaps better worded" is this week's "my bad"...

those posts didn't say the same thing, because they actually made sense and followed the law

"perhaps better worded" is this week's "my bad"...

Please show me where I made a mistake in my post or wasn't clear or was not following the law:

Legally in Hawaii you can't own "assault pistols".  Thus there is no such thing.  Once a rifle,  always a rifle.   No conversions according to the ATF.  You must purchase a "pistol" receiver or a non labeled receiver and declare it a pistol.  And you must register said receiver under your name,  after you do so you will no longer be able to own or purchase standard capacity mags.

If confused refer to my previous 2 posts. 

FYI HPD will not let you do the last part.  So you technically can never not be able to own or purchase standard capacity mags.

i am not arguing what flapp said, i was saying your word salad you posted proves you have nothing to add to the thread...

Yep.  He chose his screen name intentionally, as he believes himself to be omnipotent.

His unintelligible gobbledy goop isn't worth arguing over.  We are relegated to becoming OmniGrub whisperers so we can reiterate what he said in understandable English.

It's bad enough when he's wrong and can't articulate, but even worse when he's right.  We have to spend our time translating so people don't misunderstand what he sort-of said -- IOW, what he meant to say.

The ATF and the federal/state government:
The definition varies among regulating jurisdictions but usually includes semi-automatic firearms with a detachable magazine, a pistol grip and sometimes other features such as a vertical forward grip, flash suppressor or barrel shroud.


You CAN'T own a semi automatic assault pistol in Hawaii.  As my original post has stated, truthfully. 
You can own a pistol, you can own a assault rifle.  You can't own an assault pistol.  The definition changes after Hawaii regulations are enforced,  to be legal there is no scenario where you get an ar15 style pistol that's semi automatic and can accept detachable mags.

In the HRS. . . :facepalm:

And yes, I am aware of the ATF definition, or attempt at.  But does Hawaii follow ATF?  All ATF definitions.  That's the point. . .

Damn. . .

i am not arguing what flapp said, i was saying your word salad you posted proves you have nothing to add to the thread...

Precisely what I was getting at.  When he is grasping for answers, he's just looking for stuff that he "feels" backs up his position.  In this case, many of us have gone over this dozens of times. 

Please show me where I made a mistake in my post or wasn't clear or was not following the law:

If confused refer to my previous 2 posts. 

FYI HPD will not let you do the last part.  So you technically can never not be able to own or purchase standard capacity mags.

"Legally in Hawaii you can't own "assault pistols".  Thus there is no such thing.  Once a rifle,  always a rifle.   No conversions according to the ATF.  You must purchase a "pistol" receiver or a non labeled receiver and declare it a pistol.  And you must register said receiver under your name,  after you do so you will no longer be able to own or purchase standard capacity mags. "
nowhere in ATF rules or HRS does it state this...
and the whole post was not clear at all, except for the first sentence

"Legally in Hawaii you can't own "assault pistols".  Thus there is no such thing.  Once a rifle,  always a rifle.   No conversions according to the ATF.  You must purchase a "pistol" receiver or a non labeled receiver and declare it a pistol.  And you must register said receiver under your name,  after you do so you will no longer be able to own or purchase standard capacity mags. "
nowhere in ATF rules or HRS does it state this...
and the whole post was not clear at all, except for the first sentence

Hpd will not allow you to register an ar15 lower as a pistol lower without modifications to make it not an assault pistol  If they did then that rule would technically apply. 

Hpd will not allow you to register an ar15 lower as a pistol lower without modifications to make it not an assault pistol  If they did then that rule would technically apply.

so you made a definitive statement, but then qualify it when challenged with "if they did then that rule would technically apply"
but you are not wrong...

For macsak. . .

§134-1  Definitions.  As used in this chapter, unless the context indicates otherwise:

     "Assault pistol" means a semiautomatic pistol that accepts a detachable magazine and has two or more of the following characteristics

Or do I owe him a "my bad"?    

Legally in Hawaii you can't own "assault pistols".  Thus there is no such thing.
...

By that stellar logic, there should be no penalties in the statute for possession of an assault pistol, because you can't possess something that doesn't exist ("no such thing").

Stop trying to Omni-splain everything.  This is NOT your area of expertise (which has yet to be determined).

You can't "legally own" suppressors, short-barrel rifles, pistol mags over 10rds, fully automatic firearms, nor any other NFA controlled item, so I guess none of those exist in the state, either.  Try Googling those items as they relate to arrests in Hawaii.  I BET YOU there are many stories where these items are "a thing."  I know.  I checked.

Your perception of reality is still governed by what the courts and lawmakers dictate to you, even though reality and the legal system are often at odds with one another.