withdrawal from Afghanistan, bad idea? (Read 153604 times)

Kuleana

Re: withdrawal from Afghanistan, bad idea?
« Reply #880 on: November 05, 2021, 10:43:04 AM »
IMPEACHABLE OFFENSE: Joe Biden Abandoned THOUSANDS of Americans and as many as 14,000 in Afghanistan When US Fled Country

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/11/impeachable-offense-joe-biden-abandoned-thousands-americans-many-14000-afghanistan-us-fled-country/

Joe Biden and the Woke Generals abandoned THOUSANDS of Americans in Afghanistan and as many as 14,000 during their quick escape from the terrorist-controlled country.
And then they left the Taliban with $80 billion in US arms.
New figures released by the State Department reveal as many as 14,000 Americans were left to fend for themselves when Biden and the woke generals quickly fled the country due to their artificial timeline.
What and why were those 14,000 non-military American idiots doing in Afghanistan in the first place?

Were they taking classes to learn the language or Sharia law?  Was that the cheapest place they could afford to take a vacation or spend time at their timeshare?

 :wtf:

changemyoil66

Re: withdrawal from Afghanistan, bad idea?
« Reply #881 on: November 05, 2021, 11:42:29 AM »
What and why were those 14,000 non-military American idiots doing in Afghanistan in the first place?

Were they taking classes to learn the language or Sharia law?  Was that the cheapest place they could afford to take a vacation or spend time at their timeshare?

 :wtf:

I'm no expert, but could be contractors. Truckers, translators, eletricians, plumbers, construction workers, etc... Then of course CIA and other mercenaries.

Kuleana

Re: withdrawal from Afghanistan, bad idea?
« Reply #882 on: November 05, 2021, 11:58:09 AM »
I'm no expert, but could be contractors. Truckers, translators, eletricians, plumbers, construction workers, etc... Then of course CIA and other mercenaries.
Well, all of those Americans should have known that the US empire was illegally occupying that nation when they decided to go to Afghanistan.  Since they had to have known the risks of being there for whatever reason, the fact they are still stuck in that failed state is their own fault and should find their own way out.

hvybarrels

Re: withdrawal from Afghanistan, bad idea?
« Reply #883 on: November 05, 2021, 12:07:56 PM »
Well, all of those Americans should have known that the US empire was illegally occupying that nation when they decided to go to Afghanistan.  Since they had to have known the risks of being there for whatever reason, the fact they are still stuck in that failed state is their own fault and should find their own way out.

And that's why there never will be another Hawaiian Kingdom. No statesmen among you. Just feelings-feelings-feelings without the slightest understanding of the political consequences of your words or actions.

But oh yeah, the rest of the world is going to step in and restore you to power any day now. Just keep sitting there with your begging bowl stuck and wait for your rescuers to show up.
Pretending to be offended does not make you a good person.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: withdrawal from Afghanistan, bad idea?
« Reply #884 on: November 05, 2021, 12:11:03 PM »
What and why were those 14,000 non-military American idiots doing in Afghanistan in the first place?

Were they taking classes to learn the language or Sharia law?  Was that the cheapest place they could afford to take a vacation or spend time at their timeshare?

 :wtf:

You have to read the article and pay particular attention to the statuses of the groups of people.

The headline ambiguously states: "Joe Biden Abandoned THOUSANDS of Americans and as many as 14,000 in Afghanistan When US Fled Country."

What it MEANS:  Thousands of Americans were left, and "as many as 14,000 U.S. legal permanent residents."  That's 14K Green Card holders -- foreign nationals who have legal resident status in the US.  They are not US citizens, therefore not Americans.

They could have been from any country, and I'd bet the majority were Afghanistan citizens.  The US routinely hires foreigners to perform all manner of jobs: interpreters, drivers (most Arab countries forbid women from driving), laborers, construction projects, etc.  They know the language and customs, and are therefore easier to put to work immediately.

In Saudi Arabia, our hotel was staffed almost completely with Filipinos.  They did all the main functions:  laundry, phone operator, housekeeping, grounds keeping, and so on.  They could move to Riyadh for a year or more and make more than they could in more than 5 years at home.  They saved and sent money back home for their families.  Most support jobs for American military missions pay way more than almost any other job in the area.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

changemyoil66

Re: withdrawal from Afghanistan, bad idea?
« Reply #885 on: November 05, 2021, 12:11:24 PM »
Well, all of those Americans should have known that the US empire was illegally occupying that nation when they decided to go to Afghanistan.  Since they had to have known the risks of being there for whatever reason, the fact they are still stuck in that failed state is their own fault and should find their own way out.

There's 1 guy with a YT channel about his life there. I can't remember the name. But he's an electrician and makes lots of $ being there. He shows where he works and lives and even the gym they have set up for the non-military. He shows what they eat and even recorded during a mortar attack.

Is it smart to be in a war zone, no. But guess the money out weights the risk for him. I dont' remember if he said he had a family or if he was single.

Then there was another YT vid about a mercenary in Iraq. Ex SAS and got out.  Basically his wife is happier because he's home way more and makes 4X the pay. Something along the lines of in Iraq for 2 weeks and gets 1 month off.  Or there for 3 days and gets 2 weeks off. Compared to when serving her Majesty, 1 week home every 8 months or so.  He also gets better equipment to use. IIRC he wasn't with Blackwater (their name at the time of the vid), but the 2nd highest contractor agency.

Kuleana

Re: withdrawal from Afghanistan, bad idea?
« Reply #886 on: November 05, 2021, 12:36:26 PM »
You have to read the article and pay particular attention to the statuses of the groups of people.

The headline ambiguously states: "Joe Biden Abandoned THOUSANDS of Americans and as many as 14,000 in Afghanistan When US Fled Country."

What it MEANS:  Thousands of Americans were left, and "as many as 14,000 U.S. legal permanent residents."  That's 14K Green Card holders -- foreign nationals who have legal resident status in the US.  They are not US citizens, therefore not Americans.

They could have been from any country, and I'd bet the majority were Afghanistan citizens.  The US routinely hires foreigners to perform all manner of jobs: interpreters, drivers (most Arab countries forbid women from driving), laborers, construction projects, etc.  They know the language and customs, and are therefore easier to put to work immediately.

In Saudi Arabia, our hotel was staffed almost completely with Filipinos.  They did all the main functions:  laundry, phone operator, housekeeping, grounds keeping, and so on.  They could move to Riyadh for a year or more and make more than they could in more than 5 years at home.  They saved and sent money back home for their families.  Most support jobs for American military missions pay way more than almost any other job in the area.
Thanks for the clarification Flapp.   :shaka:

The point I was getting at is there have been enough good American patriot lives lost in Afghanistan that were sold a pack of lies to get them to make the ultimate sacrifice.  The American servicemen had no choice when they were sent; therefore, it was paramount to get those brave men and women out of that place, ASAP.

However, those carpetbaggers and their entourage who wished to make money out of that illegal occupation had a choice of whether to be there or not.  They should have realized that place is a warzone and to think death was not a possibility is totally naïve.  Hence, those people should not expect American servicemen to risk their lives to save them, from their current situation they made by their own free will.

changemyoil66

Re: withdrawal from Afghanistan, bad idea?
« Reply #887 on: November 05, 2021, 12:42:11 PM »


However, those carpetbaggers and their entourage who wished to make money out of that illegal occupation had a choice of whether to be there or not.  They should have realized that place is a warzone and to think death was not a possibility is totally naïve.  Hence, those people should not expect American servicemen to risk their lives to save them, from their current situation they made by their own free will.

Now I understand your POV. This clarifies it.  :shaka:

Kuleana

Re: withdrawal from Afghanistan, bad idea?
« Reply #888 on: November 05, 2021, 12:43:48 PM »
And that's why there never will be another Hawaiian Kingdom. No statesmen among you. Just feelings-feelings-feelings without the slightest understanding of the political consequences of your words or actions.
Just like your own emotions that is obviously apparent in your statement above?



But oh yeah, the rest of the world is going to step in and restore you to power any day now. Just keep sitting there with your begging bowl stuck and wait for your rescuers to show up.
Don't need the rest of the World to step-in to do anything.  The US empire is ripping itself apart.  You above all else know the US empire's long-term economic and financial situation.  The eventual collapse and Balkanization is slowly arriving on schedule and barring WWIII, Hawaiian patriots need only be calm, alert, and patient.   :shaka:

drck1000

Re: withdrawal from Afghanistan, bad idea?
« Reply #889 on: November 05, 2021, 12:49:41 PM »
Thanks for the clarification Flapp.   :shaka:

The point I was getting at is there have been enough good American patriot lives lost in Afghanistan that were sold a pack of lies to get them to make the ultimate sacrifice.  The American servicemen had no choice when they were sent; therefore, it was paramount to get those brave men and women out of that place, ASAP.

However, those carpetbaggers and their entourage who wished to make money out of that illegal occupation had a choice of whether to be there or not.  They should have realized that place is a warzone and to think death was not a possibility is totally naïve.  Hence, those people should not expect American servicemen to risk their lives to save them, from their current situation they made by their own free will.
Missionaries. . . haven't you seen the movie Delta Force?  Tale as old as, well, a long time. . .

changemyoil66

Re: withdrawal from Afghanistan, bad idea?
« Reply #890 on: November 05, 2021, 01:00:44 PM »
Missionaries. . . haven't you seen the movie Delta Force?  Tale as old as, well, a long time. . .

Or Rambo 4.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: withdrawal from Afghanistan, bad idea?
« Reply #891 on: November 05, 2021, 01:27:10 PM »
Thanks for the clarification Flapp.   :shaka:

The point I was getting at is there have been enough good American patriot lives lost in Afghanistan that were sold a pack of lies to get them to make the ultimate sacrifice.  The American servicemen had no choice when they were sent; therefore, it was paramount to get those brave men and women out of that place, ASAP.

However, those carpetbaggers and their entourage who wished to make money out of that illegal occupation had a choice of whether to be there or not.  They should have realized that place is a warzone and to think death was not a possibility is totally naïve.  Hence, those people should not expect American servicemen to risk their lives to save them, from their current situation they made by their own free will.

I have a problem with that assumption.

Most of the military in Afghanistan were not members of the military when we started operations there.  Young 18-22 year olds who entered the military saw news of Afghanistan for years before VOLUNTEERING to join.  They knew full well that if they joined they had a better than even chance of being deployed there or in nearby countries.

Likewise, unless someone fell under the stop-loss rules, they could finish their service commitment and come home. 

They were there WITH FULL KNOWLEDGE of what might be asked of them.  Nobody sold anyone a "pack of lies" to get them to go there -- and possibly die there.  Everyone who raises their right hand and takes the oath knows what it means.  You will go where and when the military tells you to.  Period.  You can't believe both to be true.  Either they were sold a pack of lies and made the choice to go, or they had no choice in going. One or the other.

As for people being there to "make money," you sound as if capitalism is only a good thing if you agree with the circumstances in which the market exists.  Making money is a form of self interest.  Self interest has been proven time and again to be the best motivator when trying to reach an almost impossible objective.  When the anticipated reward is great, so is the effort to obtain it.  I see nothing wrong with "carpetbaggers" making money as long as they deliver on the promises they make.  If the locals could do what the carpetbaggers can, they'd have done it already.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Kuleana

Re: withdrawal from Afghanistan, bad idea?
« Reply #892 on: November 05, 2021, 01:45:14 PM »
I have a problem with that assumption.

Most of the military in Afghanistan were not members of the military when we started operations there.  Young 18-22 year olds who entered the military saw news of Afghanistan for years before VOLUNTEERING to join.  They knew full well that if they joined they had a better than even chance of being deployed there or in nearby countries.

Likewise, unless someone fell under the stop-loss rules, they could finish their service commitment and come home. 

They were there WITH FULL KNOWLEDGE of what might be asked of them.  Nobody sold anyone a "pack of lies" to get them to go there -- and possibly die there.  Everyone who raises their right hand and takes the oath knows what it means.  You will go where and when the military tells you to.  Period.  You can't believe both to be true.  Either they were sold a pack of lies and made the choice to go, or they had no choice in going. One or the other.
You are correct in the totality that American servicemen did not have any choice at all.

The pack of lies I was referring to was all the pro-occupation to serve your country propaganda, which was often used as marketing to get young American patriots to sign-up, with the high probability to serve in the Afghanistan occupation.



As for people being there to "make money," you sound as if capitalism is only a good thing if you agree with the circumstances in which the market exists.  Making money is a form of self interest.  Self interest has been proven time and again to be the best motivator when trying to reach an almost impossible objective.  When the anticipated reward is great, so is the effort to obtain it.  I see nothing wrong with "carpetbaggers" making money as long as they deliver on the promises they make.  If the locals could do what the carpetbaggers can, they'd have done it already.
Theoretically, I agree with your premise, but such premise can also be justification for the selling of drugs, sex trafficking of minors, and all other types of illegal activities.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: withdrawal from Afghanistan, bad idea?
« Reply #893 on: November 05, 2021, 01:55:09 PM »
You are correct in the totality that American servicemen did not have any choice at all.

The pack of lies I was referring to was all the pro-occupation to serve your country propaganda, which was often used as marketing to get young American patriots to sign-up, with the high probability to serve in the Afghanistan occupation.


Theoretically, I agree with your premise, but such premise can also be justification for the selling of drugs, sex trafficking of minors, and all other types of illegal activities.

You say that like none of those activities exist in the Middle East.  BTW, you left out slavery, which also exists there.  I guess "other types" covers it!   :geekdanc: :thumbsup:

Nothing I said was justification for any given mission/market/profession.  The US is not running drugs, trafficking minors nor engaging in other types of illegal activities (that we know of).  The capitalistic market forces are all I was referencing, not justification for any given commercial activity.   Not sure what you think "carpetbaggers" refers to.  It's my understanding they were the investors and entrepreneurs who traveled from the North to Southern states to set up businesses in an area destroyed by the Northern armies.  They had the resources to almost monopolize the economies in states trying to rebuild. 

The negative nuance of the term carpetbagger is in the perception they are exploiting the local populace for their own personal gain.  I submit that the side effect of that is economic growth and creation of opportunities for the local populace they may not have been able to achieve on their own.

Businesses need laborers.  Laborers need jobs.  Symbiotic relationships.

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

QUIETShooter

Re: withdrawal from Afghanistan, bad idea?
« Reply #894 on: November 05, 2021, 03:14:04 PM »
Possible that some Americans ignored the warnings of the eventual pull out of American forces in Afghanistan.  So you know that saying "you can lead a horse to water......"

But I'll bet there were Americans that wanted to get out and couldn't.

Is our current administration that "leads" our country doing something about it?

Let's go Brandon.  Lest your approval rating drops to 1% (your family and a couple of friends...) :rofl:
Sometimes you gotta know when to save your bullets.

Kuleana

Re: withdrawal from Afghanistan, bad idea?
« Reply #895 on: November 05, 2021, 06:57:48 PM »
Everyone needs to hear what Libertarian Ron Paul has to say about the illegal occupation of Afghanistan, starting at the 4:00 minute mark.



Flapp_Jackson

Re: withdrawal from Afghanistan, bad idea?
« Reply #896 on: November 05, 2021, 07:12:08 PM »
Possible that some Americans ignored the warnings of the eventual pull out of American forces in Afghanistan.  So you know that saying "you can lead a horse to water......"

But I'll bet there were Americans that wanted to get out and couldn't.

Is our current administration that "leads" our country doing something about it?

Let's go Brandon.  Lest your approval rating drops to 1% (your family and a couple of friends...) :rofl:

Are you saying THOUSANDS of Americans and over 14,000 Green Card holders ignored the orders to evacuate?

I don't see that happening in such large numbers.  They all knew the terrorists were on their way.

I think it's more of a lack of planning to move that many people in a short time -- a situation created by an arbitrary, yet globally advertised, deadline set by Biden.

This is exactly why you don't advertise operational schedules.  You start extracting civilians and non-essential military very early before starting the full drawdown.  By then, you should only have a fraction of the people left to evac.

We've got 2 massive hospital ships that could transport and care for a good number of people.  They could have easily shuttled people to those ports and gotten them aboard in a safe and orderly fashion without having to provide air transport the whole way.  Same is true of many other support ships in the Navy.

This was a cluster f--- from the start.  Can't blame the people for being left behind when the planners did such a horrible job.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2021, 07:20:23 PM by Flapp_Jackson »
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

eyeeatingfish

Re: withdrawal from Afghanistan, bad idea?
« Reply #897 on: November 06, 2021, 07:18:54 PM »
I'm no expert, but could be contractors. Truckers, translators, eletricians, plumbers, construction workers, etc... Then of course CIA and other mercenaries.

Sounds like there were a fair number of people doing charity work as well. Including missionaries

Inspector

Re: withdrawal from Afghanistan, bad idea?
« Reply #898 on: November 08, 2021, 09:19:32 AM »
Flashback-Biden: If ‘You Leave Those Billions of Dollars of Weapons Behind’ in Iraq, They’ll ‘Be Used Against Your Grandchild’

https://www.cnsnews.com/blog/craig-bannister/flashback-biden-if-you-leave-those-billions-dollars-weapons-behind-iraq-theyll
SCIENCE THAT CAN’T BE QUESTIONED IS PROPAGANDA!!!