I'm 1/4 Hawaiian my great grand father, a Nihipali from Haula served in the army infantry WWI, worked for the government at K-bay till the day he died, never bitched and moaned about how the white man stole his island. He served proudly. My grandmother 1/2 Hawaiian, I've never ever heard her bitch and moan about that shit ether. It shity how theirs only a minority of people who bitch and moan that are bitching. And they think they speak for "all us Hawaiians" ignorance is bliss.

My whole family came from Europe. Some came before the revolution, some during the potato famine, and some during WW2 to escape Mussolini. All my life I've grown up hearing people say all kinds of racist stuff around me just because they thought that I would be sympathetic. Good for your grandparents. It proves they were able to adapt to the circumstances.

You could be speaking Japanese all the time; sure wouldn't have had the same belief system then!  One way or another, someone was going to take Hawaii - that is just the truth of the situation.  The island is too strategic.

You are arguing Might Makes Right. It's the same kind of logic some redneck would use  to say they can go wherever they want and act be obnoxious because they have a ccw and if someone calls them out they are within their rights to respond with lethal force. I'm pretty sure that's what will happen.

Also are you comparing the Secret Service escorting the president in a foreign country to sailors on shore leave?

Almost every major colonizations of the past is based off of religion.  Savages, heathens, etc.....you name it the indigenous people were called it.  I get what you're saying about the people of the past looking down upon the locals.  It happened everywhere, it happened to the Native Americans and it also happened to my home island (Guam).  However in my posts and stance on any debate do I ever hold it (the injustice done to my people in the past) over anyone's head when trying to make a point.  Especially when time has elapsed (as we moved forward to this day and age) it's pretty much illegal for any establishment to deny anyone of their rights as American Citizens based on race. 

Your post made me question in what regards is this topic of CCW  based on race?   

 

Thanks for your thoughtful response. I'm not saying things are 'right' or 'wrong', but pointing out the narrative behind some of the hostility visitors might feel here. The visitors also bring their own narrative, which some of the time brings it's own brand of victimization- illegals taking over the country, jews taking over the earth, gays ruining marriage etc. I'm saying people bring their fears and prejudices with them, and if they don't understand that if you smile and treat people with respect here generally they are very cool, or not understanding why it's a bad idea to go hang out at Makaha beach at 2am, or take pictures of homeless camps without their permission, then bad things can happen. If you have a bunch of haoles running around guns thinking they can do whatever they want and going places they probably shouldn't be then it gets even worse.

If you want a metaphor I'd compare it to Pipeline. You don't just get off a plane and paddle out there on a 6-8 foot day not just because you could get hurt or die, but because you could unwittingly kill someone else. The lifeguards there do a great job of spotting visitors who come and don't look like they know what's going on. I'm saying it's a good idea to have anyone who wants to carry a gun in Hawaii should take a safety course in Hawaii for the same reason.

Thanks for your thoughtful response. I'm not saying things are 'right' or 'wrong', but pointing out the narrative behind some of the hostility visitors might feel here. The visitors also bring their own narrative, which some of the time brings it's own brand of victimization- illegals taking over the country, jews taking over the earth, gays ruining marriage etc. I'm saying people bring their fears and prejudices with them, and if they don't understand that if you smile and treat people with respect here generally they are very cool, or not understanding why it's a bad idea to go hang out at Makaha beach at 2am, or take pictures of homeless camps without their permission, then bad things can happen. If you have a bunch of haoles running around guns thinking they can do whatever they want and going places they probably shouldn't be then it gets even worse.

If you want a metaphor I'd compare it to Pipeline. You don't just get off a plane and paddle out there on a 6-8 foot day not just because you could get hurt or die, but because you could unwittingly kill someone else. The lifeguards there do a great job of spotting visitors who come and don't look like they know what's going on. I'm saying it's a good idea to have anyone who wants to carry a gun in Hawaii should take a safety course in Hawaii for the same reason.

?

So to carry a firearm safely in Hawaii, you have to take a course in Hawaii?  Have you EVER carried a firearm anywhere (to HPD or the gun range doesn't count)?
You should hang yourself with a necktie in your closet for posting such a retarded idea. Put an extra knot in it for me to insure success.

Give yourself a High Five in the mirror, because that is the only retard that is going to agree with you.

By the way, I got off the plane from Texas and surfed pipe, on a 6-8+ foot day and didn't die, didn't hurt anyone, and the lifeguards where too busy sleeping to notice the REALLY WHITE, white boy on the surfboard. 


Your analogy sucks.

In a few years this may be the appropriate action, but right now while civilization is relatively stable this will get you locked up. For good reason.

except you're wrong because right now i can shoot people trying to steal my truck in NC and won't have to worry about being arrested. It's a shame Hawaii has yet to adopt this policy and i'll have to give up this ability when i come home.

?

So to carry a firearm safely in Hawaii, you have to take a course in Hawaii?  Have you EVER carried a firearm anywhere (to HPD or the gun range doesn't count)?
You should hang yourself with a necktie in your closet for posting such a retarded idea. Put an extra knot in it for me to insure success.

Give yourself a High Five in the mirror, because that is the only retard that is going to agree with you.

By the way, I got off the plane from Texas and surfed pipe, on a 6-8+ foot day and didn't die, didn't hurt anyone, and the lifeguards where too busy sleeping to notice the REALLY WHITE, white boy on the surfboard. 


Your analogy sucks.

Well look who's trolling now. Aren't you supposed to be moving away soon?

except you're wrong because right now i can shoot people trying to steal my truck in NC and won't have to worry about being arrested. It's a shame Hawaii has yet to adopt this policy and i'll have to give up this ability when i come home.

you are mistaken

http://www.wsoctv.com/news/news/north-carolina-gun-law-use-of-deadly-physical-forc/nGwj9/

From the link above:


Deadly Force MAY NOT Be Used: (a) To Stop a Simple Assault.The exact point in time a simple assault becomes deadly is often unclear. Repeated blows to vital body areas, choking, continued beating on a helpless or weakened victim, are some indicators. (b) Because of the Use of Violent Language § 14-277.1. Communicating threats. (c) Because You Are a Victim of Past Violence and Fear Future Violence (d) Because a Trespasser Refuses to Leave (e) To Arrest a Criminal or to Prevent a Criminal's Escape b. Use of force to protect property The law does not permit the use of deadly force solely to protect property, or to prevent theft, or to regain stolen property. An owner CANNOT shoot at a thief - before, during, or after a theft. The same rule prohibits deadly force to prevent injury or vandalism to property. A different rule applies if life is imminently threatened at the same time property is taken. Deadly force used to prevent an armed robbery is force used to protect life, not to protect property.

From the link above:


Deadly Force MAY NOT Be Used: (a) To Stop a Simple Assault.The exact point in time a simple assault becomes deadly is often unclear. Repeated blows to vital body areas, choking, continued beating on a helpless or weakened victim, are some indicators. (b) Because of the Use of Violent Language § 14-277.1. Communicating threats. (c) Because You Are a Victim of Past Violence and Fear Future Violence (d) Because a Trespasser Refuses to Leave (e) To Arrest a Criminal or to Prevent a Criminal's Escape b. Use of force to protect property The law does not permit the use of deadly force solely to protect property, or to prevent theft, or to regain stolen property. An owner CANNOT shoot at a thief - before, during, or after a theft. The same rule prohibits deadly force to prevent injury or vandalism to property. A different rule applies if life is imminently threatened at the same time property is taken. Deadly force used to prevent an armed robbery is force used to protect life, not to protect property.

that was back in 2007 they've amended it since last year and it has been extended to include when inside your vehicle.

http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/enactedlegislation/sessionlaws/pdf/2011-2012/sl2011-268.pdf

Well look who's trolling now. Aren't you supposed to be moving away soon?

you'd hope id be moving on so there wont be anyone to call you on the bullshit you post here. 

Answer the question.

you'd hope id be moving on so there wont be anyone to call you on the bullshit you post here. 

Answer the question.

There was a question in there? I thought you were just calling me names and telling me to kill myself.

that was back in 2007 they've amended it since last year and it has been extended to include when inside your vehicle.

http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/enactedlegislation/sessionlaws/pdf/2011-2012/sl2011-268.pdf

Ok that looks like a good law to me. I think we are on the same page. I thought you meant that if you wake up in the middle of the night and someone is stealing your ride it's okay to sneak up and shoot them. The law says have to present some kind of threat of physical harm, like trying to run you over when they are getting away.

There was a question in there? I thought you were just calling me names and telling me to kill myself.

reading comprehension fail.. Try again.

If your world view is so fragile that bringing up subjects that you are uncomfortable with causes you to be insulting and wish me harm, then I'm happy to finally bring it to your attention. You are welcome. Now if you want me to respond then please ask your question like an adult, not a spoiled child throwing a temper tantrum.

It's important to have a 2a discussion site to pool resources and change the status quo in Hawaii.
Hvybarrels represents a threat to the status quo and must be shouted down.

George Zimmerman and Chris Deedy had a right to stand their ground because they were protecting themselves.
Trayvon Martin and Kollin Elderts had no right to stand their ground because their actions invited suspicion.

If George Zimmerman and Chris Deedy go to prison it will be another miscarriage of justice against gun rights.
Marissa Alexander and John McNeil are facing decades in prison because the courts must have had good reason to convict them.

Black Americans have no standing to demand equal rights because slavery was abolished a long time ago and institutional racism ended in the 70's. 
Black Americans represent a grossly disproportionate percentage of the prison population because they don't take responsibility for their own lives.

It's okay for the US to illegally overthrow the Kingdom of Hawaii because someone else would have eventually taken it anyway.
Iraq's invasion of Kuwait was a crime against international law and required a swift and devastating military response.

Our constitutional rights are essential to keeping the republic, and without a second amendment we would fall into tyranny.
It's okay to use violence against Occupy and anti-war protestors (including veterans) and violate their first amendment rights because they are socialists/wish to weaken US hegemony.

Obama must be impeached because his birth certificate and socialist agenda, he's weak on terror, and eventually he's going to take away our guns.
Associating Obama's already-existing record of assault on our constitution and aggressive war agenda as a continuation of Bush administration policies makes you a conspiracy theorist.

Hitler was bad because he killed 6 million Jews and took over other countries.
We must prosecute a never-ending war on Islamic fascism, even if it means killing millions of innocent civilians and invading Iran, and giving up some of our rights in the process in order to protect the homeland.

Might Makes Right, aka History is Written By the Victors, aka He Who Has the Guns Makes the Rules. It doesn't make that much of a difference to those who still have the luxury of believing they are on the side of the Law, but as Germans found out in the 1930's those who go quietly down this road one day wake up and find themselves to be judged by the same standards that they judged others. No discussion, no dissent, no justice, and certainly no peace. Have a problem with being removed from your home because of a non-specific national security threat? Take it up with Officer Friendly like they did during Katrina. Have a problem of handing in your guns when they decide it's for your own safety? The predator drone will watch you with the IR camera until you are making love to your wife, and then GI JustDoingHisJob will be coming to the door. Or through the roof. Or through the window. Have a nice stay at the no-lawyer wing of Undisclosed Military Detention Facility as an enemy combatant.

No justice for some of us means no justice for any of us.

 

It's important to have a 2a discussion site to pool resources and change the status quo in Hawaii.
Hvybarrels represents a threat to the status quo and must be shouted down.

George Zimmerman and Chris Deedy had a right to stand their ground because they were protecting themselves.
Trayvon Martin and Kollin Elderts had no right to stand their ground because their actions invited suspicion.

If George Zimmerman and Chris Deedy go to prison it will be another miscarriage of justice against gun rights.
Marissa Alexander and John McNeil are facing decades in prison because the courts must have had good reason to convict them.

Black Americans have no standing to demand equal rights because slavery was abolished a long time ago and institutional racism ended in the 70's. 
Black Americans represent a grossly disproportionate percentage of the prison population because they don't take responsibility for their own lives.

It's okay for the US to illegally overthrow the Kingdom of Hawaii because someone else would have eventually taken it anyway.
Iraq's invasion of Kuwait was a crime against international law and required a swift and devastating military response.

Our constitutional rights are essential to keeping the republic, and without a second amendment we would fall into tyranny.
It's okay to use violence against Occupy and anti-war protestors (including veterans) and violate their first amendment rights because they are socialists/wish to weaken US hegemony.

Obama must be impeached because his birth certificate and socialist agenda, he's weak on terror, and eventually he's going to take away our guns.
Associating Obama's already-existing record of assault on our constitution and aggressive war agenda as a continuation of Bush administration policies makes you a conspiracy theorist.

Hitler was bad because he killed 6 million Jews and took over other countries.
We must prosecute a never-ending war on Islamic fascism, even if it means killing millions of innocent civilians and invading Iran, and giving up some of our rights in the process in order to protect the homeland.

Might Makes Right, aka History is Written By the Victors, aka He Who Has the Guns Makes the Rules. It doesn't make that much of a difference to those who still have the luxury of believing they are on the side of the Law, but as Germans found out in the 1930's those who go quietly down this road one day wake up and find themselves to be judged by the same standards that they judged others. No discussion, no dissent, no justice, and certainly no peace. Have a problem with being removed from your home because of a non-specific national security threat? Take it up with Officer Friendly like they did during Katrina. Have a problem of handing in your guns when they decide it's for your own safety? The predator drone will watch you with the IR camera until you are making love to your wife, and then GI JustDoingHisJob will be coming to the door. Or through the roof. Or through the window. Have a nice stay at the no-lawyer wing of Undisclosed Military Detention Facility as an enemy combatant.

No justice for some of us means no justice for any of us.

 

Well for one thing YOUR arguments represent the status quo in Hawaii today, in that one who protects themself will be procecuted for a crime while the criminal will be coddled and provided extensive protection from the law.

Interesting that you mention all that history.  Do you suggest that we all hold all these injustices close to our chest, and continue to punish the sin of our forefathers?  Thereby committing new sins which will be held against us in future generations.

No doubt history is important!  But, not in the way you portray.  History should be a lesson, a lesson that we all need to know, and LEARN FROM.  Not to be used as a tool of oppression and hate on those who probably never commited an injustice because of race, religion, or whatever bias.

Media potrays spin for ratings, hategroups portray spin for power.  Hate is power, Let go of the Hate and you are free to progress.  Hold on to the hate, as the current system is trying to do to us now, and they hold on to power.

Was this a attack motivated by hate, who knows, a court of law will hold no sway over my opinion on this matter anymore, because of all the BS and spin by both sides. But in my opinion, and probably 90% of those on this sight is that it was not.  But now we will never know the truth, even after this mock trail, that the modernday lynch mob has demanded, because of the presumtions of hate clouding any unbiased evedence that may be available.

I'm not going to post in this thread any more, and I am not going to post in the other one either.  Because in essence the point is moot, because peoples assumtions and bias has made it so.

History is important,  Learn From IT,  But the past is past, and should remain there.  Move on!
 

Well for one thing YOUR arguments represent the status quo in Hawaii today, in that one who protects themself will be procecuted for a crime while the criminal will be coddled and provided extensive protection from the law.

Interesting that you mention all that history.  Do you suggest that we all hold all these injustices close to our chest, and continue to punish the sin of our forefathers?  Thereby committing new sins which will be held against us in future generations.

No doubt history is important!  But, not in the way you portray.  History should be a lesson, a lesson that we all need to know, and LEARN FROM.  Not to be used as a tool of oppression and hate on those who probably never commited an injustice because of race, religion, or whatever bias.

Media potrays spin for ratings, hategroups portray spin for power.  Hate is power, Let go of the Hate and you are free to progress.  Hold on to the hate, as the current system is trying to do to us now, and they hold on to power.

Was this a attack motivated by hate, who knows, a court of law will hold no sway over my opinion on this matter anymore, because of all the BS and spin by both sides. But in my opinion, and probably 90% of those on this sight is that it was not.  But now we will never know the truth, even after this mock trail, that the modernday lynch mob has demanded, because of the presumtions of hate clouding any unbiased evedence that may be available.

I'm not going to post in this thread any more, and I am not going to post in the other one either.  Because in essence the point is moot, because peoples assumtions and bias has made it so.

History is important,  Learn From IT,  But the past is past, and should remain there.  Move on!
 

Aman brahdah!!

Just to weigh in on the training requirements, for either obtaining a gun or for a concealed carry permit. The problem is that generally you have government officials completely unfamilar with firearms trying to devise and codify a training requirement. Or, you have individuals in positions of power who philosophically disagree with either and therefore try and create training requirements that are so burdensome that they effectively become restrictions.

Hawaii's training requirement for obrtaining a handgun could have had this effect. Initially the only proposed training that would have been effective would have been that offered by the State. And, since the State did not have, and most likely knew it never would offer, that level of training, it was for all intents and purposes a ban. Even when modified to allow NRA instructors to teach this course, it still presented problems. Such as the fact that initially the training was 3 hours of classroom and 3 hours of range time. When it was changed to the current 4 and 2 scheme, several individuals that had gone thru the prior training were now not eligible to purchase a new gun because their training did not meet the current requirements.

Another example is the LEOSA act. Initially the AG in Hawaii would not create a procedure so our retired LEOs could not continue carrying in Hawaii or in other states. When procedures were set, the training requirements were more than those for active LEOs and the only range to qualify at was on the Big Island and cost $500.00. And, you had to requalify yearly.

I kinda thought it was "bachi" for the LEO community because they enlisted the help of us law abiding citizens to help push the LEOSA act thru Congress, with the agreement that they would then help "us" with getting more concealed carry, but of course they haven't done that, have they? But, it does clearly demonstrate what allowing a generally gun-unfriendly government official/agency to promulgate rules about firearms, will likely do. It is the proverbial slipperly slope. And, that doesn't even begin to argue the case for trying to create training for Constitutionally protected rights. I mean really....you don't have to show an ID to vote but you gotta get training to own/carry a gun? Where is the consistency in the application of the exercise of Constitutional rights?

..................Black Americans have no standing to demand equal rights because slavery was abolished a long time ago and institutional racism ended in the 70's. 
Black Americans represent a grossly disproportionate percentage of the prison population because they don't take responsibility for their own lives..................

A bit off topic, but I'll weigh in.

There is too much the victim mentality in the US now.  Last I checked the people now have not been slaves, nor their fathers, nor their grandfathers...........it goes way back.  Yes it was a horrible time in our history, however it's over yet we keep hearing about it today.

The last time an ethnic people was systematically enslaved in the US it was the Japanese during WWII.  No Italians were enslaved, nor any Germans. 

I think we've all heard about internment camps in California, but ever hear of any in Hawaii?  I didn't until my dad got a check from the US government maybe 10 years back.  Never in his life did I hear him mention or complain or harbor ill will against the current government about him being in a camp during WWII.  I never heard it from my grandpa or my uncle, or my aunts. 

Now how does this relate to us now?  It's over, get over it, and get on with your life.  Your life is what you make of it and yes you have a hard upbringing, but go to friggen school and get a job and get the hell out if you want a better life for yourself.  Stop telling us you are a victim and the government is the reason why you (not you Heavy) are in prison. You are in prison (well 99.whatever%) because you made bad choices.

^^^Side note, never heard my dad complain about the government ever, not the old one, nor the current one.