Former President Trump, shot on stage at a rally (Read 35310 times)

Heavies

Re: Former President Trump, shot on stage at a rally
« Reply #140 on: July 20, 2024, 02:41:44 PM »
I have a very difficult time with any theory that involves more than one shooter.

You assign more than one so you have twice the probability that at least one round finds its target.  One shooter (the patsy) is visible while the other is secluded. 

If there was another shooter, Trump would be attending his funeral instead of a convention.

This is just my opinion, but I truly, truly believe it.

There was one shooter. In the open window of the building.  The guy on the roof was just the decoy.    Check those two videos I linked. 
Not saying this is what happened, but is more logical than one nut case getting EXTREMELY lucky.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Former President Trump, shot on stage at a rally
« Reply #141 on: July 20, 2024, 03:23:18 PM »
There was one shooter. In the open window of the building.  The guy on the roof was just the decoy.    Check those two videos I linked. 
Not saying this is what happened, but is more logical than one nut case getting EXTREMELY lucky.

The results don't match your scenario.

Just saying.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

ren

Re: Former President Trump, shot on stage at a rally
« Reply #142 on: July 20, 2024, 03:33:48 PM »
Trump was used as the target for the DARPA prototype

Deeds Not Words

Heavies

Re: Former President Trump, shot on stage at a rally
« Reply #143 on: July 20, 2024, 03:59:18 PM »
The results don't match your scenario.

Just saying.

How so?  The shot that hit Trump’s ear was the first shot. A very well placed aimed shot.  Only thing that saved him was a very lucky last minute move.  That is the very reason people are not trained, generally, to shoot at the head.  The head moves around too much for a reliable hit.  I’m sure the shooter probably knows he might’ve been wearing body armor, therefore a head shot would be needed. 

You telling me a 20yo dorky gamer, that failed the high school rifle team, got that well of a shot off after being startled by the police?

Heavies

Re: Former President Trump, shot on stage at a rally
« Reply #144 on: July 20, 2024, 04:03:50 PM »
Also if you look at the angles. The window/roof edge is where the shots originated.  His body was way over to the right. 

I want to see the ballistics, shell casings collected matching the number of shots fired, recovered bullets, etc. the more you look at it the less it adds up. 

Same MO as LV

Sadly, with the alphabet agencies looking into it, I highly doubt there will be an accurate investigation.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Former President Trump, shot on stage at a rally
« Reply #145 on: July 20, 2024, 04:18:40 PM »
How so?  The shot that hit Trump’s ear was the first shot. A very well placed aimed shot.  Only thing that saved him was a very lucky last minute move.  That is the very reason people are not trained, generally, to shoot at the head.  The head moves around too much for a reliable hit.  I’m sure the shooter probably knows he might’ve been wearing body armor, therefore a head shot would be needed. 

You telling me a 20yo dorky gamer, that failed the high school rifle team, got that well of a shot off after being startled by the police?

But, "the first shot" means there was not a volley of simultaneous shots.

is it common for two shooters about to assassinate someone to hold their fire until he knows whether other one missed?  Seems strange they weren't synchronized close enough to at least make the lone gunman theory plausible.

The LONE shooter might have not been able to compete with other classmates who were better marksmen in order to win a place on a competition school rifle team, but he WAS STILL a member of a shooting club at the range and spent a good amount of time at the range practicing, according to the reports that are not trying to spin the narrative that he didn't act alone.

"A very well placed aimed shot. "

What?

If you look at the trajectory from the rooftop to where Trump was, it doesn't matter how many times or how sharply or quickly Trump's head was swiveling.  If the shooter had the center of Trump's head in his sights, it's doubtful Trump would have dodged it.  Trump's head turned INTO the path of the bullet, making his head parallel with the plane of the bullet's path. 

Trump only had to move his head a couple of millimeters for the kid to miss.  That doesn't sound like a well placed shot.  Sounds like he would have to have been very lucky himself to have been at all effective.

Seems more like someone's first time shooting at a live target, and his 'nerves' took over.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Former President Trump, shot on stage at a rally
« Reply #146 on: July 20, 2024, 04:31:18 PM »
Also if you look at the angles. The window/roof edge is where the shots originated.  His body was way over to the right. 

....

i don't know what source you got that from.  Looks like the gunman was on the building facing Trump and left of the center of the roof.

BTW, this article contains a video with a lot of good, overlapping footage and images.  Worth taking a look.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/trump-assassination-attempt-investigation-continues-new-details/story?id=112020474

« Last Edit: July 20, 2024, 04:39:59 PM by Flapp_Jackson »
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Former President Trump, shot on stage at a rally
« Reply #147 on: July 20, 2024, 08:17:21 PM »
Blow-by-blow account of the events, plus analysis of where several of the shots landed in which order, and which sniper team more likely took out the LONE shooter.   :geekdanc:

One question I had was whether the sniper team on Trump's right had a clear line of sight the the shooter's position, based on the Google Earth map i brought up as well as their behavior when attempting to acquire their target.  Seemed like they couldn't see him clearly. 

If the video is correct (as well as my general impression), the position chosen on the roof basically divided in half number of the snipers capable of immediately neutralizing him.

The answer also supports reports that the shooter was closer to the edge of the roof on his left than he was to the edge on his right -- shown in the diagrams used in this video.

Good info.

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Heavies

Re: Former President Trump, shot on stage at a rally
« Reply #148 on: July 21, 2024, 04:19:56 AM »
If there was a police counter sniper team in that window, why didn’t they look over to see the shooter right there to the left?

ren

Re: Former President Trump, shot on stage at a rally
« Reply #149 on: July 21, 2024, 06:33:35 AM »
simple explanation to all of this.
Biden get the valedictorian Secret Service agents while Trump got the cosplay ones.
Deeds Not Words

QUIETShooter

Re: Former President Trump, shot on stage at a rally
« Reply #150 on: July 21, 2024, 07:17:17 AM »
simple explanation to all of this.
Biden get the valedictorian Secret Service agents while Trump got the cosplay ones.

I agree.

One thing that keeps playing in my head, though.  When the bullet missed and Trump ducked down behind the podium, the cosplay secret service did their usual "human shield" maneuver.

But one of the cute, soft, and chubby lady agents voice was caught on audio saying:

"What are we doing?"  "Where are we going?"

Strange to me.  These things are part of the "what if's" safety protocol actions that are taken on every event that secret service is on.  They should all know what to do.  And where to go.

It's almost as if they were caught off guard.  Caught off guard?  Nonsense.  Not Secret Service.

Right?........Right? :shake:
Sometimes you gotta know when to save your bullets.

Rocky

Re: Former President Trump, shot on stage at a rally
« Reply #151 on: July 21, 2024, 07:25:00 AM »
1)   Crooks scenario
20 yr old with failure to get on rifle team attempts assassination head shot.
Who's to say he wasn't going for center mass and missed ?    :crazy:

2)   Window / Other shooter scenario
Deep state assassin would be an exceptional marksman and would not have missed a head shot.   >:D

3)   Staged scenario
Future President plans for staged assassination for sniper to shoot at his head but only clip his ear ?
20 yr old with failure to get on rifle team makes a precision shot to the ear ?
Other shooter makes a precision shot to the ear ?
   For one, I don't think Trump would condone anyone shooting at his head.
Secondly, a precision shot to a moving target that is a 6cm tall and 1cm wide?  :wacko:

Seriously folks, I'll go with scenario #1 and a SS failure on all 3.

“I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made.”
                                                           Franklin D. Roosevelt

Heavies

Re: Former President Trump, shot on stage at a rally
« Reply #152 on: July 21, 2024, 08:57:56 AM »
1)   Crooks scenario
20 yr old with failure to get on rifle team attempts assassination head shot.
Who's to say he wasn't going for center mass and missed ?    :crazy:

2)   Window / Other shooter scenario
Deep state assassin would be an exceptional marksman and would not have missed a head shot.   >:D

3)   Staged scenario
Future President plans for staged assassination for sniper to shoot at his head but only clip his ear ?
20 yr old with failure to get on rifle team makes a precision shot to the ear ?
Other shooter makes a precision shot to the ear ?
   For one, I don't think Trump would condone anyone shooting at his head.
Secondly, a precision shot to a moving target that is a 6cm tall and 1cm wide?  :wacko:

Seriously folks, I'll go with scenario #1 and a SS failure on all 3.



I could go with 1 or 2.  However, with either, there is deep state involvement.  Too many coincidences and lapses of security.  Even at its worst, they couldn’t be this incompetent. 

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Former President Trump, shot on stage at a rally
« Reply #153 on: July 21, 2024, 09:02:29 AM »
If there was a police counter sniper team in that window, why didn’t they look over to see the shooter right there to the left?

What window?

Picture's worth a thousand words.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Heavies

Re: Former President Trump, shot on stage at a rally
« Reply #154 on: July 21, 2024, 09:09:20 AM »
What window?

Picture's worth a thousand words.

It’s right in the video that you posted.  Looking toward the building complex, to the left of crook’s position.   

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Former President Trump, shot on stage at a rally
« Reply #155 on: July 21, 2024, 09:22:21 AM »
It’s right in the video that you posted.  Looking toward the building complex, to the left of crook’s position.

Ground level?

If so, how do you see on top of a roof that you're directly adjacent to?

If there was a police counter sniper team in that window, why didn’t they look over to see the shooter right there to the left?
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Kuleana

Re: Former President Trump, shot on stage at a rally
« Reply #156 on: July 21, 2024, 10:01:29 AM »
The different scenarios offered in this thread essentially comes down to the main question of whether the identified shooter was acting on his own or was a part of a larger conspiracy.

Premise #1 (Crooks acting on his own)
In order for this scenario to be true, the following has to be assumed:
1. Crooks had the motive, means, and opportunity.
2. Crooks had adequate marksmanship training and skills to hit targets beyond at least 100ft.
3. Unless it was a suicide-assassination attempt, Crooks had a plan to arrive, position himself, and escape undetected.

From the latest information about Crooks, there is evidence that he had some motive; had the rudimentary means to undertake an assassination; and definitely an opportunity to shoot Trump.  Regarding Crooks skills to accurately hit targets beyond 100ft, he was at some point a member of a shooting club, but definitely not someone that could be counted on to get a headshot way past beyond 100ft consistently and reliably.  Finally, without a doubt, it was clear that Crooks did not have a plan to arrive, position himself, and escape undetected since there is ample photo and video evidence of Crooks being seen out in the open many times by many people prior to the shots fired at Trump.  At the time of this writing, there is no evidence that Crooks planned to commit suicide after shooting Trump.


Premise #2 (Power Okole / Deep State Involvement)
In order for this scenario to be true, the following has to be assumed:
1. The Power Okole / Deep State had the motive, means, and opportunity.
2. The Power Okole / Deep State have access to trained assassins.
3. Unless the Power Okole / Deep State wanted to get caught, they had plans for deniable culpability.

Assuming the existence of the Power Okole / Deep State, it is very clear from both a domestic and geopolitical perspective that they had motive, endless means, and opportunity to carry out an assassination attempt against Trump.  Likewise, given the resources of the Power Okole / Deep State, it is almost certain that they had access to trained assassins.  Finally, assuming the Power Okole / Deep State did not want their contracted assassin to get caught, having someone like Crooks who somehow miraculously was able to get into shooting position and fire shots all the while being observed by numerous people along with the subpar performance of all personnel that were tasked in protecting Trump and securing the venue's perimeter does provide evidence of deniable culpability.


Current Assessment Pending Further Information
In essence, to accept Crooks acting on his own requires everyone to believe he wanted to walk around the venue's perimeter risking getting apprehended as well as Trump's entire security apparatus ignoring the reports and sighting of Crooks up until Trump's shooting.  In contrast, to accept involvement of the Power Okole / Deep State requires everyone to believe that powerful outside forces do not want Trump to become President and that they are willing to resort to any means since they are capable to assassinate anyone given their money. power, and influence.

In the end, anything is possible pending more information; however, given the failure of the Trump shooting and Biden abruptly withdrawing from the Presidential election suggests to me involvement of the Power Okole / Deep State and them implementing their Plan B that is only now taking shape.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Former President Trump, shot on stage at a rally
« Reply #157 on: July 21, 2024, 10:53:51 AM »
Excellent 3D model showing the shooter's position, the paths of the bullets, etc.

Very thorough.

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

macsak

Re: Former President Trump, shot on stage at a rally
« Reply #158 on: July 21, 2024, 10:59:49 AM »
4 shot locations?
this video shows the open window...

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Former President Trump, shot on stage at a rally
« Reply #159 on: July 21, 2024, 01:28:15 PM »
Why wasn't there a sniper posted on top of the "sloped" roof where Crooks fired from?

Local LEOs asked about that, but the feds told them, "We already have a sniper there."


Doh!!
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw