2aHawaii
General Topics => Political Discussion => Topic started by: RSN172 on July 15, 2019, 08:57:20 PM
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I have been watching the news about all these Hawaiian activists who are protesting the building of the TMT. They say Mauna Kea is sacred to their culture and they cannot allow the mountain to be further desecrated. Once the TMT is completed, five of the other telescopes will be taken out. To me, that would make the mountain better. There are also a lot of people who want it built because it means jobs. These protesters say they will be up there everyday no matter how long it takes. A lot of them look like they are too young to be retired and I don't think they are independently wealthy. So do they have jobs? Or are they all like one “prominent “Hawaiian activist who chained himself to the cattle guard and has spend most of his life living off the state and welfare?
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Remember the Occupy Wall Street protestors at Thomas Square? Toward the end there were only 4 or so.
I'm not Hawaiian, but to me this is a big waste of resources. If the telescope will help us see further or clearer, then why not? Already get stuff up there. It's not like a condo or shopping center is being built. It's an upgrade to an older system. And like you mentioned 1 for 5 seems like a good deal to me. Unless also more buildings will replace those other 5 scopes.
The best part is HPD being sent to help. Now more resources that could be used here are being diverted.
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Surprising that a state with few large economic opportunities, namely tourism and related industries, would be so fearful of protestors trying to stop a multi-billion-dollar project on an outer island.
The mountain is unique, making it the best location for a telescope. Many other scopes have been built without major problems.
I wonder ... if the TMT were billed as the best chance for solving climate change, would our Democrat-populated state (& protestors) have a different opinion on the project?
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So if the state wanted to confiscate guns and 500 gun owners took a stand at KHSC because it was a sacred place to us, what would happen? Would they be like at Mauna Kea, no one will be arrested, you are free to go.
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I'd think protesting giant corporate resorts who scoop up the best property and treat local employees like dirt would be a better use of a protest. ???
If someone wants to build something that purely advances the world's scientific knowledge on my grave someday be my guest. Even if it involves digging me up and throwing my bones out with the trash.
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I don't have any recollection of Hawaiians going up Mauna Kea to worship in groups in the past few decades. Seems like these Hawaiian activists are agai st anything that will benefit people and create jobs. Like they protested the H3 and now many of them are using and are happy the highway is there. There are many Hawaiians who are pro TMT.
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They blocking the road, and it's not feasible, but I'd love to see the building material be flown in by helicopter over everyone.
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I worked nearly 10 years on the summit.
I note that "Hawaiians" only showed up here about
800 years ago.
That volcano is around a million years old.
I don't have any respect for Democrats
trying to pinch Haloes for money in the name
of some cultural practices.
I through, the local paper suggested alternate routes to the
summit around the state road blocks for the protestors.
I've hunted on Mauna Kea. I can get around there and Mauna
Loa.
I know many good Hawaiians. These guys in the news aren't
worth urinating on after they are deceased.
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I don't have any recollection of Hawaiians going up Mauna Kea to worship in groups in the past few decades. Seems like these Hawaiian activists are agai st anything that will benefit people and create jobs. Like they protested the H3 and now many of them are using and are happy the highway is there. There are many Hawaiians who are pro TMT.
Ige just vetoed changes to asset forfeiture laws that would have required a conviction (due process) BEFORE seizing assets believed to be linked to criminal activities.
If I say my property is sacred, would that prevent seizure by Big Brother?
People can lose their homes and businesses under eminent domain confiscation if the government believes the needs of the public outweigh the needs of the owners.
Yet, here we are, watching as once again the state demonstrates how they care more for feelings and beliefs than allowing lawful commerce and scientific advancement to be protected.
Protesting is one thing. Disruption of public roadways to stop the flow of workers and materials is no better than BLM idiots blocking interstate highways.
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what would King Kamehameha do?
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what would King Kamehameha do?
I, II, or III?
And what about I's 28 other children?
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what would King Kamehameha do?
May be a better question is what would Kim Jung Un do.
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I have a hard time believing my ancestors would leave the lush, comfortable lowlands to walk up a barren, frigid mountain to pray.
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I have a hard time believing my ancestors would leave the lush, comfortable lowlands to walk up a barren, frigid mountain to pray.
great point :shaka:
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are they negotiating bc the protesters are holding Mauna Kea hostage?
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Why aren't they in the lava fields protesting the bulldozing of Pele?
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are they negotiating bc the protesters are holding Mauna Kea hostage?
Bascially.
So even after a court order, they're blocking the road. This is what I have a problem with. If they gathered on the side of the road, then no problem. But once they start to prevent work from happening, then there's a problem.
If I were TMT, I would sue the state for not clearing the protesters. They've been delayed for over a year now due to this. But then again, maybe they don't want add more to the PR fire.
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Bascially.
So even after a court order, they're blocking the road. This is what I have a problem with. If they gathered on the side of the road, then no problem. But once they start to prevent work from happening, then there's a problem.
If I were TMT, I would sue the state for not clearing the protesters. They've been delayed for over a year now due to this. But then again, maybe they don't want add more to the PR fire.
I agree. there is nothing to negotiate now, that time has past. they can protest, but don't interfere with the court order. at some point law enforcement has to start arresting people that are blocking the road. you cant block the road. its that simple.
someone must be telling law enforcement to stand down and let them protest. the longer this goes on, the more money will be wasted in more ways than one.
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Hawaii County Civil Defense: "Saddle Road is closed. Take alternate routes. It is unknown how long this blockage will remain."
I know how long it will remain... it will remain as long as the corrupt incompetent cops and state officials don't enforce the simple laws. What a joke!
HNN coverage:
"As one person in the tent is arrested, they’re being replaced by someone else.
Officials said those arrested would be processed in one of two ways.
They would either be taken to the Mauna Loa Access Road, written a ticket and released. But if they choose, they could also be physically arrested and taken to Hilo for processing."
So... the criminals will all be back doing it all over again in a matter of minutes, or at most, hours. Now that's some real serious law enforcement happening there! Only in Hawaii! Mo dakine fo shua!
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Our great Governor Ige must have been a circus performer. He straddles the fence better than any acrobat I've ever seen!
David Y. Ige, Governor, State of Hawaiʻi:
“We have followed a 10-year process to get this point, and the day for construction to begin has arrived.
At this time our number one priority is everyone’s safety. As construction begins, I continue to be
committed to engaging with people holding all perspectives on this issue and to making meaningful
changes that further contribute to the co-existence of culture and science on Mauna Kea.”
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protesters are on the H1 freeway westbound near Punahou overpass
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protesters are on the H1 freeway westbound near Punahou overpass
Seriously? Taking after BLM bullshit!
I mean I get it’s a sensitive and highly emotional issue all around, but messing with daily lives of folks is >:(
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over a telescope.
Id be understanding if it was a toxic waste dump but does a telescope harm the environment? it jist sits there.
Maybe if it didnt cost $1B it wouldnt be an issue.
Seems that this is an Al Sharpton shakedown
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over a telescope.
Id be understanding if it was a toxic waste dump but does a telescope harm the environment? it jist sits there.
Maybe if it didnt cost $1B it wouldnt be an issue.
Seems that this is an Al Sharpton shakedown
You don't get it. They are holy spiritual religious people who have the sensitivity, insight and perspective, not to mention a direct line to their gods themselves, to be able to determine what is (Mauna Kea) and what might not be (all the lands they "lease" for millions of dollars annually to Target, WalMart, Safeway, Home Depot, etc.) "sacred", and, that whatever they say is sacred, they also get to say who may or may not do what when. In other words, they are the boss of you.
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Our great Governor Ige must have been a circus performer. He straddles the fence better than any acrobat I've ever seen!
AND... he's a fucking asshole. :shaka:
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Did anyone see what former Governor Abercrombie had to say about the protesters? Should send Abercrombie and Ige to go talk to them. That should be an entertaining scene.
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were there protests for the earlier telescopes?
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I personally find it difficult to respect someone's religious beliefs when their actions don't respect others' lawful right to use public roadways.
Respect is a two-way street (pun intended :geekdanc:).
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What percentage of Hawaiians oppose the telescope? And how many Hawaiian groups support/oppose the telescope?
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were there protests for the earlier telescopes?
"Opposition to the Mauna Kea Observatories has existed since the first telescope was built in the late 1960s. "
In Honolulu, the governor and legislature, enthusiastic about the development, set aside an even larger area for the observatory causing opposition in the main city of the Big Island, Hilo. Native kānaka ʻōiwi believed the entire site was sacred and that developing the mountain, even for science, would spoil the area. Environmentalists were concerned about rare native bird populations and other citizens of Hilo were concerned about the sight of the domes from the city. Using town hall meetings, Jefferies was able to overcome opposition by weighing the economic advantage and prestige the island would receive.[6] There has been substantial opposition to the Mauna Kea observatories that continues to grow.[14] Over the years, the opposition to the observatories may have become the most visible example of the conflict western science has encountered over access and use of environmental and culturally significant sites.[15] Opposition to development grew shortly after expansion of the observatories commenced. Once access was opened up by the roadway to the summit, skiers began using it for recreation and objected when the road was closed as a precaution against vandalism when the telescopes were being built. Hunters voiced concerns, as did the Hawaiian Audubon Society, which was supported by Governor George Ariyoshi.[10]
The Audubon Society objected to further development on Mauna Kea over concerns to habitat of the endangered palila, an endemic species to only specific parts of this mountain. The bird is the last of the finch billed honeycreepers existing on the island. Over 50% of native bird species had been killed off due to loss of habitat from early western settlers, or the introduction of non-native species competing for resources. Hunters and sportsmen were concerned that the hunting of feral animals would be effected by the telescope operations.[16] A "Save Mauna Kea" movement was inspired by the proliferation of telescopes, with opposition believing development of the mountain to be sacrilegious.[17] Native Hawaiian non-profit groups, such as Kahea, (whose goals are the protection of cultural heritage and the environment), oppose development on Mauna Kea as a sacred space to the Hawaiian religion.[18] Today, Mauna Kea hosts the world's largest location for telescope observations in infrared and submillimeter astronomy. The land itself is protected by the U.S. Historical Preservation Act due to its significance to Hawaiian culture, but this still allowed development.[19]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opposition_to_the_Mauna_Kea_Observatories
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What percentage of Hawaiians oppose the telescope?
I read one letter from a person claiming to be "Hawaiian" (that's a whole can of worms in itself) who claimed there was a poll that 70% of "Hawaiians" FAVORED the TMT, but were mostly afraid to speak out due to responses from those opposed, including threats in addition to various name-calling. Can't find the article... it was on the Hawaii Free Press website the past few days and had a link to the poll.
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Aquamans sorry he cant make it
https://www.kitv.com/story/40792057/jason-momoa-so-sorry-he-cant-be-on-the-mauna-as-protests-continue (https://www.kitv.com/story/40792057/jason-momoa-so-sorry-he-cant-be-on-the-mauna-as-protests-continue)
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I can respect the fact that Hawaiians hold that land sacred and don't want more construction on it, but also wish all these activists were this animated at election time. Furthermore, why didn't they block the rail, or other far more invasive and harmful projects, imposed on not only Hawaiians, but all Hawaii citizens?
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Ige issued an emergency proclamation today. Tomorrow, law enforcement will have special powers to remove people from roadways and make arrests.
Not sure why a proclamation was needed to let police do the job they normally do everywhere else in the state.
https://www.bigislandvideonews.com/2019/07/17/ige-issues-emergency-proclamation-for-situation-on-mauna-kea/
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I’m so glad Hawaii was taken over by the USA... We can protest, say F-trump, glorify gays, etc.
Imagine if we were occupied by Japan, China, or even Russia, I don’t think any of those countries would stand for this...
All they get are slaps on the wrists... Instead of arrests, people would probably get “silenced” :rofl:
:closed:
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What percentage of Hawaiians oppose the telescope? And how many Hawaiian groups support/oppose the telescope?
Many of my Hawaiian friends who moved to the mainland have posted in support of the Hawaiians. But to be fair, I find that when someone leaves the islands, they become more proud of where they came from. Because prior to them leaving, they never cared about any Hawaiian issues. Since moving, their FB feed fill up with OHA stuff, telescope, sovereignty, etc...I would say this is a good handful of those I know who left.
Had 1 friend who I've ridden with before always would play hip hop or EDM music. Got in his car and he was jamming to IMUA. I was like WTF, when you started to listen to Hawaiian music. Another flys the Hawaii flag on her home. But not when she was here.
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I personally find it difficult to respect someone's religious beliefs when their actions don't respect others' lawful right to use public roadways.
Respect is a two-way street (pun intended :geekdanc:).
These people who do this are just assholes. So basically anyone who was on the fence of which side to be on, now would lean toward the TMT side.
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Our great Governor Ige must have been a circus performer. He straddles the fence better than any acrobat I've ever seen!
he's a frickin' gutless wonder. some people are destined to go through life accomplishing... not much. except maybe pissing people off with their indecisiveness and lack of action.
Did anyone see what former Governor Abercrombie had to say about the protesters? Should send Abercrombie and Ige to go talk to them. That should be an entertaining scene.
I'd bet that Abercrombie would suddenly discover that he's part Kanaka, Elizabeth Warren style. He would be embraced as a chant-leader kupuna by the TMT protesters.
Ige would be frustrated because he knows he couldn't make the same claim with any credibility.
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What percentage of Hawaiians oppose the telescope? And how many Hawaiian groups support/oppose the telescope?
Copied from a third party, so I don't have the link:
Honolulu Advertiser
"While media coverage of the Thirty Meter Telescope has been dominated by images of hundreds of protesters trying to block construction of the project, support for the telescope has been strong throughout the state in recent years.
About three-fourths of local residents have said they support the telescope in Honolulu Star- Advertiser polls conducted in 2016 and 2018. The polling also suggested growing support among Native Hawaiians, with 72% of those polled saying they supported the project in 2018, a significant increase from earlier."
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I was just stuck in traffic eastbound H1 in the dip by pearl city before the towers
truck stopped on the freeway with a bunch of flags on the back
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I watched the 5pm news and saw some cars driving slowly blocking all four lanes of the freeway with couple mopeds weaving in front of them. HPD came from the other way and was apparently able to apprehend them. If I was the judge I would suspend their license for 3 months and a $1000 fine. Get a 2nd offense then 1 year suspension, $2500 fine and 6 months in jail.
The big mistake law enforcement and the Governor did was not ending this nonsense on day one. Longer this goes now the more emboldened people will get.
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Personally I support it. Granted it is on "sacred" land but I think studying the stars is in no way disrespectful given the importance of the stars to the Native Hawaiians long ago. Now if they were building a shopping mall on a heiau I would have a problem but not the telescope on Mauna Kea.
I think the telescope has really just become a sort of proxy for the upset over the overthrown kingdom and other issues. I get the passion but I think they are picking a wrong hill to die on.
And when supporters shut down the freeway all they are going to do is alienate people to their cause.
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The big mistake law enforcement and the Governor did was not ending this nonsense on day one. Longer this goes now the more emboldened people will get.
Something about arresting old people doesn't go over well and time is probably going to be cheaper than paying lawsuits and having to fight more people when force gets used.
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Something about arresting old people doesn't go over well and time is probably going to be cheaper than paying lawsuits and having to fight more people when force gets used.
If old people, and I am one of them, break the law, they deserve to get arrested. They should go protest over the Feds not returning the land at Bellows and Fort DeRussy. Prime beaches and real estate that the Feds were supposed to have given back. But maybe we can follow their example if the state ever decides to try and confiscate guns. We can set up tents and a line of kupuna across the driveway of Washington Place and both sides of Beretania St and chant pro gun slogans. Would they evacuate Washington Place and shut down Beretania St on that block for public safety and let us do that till we got tired of protesting? We would be unarmed and just exercising our 1st Amendment rights.
EEF, I don't know how old you are, but I am close to 70 and am a far more dangerous person to mess with than when I was 50. I will be more dangerous yet the closer I get to 80. And watch out if I get to be a real old cuss of 90. Something about how the less time you have remaining on this earth, the less you care what happens to you.
So don't feel sorry or take pity on old people. I certainly don’t.
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Funny how some LE agree, but yet do their job.
And LE not even violating a right yet they clearing those who are blocking the road.
Imagine if they get orders to take peoples rights away...
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Put more observatories
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And LE not even violating a right yet they clearing those who are blocking the road.
They did not even do that. The pop up tents remained, others took the place of the kupunas that got arrested, who returned in just a few minutes because they were only taken 1/8 of a mile away, cited and released. The whole handling of this is a joke.
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They did not even do that. The pop up tents remained, others took the place of the kupunas that got arrested, who returned in just a few minutes because they were only taken 1/8 of a mile away, cited and released. The whole handling of this is a joke.
In my various comments, including multiple emails to the governor, I've tried to come up with a more accurate descriptor than "a joke", which was my original term used. Right now I'm at "preposterous lamedick incompetent clusterfuck"... but I'm always open further refinement. :shaka:
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Do you think the governor's emergency declaration was justified? I support the telescope, however the declaration seems to be going overboard for peaceful protests. I assume they could still arrest people for obstruction without the declaration.
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Do you think the governor's emergency declaration was justified? I support the telescope, however the declaration seems to be going overboard for peaceful protests. I assume they could still arrest people for obstruction without the declaration.
People standing in the road blocking construction workers, materials and tourists is an "Emergency", but 100,000 migrants arriving at an already overwhelmed border detention center is a "manufactured crisis" used to justify an emergency declaration.
Go figure.
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It was to show that he was doing "something". All grandstanding bullshit and inaction. Crowds are growing because nothing is being done. Wait till the weekend when the umemployed and unemployable are joined by those who have jobs but are against the TMT.
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It was to show that he was doing "something". All grandstanding bullshit and inaction. Crowds are growing because nothing is being done. Wait till the weekend when the umemployed and unemployable are joined by those who have jobs but are against the TMT.
My guess is most protest supporters are not anti-TMT as much as they are pro-protesting.
Reminds me of the Dakota Access Pipeline protests. Most protestors had less than a basic understanding of the pipeline at all.
In April 2016 two events spurred the mass protests. First, a young indigenous girl named Tokata Iron Eyes and her teenage
friends organized "ReZpect Our Water" as a social media based campaign to stop the pipeline.
Second, Standing Rock Sioux elder LaDonna Brave Bull Allard established a camp as a center for cultural preservation, spiritual
resistance to the pipeline, and for the defense of native sovereignty; over the summer the camp grew to thousands of people.
Calling it a cultural or spiritual resistance movement attracts all the hippie types regardless of the cause.
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Do you think the governor's emergency declaration was justified? I support the telescope, however the declaration seems to be going overboard for peaceful protests. I assume they could still arrest people for obstruction without the declaration.
I wouldn't call blocking the road "peaceful". More like passive aggressive. Would I be able to stand in front of your car wearing a Moms Demand Action shirt and stop you from driving?
Personally, I don't care for TMT or the protestors. So if they want to protest along the side of the road, then fine. But don't block peoples way. Just like how the protesting in down town. They're on the sidewalks and not in the middle of traffic.
So if force needs to be used to arrest or detain someone because they're blocking the road, then so be it.
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People standing in the road blocking construction workers, materials and tourists is an "Emergency", but 100,000 migrants arriving at an already overwhelmed border detention center is a "manufactured crisis" used to justify an emergency declaration.
Go figure.
Ige should do a Mazie and just blame Trump.
In Ige voice: "uhhh, I signed the proclamation because orange man bad. MeToo, remove borders, free stuff for everyone"
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My guess is most protest supporters are not anti-TMT as much as they are pro-protesting.
Reminds me of the Dakota Access Pipeline protests. Most protestors had less than a basic understanding of the pipeline at all.
When I was a college student at UH Manoa back in the 90s, the state was going to cut funding and UH was considering raising the tuition price. Back then it was like $600 a semester. There was a big protest march and rally at the capitol.
Back then I jumped in with everyone since everyone was doing it, and figured raising my tuition was a bad thing. Didn't think about taxpayers who had to fund my tuition, government waste, how the budget worked, etc.
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When I was a college student at UH Manoa back in the 90s, the state was going to cut funding and UH was considering raising the tuition price. Back then it was like $600 a semester. There was a big protest march and rally at the capitol.
Back then I jumped in with everyone since everyone was doing it, and figured raising my tuition was a bad thing. Didn't think about taxpayers who had to fund my tuition, government waste, how the budget worked, etc.
That's what happens more times than not. People join protests based on what the protestors tell them. What are the odds their description of the issue is biased, skewed or incomplete?
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When I was a college student at UH Manoa back in the 90s, the state was going to cut funding and UH was considering raising the tuition price. Back then it was like $600 a semester. There was a big protest march and rally at the capitol.
Back then I jumped in with everyone since everyone was doing it, and figured raising my tuition was a bad thing. Didn't think about taxpayers who had to fund my tuition, government waste, how the budget worked, etc.
There is nothing wrong with looking after yourself. So to me, it's all G that you don't want tuition to raise. Regardless of the trickle down effect. But I get what Flapp is saying and agree. I talked to some and they are all "Kau Inoa" and stuff. See my previous post about being more Hawaiian all of a sudden.
If someone can clarify this because I saw an impeach Ige petition going around. You can't impeach a gov unless they broke the law right? So if true, then they can ask for his resignation, but not impeach. Basically, if they voted for him, or didn't vote at all and all the reps involved, then they gotta live with the decision.
Cause if can, then shit, I'll sign it because of RAPBACK, bumpstock, and red flag.
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Tulsi just spewed a two and half minute video of bullshit of why Ige should remove the state of emergency and put construction of TMT on hold so the leaders of "both sides" can pooonooono and come to a mutally agreeable understanding. After 10 years of vehement non-disagreement? What's different now? Her use of the phrase "transcendental reality" and stating that those who don't agree with her are "hard hearted" (among other things) are utterly demeaning and arrogant (only she and the "native people" are spiritual enough to grasp what normal white people are ignorant of... that which is TRULY important...). She's a fucking loser and liar and fantasist. Fuck her and her fucking lying guru.
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Ige just made a good point.
All those people and cars on the Mauna are causing environmental damage in itself.
They gotta go pee and poo someplace.
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Ige just made a good point.
All those people and cars on the Mauna are causing environmental damage in itself.
They gotta go pee and poo someplace.
The state has kindly put up Porta Pottys. You can see them in some of the videos and photos.
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There's also reports of drug and alcohol use in the protestor camps...on the sacred ground.
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I don't see the issue of desecration. Although the telescope is huge it's not damaging the land and the mountain is being cared for. Pele built the islands for the Hawaiian explorers to populate. Building a telescope allows us to explore the stars so that someday people will live on other planets in the universe. The telescope also provides jobs for Hawaiians and funds their education and programs.
It's clear that military use and bombing would be desecration. Building a Disneyland on top of the mountain could also be considered desecration. But building a telescope seems to fit in with Hawaiian culture and betterment of it's people.
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I don't see the issue of desecration. Although the telescope is huge it's not damaging the land and the mountain is being cared for. Pele built the islands for the Hawaiian explorers to populate. Building a telescope allows us to explore the stars so that someday people will live on other planets in the universe. The telescope also provides jobs for Hawaiians and funds their education and programs.
It's clear that military use and bombing would be desecration. Building a Disneyland on top of the mountain could also be considered desecration. But building a telescope seems to fit in with Hawaiian culture and betterment of it's people.
....
I agree.
The ancient Hawaiians explored their way over here.
The Hokulea explored their way back, and more.
The telescope is just another way to explore.
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Monday had about 300, today est about 800, I bet tomorrow 1200 or more. Longer they wait, worse it will get. Ige is on BI but he won't go talk to the protesters.
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Monday had about 300, today est about 800, I bet tomorrow 1200 or more. Longer they wait, worse it will get. Ige is on BI but he won't go talk to the protesters.
At his press conference he claimed to be in contact with at least some of the "protest" "leaders". He claimed that there are various factions, demanding different things, some of whom have not responded to requests for communication. It would seem, given that fact, that there is only one course of action possible... clear them out. His cop out is that his priority is "to make sure no one in the community is hurt". So he's thinking if they start mass arrests and/or physical removals that some "protestors" will turn violent and hurt cops, and/or that in response to attacks some cops will hurt "protestors"? If so, then there is only one answer: do nothing, ever. Don't build the telescope. Give all land back to the people who claim that some randomly designated genetic percentage of some kind of DNA entitles them to ownership and to dictate who may or may not any longer "own" any land here or even reside or visit here. Sounds like a plan. Way to go ignoramus coward.
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Where were all these people during the planning phase?
Not like a contract was awarded overnight.
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Couldn’t they just send the Chinatown HPDs and have them issue tickets to the protesters for blocking the road?
Quick way to meet quota.
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There's also reports of drug and alcohol use in the protestor camps...on the sacred ground.
That really wouldn't be a surprise. A few heinekens and that ancient Hawaiian medicinal plant, marijuana.
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If old people, and I am one of them, break the law, they deserve to get arrested.
True, but I am talking optics here. What the government doesn't want is to give more people reason to come up and protest which would make everything harder. More force and more arrests aren't always the answer. When dealing with a peaceful protest, sometimes the best option is to wait them out. Its not hard to imagine how bad things could turn out of a police riot line starts moving in.
Heck, maybe this is all a distraction and they are taking up all the equipment up a dirt road on the back side of the mountain.
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This has been going on for 10 years. How long do you want to wait? It is like a cancer. The longer you wait, the worse it will get.
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This has been going on for 10 years. How long do you want to wait? It is like a cancer. The longer you wait, the worse it will get.
The protest has been going on for 10 years? The protest will get a lot worse if the cops (AKA the government) goes in there with pepper spray and swinging batons.
All it takes is one or two zealous protestors to come out swinging a weapon at the cops and the cops respond accordingly to make this thing blow up. Imagine some aunty getting hit in the face with a pepper ball on accident because a cop was shooting at the violent protestor amongst them. A big brawl starts, lawsuits, hospital bills, workman's comp, lawsuits, more protestors, more violence.
I think the government is smart taking their time here. They are treating the protestors with a lot of respect which is smart on many levels. A lot of the cops there know a lot of the protestors and they don't want tensions among a smaller community inflamed there.
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If the solution is to wait, then how long? The summit is closed so all astronomers and support staff are unemployed, and in turn other businesses will be affected. Valuable research time is being wasted and is costly. Some of that research is season dependant. Very expensive equipment can breakdown if not constantly maintained. Hawaiians that aren't part of the protest can't practice their religion there. Millions will be spent on law enforcement. The hundreds or thousands of protestors are damaging the environment.
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If they all wear mask and dress in all black, the "protestors" can do what ever they want. Even assault people.
Where the ball was was dropped was not going after anyone who is blocking the road right away and continue to do so. And keep the road clear. Can protest a long as not blocking the road.
Another reason why i never vote ige or any rep in my district. So i can grumble.
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The protest has been going on for 10 years? The protest will get a lot worse if the cops (AKA the government) goes in there with pepper spray and swinging batons.
Yes. Go look it up if you don't believe it has been dragging on that long. The government will not be able to out wait the protesters.
If you cannot out wait them and the road needs to be opened, what do you suggest if you cannot use force? You cannot reason with or convince them to let it get built.
In any case, this shows that the government is powerless to try and confiscate guns in America. So all the Democrats who want to repeal the 2A or outright take guns, lots of luck.
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Yes. Go look it up if you don't believe it has been dragging on that long. The government will not be able to out wait the protesters.
If you cannot out wait them and the road needs to be opened, what do you suggest if you cannot use force? You cannot reason with or convince them to let it get built.
In any case, this shows that the government is powerless to try and confiscate guns in America. So all the Democrats who want to repeal the 2A or outright take guns, lots of luck.
That's the underlying problem. There is no middle ground for the people trying to literally stop the TMT from being built. if they allow it, they lose the fight.
You can't reason with someone who is unreasonable. After 10 years, all reasonable compromises should have been exhausted. It's time to push through or throw in the towel.
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don't see any potties around
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don't see any potties around
They are there. In fact, yesterday news said state brought in more and lua trucks are now servicing them twice a day since an estimated 1200 people were there on the weekend.
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Also, Ige went back to Oahu. All he did was make a statement and never went up Mauna Kea. Another waste of tax payer funds.
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so much for the advancement of science
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my kids are going the protest in Waikiki today...I told them "sure go ahead, but they better be sure they know what they are protesting about and don't make trouble."
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I am not Hawaiian blood, nor a scientist, so I don't feel as one that can hold a valid opinion on the subject. I am, However, born and raised here and hapa, mixed of many races and cultures. I've been taught and can respect many cultures, and I can respect the wishes of those who are in opposition. I look at is like someone burning down my church to build something secular over it. Wouldn't that give one outrage?
Any way. Opportunity was there to make a change, by electing known opponents to this project, yet opportunity was wasted on complacency, which rears its ugly head every election cycle. Nothing but excuses and more excuses. Complaints about how its corrupt and votes won't change anything, blah blah blah... yeah sure it won't, because NO ONE VOTES!
People expect things to get better, yet want to maintain the "ainokea" attitude? Lol. Good luck with that. I'm not opposed to TMT, and not opposed to people being respected either.
My hope is that such energies, as being expended now, are equally used to exercise such rights, and change leadership, when the time is proper....
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I think protesting the telescope is just an excuse for all the anger about US Imperialism and Colonialism.
No one took a step back to think about what they are protesting
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I think protesting the telescope is just an excuse for all the anger about US Imperialism and Colonialism.
No one took a step back to think about what they are protesting
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I think what you said is true.
I believe the only reason my kids are going to Waikiki today is because my niece is like a "pushy" local activist.
They just following the cousin.
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https://honolulu.craigslist.org/oah/zip/d/honolulu-free-gas-masks/6936501550.html (https://honolulu.craigslist.org/oah/zip/d/honolulu-free-gas-masks/6936501550.html)
:rofl:
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I think what you said is true.
I believe the only reason my kids are going to Waikiki today is because my niece is like a "pushy" local activist.
They just following the cousin.
explains our low voter turnout.
I was told to "get educated" about the issue with the TMT from a fellow co worker. I explained my points about the advancement of science, jobs creation, exploration.etc. then the personal attacks came. "Fuck you and your logic" "I no care about your logically explanation"
I'm willing to bet that if a superior race visited Earth ala "The Day the Earth stood Still" and told us to build a telescope somewhere to save our planet there would still be opponents of it.
But anyways, what does this have to do with our fight for 2A rights? - absolutely nothing. IF the govt. had a mass confiscation of all weapons there wouldn't be a whisper of anything. Long lines of people willing to comply with the same wishy-washy govt. willing to forego with a telescope project.
Imagine if we had the same momentum with 2A rights...govt. would squash it quickly.
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so much for the advancement of science
And waste of tax payer funds. At least the lua companies making money and the drivers getting lot of OT, so all is not lost. They better start putting dumpsters up there so they can at least try and keep their sacred grounds clean.
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I wish a survey would be done for all those there to see if they voted and who they voted for. Again, this project didnt happen over night.
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This is the TMT Timeline and some are asking for more time.
http://www.maunakeaandtmt.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/TMT.Timeline.2019.pdf
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I have to give the protesters credit. As long as I have been here a very
small part of the community have wanted to destroy
the Astronomy facilities on the summit. This is due to the sacredness
of a million year old volcano discovered and occupied by a people
only 800 years ago.
They have shut it down now.
I now longer derive income from the summit,
so it doesn't affect me. I could care less if you removed
all the observatories from the summit, which is the
protesters goal BTW.
When I was in the industry, I said the TMT would never be built.
They understated the costs at the Critical Design Review AND
they didn't want to payoff the locals, The Hawaiians that "worship"
the summit.
I suggested that they hire only people of Hawaiian
decent to provide 24/7 security and maintain the facility.
Then there would be no protests.
It is all about money, pure, and simple.
Many problems( protests) were solved when the people running Mauna Kea
facilities hired "Rangers" of the correct "cultural" background to patrol the summit.
I may seem jaded, but I remember what went on with the Keck outriggers.
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So, are the people claiming the mountain is sacred barred from practicing their religion? Are they blocked from using the mountain after the telescope is built? Do they even use the mountain now?
If they are practicing their religion on the mountain now, and there are already telescopes there, then there's no reason to believe the TMT will change that. In fact, several telescopes will be decommissioned and removed after the TMT is operational.
There are at least a dozen Mauna Kea / TMT Protest campaigns on GoFundMe.com. Some as high as $25K and $50K. Some were started a year or more ago. Some are just to help pay travel expenses of people wanting to go protest on the mountain.
I wonder who's receiving the money raised for the protestors, and where it's being spent.
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I wish a survey would be done for all those there to see if they voted and who they voted for. Again, this project didnt happen over night.
This clown act is a shining example of what "low information voters" are.
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So, are the people claiming the mountain is sacred barred from practicing their religion? Are they blocked from using the mountain after the telescope is built? Do they even use the mountain now?
If they are practicing their religion on the mountain now, and there are already telescopes there, then there's no reason to believe the TMT will change that. In fact, several telescopes will be decommissioned and removed after the TMT is operational.
There are at least a dozen Mauna Kea / TMT Protest campaigns on GoFundMe.com. Some as high as $25K and $50K. Some were started a year or more ago. Some are just to help pay travel expenses of people wanting to go protest on the mountain.
I wonder who's receiving the money raised for the protestors, and where it's being spent.
It's a shakedown.
AOC and Bernie Sanders, the same people who push science claims about climate change are for protesting a telescope. Hypocrites.
The people who are protesting are just pawns for the people wanting to get money out of it. Easily manipulated.
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If they want to protest, fine. I support their right, however when they start blocking roads and harassing people etc, then I draw the line. Do we need TMT with Hubble and Keck at our disposal? Not qualified to speculate but seems to me maybe we don’t need the TMT. ???
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Would you consider the TMT a modern temple?
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If they want to protest, fine. I support their right, however when they start blocking roads and harassing people etc, then I draw the line. Do we need TMT with Hubble and Keck at our disposal? Not qualified to speculate but seems to me maybe we don’t need the TMT. ???
Nobody needs an AR-15,
or an SUV,
or a 32 oz soft drink.
According to the specs, the TMT will offer TWLEVE TIMES the resolution of the best telescope in the world today.
TMT has a 30-meter (98 feet) diameter primary mirror. At it's focal ratio of f/1, that gives it a 30-meter focal length (aperture).
Keck has a 10-meter primary mirror.
With plans to go to Mars and beyond, it makes sense to use state of the art telescopes rather than relying on decades old technology and observatories.
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Not about a telescope ....
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/standoff-on-hawaii-mountain-is-about-more-than-a-telescope/ar-AAECdae
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If they want to protest, fine. I support their right, however when they start blocking roads and harassing people etc, then I draw the line. Do we need TMT with Hubble and Keck at our disposal? Not qualified to speculate but seems to me maybe we don’t need the TMT. ???
I'll try to answer your questions, I've been out of the loop for a few years but all the rationals still exist.
" Do we need TMT with Hubble and Keck at our disposal"
Hubble is nearly dead and is barely working, I think if one more Gyro fails it will be useless.
The replacement, The James Web space telescope is way over cost and they are having some
very real technical problems, I'm not sure they will every get over them.
Keck I and II are awesome facilities. Fairly up to date.
They had a mirror cracking problem I'm not sure they have fixed yet.
There are also limits as to what they can do to update the telescope itself
to deal with Keck's physical limitations eg wind shake. The summit gets very windy.
In Astronomy the more Photons you can gather
repeatedly on the same detector Pixel 13 micrometers( or less) across the better.
Keck is ten meters across. TMT is thirty meters across. that is a significant increase in
area to gather photons. TMT is also designed to compensate for problems large
telescopes like Keck, et al have.
The Astronomical community figured the billion dollar Plus cost of the TMT is worth the effort.
India, China, Japan, Canada, et al seem to agree as they are heavily invested in the TMT.
Do we need the TMT? In astronomy all you are doing is studying history.
Studying galaxies that may not exist anymore as their light took 13 billion years to get here.
What good does that do?
Why go to the moon? Why go to Mars?
The answer is because somebody is willing to pay for it,
because they want it, not because they need it.
Personally I thought the TMT money would be better spent
eradicating cancer, but that isn't as sexy as finding binary
Black holes in a far off Galaxy.
Hope that helps some.
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Nobody needs an AR-15,
or an SUV,
or a 32 oz soft drink.
According to the specs, the TMT will offer TWLEVE TIMES the resolution of the best telescope in the world today.
TMT has a 30-meter (98 feet) diameter primary mirror. At it's focal ratio of f/1, that gives it a 30-meter focal length (aperture).b
Keck has a 10-meter primary mirror.
With plans to go to Mars and beyond, it makes sense to use state of the art telescopes rather than relying on decades old technology and observatories.
Most large telescopes aren't used for that. Old observatories work just fine.
In 1769 Captain Cook observed the transit of Venus across the sun in order to allow
us to figure out the size of our known solar system. That is why he was sent to Tahiti.
The data gathered was pretty accurate.
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Most large telescopes aren't used for that. Old observatories work just fine.
In 1769 Captain Cook observed the transit of Venus across the sun in order to allow
us to figure out the size of our known solar system. That is why he was sent to Tahiti.
The data gathered was pretty accurate.
We used to get around pretty good on railroads, too.
There are numerous discoveries that were made using math and limited observation techniques. That doesn't mean we should limit ourselves to what was used decades or centuries ago.
We won't know what we will find until we find it, and technology that didn't exist 10 or 20 years ago might be the thing that makes those discoveries possible.
Old observatories are hindered by the limits of their generation.
New technologies in computers, software, electronics, and manufacturing can let us make mirrors better, lighter and more powerful than we could before. The TMT is also a multinational venture, sharing the cost and the scientific brainpower of several nations to better enable the TMT's construction and use.
And old observatories might be able to "do that now", but the TMT will be able to do it at twelve times the resolution. That's significant when tracking objects or monitoring the surface of Mars.
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my kids are going the protest in Waikiki today...I told them "sure go ahead, but they better be sure they know what they are protesting about and don't make trouble."
That would be "a small minority, if they have the "right" DNA, has the right to impose and dictate to the majority what they may and may not do"?
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We used to get around pretty good on railroads, too.
There are numerous discoveries that were made using math and limited observation techniques. That doesn't mean we should limit ourselves to what was used decades or centuries ago.
We won't know what we will find until we find it, and technology that didn't exist 10 or 20 years ago might be the thing that makes those discoveries possible.
Old observatories are hindered by the limits of their generation.
New technologies in computers, software, electronics, and manufacturing can let us make mirrors better, lighter and more powerful than we could before. The TMT is also a multinational venture, sharing the cost and the scientific brainpower of several nations to better enable the TMT's construction and use.
And old observatories might be able to "do that now", but the TMT will be able to do it at twelve times the resolution. That's significant when tracking objects or monitoring the surface of Mars.
I know I upset you sometimes.
Perhaps you did not read all my comments closely.
TMT is not going to be used for Mars studies.
I was privy to the TMT Critical Design Review.
I know TMT engineering and science staff.
I know Keck staff.
I know Gemini staff.
I know CFHT staff.
I've worked with them.
I'll stop there as you may be able to figure out my real
name if I say more.
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I'll try to answer your questions, I've been out of the loop for a few years but all the rationals still exist.
" Do we need TMT with Hubble and Keck at our disposal"
Hubble is nearly dead and is barely working, I think if one more Gyro fails it will be useless.
The replacement, The James Web space telescope is way over cost and they are having some
very real technical problems, I'm not sure they will every get over them.
Keck I and II are awesome facilities. Fairly up to date.
They had a mirror cracking problem I'm not sure they have fixed yet.
There are also limits as to what they can do to update the telescope itself
to deal with Keck's physical limitations eg wind shake. The summit gets very windy.
In Astronomy the more Photons you can gather
repeatedly on the same detector Pixel 13 micrometers( or less) across the better.
Keck is ten meters across. TMT is thirty meters across. that is a significant increase in
area to gather photons. TMT is also designed to compensate for problems large
telescopes like Keck, et al have.
The Astronomical community figured the billion dollar Plus cost of the TMT is worth the effort.
India, China, Japan, Canada, et al seem to agree as they are heavily invested in the TMT.
Do we need the TMT? In astronomy all you are doing is studying history.
Studying galaxies that may not exist anymore as their light took 13 billion years to get here.
What good does that do?
Why go to the moon? Why go to Mars?
The answer is because somebody is willing to pay for it,
because they want it, not because they need it.
Personally I thought the TMT money would be better spent
eradicating cancer, but that isn't as sexy as finding binary
Black holes in a far off Galaxy.
Hope that helps some.
that's a lot of good info about the TMT and telescopes in general. More than what the news is covering. This is where the project failed - the media campaign. All the TMT represents now is repression.
BTW, lots of trucks with the distressed flags. More of an excuse to organize a cruise than anything. Where were all these truck drivers were during the process to decide on the TMT ?
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I know I upset you sometimes.
Perhaps you did not read all my comments closely.
TMT is not going to be used for Mars studies.
I was privy to the TMT Critical Design Review.
I know TMT engineering and science staff.
I know Keck staff.
I know Gemini staff.
I know CFHT staff.
I've worked with them.
I'll stop there as you may be able to figure out my real
name if I say more.
You don't upset me. It's takes far more than what you've got to get under my skin. I just enjoy pointing out how often you try to make crazy analogies that fall flat on their faces.
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There are many space borne telescopes, like Hubble, that will out perform earth bound telescopes by a long shot. Sorry, I thought Keck was space based. My bad.....
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There are many space borne telescopes, like Hubble, that will out perform earth bound telescopes by a long shot. Sorry, I thought Keck was space based. My bad.....
The problem with space-based is the cost of maintenance, repairs and upgrades. We stopped launching space shuttles in 2011. We'd have to out-source the missions to other countries or private space companies.
Hubble is expected to be functional through the mid-2020's.
https://www.space.com/42983-hubble-space-telescope-five-more-years.html
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OHA has no position on the siting of the TMT on Maunakea
Telescope? What telescope?
As protesters pour into the cameras view atop the Saddle Road, Office of Hawaiian Affairs (OHA) Trustees
are reminding Governor Ige of OHA’s real goal—not stopping the proposed Thirty Meter Telescope (TMT)
but gaining control of thousands of acres atop Mauna Kea.
A July 12, 2019 letter to Ige signed by OHA Trustees Chair Colette Machado and Trustee Dan Ahuna yields
this nugget:
As you know, OHA has no position on the siting of the TMT on Maunakea….
In a July 14, 2019 news release, Machado and Ahuna urge:
We as a society must set aside our differences on TMT….
Machado and Ahuna attempt to co-opt the protesters--not as anti-Telescope ‘protectors’ but:
“OHA beneficiaries and others who have long voiced concerns about the state’s decades-long mismanagement of
Maunakea.”
And beneficiaries they are. Many of the protesters are affiliated with ‘immersion schools’ and non-profits funded by OHA.
In a July 17 statement issued just as police began making the first arrests, OHA again attempts to co-opt the Mauna Kea
protesters:
...Regardless of your position on TMT, we must all agree with Gov. Ige’s 2015 statement that the state has “failed” Maunakea.
OHA will continue to proceed with our lawsuit against the state and UH for their mismanagement of Maunakea. We
continue to call for the state and UH to be held accountable as fiduciaries for our trust resources, and we demand that
a new management structure is immediately installed for Maunakea.
Media consumers will be “pana po’o” over those statements. After years of media-borne agit-prop, a Google search for “sacred
Mauna Kea” pulls up 7,460 results. Reacting to the protests, a UH Manoa grad student “studying indigenous history and settler
colonialism” tells West Hawaii Today, “Money will never justify the desecration of sacred places.”
Wrong.
$50M should just about cover it.
OHA’s point person on Mauna Kea issues, Kealoha Pisciotta, in 2008, demanded $50M a year, saying “the rent is past due.” In
2002, former OHA Trustees Chair Clayton Hee, demanded astronomers give OHA “$20 million in endowments.”
Governor Ige’s 2015 10-Point Plan for Mauna Kea included transfer to DLNR—not OHA-- jurisdiction of “all lands (over 10,000 acres)
not specifically needed for astronomy.” The acreage is part of the ‘Ceded Land’ trust held by the State for five purposes delineated in
the Admission Act including, “support of the public schools and other public educational institutions.”
At the center of its current strategy, a 2017 lawsuit filed by OHA “requests the court to order the state to fulfill its trust obligations
relating to Mauna Kea and to terminate UH’s general lease for the mountain for breach of the lease’s terms.”
In the news release announcing the lawsuit, OHA also de-emphasized the telescope. OHA Trustee Dan Ahuna is quoted:
“This is not about any one telescope. This lawsuit is about addressing the state’s failure to manage the entire mountain for nearly
half a century.”
“It’s time to abandon any hope that UH is capable or even willing to provide the level of aloha and attention to Mauna Kea that it deserves.
We need to come together as a community to completely re-think how we care for the mauna, and that starts with cancelling the university’s
master lease.”
With the current master lease set to expire in 2033, UH lease renewal efforts are again underway after stops and starts going beck to 2013.
The UH Regents will be considering new administrative rules for Mauna Kea at their August 22, 2019 meeting.
How can OHA be trusted as a land manager given its mis-management of Waimea Valley and other assets?
In January, 2017 lawyers for OHA’s limited liability corporations argued that “Sole title to the land comprising Waimea Valley was transferred
to Hi’ipaka LLC (by OHA) in 2007. The State does not own the valley nor any of Hi’ipaka’s other assets….” Rejecting a UIPA open records
request from Hawai’i Free Press, OHA’s LLCs pursued that line of reasoning, claiming they were not state assets--and therefore immune to
UIPA--until Honolulu First Circuit Court Judge Jeffrey Crabtree rejected their claims in his June 25, 2019, “Finding of Fact and Conclusions of
Law.”
For nearly a year, OHA insiders have lied to the legislature and stonewalled an audit of their secretive LLCs—thus placing OHA’s legislative
funding at risk. When Trustee Keli’i Akina challenged this, the other trustees voted to “investigate’ him for ‘disloyalty’.
OHA once had a deal to support TMT in exchange for money—they welched on it when the 2015 protests began.
http://www.hawaiifreepress.com/ArticlesMain/tabid/56/ID/23903/Machado-OHA-has-no-position-on-the-siting-of-the-TMT-on-Maunakea.aspx?utm_source=July+21%2C+2019+News+from+HawaiiFreePress++&utm_campaign=July+21%2C+2019+Email+&utm_medium=email
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TMT should sue the state for all the expenses and time wasted and go build the TMT in the Canary Islands, which was their 2nd choice.
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OHA has no position on the siting of the TMT on Maunakea
http://www.hawaiifreepress.com/ArticlesMain/tabid/56/ID/23903/Machado-OHA-has-no-position-on-the-siting-of-the-TMT-on-Maunakea.aspx?utm_source=July+21%2C+2019+News+from+HawaiiFreePress++&utm_campaign=July+21%2C+2019+Email+&utm_medium=email
And there is the puppet master and the one with hands open for a payment.
We could be the land where new discoveries are being made.
But I give credit to the "movement". They are easily riled up. Their efforts will be rewarded but OHA will reap it.
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TMT should sue the state for all the expenses and time wasted and go build the TMT in the Canary Islands, which was their 2nd choice.
2nd draft choice, but was it as good or not even close to mauna kea?
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2nd draft choice, but was it as good or not even close to mauna kea?
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Not as good. Mauna Kea is about the best place in the world to build a telescope. Meanwhile, HNN says 2000 people were up there this weekend. Large protests taking place in various cities in the US. A large one in Waikiki this past weekend. Like I said in the beginning, this should have been nipped in the bud. LEO should have been in place the Saturday before and not allowed anyone one to walk or drive on the Access Rd and certainly not allow those tents to be erected.
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Trump should come out in support of the protesters. That would throw Democrats into full insane meltdown mode. It would be hilarious.
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Not as good. Mauna Kea is about the best place in the world to build a telescope. Meanwhile, HNN says 2000 people were up there this weekend. Large protests taking place in various cities in the US. A large one in Waikiki this past weekend. Like I said in the beginning, this should have been nipped in the bud. LEO should have been in place the Saturday before and not allowed anyone one to walk or drive on the Access Rd and certainly not allow those tents to be erected.
The only question all along has been: Has this "strategy" by the government been due to incompetence and malfeasance, or due to the intent to aid and abet the racist criminals?
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The only question all along has been: Has this "strategy" by the government been due to incompetence and malfeasance, or due to the intent to aid and abet the racist criminals?
Wasn't Kealoha on one of the impact study boards?
I think this is Hawaii incompetence for all those invovled. But the tinfoil hat on me wants to think that since day 1 of the planning, the project was hush hush by everyone. Media, reps, boards, etc...This way once it's approved and contracts are signed, cannot stop it. I say hush hush as in maybe one 20 second story on the news about it years ago. Why doesn't the media release who were on all these boards and everyone involved at the first bidding stages? Because they want to get reelected.
See Green on the mountain this morning. I do give him some leeway because he was not in politics when this began, so he could do nothing. But for him to show up in his scrubs,to me is a photo op for election of gov. Wait and see and he will use "I was at Mauna Kea with the people". He doesn't want to make a statement against Ige yet, because Ige might replace him or do things to make him look bad for gov election. Cause Ige is done after this, his final term ,so he no care.
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Trump should come out in support of the protesters. That would throw Democrats into full insane meltdown mode. It would be hilarious.
that would be hilarious. The protestors wuould probably flip and say F&CK TRUMP. He is against science. He will get blamed for not getting the telescope built
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that would be hilarious. The protestors wuould probably flip and say F&CK TRUMP. He is against science. He will get blamed for not getting the telescope built
Or sign a XO like how he did for Dakota pipeline. They say fuck him anyways, so might as well do a XO.
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The problem with space-based is the cost of maintenance, repairs and upgrades. We stopped launching space shuttles in 2011. We'd have to out-source the missions to other countries or private space companies.
Cost to build it is another problem. Ten billion for the James Webb telescope vs one billion for TMT
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Cost to build it is another problem. Ten billion for the James Webb telescope vs one billion for TMT
A lot of that is probably communications and guidance systems unnecessary for a ground-based observatory. The orbiting observatories also require redundancy of almost every system and part to avoid having to fly up every year to do repairs.
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According to the specs, the TMT will offer TWLEVE TIMES the resolution of the best telescope in the world today.
nitpicking here, but the Extremely Large Telescope (ELT) currently being built in Chile by the European Southern Observatory is 39 meters, which is obviously bigger than TMT, so TMT would already be smaller if it were to be built
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extremely_Large_Telescope
Though I realize that TMT would supplement the ELT because ELT is in the Southern hemisphere and TMT would be in the Northern Hemisphere.
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nitpicking here, but the Extremely Large Telescope (ELT) currently being built in Chile by the European Southern Observatory is 39 meters, which is obviously bigger than TMT, so TMT would already be smaller if it were to be built
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extremely_Large_Telescope
Though I realize that TMT would supplement the ELT because ELT is in the Southern hemisphere and TMT would be in the Northern Hemisphere.
Lots of technical and mechanical issues to solve the larger the mirror gets. ELT original plan was for 100m primary mirror, but the segments were too large to transport over Chile's roads to the construction site.
Two mirror panels are removed and cleaned on a daily rotating basis. Monitoring systems look for variations of curvature due to wind and weight distribution when the mirror moves. They have to be adjusted automatically to maintain a perfect shape. The larger the mirror, the more difficult that job becomes.
Increasing the size brings new problems and challenges to solve or mitigate. Until they are built and working, all we can do is trust the designers and testers didn't overlook something significant, like they did on the Hubble mirror.
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Lots of technical and mechanical issues to solve the larger the mirror gets. ELT original plan was for 100m primary mirror, but the segments were too large to transport over Chile's roads to the construction site.
Two mirror panels are removed and cleaned on a daily rotating basis. Monitoring systems look for variations of curvature due to wind and weight distribution when the mirror moves. They have to be adjusted automatically to maintain a perfect shape. The larger the mirror, the more difficult that job becomes.
Increasing the size brings new problems and challenges to solve or mitigate. Until they are built and working, all we can do is trust the designers and testers didn't overlook something significant, like they did on the Hubble mirror.
You are correct. But you really have no idea how difficult mirror segment exchange really is.
also mirrors are "cleaned" with a CO2 snow not removed. The summit is very dirty.
When removed segments are stripped and re-coated.
You can't just use Windex.
ELT and the proposed JELT ( bet you didn't know about that one!) use the same technologies as
TMT and the Kecks.
Coatings are selected on Reflectivity and Emissivity.
You want to reflect as many photons as possible, but at the same time add as little heat
Photons as possible. Most astronomy is done in the Infra red( heat).
Aluminum is the metal of choice, or really is the one they are stuck with.
I think if they can solve the problems, James Web will be the best
telescope we can ever have. Perhaps put up two or three.
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Or they could just hire John the waiter for $40K a year.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXoM_9aEgtg
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You are correct. But you really have no idea how difficult mirror segment exchange really is.
also mirrors are "cleaned" with a CO2 snow not removed. The summit is very dirty.
When removed segments are stripped and re-coated.
You can't just use Windex.
ELT and the proposed JELT ( bet you didn't know about that one!) use the same technologies as
TMT and the Kecks.
Coatings are selected on Reflectivity and Emissivity.
You want to reflect as many photons as possible, but at the same time add as little heat
Photons as possible. Most astronomy is done in the Infra red( heat).
Aluminum is the metal of choice, or really is the one they are stuck with.
I think if they can solve the problems, James Web will be the best
telescope we can ever have. Perhaps put up two or three.
What about my comments leads you to that conclusion? I've read about the process and the products used to clean and increase reflectivity of mirror segments. It's exactly why they only remove 2 segments per day -- time-consuming process. They replace the mirror segments with blank panels while cleaning and re-coating.
You need to stop making every reply you post about me. Trying to get under my skin isn't a productive, nor sane, hobby.
Yes, I already know about the JELT. When you say "technologies," I assume you're referring to mirror design.
Europe is paying for the ELT, costing over 1.1B Euros. If you have a billion Euros burning a whole in your pocket, feel free to fund another. :thumbsup:
With other priorities here on Earth, it's difficult to appropriate that much to multiple observatories that offer no improvements over existing. Technology and processes improve and become cheaper over time. In 25 more years, who knows what new limits for observatory design, construction and capabilities will be.
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What about my comments leads you to that conclusion? I've read about the process and the products used to clean and increase reflectivity of mirror segments. It's exactly why they only remove 2 segments per day -- time-consuming process. They replace the mirror segments with blank panels while cleaning and re-coating.
You need to stop making every reply you post about me. Trying to get under my skin isn't a productive, nor sane, hobby.
Yes, I already know about the JELT. When you say "technologies," I assume you're referring to mirror design.
Europe is paying for the ELT, costing over 1.1B Euros. If you have a billion Euros burning a whole in your pocket, feel free to fund another. :thumbsup:
With other priorities here on Earth, it's difficult to appropriate that much to multiple observatories that offer no improvements over existing. Technology and processes improve and become cheaper over time. In 25 more years, who knows what new limits for observatory design, construction and capabilities will be.
You are correct this is not productive.
Not trying to get "under your skin",
just educate people reading this
what a big deal these tools are, or how
useless.
TMT is a big deal. ELT is a big deal.
James Web is a big deal.
This is two out of two you win.
Aloha.
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You are correct this is not productive.
Not trying to get "under your skin",
just educate people reading this
what a big deal these tools are, or how
useless.
TMT is a big deal. ELT is a big deal.
James Web is a big deal.
This is two out of two you win.
Aloha.
Glad one of us is keeping score. As long as it's 2-0, I'm good with it. :geekdanc:
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Just watched 6PM news. Estimates of crowd there is now 2000. Josh Green is definitely going to run for Gov after Ige's term is over. So obvious he positioning himself for that. Sad thing, he will probably get elected. Hopefully I will be living on the mainland by then.
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Just watched 6PM news. Estimates of crowd there is now 2000. Josh Green is definitely going to run for Gov after Ige's term is over. So obvious he positioning himself for that. Sad thing, he will probably get elected. Hopefully I will be living on the mainland by then.
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2019/07/22/safe-loved-lieutenant-governor-visits-mauna-kea-week-after-tmt-protests-begin/ (https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2019/07/22/safe-loved-lieutenant-governor-visits-mauna-kea-week-after-tmt-protests-begin/)
“I’m here to make sure people are OK,” Green said. “I’m not here for a political statement.”
“One project can’t be allowed to disrupt the fabric of our state’s ohana,” Green told Hawaii News Now. “So if there can’t be a brokered peace that prevents that, then the TMT would have to move on.”
So what statement is true Mr. Green?
With all the fuss about a telescope project let them leave and show the world how Hawaii is about "Aloha". Let's screw over ourselves and keep us in a flat 2 dimensional economy. We are a state of Ainokea, green bottles and govt. handouts.
Mr. Green lives in a self-righteous fantasy land of prescription housing :crazy:. It seems that every political statement he has made is backed up by his position as a medical doctor. Its a very honorable position indeed but a very narrow focused perception of life.
If anyone is going to confiscate guns this guy will do it as Governor. He won't give a shit about our 2A rights.
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https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2019/07/22/safe-loved-lieutenant-governor-visits-mauna-kea-week-after-tmt-protests-begin/ (https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2019/07/22/safe-loved-lieutenant-governor-visits-mauna-kea-week-after-tmt-protests-begin/)
If anyone is going to confiscate guns this guy will do it as Governor. He won't give a shit about our 2A rights.
We can go exercise our 1A rights like the TMT protesters. Block Washington Place driveway and have big rally in Waikiki like they did. Wear empty handgun holsters and use your rifle case to carry your signs and sign posts.
BTW, he did make the stupid statement that all weapons should be removed from the mountain. Ok, all you cops and sheriffs, hand them over, guns, batons, pepper spray, knives and tasers.
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Trump should come out in support of the protesters. That would throw Democrats into full insane meltdown mode. It would be hilarious.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: good one!
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We can go exercise our 1A rights like the TMT protesters. Block Washington Place driveway and have big rally in Waikiki like they did. Wear empty handgun holsters and use your rifle case to carry your signs and sign posts.
BTW, he did make the stupid statement that all weapons should be removed from the mountain. Ok, all you cops and sheriffs, hand them over, guns, batons, pepper spray, knives and tasers.
Fuck em. The mountain is my new place of sojourn. Just gotta carry pillow with me everywhere I go so I can just lay down and claim sojourn.
Ige dropped the ball by allowing them to block the road from day 1. New president is being set. And guaranns morons will vote for Green then complain later when he messes up our state just like Ige.
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Fuck em. The mountain is my new place of sojourn. Just gotta carry pillow with me everywhere I go so I can just lay down and claim sojourn.
Ige dropped the ball by allowing them to block the road from day 1. New president is being set. And guaranns morons will vote for Green then complain later when he messes up our state just like Ige.
Take Mana road just outside of Waimea or Kilohana check in station road.
4WD ONLY! Will get you at the base of Hale Pohako.
This is way past the police blockade.
Summit is easy from there.
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Take Mana road just outside of Waimea or Kilohana check in station road.
4WD ONLY! Will get you at the base of Hale Pohako.
This is way past the police blockade.
Summit is easy from there.
Eh, no give away BI secrets.
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Hilo Circuit Judge Greg Nakamura today denied a petition for a temporary restraining order to halt construction of the Thirty Meter Telescope
https://www.hawaiitribune-herald.com/2019/07/23/hawaii-news/honolulu-police-return-to-oahu/?HTH=4a1254cc52bed352f537f369b6f18ea7a3ea7c49
Gee, another court decision in favor of TMT building proceeding. Add that to the long list of other court and regulatory affirmations of TMT.
But what difference does that make? A mob of a few hundred superstitious racists can overrule the entire impotent Democrat socialist government, including law enforcement. Why even have bothered spending the last 10 years meeting all the "requirements" to build? Why not 10 years ago just ask a handful (maybe, maybe, one percent of the population of the state) of superstitious racists having a particular genetic profile if they would allow the project? Woulda saved 10 years and millions of dollars. The cowardly capitulating Democrats (Ige, Green, Lyin' Harry, Tulsi, Kahele, David, etc., etc., etc.) could have just said up front... we will obey the will of the racist minority no matter what the courts and all other legal entities decide... "Just tell us what to do and we'll bow down and kiss your feet, o holy wise ones."
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Eh, no give away BI secrets.
If they were BI people they'd already know this.
There is another way, I did not mention. Never tried it but I know where the start is.
Gets you to the 12,000 foot level.
Beauty of it all, is if you aren't BI you will get stuck
out in the middle of nowhere with some wild cattle,
pigs, or angry Hawaiian poachers.
Aloha.
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Hilo Circuit Judge Greg Nakamura today denied a petition for a temporary restraining order to halt construction of the Thirty Meter Telescope
https://www.hawaiitribune-herald.com/2019/07/23/hawaii-news/honolulu-police-return-to-oahu/?HTH=4a1254cc52bed352f537f369b6f18ea7a3ea7c49
Gee, another court decision in favor of TMT building proceeding. Add that to the long list of other court and regulatory affirmations of TMT.
But what difference does that make? A mob of a few hundred superstitious racists can overrule the entire impotent Democrat socialist government, including law enforcement. Why even have bothered spending the last 10 years meeting all the "requirements" to build? Why not 10 years ago just ask a handful (maybe, maybe, one percent of the population of the state) of superstitious racists having a particular genetic profile if they would allow the project? Woulda saved 10 years and millions of dollars. The cowardly capitulating Democrats (Ige, Green, Lyin' Harry, Tulsi, Kahele, David, etc., etc., etc.) could have just said up front... we will obey the will of the racist minority no matter what the courts and all other legal entities decide... "Just tell us what to do and we'll bow down and kiss your feet, o holy wise ones."
I think I said this earlier, but they have achieved one of their goals
to shut down the mountain.
Hawaii is a pretty sorry place as it is run run by a single party
for the party and by the party.
Please forgive me if I don't comply.
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How come they don't just clear the roads, but allow who ever wants to protest along the side of the road allowed?
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How come they don't just clear the roads, but allow who ever wants to protest along the side of the road allowed?
What if 1000 TMT supporters showed up and created a gauntlet style path for the construction vehicles, blocking the road-blockers from the roadway?
If the same tactic used by the protestors are used against them, they have no high ground in the debate.
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How come they don't just clear the roads, but allow who ever wants to protest along the side of the road allowed?
If by "they" you are referring to Ige, Lyin' Harry Kim, and police chief Ferreira: because they are chickenshit racist-sympathizers.
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A mob of a few hundred superstitious racists can overrule the entire impotent Democrat socialist government, including law enforcement. ... Why not 10 years ago just ask a handful (maybe, maybe, one percent of the population of the state) of superstitious racists having a particular genetic profile if they would allow the project? ...
How do you know the few hundred or so people you referenced, who are in opposition to TMT, are superstitious racists? Have you recently gone to Mauna Kea and talked to those people?
Are you not aware opposition to TMT is coming from people from all different socio-economic, educational, and professional backgrounds who are not racist?
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If by "they" you are referring to Ige, Lyin' Harry Kim, and police chief Ferreira: because they are chickenshit racist-sympathizers.
Those guys wouldn't do anything. It would be LE who would. And if given orders, they would "just do their job".
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How do you know the few hundred or so people you referenced, who are in opposition to TMT, are superstitious racists? Have you recently gone to Mauna Kea and talked to those people?
Are you not aware opposition to TMT is coming from people from all different socio-economic, educational, and professional backgrounds who are not racist?
Why would I have to "go to Mauna Kea and talk" to them to know what those people believe? Have you gone to Mauna Kea and talked to those people? Have you talked to all the people you claim oppose the TMT and are not racist? I didn't think so. But you still make statement about what they believe. I have the same capacity.
The criminals there breaking the law have made many public statements, on the record, unless you want to claim that those are all fake news and doctored videos. From many of their comments it's clear they assert a belief in supernatural entities and/or events for which there is absolutely no objective evidence at all. That's what I call superstition. That's their whole basis for their claim that that geological structure is "sacred" and therefore must not be defiled. They have no such claims about the "'aina" they lease for millions of dollars per year to Target, WalMart, Home Depot, Safeway, etc., so they apparently claim to have some ability to distinguish the sacred land from the profane land used for capitalistic profit. I asked the other day for someone to provide a detailed map of the whole island depicting exactly where the boundaries are between the sacred land and the land one inch on the other side of that boundary that is profane and may be used to profit from by leasing to non-hawaiian corporations. So far no one has provided such a map. If you have one, I'd like to see it. I'd also like to know who drew the boundaries, how they determined those were the correct boundaries, and if everyone else who claims to have supernatural experiences, including the ability to detect the sacred, all agree that those are the correct boundaries.
Anyone (likely at least some of the people up there don't fit this definition, but those that speak publicly on the subject certainly do) who claims they have a right or privilege based upon some particular genetic profile (aka "blood quantum") that exceeds the rights or privileges of people not having the same genetic profile, is, by definition racist. They're claiming their "race" entitles them to something more than people who are not of that "race". And that's exactly what those people are claiming. All the legal hoops have been successfully navigated by TMT. All the legal maneuvers by the superstitious racists have failed. Now they claim the superlegal right to break the law because of their genetic profile, making them above the law that would apply to anyone else. Anyone here really think that if a group of 2A open carry advocates blocked any public street because our right to carry is obviously violated by the state/counties of Hawaii that we'd still be sitting in the street 9 days later? We'd be removed, arrested, and possibly jailed within 10 minutes. I don't see how anyone could seriously claim that what is happening, allowing them to continue to violate the law, could be anything but preferential treatment based upon their claimed "race" and their claimed victimhood as such.
A poll (https://www.scribd.com/document/374711098/The-Hawaii-Poll-March-2018-TMT#download&from_embed) showed that, among voters, the total public favors the TMT by 77%, to 15% oppose, to 7% undecided. Among people who identified as Hawaiian it was 72% support, 23% oppose, 5% undecided. If you have a more recent poll, or one with a better methodology, please share it with us.
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How come they don't just clear the roads, but allow who ever wants to protest along the side of the road allowed?
Well, one reason would be what EEF
said, "Something about arresting old people doesn't go over well and time is probably going to be cheaper than paying lawsuits and having to fight more people when force gets used."
I don't believe that at all.
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Why would I have to "go to Mauna Kea and talk" to them to know what those people believe? Have you gone to Mauna Kea and talked to those people? Have you talked to all the people you claim oppose the TMT and are not racist? I didn't think so. But you still make statement about what they believe. I have the same capacity.
The criminals there breaking the law have made many public statements, on the record, unless you want to claim that those are all fake news and doctored videos. From many of their comments it's clear they assert a belief in supernatural entities and/or events for which there is absolutely no objective evidence at all. That's what I call superstition. That's their whole basis for their claim that that geological structure is "sacred" and therefore must not be defiled. They have no such claims about the "'aina" they lease for millions of dollars per year to Target, WalMart, Home Depot, Safeway, etc., so they apparently claim to have some ability to distinguish the sacred land from the profane land used for capitalistic profit. I asked the other day for someone to provide a detailed map of the whole island depicting exactly where the boundaries are between the sacred land and the land one inch on the other side of that boundary that is profane and may be used to profit from by leasing to non-hawaiian corporations. So far no one has provided such a map. If you have one, I'd like to see it. I'd also like to know who drew the boundaries, how they determined those were the correct boundaries, and if everyone else who claims to have supernatural experiences, including the ability to detect the sacred, all agree that those are the correct boundaries.
Anyone (likely at least some of the people up there don't fit this definition, but those that speak publicly on the subject certainly do) who claims they have a right or privilege based upon some particular genetic profile (aka "blood quantum") that exceeds the rights or privileges of people not having the same genetic profile, is, by definition racist. They're claiming their "race" entitles them to something more than people who are not of that "race". And that's exactly what those people are claiming. All the legal hoops have been successfully navigated by TMT. All the legal maneuvers by the superstitious racists have failed. Now they claim the superlegal right to break the law because of their genetic profile, making them above the law that would apply to anyone else. Anyone here really think that if a group of 2A open carry advocates blocked any public street because our right to carry is obviously violated by the state/counties of Hawaii that we'd still be sitting in the street 9 days later? We'd be removed, arrested, and possibly jailed within 10 minutes. I don't see how anyone could seriously claim that what is happening, allowing them to continue to violate the law, could be anything but preferential treatment based upon their claimed "race" and their claimed victimhood as such.
A poll (https://www.scribd.com/document/374711098/The-Hawaii-Poll-March-2018-TMT#download&from_embed) showed that, among voters, the total public favors the TMT by 77%, to 15% oppose, to 7% undecided. Among people who identified as Hawaiian it was 72% support, 23% oppose, 5% undecided. If you have a more recent poll, or one with a better methodology, please share it with us.
(https://res.cloudinary.com/teepublic/image/private/s--yv7HGXhf--/t_Preview/b_rgb:0f7b47,c_limit,f_jpg,h_630,q_90,w_630/v1521686106/production/designs/2512674_0.jpg)
mic drop.....
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How about ...
Officials said those arrested for firearms violations would be processed in one of two ways.
They would either be taken to the Mauna Loa Access Road, Kamehameha Hwy and written a ticket and released.
But if they choose :wacko:, they could also be physically arrested and taken to Hilo Beretania St for processing."
:thumbsup:
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Why would I have to "go to Mauna Kea and talk" to them to know what those people believe? Have you gone to Mauna Kea and talked to those people? Have you talked to all the people you claim oppose the TMT and are not racist? I didn't think so. But you still make statement about what they believe. I have the same capacity.
I live and work with a number of people who are protesting TMT. Most are not superstitious racists.
The criminals there breaking the law have made many public statements, on the record, unless you want to claim that those are all fake news and doctored videos. From many of their comments it's clear they assert a belief in supernatural entities and/or events for which there is absolutely no objective evidence at all. That's what I call superstition. That's their whole basis for their claim that that geological structure is "sacred" and therefore must not be defiled. They have no such claims about the "'aina" they lease for millions of dollars per year to Target, WalMart, Home Depot, Safeway, etc., so they apparently claim to have some ability to distinguish the sacred land from the profane land used for capitalistic profit. I asked the other day for someone to provide a detailed map of the whole island depicting exactly where the boundaries are between the sacred land and the land one inch on the other side of that boundary that is profane and may be used to profit from by leasing to non-hawaiian corporations. So far no one has provided such a map. If you have one, I'd like to see it. I'd also like to know who drew the boundaries, how they determined those were the correct boundaries, and if everyone else who claims to have supernatural experiences, including the ability to detect the sacred, all agree that those are the correct boundaries.
Anyone (likely at least some of the people up there don't fit this definition, but those that speak publicly on the subject certainly do) who claims they have a right or privilege based upon some particular genetic profile (aka "blood quantum") that exceeds the rights or privileges of people not having the same genetic profile, is, by definition racist. They're claiming their "race" entitles them to something more than people who are not of that "race". And that's exactly what those people are claiming. All the legal hoops have been successfully navigated by TMT. All the legal maneuvers by the superstitious racists have failed. Now they claim the superlegal right to break the law because of their genetic profile, making them above the law that would apply to anyone else. Anyone here really think that if a group of 2A open carry advocates blocked any public street because our right to carry is obviously violated by the state/counties of Hawaii that we'd still be sitting in the street 9 days later? We'd be removed, arrested, and possibly jailed within 10 minutes. I don't see how anyone could seriously claim that what is happening, allowing them to continue to violate the law, could be anything but preferential treatment based upon their claimed "race" and their claimed victimhood as such.
The people doing the talking on Mauna Kea are not 100% representative as to all of the reasons of why the protests to TMT are occurring. Also, the statements being shared with the population via the media are only what those who are doing the reporting want the population to hear.
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Also, the statements being shared with the population via the media are only what those who are doing the reporting want the population to hear.
just like the ICBM silos...
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I find it interesting that the far right is in agreement with the far left on this whole TMT thing.
I find it interesting that people here (2A advocates) are looking at polls on what the "voting public" agrees with. (wonder what said poll would say about legal gun owners in Hawaii?)
I find it interesting that people that agree that the Constitution of the United States that says that we all have a right to arms that "shall not be infringed", yet assert that peoples aught not protest because someone's belief is in a supernatural or sacred place, and has no right to refuse desecration of that place, just because they seem to be "superstitious" to them. Then boom that race card..... Is that not a little hypocritical??
Let me say I am not opposed to research and discovery, and not opposed to the TMT in itself, but in the big picture, there is no significant reason to fight the indigenous people of Hawaii over a stupid ass telescope. I say respect that. Who is anyone else to say otherwise?
This should be a perfect opportunity to effect change in this state's political climate, and push pro 2A candidates. The left has clusterfucked this state to the point real change is possible. But many are preoccupied with a telescope that will have very minimal economic or practical value for anyone on these islands.
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I live and work with a number of people who are protesting TMT. Most are not superstitious racists.
So that (not superstitious) means they do not believe or think that Mauna Kea, or some specific portion of it is "sacred", correct?.So they aren't arguing that TMT can't happen there because it violates some superstitious "sacred" claim. And that (not racist) means that they do not believe people of a certain genetic profile have any more right or privilege to determine what happens in a disputed "land use" issue, correct? There could be no argument at all that had anything to do with "hawaiian" or "japanese" or "eskimo" or "african", etc., as only a racist would claim race had any bearing whatsoever. Since the legal and regulatory issues have been adjudicated to the level of the Hawaii State Supreme Court, TWICE, and the TMT won the land use issue (which is clearly what this is) cases, what, do tell, is their objection based upon? What other land use issues do they also object to, since there are dozens of them being decided every day throughout the state? And what are their arguments in those cases?
The people doing the talking on Mauna Kea are not 100% representative as to all of the reasons of why the protests to TMT are occurring.
I never said they were. In fact I made the very allowance that not all the people there likely held the same views as the public speakers. As per my above comment, why don't you tell us what the non-superstitious non-racist objections are to the land use issues not covered in all prior litigation?
Also, the statements being shared with the population via the media are only what those who are doing the reporting want the population to hear.
That might be true. However, even if it is true it doesn't invalidate the content in any of those public statements that we DO hear, which are largely superstitious and/or racist in nature, to one degree or another. Unless you want to claim that either the public statements are either fabricated by the media or that those people are double agents planted to make the lawbreaking crowd appear as superstitious and racists when in fact they are not. So are you also claiming that the social media presence of the groups, wherein they make various superstitious and racists claims, are also "only what those who are [running social media sites] want the population to hear"?
Perhaps it would help us all if you could print a simple list of all the reasons people oppose the TMT that have nothing to do with any superstitious or racist doctrines or beliefs, but that solely address the previously lititgated land use issues.
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I find it interesting that the far right is in agreement with the far left on this whole TMT thing.
I find it interesting that people here (2A advocates) are looking at polls on what the "voting public" agrees with. (wonder what said poll would say about legal gun owners in Hawaii?)
I find it interesting that people that agree that the Constitution of the United States that says that we all have a right to arms that "shall not be infringed", yet assert that peoples aught not protest because someone's belief is in a supernatural or sacred place, and has no right to refuse desecration of that place, just because they seem to be "superstitious" to them. Then boom that race card..... Is that not a little hypocritical??
Let me say I am not opposed to research and discovery, and not opposed to the TMT in itself, but in the big picture, there is no significant reason to fight the indigenous people of Hawaii over a stupid ass telescope. I say respect that. Who is anyone else to say otherwise?
This should be a perfect opportunity to effect change in this state's political climate, and push pro 2A candidates. The left has clusterfucked this state to the point real change is possible. But many are preoccupied with a telescope that will have very minimal economic or practical value for anyone on these islands.
You try to grandstand on the Constitution, then say "indigenous people" as if that is a recognized group with special power and rights.
The indigenous people of Hawaii are NO DIFFERENT than any other resident. We are all CITIZENS of the state, and CITIZENS of the US. Nothing more, nothing less.
Unless, and until, there is a legal recognition of Hawaiian self-rule, then the answer to your question: "Who is anyone else to say otherwise?"
would be: "The people". That means ALL the people.
Protestors can protest, but blocking roads is not protesting. It's interfering with lawful use of public roads. PERIOD.
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its not about polls, it not about the legal process, its not about any one race or culture
its about that $50 million a year paycheck.
If they created a Telescope Authority that would dole out funds to certain organizations and have an appointed director with a salary commensurate with the project's costs, the protests would go away.
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You try to grandstand on the Constitution, then say "indigenous people" as if that is a recognized group with special power and rights.
The indigenous people of Hawaii are NO DIFFERENT than any other resident. We are all CITIZENS of the state, and CITIZENS of the US. Nothing more, nothing less.
Unless, and until, there is a legal recognition of Hawaiian self-rule, then the answer to your question: "Who is anyone else to say otherwise?"
would be: "The people". That means ALL the people.
Protestors can protest, but blocking roads is not protesting. It's interfering with lawful use of public roads. PERIOD.
You are right, they are citizens of this state and American, if they say they are or not. That means they have the right to peacefully protest. If they are not blocking the road, and not being violent, they are fully within their rights. People that were blocking or causing problems were arrested. Anyone else has a right to protest.
I am not "grandstanding" anything.
You all are being hypocrites, and not for a real purpose, other than to whine like the left does.
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its not about polls, it not about the legal process, its not about any one race or culture
its about that $50 million a year paycheck.
If they created a Telescope Authority that would dole out funds to certain organizations and have an appointed director with a salary commensurate with the project's costs, the protests would go away.
I've heard reports that moneys are already or would be doled out. Guess who gets the money? Track record of this State doesn't seem very promising.
My guess is they'll pay off the right people eventually.
Point is this opportunity is being wasted on fighting for a telescope, when the real goal is being ignored.
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You are right, they are citizens of this state and American, if they say they are or not. That means they have the right to peacefully protest. If they are not blocking the road, and not being violent, they are fully within their rights. People that were blocking or causing problems were arrested. Anyone else has a right to protest.
I am not "grandstanding" anything.
You all are being hypocrites, and not for a real purpose, other than to whine like the left does.
Actually, making a point that "there is no significant reason to fight the indigenous people of Hawaii", then saying the issue isn't "racist" is hypocritical, if not dishonest.
You can't fight for the Hawaiian people and discount racial discrimination in the same argument.
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Actually, making a point that "there is no significant reason to fight the indigenous people of Hawaii", then saying the issue isn't "racist" is hypocritical, if not dishonest.
You can't fight for the Hawaiian people and discount racial discrimination in the same argument.
You are the one interjecting any racial connotations in this discussion. Who said that everyone protesting is Hawaiian or of Hawaiian decent?
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You are the one interjecting any racial connotations in this discussion. Who said that everyone protesting is Hawaiian or of Hawaiian decent?
You used the phrase "indigenous people of Hawaii."
Explain how that isn't "Hawaiian or of Hawaiian decent".
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I find it interesting that the far right is in agreement with the far left on this whole TMT thing.
**** Do you have any specifics to support that claim? I've seen tweets from Bernie Sanders and Ellizabeth Warren supporting "hawaiians" breaking the law. What "far right" people or groups support the lawbreakers?
I find it interesting that people here (2A advocates) are looking at polls on what the "voting public" agrees with. (wonder what said poll would say about legal gun owners in Hawaii?)
**** Uh... there is no Constitutionally-protected right to build or prevent the building of a telescope. Way beyond apples and oranges. Or do you agree that if people need a license to drive a car they should be required to have a similar license to possess firearms? Anyone is free to protest against the unconstitutional infringing Hawaii "gun laws" in any way they want, at any time... however, if they break any currently existing laws, like blocking a public roadway, they will likely be removed and arrested. Why wouldn't those blocking a road for some other reason be treated likewise?
I find it interesting that people that agree that the Constitution of the United States that says that we all have a right to arms that "shall not be infringed", yet assert that peoples aught not protest because someone's belief is in a supernatural or sacred place, and has no right to refuse desecration of that place, just because they seem to be "superstitious" to them. Then boom that race card..... Is that not a little hypocritical??
**** Man, you are really twisting things. On purpose? Where did I ever say that "peoples aught [sic] not protest"? Never said it. Never implied it. Never thought it. Don't believe it. Anyone can protest anything at any time... however, if their actions in protesting violate existing laws, those people should be held accountable for their lawbreaking, and not given a pass because of their superstitions or racist beliefs (nor for any other reason: e.g. old, frail, diminished capacity, difficult childhood, etc.) that they, and apparently other think "justify" their lawbreaking to the point of not enforcing the law. "...aught not protest because someone's belief is in a supernatural or sacred place..." Same thing. Never said it, etc. They can protest for whatever "reasons" they have, or no reason at all. Go ahead. But if you break the law don't expect someone to not enforce the law because you believe that what you believe puts you above the law. How is it "hypocritical" to point out that people expect to be treated differently and according to different standards because they make a racial claim as part of the basis for their lawbreaking. Yeah, yeah, I know, "the people saying that don't represent everyone blah blah blah..." But many of the public speakers express that... they're "owed" a certain kind of elevated special treatment. They said it, not me. They're basing it on race. Basing differences in treatment upon race, well, that's racism.
Let me say I am not opposed to research and discovery, and not opposed to the TMT in itself, but in the big picture, there is no significant reason to fight the indigenous people of Hawaii over a stupid ass telescope. I say respect that. Who is anyone else to say otherwise?
**** "Who is anyone else to say otherwise?" Uh, every single person is entitled to both their opinion, just like you, and entitled to state their opinion publicly, just like you. You think that only certain people can have opinions on this issue, or valid opinions? Let me modify what you wrote just a little: "...there is no significant reason to fight the telescope over the stupid ass indigenous people of Hawaii. I say respect that." Just another opinion, using your words to frame it. See what I mean? It's really only a land use dispute, and should only be adjudicated on those grounds. It's certain people who claim that there are other reasons, ahem, that their views should prevail and all those arguments have failed, so they break the law with impunity due to the chickenshit nature of the Democrat socialists incompetently administering this place.
This should be a perfect opportunity to effect change in this state's political climate, and push pro 2A candidates. The left has clusterfucked this state to the point real change is possible. But many are preoccupied with a telescope that will have very minimal economic or practical value for anyone on these islands.
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THIS ^^^ right here is why our rights are going to be abolished.
Over a stupid fucken telescope. You are nit picking and not even looking at the gist of my comment... No big picture here... move along.
Feel like I'm arguing with a liberal..... ::)
Stay here and keep preching to the choir.
laters.
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If Bishop Estate would head the TMT project there would be no protests.
I can see more fruitful pro-Hawaiian protests in front of Korean owned shopping centers, foreign owned luxury apartments, the land destroying costly rail project.
But yeah, over a telescope. :thumbsup:
Wish we had that same level of passion, turnout and media coverage over Pro-2A issues.
If those protestors could see the relationship between a seemingly "oppressive" local govt and the right to self defense....
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“Despite prior public statements indicating observatory technicians would not be denied access to the telescopes, activists today contradicted their earlier position,” according to the statement. “Activists told observatory personnel that without a formal, public letter from the observatories — supporting activists’ demands of the state — access for critical technical maintenance is no longer supported.”
Yes, indeed, that's quite a "protest"... er, I mean, quite a "protection".
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Yes. Go look it up if you don't believe it has been dragging on that long. The government will not be able to out wait the protesters.
If you cannot out wait them and the road needs to be opened, what do you suggest if you cannot use force? You cannot reason with or convince them to let it get built.
In any case, this shows that the government is powerless to try and confiscate guns in America. So all the Democrats who want to repeal the 2A or outright take guns, lots of luck.
They haven't been up on the mountain protesting for 10 years. They filed suits in court which is the legal way to fight this type of thing so I wouldn't really consider that ongoing protest.
I don't accept the premise that you cannot reason or convince them. They are protestors but not fanatics. We aren't in another country with a hostile enemy, the cops and government officials there are in many cases family with the protestors. The situation requires tact, not force.
My personal suggestion would be to maintain that the new telescope will be built regardless of protests but as a measure of compromise a bill banning any future construction could be put through the legislature so the people can vote on it. There is almost always a way to reason with people.
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If they want to protest, fine. I support their right, however when they start blocking roads and harassing people etc, then I draw the line. Do we need TMT with Hubble and Keck at our disposal? Not qualified to speculate but seems to me maybe we don’t need the TMT. ???
I believe the Hubble is already past its predicted life expectancy.
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They haven't been up on the mountain protesting for 10 years. They filed suits in court which is the legal way to fight this type of thing so I wouldn't really consider that ongoing protest.
*** They didn't have any reason to protest on the mountain before construction began. Why block roads 6 years before the trucks start bringing in materials and workers?
I don't accept the premise that you cannot reason or convince them. They are protestors but not fanatics. We aren't in another country with a hostile enemy, the cops and government officials there are in many cases family with the protestors. The situation requires tact, not force.
*** So, you think you can convince someone that a sacred mountain being desecrated and harmed that they are wrong? You've never strongly believed in anything, have you?
My personal suggestion would be to maintain that the new telescope will be built regardless of protests but as a measure of compromise a bill banning any future construction could be put through the legislature so the people can vote on it. There is almost always a way to reason with people.
*** Really? How many times have I seen you post "we just have to agree to disagree?" That's not coming to an agreement. That's admitting there is going to be no agreement.
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*** They didn't have any reason to protest on the mountain before construction began. Why block roads 6 years before the trucks start bringing in materials and workers?
Thats what I was saying.
*** So, you think you can convince someone that a sacred mountain being desecrated and harmed that they are wrong? You've never strongly believed in anything, have you?
I don't like to give up before I try or make assumptions.
*** Really? How many times have I seen you post "we just have to agree to disagree?" That's not coming to an agreement. That's admitting there is going to be no agreement.
I never said anything about changing their minds, I said reason with people. The goal isn't to change the mind of the protestors, it is to get them off the road. Note my suggestion, it wouldn't change their beliefs but could be an acceptable compromise for them.
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I never said anything about changing their minds, I said reason with people. The goal isn't to change the mind of the protestors, it is to get them off the road. Note my suggestion, it wouldn't change their beliefs but could be an acceptable compromise for them.
You cannot reason with the unreasonable and they should never have been allowed on the road in the first place. The only acceptable “compromise “ for them would be that the TMT goes away. It doesn’t matter to me one way or the other if the TMT gets built or not. What bothers me is that a company that has spend all this time, huge amounts of money jumping through all the legal hoops, has gotten all the permits and granted permission by Hawaii's highest court, is being prevented from proceeding with their project by the ones that lost the court case and receiving no protection by LE or the government.
Like I said in the very beginning, this should have been nipped in the bud. Protesters should never have been allowed to stand on the road, much less so to erect several tents on the road. It is rapidly getting to the point where you will need 1000 or more LEOs to clear the road unless deadly force is used.
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"Common ground"? "A way forward"? "Peaceful resolution"?
Camera-hog Kanuha: "Either the TMT goes up or it doesn't. We're not willing to compromise on that. We've made that very clear."
Any questions?
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"Common ground"? "A way forward"? "Peaceful resolution"?
Camera-hog Kanuha: "Either the TMT goes up or it doesn't. We're not willing to compromise on that. We've made that very clear."
Any questions?
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That guy strikes me as a loudmouth punk troublemaker. Those old folk in the tent should line up and take turns slapping his head.
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That guy strikes me as a loudmouth punk troublemaker. Those old folk in the tent should line up and take turns slapping his head.
I totally agree with you; like I said, the people who are usually doing the talking to the media are not representative of all those in attendance.
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I don't think there can be a compromise. It will either be built or it wont and TMT will sue HI for the bill.
Even if they add in later a law that prevents future scopes from being built, we know that maintenance will have to be done and what if there is damage so bad that the entire scope needs to be replaced? The way our law makers write bills, I won't be surprised if there are many gray areas. And we will go thru this again 10-20 years later. Or even sooner if some guy has the bright idea of fire bombing the building.
On a side note, I heard that Green visits the outer islands and helps with the homeless by medical treatments. Can anyone confirm?
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I don't think there can be a compromise. It will either be built or it wont and TMT will sue HI for the bill.
On a side note, I heard that Green visits the outer islands and helps with the homeless by medical treatments. Can anyone confirm?
Rail contractors get paid for delays, so precedent has been established in that case.
Maybe Dr Green can tell me what causes my ass to twitch when he opens his mouth.
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Maybe Dr Green can tell me what causes my ass to twitch when he opens his mouth.
Response: "It's because I'm coming for your guns"
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Maybe Dr Green can tell me what causes my ass to twitch when he opens his mouth.
because he's a fucking socialist
he hides behind the MD thing, but it's all a front
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Quote from: Heavies on July 23, 2019, 05:07:09 PM
Let me say I am not opposed to research and discovery, and not opposed to the TMT in itself, but in the big picture, there is no significant reason to fight the indigenous people of Hawaii over a stupid ass telescope. I say respect that. Who is anyone else to say otherwise?
The indigenous people of Hawaii are NO DIFFERENT than any other resident. We are all CITIZENS of the state, and CITIZENS of the US. Nothing more, nothing less.
You used the phrase "indigenous people of Hawaii."
Explain how that isn't "Hawaiian or of Hawaiian decent".
Sorry boy's, there is NOTHING indigenous in Hawaii.
EVERYTHING came here. :geekdanc:
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Sorry boy's, there is NOTHING indigenous in Hawaii.
EVERYTHING came here. :geekdanc:
I think "indigenous", in this or any context re humans (versus plants and animals), means "the most recent invasive wave/force to have taken over and controlled a particular geographical area, often by committing genocide on the previous inhabitants, prior to contact with european civilization".
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I don't think there can be a compromise. It will either be built or it wont and TMT will sue HI for the bill.
Even if they add in later a law that prevents future scopes from being built, we know that maintenance will have to be done and what if there is damage so bad that the entire scope needs to be replaced? The way our law makers write bills, I won't be surprised if there are many gray areas. And we will go thru this again 10-20 years later. Or even sooner if some guy has the bright idea of fire bombing the building.
On a side note, I heard that Green visits the outer islands and helps with the homeless by medical treatments. Can anyone confirm?
I can confirm he hates 2A, and probably any other Right and liberty when it suits him.
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I totally agree with you; like I said, the people who are usually doing the talking to the media are not representative of all those in attendance.
From my experience in community outreach for DOT projects, this is very much what I’ve seen.
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because he's a fucking socialist
he hides behind the MD thing, but it's all a front
Well he is now the government and if he's providing free treatment to homeless, then yes he is practicing socialism (government providing care).
Someone hating on the MD title. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Well Ige went up Maunakea to talk to the protesters who welcomed him with hugs. So much love and aloha bs. He named or appointed Harry Kim as the lead man for negotiating with the illegal squatters. Very smooth Gov, good job. Nice way to rid yourself of responsibility. Gutless asshole.
I don’t think the TMT will get built. Warning to all big businesses who may think of opening something here. No come. No waste your time.
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What cop is gonna go move this guy out of the way?
(https://i.imgur.com/2bg65X7.png)
Actor Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson, center, greets community leader Pua Case as opposition leader Kaho'okahi Kanuha watches at far left during a visit to the protest site blocking the construction of the TMT telescope on Wednesday, July 24, 2019, at the base of Mauna Kea on Hawaii Island. (Jamm Aquino/Honolulu Star-Advertiser via AP)
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The TMT opponents should've voted for Tupola who is very publicly opposed to TMT. Looks like most of the opponents voted for Ige or didn't vote at all
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Gee, I wonder what sort of "resolution" we'll be seeing from Lyin' Harry Kim?
“We have made the Hawaiians feel like strangers in their own land,” Kim said.
Here, plain as day, the Democrat socialists reveal the crux of the issue in their warped deluded and delusional belief that this is not a state of the United States of America, but some far flung outlier that belongs to some group of a particular genetic code who not only own the place, but have special status requiring them to be treated as above the laws that apply to all other citizens.
This place isn't any more "their own land" than it is every other single legal citizen's land. One person, one vote... but no, not here... not when obviously racist policy is implemented by the Democrat socialists.
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https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2019/07/25/telescope-employees-find-future-uncertain-protest-blocks-access-mauna-kea/ (https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2019/07/25/telescope-employees-find-future-uncertain-protest-blocks-access-mauna-kea/)
killing jobs
“With the emotions going on on the summit, it makes it difficult … to even function just in the community itself," said Ivan Look, operation manager of the Canada-France-Hawaii Telescope.
"Even neighbors, we’re all kind of thinking different things, so it’s uncomfortable I guess.”
Look, a Kamehameha Schools graduate, is concerned that if protesters stop TMT they might try to get rid of the other observatories, too.
“This is our livelihood. This is work,” he said. “I went to school to be an engineer. And it was hard for me to find work right away because Hawaii we don’t really have engineering, exciting things going on.”
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“We have made the Hawaiians feel like strangers in their own land,” Kim said.
Here, plain as day, the Democrat socialists reveal the crux of the issue in their warped deluded and delusional belief that this is not a state of the United States of America, but some far flung outlier that belongs to some group of a particular genetic code who not only own the place, but have special status requiring them to be treated as above the laws that apply to all other citizens.
This place isn't any more "their own land" than it is every other single legal citizen's land. One person, one vote... but no, not here... not when obviously racist policy is implemented by the Democrat socialists.
Mayor Kim is well aware of the legal status of Hawaii in relation to the USA.
Let's not open that can of worms and stay on topic with TMT.
:stopjack:
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Mayor Kim is well aware of the legal status of Hawaii in relation to the USA.
Let's not open that can of worms and stay on topic with TMT.
The "legal status" or the "purported legal status"?
The quoted comment is totally "on topic with TMT".That's Lyin' Harry's prefatory comment laying the groundwork and framework upon which he will be having "discussions" with the criminals currently blocking a public road.
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You cannot reason with the unreasonable and they should never have been allowed on the road in the first place. The only acceptable “compromise “ for them would be that the TMT goes away. It doesn’t matter to me one way or the other if the TMT gets built or not. What bothers me is that a company that has spend all this time, huge amounts of money jumping through all the legal hoops, has gotten all the permits and granted permission by Hawaii's highest court, is being prevented from proceeding with their project by the ones that lost the court case and receiving no protection by LE or the government.
Like I said in the very beginning, this should have been nipped in the bud. Protesters should never have been allowed to stand on the road, much less so to erect several tents on the road. It is rapidly getting to the point where you will need 1000 or more LEOs to clear the road unless deadly force is used.
I disagree. No one knows for sure how the protestors will react or how the thing will play out. Waiting comes with risks but so does "nipping it in the bud". It is a bit of a gamble either way but I think they made the safer bet at this point.
We will see how it resolves and if I am wrong then you can tell me "I told you so" :thumbsup:
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Response: "It's because I'm coming for your guns"
Lets hope we get the kind of showing the TMT protestors have if they try to take our guns
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I think "indigenous", in this or any context re humans (versus plants and animals), means "the most recent invasive wave/force to have taken over and controlled a particular geographical area, often by committing genocide on the previous inhabitants, prior to contact with european civilization".
I often point out that well before the Americans took over Hawaii Kamehameha shed a lot of blood taking the islands from others and ask what about someone who wants to grieve that unjust takeover? A couple have said that was different because he was Hawaiian taking over other Hawaiians. Kinda points out a certain inherent racist nature to their complaint.
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Lets hope we get the kind of showing the TMT protestors have if they try to take our guns
what I am more interested in is what you are going to do when your command gives you the order to take away guns...
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The "legal status" or the "purported legal status"?
There is no dispute that the USA has no legal authority over Hawaii and that Hawaii is illegally being occupied by the USA.
Like I said, let's not go any more.
:stopjack:
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what I am more interested in is what you are going to do when your command gives you the order to take away guns...
My wife is never taking away my guns!
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what I am more interested in is what you are going to do when your command gives you the order to take away guns...
What command are you talking about?
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What command are you talking about?
https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/44b0b164-7702-468b-88bb-6e1a1f52e367#B1wIrgyPzr.copy
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What command are you talking about?
He believes that I am secretly an undercover police officer sent to spy on 2Ahawaii members so he is asking whether I will obey a hypothetical to confiscate guns.
He likes conspiracies, especially the dumb ones and he keeps pushing it with little comments like that one.
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He believes that I am secretly an undercover police officer sent to spy on 2Ahawaii members so he is asking whether I will obey a hypothetical to confiscate guns.
He likes conspiracies, especially the dumb ones and he keeps pushing it with little comments like that one.
I do not believe you are an undercover police officer sent to spy on 2Ahawaii members
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This morninh HNN showed event tents have replaced many of the pop up tents. More pottys added and about 1000 people now there daily and swelling to over 2000 on weekends. At this point I don't see how TMT can get built.
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There is no dispute that the USA has no legal authority over Hawaii and that Hawaii is illegally being occupied by the USA.
You wrote that with a straight face?
No sane person could read it with a straight face.
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This morninh HNN showed event tents have replaced many of the pop up tents. More pottys added and about 1000 people now there daily and swelling to over 2000 on weekends. At this point I don't see how TMT can get built.
I think it's possible if the state/courts issue an extension on the required time to have started construction (now September 25, 2019) for at least a year and then just let those people sit there all winter (they may have modular housing by then with fireplaces built right in the middle of the road) until the number of criminals declines to a point where law enforcement could more safely deal with the numbers, BUT given the Democrat idiots running the whole show, at all levels, I'm guessing you would very well be right... no TMT.
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what I am more interested in is what you are going to do when your command gives you the order to take away guns...
1 of 2 things will happen if command gives the order:
1) Followed to the T because "just following orders"
2) Those who do disagree will not say anything because they don't want to get fired. So they will just wait outside, instead of going inside the home/office to confiscate the guns. That way they can say "I didn't confiscate anything, the other guy did".
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1 of 2 things will happen if command gives the order:
1) Followed to the T because "just following orders"
2) Those who do disagree will not say anything because they don't want to get fired. So they will just wait outside, instead of going inside the home/office to confiscate the guns. That way they can say "I didn't confiscate anything, the other guy did".
Guess the police will just have to do their job and remove the guns. And follow orders.
Because the gun owner, at that point is now a criminal, refusing to follow the law.
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This morninh HNN showed event tents have replaced many of the pop up tents. More pottys added and about 1000 people now there daily and swelling to over 2000 on weekends. At this point I don't see how TMT can get built.
That's what they said about the Dakota Pipeline protests with 3000-4000 protestors onsite. It ran from early 2016 to February 2017.
In the end, the protestors lost.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dakota_Access_Pipeline_protests
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That's what they said about the Dakota Pipeline protests with 3000-4000 protestors onsite. It ran from early 2016 to February 2017.
In the end, the protestors lost.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dakota_Access_Pipeline_protests
Because Trump signed the XO. I would love to see him sign an XO for Mauna Kea, just to watch libs heads explode and crazy Mazy to make a statement.
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Because Trump signed the XO. I would love to see him sign an XO for Mauna Kea, just to watch libs heads explode and crazy Mazy to make a statement.
That is exactly right. I seriously doubt if any of our spineless, gutless political leaders would have the nerve to make such an order.
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That is exactly right. I seriously doubt if any of our spineless, gutless political leaders would have the nerve to make such an order.
If the site is part of Volcanoes National Park, Trump could send in guard troops and end this. That would save face for the local swamp critters afraid of the public backlash.
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If the site is part of Volcanoes National Park, Trump could send in guard troops and end this. That would save face for the local swamp critters afraid of the public backlash.
He might do it if they played ball, but you know, Ige did sign on to the Paris Acord to spite Trump.
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Guess the police will just have to do their job and remove the guns. And follow orders.
Because the gun owner, at that point is now a criminal, refusing to follow the law.
Gee, if only the cops would "do their job" whenever they saw "a criminal, refusing to follow the law"... things would be way different on Saddle Road. Some animals are more equal than others.
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If the site is part of Volcanoes National Park, Trump could send in guard troops and end this. That would save face for the local swamp critters afraid of the public backlash.
The Mauna Kea Summit area is conservation land held in trust by the State of Hawaii. The courts have ruled that astronomy is a legal use of conservation land. The state, not the Hawaiian people have the legal right to determine who uses the land. That was a court ruling.It is not part of VNP.
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What cop is gonna go move this guy out of the way?
(https://i.imgur.com/2bg65X7.png)
Actor Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson, center, greets community leader Pua Case as opposition leader Kaho'okahi Kanuha watches at far left during a visit to the protest site blocking the construction of the TMT telescope on Wednesday, July 24, 2019, at the base of Mauna Kea on Hawaii Island. (Jamm Aquino/Honolulu Star-Advertiser via AP)
I know someone who could take out the rock while drinking a beer at the same time! :shaka:
https://youtu.be/4usfclDUlwQ
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I know someone who could take out the rock while drinking a beer at the same time! :shaka:
https://youtu.be/4usfclDUlwQ
Bigger they come the harder they fall! U.S.S. New Jersey flattened a small mountain during Tet soooooooooo........ :geekdanc:
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1 of 2 things will happen if command gives the order:
1) Followed to the T because "just following orders"
2) Those who do disagree will not say anything because they don't want to get fired. So they will just wait outside, instead of going inside the home/office to confiscate the guns. That way they can say "I didn't confiscate anything, the other guy did".
There are many more possibilities. Open defiances, allowing the person to have their firearms seized so as to go through a legal means of fighting it, etc.
A lot of constitutional case law is set because someone did something unconstitutional. In some ways had the government never violated the constitution we may not have the same established rights today.
The constitution isn't exactly some document that give clear answers to every issue. Our understanding of the constitution has evolved over time with free speech being one of the most interesting examples. In the cases of law enforcement a lot of the time the officer doesn't clearly know something is constitutional or not until it makes its way up to a supreme court.
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There are many more possibilities. Open defiances, allowing the person to have their firearms seized so as to go through a legal means of fighting it, etc.
A lot of constitutional case law is set because someone did something unconstitutional. In some ways had the government never violated the constitution we may not have the same established rights today.
The constitution isn't exactly some document that give clear answers to every issue. Our understanding of the constitution has evolved over time with free speech being one of the most interesting examples. In the cases of law enforcement a lot of the time the officer doesn't clearly know something is constitutional or not until it makes its way up to a supreme court.
The bill of rights is pretty clear on the 2nd amendment, as well as the 1st.
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There are many more possibilities. Open defiances, allowing the person to have their firearms seized so as to go through a legal means of fighting it, etc.
A lot of constitutional case law is set because someone did something unconstitutional. In some ways had the government never violated the constitution we may not have the same established rights today.
The constitution isn't exactly some document that give clear answers to every issue. Our understanding of the constitution has evolved over time with free speech being one of the most interesting examples. In the cases of law enforcement a lot of the time the officer doesn't clearly know something is constitutional or not until it makes its way up to a supreme court.
In this case, red flag laws are clear. So clear that for the 1st time many LE agencies across the nation said they will not enforce it.
I guess they are only not clear to those agencies and LEOs who will blindly follow orders.
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
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The bill of rights is pretty clear on the 2nd amendment, as well as the 1st.
Ideally yes, but historically no.
President Lincoln had people arrested for things they said against the war when by today's standard such a thing would be clearly interpreted as unconstitutional. There are many other cases that show how people and courts understood the 1st amendment has changed over time.
https://www.infoplease.com/history/us/changing-views-of-free-speech-in-the-us
My main point is that rights are not so clear nor as obvious as we would like to think. Highly educated scholars end up disagreeing on what is and isn't protected by certain amendments so I think a fair amount of leeway should be given to your average citizen or even police officer when trying to decide whether they think something is constitutional or not.
There have been cases involving bans against hand billing in public places. Legislators passed the laws, police cited/arrested for it, and courts found them guilty all before the SCOTUS ruled it was an unconstitutional law. So we had three levels of governments all of which somehow missed the 1st amendment issue.
Certain things are clearly understood to be protected under the constitution and any good cop would immediately recognize the issue. But many are in a gray area where the answer is not so obvious and the cop won't be able to predict exactly how everything will go if the case went all the way to the SCOTUS. I think we should keep that in mind when looking at their actions in whether they choose to follow an order to enforce something like a red flag law or something else.
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https://www.kitv.com/story/40845923/state-lawmaker-tmt-supporter-clash-over-racism-colonialism (https://www.kitv.com/story/40845923/state-lawmaker-tmt-supporter-clash-over-racism-colonialism)
Ing is heard off camera asking the man, "So you're saying Mauna Kea is not sacred?" Rostel responds, "No, it's a rock. What's sacred is the pursuit of knowledge."
Ing told KITV4 this was a racist comment, and he wrote these words on Twitter that correspond with that video post: "Our movement is about stopping the TMT, and moving beyond this sort of colonial, white supremacist thinking."
and he throws down the racist card...for what?
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https://www.kitv.com/story/40845923/state-lawmaker-tmt-supporter-clash-over-racism-colonialism (https://www.kitv.com/story/40845923/state-lawmaker-tmt-supporter-clash-over-racism-colonialism)
Ing is heard off camera asking the man, "So you're saying Mauna Kea is not sacred?" Rostel responds, "No, it's a rock. What's sacred is the pursuit of knowledge."
Ing told KITV4 this was a racist comment, and he wrote these words on Twitter that correspond with that video post: "Our movement is about stopping the TMT, and moving beyond this sort of colonial, white supremacist thinking."
and he throws down the racist card...for what?
Something is truly off with that guy...
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This whole protest thing stopped being about the telescope a long time ago. It has turned into an all-out "Hawaiian vs haole" war.
The ironic part is that our King Kalakaua would have definitely been a TMT supporter.
Circa 1880, King Kalakaua met Thomas Edison and commisioned the installation of electrical lighting at Iolani Palace.
That's really amazing "forward-thinking" when you consider that the White House did not have electrical lighting until 4 years later.
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It has turned into an all-out "Hawaiian vs haole" war.
A further irony is that I suspect it's a rather small percentage of those supporting "sovereignty" and even claiming to be "hawaiian" that would actually turn out to be eligible for citizenship under the purported resurrected "kingdom" citizen requirement that one have PROOF of being a direct descendant of someone who was a "kingdom" CITIZEN prior to 1893. According to one writer on the subject, if the "kingdom" is restored (the "sacred" "mauna" is merely step one of many ("blockades") to follow) anyone not proving direct lineage will have their property seized and be deported from the "kingdom". Sure, that's gonna happen. Many (most?) of these people are delusional.
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This is civil disobedience and the State tolerates it. If it was any other group of people the State would have squashed it by now.
I think they should try and stop "progress" at any of the various military bases in the name of stopping the oppressive, imperialistic American military. That would give a greater impact to the movement.
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A further irony is that I suspect it's a rather small percentage of those supporting "sovereignty" and even claiming to be "hawaiian" that would actually turn out to be eligible for citizenship under the purported resurrected "kingdom" citizen requirement that one have PROOF of being a direct descendant of someone who was a "kingdom" CITIZEN prior to 1893. According to one writer on the subject, if the "kingdom" is restored (the "sacred" "mauna" is merely step one of many ("blockades") to follow) anyone not proving direct lineage will have their property seized and be deported from the "kingdom". Sure, that's gonna happen. Many (most?) of these people are delusional.
What Hawaiian said that property held by all non-Hawaiian nationals would be seized and people deported should the Kingdom government of Hawaii be restored? Either you are talking to a very mistaken Hawaiian or are making things up.
Hawaiian is not a race or ethnicity, but a nationality; hence, all nationals that can trace their lineage to the Kingdom as well as the short-lived Republic of Hawaii have rights as being Hawaiian nationals; including, by the way, the descendants of Thurston and all the other American-born Hawaiian insurgents that overthrew Queen Liliuokalani! All other people whose descendants arrived and took residence in Hawaii after the illegal annexation of Hawaii 1898, would not be considered nationals, but rather visitors who could elect permanent residency or apply for citizenship, as most nations offer today.
Only lands currently occupied by the US federal and state government would revert back to the exclusive control of the Hawaiian government.
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What Hawaiian said that property held by all non-Hawaiian nationals would be seized and people deported should the Kingdom government of Hawaii be restored? Either you are talking to a very mistaken Hawaiian or are making things up.
Hawaiian is not a race or ethnicity, but a nationality; hence, all nationals that can trace their lineage to the Kingdom as well as the short-lived Republic of Hawaii have rights as being Hawaiian nationals; including, by the way, the descendants of Thurston and all the other American-born Hawaiian insurgents that overthrew Queen Liliuokalani! All other people whose descendants arrived and took residence in Hawaii after the illegal annexation of Hawaii 1898, would not be considered nationals, but rather visitors who could elect permanent residency or apply for citizenship, as most nations offer today.
Only lands currently occupied by the US federal and state government would revert back to the exclusive control of the Hawaiian government.
By your definition, there is no way to "naturalize" non-Hawaiians. That's a great prescription for ensuring the "nation" of Hawaii eventually gets bred out of existence. Native American tribes faced that very prospect. Only intermarrying with non-Natives (reduces the off-chances of inbreeding), greater longevity due to improved healthcare, and changes in what qualifies a person as "Native-American" reversed the downward spiral into oblivion.
Living on an island doesn't insulate Hawaiians from the realities of mixing races and some of those mixed-race people having children born here. The "nation" of Hawaii needs to rethink their future if they intend to have a future at all. As long as the state is under US control, race-based discrimination will become more and more illegal, which cuts into many long-standing state, trust and school rules, ceded lands (Mauna Kea) which were under a now nonexistent monarchy included.
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https://www.kitv.com/story/40845923/state-lawmaker-tmt-supporter-clash-over-racism-colonialism (https://www.kitv.com/story/40845923/state-lawmaker-tmt-supporter-clash-over-racism-colonialism)
Ing is heard off camera asking the man, "So you're saying Mauna Kea is not sacred?" Rostel responds, "No, it's a rock. What's sacred is the pursuit of knowledge."
Ing told KITV4 this was a racist comment, and he wrote these words on Twitter that correspond with that video post: "Our movement is about stopping the TMT, and moving beyond this sort of colonial, white supremacist thinking."
and he throws down the racist card...for what?
Anybody read his FB page?
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190729/c3fcf44aeb0d26f8485b89f5158eee13.jpg)
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What Hawaiian said that property held by all non-Hawaiian nationals would be seized and people deported should the Kingdom government of Hawaii be restored? Either you are talking to a very mistaken Hawaiian or are making things up.
Such irony! For this person was just like you, i.e. claimed to know it all! I'm sure he'd challenge you and assert that you "are very mistaken". I don't care if you believe me or not, it's a real person who claims some degree of "hawaiianess". "When I asked him who was going to come and seize my property and deport me he cited some international law claiming that the U.S. military would be obligated to do the seizures and deportations. I'm not making it up. He knows everything.
Hawaiian is not a race or ethnicity, but a nationality; hence, all nationals that can trace their lineage to the Kingdom as well as the short-lived Republic of Hawaii have rights as being Hawaiian nationals; including, by the way, the descendants of Thurston and all the other American-born Hawaiian insurgents that overthrew Queen Liliuokalani! All other people whose descendants arrived and took residence in Hawaii after the illegal annexation of Hawaii 1898, would not be considered nationals, but rather visitors who could elect permanent residency or apply for citizenship, as most nations offer today.
So you're acknowledging that all those signs we see and claims made all over the place (such as by Ing above) about "hawaiians" having been and being subject victims of "racism" are false, because they aren't a "race". Good to know. Thanks. What kind of efforts have you made to correct the liars or those who are "very mistaken" about their "race" claims?
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By your definition, there is no way to "naturalize" non-Hawaiians. That's a great prescription for ensuring the "nation" of Hawaii eventually gets bred out of existence. Native American tribes faced that very prospect. Only intermarrying with non-Natives (reduces the off-chances of inbreeding), greater longevity due to improved healthcare, and changes in what qualifies a person as "Native-American" reversed the downward spiral into oblivion.
Well, China has done very well without "naturalizing" non-Chinese.
Living on an island doesn't insulate Hawaiians from the realities of mixing races and some of those mixed-race people having children born here. The "nation" of Hawaii needs to rethink their future if they intend to have a future at all. As long as the state is under US control, race-based discrimination will become more and more illegal, which cuts into many long-standing state, trust and school rules, ceded lands (Mauna Kea) which were under a now nonexistent monarchy included.
That is why it is in the best interest of Hawaiians to end the illegal occupation of Hawaii by the US.
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Such irony! For this person was just like you, i.e. claimed to know it all! I'm sure he'd challenge you and assert that you "are very mistaken". I don't care if you believe me or not, it's a real person who claims some degree of "hawaiianess". "When I asked him who was going to come and seize my property and deport me he cited some international law claiming that the U.S. military would be obligated to do the seizures and deportations. I'm not making it up. He knows everything.
Does this Hawaiian have any legal, historical, or academic background? That could explain the depth of that person's understanding or misunderstanding on the legal aspects concerning the ending of an illegal occupation of a sovereign nation based on international law.
So you're acknowledging that all those signs we see and claims made all over the place (such as by Ing above) about "hawaiians" having been and being subject victims of "racism" are false, because they aren't a "race". Good to know. Thanks. What kind of efforts have you made to correct the liars or those who are "very mistaken" about their "race" claims?
Hawaiians are a nationality, not a race. However, aboriginal Hawaiians living in their occupied nation has historically suffered gross discrimination, as currently defined by the US Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964.
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Though I was born and raised here I don't identify as Hawaiian. There is a difference. I am of American nationality and transracial.
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Though I was born and raised here I don't identify as Hawaiian. There is a difference. I am of American nationality and transracial.
I too don't ID as Hawaiian. But if a chick with a dick can ID as female, then I guess my Japanese/Okinawan ass can ID as Hawaiian also. Homestead application, here I come.
My friend is Hawaiian, but on his birth cert it says Native American only. His dad was super drunk when his mom was giving birth. And when the nurse asked what he is, he said Native American. He's the only child of 3 who didn't go to Kamehameha. I guess in the 80's they just took your word for it.
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Such irony! For this person was just like you, i.e. claimed to know it all! I'm sure he'd challenge you and assert that you "are very mistaken". I don't care if you believe me or not, it's a real person who claims some degree of "hawaiianess". "When I asked him who was going to come and seize my property and deport me he cited some international law claiming that the U.S. military would be obligated to do the seizures and deportations. I'm not making it up. He knows everything.
Does this Hawaiian have any legal, historical, or academic background? That could explain the depth of that person's understanding or misunderstanding on the legal aspects concerning the ending of an illegal occupation of a sovereign nation based on international law.
So you're acknowledging that all those signs we see and claims made all over the place (such as by Ing above) about "hawaiians" having been and being subject victims of "racism" are false, because they aren't a "race". Good to know. Thanks. What kind of efforts have you made to correct the liars or those who are "very mistaken" about their "race" claims?
Hawaiians are a nationality, not a race. However, aboriginal Hawaiians living in their occupied nation has historically suffered gross discrimination, as currently defined by the US Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964.
A person can't get into Kamehameha Schools based on Hawaiian nationality.
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A person can't get into Kamehameha Schools based on Hawaiian nationality.
These people are total hypocrites. They will use any word (race, ethnicity, nation, sovereign, discrimination, etc.) to mean anything at any time as a cudgel in order to force their point. Another time they will use the same word to mean something completely different, or claim a concept NOW only applies one way or another, despite having said otherwise at another time. They and their use of language are totally "flexible", or as Lewis Carroll put it:
‘When I use a word,’ Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful tone, ‘it means just what I choose it to mean, neither more nor less.’
Watch now as they tie themselves into linguistic hypocrisyknots as they try to explain the qualifying "blood quantum" standard as some kind of twisted white man imposed misunderstood momentarily necessary evil until the "nationalist" agenda can conveniently overtake their racist agenda when it suits their purposes.
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When I was younger, I thought ethnic background and nationality were the same. I learned the diff between the 2 when I asked this 1 guy what his nationality was. And he said American.
This was the same time I learned ashita (Japanese for tomorrow) was pronounced ah-shhhhhh-ta and not ah-she-ta.
But it took longer to know that Jesus was pronounces hey-sue-s and not like Jesus Christ. The worst part was I was calling this guy Jesus (Christ) for a few years and he never corrected me.
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stuff that didn't get quoted...
China? Are you for real?
Chinese is a race. There are 56 ethnic groups who identify as Chinese.
How many more differences between China and the "Nation" of Hawaii do you need to see how unrelated the two are?
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Chinese people are the various individuals or ethnic groups associated with China,[1] usually through
ancestry, ethnicity, nationality, citizenship or other affiliation.
Han Chinese, the largest ethnic group in China, at about 92% of the population,[2] are often referred to
as "Chinese" or "ethnic Chinese" in English,[3][4] however there are dozens of other related and unrelated
ethnic groups in China.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_people
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China? Are you for real?
Chinese is a race. There are 56 ethnic groups who identify as Chinese.
How many more differences between China and the "Nation" of Hawaii do you need to see how unrelated the two are?
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_people
Or you can call them Chineses
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Or you can call them Chineses
When the "Hawaiian Nation" (however that gets defined) claims 1 billion people, THEN Kuleana can talk about Hawaii and China in the same context.
Until then, it's pineapples & mandarine oranges.
By the way, China DOES ALLOW NATURALIZATION of foreigners. Try getting your facts straight, Kuleana.
https://www.thoughtco.com/chinese-citizenship-explained-688071
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9p5ZfDg3zdo
1:04
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Or you can call them Chineses
you waycist..
by the way, I think the term "Chinatown" is racist. Can we call it downtown?
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you waycist..
by the way, I think the term "Chinatown" is racist. Can we call it downtown?
But can you still say "I'm taking you down. Downtown to Chinatown".
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Funny thing I noticed, in Vegas, most of the billboard signs for ambulance chaser atty's are Jews. But once you get into Chinatown, it's all Chineses.
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(https://i.pinimg.com/236x/3b/86/89/3b8689f7241f6fb900e0659d5e71e690--nerd-heroines.jpg)
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RAY_SIST!!
(https://i.imgur.com/M11gNVj.jpg)
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RAY_SIST!!
(https://i.imgur.com/M11gNVj.jpg)
Tha Sacred Chinaman's (NoWayciss) Hat
Great place to put an AirBnB there.
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Though I was born and raised here I don't identify as Hawaiian. There is a difference. I am of American nationality and transracial.
As I said, only those people who can trace their aboriginal lineage to the Hawaiian islands or provide legal documents to show their ancestors were recognized legal citizens of the Kingdom of Hawaii or the short-lived Republic of Hawaii, can claim to be Hawaiian nationals today. Anyone arriving and settling in Hawaii after the illegal annexation of Hawaii by the US in 1898 do not have the right to call themselves Hawaiian or nationals of Hawaii.
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As I said, only those people who can trace their aboriginal lineage to the Hawaiian islands or provide legal documents to show their ancestors were recognized legal citizens of the Kingdom of Hawaii or the short-lived Republic of Hawaii, can claim to be Hawaiian nationals today. Anyone arriving and settling in Hawaii after the illegal annexation of Hawaii by the US in 1898 do not have the right to call themselves Hawaiian or nationals of Hawaii.
but I still can't get into Kamehameha...
although I can get kamaaina discount :shaka: :thumbsup:
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Hawaii was illegally overthrow but that's just real life. Since the prehistoric rise of.humans it's been survival of the fittest. Man vs man, village vs village, tribe vs tribe, nation vs nation. Every race of people has been conquered multiple times by insiders and outsiders. That's just how history is and people evolve each time and advance to where we are now.
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Hawaii was illegally overthrow but that's just real life. Since the prehistoric rise of.humans it's been survival of the fittest. Man vs man, village vs village, tribe vs tribe, nation vs nation. Every race of people has been conquered multiple times by insiders and outsiders. That's just how history is and people evolve each time and advance to where we are now.
Real life?
I think its just a matter of perception.
Lion kills and eats a gazelle.
Was that fair? Was that legal? Shall we have a court of kangaroos to determine that?
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This shit is getting hilarious! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Hawaii was illegally overthrow but that's just real life. Since the prehistoric rise of.humans it's been survival of the fittest. Man vs man, village vs village, tribe vs tribe, nation vs nation. Every race of people has been conquered multiple times by insiders and outsiders. That's just how history is and people evolve each time and advance to where we are now.
Just like the same reason Iraq was not absorbed into the US after its invasion by the US in 2003 and made the 51st state, it is the same argument why Hawaii is not an official part of the US. THERE IS NO TREATY OF ANNEXATION BETWEEN HAWAII AND THE US. This is why it is legally accurate to describe America's presence in Hawaii today, as an illegal occupation.
There was no way in hell the people of Iraq would sign a treaty of annexation to become part of America. Similarly, the reason the US Government continually attempts to get Hawaiians to accent to being a nation within the nation as recent in the US Department of Interior hearings a few years ago was a recent way to address their illegal occupation of Hawaii.
The US federal govenrment knows they are in the wrong.
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Just like the same reason Iraq was not absorbed into the US after its invasion by the US in 2003 and made the 51st state, it is the same argument why Hawaii is not an official part of the US. THERE IS NO TREATY OF ANNEXATION BETWEEN HAWAII AND THE US. This is why it is legally accurate to describe America's presence in Hawaii today, as an illegal occupation.
There was no way in hell the people of Iraq would sign a treaty of annexation to become part of America. Similarly, the reason the US Government continually attempts to get Hawaiians to accent to being a nation within the nation as recent in the US Department of Interior hearings a few years ago was a recent way to address their illegal occupation of Hawaii.
The US federal govenrment knows they are in the wrong.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Fl5SbA-jzoc
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Just like the same reason Iraq was not absorbed into the US after its invasion by the US in 2003 and made the 51st state, it is the same argument why Hawaii is not an official part of the US. THERE IS NO TREATY OF ANNEXATION BETWEEN HAWAII AND THE US. This is why it is legally accurate to describe America's presence in Hawaii today, as an illegal occupation.
There was no way in hell the people of Iraq would sign a treaty of annexation to become part of America. Similarly, the reason the US Government continually attempts to get Hawaiians to accent to being a nation within the nation as recent in the US Department of Interior hearings a few years ago was a recent way to address their illegal occupation of Hawaii.
The US federal govenrment knows they are in the wrong.
By that standard what takeover is ever legal?
Kamehameha's takeover of all the islands was illegal
Americas take over of Texas was illegal
The take over of Hong Kong was illegal
etc etc etc
Yes it was illegal but it happened and is done. No one left to arrest or sue. If we are going to track back hundreds of years to every takeover in history we wouldn't have any nations in existence.
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I too don't ID as Hawaiian. But if a chick with a dick can ID as female, then I guess my Japanese/Okinawan ass can ID as Hawaiian also. Homestead application, here I come.
My friend is Hawaiian, but on his birth cert it says Native American only. His dad was super drunk when his mom was giving birth. And when the nurse asked what he is, he said Native American. He's the only child of 3 who didn't go to Kamehameha. I guess in the 80's they just took your word for it.
My thoughts are that if you were born and raised here then you are Hawaiian just like if you were born and raised in California you are Californian.
I don't say Native Hawaiian or Kanaka Maoli because that clearly denotes a certain racial ethnicity. But go to the mainland and tell someone you from Hawaii and they will consider you Hawaiian whether you asian or white.
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Something is truly off with that guy...
What a racist jerk off. He has no concept of the merits of a position and instead clearly judges the position by only who holds it.
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What a racist jerk off. He has no concept of the merits of a position and instead clearly judges the position by only who holds it.
you are a racist
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By that standard what takeover is ever legal?
Kamehameha's takeover of all the islands was illegal
Americas take over of Texas was illegal
The take over of Hong Kong was illegal
etc etc etc
Yes it was illegal but it happened and is done. No one left to arrest or sue. If we are going to track back hundreds of years to every takeover in history we wouldn't have any nations in existence.
Obviously, you are not a US Constitutionalist or aware of what it states. The US Constitution has rules governing the acquisition of foreign recognized territories.
From the original 13 colonies till the present, the US has followed its Constitution in its acquisition of foreign territories. For most of its territorial expansion, it has either signed treaties of annexation like in the case of the Louisiana Purchase with France or in the territories once controlled by Mexico in the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo. Only in the cases of Hawaii and, I believe, Texas that the US has taken territory from recognized sovereign states that violates its Constitution. As for lands once roamed by the Native American Indians, those tribal nations had no recognized legal territorial boundaries; hence, could not themselves identify geographically where their territory was. Consequently, those tribal peoples could not counterargue the taking of lands by the US they once roamed.
I said earlier; because the US has no treaty of annexation with Hawaii, its presence is an illegal occupation.
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Fl5SbA-jzoc
Apparently you have not seen the number of the Hawaiian national flags flown in distress recently around on all islands and in areas settled by Hawaiians on the continental US.
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you are a racist
you know how I know you're a racist?
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Obviously, you are not a US Constitutionalist or aware of what it states. The US Constitution has rules governing the acquisition of foreign recognized territories.
From the original 13 colonies till the present, the US has followed its Constitution in its acquisition of foreign territories. For most of its territorial expansion, it has either signed treaties of annexation like in the case of the Louisiana Purchase with France or in the territories once controlled by Mexico in the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo. Only in the cases of Hawaii and, I believe, Texas that the US has taken territory from recognized sovereign states that violates its Constitution. As for lands once roamed by the Native American Indians, those tribal nations had no recognized legal territorial boundaries; hence, could not themselves identify geographically where their territory was. Consequently, those tribal peoples could not counterargue the taking of lands by the US they once roamed.
I said earlier; because the US has no treaty of annexation with Hawaii, its presence is an illegal occupation.
The US did have treaties with many tribes, treaties they later broke and moved native americans to other locations. Some of the treaties actually say that Native Americans are supposed to own chunks of land that are currently large cities.
I absolutely maintain that the takeover was illegal and unjust when it happened but be realistic. Its not like its something we can really undo. Thats why the argument about it being illegal is a moot point. We can say it was an illegal overthrow and that anything stemming from that is not legitimate but for all intents and purposes we are part of the United States. We can't replay the Super Bowl because a bad violation call made early in the season.
If Hawaii wants to secede then fine, bring it up for a vote and fight for it, but acting as if the illegal takeover invalidates everything is a pipe dream that isn't going to get us anywhere.
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The US did have treaties with many tribes, treaties they later broke and moved native americans to other locations. Some of the treaties actually say that Native Americans are supposed to own chunks of land that are currently large cities.
You still don't understand.
Those Indian tribes never themselves established their own borders even when the US were making treaties with them. I doubt any of those Indian tribes had maps of the territories they roamed. Hawaii was an internationally recognized sovereign state. Hence, the US is obliged to follow international law as well as its own US Constitutional law if it desired to acquire Hawaii as one of its territories. The US has not followed its own Constitutional law in its take over of Hawaii.
THERE IS NO STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS WHEN IT COMES TO VIOLAIONS OF THE US CONSTITUTION!
I absolutely maintain that the takeover was illegal and unjust when it happened but be realistic. Its not like its something we can really undo. Thats why the argument about it being illegal is a moot point. We can say it was an illegal overthrow and that anything stemming from that is not legitimate but for all intents and purposes we are part of the United States. We can't replay the Super Bowl because a bad violation call made early in the season.
If Hawaii wants to secede then fine, bring it up for a vote and fight for it, but acting as if the illegal takeover invalidates everything is a pipe dream that isn't going to get us anywhere.
Once again, you are using the wrong legal terminology. If the US is illegally occupying a foreign territory, there is no voting or secession, but deoccupation that needs to take place.
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This shit is getting hilarious! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Same people making the same arguments about "Meh Illegal Annexation!!" Thread after thread, they have to vent and pretend anything will change just because "No Treaty."
The Myth of Hawaii’s Illegal Annexation
Some trusted authorities make a persistent case that the U.S. annexation of Hawaii had no
legal basis. This writer calls that narrative counterfactual.
The argument that there was no annexation treaty misses the math. Hawaii’s government, which
controlled the territory and was recognized by the same states that recognized the Kingdom of
Hawaii, agreed to the terms of the treaty. Similarly, the Senate voted by a two-thirds majority to
annex Hawaii under the same terms that Hawaii agreed to be annexed. Those are the only conditions
for a valid treaty: an agreement between the United States and a foreign state that the Senate ratifies
by a two-thirds vote.
https://www.civilbeat.org/2015/07/the-myth-of-hawaiis-illegal-annexation/
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"I doubt any of those Indian tribes had maps of the territories they roamed."
that's racist
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"I doubt any of those Indian tribes had maps of the territories they roamed."
that's racist
Likewise it is racist to point out that the various humans from different parts of "polynesia" that ended up in "hawaii" had no written language as well.
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Kim recaps TMT meeting, reiterates opposition to use of force
https://www.hawaiitribune-herald.com/2019/07/29/hawaii-news/kim-recaps-tmt-meeting-reiterates-opposition-to-use-of-force/?HTH=34a3351709de9bf75882029b8ce41547d53ee2f4
"Kim also reiterated his absolute opposition to the use of force to clear Maunakea Access Road: “I don’t even want to go there mentally. Because if I do, that means we’ve failed.”"
No, you've failed. Already. You and Ige and Ferreira have violated your oaths of office to uphold the law. You think that just because the criminals up there claim victim status that they are above the law? Yeah, you do, and thus you ought to resign since you are enabling racist policy... treating a select group differently than everyone else based upon their race. All three you are a disgrace. You've all already failed (starting day one after 10 minutes of criminal acts). The only "success" would be to open the public road by any means necessary and you "don't even want to mentally go there". SMH. What a joke!
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at least Harry Kim wanted to be in the CPT's Chair
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/9a/Garrett_Wang_as_Harry_Kim.jpg]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/9a/Garrett_Wang_as_Harry_Kim.jpg)
but the Big Island Harry Kim...
is a waycist.
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Ben Cayetano stated publicly what I said at the beginning. "This should have been nipped in the bud." The longer it goes on, the more emboldened these lawbreakers become.
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seen on the news this morning, the protesters are the ones directing traffic at the intersection
wearing the reflective vests, waving stop signs, looks official
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seen on the news this morning, the protesters are the ones directing traffic at the intersection
wearing the reflective vests, waving stop signs, looks official
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Apparently you have not seen the number of the Hawaiian national flags flown in distress recently around on all islands and in areas settled by Hawaiians on the continental US.
I have but as I stated, who gives a shit.... :D
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seen on the news this morning, the protesters are the ones directing traffic at the intersection
wearing the reflective vests, waving stop signs, looks official
That's been happening since the first couple of days after the government installed the concrete barricades, which is why people have raised the question of government (aka taxpayers) liability should there be an accident that could in any way be linked to the government allowing "civilians" to engage in what is normally law enforcement duties. I believe it is all part and parcel of the complete capitulation of the Democrat government to the racists who claim victimhood, and therefore special status to violate the laws with impunity. They (Ige, Lyin' Harry, Ferreira, et al.) couldn't care less if the taxpayers get hooked for millions more dollars in a liability lawsuit.
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Saw a video on the news the other day, a truck with State plates asking the protesters permission to drive pass their barricade. Ridiculous.
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Apparently you have not seen the number of the Hawaiian national flags flown in distress recently around on all islands and in areas settled by Hawaiians on the continental US.
I thought it was a truck cruise
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Like I said before, Ige and everyone dropped the ball. As soon as they blocked a public road, they should have been arrested and keep arresting who ever blocks it. It now sets precedent for any future protest. Now can block king street, the state capitol, etc...
The only way this will end is either 1) TMT goes else where or 2) More force is used to allow the trucks to pass freely
Same thing like how the DOE allowed protest during school hours on school grounds with DOE employees helping. I want to see a KKK protest and it gets denied. Then sue DOE for 1a violation because they allowed a prior protest.
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Random thoughts....
Don't these people have jobs to go to?
And if they don't have jobs, why protest against something that would create jobs?
Who is this angry loudmouth punk always on camera?
Kind of reminds me of an ISIS terrorist getting ready to chop the heads off some captured soldiers.
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Random thoughts....
Don't these people have jobs to go to?
And if they don't have jobs, why protest against something that would create jobs?
Who is this angry loudmouth punk always on camera?
Kind of reminds me of an ISIS terrorist getting ready to chop the heads off some captured soldiers.
I think the old timers are retired. Not sure how the young guy is paying his bills (probably via donations of $$$). Which I don't think Soro's or like people are involved. They could care less.
I don't think the telescope would create that much more jobs in the long run. Just temp until the build is done, so it's not a main focus point for TMT.
There was an article that said due to the 16 day blocking of the road, the science studies are 1 year delayed now. Maybe this blockade caused us to miss a UFO and us trying to contact them. Cause we know how it works out for a more advanced party to come in contact with a less advanced party (Native Americans, Hawaiians, etc...)
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I think the old timers are retired. Not sure how the young guy is paying his bills (probably via donations of $$$). Which I don't think Soro's or like people are involved. They could care less.
I don't think the telescope would create that much more jobs in the long run. Just temp until the build is done, so it's not a main focus point for TMT.
There was an article that said due to the 16 day blocking of the road, the science studies are 1 year delayed now. Maybe this blockade caused us to miss a UFO and us trying to contact them. Cause we know how it works out for a more advanced party to come in contact with a less advanced party (Native Americans, Hawaiians, etc...)
"There was an article that said due to the 16 day blocking of the road, the science studies are 1 year delayed now".
More than one telescope is involved with an observation, usually there are several observatories with different instruments,
located around the world, looking at the same thing at the same time or nearly so.
The astronomers then wonder off, crunch data and publish the results.
If the time frame isn't close, the opportunity for that observation is lost.
As to the job count. Locally there is more than you'd think. I think the more important
part is the Bucks coming into the local economy from outside the economy.
"Cause we know how it works out for a more advanced party to come in contact with a less advanced party "
I really don't need a history lesson of the entire history of mankind. What is done is done and we can't go
back. Can't handle it, I can't help you. Survivors assimilate. Slaves don't. Read up on the history of all mankind.
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Who is this angry loudmouth punk always on camera?
the one that wears the Mahiole, or Ali'i feathered helmet (I had to google what it is called bc i'm not a Hawaiian historian)
is he Ali'i? or a self appointed chief?
just kind of weird looking, a guy wears t-shirt and jeans with a Mahiole on his head
lately I see him without the Mahiole
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the one that wears the Mahiole, or Ali'i feathered helmet (I had to google what it is called bc i'm not a Hawaiian historian)
is he Ali'i? or a self appointed chief?
just kind of weird looking, a guy wears t-shirt and jeans with a Mahiole on his head
lately I see him without the Mahiole
I've heard that guy is not Ali'i, and that if he where wearing that back in the day, he would have been beheaded....
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Gee, who coulda guessed that the governor wimping out even more would have had this result with the criminals? Way to go moron.
Protesters celebrate governor’s decision to withdraw emergency proclamation for Mauna Kea
The governor on Tuesday withdrew an emergency proclamation for Mauna Kea, and announced the state had given the Thirty Meter Telescope an additional two years to start construction under an existing permit.
He said the state of emergency ― which drew widespread criticism from protesters and legal experts ― was lifted because there are “no immediate plans to move heavy equipment up the mountain.”
“We continue to seek and find a peaceful solution to move this project forward," Gov David Ige said, at a news conference. “For the safety of all involved, we do believe we want to deescalate things.”
Meanwhile, protesters said in a statement Tuesday afternoon that the governor’s decision to withdraw the emergency declaration “reaffirms our resolve.”
“Governor Ige has admitted that he underestimated our strength, unity, and broad public support,” the statement said. “Our numbers continue to grow and his ability to oppose his own people is increasingly becoming less and less justifiable. Ige’s rescinding of the emergency proclamation illustrates how he can no longer claim that we are threatening public safety. We are the public.”
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THERE IS NO STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS WHEN IT COMES TO VIOLAIONS OF THE US CONSTITUTION!
You are absolutely right (I assume). So lets arrest all those involved in the overthrow. And lets sue anyone who was alive when it happened and benefited.
Once again, you are using the wrong legal terminology. If the US is illegally occupying a foreign territory, there is no voting or secession, but deoccupation that needs to take place.
I simply don't think it a very realistic option. There are numerous logistical challenges including but not limited to:
Who gets citizenship?
Will their be a monarchy restored?
If so, who gets claim the throne out of the multiple people alive today who can trace lineage today?
Do we kick out the US military? If so will we be able to make our own military sufficient to protect ourselves from the likes of China?
What if other islands want to be independent?
You think the USA will simply let us go because we point out it was an illegal overthrow?
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You are absolutely right (I assume). So lets arrest all those involved in the overthrow. And lets sue anyone who was alive when it happened and benefited.
I simply don't think it a very realistic option. There are numerous logistical challenges including but not limited to:
Who gets citizenship?
Will their be a monarchy restored?
If so, who gets claim the throne out of the multiple people alive today who can trace lineage today?
Do we kick out the US military? If so will we be able to make our own military sufficient to protect ourselves from the likes of China?
What if other islands want to be independent?
You think the USA will simply let us go because we point out it was an illegal overthrow?
If the US and her people still believe and follow its Constitution, then yes, deoccupation will happen.
However, as with many of this forum, as evidenced by their emotionally led responses on this issue, do not believe or, like the democrats and liberals they despise, pick and choose when to follow the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Hence, deoccupation of Hawaii by the US will be very costly, indeed.
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Hope the hurricane blows all the protesters away.
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I've heard that guy is not Ali'i, and that if he where wearing that back in the day, he would have been beheaded....
I think that's the problem with the "movement" - everybody claims to be Ali'i but lack the vision true leaders have.
The freedoms this country affords them is fantastic isn't it?
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Hope the hurricane blows all the protesters away.
you waycist
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For those interested in another set of data besides that presented here by the resident know-it-all liar and obfuscator:
http://www.angelfire.com/hi2/hawaiiansovereignty/
There are links to 422 articles about the issue and claims of "sovereignty", "nation", "kingdom", etc.
At the bottom of the page are some links to basic introductory material, which the resident know-it-all will no doubt deem the mistaken erroneous notions of people who are sworn enemies of the Constitution and thus traitors to the U.S.A. Yeah, right.
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more celebs joining in the circus..
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2019/07/31/bruno-mars-takes-social-media-support-protest-against-tmt-project/ (https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2019/07/31/bruno-mars-takes-social-media-support-protest-against-tmt-project/)
and the hypocrisy
leonardodicaprio
Verified
#Regram #RG @ashlukadraws: WE ARE MAUNA KEA.
Standing in solidarity with protesters on Mauna Kea, protecting the Sacred ‘āina from scientific imperialism. It breaks my heart to see indigenous people and land continue to be dismissed by the state of Hawaii and its wealthy developers.
related topic
https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/google-summit-celebrities-climate-change (https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/google-summit-celebrities-climate-change)
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And the State and LEOs there allowed the protesters to put up a barricade on the dirt road that went around the tents. Spineless, gutless, useless. Waste of taxpayer $$. They may as well go home and leave the protesters in charge. They already gotta ask for their permission to go pass the kupuna tents.
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And the State and LEOs there allowed the protesters to put up a barricade on the dirt road that went around the tents. Spineless, gutless, useless. Waste of taxpayer $$. They may as well go home and leave the protesters in charge. They already gotta ask for their permission to go pass the kupuna tents.
This is the environment the Dems created. Criticizing law enforcement. Emotional based reasoning.
Spain is probably laughing at us now.
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There must be H U G E advantages to putting TMT on Mauna Kea... otherwise TMT would have said fuck off a long long time ago and headed to another site not controlled by hysterical superstitious racists playing the victim card.
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so where are the 75%ers that wanted the telescope?
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There must be H U G E advantages to putting TMT on Mauna Kea... otherwise TMT would have said fuck off a long long time ago and headed to another site not controlled by hysterical superstitious racists playing the victim card.
I know most ignore what I write.
But there is a HUGE advantage.
Why do you think the entire world
tolerates the BS from our very small
population of noisy "Hawaiian" culture
practitioners?
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I know most ignore what I write.
But there is a HUGE advantage.
Why do you think the entire world
tolerates the BS from our very small
population of noisy "Hawaiian" culture
practitioners?
because Bruno Mars...
https://www.kitv.com/story/40861658/bruno-mars-says-he-stands-with-kiai-opposing-tmt-construction (https://www.kitv.com/story/40861658/bruno-mars-says-he-stands-with-kiai-opposing-tmt-construction)
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so where are the 75%ers that wanted the telescope?
They are afraid of the
very small population of
noisy "Hawaiian" culture
practitioners.
Keep in mind most people
in Hawaii are Democrats and by
definition have serious personal
problems with being aggressive
with doing what is right. Democrats
only follow Party policy.
In the case of TMT the Democrats
won't take a stand about laws
they have passed.
.
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because Bruno Mars...
https://www.kitv.com/story/40861658/bruno-mars-says-he-stands-with-kiai-opposing-tmt-construction (https://www.kitv.com/story/40861658/bruno-mars-says-he-stands-with-kiai-opposing-tmt-construction)
Who is Bruno Mars?
I'm more of a Ramstein or Metallica sort of guy.
Du haust mich.
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Who is Bruno Mars?
I'm more of a Ramstein or Metallica sort of guy.
Du haust mich.
he was Lil Elvis.
Before there was Lil Wayne, Lil Yachty, Lil Pump, Lil Xan, Lil Uzi Vert
(https://media1.popsugar-assets.com/files/thumbor/vucHpiYeFUifAfigonPvh0sexcI/fit-in/1200x630/filters:format_auto-!!-:strip_icc-!!-:fill-!white!-/2017/03/20/917/n/1922398/2189f33a58d04319b9cbc4.49555007_edit_img_facebook_post_image_file_16360412_1490040078.jpg)
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he was Lil Elvis.
Before there was Lil Wayne, Lil Yachty, Lil Pump, Lil Xan, Lil Uzi Vert
(https://media1.popsugar-assets.com/files/thumbor/vucHpiYeFUifAfigonPvh0sexcI/fit-in/1200x630/filters:format_auto-!!-:strip_icc-!!-:fill-!white!-/2017/03/20/917/n/1922398/2189f33a58d04319b9cbc4.49555007_edit_img_facebook_post_image_file_16360412_1490040078.jpg)
Now just Lil’ Shit..... >:D
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Spain is probably laughing at us now.
Well you gotta admit Hawaii has a lot to laugh at. One party government, highest home prices in the nation, TMT, rail, Gov Ige, Brian Schatz, Kealohas, and the stupidity of Mazie Hirono to name a few.
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so where are the 75%ers that wanted the telescope?
At home, at work, and probably hesitant to step forward.
They had a rally with about 150 people at the capital last week. I read the comments on instagram and facebook of people who were against the TMT. There was so much hate and racism and implied violence against supporters.
I got no problem supporting it on facebook, I posted my support for all to see but I have a feeling if I went in person people would look at my skin color and say its cause of my race.
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If the US and her people still believe and follow its Constitution, then yes, deoccupation will happen.
However, as with many of this forum, as evidenced by their emotionally led responses on this issue, do not believe or, like the democrats and liberals they despise, pick and choose when to follow the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Hence, deoccupation of Hawaii by the US will be very costly, indeed.
I agree with you on the idealistic side but on the realistic side it just isn't very realistic or practical.
If you are that serious, what are the solutions to the problems I posed?
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I agree with you on the idealistic side but on the realistic side it just isn't very realistic or practical.
If you are that serious, what are the solutions to the problems I posed?
The solution is exactly what the prescribed remedy is: deoccupation. The following are but some of the things that would happen after the US flag is finally lowered.
Just as the US transferred the political authority of Iraq to its people ending their illegal occupation there, the same needs to happen for Hawaii. In the beginning phases, the federal government would cease all funding to the islands. This would help the US budget tremendously. All of the federal military and other land controlled would transfer over to the authority of reinstated Hawaiian government, as did both US bases in the Philippines did, after the fall of the US supported dictator Ferdinand Marcos in 1985. All of its branches of government would cease its operations and return to the continental US. All federal taxation and tariffs would also end, freeing Hawaii to become more business friendly. As for the so-called Hawaii state government, it would revert back to the reinstated national government that it took over after the illegal annexation in 1898. All state taxes would become national taxes. All services currently run by the so-called Hawaii state government would continue, until which time the newly elected body politic would decide whether to continue, improve, or end them entirely.
As I said, this is but some the things that one could expect happen once deoccupation takes place.
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All of the federal military and other land controlled would transfer over to the authority of reinstated Hawaiian government, as did both US bases in the Philippines did, after the fall of the US supported dictator Ferdinand Marcos in 1985. All of its branches of government would cease its operations and return to the continental US.
How would military bases be turned over to the Hawaiian gov’t? Do you even realize the magnitude of what the US military has in Hawaii?
Understand that you feel strongly about this on principle, but do you realistically see this as any more than a pipe dream?
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I simply don't think it a very realistic option. There are numerous logistical challenges including but not limited to:
Who gets citizenship?
Citizenship would initially be offered to any living descendant of a Hawaiian national who can trace their lineage prior to the illegal annexation by the US in 1898. All other residents who resided in Hawaii after 1898 would be considered unofficial resident aliens that could elect to become permanent resident aliens once such process is enacted by the new body politic.
Will their be a monarchy restored?
This is actually where many Hawaiian historical and legal scholars are still discussing. Some believe the monarchy needs to be restored, while others believe it should be replaced by a republic.
If so, who gets claim the throne out of the multiple people alive today who can trace lineage today?
See above.
Do we kick out the US military? If so will we be able to make our own military sufficient to protect ourselves from the likes of China?
With deoccupation, all federal organizations would cease its operations in the islands and return to the US. As for possible invasion from China; China has not invaded any country for over the last 100 years. If there is any country that a nation should fear being invaded from, is the US, who has invaded more sovereign nations in the last 30 years than Russia, China, Iran, and North Korea COMBINED!
What if other islands want to be independent?
One needs to double check the last legal constitution Hawaii had prior to the illegal annexation of Hawaii by the US in 1898 to see if there were such provisions.
You think the USA will simply let us go because we point out it was an illegal overthrow?
Politically it would be hard for the any US administration to administer the correct remedy to its Constitutionally illegal occupation of Hawaii, but as long as both aboriginal and non-aboriginal Hawaiian nationals galvanize, as is currently being done in the protests against TMT on Mauna Kea, yes there will always be hope.
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How would military bases be turned over to the Hawaiian gov’t? Do you even realize the magnitude of what the US military has in Hawaii?
Understand that you feel strongly about this on principle, but do you realistically see this as any more than a pipe dream?
If you recall, the pentagon wanted to shut down a number of military bases in Hawaii due to the incredibly high costs of their maintenance. It was only from the king of pork, Senator Daniel Inouye, and now his successor Senator Brian Schatz who are constantly looking for funding to keep many of those expensive assets in-place. I would argue the money spent on the US military in Hawaii would be better spent by President Trump for Americans on building the border wall separating the US and Mexico!
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How would military bases be turned over to the Hawaiian gov’t? Do you even realize the magnitude of what the US military has in Hawaii?
Understand that you feel strongly about this on principle, but do you realistically see this as any more than a pipe dream?
The nuclear missile silos need to be at the top of the list.
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If you recall, the pentagon wanted to shut down a number of military bases in Hawaii due to the incredibly high costs of their maintenance. It was only from the king of pork, Senator Daniel Inouye, and now his successor Senator Brian Schatz who are constantly looking for funding to keep many of those expensive assets in-place. I would argue the money spent on the US military in Hawaii would be better spent by President Trump for Americans on building the border wall separating the US and Mexico!
Well, buckle up because more pork is on it’s way.
The nuclear missile silos need to be at the top of the list.
You went there ;D
And yes, I bet that’d be on top of the list for that fine instrument of defense policy.
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I would argue the money spent on the US military in Hawaii would be better spent by President Trump for Americans on building the border wall separating the US and Mexico!
racist!
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as long as both aboriginal and non-aboriginal Hawaiian nationals galvanize, as is currently being done in the protests against TMT on Mauna Kea, yes there will always be hope.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMRrNY0pxfM
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China wouldn't have to invade, once 70% percent of the
state's nation's income vanishes China will gladly step in to "help". Unfortunately for the new nation of Hawaii, China has a "no f#@ks given" attitude in regards to the current politically correct and entitlement mindset that has allowed this situation to get to its current point. Im at the point where i say f$@k it. Dont haul the tanks to port drive'em on the fed interstate as a nice gift to the newborn nation.Destroy all fed infastructure on the way out. :popcorn:
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China wouldn't have to invade, once 70% percent of the state's nation's income vanishes China will gladly step in to "help". Unfortunately for the new nation of Hawaii, China has a "no f#@ks given" attitude in regards to the current politically correct and entitlement mindset that has allowed this situation to get to its current point. Im at the point where i say f$@k it. Dont haul the tanks to port drive'em on the fed interstate as a nice gift to the newborn nation.Destroy all fed infastructure on the way out. :popcorn:
You make it sound like Hawaii would never economically recover, if the federal government funding would cease. Very far from the truth.
Tourism and real estate would not be drastically affected, year round agriculture exports would boom, and the overall business climate would vastly improve creating a better atmosphere for start-ups without US federal laws and tariffs. The hated Jones Act would be gone forever!
IMUA!
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And which sovereignty group will be the rightful leaders of the nation? I can think of at least 5 groups off the top of my head, all laying claim.
Plus all the haole still here with rifles who may not agree.
I hope this doesn't lead to a civil war, it wouldn't look pretty.
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Tents going be taken down and most people will vacate the site due to impending storms. Now would be the time for LEOs to secure the area. I am guessing they won't and will allow the illegal occupation to resume.
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and dreams of turning this into a marijuana, narco state.... :rofl:
fascinating that people here know more about running/developing a country than about firearms..especially when it comes to SBRs :-X
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You make it sound like Hawaii would never economically recover, if the federal government funding would cease. Very far from the truth.
Tourism and real estate would not be drastically affected, year round agriculture exports would boom, and the overall business climate would vastly improve creating a better atmosphere for start-ups without US federal laws and tariffs. The hated Jones Act would be gone forever!
IMUA!
No fed law, would also mean the illegal state laws since we were part of the US are also void? SBR's, supressors, mortors here we come. :rofl:
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You make it sound like Hawaii would never economically recover, if the federal government funding would cease. Very far from the truth.
Tourism and real estate would not be drastically affected, year round agriculture exports would boom, and the overall business climate would vastly improve creating a better atmosphere for start-ups without US federal laws and tariffs. The hated Jones Act would be gone forever!
IMUA!
Is your vision just one day everything would switch from US Govt controlled to Hawaiian Nation controlled? And everything stay the same?
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No fed law, would also mean the illegal state laws since we were part of the US are also void?
Absolutely. All the so-called state laws enacted after 1898 would be subject to void.
SBR's, supressors, mortors here we come. :rofl:
Better believe it! This is something we Hawaiian national gun enthusiasts are definately looking forward to.
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currently on this land - the State of Hawaii, United States of America - SBRs are illegal
FYI
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And which sovereignty group will be the rightful leaders of the nation? I can think of at least 5 groups off the top of my head, all laying claim.
That is the point that many of these so-called Hawaiian sovereignty groups don't realize. Since Hawaii was being illegally occupied, it never lost sovereignty. As such, post-occupation Hawaii would theoretically revert back to what it was prior to 1898. The discussion now is whether it would be the Hawaiian Kingdom that would return or the Republic.
If it is to be the Kingdom, after the death of Princess Kaiulani, there is no automatic legal heir to the throne. An election would have to take place to decide on the new reigning monarch per the Hawaiian Constitution of 1864.
If it is to be a republic, the transition from the US would be much more familiar and smoother. Much better option.
Plus all the haole still here with rifles who may not agree.
Inconsequential until such haole apply for official permanent residency or become legal citizens, once those processes become available.
I hope this doesn't lead to a civil war, it wouldn't look pretty.
No civil war looks pretty, but I could see one potentially start after deoccupation takes place.
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would it be a monarchy
back to topic,
if it was a monarchy would you think the King would allow the telescope to be built?
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Is your vision just one day everything would switch from US Govt controlled to Hawaiian Nation controlled?
It is unreasonable to think deoccupation would only take a day. It would definately take more than a few months or even years for it to be fully completed like in the case of Hong Kong from the UK to China.
And everything stay the same?
At least in the first few years, most things would stay the same. Why would anyone create unnecessary disruption? The problems Hawaii faces today would not change just because there is a change in the ruling flag being waved. The main welcomed difference; however, would be that those in-charge of making Hawaii a better place won't be the firearm unfriendly old-school Democratic Party that has dominated the islands since 1959. :geekdanc:
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currently on this land - the State of Hawaii, United States of America - SBRs are illegal
FYI
Yes, how unfortunate this situation is and will forever be, unless something changes.
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if it was a monarchy would you think the King would allow the telescope to be built?
I would really hope the ruling monarch sees both sides of the TMT issue and make the most pono decision, accordingly. There are positives and negatives in regards to the TMT issue.
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Is your vision just one day everything would switch from US Govt controlled to Hawaiian Nation controlled? And everything stay the same?
the US is going just say, "my bad" and all US Govt and State owned lands are returned as "reparations"
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I would really hope the ruling monarch sees both sides of the TMT issue and make the most pono decision, accordingly. There are positives and negatives in regards to the TMT issue.
Who would be the monarch? How would he/she be selected?
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Would be cool if they kept firearms on the mountain. "place of sojourn". Then when PD or Ige does something about it, violation of 2a right and Hawaii law as written.
I did see someone sleeping in the middle of the road, so they should sling a rifle and go back to sleep. PD can't do nothing.
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They can appoint me as monarch. Since I am not of Hawaiian ancestry, I will be able to treat all families equally. Just as Queen Kapiolani challanged Pele and nothing happened, proving Pele to be a false god, I would allow the TMT to be built. All who claimed the mountain was sacred would be forced to live there for the rest of their lives, which shouldn't be too long given the harsh conditions there.
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They can appoint me as monarch. Since I am not of Hawaiian ancestry, I will be able to treat all families equally. Just as Queen Kapiolani challanged Pele and nothing happened, proving Pele to be a false god, I would allow the TMT to be built. All who claimed the mountain was sacred would be forced to live there for the rest of their lives, which shouldn't be too long given the harsh conditions there.
Hawaii radio host Esme M. Infante wrote on social media, “@kimkardashian, please say this is a joke. You can’t use sacred words like ‘Pele’ and ‘Kilauea’ in this pilau way.”
https://twitter.com/Lanikai3/status/1153590926737936385?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw (https://twitter.com/Lanikai3/status/1153590926737936385?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw)
https://twitter.com/triggatracexo/status/1153564423946039296?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw (https://twitter.com/triggatracexo/status/1153564423946039296?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw)
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The main welcomed difference; however, would be that those in-charge of making Hawaii a better place won't be the firearm unfriendly old-school Democratic Party that has dominated the islands since 1959. :geekdanc:
On face value, the “anybody but Ige and Dems” sound enticing from a 2a standpoint. However, from my dealings with Hawaiian community leaders based on my work on State DOT projects, A) that would prob be retry low on their radar and B) if you could get enough support from a group working toward the same goal/vision.
This issue certainly seems to have galvanized things in that regard. But I still believe we’re hearing from the vocal minority.
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the US is going just say, "my bad" and all US Govt and State owned lands are returned as "reparations"
Tails :P
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On face value, the “anybody but Ige and Dems” sound enticing from a 2a standpoint. However, from my dealings with Hawaiian community leaders based on my work on State DOT projects, A) that would prob be retry low on their radar and B) if you could get enough support from a group working toward the same goal/vision.
This issue certainly seems to have galvanized things in that regard. But I still believe we’re hearing from the vocal minority.
Just tell em if anyone tries to take their land then can defend it. See Bundy Ranch standoff as a recent example.
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the US is going just say, "my bad" and all US Govt and State owned lands are returned as "reparations"
The terminology you are using is incorrect. There are no reparations; just deoccupation. The US is giving nothing material to the reinstated Hawaiian government, but the expedient withdrawal of their institutions of control.
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The terminology you are using is incorrect. There are no reparations; just deoccupation. The US is giving nothing material to the reinstated Hawaiian government, but the expedient withdrawal of their institutions of control.
so they can destroy the military bases and airport and harbors so that they can return the land in its' original condition...
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so they can destroy the military bases and airport and harbors so that they can return the land in its' original condition...
The illegal occupiers never "owned" any of that stuff as it was the legal property of the "kingdom" or the "republic" or "something", so they wouldn't be allowed to destroy it. Remember, the person you are "discussing" this with has already told us that "There is no dispute that the USA has no legal authority over Hawaii and that Hawaii is illegally being occupied by the USA". Case closed. Right?
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China wouldn't have to invade, once 70% percent of the state's nation's income vanishes China will gladly step in to "help". Unfortunately for the new nation of Hawaii, China has a "no f#@ks given" attitude in regards to the current politically correct and entitlement mindset that has allowed this situation to get to its current point. Im at the point where i say f$@k it. Dont haul the tanks to port drive'em on the fed interstate as a nice gift to the newborn nation.Destroy all fed infastructure on the way out. :popcorn:
Leave it as we found (took) it....
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What if this new monarchy wants the US infrastructure in place?
There are so many what-ifs and so many opinions, Kings & Queens that we don't know what or WHO to believe.
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so they can destroy the military bases and airport and harbors so that they can return the land in its' original condition...
He seems to believe that he will be able to utilize what was built by the “occupiers” and get rid of what he doesn’t want nor need.
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What if this new monarchy wants the US infrastructure in place?
There are so many what-ifs and so many opinions, Kings & Queens that we don't know what or WHO to believe.
You beat me to it... :thumbsup:
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The illegal occupiers never "owned" any of that stuff as it was the legal property of the "kingdom" or the "republic" or "something", so they wouldn't be allowed to destroy it. Remember, the person you are "discussing" this with has already told us that "There is no dispute that the USA has no legal authority over Hawaii and that Hawaii is illegally being occupied by the USA". Case closed. Right?
And who would stop us? The U.N. Or “global community”? Sure there would be “enemies” of the U.S. willing to step in and “help” but at what cost to the new republic? Just a pipe dream...... the U.S. isn’t going anywhere.
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What if this new monarchy wants a telescope?
Would the protestors still proclaim Mauna Kea a sacred place?
AND what if this new monarchy confiscated all firearms from commoners.
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so they can destroy the military bases and airport and harbors so that they can return the land in its' original condition...
The reinstated Hawaiian government can do nothing should the US decide to take this course of action, but I am confident other friendly nations will help Hawaii to rebuild.
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What if this new monarchy wants the US infrastructure in place?
There are so many what-ifs and so many opinions, Kings & Queens that we don't know what or WHO to believe.
All actions of deoccupation is according and subject to international law. Personal opinions of any individual do not count.
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He seems to believe that he will be able to utilize what was built by the “occupiers” and get rid of what he doesn’t want nor need.
That is what India did when the British left India and what China did when the Japanese were finally kicked out of their country and similarly what they did when the British was kicked out of Hong Kong.
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And who would stop us? The U.N. Or “global community”? Sure there would be “enemies” of the U.S. willing to step in and “help” but at what cost to the new republic? Just a pipe dream...... the U.S. isn’t going anywhere.
Your opinion, not the opinion of the majority of Hawaiians.
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The reinstated Hawaiian government can do nothing should the US decide to take this course of action, but I am confident other friendly nations will help Hawaii to rebuild.
You can't "reinstate" a "Hawaiian Government" as a monarchy. Monarchies have a single individual with supreme authority. You really think, after decades as a US state, the people of Hawaii would prefer an autocratic government over a representative one? The people would decide -- all the people, not just descendents of so-called Ali'i. To "reinstate" a monarchy requires a belief in elites, based on nothing other than bloodline, deserving more power over your lives than yourself.
Once a society has tasted freedom, it rarely goes back to authoritarian rule willingly.
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What if this new monarchy wants a telescope?
So be it.
Would the protestors still proclaim Mauna Kea a sacred place?
The spiritual protectors of TMT would probably still protest, but most other Hawaiians would accept the decision of their government.
AND what if this new monarchy confiscated all firearms from commoners.
That would be illegal and new legislation would need to be enacted for this to happen, as the possession of firearms was permitted during the Hawaiian Kingdom era.
[/b]
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You can't "reinstate" a "Hawaiian Government" as a monarchy. Monarchies have a single individual with supreme authority. You really think, after decades as a US state, the people of Hawaii would prefer an autocratic government over a representative one? The people would decide -- all the people, not just descendents of so-called Ali'i. To "reinstate" a monarchy requires a belief in elites, based on nothing other than bloodline, deserving more power over your lives than yourself.
Once a society has tasted freedom, it rarely goes back to authoritarian rule willingly.
If you read my previous posts, many Hawaiian historical and legal scholars are currently analyzing this issue of whether a monarchy or republic would be restored. I personally agree a democratically elected republic would likely be more practical and expedient political way moving forward.
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http://www.hawaiifreepress.com/ArticlesMain/tabid/56/ID/22770/Hawaii-Gun-Carry-Ban-Legit-Because-Its-Century-Old.aspx (http://www.hawaiifreepress.com/ArticlesMain/tabid/56/ID/22770/Hawaii-Gun-Carry-Ban-Legit-Because-Its-Century-Old.aspx)
“Hawaii’s petition for rehearing triumphantly declares that ‘Hawaii has regulated the public carry of firearms for over 150 years,’ pointing to various enactments in 1852, 1927, and 1934,” the brief explains.
The state argues such restrictions have been widespread and longstanding.
“This is quite an assertion. … For most of Hawaii’s history, the island nation had no republican form of government – rather, it was a monarchy, ruled by kings and queens. Even after later transitioning to a constitutional monarchy, the Kingdom of Hawaii Constitution of 1840 did not recognize a right of the people to bear arms.”
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http://www.hawaiifreepress.com/ArticlesMain/tabid/56/ID/22770/Hawaii-Gun-Carry-Ban-Legit-Because-Its-Century-Old.aspx (http://www.hawaiifreepress.com/ArticlesMain/tabid/56/ID/22770/Hawaii-Gun-Carry-Ban-Legit-Because-Its-Century-Old.aspx)
“Hawaii’s petition for rehearing triumphantly declares that ‘Hawaii has regulated the public carry of firearms for over 150 years,’ pointing to various enactments in 1852, 1927, and 1934,” the brief explains.
The state argues such restrictions have been widespread and longstanding.
“This is quite an assertion. … For most of Hawaii’s history, the island nation had no republican form of government – rather, it was a monarchy, ruled by kings and queens. Even after later transitioning to a constitutional monarchy, the Kingdom of Hawaii Constitution of 1840 did not recognize a right of the people to bear arms.”
The historical records offer no indication that Kingdom of Hawaii forbade the ownership of firearms. In fact, one needs to look at the illegal overthrow of the Hawaiian monarchy to learn how the American descended Hawaiian nationals legally acquired their firearms to conduct their insurrection.
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No king or queen with any sense would tolerate an armed populace.
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No king or queen with any sense would tolerate an armed populace.
How about a telescope?
(https://editorial01.shutterstock.com/wm-preview-1500/1510066a/e03619b5/the-king-of-afghanistan-looking-through-the-giant-telescope-at-greenwich-observatory-during-his-visit-yesterday-with-him-is-sir-frank-dyson-the-astronomer-royal-visit-of-king-amanullah-and-queen-surayya-of-afghanistan-to-britain-13th-march-3rd-apri-shutterstock-editorial-1510066a.jpg)
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I, as King of Hawaii, would allow a telescope. It is all about money.
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If you read my previous posts, many Hawaiian historical and legal scholars are currently analyzing this issue of whether a monarchy or republic would be restored. I personally agree a democratically elected republic would likely be more practical and expedient political way moving forward.
I read your other posts -- multiple times -- in multiple threads.
Just stating an opinion based on your choice of the words "reinstate Hawaii Government". Reinstate indicates reverting back to what once existed. Maybe "reinstate Hawaii's authority to self-rule" is more accurate?
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Your opinion, not the opinion of the majority of Hawaiians.
I don't care about the opinions of racist "Hawaiians".
The people that claim to practice "Hawaiian" cultural
practices are like Moslems to me.
Cultists with only the force of arms to make their case.
I encourage you to take up the fight.
You are really a dominate cult, right?
If so kick me off my land!
See where that will get you.
Aloha.
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If you support amnesty for dreamers, then you have no grounds for wanting to kick out US citizens if/when Hawaii becomes sovereign.
Those of us in Hawaii now have in no way assisted in the overthrow of the monarchy, just as Dreamers didn't willingly break US immigration law.
Lots of parallels between these two groups.
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I don't care about the opinions of racist "Hawaiians".
The people that claim to practice "Hawaiian" cultural
practices are like Moslems to me.
Cultists with only the force of arms to make their case.
I encourage you to take up the fight.
You are really a dominate cult, right?
If so kick me off my land!
See where that will get you.
Aloha.
Such an emotionally charged response laced with veiled threats. One would think it was coming from a liberal fanatic.
Calling all Hawaiians as racists and cultists is very extreme, don't you think?
Since you definitely are mentally distressed and need to release your stress, I suggest you and all others that believe as you do to go to Mauna Kea with a bullhorn and share your disdain for Hawaiians exercising free speech as well as how you hate anything Hawaiian.
IMUA!
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If you support amnesty for dreamers, then you have no grounds for wanting to kick out US citizens if/when Hawaii becomes sovereign.
Those of us in Hawaii now have in no way assisted in the overthrow of the monarchy, just as Dreamers didn't willingly break US immigration law.
Lots of parallels between these two groups.
Who said anything about kicking out US citizens? Who's going to pay the property taxes if there are no property owners?
Deoccupation primarily focuses on control of the nation state, its laws, and public lands.
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Such an emotionally charged response laced with veiled threats. One would think it was coming from a liberal fanatic.
Calling all Hawaiians as racists and cultists is very extreme, don't you think?
Since you definitely are mentally distressed and need to release your stress, I suggest you and all others that believe as you do to go to Mauna Kea with a bullhorn and share your disdain for Hawaiians exercising free speech as well as how you hate anything Hawaiian.
IMUA!
Talk about (thinly veiled) threats! What a hypocrite!
You're a blatant liar when you claim that the criminals breaking the law by blocking a public roadway are (merely) "Hawaiians exercising free speech". You think they'd return the favor of allowing us to exercise free speech and remain for weeks blocking their driveways and/or the roads to their homes? Sure they would. Because they are so enamored of the right to free speech and obeying the law. No one has a "right" to violate the rights of another person (which are de facto forfeited if that person engages in assault, etc.), certainly not without having to face the consequences of any and all laws they are breaking in doing so... EXCEPT, apparently in this case, where the racists are allowed to break the law with impunity by Democrat cowards cowering behind their fear of "offending" the racist criminals.
So, tell us, why do you suggest people opposed to the criminal lawbreakers go to the site of the criminal actiivity with a bullhorn and state our views about their breaking the law? What good would that do? What do you imagine would happen... I mean, given the solemn sacred location and sworn allegiance to "kapu aloha" and all?
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Who said anything about kicking out US citizens?
From a lengthy thread:
"If you don't have lineage going back that far [1893] you'd have to move out of Hawaii and apply for citizenship of [sic] you wanted to live here."
Yeah, I know, you're the person who knows it all, and part of your all knowing knowledge is that "there is no dispute" about any of this, so the above quote from that person means he doesn't exist and the quote doesn't exist because there is no dispute and you are always right.
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Talk about (thinly veiled) threats! What a hypocrite!
You're a blatant liar when you claim that the criminals breaking the law by blocking a public roadway are (merely) "Hawaiians exercising free speech". You think they'd return the favor of allowing us to exercise free speech and remain for weeks blocking their driveways and/or the roads to their homes? Sure they would. Because they are so enamored of the right to free speech and obeying the law. No one has a "right" to violate the rights of another person (which are de facto forfeited if that person engages in assault, etc.), certainly not without having to face the consequences of any and all laws they are breaking in doing so... EXCEPT, apparently in this case, where the racists are allowed to break the law with impunity by Democrat cowards cowering behind their fear of "offending" the racist criminals.
So, tell us, why do you suggest people opposed to the criminal lawbreakers go to the site of the criminal actiivity with a bullhorn and state our views about their breaking the law? What good would that do? What do you imagine would happen... I mean, given the solemn sacred location and sworn allegiance to "kapu aloha" and all?
Exercising free speech is a sacred right that everyone is entitled to do.
Are you afraid to say all the things you shared in this thread to the faces of the Hawaiian people you presumed to be in violation of the law? If not, take everyone that believes as you do on this forum and exercise your 1st Amendment Right on the summit of Mauna Kea.
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Citizenship would initially be offered to any living descendant of a Hawaiian national who can trace their lineage prior to the illegal annexation by the US in 1898. All other residents who resided in Hawaii after 1898 would be considered unofficial resident aliens that could elect to become permanent resident aliens once such process is enacted by the new body politic.
This is actually where many Hawaiian historical and legal scholars are still discussing. Some believe the monarchy needs to be restored, while others believe it should be replaced by a republic.
With deoccupation, all federal organizations would cease its operations in the islands and return to the US. As for possible invasion from China; China has not invaded any country for over the last 100 years. If there is any country that a nation should fear being invaded from, is the US, who has invaded more sovereign nations in the last 30 years than Russia, China, Iran, and North Korea COMBINED!
One needs to double check the last legal constitution Hawaii had prior to the illegal annexation of Hawaii by the US in 1898 to see if there were such provisions.
Politically it would be hard for the any US administration to administer the correct remedy to its Constitutionally illegal occupation of Hawaii, but as long as both aboriginal and non-aboriginal Hawaiian nationals galvanize, as is currently being done in the protests against TMT on Mauna Kea, yes there will always be hope.
Ok, clearly you have given this serious thought. I am going to push back a little though in the end I do think you recognize how very difficult it would be.
There are serious difficulties in trying to determine citizenship through who can trace back to an 1898 citizenship. Adoptions, lost records, no records, etc are all going to make it very difficult and it would inevitably deny some true native Hawaiians from having citizenship.
Also the amount of people who would not qualify for citizenship would be quite large. On one side of my family we are 4th generation in Hawaii yet I I would probably not qualify for citizenship. Now Hawaii is always going to be attractive but lets imagine the worst case scenario... half the population moves away as they are no longer citizens where they live. The economic effects could be disastrous. Also losing the tax revenue of all the military would also be economically harsh. Now I don't know if it would all scale down to match so that the decrease in revenue from people left would match the decrease in services but that isn't something to just cross fingers over.
I think restoring the monarchy would be a mistake. I think history is full of examples where civil wars have started when there are two sides claiming to be legitimate heirs.
China has been increasingly aggressive in the waters of southeast Asia. Their influence has also been extended to other areas not through force but through economic influence that gives them a political influence. They even have their hands in the politics of some polynesian governments. I don't think they would actually steam on over and invade us but we would become a significant country for them to try and exert control over.
But let me give you this question to really ponder over. Say de-occupation did happen and it was managed relatively well so there was no disastrous economic impact or civil war or exodus. Would anything really change? Might we still have apathetic voters who elect democrats, have the same issues with corruption, have the same high cost of living, the same drug and crime problems, the same issues with a TMT, etc? Would we still not be the same exact Hawaii just with a different flag? Should we still separate from the USA just on the principle of it?
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Here is one issue I have with the protest over the TMT:
They often ask whether supporters would allow a telescope to be built on a church or monument but this is a bit disingenuous. Protestors are claiming the whole mountain, not some site. If the telescope were going to be built on a heiiau then I totally agree but just coming out and making kapu to anything on the whole mountain? Can we just declare whole areas sacred too? No building in Waianae, no building Waialua, just say they all sacred. There is even a telescope built in the Vatican. Some have pointed out there is no historical record to validate that Mauna Kea was even considered a holy site. I am not saying someone made it up but I wouldn't put it past some passionate protesters either.
And secondly, why must the telescope be seen as unholy? No one is going to build a hotel on an ancient burial ground or bulldoze an ahupuaa for a race car track. Would the ancient hawaiians who actually practiced these religious beliefs really think that a telescope to study the stars was sacrilegious? So even if we all agree the mountain is sacred and a holy place why would that then mean no telescope can be built? The conclusion does not inherently follow the premise.
At least with the oil pipeline there were serious environmental concerns but the environmental issues for the telescope are very few compared to the oil pipeline.
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Some people just like to protest everything. H3 and the first 7-11 in Kaaawa, the resorts in Ko Olin’s, the widening of Kal Hwy in the 1990s are just a few examples. The one they should have really stopped is rail. The pounding rain woke me up at 0200. Hope the sacred mountain is getting blessed as much.
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Exercising free speech is a sacred right that everyone is entitled to do.
Are you afraid to say all the things you shared in this thread to the faces of the Hawaiian people you presumed to be in violation of the law? If not, take everyone that believes as you do on this forum and exercise your 1st Amendment Right on the summit of Mauna Kea.
The liar and dissembler refuses to answer the questions. Again.
Why would anyone be "afraid" to exercise their right to free speech in front of the criminal racists who have sworn to "kapu aloha" on their superstitious "sacred" "cultural practice" location? Oh, I get it...you mean because you, and everyone else, knows full well that you and they are blatant hypocrites who in the blink of an eye will turn violent when they hear something they don't like from someone exercising their free speech right.
How would we get to the "summit of Mauna Kea" asshole? Your criminal racist buddies are blocking the public road. Or don't you know what's going on there? Dumbass.
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Two letters to the editor from the Hilo Tribune-Herald today:
My ‘sacred mountain’
I declare Termite Hill sacred.
I’m going to find some people with nothing better to do to blockade the access road and be the Termite Hill Protectors.
They will stay as long as they can eat, drink and party for free. Then I’ll get mirrored sunglasses and a cool hat, start posing, and dictate my demands to the media.
When people want to go to the medical centers there, I won’t let them through. High-tech western medicine won’t be allowed on my sacred mountain. Any new medical facility will have to be built in the Canary Islands.
State courts will eventually rule against me, but what does that matter?
The governor is too weak to govern, and the police are too afraid to enforce the law.
So, everybody who wants a piece of Hawaii, grab it now! You can make the sky any color you want it to be on your sacred mountain.
Elizabeth Novak
Pahoa
They are traitors
State government officials that support and encourage secessionists are committing treason against the United States.
The last time U.S. elected officials supported secessionists was in 1861 in Charleston, South Carolina.
Hawaii is going to be sued for over $1 billion by the Thirty Meter Telescope consortium if Gov. David Ige, Lt. Gov. Josh Green and Mayor Harry Kim kill this thing to pander to secessionists.
Their words and inaction are not merely craven, they are unconstitutional and illegal.
You either have the rule of law or you don’t. The rule of law says the time has come to build this thing.
If there is no longer the rule of law, then elected officials need to be removed from office and sent to prison with their secessionist friends on the mauna.
If this cannot be done by single-party rule in Hawaii, then it needs to be done by the U.S. Marines.
Nearly 1 million Americans died in a war against secession in 1861-‘65. I guess they do not teach that in the schools here.
There exists no higher crime for an elected U.S. official than to openly support and encourage secessionists. The traitors Ige, Green and Kim stand knee-deep in blood while they make their absurd statements about nonviolence and peace, even at the cost of supporting secession from the United States.
John Powers
Pahoa
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it's a PARTAY! :love: :rofl:
https://www.kitv.com/story/40868168/more-mauna-kea-visitors-na-hoku-awardwinning-artist-and-former-ufc-fighter (https://www.kitv.com/story/40868168/more-mauna-kea-visitors-na-hoku-awardwinning-artist-and-former-ufc-fighter)
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But let me give you this question to really ponder over. Say de-occupation did happen and it was managed relatively well so there was no disastrous economic impact or civil war or exodus. Would anything really change? Might we still have apathetic voters who elect democrats
The Democratic Party would not exist in the restored Hawaiian nation. Thank God! It would be safe to presume new political parties would begin given the new political landscape and not just TWO PARTIES! That's the best part.
have the same issues with corruption,
There will be corruption, but much of the corruption would at least be swept away in the first few decades given the new playing field.
have the same high cost of living,
The cost of living on an island nation will always be relatively expensive due to transportation costs, but will go down with the elimination of the Jones Act and the fact Hawaii will be a neutral free-trade zone, as it was prior to the illegal annexation by the US.
the same drug and crime problems,
You would know best, DRUGS are everywhere and crime will always be. However, the new body politic will have an opportunity to squash any criminal newcomers.
the same issues with a TMT, etc?
The culture-centered protestors of TMT would still be against, but I suspect the majority of Hawaiians, like myself, would be willing to compromise for its completion.
Would we still not be the same exact Hawaii just with a different flag? Should we still separate from the USA just on the principle of it?
Although daily life would remain the same, this is a good thing as disruption too fast, too soon is not good for anyone. However, with the US Government out of the way, real entrepreneurial opportunity for all residents and peace-of-mind from the risk of being attacked by any of America's enemies would both increase.
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^^^ because you wrote inside someone else's quotes...
How did you come to those conclusions Kuleana?
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The liar and dissembler refuses to answer the questions. Again.
So you believe.
Why would anyone be "afraid" to exercise their right to free speech in front of the criminal racists who have sworn to "kapu aloha" on their superstitious "sacred" "cultural practice" location? Oh, I get it...you mean because you, and everyone else, knows full well that you and they are blatant hypocrites who in the blink of an eye will turn violent when they hear something they don't like from someone exercising their free speech right.
Making comments that the people who are opposed to TMT are violent is very judgmental and wrong.
How would we get to the "summit of Mauna Kea" asshole? Your criminal racist buddies are blocking the public road. Or don't you know what's going on there? Dumbass.
Is this the 2A Hawaii forum or the Democratic National Convention? Name calling? Really immature. So sad... :(
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"deny or denigrate science"
https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/harrison-ford-knocks-trump-others-who-denigrate-science (https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/harrison-ford-knocks-trump-others-who-denigrate-science)
same as protestors
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From a lengthy thread:
"If you don't have lineage going back that far [1893] you'd have to move out of Hawaii and apply for citizenship of [sic] you wanted to live here."
Citizenship after deoccupation are only for those who were official nationals or descended from such nationals of that nation prior to that occupation.
Yeah, I know, you're the person who knows it all, and part of your all knowing knowledge is that "there is no dispute" about any of this, so the above quote from that person means he doesn't exist and the quote doesn't exist because there is no dispute and you are always right.
Not always right, but very legally clear on what is an illegal occupation and what needs to happen after deoccupation takes place.
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Who said anything about kicking out US citizens? Who's going to pay the property taxes if there are no property owners?
Deoccupation primarily focuses on control of the nation state, its laws, and public lands.
Can't wait for the Haole Tax ....
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Can't wait for the Haole Tax ....
Depends on which definition of haole. It's true meaning or today's slang.
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Don't matter - in a monarchy the King / Queen decides. Or what ever pipe dream of a government replaces the current one.
So let's get back to talking about... ???
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My father was born in 1910, the youngest of 10 children. My grandparents moved to Hawaii from China after 1893 but before 1898. Would I be "grandfathered" in as a citizen under Kuleana's new Hawaiian government? Or do I get a spousal exemption because my wife is one qtr Hawaiian?
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Nothing on HNN 7am news about TMT protest. I wanted to see what the situation was like with the heavy rains, but I think HNN told their people to get off the mountain during the storm.
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My father was born in 1910, the youngest of 10 children. My grandparents moved to Hawaii from China after 1893 but before 1898. Would I be "grandfathered" in as a citizen under Kuleana's new Hawaiian government? Or do I get a spousal exemption because my wife is one qtr Hawaiian?
Apparently, according to the thread expert on all things deoccupation: if you own real estate here, you're good to stay! :thumbsup:
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The liar and dissembler refuses to answer the questions. Again.
So you believe.
**** It's not a question of "belief". There are simple facts: You lie ("there is no dispute"). Or ignorant beyond belief. Which is it? And, you didn't answer the questions, so that doesn't require belief either, it's a fact.
Why would anyone be "afraid" to exercise their right to free speech in front of the criminal racists who have sworn to "kapu aloha" on their superstitious "sacred" "cultural practice" location? Oh, I get it...you mean because you, and everyone else, knows full well that you and they are blatant hypocrites who in the blink of an eye will turn violent when they hear something they don't like from someone exercising their free speech right.
Making comments that the people who are opposed to TMT are violent is very judgmental and wrong.
**** Again, refuse to answer the question. Why should we be "afraid" to exercise our free speech rights in the presence of the superstitious racist criminals at the Mauna Kea access road? If they aren't violent, why do you suggest we go and see what happens when a view contrary to theirs is voiced? What is your point, if not that? Go ahead, give us one of your "indisputable" answers. Or, continue to deflect and avoid, like usual.
How would we get to the "summit of Mauna Kea" asshole? Your criminal racist buddies are blocking the public road. Or don't you know what's going on there? Dumbass.
Is this the 2A Hawaii forum or the Democratic National Convention? Name calling? Really immature. So sad... :(
**** Yeah, this is the DNC. That's mature for sure. And really clever. Dumbass. Liar. Hypocrite. So dumbass liar hypocrite when are you taking me to the summit of Mauna Kea like you suggested we do to exercise our first amendment rights?
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From a lengthy thread:
"If you don't have lineage going back that far [1893] you'd have to move out of Hawaii and apply for citizenship of [sic] you wanted to live here."
Citizenship after deoccupation are only for those who were official nationals or descended from such nationals of that nation prior to that occupation.
**** Yeah, you don't answer the question. You asked a question "who said that?" and I provided the quote stating "you'd have to move out of Hawaii". You don't answer that at all and only repeat your previously (20 times?) stated assertion about citizenship, which has nothing to do with the question at hand. Hypocrite.
Yeah, I know, you're the person who knows it all, and part of your all knowing knowledge is that "there is no dispute" about any of this, so the above quote from that person means he doesn't exist and the quote doesn't exist because there is no dispute and you are always right.
Not always right, but very legally clear on what is an illegal occupation and what needs to happen after deoccupation takes place.
**** LOL! "Very legally clear"? That's nothing more than your personal opinion (and a deluded one at that) about what the legalities are. You're absurd assertion that "there is no dispute" about any of those legal questions that you claim to be so "very legally clear on" is belied by these very forums, and literally thousands of articles, including ones in legal journals that not only "dispute" your ignorant claims, but totally contradict them. Your delusion is not amenable to reason, or reality. But apparently you like living in fantasy land. So be it. But don't expect us to believe you or your obvious lies and stupidity.
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https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2019/08/02/tensions-high-uh-board-regents-meeting-mauna-kea-management/ (https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2019/08/02/tensions-high-uh-board-regents-meeting-mauna-kea-management/)
“Yes, I hope David Lassner resigns,” Kaeo told the board. “In fact, I challenge Mr. Lassner to a public debate on whether or not this institution is a system of racism."
I went to UH as a minority with no problems. Only problem I had were my bad grades...because I didn't go to class regularly and studied like I should....
forget all that...
Racism!
because I had bad grades....
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Was OHA ever involved with this?
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Was OHA ever involved with this?
from the beginning...
http://hawaiifreepress.com/ArticlesMain/tabid/56/ID/23944/OHA-Anti-Telescope-Activism-Begins-With-Rejection-of-Cayetano-Era-Settlement.aspx (http://hawaiifreepress.com/ArticlesMain/tabid/56/ID/23944/OHA-Anti-Telescope-Activism-Begins-With-Rejection-of-Cayetano-Era-Settlement.aspx)
...Kealoha Pisciotta, explains how, in 2001, her organization Mauna Kea -Anaina Hou, along with the Royal Order of Kamehameha, developed a demand for $50M...
http://www.hawaiifreepress.com/ArticlesMain/tabid/56/ID/15019/Telescope-For-OHA-itrsquos-all-About-the-Rent-Money.aspx (http://www.hawaiifreepress.com/ArticlesMain/tabid/56/ID/15019/Telescope-For-OHA-itrsquos-all-About-the-Rent-Money.aspx)
As the media’s illusory graph of the body politic busily traces the arch of hysteria, Pisciotta didn’t tell CBS about her “economic proposal”—Lease rent for “god’s home” of “$50 million per year.” And nobody mentioned Clayton Hee’s 2002 demand for astronomers to cough up “$20 million in endowments” for the Office of Hawaiian Affairs (OHA).
https://www.kitv.com/story/40838984/oha-approves-resolution-to-fund-supplies-for-demonstrators-at-mauna-kea (https://www.kitv.com/story/40838984/oha-approves-resolution-to-fund-supplies-for-demonstrators-at-mauna-kea)
The Office of Hawaiian Affairs is asking Governor David Ige to rescind his emergency proclamation for Mauna Kea. All nine trustees unanimously voted Thursday to approve a resolution that supports a proclamation retraction and allows OHA to advocate for the health and well being of demonstrators.
That includes releasing funds to provide supplies for protectors at the base of the summit.
So most of these protestors who joined the truck cruises and the demonstrators won't be seeing any of the $50M if TMT gets through...all that gas...time...energy. For nothing. It's all about empowering OHA trustees.
Money...$50M a year for the life of the TMT...under the guise of Hawaiian Sovereignty, sacred, religion, movement etc...
oh yeah...OHA has a lot of "cultural" influence with their immersion schools. a la 1984
and it's deeper than the TMT
http://www.hawaiifreepress.com/ArticlesMain/tabid/56/ID/340/OHA-driving-Hawaiians-out-of-Hawaii.aspx (http://www.hawaiifreepress.com/ArticlesMain/tabid/56/ID/340/OHA-driving-Hawaiians-out-of-Hawaii.aspx)
Thousands of Hawaiians and non-Hawaiians have left Hawaii in recent years. In 2007 nearly 10,000 residents left—proportionally higher than the average rate of exodus from communist Cuba. The primary reason for these departures is the lack of affordable housing in Hawai`i. And yet the Office of Hawaiian Affairs has consumed the last 14 years seeking to prevent the construction of affordable housing on ‘ceded’ lands. According to OHA ‘ceded’ lands are to be used for the benefit of Hawaiians. In reality OHA’s policy is to grab power for its Trustees by preventing the use of ‘ceded;’ lands for the benefit of Hawaiians and non-Hawaiians alike.
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:sleeping: :sleeping: :sleeping: Kuleana’s bullshit is getting very old and very deep..... :wtf:
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All the Hawaiian sovereignty groups are only concerned about getting money and power for themselves. No different than any other politician.
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My father was born in 1910, the youngest of 10 children. My grandparents moved to Hawaii from China after 1893 but before 1898. Would I be "grandfathered" in as a citizen under Kuleana's new Hawaiian government? Or do I get a spousal exemption because my wife is one qtr Hawaiian?
Why would you not be? Your grandparents presumably gained legal status during the Republic era. There should be no issue should you, a descendant of a Hawaiian national, choose to reclaim Hawaiian citizenship.
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:sleeping: :sleeping: :sleeping: Kuleana’s bullshit is getting very old and very deep..... :wtf:
Your opinion.
Please review the US Constitution and show me where the annexation of Hawaii in 1898 by the US is legal.
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Your opinion.
Please review the US Constitution and show me where the annexation of Hawaii in 1898 by the US is legal.
the TMT was deemed legal...isn't what this thread is about?
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It was until someone decided to go into the direction it has gone.
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It was until someone decided to go into the direction it has gone.
Gee, I wonder who that would be?
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https://www.bizjournals.com/pacific/news/2019/08/01/mountain-of-lies-against-tmt.html
Mountain of lies against TMT
By A. Kam Napier – Editor-in-Chief, Pacific Business News
One of the frustrating things about watching the Thirty Meter Telescope protests stifle construction are all the emotionally manipulative lies being used to justify the blockade. Chief among the mischaracterizations is the idea that the telescope is somehow going to make greedy developers rich.
None other than actor Leonardo DiCaprio did a drive-by social media hit this weekend advancing that whopper, by passing along Instagram posts from graphic designer Ashley Lukashevsky and ethically challenged former state Rep. Kaniela Ing. Lukashevsky, a part-time Hawaii resident who sells “Protect Mauna Kea” posters for $25 on her website, says: “Standing in solidarity with protestors on Mauna Kea, protecting the sacred aina from scientific imperialism. It breaks my heart to see indigenous people and land continue to be dismissed by the state of Hawaii and its wealthy developers.”
Ing’s post says the protests are “an environmental struggle against wealthy developers who seek free reign. It’s a microcosm of what’s happening across Hawaii and the world: profiteers exploiting fragile places without regards for the future. … Some things are more important than a quick buck — like our planet’s and people’s survival. That would be $1.3 billion well spent.”
That’s some pretty dramatic rhetoric. It’s also untrue.
There are no greedy developers. There is no profit, no quick buck, no profiteering. The $1.4 billion price tag is not proof that shadowy evil rich guys somewhere expect to get richer. It’s proof only that such a sophisticated, one-of-a-kind instrument is extremely complicated and expensive to build. And it’s being built, if it’s ever allowed to be built, by a nonprofit organization that basically has to beg for the money in the form of grants.
If you can’t oppose something without lying about it, then the thing you’re opposing literally does not exist. You’re opposing nothing but a figment of your imagination.
The only real profit to be made on Mauna Kea is knowledge.
Just last week, Hawaii Island’s W.M. Keck Observatory announced that observations made there of a star transiting a supermassive black hole near the center of our galaxy will play an important part in understanding how well Albert Einstein’s theories hold up. The observations have taken nearly a quarter century to perform and can shed light on how the universe itself operates.
This is not a luxury resort being built over the iwi. This is not Kahoolawe being bombed by the Navy. It’s a telescope. It’s something everyone can be proud of. The protestors want to decide for all of us, Hawaiian and non-Hawaiian alike, that learning new things is just “scientific imperialism” and something Hawaii wants no part of.
That’s the bottom line for protestor leader Kahookahi Kanuha, who has flat-out stated there is nothing to negotiate. Their position is final. No TMT. The Canary Islands can have it. Humanity can get smarter over there.
What a thing to be proud of.
As for the state, what can I say? Gov. David Ige has punted the negotiations, in which one side won’t negotiate, to Mayor Harry Kim, who doesn’t want the job and literally has no role to play. It is not his county government that is really being tested here.
Does Ige get this? Does anyone in the administration get it? Does the Legislature? The protestors are testing you. They think you’re kidding when you say TMT has a legal right to proceed. They think the entirety of state government is an illegitimate joke.
A million other citizens of Hawaii are waiting to see if the state will prove the protestors right, that state government is, in fact, a joke.
If the state caves, the protestors will celebrate, briefly, before the sad reality kicks in. Winning this will do nothing for them, nothing for Hawaii. They’ll be king of the hill on a mountain of spite.
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The "legal status" or the "purported legal status"?
The quoted comment is totally "on topic with TMT".That's Lyin' Harry's prefatory comment laying the groundwork and framework upon which he will be having "discussions" with the criminals currently blocking a public road.
I believe it was you. Your statement above made it an issue, when in my post right before yours above, I commented how the thread should stay on the topic of TMT.
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All graphics referenced are at the original article as linked.
Fact-Checking Environmental Concerns About The Thirty Meter Telescope
https://www.civilbeat.org/2019/08/fact-checking-environmental-concerns-about-the-thirty-meter-telescope/
TMT officials say the world’s largest telescope will be a zero-waste facility, while the state has determined it doesn’t pose a risk to the Big Island’s water supply.
Emotions have been running high about the plan to build another telescope on Mauna Kea, a mountain on the Big Island that’s already home to a thriving astronomy industry. Hundreds of activists remain at the base of Mauna Kea Access Road and plan to stay to prevent construction trucks from heading up the mountain.
Some who consider the mountain sacred believe adding another structure to be desecration, no matter what that structure is. But many opponents also have concerns about the environmental impact of what would be the world’s largest visible-light telescope.
Some of the environmental claims raised on social media, like rumors about the TMT being fueled by nuclear power, are false. Other facts are more nuanced or complex than they initially appear.
It doesn’t help that the University of Hawaii has a poor history of managing the mountain. A 1998 state audit found that observatories left trash and old equipment and damaged historical sites and endangered species habitat. The mountain facilities also have a history of chemical and waste spills that include up to 1,000 gallons of sewage overflowing in 2008.
But the university has improved its management of the mountain over the past two decades and the TMT International Observatory, the nonprofit organization behind the TMT, says this project will be a zero-waste facility with minimal impact on the mountain.
Civil Beat examined some of the key environmental questions about the project:
How big will the TMT be?
Civil Beat recently received this question from a reader: “How much more land is intended to be used for the new telescope or are they removing one or two of the old telescopes and using the same pads for the new one? I’ve been told they are taking thousands of more acres? Is this true?”
The TMT is going to be built on a new site, not on top of decommissioned telescopes. The entire project area is expected to take up 5 acres, including the telescope dome, support building and parking lot. The building itself will be 180 feet high and 14 feet below ground level.
This rendering of the Thirty Meter Telescope shows that the observatory is smaller than Aloha Stadium. The TIO created this rendering after hearing rumors that the TMT would be comparable in size to Aloha Stadium.
Gordon Squires, vice president for external relations for the TMT International Observatory, says the project site is less visible than the mountain peak would be and isn’t home to any endangered species. The project construction won’t involve dynamite.
The organization’s environmental impact statement acknowledges that the TMT’s construction will disturb some habitat of the wekiu bug, a formerly endangered species. The analysis includes plans to mitigate the impact.
Squires says the TIO also has a plan to decommission the telescope after its lifetime, which is estimated to be 50 years of use.
Currently the state is planning to decommission five telescopes on the mountain. Two have been sitting unused for several years and are in the process of being decommissioned. The remaining 11 observatories are in use and continue to produce scientific data.
What impact — if any — will the TMT have on the Big Island’s aquifer and water supply?
The TMT’s potential effect on the water supply is one of the most commonly voiced environmental concerns by activists.
The state has concluded that the telescope doesn’t pose a risk to the aquifer or Hawaii island’s water supply. This is based on scientists who testified at public hearings and contributed to the environmental analysis of the project.
Here’s Part 1 of a list of chemical spills on Mauna Kea and how they’ve been addressed historically. The state has concluded that it’s extremely unlikely any spills would affect groundwater.
The closest groundwater wells are 12 miles away and because the project site is thousands of feet above sea level, it’s expected to have no significant impact on natural resources. Here’s Judge Riki May Amano’s description in her ruling approving the TMT’s 2017 permit:
“The groundwater beneath the summit of Mauna Kea is impounded and compartmentalized by subsurface geologic structures. Because the TMT Observatory will use a zero-discharge wastewater system, wastewater will not be released from the TMT Project so no percolation of wastewater will reach the aquifer.
“Moreover, Mauna Kea is comprised of very porous lavas that naturally treat and filter water percolating downward. A discharge on the summit area would be naturally treated and filtered through thousands of feet of the porous lavas, which would remove any contamination from that discharge before reaching any groundwater.
“Contamination of groundwater is extremely remote and very unlikely from the TMT Project. There is no reasonable prospect of an adverse impact on either drinking or coastal waters from the TMT Project.”
Here’s why some opponents still have concerns about the impact on drinking water despite the judge’s ruling.
Kealoha Pisciotta, a longtime opponent of the TMT, says that she doesn’t believe scientists know enough about the mountain’s geology to be certain that any potential chemical spills wouldn’t reach the groundwater. She noted that scientists are still discovering new information about where water is located on Hawaii island. The TMT’s environmental impact statement was conducted in 2009 and she thinks there should be a newer analysis done with better experts.
What about chemical spills and hazardous waste?
As far as buildings go, the TMT is taking lots of steps to prevent any emission of waste. Solid waste and hazardous waste produced by existing observatories are already routinely removed from Mauna Kea. The nonprofit behind the TMT has a multi-step plan to ensure the telescope doesn’t pollute the mountain.
“All of our containment vessels are double-walled, all of our waste is removed from the mountain,” says Squires of the telescope. “None of it is discharged up there.”
Unlike previous observatories, the TMT will not use mercury.
Here’s Part 2 of a list of chemical spills on Mauna Kea and how they’ve been addressed historically.
Opponents’ concerns about pollution stem from past spills of hydraulic fluid and other chemicals. Some observatories’ generators use diesel fuel, waste oil and coolant such as ethylene glycol.
“In the past, there have been instances in which the cinder was contaminated and then excavated to contain the potential effects of the spill,” the TMT’s environmental statement acknowledges.
But not all spills occurred outdoors. The analysis also says: “The best available information suggests that while mercury spills have occurred, spilled amounts occurred inside during mirror handling activities and were small.”
At Hale Pohaku, where facilities for astronomers and other observatory staff exist, there are three underground storage tanks that hold diesel fuel and gasoline. These exist whether or not the TMT is built, and the project’s environmental analysis says there have never been leaks at these underground storage tanks.
Will the TMT use nuclear power?
No. This is an unfounded claim that’s occasionally floating on social media.
The TMT will rely on Hawaii County’s electric grid, similar to other observatories. There won’t be any nuclear power used on the site at all, and there is no nuclear energy currently used by other telescopes on Mauna Kea.
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Your opinion.
Please review the US Constitution and show me where the annexation of Hawaii in 1898 by the US is legal.
Consider yourself "shown" -- again.
The arguments supporting the annexation being legal make more sense than anything I've seen posted on here calling it illegal.
https://www.civilbeat.org/2015/07/the-myth-of-hawaiis-illegal-annexation/
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Consider yourself "shown" -- again.
The arguments supporting the annexation being legal make more sense than anything I've seen posted on here calling it illegal.
https://www.civilbeat.org/2015/07/the-myth-of-hawaiis-illegal-annexation/
Hey, that can't be real! The person here who is all-knowing has told us that there "is no dispute" that the "annexation" of Hawaii is illegal. That settled it. After he made that pronouncement he told us to get back on topic and not question his profound elite knowledge. Whasa mattah wit you? There is no reasoning possible with these puppet Sai-bots who are under the lying influence of the scam artist Sai. They know it all, there is "no dispute", this state is illegally occupied. Now, hand over your stuff and get out. Oh, yeah, and don't forget to read the Constitution on your way out.
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Consider yourself "shown" -- again.
The arguments supporting the annexation being legal make more sense than anything I've seen posted on here calling it illegal.
https://www.civilbeat.org/2015/07/the-myth-of-hawaiis-illegal-annexation/
Really Flapp?
You're basing your rebuttal of the illegal annexation of Hawaii by the US in 1898 on an article written by a graduate student, not in law, political science, or history, but in social work?
I am very familiar with that article and found it amusing when I read it long ago to see how this graduate student, who is not a subject matter expert in any of the content areas I listed, think he has the credentials to criticize a senior Professor of Law at the University of Hawaii at Manoa, Williamson Chang, and his position reaffirming how Hawaii is not legally part of the US, but illegally occupied by them.
I am well aware of your attention to detail and relentlessness in getting the last say in things, but you have do better that get a graduate student to do your dirty work.
In the words of the editor of that article you cited:
Editor’s Note: "The writer is a graduate student in social work. He notes that part of his curriculum requires that he self-identify as a social work professional. He stresses, though, that he has not been licensed and is not yet a professional social worker in the State of Hawaii."
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HNN has released a mini documentary on the TMT Conflict.
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2019/08/03/watch-conflict-mauna-kea-where-it-stands-mini-documentary/
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The Democratic Party would not exist in the restored Hawaiian nation. Thank God! It would be safe to presume new political parties would begin given the new political landscape and not just TWO PARTIES! That's the best part.
It would still exist just with new names.
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Really Flapp?
You're basing your rebuttal of the illegal annexation of Hawaii by the US in 1898 on an article written by a graduate student, not in law, political science, or history, but in social work?
I am very familiar with that article and found it amusing when I read it long ago to see how this graduate student, who is not a subject matter expert in any of the content areas I listed, think he has the credentials to criticize a senior Professor of Law at the University of Hawaii at Manoa, Williamson Chang, and his position reaffirming how Hawaii is not legally part of the US, but illegally occupied by them.
I am well aware of your attention to detail and relentlessness in getting the last say in things, but you have do better that get a graduate student to do your dirty work.
In the words of the editor of that article you cited:
Editor’s Note: "The writer is a graduate student in social work. He notes that part of his curriculum requires that he self-identify as a social work professional. He stresses, though, that he has not been licensed and is not yet a professional social worker in the State of Hawaii."
What I am WELL AWARE OF is you spent several lines of text attacking the voracity and credentials of the author while giving an opinion of the article as "amusing."
I am also WELL AWARE you failed to list a single point he made that was incorrect along with evidence as to why you think so.
Typical. Nobody can have a discussion with someone who prefers denial over facts.
Dismiss the article all you want. It's proof that not everyone is buying into the "illegal annexation" BS.
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Hawaii lost the "war" with the US and was annexed/taken over / whatever wording makes you happy. Illegal, legal, who cares. That's in the past and is part of the past of every single country in the entire world. Long story short, just focus on the future. Science offers the best future.
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Really Flapp?
You're basing your rebuttal of the illegal annexation of Hawaii by the US in 1898 on an article written by a graduate student, not in law, political science, or history, but in social work?
I am very familiar with that article and found it amusing when I read it long ago to see how this graduate student, who is not a subject matter expert in any of the content areas I listed, think he has the credentials to criticize a senior Professor of Law at the University of Hawaii at Manoa, Williamson Chang, and his position reaffirming how Hawaii is not legally part of the US, but illegally occupied by them.
I am well aware of your attention to detail and relentlessness in getting the last say in things, but you have do better that get a graduate student to do your dirty work.
In the words of the editor of that article you cited:
Editor’s Note: "The writer is a graduate student in social work. He notes that part of his curriculum requires that he self-identify as a social work professional. He stresses, though, that he has not been licensed and is not yet a professional social worker in the State of Hawaii."
Really Kuleana?
You're asserting that the validity of an argument or of the claimed facts is based upon some status or position held by the writer? That's your argument? You really want to claim that because someone is a lawyer (of all things) they can't be wrong or a liar? That's patently laughable. But no doubt what you believe because that's what you just wrote. You don't make any other argument, such as actually disputing the factual claims of the article itself (which you wouldn't do, of course, because you, in whatever high official status you have, unknown to us, is that there "is no dispute"). Preposterous.
Here's a link to all the documents, including the treaty of annexation: http://www.angelfire.com/big09a/TreatyOfAnnexationHawaiiUS.html
Here is a link to a website having almost 500 (five hundred) articles disputing the very thing that our resident genius qualified-in-the-field (apparently, otherwise s/he wouldn't say anything because s/he claims that anything said by anyone not "qualified" in the appropriate field is worthless garbage, and we know that wouldn't apply to him/her/zir) claims "there is no dispute" about.
http://www.angelfire.com/hi2/hawaiiansovereignty/
This includes exchanges with the above mentioned Chang in what for all appearances seems to be a "dispute", which doesn't exist according the the expert Kuleana. I guess it's just a figment of anyone who reads it's imagination..
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What I am WELL AWARE OF is you spent several lines of text attacking the voracity and credentials of the author while giving an opinion of the article as "amusing."
I am also WELL AWARE you failed to list a single point he made that was incorrect along with evidence as to why you think so.
Typical. Nobody can have a discussion with someone who prefers denial over facts.
Dismiss the article all you want. It's proof that not everyone is buying into the "illegal annexation" BS.
The credentials of someone offering an analysis of a particular subject matter is paramount when arguing an issue of that same subject matter.
Both Law Professor Chang and the Graduate Student who authored your chosen article to refute the illegal annexation of Hawaii by the US in 1898 was privy to the same evidence and documents that led them to their conclusions. However, whose analysis carries more weight? A law professor or a graduate student? THAT'S THE QUESTION.
In the Court of Flapp_Jackson, it appears an opinion from a graduate student, who has no legal, political, or historical background, outweighs a law professor.
However, in a court of law, I believe everyone would agree a law professor's analysis would be more credible.
ARE YOU DENYING THIS?
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Really Kuleana?
You're asserting that the validity of an argument or of the claimed facts is based upon some status or position held by the writer? That's your argument? You really want to claim that because someone is a lawyer (of all things) they can't be wrong or a liar? That's patently laughable. But no doubt what you believe because that's what you just wrote. You don't make any other argument, such as actually disputing the factual claims of the article itself (which you wouldn't do, of course, because you, in whatever high official status you have, unknown to us, is that there "is no dispute"). Preposterous.
Here's a link to all the documents, including the treaty of annexation: http://www.angelfire.com/big09a/TreatyOfAnnexationHawaiiUS.html
Here is a link to a website having almost 500 (five hundred) articles disputing the very thing that our resident genius qualified-in-the-field (apparently, otherwise s/he wouldn't say anything because s/he claims that anything said by anyone not "qualified" in the appropriate field is worthless garbage, and we know that wouldn't apply to him/her/zir) claims "there is no dispute" about.
http://www.angelfire.com/hi2/hawaiiansovereignty/
This includes exchanges with the above mentioned Chang in what for all appearances seems to be a "dispute", which doesn't exist according the the expert Kuleana. I guess it's just a figment of anyone who reads it's imagination..
Similarly in the case of Flapp using a person with no background in law, political science, or history; the credentials of Kenneth Conklin, a person whose background is mathematics and education, is the authority and personal blog you choose to cite to refute the illegal annexation of Hawaii by the US in 1898?
Do you think a person with a mathematics and education background can offer an analysis of a legal matter that carries more weight than a law professor in a court of law?
Maybe in the Court of Flapp_Jackson, but not in a Court of Law.
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The credentials of someone offering an analysis of a particular subject matter is paramount when arguing an issue of that same subject matter.
Both Law Professor Chang and the Graduate Student who authored your chosen article to refute the illegal annexation of Hawaii by the US in 1898 was privy to the same evidence and documents that led them to their conclusions. However, whose analysis carries more weight? A law professor or a graduate student? THAT'S THE QUESTION.
In the Court of Flapp_Jackson, it appears an opinion from a graduate student, who has no legal, political, or historical background, outweighs a law professor.
However, in a court of law, I believe everyone would agree a law professor's analysis would be more credible.
ARE YOU DENYING THIS?
You seem to be in denial if you still believe people with credentialed and experienced pasts aren't going to intentionally or unintentionally push stories that just aren't true.
Lawyers are trained to look at a fact pattern and argue BOTH SIDES OF THE ISSUE -- and win.
The Kealoha's were credentialed, experienced experts in the law. Doesn't look like they'll be publishing academic papers in law enforcement or legal journals anytime soon. But you go ahead and worship at the alter of subject matter experts if that makes you feel better.
WHAT I AM STILL WELL AWARE OF is you haven't bothered to address the content of the article. You only attack the messenger -- as if that's an argument.
Transparent denial.
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You seem to be in denial if you still believe people with credentialed and experienced pasts aren't going to intentionally or unintentionally push stories that just aren't true.
Lawyers are trained to look at a fact pattern and argue BOTH SIDES OF THE ISSUE -- and win.
The Kealoha's were credentialed, experienced experts in the law. Doesn't look like they'll be publishing academic papers in law enforcement or legal journals anytime soon. But you go ahead and worship at the alter of subject matter experts if that makes you feel better.
WHAT I AM STILL WELL AWARE OF is you haven't bothered to address the content of the article. You only attack the messenger -- as if that's an argument.
Transparent denial.
You pose the position that Respected University of Hawaii Law Professor Williamson Chang, who is NOT HAWAIIAN by-the-way, is biased because he is an attorney.
By the same token, you don't think the graduate student that wrote his opinion to the same available evidence that Professor Chang has already looked at in his own analysis is not biased as well?
So according to Flapp-Jackson's kangaroo court, Law Professor Chang's reaffirmation of the illegal occupation of Hawaii by the US in 1898 is biased and factually incorrect, while a graduate student's analysis of the situation with no background in law, political science, or history is totally accurate and has no bias at all.
Excuse me, while I leave the Court of Flapp_Jackson.
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You pose the position that Respected University of Hawaii Law Professor Williamson Chang, who is NOT HAWAIIAN by-the-way, is biased because he is an attorney.
By the same token, you don't think the graduate student that wrote his opinion to the same available evidence that Professor Chang has already looked at in his own analysis is not biased as well?
So according to Flapp-Jackson's kangaroo court, Law Professor Chang's reaffirmation of the illegal occupation of Hawaii by the US in 1898 is biased and factually incorrect, while a graduate student's analysis of the situation with no background in law, political science, or history is totally accurate and has no bias at all.
Excuse me, while I leave the Court of Flapp_Jackson.
Learn to read. I posed (posited) the position that you can't trust a lawyer to argue a position without critically looking at the FACTS they offer -- which you apparently refuse to do. Afraid of what you'll find?
Conclusions are not facts. They are opinions supposedly derived from analysis. The facts can be analyzed and interpreted sometimes in more than one way. That's how lawyers make their living. "My client did not mean to grab the reporter's genitals. She merely brushed up against him, and the comments she made about grabbing him were mere rhetoric." Never mind the video proved otherwise. **actual case that just ended involving a woman sexually assaulting a Trump supporter/reporter **
Yeah, lawyers have such a sterling reputation.
You seem angry. Is that always your reaction when your beliefs are challenged? Triggered much? :rofl: :rofl:
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Learn to read. I posed (posited) the position that you can't trust a lawyer to argue a position without critically looking at the FACTS they offer -- which you apparently refuse to do. Afraid of what you'll find?
Conclusions are not facts. They are opinions supposedly derived from analysis. The facts can be analyzed and interpreted sometimes in more than one way. That's how lawyers make their living. "My client did not mean to grab the reporter's genitals. She merely brushed up against him, and the comments she made about grabbing him were mere rhetoric." Never mind the video proved otherwise. **actual case that just ended involving a woman sexually assaulting a Trump supporter/reporter **
Yeah, lawyers have such a sterling reputation.
You seem angry. Is that always your reaction when your beliefs are challenged? Triggered much? :rofl: :rofl:
No facts are in dispute; only the interpretation of them.
In the case of Law Professor Chang vs social work graduate student, I believe it is clear who has the more accurate interpretation of them.
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No facts are in dispute; only the interpretation of them.
In the case of Law Professor Chang vs social work graduate student, I believe it is clear who has the more accurate interpretation of them.
You know what? No one cares what you "believe", as at least some of your beliefs are clearly either blatant lies of blatant ignorance (e.g. your quote that "there is no dispute" regarding the legality of Hawaii "annexation"/statehood, etc.).
Do you still claim, as you previously wrote in this thread, that "There is no dispute that the USA has no legal authority over Hawaii and that Hawaii is illegally being occupied by the USA."? A simple yes or no will do. But of course we all know you won't give the simple answer because the simple answer is that you are a liar, I suppose it is possible that your are that stupid... yeah, you could be.No matter the condition generating it, that statement is FALSE. So much for your "beliefs" and truth values.
Of course facts are in dispute. You lie again. Just read some of the responses to Sai and Chang and you will see that Sai and Chang either lie (by commission or omission) or deliberately distort facts. That is the only way they can make their absurd arguments... if they included all the real facts their case disappears in a puff of absurdity.
Likewise absurd is your claim that "lawyers" should be given more weight than a non-lawyer is arguing a case of facts. A lawyer has no more credibility simply be being a lawyer. None. Your argument it false. FALSE. If being a lawyer makes that person more likely to be telling truth, including in court, how is that in every case in court one side's lawyer(s) lose? Someone, the judge or jury, gave that lawyer less credibility, using common sense to analyze the arguments and facts they present, and conclude that that sides lawyer(s) was either lying or distorting the facts or the (interpretation of the) law.. Same here. Being a lawyer by profession lends zero credibility their claims. Zero. I know you will repeat your argument again and again, but it will still be false then too.
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guys, stop it already
"no dispute" = "settled science"
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The credentials of someone offering an analysis of a particular subject matter is paramount when arguing an issue of that same subject matter.
What are your credentials?
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What are your credentials?
oh no you didn't...
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guys, stop it already
"no dispute" = "settled science"
If ya'll started punching out your arguments in Caps, it might be more believable and settled. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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I think someone needs to look up the word "dispute".
noun
1. a disagreement, argument, or debate.
"a territorial dispute between the two countries"
synonyms: debate, discussion, discourse, disputation, argument, controversy, contention,
disagreement, altercation, falling-out, quarreling, variance, dissension, conflict, friction, strife,
discord, antagonism;
It's rare to see protests over "no dispute". It's also rare to see someone argue "there is no dispute" over facts that, if true, would have resolved the entire issue of Hawaiian annexation long ago.
Obviously, there IS a dispute. That's the only fact over which THERE IS NO DISPUTE.
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oh no you didn't...
heads?
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:thumbsup:
Hawaii could be at the forefront of discoveries such as this....
https://www.cbsnews.com/video/potentially-habitable-super-earth-discovered/ via @CBSNLive
But I fear now Hawaiians will become the butt of jokes in the scientific community. >:(
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I think the Hawaiian protesters are just against any project that must be built on land in Hawaii. And I do agree that TMT is a great long term undertaking which will provide jobs and remove the other smaller Telescopes up on the mountain. It's a good clean tradeoff. Rather see one big one than 5 smaller ones up there. Also, the Governor is really sitting on the fence on this one. He claimed to be Pro science and education and now he is sympathizing with the protesters. His Liberal colors are showing big time.
The Hawaiians should be using their energy to get the Hawaiian home lands that they were promised many moons ago. That is more important than protesting TMT. They should be pushing OHA and the State to get it together and issue out the land they were promised for 1 dollar a yr leases. This would allow Hawaiian families to build their own homes and have a stable place. It is a shame that many generations have died waiting for their home lands to be issued.
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according to the oracles of social.media people like me who are not blood Hawaiian have no say in anything about lands
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Illegal or legal it doesn't even matter USA won and Hawaii is ours. You can assimilate or fight there are your two options. Every country in the entire world was formed the same way. One country makes some excuse and takes over another's land or finds land to take over.
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according to the oracles of social.media people like me who are not blood Hawaiian have no say in anything about lands
Well, there seems to be significant disagreement (aka "dispute") about whether "hawaiian" means blood/DNA race, ethnicity, or "nationality" (descendant of a citizen of the "nation of Hawaii" (aka "kingdom"/"republic"). They conveniently pick and choose which one is appropriate for whatever special race-based, ethnicity-based, or nationality-based special privileges they claim entitlement to in a particular context. Very convenient indeed.
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Illegal or legal it doesn't even matter USA won and Hawaii is ours.
No, it is not. :shaka:
You can assimilate or fight there are your two options.
No, there are more options than what your limited thinking has allowed you to post.
Every country in the entire world was formed the same way. One country makes some excuse and takes over another's land or finds land to take over.
Sorry; the US was a country built on a system of the rule of law (i.e., Constitution, Bill of Rights), despite the many imperialists, globalists, fascists, liberals, and other domestic enemies that infiltrated its levels of government and wreck terror and violence within its own borders and the rest of the World.
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Well, there seems to be significant disagreement (aka "dispute") about whether "hawaiian" means blood/DNA race, ethnicity, or "nationality" (descendant of a citizen of the "nation of Hawaii" (aka "kingdom"/"republic"). They conveniently pick and choose which one is appropriate for whatever special race-based, ethnicity-based, or nationality-based special privileges they claim entitlement to in a particular context. Very convenient indeed.
Why don't you exercise your freedom of speech and just come out and say how you truly feel that you and some others on this forum simply JUST HATE HAWAIIANS.
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Why don't you exercise your freedom of speech and just come out and say how you truly feel that you and some others on this forum simply JUST HATE HAWAIIANS.
That shows how stupid and/or deluded you are. In this case in the sense of making completely false assumptions and allowing those false assumptions to be a premise in your following arguments (as we see in virtually everything else you post about the "illegal annexation" etc.), thus invalidating the entire argument that follows the false premise.
I don't "hate Hawaiians". You are 100% wrong, lying, full of shit, or all three. Apparently in your feeblemindedness brought on by who knows what (hawaiian sovereignty syndrome?), you, like so many on the socialist left, can't imagine that someone can vehemently disagree with someone without that person being "racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic — Islamophobic — you name it". Thus "deplorable". You apparently, like the person using those terms originally, are that stupid and incapable of tolerating dissent from your vaunted holy orthodoxy.
I vehemently disagree with all kinds of people... including those who generally I have a lot of overlap of values and beliefs. I vehemently disagree with many libertarians who espouse certain libertarian policies. I vehemently disagree with Trump and his administration on some policies. I vehemently disagree with some Second Amendment rights advocates on certain issues. Etc., etc., etc. In the case above where you shout "racist" due to being triggered by any opposition to what are actually your racist policies and beliefs, the fact is I oppose the ideas and criminality of those people completely 100% independent of whatever race, ethnicity or nationality they claim. They are simply wrong about the facts and wrong about the values and wrong about breaking the law based upon those values and claiming special-privilege immunity from the laws. If there was a purple Martian saying the same stupid stuff and engaging in criminality, I'd have the exact same comments directed at it, but not because it's a purple Martian, but because it was making false statements and arguments and breaking the law.
So, nothing new, you are a liar.
Now, when are you going to give us the simple yes or no answer as to whether you stand by your claim that "there is no dispute" regarding the entire "annexation" thing?
When are you going to provide us with your credentials that would validate your expertise, which is your own stated criteria for making any relevant statements about the whole of the "annexation" etc. issues?
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That shows how stupid and/or deluded you are. In this case in the sense of making completely false assumptions and allowing those false assumptions to be a premise in your following arguments (as we see in virtually everything else you post about the "illegal annexation" etc.), thus invalidating the entire argument that follows the false premise.
I don't "hate Hawaiians". You are 100% wrong, lying, full of shit, or all three. Apparently in your feeblemindedness brought on by who knows what (hawaiian sovereignty syndrome?), you, like so many on the socialist left, can't imagine that someone can vehemently disagree with someone without that person being "racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic — Islamophobic — you name it". Thus "deplorable". You apparently, like the person using those terms originally, are that stupid and incapable of tolerating dissent from your vaunted holy orthodoxy.
I vehemently disagree with all kinds of people... including those who generally I have a lot of overlap of values and beliefs. I vehemently disagree with many libertarians who espouse certain libertarian policies. I vehemently disagree with Trump and his administration on some policies. I vehemently disagree with some Second Amendment rights advocates on certain issues. Etc., etc., etc. In the case above where you shout "racist" due to being triggered by any opposition to what are actually your racist policies and beliefs, the fact is I oppose the ideas and criminality of those people completely 100% independent of whatever race, ethnicity or nationality they claim. They are simply wrong about the facts and wrong about the values and wrong about breaking the law based upon those values and claiming special-privilege immunity from the laws. If there was a purple Martian saying the same stupid stuff and engaging in criminality, I'd have the exact same comments directed at it, but not because it's a purple Martian, but because it was making false statements and arguments and breaking the law.
So, nothing new, you are a liar.
Now, when are you going to give us the simple yes or no answer as to whether you stand by your claim that "there is no dispute" regarding the entire "annexation" thing?
When are you going to provide us with your credentials that would validate your expertise, which is your own stated criteria for making any relevant statements about the whole of the "annexation" etc. issues?
Stop using the protests against TMT as well as your unending attacks against recognizing the illegal of overthrow of Hawaii by the US in 1898 as a cover for what really in the basis for all your posts against TMT and myself.
YOU HATE HAWAIIANS!!! :thumbsup:
Your emotionally charged posts filled with violent hate harangues and name calling are a dead giveaway.
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Illegal or legal it doesn't even matter USA won and Hawaii is ours.
No, it is not. :shaka:
Please explain
You can assimilate or fight there are your two options.
No, there are more options than what your limited thinking has allowed you to post.
Please explain another option that is not related. FYI arguing some random point from the past about legality is "fighting"
Every country in the entire world was formed the same way. One country makes some excuse and takes over another's land or finds land to take over.
Sorry; the US was a country built on a system of the rule of law (i.e., Constitution, Bill of Rights), despite the many imperialists, globalists, fascists, liberals, and other domestic enemies that infiltrated its levels of government and wreck terror and violence within its own borders and the rest of the World.
I hate to break it to you but every country bends/breaks the rule of law, hell us rebelling against Britain was "unlawful" and that founded our country.
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Why don't you exercise your freedom of speech and just come out and say how you truly feel that you and some others on this forum simply JUST HATE HAWAIIANS.
That's the most immature and irrational thing you've posted.
... and that's no small feat! :rofl:
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I don't hate Hawaiians.
I wish some didn't use race based adjectives in their quest to discredit me or silence my opinion.
I've been called of "Asian privilege" even though I am mixed. People don't bother to ask.
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I don't hate Hawaiians.
I wish some didn't use race based adjectives in their quest to discredit me or silence my opinion.
I've been called of "Asian privilege" even though I am mixed. People don't bother to ask.
I did not direct any comment to you Ren. :shaka:
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I did not direct any comment to you Ren. :shaka:
Yes. You did.
By saying "you and some others on this forum simply JUST HATE HAWAIIANS.," you're leaving it up to us to interpret who you're accusing of hatred.
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Yes. You did.
By saying "you and some others on this forum simply JUST HATE HAWAIIANS.," you're leaving it up to us to interpret who you're accusing of hatred.
Why are you getting excited?
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Why are you getting excited?
Nothing about you excites me. Just calling "balls and strikes" as I see them.
Once again, you ignore the comment only to insult the commenter.
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Nothing about you excites me. Just calling "balls and strikes" as I see them.
Once again, you ignore the comment only to insult the commenter.
Don't be so sensitive; we are all ohana. :shaka:
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Don't be so sensitive; we are all ohana. :shaka:
I have lived in Hawaii nearly twenty years now.
There is a portion of the population that believes
I'm a thief and trespasser. They believe they are
"Hawaiian" and have a superior claim to land
that I earned the right to use, under the law.
Those people are not my Ohana. They are my enemy
and stand opposed to me.
IIRC Kamehameha had a good solution to that.
Aloha.
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All these TMT and other protesters need to remember, IIRC, that one of the Kings Kamehameha, don't know which number, gave away a lot of the land and that is why we have the rich haoles with last names like the Damon, Campbell, Cooke, Castle, Brewer, Davies, Baldwin, to name a few.
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All these TMT and other protesters need to remember, IIRC, that one of the Kings Kamehameha, don't know which number, gave away a lot of the land and that is why we have the rich haoles with last names like the Damon, Campbell, Cooke, Castle, Brewer, Davies, Baldwin, to name a few.
You forgot Parker. They are also still in the business.
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You forgot Parker. They are also still in the business.
That's why I said to name a few. As the kids married and last names changed, we have a lot of wealthy non-Hawaiian families who owe their wealth to a generous Hawaiian King.
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When are you going to provide us with your credentials that would validate your expertise, which is your own stated criteria for making any relevant statements about the whole of the "annexation" etc. issues?
The bold type makes it fact.
And I def don’t hate Hawaiians. I don’t even hate many on this board that I disagree with, who are “parrot”’posters, etc. Although there is this dude with apparent Tourette’s posting regularly. :P
In this case/thread, there’s really no rationalizing with the irrational. Any effort toward having a rational conversation based on reason is wasting breath, bandwidth, etc if they’ve convinced themselves of this utopian pipe dream based on the facts in their mind.
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from another thread:
http://www.hawaiifreepress.com/ArticlesMain/tabid/56/ID/23974/1880-King-Kalakaua-Calls-for-Observatory-to-be-Built-in-Hawaii.aspx (http://www.hawaiifreepress.com/ArticlesMain/tabid/56/ID/23974/1880-King-Kalakaua-Calls-for-Observatory-to-be-Built-in-Hawaii.aspx)
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So TMT applies for permit in another area...back up plan or trolling?
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So TMT applies for permit in another area...back up plan or trolling?
At this point, I think that's a great answer. Hawaii doesn't want it. Leave discovery to another country other than Hawaii, USA.
Enough truck cruises. Enough red shirts (BTW, those shirts aren't cheap , $45). There's some real people suffering out there in the real world and it isn't over a telescope or illegal annexation that occurred 100 years ago. This sh!t is happening NOW!
Aquaman rally the Justice League and save them! Hobbs get into a boosted car!
(https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fcdn3.i-scmp.com%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2Fimages%2Fmethode%2F2017%2F09%2F08%2F4d98d350-93a1-11e7-b116-f4507ff9df92_1320x770_233406.jpg&f=1)
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So TMT applies for permit in another area...back up plan or trolling?
I thought their 2nd choice was the Canary Islands, but Mauna Kea is a distant first, best place in the world, supposedly.
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I thought their 2nd choice was the Canary Islands, but Mauna Kea is a distant first, best place in the world, supposedly.
It's like wanting a 2019 BMW, but your 2nd draft choice car is a 1996 Honda Civic.
Or you wanted an HK, but can't afford it. So you buy a Glock. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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I thought their 2nd choice was the Canary Islands, but Mauna Kea is a distant first, best place in the world, supposedly.
I worked with TMT people.
Basically if they go to the Canary islands,
it is not worth the effort and money.
People here really don't realize
what a unique location we have here.
They are too busy tossing umbilical
cords into a pond.
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It's like wanting a 2019 BMW, but your 2nd draft choice car is a 1996 Honda Civic.
Or you wanted an HK, but can't afford it. So you buy a Glock. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
which is more reliable. i pick the Honda and Glock.
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https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2019/08/06/environmentalists-canary-islands-well-seek-legal-action-stop-tmt-coming-here/ (https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2019/08/06/environmentalists-canary-islands-well-seek-legal-action-stop-tmt-coming-here/) :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: x $1.5B
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This analyst believes the TMT will never be built here and I agree with him.
https://www.civilbeat.org/2019/08/neal-milner-the-doomsday-scenario-on-mauna-kea-wont-ever-happen/
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This analyst believes the TMT will never be built here and I agree with him.
https://www.civilbeat.org/2019/08/neal-milner-the-doomsday-scenario-on-mauna-kea-wont-ever-happen/
We, Hawaiians, are more organized than people give us credit. All of the people who criticized the protestors on the mauna really had no idea just how many of us were up there and, more importantly, the logistical and financial support that poured in from Hawaiians at home and abroad.
Our people have finally awakened, are educated, and armed with the truth. Whether TMT will finally be built is of little meaning in the long-run. This is only the beginning and restoration of our nation is in our sights.
IMUA!
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We, Hawaiians, are more organized than people give us credit. All of the people who criticized the protestors on the mauna really had no idea just how many of us were up there and, more importantly, the logistical and financial support that poured in from Hawaiians at home and abroad.
Our people have finally awakened, are educated, and armed with the truth. Whether TMT will finally be built is of little meaning in the long-run. This is only the beginning and restoration of our nation is in our sights.
IMUA!
The participation has been impressive but what about the native Hawaiians who are for the TMT? I have seen a number and they are hesitant to speak up due to the hateful speech, the peer pressure, and the posts that suggest violence on those who want the telescope.
It continues to be my position that the protestors are picking the wrong hill to die on. There is plenty to protest but they have chosen a poor issue to finally unite behind.
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The participation has been impressive but what about the native Hawaiians who are for the TMT? I have seen a number and they are hesitant to speak up due to the hateful speech, the peer pressure, and the posts that suggest violence on those who want the telescope.
You mean like myself. I never had a serious problem about the furthering of science via telescopes. However, there were more fundamental issues that concerned many Hawaiians than their support of TMT, which resulted in their ultimate solidarity with the majority of Hawaiians who were against TMT.
If you think Hawaiians who were in support of TMT were scared of speaking their mind, that is a very wrong presumption that is very far from the truth. Hawaiians have no problem arguing and fighting with each other, if you have not noticed in recent history.
It continues to be my position that the protestors are picking the wrong hill to die on. There is plenty to protest but they have chosen a poor issue to finally unite behind.
You are correct.
However, TMT has galvanized the Hawaiian consciousness and united our people from all over the globe for the first time in decades, which has now signaled us to pursue our greatest prize.
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However, TMT has galvanized the Hawaiian consciousness and united our people from all over the globe for the first time in decades, which has now signaled us to pursue our greatest prize.
pouring all the issues of the Hawaiian people under a telescope project is conflated.
Meanwhile Oahu is still being dominated by real estate developers and out of control public works project - the rail - is devastating the landscape and taxpayers.
The "movement" via social media is tangible but a far cry from events like the Arab Spring. Like I said earlier, no one is getting killed over this. In a world view there's real shit going on with people suffering, getting killed and detained. This wasn't Rwanda. This isn't Burma. Not even close to Tiananmen Square.
Protestors won with their civil disobedience, the next step to "pursue your greatest prize" is an insurgency. :popcorn:
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The participation has been impressive but what about the native Hawaiians who are for the TMT? I have seen a number and they are hesitant to speak up due to the hateful speech, the peer pressure, and the posts that suggest violence on those who want the telescope.
It continues to be my position that the protestors are picking the wrong hill to die on. There is plenty to protest but they have chosen a poor issue to finally unite behind.
I don't agree with you on other issues often but I agree with you on this statement.
At this point, I wish the TMT would just go somewhere else. I'm tired of the cruises and people claiming to be in distress. I'm tired of people talking over my opinions.
I think it's a missed opportunity and shameful that countries like India and China have backed such a project. It really shows how much progression and intent they have to discover and explore.
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What if Native Hawaiians rallied behind the issues that really plague Native Hawaiians disproportionately? Health problems, crime rates, domestic violence, poverty, and other such issues? Granted those are not physical things to unite around like the TMT but are going to do so much more for Native Hawaiians than fighting a telescope on a mountain. But good thing they get into their lifted trucks getting 10 mpg with the upside-down Hawaiian flag and go on cruises because that really shows they care for the Aina.
Kuleana,
I do know some native hawaiians who have been vocal in their support of the TMT as well. But my main point was more the treatment I have seen from people against the TMT. Granted keyboard warriors on facebook and instagram are probably going to be more tough in their comments than if they were face to face but the sheer number of racist and posts suggesting violence is not tolerant to say the least. So many comments about haole this and that and small their face etc. Its hard to say how many supporters there are who don't speak up. The protestors act like they speak for all Native Hawaiians and only the outsiders want the TMT.
How many native Hawaiians today do you think actually believe in the ancient Hawaiian gods and goddesses? How many actually believe the mountain is truly sacred and worship in the way of their ancestors?
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Still seeing lots of infighting and hundreds of comments about why someone isn’t “Hawaiian enough” because they haven’t made the trip to visit and pay respects to those on Mauna Kea, or aren’t posting enough on social media or speaking out enough...
Personally, the amount of people who have supported those against the TMT has been quite impressive. I think back to why folks didn’t come out in force against some of the State Highways projects I worked in the past. I think main thing is social media and the trendiness of being part of the “awoke” movement, many times even if they didn’t quite have all of the facts behind it. But I also hear from some good friends that it’s the same infighting that has gone on in the past. The ridicule of those just joining the cause/effort being ridiculed or made feeling less by those who have walked the walk for decades.
Like in my project to build a bypass bridge in Lahaina. The vast majority of the community actually was for the bypass. Why? Because their livelihood depended on success of the resorts in West Maui. But lots showed up to community meetings and actually voiced opposition basically because or family pressure to essentially rally against any and all development.
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What if Native Hawaiians rallied behind the issues that really plague Native Hawaiians disproportionately? Health problems, crime rates, domestic violence, poverty, and other such issues? Granted those are not physical things to unite around like the TMT but are going to do so much more for Native Hawaiians than fighting a telescope on a mountain. But good thing they get into their lifted trucks getting 10 mpg with the upside-down Hawaiian flag and go on cruises because that really shows they care for the Aina.
Kuleana,
I do know some native hawaiians who have been vocal in their support of the TMT as well. But my main point was more the treatment I have seen from people against the TMT. Granted keyboard warriors on facebook and instagram are probably going to be more tough in their comments than if they were face to face but the sheer number of racist and posts suggesting violence is not tolerant to say the least. So many comments about haole this and that and small their face etc. Its hard to say how many supporters there are who don't speak up. The protestors act like they speak for all Native Hawaiians and only the outsiders want the TMT.
How many native Hawaiians today do you think actually believe in the ancient Hawaiian gods and goddesses? How many actually believe the mountain is truly sacred and worship in the way of their ancestors?
If you're not Hawaiian, you can't speak about what issues "plague" Hawaiians.
Men can't have an opinion on abortion, because it's a "women's health issue". [never mind it was MEN who decided in favor of Roe v. Wade]
Please refer to the "Rules for Liberals" for more detail.
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What if Native Hawaiians rallied behind the issues that really plague Native Hawaiians disproportionately? Health problems, crime rates, domestic violence, poverty, and other such issues?
Dude, that is sooooooo raciss! You are going to hell for sure...er... I mean wherever it is the superstitious hawaiians believe bad people go when they die (maybe with some kapu aloha assistance).
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How many native Hawaiians today do you think actually believe in the ancient Hawaiian gods and goddesses? How many actually believe the mountain is truly sacred and worship in the way of their ancestors?
If we are looking at this issue from a historical and legal perspective, there should be none. Under the rule of Kamehameha II, the Kapu system was officially abolished, along with the abandoning the worship of all pre-European contact religious deities, and the adoption of Christianity as the unofficial State religion. Although the Kingdom of Hawaii allowed the freedom of religion, most Hawaiians like myself, have since adopted the Christian faith. In the last 20 years or so, however, there has been more Hawaiians who have seem to convert back to worshiping our ancient deities of the past.
As to the question as to how many Hawaiians actually think the mauna is sacred, I am sure those who have begun practicing our ancient religions, the mauna is very sacred to them. However, I would argue the majority of us view the mountain with the same respect as most people would see the Notre-Dame Cathedral.
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Since the anti-TMT protestors have lumped all issues onto this project; it's fair to look at the broader issue of diversifying our economy and increasing access to capital. I think we are digging our own grave. Our economy is so dependent on Fed money and tourism all these people who receive govt. subsidies should see the correlation.
Most other States would welcome a project like this. Free money for the State. What we have shown the world that access to one of our greatest capital - land - is off limits to foreign investors. That brings the next question what other capital resources we have in this State? Agriculture = gone. Priced out by other places in the world. This one unique location in the world is off limits - no compromise. Tourism? Sure. Our State continues to rape that goose. There's only so much she can take till tourists find cheaper alternatives to Hawaii. Federal spending? Hmmm. Junior Senators with nothing but hate for our President and an out of control public works project bleeding money.
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Since the anti-TMT protestors have lumped all issues onto this project; it's fair to look at the broader issue of diversifying our economy and increasing access to capital. I think we are digging our own grave. Our economy is so dependent on Fed money and tourism all these people who receive govt. subsidies should see the correlation.
Most other States would welcome a project like this. Free money for the State. What we have shown the world that access to one of our greatest capital - land - is off limits to foreign investors. That brings the next question what other capital resources we have in this State? Agriculture = gone. Priced out by other places in the world. This one unique location in the world is off limits - no compromise. Tourism? Sure. Our State continues to rape that goose. There's only so much she can take till tourists find cheaper alternatives to Hawaii. Federal spending? Hmmm. Junior Senators with nothing but hate for our President and an out of control public works project bleeding money.
I'm sure I've said this before. I really don't care if the TMT gets built.
I worked on the summit of Mauna Kea for almost ten years.
I have nothing but disgust for Hawaiian culturalism practitioners.
I've watched them. I've had breakfast with them.
They are two faced forked tongued liars. It is all about the money.
TMT will probably move to Spain and might get built.
Hawaiians still here will still be on a wait list controlled by Hawaiians.
You can stare at the "pimples" on the summit and blame that for all
your ills, but the fact is you are stupid and failures.
I'm quite sure Kamehameha would have obliterated you.
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If we are looking at this issue from a historical and legal perspective, there should be none. Under the rule of Kamehameha II, the Kapu system was officially abolished, along with the abandoning the worship of all pre-European contact religious deities, and the adoption of Christianity as the unofficial State religion. Although the Kingdom of Hawaii allowed the freedom of religion, most Hawaiians like myself, have since adopted the Christian faith. In the last 20 years or so, however, there has been more Hawaiians who have seem to convert back to worshiping our ancient deities of the past.
As to the question as to how many Hawaiians actually think the mauna is sacred, I am sure those who have begun practicing our ancient religions, the mauna is very sacred to them. However, I would argue the majority of us view the mountain with the same respect as most people would see the Notre-Dame Cathedral.
I'm not going to insult anybody by insisting that an island that has only been invaded and occupied
for the last 800 years is "ancient".
Ancient is Egyptian old Kingdom!
Another perspective is 13,000 years ago there were no people in the Americas.
Who owns the place now?
People that speak French, Portuguese, Spanish, and English.
In Hawaii what languages are spoken? Regularly
at home. I can understand some Filipino, Spanish, Chinese,
and Japanese words if you don't talk too fast, but maybe only four
Hawaiian words.
That is who won.
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I'm not going to insult anybody by insisting that an island that has only been invaded and occupied
for the last 800 years is "ancient".
Ancient is Egyptian old Kingdom!
Another perspective is 13,000 years ago there were no people in the Americas.
Who owns the place now?
People that speak French, Portuguese, Spanish, and English.
In Hawaii what languages are spoken? Regularly
at home. I can understand some Filipino, Spanish, Chinese,
and Japanese words if you don't talk too fast, but maybe only four
Hawaiian words.
That is who won.
When I first arrived in Hawaii in the early 90s, reports stated that Japanese was the #1 language spoken at home in the islands.
Sometimes it doesn't take an "illegal annexation" to take over a society.
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When I first arrived in Hawaii in the early 90s, reports stated that Japanese was the #1 language spoken at home in the islands.
Sometimes it doesn't take an "illegal annexation" to take over a society.
Yakamashi. Opsec bro.
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Yakamashi. Opsec bro.
Pardon the accent
Jung wa ren!
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.
.........but maybe only four
Hawaiian words.
That is who won.
Let me guess.
Aloha
Mahalo
Pau
and Ainokea. LOL
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Let me guess.
Aloha
Mahalo
Pau
and Ainokea Luau. LOL
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Ainokea was a joke. Other common words that almost everybody who has lived in Hawaii for a couple of years and that groveler probably knows is kane, wahine, tutu, hale, hele, lua, poi and a dozen more.
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Ainokea was a joke. Other common words that almost everybody who has lived in Hawaii for a couple of years and that groveler probably knows is kane, wahine, tutu, hale, hele, lua, poi and a dozen more.
I know. I was focused more on what tourists learn on the plane ride over here, or what they read on the swinging doors of garbage cans ("Mahalo!").
:thumbsup: :geekdanc:
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Ainokea was a joke. Other common words that almost everybody who has lived in Hawaii for a couple of years and that groveler probably knows is kane, wahine, tutu, hale, hele, lua, poi and a dozen more.
OK, you got me there.
I don't know about a dozen more.
I just know the Japanese word for going Pee
is nearly the same as Chinese Mandarin for
"teacher". You just have to just screw it up a
little bit.
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I'm sure I've said this before. I really don't care if the TMT gets built.
I worked on the summit of Mauna Kea for almost ten years.
I have nothing but disgust for Hawaiian culturalism practitioners.
I've watched them. I've had breakfast with them.
They are two faced forked tongued liars. It is all about the money.
TMT will probably move to Spain and might get built.
Hawaiians still here will still be on a wait list controlled by Hawaiians.
You can stare at the "pimples" on the summit and blame that for all
your ills, but the fact is you are stupid and failures.
I'm quite sure Kamehameha would have obliterated you.
Kamehameha the Great killed a lot of people, but would have done everything in his power to restore his nation if he were alive today.
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Kamehameha the Great killed a lot of people, but would have done everything in his power to restore his nation if he were alive today.
Purely hypothetical conjecture.
Did you ever meet Kamehameha the Great? If not, you have no way to know who he really was nor what he would have, or would not have, done in a given situation.
He may have been given the Dole lands and been happy to have the US annex his "kingdom." Much easier than killing people to take their lands.
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Some protesters now breaking FCC laws and challenging them to do something about it.
https://www.bigislandvideonews.com/2019/08/04/video-mauna-kea-radio-broadcasts-defy-fcc/
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Some protesters now breaking FCC laws and challenging them to do something about it.
https://www.bigislandvideonews.com/2019/08/04/video-mauna-kea-radio-broadcasts-defy-fcc/
FCC enforcement is usually a fine or letter to stop doing whatever you're doing.
Big whoop.
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Still breaking the law and getting away with it.
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Still breaking the law and getting away with it.
what's a nation with out arms to defend itself with?
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Still breaking the law and getting away with it.
Are you sure? FCC violations have to be investigated first. It could take months before anyone knows if they've "gotten away with it."
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I didn’t say gotten, I said getting. For now anyway. In the old CB radio days the FCC would come down heavy on those who boosted their radios.
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FCC enforcement is usually a fine or letter to stop doing whatever you're doing.
Big whoop.
Would be funny as fuck if they came in with tanks and ran over the tent, destroying all the equipment after chasing them all out.
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If we are looking at this issue from a historical and legal perspective, there should be none. Under the rule of Kamehameha II, the Kapu system was officially abolished, along with the abandoning the worship of all pre-European contact religious deities, and the adoption of Christianity as the unofficial State religion. Although the Kingdom of Hawaii allowed the freedom of religion, most Hawaiians like myself, have since adopted the Christian faith. In the last 20 years or so, however, there has been more Hawaiians who have seem to convert back to worshiping our ancient deities of the past.
As to the question as to how many Hawaiians actually think the mauna is sacred, I am sure those who have begun practicing our ancient religions, the mauna is very sacred to them. However, I would argue the majority of us view the mountain with the same respect as most people would see the Notre-Dame Cathedral.
I must give you credit as you seem well informed on the history.
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Gee, who coulda guessed this? Apparently not Ige or Lyin' Harry or absent Ferreira...
Those highly unfavorable (53%, two and a half times as many as approve) numbers for Ige mean that even most of the people that voted for him are against him. What an ass. His cowardly capitulation to the superstitious racist criminals is only shining a further light on his total incompetence.
Civil Beat Poll: Strong Support For TMT But Little Love For Ige
https://www.civilbeat.org/2019/08/civil-beat-poll-strong-support-for-tmt-but-little-love-for-ige/
By a more than 2-to-1 margin — 64% to 31% — of registered voters in Hawaii who were polled say they favor building the state-of-the-art telescope, most of them strongly in support. Only 3% say they are unsure while another 3% say the issue does not matter to them.
They also do not like how Gov. David Ige has handled the TMT issue.
Ige said in June that the state had issued a “notice to proceed” on the project, and last month said construction would begin July 15. When that didn’t happen, the governor issued an emergency proclamation for Mauna Kea that he later rescinded.
Only 21% of those surveyed have a positive opinion of the governor’s leadership on the issue compared to 53% who hold negative views.
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Gee, who coulda guessed this? Apparently not Ige or Lyin' Harry or absent Ferreira...
Those highly unfavorable (53%, two and a half times as many as approve) numbers for Ige mean that even most of the people that voted for him are against him. What an ass. His cowardly capitulation to the superstitious racist criminals is only shining a further light on his total incompetence.
Civil Beat Poll: Strong Support For TMT But Little Love For Ige
https://www.civilbeat.org/2019/08/civil-beat-poll-strong-support-for-tmt-but-little-love-for-ige/
By a more than 2-to-1 margin — 64% to 31% — of registered voters in Hawaii who were polled say they favor building the state-of-the-art telescope, most of them strongly in support. Only 3% say they are unsure while another 3% say the issue does not matter to them.
They also do not like how Gov. David Ige has handled the TMT issue.
Ige said in June that the state had issued a “notice to proceed” on the project, and last month said construction would begin July 15. When that didn’t happen, the governor issued an emergency proclamation for Mauna Kea that he later rescinded.
Only 21% of those surveyed have a positive opinion of the governor’s leadership on the issue compared to 53% who hold negative views.
Somehow many people fail to understand how making a commitment to something like construction involves significant costs, especially in Hawaii where not everyone doing the work is local. How many people do you think live on the Big Island are actually doing the construction, supervision, etc. for such a specialized project?
When Ige gave the project the green light, he was giving assurances the construction would, not just could, proceed. His lack of enforcing the laws of the state is beyond incompetence. I wouldn't be surprised if the tax payers have to foot the bill for all the money lost waiting on the state to clear the roads -- that's on top of the direct costs already for law enforcement (or lack of), trips to the Big Island to show they are "doing something", and loss of normal economic activity for people working there.
Governors are supposed to govern, not be held hostage after a decade of working to the final decision. The decision was made. People trusted Ige. Now it's a total cluster.
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I guess both Ige and Caldwell don't care how popular they are since both cannot run for their respective positions again. Hey, maybe Caldwell will run for Gov and Ige for Mayor.
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Read it and weep. It's only a matter of time. The socialist loons amassing at the border and waiting for the geezers to die off. Who knows how much more of the state will be turned over to the whims of the superstitious racists? One things for sure, the ability to exercise Second Amendment-protected rights will wither and perhaps die altogether. I won't be here to see it, but I hope they get what they deserve.
(https://i.imgur.com/mCSN9Wy.png)
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The most ridiculous thing I have seen going on up there is the State and LEOs asking the protesters permission to pass their blockade.
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The most ridiculous thing I have seen going on up there is the State and LEOs asking the protesters permission to pass their blockade.
I guess they have read the evidence and have assented to as to whom has the rightful jurisdiction on the mauna.
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I guess they have read the evidence and have assented to as to whom has the rightful jurisdiction on the mauna.
Yeah. That HAS to be it.
:wacko:
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Will taxpayers ultimately pay for the mounting cost for
agencies dealing with the conflict on Mauna Kea?
Video:
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/video/2019/08/08/will-taxpayers-ultimately-pay-mounting-cost-agencies-dealing-with-conflict-mauna-kea/
Hawaii County council members say they were surprised to see how much the Big Island has spent over a two week period.
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I guess they have read the evidence and have assented to as to whom has the rightful jurisdiction on the mauna.
they could have their own ICBMs along with their college and radio station.
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Will taxpayers ultimately pay for the mounting cost for
agencies dealing with the conflict on Mauna Kea?
Video:
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/video/2019/08/08/will-taxpayers-ultimately-pay-mounting-cost-agencies-dealing-with-conflict-mauna-kea/
We already paying for these happily unemployed people's EBT cards and Sec 8 housing.
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The superstitious racist criminal liars have no shame... typical. The will lie about anything to promote their narrative of victimology.
[To see the actual photo]: https://www.ilind.net/2019/08/07/a-bit-of-fake-news-from-the-protectors/
A bit of fake news from the protectors
Posted on August 7, 2019 by Ian Lind |
Perhaps that headline is a bit too strong. Perhaps not meant as fake news, but clearly this photo is an example of a very creative, fictional recreation of a past event. The photo is real. The story is not.
This photo surfaced on Facebook yesterday in a post apparently aimed at “protectors” of Mauna Kea.
The caption tells a tale.
PROTECTORS FROM 1974 NEAR MAUNA KEA ROAD GOING UP WAIKI’I ROAD – one of the first stand off’s regarding the telescopes.
Uncle Sonny Kaniho, Uncle Andrew Akau along with almost all the Parker Ranch workers & there families, this is one of my first memories of my daddy standing to stop the trucks from bringing up the stuff for build the telescopes.
It does seem to have struck a chord. By early this morning, it had drawn 100 comments and had been shared over 1,000 times.
It is indeed a photo of Sonny Kaniho and Andrew Akau in 1974. No offense meant, but the caption is fiction. The photo has absolutely nothing to do with any telescopes, or stopping trucks from going up the road. That’s definitely a false narrative.
How do I know that it’s a fake story? It’s my photo. It contains my digital watermark. I took the photo back in 1974, during a protest high up on the Big Island’s Parker Ranch.
Kaniho was protesting policies of the Hawaiian Homes Commission and Department of Hawaiian Home Lands that resulted in land being leased to private interests while thousands of Hawaiians sat on waiting lists for years, even decades, for homestead leases on some of the same lands.
Kaniho’s protest involved removing a gate to a Parker Ranch pasture which was held under a lease from DHHL, entering the area, and symbolically claiming it for himself and other Hawaiians who were waiting endlessly for land.
I was among a group of supporters who accompanied Kaniho and were cited for trespassing.
The case was heard later in 1974 at the courthouse in Waimea. During the trial, it was disclosed that the lease on that parcel had expired and that it technically was now public land, not Parker Ranch land. Trespass charges were dismissed.
A small but important event in the history of Hawaiian activism. But it had nothing at all to do with telescopes or protecting Mauna Kea. That story was a work of creative fiction, or perhaps just memory being recreated for modern times.
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A few more examples of blatant lying by the superstitious racists in service of their false narrative of victimhood.
Here provided by Ken Conklin in response to Mr. Lind's article above:
Hawaiian sovereignty activists have a long history of successfully perpetrating fake news for political purposes. Here are 3 heavily documented examples, significant because of the widespread and apparently authoritative (ab)use of the falsehoods:
——
The myth of the shredded Hawaiian flag — a false claim that the Hawaiian flag removed from Iolani Palace on annexation day August 12, 1898 was cut up into pieces distributed to the annexationists as souvenirs of their victory over the Hawaiian people
Why the false story of the shredded hawaiian flag is important; how the story got started, what it says, and evidence that it is widespread (including senator Akaka telling the falsehood on the floor of the Senate in 1990 and senator Inouye telling the falsehood on the floor of the Senate in 1993); Evidence that the story is false; proof that some activists choose to perpetuate this story, knowing it is false, just to stir up anger over alleged historical grievances (actual dialogue among sovereignty activists during the annexation’s centennial commemoration in 1998). Webpage at
https://tinyurl.com/oj7n4m
———
Twisting History — Reverend Kaleo Patterson used a Grover Cleveland proclamation from 1894 which he knew was fake, cited it as fact, and used it as the basis for a media blitz in 2006 in Hawaii and on the mainland calling for a national day of prayer for restoration of Native Hawaiians and repentance for the overthrow of the monarchy. He repeated his local and mainland propaganda campaign in 2007 and pushed a resolution through the Hawaii legislature citing the joke proclamation as real. In 2008 the Honolulu Star-Bulletin published a story describing the Cleveland proclamation as a fact and refused to publish a correction. In 2010 Patterson made a trip to Caldwell N.J. (tomb of Grover Cleveland) in furtherance of his hoax, where the town council gave him a check for $2920 to defray his expenses.
https://tinyurl.com/k38tm
4-page flyer poking fun at the legislature for passing Patterson’s fake-news resolution, including proof that Grover Cleveland’s alleged proclamation was a Republican newspaper’s sarcasm against Cleveland rather than a tue proclamation:
https://tinyurl.com/2tj5jl
——-
The O’ahu weekly newspaper “Midweek” published a major article in 2 parts over a 2 week period asserting that Mauna Ala (Royal Mausoleum) was exempted from the Organic Act and remains the sovereign land of the Kingdom of Hawaii where the laws of the U.S. and State of Hawaii do not apply. The article is copied in full to show that the claim is asserted as serious fact, and then that claim is debunked with strong evidence.
https://tinyurl.com/5rtmy
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We already paying for these happily unemployed people's EBT cards and Sec 8 housing.
but why would they need housing if they claim Mauna Kea?
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but why would they need housing if they claim Mauna Kea?
Because it is usually cold, windy and desolate. Not a place people would like to live.
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Because it is usually cold, windy and desolate. Not a place people would like to live.
Good thing their gods and goddesses are not effected by such mundane matters.
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I was happy to see a pro TMT ad on TV this morning. It featured a native Hawaiian who has been a navigator using the stars like the ancient Hawaiians and sailing with the Hokulea for the past 40 years. They need to put out many more of these ads to show the majority are in favor of TMT.
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KSSK also running a pro TMT add with a young aspiring astronomer of Hawaiian decent.
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Letter in today's Tribune-Herald:
The claim game
It is an indisputable fact that many years ago a group of foreigners came to the peaceful Hawaiian Islands and overthrew their local governments and way of life, enslaving them and taking away all of their rights to self-rule.
They did this with the help of waves of their fellow foreigners, overpowering the Hawaiian people with their “might makes right” philosophy and many acts of violence. Arguably, the Hawaiian people have never recovered from this oppression.
Unless one agrees that “might makes right,” these foreign oppressors cannot claim any legal rights or moral standing in these islands, and the government they erected on the ashes of the real Hawaiian people’s culture has no claims to the control of any land or assets here.
Of course, these foreign invaders were the Tahitians, and the government they imposed on the peaceful Hawaiians was the slave state of Kamehameha.
No one who respects the real Hawaiian people can claim any cultural or religious rights to Maunakea or anything else in Hawaii based on the results of a 14-year war of domination of Kamehameha, who the real Hawaiians did not respect or want as their king, often fighting hand-to-hand with his racist warriors and being killed or enslaved.
Truth matters.
Carl Oguss
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What is a “real” Hawaiian? One with 100% Hawaiian ancestry? Or one who “feels” Hawaiian, like Walter Ritte who has more Caucasian than Hawaiian.
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What is a “real” Hawaiian? One with 100% Hawaiian ancestry? Or one who “feels” Hawaiian, like Walter Ritte who has more Caucasian than Hawaiian.
i drank Hawaiian Punch for years and years growing up. That should qualify me!
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What is a “real” Hawaiian? One with 100% Hawaiian ancestry? Or one who “feels” Hawaiian, like Walter Ritte who has more Caucasian than Hawaiian.
For the purposes of Mr. Oguss's commentary, he's referring to the people inhabiting these islands prior to the arrival of the wave of invaders (of whom the current "activists" are likely almost all descended from, if at all descended from inhabitants prior to several hundred years ago) who killed and/or enslaved all those prior residents... thus making a mockery of their absurd claims that they are entitled to special treatment and control of all of Hawaii because they were the "original" inhabitants.
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My mom is Tahitian.
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Letter in today's Tribune-Herald:
The claim game
It is an indisputable fact that many years ago a group of foreigners came to the peaceful Hawaiian Islands and overthrew their local governments and way of life, enslaving them and taking away all of their rights to self-rule.
They did this with the help of waves of their fellow foreigners, overpowering the Hawaiian people with their “might makes right” philosophy and many acts of violence. Arguably, the Hawaiian people have never recovered from this oppression.
Unless one agrees that “might makes right,” these foreign oppressors cannot claim any legal rights or moral standing in these islands, and the government they erected on the ashes of the real Hawaiian people’s culture has no claims to the control of any land or assets here.
Of course, these foreign invaders were the Tahitians, and the government they imposed on the peaceful Hawaiians was the slave state of Kamehameha.
No one who respects the real Hawaiian people can claim any cultural or religious rights to Maunakea or anything else in Hawaii based on the results of a 14-year war of domination of Kamehameha, who the real Hawaiians did not respect or want as their king, often fighting hand-to-hand with his racist warriors and being killed or enslaved.
Truth matters.
Carl Oguss
Just some added notes.
"Kamehameha soon used his relationships with traders to build up an armory of Western weapons,
trading Hawaii's much coveted sandalwood for arms. Over time, he and his army were able to use
their superior firepower to take charge of most of the Hawaiian islands"
Kamehameha would not have been able to defeat
his opponents without us.
We are part of Hawaiian history,
not invaders.
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Just some added notes.
"Kamehameha soon used his relationships with traders to build up an armory of Western weapons,
trading Hawaii's much coveted sandalwood for arms. Over time, he and his army were able to use
their superior firepower to take charge of most of the Hawaiian islands"
Kamehameha would not have been able to defeat
his opponents without us.
We are part of Hawaiian history,
not invaders.
all these facts should be posted on social media...because then it would be news...
well, in short bullet comments because the attention span and reading capability of some people are measured in grains....
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all these facts should be posted on social media...because then it would be news...
well, in short bullet comments because the attention span and reading capability of some people are measured in grains....
Ren
This is part of my "social media".
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Ren
This is part of my "social media".
#metoo. I no do Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, LinkedIn, etc. 2A Hawaii is the only place I post anything.
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Just some added notes.
We are part of Hawaiian history,
not invaders.
Yes, you are a part of Hawaiian history. You are residents who are residing in an illegally occupied nation.
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Letter in today's Tribune-Herald:
The claim game
It is an indisputable fact that many years ago a group of foreigners came to the peaceful Hawaiian Islands and overthrew their local governments and way of life, enslaving them and taking away all of their rights to self-rule.
They did this with the help of waves of their fellow foreigners, overpowering the Hawaiian people with their “might makes right” philosophy and many acts of violence. Arguably, the Hawaiian people have never recovered from this oppression.
Really, where did this author get this information? A one-sided American history book?
Unless one agrees that “might makes right,” these foreign oppressors cannot claim any legal rights or moral standing in these islands, and the government they erected on the ashes of the real Hawaiian people’s culture has no claims to the control of any land or assets here.
Of course, these foreign invaders were the Tahitians, and the government they imposed on the peaceful Hawaiians was the slave state of Kamehameha.
This author really likes twisting the truth. Did he come up with this commentary by himself?
This author should tread carefully when he speaks of Kamehameha the Great.
No one who respects the real Hawaiian people can claim any cultural or religious rights to Maunakea or anything else in Hawaii based on the results of a 14-year war of domination of Kamehameha, who the real Hawaiians did not respect or want as their king, often fighting hand-to-hand with his racist warriors and being killed or enslaved.
And how does he know that? Did he go back in history and tracked down the aboriginal population of these islands and asked them their views of Kamehameha the Great?
Truth matters.
Yes it does, but this author definitely does not know the truth.
Carl Oguss
Oh, by-the-way, if you really want to belittle Hawaiian history and insult Kamehameha the Great, you need to do better than post the opinions of a psychology professor and owner of the East Hawaii Dog Psychology Center.
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Blah blah blah
So, are you going to be writing a scathing letter to the Tribune-Herald, too? Maybe you should be attacking -- I don't know .... maybe -- THE SOURCE of the article and not someone who simply shared the article.
Being triggered can be disorienting, but you should reconsider whether you are arguing for your perspective of THE ISSUE, or simply arguing with the person posting the comment.
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Yes, you are a part of Hawaiian history. You are residents who are residing in an illegally occupied nation.
The exact same thing is true of all Hawaiians residing here if we grant that the nation is illegally occupied.
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Blah, Blah, Blah
Yeah, I am tired of your obvious hatred of anything Hawaiian too.
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Yeah, I am tired of your obvious hatred of anything Hawaiian too.
Hatred? You say that like you believe I even care. :sleeping:
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The exact same thing is true of all Hawaiians residing here if we grant that the nation is illegally occupied.
Coming from a self-admitted admirer of former President Barack Obama, I am surprised you are still posting on a pro-2A forum.
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Hatred? You say that like you believe I even care. :sleeping:
Exactly my point. Let all see that you do hate all Hawaiians.
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Exactly my point. Let all see that you do hate all Hawaiians.
That's a strong accusation. I assume you have more than a personal, racist, biased opinion to base that on?
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That's a strong accusation. I assume you have more than a personal, racist, biased opinion to base that on?
It does not take a Hawaiian to read your and only SOME others' posts on this thread to see the very intense hatred towards Hawaiians, their cultural/religious beliefs, and quest to restore their nation from illegal occupation.
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(https://i.imgur.com/k2UMFro.jpg)
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It does not take a Hawaiian to read your and only SOME others' posts on this thread to see the very intense hatred towards Hawaiians, their cultural/religious beliefs, and quest to restore their nation from illegal occupation.
It does not take a genius to read your posts on this thread to see the very intense hatred towards non-Hawaiians who don't placate those who use Hawaiian cultural/religious beliefs as excuses for illegal conduct, and who don't agree the STATE is illegally occupied.
Typical. "If you don't agree with me, you must hate all Hawaiians."
Your irrational posts are really starting to show a pattern of major emotional distress.
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Ok, I think I got it figured out. A real Hawaiian is actually a Tahitian. Language is similar. A Tahitian friend of mine knows the meaning of a lot of Hawaiian words and names because of their similarities. Centuries ago people from Tahiti and a few other South Pacific islands discovered and started populating these islands and became the Hawaiian people.
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It does not take a genius to read your posts on this thread to see the very intense hatred towards non-Hawaiians who don't placate those who use Hawaiian cultural/religious beliefs as excuses for illegal conduct, and who don't agree the STATE is illegally occupied.
Typical. "If you don't agree with me, you must hate all Hawaiians."
Your irrational posts are really starting to show a pattern of major emotional distress.
You can insult me and the prevailing beliefs of Hawaiians, but you can't mask your incessant attacks on the Hawaiians who protest TMT, who are also working to end the illegal occupation of Hawaii, as well as your admiration of former President Barack Obama.
I still can't get over your positive feelings for anti-gun President Obama.
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No one hates Hawaiians. Some don't agree with your argument about this illegal occupation.
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No one hates Hawaiians. Some don't agree with your argument about this illegal occupation.
With all due respect, Ren, I know you disagree with many positions I take; but you do so without using those issues as a cover for something else. I know you do not hate Hawaiians, but I can't say the same for SOME OTHERS who have posted in this thread.
In this thread, you have to admit that there were some posters that crossed the line between offering an opposing view towards the protests to TMT as well as the issue of Hawaii being illegally occupied by the US and using those two items as a pretext to vent their true hatred for Hawaiians and anything they stand for.
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Posters who crosses the line? Yup. The very one who always replies in bold... enough already. We got it...
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Posters who crosses the line? Yup. The very one who always replies in bold... enough already. We got it...
Just one second.
I am not saying you are doing it, but I am not the one of some in this thread who use PROFANITY and RACIAL ATTACKS to get their message across. I have presented differing Hawaiian positions, but I HAVE NEVER BEEN UNCIVIL OR THREATENING TO ANYONE.
I can't say the same for some of the replies I received in this thread.
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You can insult me and the prevailing beliefs of Hawaiians, but you can't mask your incessant attacks on the Hawaiians who protest TMT, who are also working to end the illegal occupation of Hawaii, as well as your admiration of former President Barack Obama.
I still can't get over your positive feelings for anti-gun President Obama.
You've gone further down the path of insanity than I hoped.
Please seek professional help. You're not well. I mean that sincerely.
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Long and short:
Sovereignty is a pipe dream.
The Hawaiians feel like TMT is a unifying cause for the bigger cause, but put all the different groups in a room and they can’t agree on a dang thing.
Dept. of interior tried it twice. Got no where in dialog.
Kau Inoa?
Hawaiian Constitutional Convention ?
Nope.
Just damn the Man and give us back our sovereign independent Kingdom/Republic. (Can’t agree on Kingdom or Republic)
Pipe Dream.
And I like Hawaiians. Went to Waimanalo High School.
Re: TMT:
1.) Rule of Law. Lawbreakers should be dealt with accordingly. They can protest on the side of the road or at the Capitol but they shouldn’t be able to block the road and break the law. (Illegal American Law....hey that’s the world and reality we’re living in. Basically lump it or protest from jail if your going to break the law)
2.) it’s a telescope. Once it’s built it’ll sit there quietly and respect the mountain.
Just my opinion.
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You've gone further down the path of insanity than I hoped.
Please seek professional help. You're not well. I mean that sincerely.
Thanks for your concern.
I could suggest similar treatment for yourself, given your secret admiration of Punahou's most famous graduate, Barack Obama; but if you like him, that's your business.
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Thanks for your concern.
I could suggest similar treatment for yourself, given your secret admiration of Punahou's most famous graduate, Barack Obama; but if you like him, that's your business.
You're confused.
:stopjack:
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It does not take a Hawaiian to read your and only SOME others' posts on this thread to see the very intense hatred towards Hawaiians, their cultural/religious beliefs, and quest to restore their nation from illegal occupation.
https://youtu.be/aEhjFKunNW0
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lotsa cute trucks with colorful, pretty flags today...Toyota Tacomas seem to be pretty popular
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TI8O0DcwZ8Y
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"So im against the TMT and understand all points made BUT what about the fact that they want to build a telescope near an almost active volcano (Mauna Loa).. wouldnt using dynamite near a volcano be very dangerous and unpredictable?? Ive never EVER heard of anyone building or using dynamite near a volcano that's near another volcano (kilauea) which until recently was flowing prettyy heavy. Does anyone know the "Science" of using dynamite near a volcano??? I once watched a documentary that said if Mauna loa erupted it would cause a Tsunami that would wipe out the island chain in minutes with the wave going OVER diamond head.... any thoughts?? Someone who understands geology please helppp"
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"So im against the TMT and understand all points made BUT what about the fact that they want to build a telescope near an almost active volcano (Mauna Loa).. wouldnt using dynamite near a volcano be very dangerous and unpredictable?? Ive never EVER heard of anyone building or using dynamite near a volcano that's near another volcano (kilauea) which until recently was flowing prettyy heavy. Does anyone know the "Science" of using dynamite near a volcano??? I once watched a documentary that said if Mauna loa erupted it would cause a Tsunami that would wipe out the island chain in minutes with the wave going OVER diamond head.... any thoughts?? Someone who understands geology please helppp"
I see stuff similar to that all the time and just hope and pray that it is satire posted by our side to mock the stupidity of so many of the nearly-illiterate "progressives"... but alas, fear that it is indeed genuine stupidity on display. And, if it is real, we don't have a chance.
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"So im against the TMT and understand all points made BUT what about the fact that they want to build a telescope near an almost active volcano (Mauna Loa).. wouldnt using dynamite near a volcano be very dangerous and unpredictable?? Ive never EVER heard of anyone building or using dynamite near a volcano that's near another volcano (kilauea) which until recently was flowing prettyy heavy. Does anyone know the "Science" of using dynamite near a volcano??? I once watched a documentary that said if Mauna loa erupted it would cause a Tsunami that would wipe out the island chain in minutes with the wave going OVER diamond head.... any thoughts?? Someone who understands geology please helppp"
maybe you could call someone at UH for some info that would calm your nerves
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So, no dynamite was used to build the TWELVE previous telescope observatories?
Since the Astronomy Precinct was established on Mauna Kea in 1967, there have been no eruptions of Mauna Kea. There are 5 volcanoes on Hawaii Island:
Kilauea
Mauna Loa
Hualālai
Mauna Kea
Kohala
The first three are active, Mauna Kea is dormant, and Kohala is extinct.
Mauna Kea last erupted 6,000 to 4,000 years ago and is now considered dormant.
This information is freely available on the Internet. No need to consult UH, USGS or your local Kahuna.
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According to news releases a few weeks ago, no TNT or any other kind of explosive will be used in the construction of the TMT.
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So, no dynamite was used to build the TWELVE previous telescope observatories?
There are 5 volcanoes on Hawaii Island:
Kilauea
Mauna Loa
Hualālai
The first three are active, Mauna Kea is dormant, and Kohala is extinct.
This information is freely available on the Internet. No need to consult UH, USGS or your local Kahuna.
USGS available on the Internet :rofl: :rofl:
https://pubs.usgs.gov/of/2007/1284/pdf/OF7-1284_508.pdf
Personally, I've been watching Kilauea's "Hilina Slump" for about 12 years. :sleeping:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hilina_Slump
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My subdivision is located between Kilauea and Mauna Loa. May be I get chance for own beachfront property if the Hilina Slump breaks off into the ocean.
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My subdivision is located between Kilauea and Mauna Loa. May be I get chance for own beachfront property if the Hilina Slump breaks off into the ocean.
It is the following tsunami you got to worry about.
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maybe you could call someone at UH for some info that would calm your nerves
Not only that, but what if the nuclear core goes critical and detonates. :rofl:
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tie your shoe lace!
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I'm a TMT supporter, and also support the right to protest (but not block the road).
On the plus side, I like to see Hawaiians use their 1st amendment right to get out and protest and come together as a group. Most of them are respectable and I appreciate that.
Lots of negatives though. Some of them are very stupid, rude, racist, and aggressive. It really hurts the cause and the good Hawaiians have to police their own people and help them to get a better life instead of living in the victim hood mentality. It reminds me of the ghettos on the mainland where that ingrained victim hood mentality prevents them from living a better life even though there are lots of opportunities for them. They should be getting a better education, some of which the TMT provides and better jobs which TMT also provides. It's scary to think that these people want Hawaiian sovereignty and want to rule the islands when they can't even take care of themselves.
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I'm a TMT supporter, and also support the right to protest (but not block the road).
On the plus side, I like to see Hawaiians use their 1st amendment right to get out and protest and come together as a group. Most of them are respectable and I appreciate that.
Lots of negatives though. Some of them are very stupid, rude, racist, and aggressive. It really hurts the cause and the good Hawaiians have to police their own people and help them to get a better life instead of living in the victim hood mentality. It reminds me of the ghettos on the mainland where that ingrained victim hood mentality prevents them from living a better life even though there are lots of opportunities for them. They should be getting a better education, some of which the TMT provides and better jobs which TMT also provides. It's scary to think that these people want Hawaiian sovereignty and want to rule the islands when they can't even take care of themselves.
zippz goes full rayciss! Or tells the truth. You decide.
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zippz goes full rayciss! Or tells the truth. You decide.
Truth, sometimes it hurts..... :-\
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zippz goes full rayciss! Or tells the truth. You decide.
I believe in equal opportunity where all races have their idiots.
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Get your official protector shirts here: https://honolulu.craigslist.org/oah/clo/d/keaau-kiai-mauna-kea-shirts-hoodies-hats/6954764626.html (https://honolulu.craigslist.org/oah/clo/d/keaau-kiai-mauna-kea-shirts-hoodies-hats/6954764626.html)
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Get your official protector shirts here: https://honolulu.craigslist.org/oah/clo/d/keaau-kiai-mauna-kea-shirts-hoodies-hats/6954764626.html (https://honolulu.craigslist.org/oah/clo/d/keaau-kiai-mauna-kea-shirts-hoodies-hats/6954764626.html)
Only $44 for the long sleeve? I'll get seven of those please. Where's the damn woven reed canoe hat? And why did that guy quit wearing it after the first few days?
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Get your official protector shirts here: https://honolulu.craigslist.org/oah/clo/d/keaau-kiai-mauna-kea-shirts-hoodies-hats/6954764626.html (https://honolulu.craigslist.org/oah/clo/d/keaau-kiai-mauna-kea-shirts-hoodies-hats/6954764626.html)
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:rofl:
The back of the shirt says, "we're not going anywhere"
Translation: "We don't want progress or scientific research here, but we need cell phones, facebook, Instagram, craigslist, bootleg radio station, television coverage, the road that the government built for us, cars and pickup trucks that were designed by oppressive white men,"
Any life form, from viruses, to insects, to people will go extinct if they don't adapt. Those people will sit there and we are all paying for this circus.
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Lots of negatives though. Some of them are very stupid, rude, racist, and aggressive.
You are right on point. There are a number of ill-informed Hawaiians who use racist arguments to get their point across.
It really hurts the cause and the good Hawaiians have to police their own people and help them to get a better life instead of living in the victim hood mentality.
Yes, it is a never-ending battle for educated Hawaiians to educate those Hawaiians with lower educational opportunities.
It reminds me of the ghettos on the mainland where that ingrained victim hood mentality prevents them from living a better life even though there are lots of opportunities for them. They should be getting a better education, some of which the TMT provides and better jobs which TMT also provides.
You can blame the Democrats that have been in-power for that.
It's scary to think that these people want Hawaiian sovereignty and want to rule the islands when they can't even take care of themselves.
It is not just the lower educated or non-professional Hawaiians that wish restoration of our nation. Most who are working towards the restoration of our nation are highly educated and working professionals. That is why most people do not hear the calls for the restoration of the Hawaiian nation from this group; we are busy earning a living. :thumbsup:
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Was discussing TMT and other stuff with a friend last night at a BBQ. He's actually a friend of a friend. He isn't well off nor well educated. His financial and living situation is actually down right crappy. However, he is able to discuss his beliefs and values in a coherent and rational way. He sometimes goes off into the "illegal occupation" and "Hawaii gov't as a puppet" angle at times. Anyways, I don't feel that it's necessarily about those with formal educational opportunities and not. Education in general can happen in many ways, and not necessarily the formal/traditional route. Yes, his lack of education does tend to get himself into trouble (such as with his divorce) as he tends to let his emotion override reason and will say stuff that ends up being detrimental. I see much of that in this thread and what I've read about TMT issue in general. In the case of my friend, he does seem to be prone to propaganda and being swayed by conjecture, but he is intelligent enough to be open minded and take a pragmatic approach, as opposed to a radical approach.
Yes, I can see much mockery of those who are choosing voice their opposition of TMT. I have quite a few close friends who are staunch in their opposition to TMT and see some of the comments on their social media. Personally, I avoid discussing it, same as religion and politics. It's already a very charged issue and one which I really don't feel strongly either way.
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I don’t care one way or the other whether or not it gets built either, as I have no “skin in the game” so to speak. What bothers me is that an illegal blockade is being allowed when TMT has a valid permit. Imagine if you bought a vacant lot and got a valid building permit for a home, but people who used that lot to go to the beach did not want you to build your home because it would block access to their favorite fishing spot. They get the other ones who use that spot to block the contractors from getting there. You call the police. They come to watch the protesters and say as long as they are “non-violent “, they can camp on your driveway as long as they want.
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:rofl:
The back of the shirt says, "we're not going anywhere"
Translation: "We don't want progress or scientific research here, but we need cell phones, facebook, Instagram, craigslist, bootleg radio station, television coverage, the road that the government built for us, cars and pickup trucks that were designed by oppressive white men,"
Any life form, from viruses, to insects, to people will go extinct if they don't adapt. Those people will sit there and we are all paying for this circus.
Well said OF. The ancient Polynesians were masters of navigation and managing the resources of each island. They also realized that each island held a finite amount of resources. Exploration became a necessity. The late great Stephen Hawking stated that due to our exponentially growing population the human race has 100-200 years left before we start to kill each other over the ever dwindling resources. Once this begins it will be too late to find another planet. We can easily envision our planet as an island in the vast universe.
The dinosaurs did not have a space program and we all know how that ended. The sooner we can locate a planet killer asteroid and deal with it, the better our chances of survival. The TMT will give us a better chance of finding a planet killer at a far enough distance that it can deal with it. If the human race goes extinct, then all cultures and religions will be lost and gone forever. No one will be left to carry on or care.
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I don’t care one way or the other whether or not it gets built either, as I have no “skin in the game” so to speak. What bothers me is that an illegal blockade is being allowed when TMT has a valid permit. Imagine if you bought a vacant lot and got a valid building permit for a home, but people who used that lot to go to the beach did not want you to build your home because it would block access to their favorite fishing spot. They get the other ones who use that spot to block the contractors from getting there. You call the police. They come to watch the protesters and say as long as they are “non-violent “, they can camp on your driveway as long as they want.
Effectively a hostage situation. And yeah, that is one aspect that is certainly troubling and I feel will only embolden those to act similarly in the future. I am just happy that the blocking of traffic non-sense stopped.
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"So im against the TMT and understand all points made BUT what about the fact that they want to build a telescope near an almost active volcano (Mauna Loa).. wouldnt using dynamite near a volcano be very dangerous and unpredictable?? Ive never EVER heard of anyone building or using dynamite near a volcano that's near another volcano (kilauea) which until recently was flowing prettyy heavy. Does anyone know the "Science" of using dynamite near a volcano??? I once watched a documentary that said if Mauna loa erupted it would cause a Tsunami that would wipe out the island chain in minutes with the wave going OVER diamond head.... any thoughts?? Someone who understands geology please helppp"
It's been a while since I've taken geology (like 20+ years). However, we are taking about orders of magnitude (quite a LOT in layman's terms) of energy differences here. Like throwing a firecracker at a meteor the size of Texas (from Armaggedon). Well, I guess one could get lots of TNT. . . or detonate a nuke in their silo. . .
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I don’t care one way or the other whether or not it gets built either, as I have no “skin in the game” so to speak. What bothers me is that an illegal blockade is being allowed when TMT has a valid permit. Imagine if you bought a vacant lot and got a valid building permit for a home, but people who used that lot to go to the beach did not want you to build your home because it would block access to their favorite fishing spot. They get the other ones who use that spot to block the contractors from getting there. You call the police. They come to watch the protesters and say as long as they are “non-violent “, they can camp on your driveway as long as they want.
I never disagreed with this premise, as this is a valid argument. I guess those in-control value the Hawaiian vote?
In the long-run, TMT is inconsequential to the economic survival of Hawaii and to proceed with TMT at this point might be a pyrrhic victory. If I were Ige, cut Hawaii's losses and ties with TMT and start looking for other ways to bring money to the islands.
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The sooner we can locate a planet killer asteroid and deal with it, the better our chances of survival. The TMT will give us a better chance of finding a planet killer at a far enough distance that it can deal with it. If the human race goes extinct, then all cultures and religions will be lost and gone forever. No one will be left to carry on or care.
If the US was really serious in this regard, it should lead the way, cut their military spending, stop creating military bases all over the World, and devote more of its resources to this effect. Having one more telescope will do nothing, if there is no additional resources to combat that killer asteroid.
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Well said OF. The ancient Polynesians were masters of navigation and managing the resources of each island. They also realized that each island held a finite amount of resources. Exploration became a necessity. The late great Stephen Hawking stated that due to our exponentially growing population the human race has 100-200 years left before we start to kill each other over the ever dwindling resources. Once this begins it will be too late to find another planet. We can easily envision our planet as an island in the vast universe.
The dinosaurs did not have a space program and we all know how that ended. The sooner we can locate a planet killer asteroid and deal with it, the better our chances of survival. The TMT will give us a better chance of finding a planet killer at a far enough distance that it can deal with it. If the human race goes extinct, then all cultures and religions will be lost and gone forever. No one will be left to carry on or care.
We potentially found one. We call it "Mars." Trump has the gov't working on a mission to get there using the Moon as a base of operations.
So, once again, Trump is busy solving the hard, critical problems in spite of the Swamp and Liberals who are more afraid of Climate Change than realistic problems we can actually solve/impact like depleted resources.
I believe California is working on the over-population problem, too. Their solution is to ignore homelessness to the point where the plague wipes out a good percentage of residents. Rather than working it from the supply side, they're focusing on demand. :thumbsup:
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I never disagreed with this premise, as this is a valid argument. I guess those in-control value the Hawaiian vote?
In the long-run, TMT is inconsequential to the economic survival of Hawaii and to proceed with TMT at this point might be a pyrrhic victory. If I were Ige, cut Hawaii's losses and ties with TMT and start looking for other ways to bring money to the islands.
The revenue generated by TMT is not the main issue. After the Super Ferry, and now the resistance to TMT, it signals to other, more economically beneficial, projects they should think twice before investing here.
Nobody wants to expend 10 years of effort, labor and cost planning and getting approval for a project only to have locals (actual Hawaiians and not) try to prevent implementation.
The parallels to New York keeping Amazon (and lots of 6-figure jobs) out of their state over some virtue-signaling nonsense and the TMT protests are obvious. Cutting off your nose to spite your face.
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If the US was really serious in this regard, it should lead the way, cut their military spending, stop creating military bases all over the World, and devote more of its resources to this effect. Having one more telescope will do nothing, if there is no additional resources to combat that killer asteroid.
Did you miss the movie? Military technology and arms were used to save the planet.
Warfare has advanced technology in many areas, including medical care. For all its costs, there are real benefits that emerge from conflict.
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Did you miss the movie?
miss?
I don't want to miss a thing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR68oAtWY-c
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miss?
I don't want to miss a thing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR68oAtWY-c
Asteroid Dottie, after his wife. :rofl:
"She's a vicious life-sucking bitch from with there is no escape"
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I support the TMT and amazes me that the protesters don't see the telescopes as a continuation of their ancestor's beliefs in exploration. Did anyone see Moana? They also created a Hawaiian dialogue version (including Dwayne Johnson).
IMHO, the protesters are emboldened by the Super Ferry protesters. It wasn't the kayaks blocking the ship that finally stopped the service, it was the courts that did after they ruled the Super Ferry did not do a proper EIS (slow whales). In contrast, the TMT has completed extensive EIS and have won in the courts. Their problem is that they have no credibility with the people. I've worked with clients in Alaska (TAPPS) and Nevada Test Range who keep track of every bit of damage they made (non-nuclear) and spend a lot of money making sure it goes back to the way it was before the land was disturbed.
UH needs to show that they can do the same with the telescopes by first demo the obsolete telescopes and then return the mauna to the way it was before the telescope complex was built. So maybe after 2033, they can built a better telescope. The TMT can either bugger off to the Canary Islands or wait until they've built enough cred to gain the trust of the people.
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2019/01/25/plan-demolish-telescopes-atop-mauna-kea-estimated-m/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qg-D-Up5fMY
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Did anyone see Moana? They also created a Hawaiian dialogue version (including Dwayne Johnson).
Did you seriously cite Moana? ???
And yes, I did see the movie. Heihei was particularly entertaining... 8)
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We potentially found one. We call it "Mars." Trump has the gov't working on a mission to get there using the Moon as a base of operations.
So, once again, Trump is busy solving the hard, critical problems in spite of the Swamp and Liberals who are more afraid of Climate Change than realistic problems we can actually solve/impact like depleted resources.
I believe California is working on the over-population problem, too. Their solution is to ignore homelessness to the point where the plague wipes out a good percentage of residents. Rather than working it from the supply side, they're focusing on demand. :thumbsup:
Mars is a good first planet to inhabit, but I still believe we should look beyond Mars. I remain skeptical of Elon's Mars One project. You are right that if anyone can do it, Trump would be the best bet. Hey maybe we can even build a more powerful telescope than the TMT on Olympus Mons. It is over twice the height of Everest. Hopefully no one will try to block it.
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Mars is a good first planet to inhabit, but I still believe we should look beyond Mars. I remain skeptical of Elon's Mars One project. You are right that if anyone can do it, Trump would be the best bet. Hey maybe we can even build a more powerful telescope than the TMT on Olympus Mons. It is over twice the height of Everest. Hopefully no one will try to block it.
Looking beyond Mars is a good endeavor, but we have to be realistic about our goals. The technology to travel beyond our own solar system doesn't yet exist. The trip from Earth to Mars is about 7 months. Imagine the logistics of sustaining humans for 7 months in space: oxygen, food, water, etc. We can pre-ship supplies to Mars so food, shelter and oxygen generation equipment is already there. The smart people planning Mars One are looking at using robots to build shelters and storage units in preparation for human arrival. That mission is a one-way trip. No way to have the resources and equipment needed to survive as well as launch a return mission.
https://www.mars-one.com/
I'd personally like to see us use Phobos (one of Mars' moons) as a base of operations. It orbits closer to Mars than any known moon orbits around its planet. In fact, it orbits Mars 3 times each day. Phobos has 1/1,000th the amount of gravity as Earth. A 150 lb man would weigh 2 ounces there. That would make launching and landing space vehicles more efficient and safer, both toward/from Earth or Mars. In fact, humans could live on Phobos and send robots they operate remotely to Mars to do much of the work needed to explore and prepare for inhabitants. Operating them from Earth is inefficient due to the time lag between transmission and receipt of communications across millions of kilometers:
Sometimes it's close to Mars, when it's making a pass, and other times it's far away, at the other side of the track.
The minimum distance from the Earth to Mars is about 54.6 million kilometers.
The farthest apart they can be is about 401 million km.
The average distance is about 225 million km.
Phobos is "only" 3,700 miles above the surface of Mars.
Baby steps.
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Looking beyond Mars is a good endeavor, but we have to be realistic about our goals. The technology to travel beyond our own solar system doesn't yet exist. The trip from Earth to Mars is about 7 months. Imagine the logistics of sustaining humans for 7 months in space: oxygen, food, water, etc. We can pre-ship supplies to Mars so food, shelter and oxygen generation equipment is already there. The smart people planning Mars One are looking at using robots to build shelters and storage units in preparation for human arrival. That mission is a one-way trip. No way to have the resources and equipment needed to survive as well as launch a return mission.
https://www.mars-one.com/
I'd personally like to see us use Phobos (one of Mars' moons) as a base of operations. It orbits closer to Mars than any known moon orbits around its planet. In fact, it orbits Mars 3 times each day. Phobos has 1/1,000th the amount of gravity as Earth. A 150 lb man would weigh 2 ounces there. That would make launching and landing space vehicles more efficient and safer, both toward/from Earth or Mars. In fact, humans could live on Phobos and send robots they operate remotely to Mars to do much of the work needed to explore and prepare for inhabitants. Operating them from Earth is inefficient due to the time lag between transmission and receipt of communications across millions of kilometers:
Phobos is "only" 3,700 miles above the surface of Mars.
Baby steps.
Refresh my memory Flapp. Didn't the Soviets send a failed probe to Phobos decades ago? I heard all sorts of weird theories about why it failed including alien intervention. I know its a little off the subject but the stories about Phobos stuck in my memory.
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If the US was really serious in this regard, it should lead the way, cut their military spending, stop creating military bases all over the World, and devote more of its resources to this effect. Having one more telescope will do nothing, if there is no additional resources to combat that killer asteroid.
I know that it may sound strange but Trump created the space force to deal with this. They are working on this. For all our sakes I wish them success. We do have the technology to land on asteroids. Recently the Hayabusa 2 retrieved samples from an asteroid and Bruce Willis was not involved.
One telescope is but one part of an array of telescopes world wide. The TMT is a very important part of this network. Like the compound eye of an insect, each component gives the insect a very wide field of view of the world.
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Refresh my memory Flapp. Didn't the Soviets send a failed probe to Phobos decades ago? I heard all sorts of weird theories about why it failed including alien intervention. I know its a little off the subject but the stories about Phobos stuck in my memory.
Russian probes launched in the late 1980s, Phobos 1 and Phobos 2, both suffered technical failures.
P1 lost communications enroute to Phobos due to a faulty software upload. The upload unintentionally deactivated the attitude thrusters (insert TWSS joke) which prevented the probe from orienting itself toward the sun to recharge its power cells.
P2 made it to Mars and entered orbit. After sending back data and images, communication with the probe was lost prior to the final phase: deploying a Mars lander. Some say the failure occurred just as the probe passed near Phobos, giving rise to stories there's something there.
And now ...... the REST .. of the "story" ....
https://www.ufocasebook.com/phobos2.html
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Yes, you are a part of Hawaiian history. You are residents who are residing in an illegally occupied nation.
I was just buzzing through before dinner.
I really don't care for Hawaiian laws, international laws,
or Republican laws, or anybody else's laws.
I cheat them at every chance. There
are only 10 commandments I observe.
That is it.
Keeps life simple for a simple man.
Aloha.
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Now we have some well known surfers joining the TMT protests. I think the state should register and tax surfboards like they do boats.
https://bigislandnow.com/2019/08/12/surfers-for-mauna-kea-unite-in-solidarity/
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Now we have some well known surfers joining the TMT protests. I think the state should register and tax surfboards like they do boats.
https://bigislandnow.com/2019/08/12/surfers-for-mauna-kea-unite-in-solidarity/
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People are just joining the frenzy to attract attention.
If this were ANY other country, it would have ended weeks ago with tear gas and batons
Those protester are enjoying the benefits of living in a country that they want to secede from....hmmm let's think about that
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Gee, I wonder who gave the orders to override the plan to arrest the criminals?
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2019/08/13/frontline-hpd-officer-describes-tmt-protest-mauna-kea/
Officers: Police plans to arrest TMT protesters, clear road abruptly fell through
By the time police arrived, state land officers had already arrested 38 people, mostly kupuna. In all, there were 56 Honolulu and 27 Maui officers.
They took orders from the state and Big Island police, according to SHOPO.
Officers say their orders were to clear the road as a human blockade of women grew to about 150 ― all prepared to be arrested.
“I believe from the front line of ladies with their arms locked, an expectation that they were going to be arrested that day. There was some understanding that that was going to occur,” said Smith.
But around 4:15 p.m., officers were suddenly told to retreat.
“It was still unclear as the direction to which we were moving," Smith said.
“We were going to clear the road that day and for whatever reason information that filtered between the command personnel on site did not come back down to us on the road. At some point, the decision was made to have us depart.”
Smith’s version of events sheds light on one of the most emotional days of the conflict, and raises new questions about the government response in the wake of the arrests.
SHOPO president Sgt. Malcolm Lutu says the reason law enforcement deviated from the plan is still unclear. He thinks it’s political.
"I think if they kept to the original plan, it probably would have been solved already," said Lutu.
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Now we have some well known surfers joining the TMT protests. I think the state should register and tax surfboards like they do boats.
https://bigislandnow.com/2019/08/12/surfers-for-mauna-kea-unite-in-solidarity/
It's self serving and narcissistic. "Hey look at me surfing" #MaunaKea
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If this were ANY other country, it would have ended weeks ago with tear gas and batons
Tell that to those arriving and departing Hong Kong's airport.
Those protester are enjoying the benefits of living in a country that they want to secede from....hmmm let's think about that
What is there to think about?
No more direct threat of foreign missile attack, no more Jones Act, no more republican and democratic party nonsense, no more US gun restriction, no more sanctuary cities, etc...
Wow, how much better Hawaii can be!
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No more Bill of Rights, no more Constitution, and no more federal government to right the ship against corruption. Sounds like a blast.
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Note that the Delusional One conspicuously left out: "No more corruption. No more nepotism. No more racism. No more elitist privilege and double standards. Etc., etc., etc."
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Note that the Delusional One conspicuously left out: "No more corruption. No more nepotism. No more racism. No more elitist privilege and double standards. Etc., etc., etc."
of course, none of that is going to occur, since everyone will "live pono"
aka "DA KAHUNA GOIN' TAKE CARE US"
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of course, none of that is going to occur, since everyone will "live pono"
aka "DA KAHUNA GOIN' TAKE CARE US"
Yeah, I see all that "pono" in the workings of OHA (it's prolly just the haoles/non-"hawaiians" that are corrupt there...).
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Sounds a bit barbaric. Checkout the Instagram link.
"Any Native Hawaiian supporter of TMT that has posted online can regale you with stories of being called a traitor, not Hawaiian, a fake Hawaiian, or had their very Native Hawaiian identity challenged. In a recent five-hour text conversation I had with one protector, TMT was barely discussed but there was extensive discussion about whether or not I was a real Native Hawaiian. Kalepa Baybayan, one of the original Native Hawaiian Hokulea navigators, was called a traitor in the comments to one recent interview. There are also threats of physical violence, such as kidnapping or having one’s throat slit. This is the language of bullies.
Need more examples? There is an entire Instagram feed dedicated to it."
https://www.westhawaiitoday.com/2019/08/13/opinion/my-turn-threats-effective-at-silencing-pro-tmt-hawaiians/
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No more Bill of Rights, no more Constitution, and no more federal government to right the ship against corruption. Sounds like a blast.
It would be a blast. Hawaii had a constitution very similar to the US Constitution during the kingdom and short-lived republic era.
What makes you think it would be no different after occupation?
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Yeah, I see all that "pono" in the workings of OHA (it's prolly just the haoles/non-"hawaiians" that are corrupt there...).
OHA WAS NOT CREATED BY HAWAIIANS!
It was created by the so-called state of Hawaii and brought with it all of the corruption of that so-called state.
That entity is used to subjugate and control Hawaiians using blood money from US taxpayers.
OHA should be defunded and disbanded.
IMUA!
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Sounds a bit barbaric. Checkout the Instagram link.
"Any Native Hawaiian supporter of TMT that has posted online can regale you with stories of being called a traitor, not Hawaiian, a fake Hawaiian, or had their very Native Hawaiian identity challenged. In a recent five-hour text conversation I had with one protector, TMT was barely discussed but there was extensive discussion about whether or not I was a real Native Hawaiian. Kalepa Baybayan, one of the original Native Hawaiian Hokulea navigators, was called a traitor in the comments to one recent interview. There are also threats of physical violence, such as kidnapping or having one’s throat slit. This is the language of bullies.
Need more examples? There is an entire Instagram feed dedicated to it."
https://www.westhawaiitoday.com/2019/08/13/opinion/my-turn-threats-effective-at-silencing-pro-tmt-hawaiians/
Keep in mind, not all Hawaiians are threatening pro-TMT Hawaiian supporters. Moreover, how do we know those making threats, if done through social media, are actually Hawaiian and not some pro-TMT supporters doing a false-flag on themselves?
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Note that the Delusional One conspicuously left out: "No more corruption. No more nepotism. No more racism. No more elitist privilege and double standards. Etc., etc., etc."
You know you are describing the current situation in America, don't you?
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It would be a blast. Hawaii had a constitution very similar to the US Constitution during the kingdom and short-lived republic era.
What makes you think it would be no different after occupation?
Under what authority is that presumption made? There are so many factions that claim sovereignty. How much weight does that assumption carry?
On another note, why must you bold all your posts?
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OHA WAS NOT CREATED BY HAWAIIANS!
It was created by the so-called state of Hawaii and brought with it all of the corruption of that so-called state.
That entity is used to subjugate and control Hawaiians using blood money from US taxpayers.
OHA should be defunded and disbanded.
IMUA!
Do you intentionally avoid responding to the obvious point of posts, or are you really that stupid that you can't see the obvious point of the posts?
Never said anything about who created it or what happened with it re certain races blah blah blah. Just answer the question: were/are any of the corrupt OHA members "hawaiian"?
We all know the reason you wont' answer such questions. I'm just posing it rhetorically while you conflate and deflect from the reality you stubbornly refuse to acknowledge.
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You know you are describing the current situation in America, don't you?
I know I'm describing human nature, and the degree to which they can get away with doing such things on a massive government level scale is determined, to some degree, by the degree to which people allow it to happen.
Your pontificating that your fantasy restored whatever wouldn't be a duplicate of human nature, maybe at it's worst end from what we see already from "your people", is a delusional joke.
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It would be a blast. Hawaii had a constitution very similar to the US Constitution during the kingdom and short-lived republic era.
What makes you think it would be no different after occupation?
Funny, I don't remember seeing this sort of thing in the U.S. Constitution:
ARTICLE 3. All men may freely speak, write, and publish their sentiments on all subjects, being responsible for the abuse of that right, and no law shall be enacted to restrain the liberty of speech, or of the press, except such laws as may be necessary for the protection of His Majesty the King and the Royal Family.
ARTICLE 4. All men shall have the right, in an orderly and peaceable manner, to assemble, without arms, to consult upon the common good, and to petition the King or Legislative Assembly for redress of grievances.
ARTICLE 5. The privilege of the writ of Habeas Corpus belongs to all men, and shall not be suspended, unless by the King, when in cases of rebellion or invasion, the public safety shall require its suspension.
That's from the 1864 constitution of your fabulous Kamehameha V.
I don't see the "right to keep and bear arms" in there anywhere at all. Funny that.
I DO see lots and lots of crap about the special privileges of the king and the royals. I guess I missed those parts of the U.S. Constitution... where are they, exactly?
Oh, you'll no doubt say "Well, that was the kingdom [which you already said above counted since it may be "restored"], but the republic constitution... blah blah blah". Okay, quote me the part of the republic constitution that protects the right to keep and bear arms. Go ahead. I see the "no quartering soldiers in homes" section, but the protection for the right to keep and bear arms seems conspicuously absent. Or are you claiming they'll just honor that even though it's not in any lawful document... out of the pono of their hearts?
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What is there to think about?
No more direct threat of foreign missile attack, no more Jones Act, no more republican and democratic party nonsense, no more US gun restriction, no more sanctuary cities, etc...
Wow, how much better Hawaii can be!
Every radical/Liberal/Socialist who yells for "CHANGE!!" always believes that change will be effected in ways that conform to their vision and ideologies.
This state is a Democrat stronghold for a reason. It'll take more than a name change and removal of a flag to alter that mindset.
People like Ige, Caldwell, and Espero are in office for a reason, and it's NOT because they are US loyalists.
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Every radical/Liberal/Socialist who yells for "CHANGE!!" always believes that change will be effected in ways that conform to their vision and ideologies.
This state is a Democrat stronghold for a reason. It'll take more than a name change and removal of a flag to alter that mindset.
People like Ige, Caldwell, and Espero are in office for a reason, and it's NOT because they are US loyalists.
Two things:
1. Espero is gone (no doubt could be back).. but you could have written Green, Rhoads, Lee, etc. with the same consequence.
2."more than a name change" would be accomplished by some advocates for "restoration" as I've said elsewhere, who tell me all who can't trace their lineage back to citizenship pre-1894 will have their property seized and be deported. Just sayin'.
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Under what authority is that presumption made? There are so many factions that claim sovereignty. How much weight does that assumption carry?
Most of those factions are not basing their position on the authority of US Constitutional (i.e., the basis of the illegal occupation), Hawaiian Kingdom (i.e., how the government will be reestablished after occupation), and International Law (i.e., how will non-nationals living in Hawaii will be treated after deoccupation). Many of those groups were born during a time when such legal and historical knowledge was not yet fully understood by Hawaiian and non-Hawaiian historical and legal scholars today; and yet they still base their claims on purely moral, religious, or racial foundations.
Times have changed.
On another note, why must you bold all your posts?
I only use bold to differentiate between the original post and my own. No other meaning than that.
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Do you intentionally avoid responding to the obvious point of posts, or are you really that stupid that you can't see the obvious point of the posts?
Never said anything about who created it or what happened with it re certain races blah blah blah. Just answer the question: were/are any of the corrupt OHA members "hawaiian"?
We all know the reason you wont' answer such questions. I'm just posing it rhetorically while you conflate and deflect from the reality you stubbornly refuse to acknowledge.
I am a Hawaiian who wishes the end of OHA.
Do you think that I don't believe in the corruption of its leadership regardless of their aboriginal, racial, or ethnic backgrounds?
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Funny, I don't remember seeing this sort of thing in the U.S. Constitution:
ARTICLE 3. All men may freely speak, write, and publish their sentiments on all subjects, being responsible for the abuse of that right, and no law shall be enacted to restrain the liberty of speech, or of the press, except such laws as may be necessary for the protection of His Majesty the King and the Royal Family.
ARTICLE 4. All men shall have the right, in an orderly and peaceable manner, to assemble, without arms, to consult upon the common good, and to petition the King or Legislative Assembly for redress of grievances.
ARTICLE 5. The privilege of the writ of Habeas Corpus belongs to all men, and shall not be suspended, unless by the King, when in cases of rebellion or invasion, the public safety shall require its suspension.
That's from the 1864 constitution of your fabulous Kamehameha V.
I don't see the "right to keep and bear arms" in there anywhere at all. Funny that.
I DO see lots and lots of crap about the special privileges of the king and the royals. I guess I missed those parts of the U.S. Constitution... where are they, exactly?
Oh, you'll no doubt say "Well, that was the kingdom [which you already said above counted since it may be "restored"], but the republic constitution... blah blah blah". Okay, quote me the part of the republic constitution that protects the right to keep and bear arms. Go ahead. I see the "no quartering soldiers in homes" section, but the protection for the right to keep and bear arms seems conspicuously absent. Or are you claiming they'll just honor that even though it's not in any lawful document... out of the pono of their hearts?
The Hawaiian Constitution of 1864 does not specifically mention the right to bear arms as does the US Constitution. The right to bear arms is in the Bill of Rights, which no such document existed in Hawaii. However, there is no evidence in the Hawaiian Constitution that forbade the ownership of firearms.
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Every radical/Liberal/Socialist who yells for "CHANGE!!" always believes that change will be effected in ways that conform to their vision and ideologies.
This state is a Democrat stronghold for a reason. It'll take more than a name change and removal of a flag to alter that mindset.
People like Ige, Caldwell, and Espero are in office for a reason, and it's NOT because they are US loyalists.
In a deoccupied Hawaii, you need to remember that only nationals will have the right to vote. Many democratic voting loyalists would not have voting rights, unless they adopt Hawaiian citizenship when that process becomes available. There are many Hawaiians that may tend to be democratic leaning, but in a new political landscape, nothing is for certain as to political ideologies.
Realistically, the political party that can bring in the most money to the nation will probably be the most dominant in the short-term in a deoccupied Hawaii.
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In a deoccupied Hawaii, you need to remember that only nationals will have the right to vote. Many democratic voting loyalists would not have voting rights, unless they adopt Hawaiian citizenship when that process becomes available. There are many Hawaiians that may tend to be democratic leaning, but in a new political landscape, nothing is for certain as to political ideologies.
Realistically, the political party that can bring in the most money to the nation will probably be the most dominant in the short-term in a deoccupied Hawaii.
From my observation, the majority of voters in Hawaii are too easily swayed by emotional appeals (TMT is a great example).
Emotional appeals are how the Democrats operate, because their policies and promises are anything but pragmatic.
Good luck with that "nothing is for certain as to political ideologies". There's a reason there has only been 1 Republican elected governor since Hawaii became a state.
Plantation mentality still exists.
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Good luck with that "nothing is for certain as to political ideologies". There's a reason there has only been 1 Republican elected governor since Hawaii became a state.
Plantation mentality still exists.
There have been two Rep Gov in Hawaii. William Quinn and Linda Lingle. You are probably too young to remember Quinn who was Gov from 1959 to 1962.
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The Hawaiian Constitution of 1864 does not specifically mention the right to bear arms as does the US Constitution. The right to bear arms is in the Bill of Rights, which no such document existed in Hawaii. However, there is no evidence in the Hawaiian Constitution that forbade the ownership of firearms.
You're so full of shit. You don't ever actually answer a question. Here, I'll spell it out for you: No. There is absolutely no protection mentioned in any "constitution" nor attendant legal documents of any iteration of the "kingdom" that protects the fundamental individual natural civil right to keep and bear arms. Nor is there any such mention in the constitution nor any attendant legal document of the republic of Hawaii. None. Zilch. And your reference to the Second Amendment being part of the Bill of Rights, which no hawaiian constitution included, is total bullshit, and you know it. One, the Bill of Rights IS (part of).the Constitution. Two, those obviously tainted hawaiian constitutions have incorporated parts of the Bill of Rights into their constitutions (religion, assembly (unarmed), no military in civilian homes, etc.), but obviously and intentionally left out any reference AT ALL to any right to keep or bear arms. Now why would they do that? Anyone who suggests the "new" "hawaiians" would be any different than the old ones is living in a fantasy world. But we already knew that. I guess all that's new is seeing how they lie about it.
Your comment that those constitutions make no reference to forbidding the ownership of firearms as if that is some kind of tacit guarantee of a right is so preposterous I almost didn't bother to write this sentence.
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There have been two Rep Gov in Hawaii. William Quinn and Linda Lingle. You are probably too young to remember Quinn who was Gov from 1959 to 1962.
The first governor, Quinn, was appointed by a Republican US President, not elected.
Although he won the state's first gubernatorial election in 1959, the fact that he was the incumbent, appointed Governor of the territory in 1957, makes his election almost a "gimme".
Technically, he was elected governor. Realistically, he was already in the job when the first election was held.
However, it didn't take long (one term) for the Democrats to lay hold of the office for 40 years.
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There have been two Rep Gov in Hawaii. William Quinn and Linda Lingle. You are probably too young to remember Quinn who was Gov from 1959 to 1962.
I wasn’t born yet ;D
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I wasn’t born yet ;D
I was 9 when Hawaii became a state. My birth certificate has the seal of the Territory of Hawaii and has white letters on a black sheet.
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However, it didn't take long (one term) for the Democrats to lay hold of the office for 40 years.
Just goes to show ya that vermin are a disease!
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This "event" has faded in the media... not even on any of the front pages of the local media that I looked at today. But the superstitious racist criminals are still violating the law with total impunity.
Here's a brief comment I saw at Big Island Now:
reat disconformity
What is happening on the Mauna is not a 'protest' or a 'demonstration'.
It is a secessionist rebellion whose goal is to secede from the USA and re-establish a Monarchy over the objections of the vast majority of the population. The Mauna is simply a propaganda platform to this end and TMT is the innocent hostage. The small clique of 'cultural practitioners' (NOT native Hawaiians) leading the rebellion are master propagandists and legally astute.
So we now have a state government with an active and spreading secessionist rebellion ongoing right under its nose and, incredibly, elected officials voice support for the secessionists.
The government of Hawaii has collapsed and is no longer functional or operating under the US Constitution. Like Governor Ige, Lt. Governor Green and Mayor Kim, the loyalty of the state legislature is no longer with the United States, and it will not remove these Traitors. It is time to petition the US Military to remove these idiots from office for high Treason and re-establish a functional government.
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Heard Kai Kahele pushing to investigate the background, truth, legitimacy, etc of the Mauna Kea access road turnover, use, etc.
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Heard Kai Kahele pushing to investigate the background, truth, legitimacy, etc of the Mauna Kea access road turnover, use, etc.
Here's a brief video of a state senate committee member essentially claiming, were this "logic" extended (as it is by the "sovereignty" advocates, that all legal contracts and laws enacted post 1893 are "illegal" and the "kingdom" and/or "repubolic" are the true arbiters), that the "hawaiians" own everything... but here he's just arguing that they own this piece of property, so they are not breaking the law by sitting on their own property.
VIDEO: Who Owns Mauna Kea Access Road?
https://www.bigislandvideonews.com/2019/08/14/video-who-owns-mauna-kea-access-road/
https://youtu.be/NbxUKAQRfmg
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I also read an article that the MK Access Rd is under DHHL and not State jurisdiction, therefore these protesters have the “right” to stay there until/unless DHHL decides to move them out. The State CANNOT remove them.
And our esteemed Lt Gov has started his fundraising for his run for Gov in 2020.
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I also read an article that the MK Access Rd is under DHHL and not State jurisdiction, therefore these protesters have the “right” to stay there until/unless DHHL decides to move them out. The State CANNOT remove them.
And our esteemed Lt Gov has started his fundraising for his run for Gov in 2020.
Remember, Green is the guy who introduced the bill that would require a "mental health evaluation" by "a state approved mental health practitioner" within 90 days prior to any firearm purchase. I expect his next iteration to include ammo purchases. smh
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And the sad thing is he is almost sure to be elected Gov.
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And the sad thing is he is almost sure to be elected Gov.
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He's going to wear his hospital scrubs to the inauguration.
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And the sad thing is he is almost sure to be elected Gov.
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Who cares if the road transfer to the state had all its "i"s dotted and "t"s crossed?
Two words: Imminent Domain.
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Who cares if the road transfer to the state had all its "i"s dotted and "t"s crossed?
Two words: Imminent Domain.
Perhaps you meant imminent Eminent Domain.
If the government cowards won't move criminals off a public roadway, why would they take double-secret probation legal action to claim even more legal right?
Besides, nothing the state could ever do is legal under the sovereignty claim that all actions after 1893 are null and void due to an illegal occupation. I mean the state can do it, the courts, including the Supreme Court of Hawaii can uphold it... but it's still null and void. Ask the superstitious racist criminals themselves... they'll tell ya in no uncertain terms.
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Perhaps you meant imminent Eminent Domain.
If the government cowards won't move criminals off a public roadway, why would they take double-secret probation legal action to claim even more legal right?
Besides, nothing the state could ever do is legal under the sovereignty claim that all actions after 1893 are null and void due to an illegal occupation.
The rule exists whether or not the people in power choose to avail themselves of it.
Just saying, trying to lay legal claim to land under a trust doesn't hold water when the gov't has complete ability to override the legal system in that situation.
The state only has to reimburse the current owners a fair price for the land they take, and it must be justifiably in the public interest to take the land.
That would answer this ownership question now and in the future should new protests seek to block the road again.
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The rule exists whether or not the people in power choose to avail themselves of it.
Just saying, trying to lay legal claim to land under a trust doesn't hold water when the gov't has complete ability to override the legal system in that situation.
The state only has to reimburse the current owners a fair price for the land they take, and it must be justifiably in the public interest to take the land.
That would answer this ownership question now and in the future should new protests seek to block the road again.
I'm guessing that litigation would take at least 5 years. And...1. the sovereignty people would still claim it's illegal thus null and void, and 2. you'd likely still have someone in charge of the government who wouldn't be willing to enforce the law (e.g. Green).
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That's what happens when you have gutless cowards in office, or those that do anything to get re-elected.
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That's what happens when you have gutless cowards in office, or those that do anything to get re-elected.
AKA Democrats, RINOS, etc.
Has anyone at all, at any level of government, legislative or executive branches, made a clear unequivocal public statement to the effect that "The law must be enforced. People blocking any public roadway must be removed. No exceptions."?
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This "event" has faded in the media... not even on any of the front pages of the local media that I looked at today. But the superstitious racist criminals are still violating the law with total impunity.
Here's a brief comment I saw at Big Island Now:
reat disconformity
What is happening on the Mauna is not a 'protest' or a 'demonstration'.
It is a secessionist rebellion whose goal is to secede from the USA and re-establish a Monarchy over the objections of the vast majority of the population. The Mauna is simply a propaganda platform to this end and TMT is the innocent hostage. The small clique of 'cultural practitioners' (NOT native Hawaiians) leading the rebellion are master propagandists and legally astute.
So we now have a state government with an active and spreading secessionist rebellion ongoing right under its nose and, incredibly, elected officials voice support for the secessionists.
The government of Hawaii has collapsed and is no longer functional or operating under the US Constitution. Like Governor Ige, Lt. Governor Green and Mayor Kim, the loyalty of the state legislature is no longer with the United States, and it will not remove these Traitors. It is time to petition the US Military to remove these idiots from office for high Treason and re-establish a functional government.
Let them leave!
Define the territory they want, set borders and let them go.
If I'm stuck in the wrong spot, we can do it the old fashioned way.
War.
That is the Hawaiian way.
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AKA Democrats, RINOS, etc.
Has anyone at all, at any level of government, legislative or executive branches, made a clear unequivocal public statement to the effect that "The law must be enforced. People blocking any public roadway must be removed. No exceptions."?
Not that I am aware of and I am 100% certain the answer is "NO, BECAUSE I AM TOO AFRAID TO JEPRODIZE MY POLITICAL CAREER TO DO WHAT IS RIGHT. I did not get elected for this. All I wanted to do was make some money with under the table deals and kissing people's asses.
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If the government cowards won't move criminals off a public roadway, why would they take double-secret probation legal action to claim even more legal right?
Besides, nothing the state could ever do is legal under the sovereignty claim that all actions after 1893 are null and void due to an illegal occupation. I mean the state can do it, the courts, including the Supreme Court of Hawaii can uphold it... but it's still null and void. Ask the superstitious racist criminals themselves... they'll tell ya in no uncertain terms.
That is your first assessment of TMT that I am in total agreement with you! :thumbsup:
Except the superstitious racist criminal part. :(
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I'm guessing that litigation would take at least 5 years. And...1. the sovereignty people would still claim it's illegal thus null and void, and 2. you'd likely still have someone in charge of the government who wouldn't be willing to enforce the law (e.g. Green).
Don't you just love the local government of the state of Hawaii? :shaka:
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Let them leave!
Define the territory they want, set borders and let them go.
If I'm stuck in the wrong spot, we can do it the old fashioned way.
War.
That is the Hawaiian way.
Your interpretation of war being that of the "Hawaiian way" is so wrong on many levels. And your call for war, presumably against Hawaiians, is HATE SPEECH.
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Your interpretation of war being that of the "Hawaiian way" is so wrong on many levels. And your call for war, presumably against Hawaiians, is HATE SPEECH.
LOL! Yeah, groveler, can't you tell the difference between a little friendly sporting competition and "war". Good grief man, get a grip. You know, like this:
(https://i.imgur.com/KTodNHl.png)
You typical "hawaiian" fun event.
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And the sad thing is he is almost sure to be elected Gov.
I hope he finds dirt on the Clintons. . .
Or someone should plant some on him.
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That is your first assessment of TMT that I am in total agreement with you! :thumbsup:
Except the superstitious racist criminal part. :(
Good to know that you are in total agreement that a primary issue is getting "criminals off a public roadway".
First thing you ever said that acknowledges actual reality.
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Your interpretation of war being that of the "Hawaiian way" is so wrong on many levels. And your call for war, presumably against Hawaiians, is HATE SPEECH.
Hate speech doesn't exist.
https://youtu.be/0I6h9b59B2A
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Don't you just love the local government of the state of Hawaii? :shaka:
Obviously not, but clearly what you envision would be even worse, by miles.
So, when are you going to produce the quotes from the constitutions of the "kingdom" and/or "republic" that give even the slightest protection to the right to keep and bear arms?
I notice in that painting that while I see smoke from firearms being used by Kamehameha's sports team (NOT "war") the other side doesn't seem to be returning fire. Hmmm. I wonder why?
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Good to know that you are in total agreement that a primary issue is getting "criminals off a public roadway".
First thing you ever said that acknowledges actual reality.
I beg your pardon, I do not view people exercising free speech as criminals.
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LOL! Yeah, groveler, can't you tell the difference between a little friendly sporting competition and "war". Good grief man, get a grip. You know, like this:
(https://i.imgur.com/KTodNHl.png)
You typical "hawaiian" fun event.
You really hate anything Hawaiian don't you that you take a painting of the Battle of Nuuanu Pali and make disrespecting comments of those who participated in that battle.
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Hate speech doesn't exist.
https://youtu.be/0I6h9b59B2A
Well, making threatening comments to Hawaiians is more accurate then.
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You really hate anything Hawaiian don't you that you take a painting of the Battle of Nuuanu Pali and make disrespecting comments of those who participated in that battle.
What are you talking about? That can't be a "battle"... that is a term of "war"... and that's not the "hawaiian" way, according to you.
PS Could you please direct me to the politically correct historical accounts of the events pictured, as all the ones I have ever read have used the word "war" as part of the telling of the tale (and the other similar exploits of the "king").
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Well, making threatening comments to Hawaiians is more accurate then.
You're so full of shit.
A fifth grader could read groveler's comment and know without doubt that what he was saying is "come and take it". But since you obviously don't even know the meaning of words like "war", it's not all that surprising that you don't know the meaning of "threat" either. So now someone saying "I will defend myself, my family, and my property" is a threat? Figures.
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Well, making threatening comments to Hawaiians is more accurate then.
Let them leave!
Define the territory they want, set borders and let them go.
If I'm stuck in the wrong spot, we can do it the old fashioned way.
War.
That is the Hawaiian way.
Someone on an Internet forum said "War." That's definitely a threat.
You should report this credible threat to the police. Perhaps they'll even approve CCW for you, since -- you know -- threat!! :shake:
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Someone on an Internet forum said "War." That's definitely a threat.
"If I'm stuck in the wrong spot, we can do it the old fashioned way.
War. "
Where is the wrong spot? It appears to be all of Hawaii.
Do it the old fashion way...War, I wonder to whom this is being directed to? It appears to be Hawaiians.
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Are you guys really arguing the logic or rationale behind the "war" post? ??? :facepalm:
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"If I'm stuck in the wrong spot, we can do it the old fashioned way.
War. "
Where is the wrong spot? It appears to be all of Hawaii.
Do it the old fashion way...War, I wonder to whom this is being directed to? It appears to be Hawaiians.
Reading comprehension is key.
Let them leave!
Define the territory they want, set borders and let them go.
If I'm stuck in the wrong spot, we can do it the old fashioned way.
War.
That is the Hawaiian way.
Unless you think the "borders" will include all of Hawaii, then your argument is off base.
Since you wonder to WHOM the word "war" was directed, that by definition fails to rise to the level of a threat. A comment made against an unnamed or nonspecific person or group is an opinion, not a threat. In your opinion, it "appears to be Hawaiians". Again, your opinion doesn't constitute a threat.
Are you guys really arguing the logic or rationale behind the "war" post? ??? :facepalm:
There's no argument. Just being entertained by the nonsensical ravings of a lunatic mind.
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lets recap:
out of all the places to protest or "protect" and illegally obstruct a public roadway they chose a telescope. We have several "occupying" active military bases and UNITED STATES government installations that they could block access to and they chose the lowest hanging fruit of them all.
I smell .... {House Party reference}
Camp Smith got only one road in and out.
MCBH too.
and let's not forget those ICBM silos in the middle of the old pineapple fields.
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Eh, dey smata den dey look. Dey no lik get arrest fo real kine or shot. The military kine guys get gun en guarantee use em if dey trespass. Dey know da DLNR en odda cops going make da kine catch en release arrest and no going shoot o even use pepa spray. Dem Hawaiians smat buggas.
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Eh, dey smata den dey look. Dey no lik get arrest fo real kine or shot. The military kine guys get gun en guarantee use em if dey trespass. Dey know da DLNR en odda cops going make da kine catch en release arrest and no going shoot o even use pepa spray. Dem Hawaiians smat buggas.
yep
$40 red shirts
truck cruises
mopeds blocking the freeway
but they sure like the haole technology! the internet, the smart phones, the trucks. History sure does repeat itself!
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no protests here:
(https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hawaiimagazine.com%2Fimages%2Fcontent%2FHawaii_statehood_50_anniversary_remembered%2FBishopStatehood.jpg&f=1)
(https://islandpacificacademy.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Statehood-image-Newspaper-boy-Pacific-Island-Parks-website.jpg)
(https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.picclickimg.com%2Fd%2Fl400%2Fpict%2F311874848339_%2FSam-Makia-Hawaii-The-Fabulous-50th-State.jpg&f=1)
(https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.pixelslogodesign.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F03%2FUSA-Logo-440x240.png&f=1)
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I was only 9 when Hawaii became a state, but I remember the huge disappointment when Alaska was named the 49th state as Hawai’i was trying very hard for statehood. When Hawai’i was named the 50th State, my parents, uncles, aunts and neighbors were very happy. Being a little kid at the time, I couldn’t tell the difference.
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I think the problem is that people who are internally disappointed with their own shortcomings project it and blame something external.
This is a generational issue and is not localized here but this is a good example.
There are opportunities out there for everyone. This country gives you that - and ironically gives you the voice to opine.
You can throw the victim card deck of: racism, inequality, gender this and that, hate this & that but its getting old. A kid throwing a tantrum. because they didn't get a toy. An adult losing an argument. An adult bringing up the past and asking for "reparations".
While we are imploding other countries like India and China are moving forward with technology and REAL education in the sciences. That's where the world is moving - forward with science and tech.
Mauna Kea could be a testament and symbol of the past and the future looking at the heavens. They could have a cultural place like a museum showcasing Polynesian exploration and have the TMT. Increasing tourism revenue, Hawaiian history education and science at the same time.
But no. No negotiations. Throw a tantrum on the road. Some people want it barren, "sacred" ; breaking the law and laughing at our State.
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There's no argument. Just being entertained by the nonsensical ravings of a lunatic mind.
What makes you think you know the true intent of the original poster? Can you read his mind or is that another of your aliases?
Lunatic mind? Well, coming from a Obama admirer, I am the one who is entertained.
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What makes you think you know the true intent of the original poster? Can you read his mind or is that another of your aliases?
Lunatic mind? Well, coming from a Obama admirer, I am the one who is entertained.
Oh crap...here we go again! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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lets recap:
out of all the places to protest or "protect" and illegally obstruct a public roadway they chose a telescope. We have several "occupying" active military bases and UNITED STATES government installations that they could block access to and they chose the lowest hanging fruit of them all.
I smell .... {House Party reference}
Camp Smith got only one road in and out.
MCBH too.
and let's not forget those ICBM silos in the middle of the old pineapple fields.
Patience is a virtue.
With runaway national debt, countries on the verge of dumping the US Dollar, unsustainable military bases, racist divides among its population, illegal immigrants flooding through its southern borders, the birth rates of liberals increasing fasters than conservatives, talk of civil war II, and the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights continuously being trampled on by all three branches of its federal government, the restoration of the Hawaiian nation, Texas, and possibly the birth of smaller nations of what was once the USA might come unexpectedly sooner than people think.
We, Hawaiians, can afford to take our time and enjoy the show! :shaka:
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What makes you think you know the true intent of the original poster? Can you read his mind or is that another of your aliases?
Lunatic mind? Well, coming from a Obama admirer, I am the one who is entertained.
No. But I can read the words he wrote and comprehend the meaning.
Seems to be a skill SOME on this thread lack.
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Patience is a virtue.
With runaway national debt, countries on the verge of dumping the US Dollar, unsustainable military bases, racist divides among its population, illegal immigrants flooding through its southern borders, the birth rates of liberals increasing fasters than conservatives, talk of civil war II, and the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights continuously being trampled on by all three branches of its federal government, the restoration of the Hawaiian nation, Texas, and possibly the birth of smaller nations of what was once the USA might come unexpectedly sooner than people think.
We, Hawaiians, can afford to take our time and enjoy the show! :shaka:
conjecture. Nothing substantiates those claims about the US decline. There are more Hawaiian factions than there is hope or patience.
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conjecture. Nothing substantiates those claims about the US decline. There are more Hawaiian factions than there is hope or patience.
There have been many books on the topic of the US in decline; in fact, there have been threads regarding civil war II, Antifa, illegal immigrants, and economic collapse in this very forum that discuss their contribution to the decline of the US as well.
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There have been many books on the topic of the US in decline
There have been many books about Bigfoot, Lochness, etc. So all that must be true too then. :thumbsup:
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There have been many books about Bigfoot, Lochness, etc. So all that must be true too then. :thumbsup:
People can deny the signs all they want.
There are obviously those in this very forum who think otherwise given the number of threads talking about those issues.
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Constantly repeating opinion over and over and over and over and over and over won’t magically make it fact...
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Constantly repeating opinion over and over and over and over and over and over won’t magically make it fact...
Don't know what opinion you are talking about.
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Don't know what opinion you are talking about.
You wouldn't. It has to do with reality.
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You wouldn't. It has to do with reality.
Well, I hope you enjoy living with the never-ever-going-to-change Democratic Party control reality in your daily life in Hawaii.
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Well, I hope you enjoy living with the never-ever-going-to-change Democratic Party control reality in your daily life in Hawaii.
Well, I hope you enjoy living with the delusional world of never-ever-going-to-be restoration of the "kingdom" or the "republic". That's all you've got, because you obviously won't reply to the challenges to your false statements, but instead blather one inanity or another, like the above. And you wonder why people don't take you and the secessionist fantasy-land liars seriously?
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Excellent, extremely lengthy piece by Ken Conklin (yes, he does not have Ph.D. in "hawaiian studies", his Ph.D. is in another field, as if that has anything to do with the validity of what he writes) countering a propaganda piece published in the Kauai newspaper.
https://historymystery.kenconklin.org
Here is Conklin's letter in the Tribune Herald today, referencing the article he rebuts:
Sylvia Dahlby [letter published today in Tribune Herald] said “I’m not without sympathy for the sovereignty movement, and how the Hawaiian people have been treated”
Well Sylvia, I AM without sympathy for the sovereignty movement, and one reason is that the ethnic Hawaiians have been treated far better than any other ethnic group. They have all the same benefits everyone else gets, PLUS more than a thousand racial entitlement programs available only to people who have at least one drop of the magic blood. But that's not enough. There will never be enough to make the activists happy.
On Friday Aug 9 retired lawyer, judge, and mayor Bill Fernandez authored a lengthy commentary in The Garden Island [Kaua'i newspaper] supporting the Mauna Kea protesters on account of a very long list of historical grievances, most of which are either false or badly twisted. Please read my point-by-point rebuttal debunking those falsehoods. Typical junk we see all the time -- here are the bad things that have made us victims, now you owe us reparations like stopping TMT.
The rebuttal is too lengthy to place here as a comment or to publish in the print edition. You can find it by doing copy/paste of the following line of 4 keywords into your browser window or google
history mystery hawaii conklin
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This morning HNN said the reason the police did not remove the protesters was because they were greatly outnumbered and were afraid the situation would turn violent if they started to use force. They are seeking a “peaceful “ solution. Looks like the protesters will be allowed to stay there as long as they want.
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This morning HNN said the reason the police did not remove the protesters was because they were greatly outnumbered and were afraid the situation would turn violent if they started to use force. They are seeking a “peaceful “ solution. Looks like the protesters will be allowed to stay there as long as they want.
Civil Disobedience at its best!
Mahatma Gandhi and Martin Luther King would have been proud!
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Well, I hope you enjoy living with the delusional world of never-ever-going-to-be restoration of the "kingdom" or the "republic". That's all you've got, because you obviously won't reply to the challenges to your false statements, but instead blather one inanity or another, like the above. And you wonder why people don't take you and the secessionist fantasy-land liars seriously?
What you, I, or this entire forum personally thinks in regard to this issue is irrelevant. :thumbsup:
It is the civil authority and the US Government's view of its illegal annexation of Hawaii that matters and it seems from what we see with TMT, they do take it seriously. :shaka:
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What you, I, or this entire forum personally thinks in regard to this issue is irrelevant. :thumbsup:
It is the civil authority and the US Government's view of its illegal annexation of Hawaii that matters and it seems from what we see with TMT, they do take it seriously. :shaka:
For someone with an irrelevant opinion, you sure do trigger easily! :rofl:
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I think the real question is what constitutes as the "mountain" or the "mauna"? we all know mauna kea is the tallest mountain on earth because we know that "mountains" do not simply just consist of mountain "tops" or peaks or whatever part of the mountain land above sea level . So, if these activists are truly protesting desecration of the mountain, would they not themselves also be in violation of their own protest? Because they live on the island, they utilize the sewer systems, and public infrastructure that exists on the "mountain" or "aina", they drive cars which pollute the air, they utilize the roads that lead up the mauna kea access road. Imagine all the gas they have consumed hauling all the equipment and personnel up the mountain. The activists use smart phones and computers which are charged using electricity generated by the state and delivered through the government funded grid. I see a lot of hypocrisy in this protest. With that being said I do commend them on maintaining peace as a pillar of their protest (unlike Hong Kong...smh... but that's another topic).
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I think the real question is what constitutes as the "mountain" or the "mauna"? we all know mauna kea is the tallest mountain on earth because we know that "mountains" do not simply just consist of mountain "tops" or peaks or whatever part of the mountain land above sea level . So, if these activists are truly protesting desecration of the mountain, would they not themselves also be in violation of their own protest? Because they live on the island, they utilize the sewer systems, and public infrastructure that exists on the "mountain" or "aina", they drive cars which pollute the air, they utilize the roads that lead up the mauna kea access road. Imagine all the gas they have consumed hauling all the equipment and personnel up the mountain. The activists use smart phones and computers which are charged using electricity generated by the state and delivered through the government funded grid. I see a lot of hypocrisy in this protest. With that being said I do commend them on maintaining peace as a pillar of their protest (unlike Hong Kong...smh... but that's another topic).
If memory serves me correctly Mount Lam Lam in Guam is the tallest mountain in the world with 98% of it under the water in the Mariana Trench :shake: :wacko: :D
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If memory serves me correctly Mount Lam Lam in Guam is the tallest mountain in the world with 98% of it under the water in the Mariana Trench :shake: :wacko: :D
Nope.
Mt Everest is the tallest mountain above sea level,
Mauna Kea is the tallest mountain from base (Pacific Ocean floor) to peak.
Chimborazo in Ecuador is the highest mountain above the center of the Earth. Being just one degree south of the equator, it's situated on the "bulge" of the Earth around the equator, increasing the distance from the Earth's center.
Mount LamLam in Guam is not the tallest mountain from base to peak. Challenger Deep in the Marianas Trench is the deepest point on Earth. So, if you take Challenger Deep as the base of LamLam, then the mountain becomes the tallest mountain in Earth. The problem with that is, if you measure from the deepest part of the Marianas Trench that's adjacent to Guam, it does't beat Mauna Kea.
So, it really all depends on where you start measuring.
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On the news the other week they were saying for a SHORT while some scientists thought Mauna Kea was the 2nd tallest when measured from its base below the ocean surface. Further study and measurements reaffirmed that Mauna Kea is the tallest mountain when measured from a mountain's base.
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On the news the other week they were saying for a SHORT while some scientists thought Mauna Kea was the 2nd tallest when measured from its base below the ocean surface. Further study and measurements reaffirmed that Mauna Kea is the tallest mountain when measured from a mountain's base.
Must have been girls doing the previous measurements. Any guy knows you always measure from the lowest part of the base to get the maximum .... height possible. :rofl:
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Nope.
Mt Everest is the tallest mountain above sea level,
Mauna Kea is the tallest mountain from base (Pacific Ocean floor) to peak.
Chimborazo in Ecuador is the highest mountain above the center of the Earth. Being just one degree south of the equator, it's situated on the "bulge" of the Earth around the equator, increasing the distance from the Earth's center.
Mount LamLam in Guam is not the tallest mountain from base to peak. Challenger Deep in the Marianas Trench is the deepest point on Earth. So, if you take Challenger Deep as the base of LamLam, then the mountain becomes the tallest mountain in Earth. The problem with that is, if you measure from the deepest part of the Marianas Trench that's adjacent to Guam, it does't beat Mauna Kea.
So, it really all depends on where you start measuring.
And I bet there are people (okay, at least one person) somewhere who "knows" that they are all "sacred" and should not be defiled in any way by people who believe differently than them. and probably should be restored to their own country/kingdom/fascist dictatorship.
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Nope.
Mt Everest is the tallest mountain above sea level,
Mauna Kea is the tallest mountain from base (Pacific Ocean floor) to peak.
Chimborazo in Ecuador is the highest mountain above the center of the Earth. Being just one degree south of the equator, it's situated on the "bulge" of the Earth around the equator, increasing the distance from the Earth's center.
Mount LamLam in Guam is not the tallest mountain from base to peak. Challenger Deep in the Marianas Trench is the deepest point on Earth. So, if you take Challenger Deep as the base of LamLam, then the mountain becomes the tallest mountain in Earth. The problem with that is, if you measure from the deepest part of the Marianas Trench that's adjacent to Guam, it does't beat Mauna Kea.
So, it really all depends on where you start measuring.
Cool info... :thumbsup:
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Must have been girls doing the previous measurements. Any guy knows you always measure from the lowest part of the base to get the maximum .... height possible. :rofl:
I start my measurement from the back. LOL
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I start my measurement from the back. LOL
:shake: :shake: :shake:
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Facts vs. myths: Debunking oft-cited claims abut TMT
By MICHAEL BRESTOVANSKY Hawaii Tribune-Herald | Sunday, August 18, 2019, 12:05 a.m.
Some opposition to the Thirty Meter Telescope is being fueled by prominent people — celebrities, musicians and politicians — who have offered their support to the Maunakea “protectors” via social media.
However, as opposing voices gain traction online, so do several misconceptions or untruths about the TMT project itself, making it hard for those unfamiliar with the issue to sort fact from fiction. Here is a collection of some of the myths versus the facts about the telescope.
Myth: Dynamite will be used to prepare the TMT site for construction.
“We will not be using dynamite in the construction of TMT at all,” said Sandra Dawson, TMT’s manager of Hawaii community affairs. The use of blasting was decided against in the early planning phases out of concerns that it would seem offensive, although Dawson admitted the construction process will consequently be slower.
Myth: There remain culturally significant architectural sites or protected species at the TMT location.
Extensive environmental impact studies have identified no such areas on the five-acre site, Dawson said. The nearest site of cultural significance is located 200 yards away from the TMT location; Dawson said one of the first actions of the construction team will be to visibly cordon off that site so that there is no chance that it could be destroyed accidentally.
Similarly, the wekiu bug — an insect endemic to the region that is often considered threatened by the present development of the summit — nests in cinder cones that are not close to the TMT site and will not be disturbed during construction.
Myth: The construction process will feature extensive drilling, potentially thousands of feet downward.
Dawson said this misconception might have been fueled by a core-sample drilling survey performed four years ago in order to determine whether the TMT site is safe to build upon. Beyond this, Dawson said there will be no drilling beyond the excavation necessary to set the TMT foundation.
Myth: The telescope will draw water from nearby Lake Waiau, considered a spiritual place.
Dawson said fears about the summit observatories draining Lake Waiau have been common over the years, particularly several years ago when the lake shrank during a drought. Because the lake is fed only by rainwater, it would be unfeasible to use water from the lake at all, even if the lake were not more than a mile away from the site. Instead, TMT will rely on water transported to the site from elsewhere on the island, like the other observatories.
Myth: Contaminants from TMT — whether from construction or the observatory itself — will leach into the island’s groundwater.
Don Thomas, geochemist and director for the Center for the Study of Active Volcanoes at the University of Hawaii Manoa Institute of Geophysics and Planetology, has previously said water infiltration from the summit would take more than 2,000 years to reach sea level, if it reaches sea level at all.
Dawson added that the construction process will be “by far the most careful construction project seen on Hawaii Island.” Oil pans will be placed under all construction vehicles at the summit and will be diligently checked and emptied, Dawson said and “there are no contaminants that haven’t been addressed.”
Gordon Squires, TMT’s vice president of external relations, added that mercury will not be used at TMT, and the observatory also will forbid use of any mirror-cleaning substance that is too caustic.
All wastewater will be transported down the mountain, not disposed of at the summit.
Myth: There are military applications for TMT, such as identifying and targeting foreign satellites or missiles.
None of the Maunakea observatories, Squires said, are suited for observing such near-Earth objects.
“These telescopes move slowly,” Squires said. “If we wanted to point TMT at an incoming missile, by the time we were pointed at it, it would be gone, it would be too late.”
Myth: TMT will be powered by a nuclear reactor.
Dawson said TMT will draw power from the island’s grid, provided by HELCO. The specific power-drain requirements have evolved over the years as technology becomes more energy-efficient.
Myth: TMT will be rendered obsolete by other telescopes elsewhere, or else does nothing that existing observatories cannot already do.
“We have 13 observatories on the mountain right now,” Squires said. “And they’re all involved in frontier studies, cutting-edge science. Pretty much every week, the Maunakea observatories discover something new. And some of them are 50 years old, so they don’t just become obsolete after a few years.”
Furthermore, the 30-meter mirror array that gives TMT its name allows for sharper images than any other telescope at Maunakea summit.
Myth: Couldn’t TMT be built in space, like the Hubble Space Telescope, to circumvent both the Maunakea controversy and any distortions caused by Earth’s atmosphere?
The Hubble’s mirror assembly is less than 3 meters wide, Squires said, with the full space telescope only 4 meters wide. TMT’s mirror array is 10 times the width of Hubble’s; Squires said no country currently has the capability to launch a telescope of TMT’s size into space, and likely will not in the lifetimes of anyone currently alive.
Myth: The jobs that TMT will bring to the island will largely be for haoles (Caucasians) with advanced science degrees.
Official TMT estimates indicate that the observatory will require about 140 full-time positions, 20% of which will be science positions.
Most of the positions — 40% — will be technical and engineering jobs, with software and IT jobs making up another 10%. Dawson said Maunakea observatories prefer to hire and train kama‘aina for these positions, as approximately 50% of mainland hires tend to seek new jobs off-island after two years.
Meanwhile, the construction process will employ 300 local and specialized construction jobs. Dawson said TMT signed a memorandum to hire union labor and pay union wages for the construction.
Myth: The TMT project does not have the $1.4 billion or more estimated to construct the project.
Squires said the existing TMT partners — the National Astronomical Observatory of Japan, the National Astronomical Observatories of the Chinese Academy of Sciences, India’s Department of Science and Technology, Canada’s National Research Council, the University of California and the California Institute of Technology — have made a commitment to build the telescope, while opportunities remain open for additional partners to sign onto the project. The four governments among the partners jointly represent about half the planet’s population, “so they should be good for store credit,” Squires said.
Myth: The primary purpose of the telescope is to seek out a new planet for humanity to live on after Earth is ravaged by climate change, pollution and war.
“There are many people in the astronomy community who are worried about planetary defense,” Squires said, conceding that discovering potentially habitable planets is a possible use of TMT. However, there will be other applications for TMT as well, while the construction of TMT will not mean that other efforts to combat the ecological degradation of the planet will end or be fruitless.
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Latest Ann Coulter column commenting on the "manifesto" of the El Paso Walmart killer and relating it to the various factions who chant "racism". Some parts of it read, with name changes, exactly as if they apply to the racist criminals blocking the road at Mauna Kea.
For example:
The student group MEChA -- Chicano Student Movement of Aztlan -- was formed 50 years ago with the claim that "Aztlan (i.e. the entire Southwest) belongs to those who plant the seeds, water the fields, and gather the crops and not to the foreign Europeans."
There are Mexican activist groups with names like "Mexicans Without Borders" and "La Raza," or "The Race." (Motto: "Por la raza todo, fuera de la raza nada" -- "For the race, everything; outside the race, nothing.")
During the periodic eruptions of illegal immigrants in California, mobs of illegals wave the Mexican flag, fly the U.S. flag upside down and chant crowd-pleasers like, "Who are you calling 'immigrant,' pilgrim?"
Read the whole thing:
WHAT THE EL PASO SHOOTER LEARNED FROM IMMIGRANTS
http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/2019-08-14.html
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Facts vs. myths: Debunking oft-cited claims abut TMT
By MICHAEL BRESTOVANSKY Hawaii Tribune-Herald | Sunday, August 18, 2019, 12:05 a.m.
Some opposition to the Thirty Meter Telescope is being fueled by prominent people — celebrities, musicians and politicians — who have offered their support to the Maunakea “protectors” via social media.
However, as opposing voices gain traction online, so do several misconceptions or untruths about the TMT project itself, making it hard for those unfamiliar with the issue to sort fact from fiction. Here is a collection of some of the myths versus the facts about the telescope.
Myth: Dynamite will be used to prepare the TMT site for construction.
“We will not be using dynamite in the construction of TMT at all,” said Sandra Dawson, TMT’s manager of Hawaii community affairs. The use of blasting was decided against in the early planning phases out of concerns that it would seem offensive, although Dawson admitted the construction process will consequently be slower.
Myth: There remain culturally significant architectural sites or protected species at the TMT location.
Extensive environmental impact studies have identified no such areas on the five-acre site, Dawson said. The nearest site of cultural significance is located 200 yards away from the TMT location; Dawson said one of the first actions of the construction team will be to visibly cordon off that site so that there is no chance that it could be destroyed accidentally.
Similarly, the wekiu bug — an insect endemic to the region that is often considered threatened by the present development of the summit — nests in cinder cones that are not close to the TMT site and will not be disturbed during construction.
Myth: The construction process will feature extensive drilling, potentially thousands of feet downward.
Dawson said this misconception might have been fueled by a core-sample drilling survey performed four years ago in order to determine whether the TMT site is safe to build upon. Beyond this, Dawson said there will be no drilling beyond the excavation necessary to set the TMT foundation.
Myth: The telescope will draw water from nearby Lake Waiau, considered a spiritual place.
Dawson said fears about the summit observatories draining Lake Waiau have been common over the years, particularly several years ago when the lake shrank during a drought. Because the lake is fed only by rainwater, it would be unfeasible to use water from the lake at all, even if the lake were not more than a mile away from the site. Instead, TMT will rely on water transported to the site from elsewhere on the island, like the other observatories.
Myth: Contaminants from TMT — whether from construction or the observatory itself — will leach into the island’s groundwater.
Don Thomas, geochemist and director for the Center for the Study of Active Volcanoes at the University of Hawaii Manoa Institute of Geophysics and Planetology, has previously said water infiltration from the summit would take more than 2,000 years to reach sea level, if it reaches sea level at all.
Dawson added that the construction process will be “by far the most careful construction project seen on Hawaii Island.” Oil pans will be placed under all construction vehicles at the summit and will be diligently checked and emptied, Dawson said and “there are no contaminants that haven’t been addressed.”
Gordon Squires, TMT’s vice president of external relations, added that mercury will not be used at TMT, and the observatory also will forbid use of any mirror-cleaning substance that is too caustic.
All wastewater will be transported down the mountain, not disposed of at the summit.
Myth: There are military applications for TMT, such as identifying and targeting foreign satellites or missiles.
None of the Maunakea observatories, Squires said, are suited for observing such near-Earth objects.
“These telescopes move slowly,” Squires said. “If we wanted to point TMT at an incoming missile, by the time we were pointed at it, it would be gone, it would be too late.”
Myth: TMT will be powered by a nuclear reactor.
Dawson said TMT will draw power from the island’s grid, provided by HELCO. The specific power-drain requirements have evolved over the years as technology becomes more energy-efficient.
Myth: TMT will be rendered obsolete by other telescopes elsewhere, or else does nothing that existing observatories cannot already do.
“We have 13 observatories on the mountain right now,” Squires said. “And they’re all involved in frontier studies, cutting-edge science. Pretty much every week, the Maunakea observatories discover something new. And some of them are 50 years old, so they don’t just become obsolete after a few years.”
Furthermore, the 30-meter mirror array that gives TMT its name allows for sharper images than any other telescope at Maunakea summit.
Myth: Couldn’t TMT be built in space, like the Hubble Space Telescope, to circumvent both the Maunakea controversy and any distortions caused by Earth’s atmosphere?
The Hubble’s mirror assembly is less than 3 meters wide, Squires said, with the full space telescope only 4 meters wide. TMT’s mirror array is 10 times the width of Hubble’s; Squires said no country currently has the capability to launch a telescope of TMT’s size into space, and likely will not in the lifetimes of anyone currently alive.
Myth: The jobs that TMT will bring to the island will largely be for haoles (Caucasians) with advanced science degrees.
Official TMT estimates indicate that the observatory will require about 140 full-time positions, 20% of which will be science positions.
Most of the positions — 40% — will be technical and engineering jobs, with software and IT jobs making up another 10%. Dawson said Maunakea observatories prefer to hire and train kama‘aina for these positions, as approximately 50% of mainland hires tend to seek new jobs off-island after two years.
Meanwhile, the construction process will employ 300 local and specialized construction jobs. Dawson said TMT signed a memorandum to hire union labor and pay union wages for the construction.
Myth: The TMT project does not have the $1.4 billion or more estimated to construct the project.
Squires said the existing TMT partners — the National Astronomical Observatory of Japan, the National Astronomical Observatories of the Chinese Academy of Sciences, India’s Department of Science and Technology, Canada’s National Research Council, the University of California and the California Institute of Technology — have made a commitment to build the telescope, while opportunities remain open for additional partners to sign onto the project. The four governments among the partners jointly represent about half the planet’s population, “so they should be good for store credit,” Squires said.
Myth: The primary purpose of the telescope is to seek out a new planet for humanity to live on after Earth is ravaged by climate change, pollution and war.
“There are many people in the astronomy community who are worried about planetary defense,” Squires said, conceding that discovering potentially habitable planets is a possible use of TMT. However, there will be other applications for TMT as well, while the construction of TMT will not mean that other efforts to combat the ecological degradation of the planet will end or be fruitless.
Very Good comment!
I will only add
"Dawson said Maunakea observatories prefer to hire and train kama‘aina for these positions, as approximately 50% of mainland hires tend to seek new jobs off-island after two years".
Many of the people hired by Observatories don't realize just how rural the big island really is. If you didn't grow up here you probably won't adapt well. I'd say it is well over a 50% attrition rate.
Very many observatory people are from Oahu. I can't stand that island, but it is easy for them to go "home" so they stay and work here on the Big island for many years.
A 20 minute flight and they are back in the sewer city, Honolulu.
Once again good comment!
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Was talking about TMT with a couple of friends of friends over the weekend. They are open minded for the most part and are willing to listen to alternative views. Though their “facts” are often reiteration of what they were told by folks they respect. Be it relatives, community leaders, etc. One said they take those statements as fact since those folks are typically held to a higher standard of scrutiny in what they say. But they are super sure that those are facts.
One of the myths that they were completely sold on was that the foundation of TMT needed a 500 foot deep excavation to counter the high winds experienced at the site. They we’re ABSOUTELY sure they were right. Well, the foundation excavation planned is about 20 feet. As mentioned above it appears the 500 foot depth number came probably came from exploratory borings to develop the design.
Anyways, that was my point about constant repeating of opinions doesn’t make something fact, but in many case about TMT “facts”, that is what I had encountered many times.
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Flew to Oahu from Hilo today. Couple Hawaiian wahines were across me and a few others in the other rows. They came to visit the mauna. The one across me told another one this is the 2nd time she visited the mauna and is planning to come again in a couple months. So why only now you feel it is important to visit the mauna? Was it not sacred and important to you before? One Hawaiian guy said he came from Wyoming. Glad the mauna is creating some tourism for the BI.
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Flew to Oahu from Hilo today. Couple Hawaiian wahines were across me and a few others in the other rows. They came to visit the mauna. The one across me told another one this is the 2nd time she visited the mauna and is planning to come again in a couple months. So why only now you feel it is important to visit the mauna? Was it not sacred and important to you before? One Hawaiian guy said he came from Wyoming. Glad the mauna is creating some tourism for the BI.
I'm curious why people think they have to go there to worship/pray? Muslims don't fly to Mecca 5 times a day. They just point themselves in the general direction of their holy city and chant.
I guess they're coming more for selfies and Summer vacation.
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I'm curious why people think they have to go there to worship/pray? Muslims don't fly to Mecca 5 times a day. They just point themselves in the general direction of their holy city and chant.
I guess they're coming more for selfies and Summer vacation.
virtue signaling...
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and another "celebrity"
https://www.kitv.com/story/40935325/they-would-die-for-our-aina-native-hawaiian-superstar-nicole-scherzinger-moved-by-visit-to-mauna-kea (https://www.kitv.com/story/40935325/they-would-die-for-our-aina-native-hawaiian-superstar-nicole-scherzinger-moved-by-visit-to-mauna-kea)
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nvm.
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nvm.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: BANG! Problem solved......
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Hollywood celebrites make me sick. They should stick to their make believe world.
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Hollywood celebrites make me sick. They should stick to their make believe world.
what a coincidence that each celebrity has a movie coming out or some other career-related event tied into their timely visit to Mauna Kea
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what a coincidence that each celebrity has a movie coming out or some other career-related event tied into their timely visit to Mauna Kea
And the politicians as well, especially the democrat ones....
Funny how they all had no comment before, now they all want to jump in.
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Hollywood celebrites make me sick. They should stick to their make believe world.
apparently, tia Carrera sang the national anthem at the preseason nfl game at aloha stadium
when she was done, she made the triangle symbol...
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Price tag for this circus is up to 3 million
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apparently, tia Carrera sang the national anthem at the preseason nfl game at aloha stadium
when she was done, she made the triangle symbol...
(https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ffthmb.tqn.com%2F79oWj1LOsZfAd93ugnuhmVzb49k%3D%2F1537x1200%2Ffilters%3Afill(auto%2C1)%2F82159063-58b8bc7e3df78c353c105f58.jpg&f=1)
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Damn that’s some ugly hands. If I was a chick I wouldn’t want those hands touching me.
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Shit heads will be shit heads!
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(https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ffthmb.tqn.com%2F79oWj1LOsZfAd93ugnuhmVzb49k%3D%2F1537x1200%2Ffilters%3Afill(auto%2C1)%2F82159063-58b8bc7e3df78c353c105f58.jpg&f=1)
f'real?
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Price tag for this circus is up to 3 million
If the state let’s them out wait the 2 year extension it will probably end up at $50 million.
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If the state let’s them out wait the 2 year extension it will probably end up at $50 million.
I'd guess it'd end up being way way way more than $50 million (they've spent that $3.2 million in ONE MONTH...no data for August was included)... especially if they keep up the the "traffic enforcement" joke of having "well over" 20 cops up there all day every day, likely utilizing lots of overtime both there and for the officers now having to cover for where those cops would normally be on duty. But, hey, who doesn't think it's all worth it to keep the sacred mauna from being desecrated? I wonder what their next target will be once they have achieved success there? Coming to some imaginary kingdom-declared illegally occupied place near you soon!
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I could think of a dozen better places to set up a homeless camp. All the cops and reporters should just go home and let them sit around all day long with nothing to do.
Then they'll get bored and go home. If they don't, then cops can make a weekly trip to hand out parking tickets or illegal camping citations..
Run a homeless sweep to clear the road so life can go on.
Those people want to "protect" the mountain while creating more environmental damage to that area in one month than all the years that the observatories have been there.
They are acting like spoiled children Quite frankly, I'm embarrassed to be a Hawaiian now.
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I'd guess it'd end up being way way way more than $50 million (they've spent that $3.2 million in ONE MONTH...no data for August was included)... especially if they keep up the the "traffic enforcement" joke of having "well over" 20 cops up there all day every day, likely utilizing lots of overtime both there and for the officers now having to cover for where those cops would normally be on duty. But, hey, who doesn't think it's all worth it to keep the sacred mauna from being desecrated? I wonder what their next target will be once they have achieved success there? Coming to some imaginary kingdom-declared illegally occupied place near you soon!
That $3.2M was for half a month. The MK protesters didn't start blocking the road until the 15th of July.
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Ok we have to look on the bright side. Lua companies and their drivers are making a lot of money, as is the event tent rentals more gas, diesel and propane being sold. Airlines, hotels and car rentals probably making a little more. More bottled water, soft drinks and snacks.
On a sad note, the guy in Kona that had the Mauna Kea Tours for over 2 decades and over 20 vans is about to go out of business and has laid off most of his staff.
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Diamond Dallas Page has been supporting Mauna Kea for a while now too.
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Diamond Dallas Page has been supporting Mauna Kea for a while now too.
diamond cutter......feel the bang!!!!! :D
(https://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/79443539db5b4d154452c269f3a985d5783802be/c=0-0-2064-2752&r=537&c=0-0-534-712/local/-/media/2017/03/28/NJGroup/AsburyPark/636262704802198585-GettyImages-337794.jpg)
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He sells yoga vids now.
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
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How about this, we figure out how much the telescope would have brought in over its lifetime and then we give the protestors the bill. If they want to pony up all the money to pay for all that has and will be lost then we stop the telescope, otherwise move out of the way and build the damn thing already.
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How about this, we figure out how much the telescope would have brought in over its lifetime and then we give the protestors the bill. If they want to pony up all the money to pay for all that has and will be lost then we stop the telescope, otherwise move out of the way and build the damn thing already.
How about -- No.
You took the time to post that little nugget?
LOL!!! :geekdanc:
Do The Rail next. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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See how bundled up the people up there are during the warmest time of the year". Can’t wait for winter to come, a time of year I normally hate because of the short days.
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Morning news said NZ has extended humanrights to mountains. Didn't get all the details. May be copycat Hawaii will do the same for the "mauna".
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See how bundled up the people up there are during the warmest time of the year". Can’t wait for winter to come, a time of year I normally hate because of the short days.
They'll have fully heated modular homes built by then... probably provided by Lyin' Harry Kim and the county... they don't want any "harm" to come to anyone involved, and will take any measures necessary to make sure everyone is "safe".
Lyin' Harry announced the upcoming second meeting yesterday, but it will not, again, include the actual people organizing the criminal activity. He apparently forgot the exact words to John Lennon's "Imagine" ("And all the world will live as One"), when he ("You may say he's a dreamer") said , instead:
“Right now, there are two sides,” Kim said. “But my dream is that we’ll have only one side someday that we all agree on.”
[Seriously, he said that. At least that's the quote in the Tribune-Herald.]
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There is video at the site where someone, of course, claims that the criminals are only "protecting what actually belongs to us. It’s the settlers state that is breaking the law", and that moving people who resist being moved by using whatever force is necessary to move them is "excessive force". My only disagreement with the former mayor is when he says about "anarchy", "we are going to have..."... what is it now?
Former Maui mayor: On TMT protest, Ige should take a page out of Maui’s playbook
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2019/08/22/strong-reaction-former-maui-mayors-comments-mauna-kea/
Former Maui Mayor Alan Arakawa says the conflict at Mauna Kea has dragged on for too long and the governor needs to take some action to clear the road.
Arakawa claims Gov. David Ige’s delays have created in a no-win situation.
And he added that when he was mayor, officers at Haleakala arrested those protesting the construction of a new telescope on the mountain and cleared the road without excessive force.
“If that kind of action keeps escalating, we are going to have anarchy," he said.
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Price tag for this circus is up to 3 million
pebbles compared to the rail, which i see no current protests for, and manini if any protests in the past, despite it's very existence desecrating iwi land and in general just being a bloody eye sore for me... but --> :stopjack:
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Morning news said NZ has extended humanrights to mountains. Didn't get all the details. May be copycat Hawaii will do the same for the "mauna".
had to read that twice. Gives new meaning to the Pet Rock :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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I found the article. Who wants to bet the protectors are going to see this and demand the same for the "mauna".
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/22/new-zealand-gives-mount-taranaki-same-legal-rights-as-a-person
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had to read that twice. Gives new meaning to the Pet Rock :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
this whole frigging world is going crazy..... :wacko: :wacko: :wacko:
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How about -- No.
You took the time to post that little nugget?
LOL!!! :geekdanc:
Do The Rail next. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Let me paraphrase your reply so everyone can understand what you really meant
"I can't rebut anything you said so I am just going to make fun of you instead" - Flappjackson
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See how bundled up the people up there are during the warmest time of the year". Can’t wait for winter to come, a time of year I normally hate because of the short days.
Once it gets cold it will be so much easier to deal with the crowd. Don't need pepper spray or batons, just spray them with water and let the cold do all the work.
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Once it gets cold it will be so much easier to deal with the crowd. Don't need pepper spray or batons, just spray them with water and let the cold do all the work.
PD would get sued and our bleeding heart justice system will award them thousands for cruel and unusual punishment.
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Let me paraphrase your reply so everyone can understand what you really meant
"I can't rebut anything you said so I am just going to make fun of you instead" - Flappjackson
Let me explain this slowly:
Nonsensical posts that have no basis in anything realistic are not meant to be "rebutted".
If you believe otherwise, it explains a lot about your thought processes. :rofl:
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Let me explain this slowly:
Nonsensical posts that have no basis in anything realistic are not meant to be "rebutted".
If you believe otherwise, it explains a lot about your thought processes. :rofl:
Your mistake was taking it as a literal suggestion.
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so dumb...
https://www.khon2.com/top-stories/uh-students-plan-to-walk-out-of-classes-to-discuss-mauna-kea-issues/ (https://www.khon2.com/top-stories/uh-students-plan-to-walk-out-of-classes-to-discuss-mauna-kea-issues/)
why walk out of a class you paid for?
that's like protesting over a dinner at Mortons when your food arrives.
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so dumb...
https://www.khon2.com/top-stories/uh-students-plan-to-walk-out-of-classes-to-discuss-mauna-kea-issues/ (https://www.khon2.com/top-stories/uh-students-plan-to-walk-out-of-classes-to-discuss-mauna-kea-issues/)
why walk out of a class you paid for?
that's like protesting over a dinner at Mortons when your food arrives.
No matter. They get credit for it. AND when Bernie gets elected, FREE SCHOOL FOR EVERYONE! :thumbsup: :crazy:
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You're mistake was taking it as a literal suggestion.
your mistake was using you're...
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your mistake was using you're...
Setting president 😝
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Setting president 😝
Sitting President
Setting precedent.
;D
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so dumb...
https://www.khon2.com/top-stories/uh-students-plan-to-walk-out-of-classes-to-discuss-mauna-kea-issues/ (https://www.khon2.com/top-stories/uh-students-plan-to-walk-out-of-classes-to-discuss-mauna-kea-issues/)
why walk out of a class you paid for?
that's like protesting over a dinner at Mortons when your food arrives.
Don't waste your money at Mortons. Ruth Chris is way better.
And the Mauna Kea protest cost is now over $4m and they are not accounting for the past two or three weeks.
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your mistake was using you're...
Touche :oops:
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Sitting President
Setting precedent.
;D
We have someone who picks up on such things. Others are seemingly hooked and released on phonics. As if they type how they hear things... ;D
heads
clips
focus
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We have someone who picks up on such things. Others are seemingly hooked and released on phonics. As if they type how they hear things... ;D
heads
clips
focus
Hampster .... :rofl:
“But you don’t know that! I learned to spell it with a P in it so that’s how I spell it.”
https://pjmedia.com/vodkapundit/millennial-writer-cries-for-mother-at-work-when-editor-corrects-her-spelling/
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We have someone who picks up on such things. Others are seemingly hooked and released on phonics. As if they type how they hear things... ;D
heads
clips
focus
tools
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Some guys get tourettes.
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Some guys get tourettes.
https://youtu.be/oCNxGmrBTnY
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I enjoyed his singing , but he better watch out at making that pointing sign.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9m56KE0cDok
This a-hole was a fraud.
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tools
instrument
-
instrument
implement
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implement
thingamajig
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Apparently I have been stirring things up a bit on Facebook. Every time Civil beat posts something not in favor of the TMT I comment and people get bothered. I am surprised how many likes my comments get though. I think the protestors really are a vocal minority.
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I think the protestors really are a vocal minority.
I know they are and the state of Hawaii is afraid of them.
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I know they are and the state of Hawaii is afraid of them.
just like the SuperFerry. Awesome idea. Killed by a small group. We lose. Now we pay hundreds $$$ just to go to neighbor island. Mind as well go mainland for vacation.
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just like the SuperFerry. Awesome idea. Killed by a small group. We lose. Now we pay hundreds $$$ just to go to neighbor island. Mind as well go mainland for vacation.
^^^^This, when the wife and I first met, she wanted to go to outer island for vacay. Told her a weekend will cost us prob about $700. At the time, vacations HI had a 5 night for $400 per person. Including meals.
Then she wanted to go to Turtle Bay instead. Still cost would have been $700 for the weekend. So we waiting and went to Vegas instead.
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Interesting find partially thanks to the telescopes up Mauna Kea
https://youtu.be/6dUYK41ElO0
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lots of pretty trucks today with pretty flags
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Interesting find partially thanks to the telescopes up Mauna Kea
https://youtu.be/6dUYK41ElO0
Actually it usually takes more than one telescope to determine the parameters
expressed in the video. Telescopes all over the world with different capabilities are
used to characterize such a finding.
I've always viewed this hunt for life outside of earth as a waste of money and talent.
It is all about trying to disprove the existence of a "creator".
Statistically if you buy into the Science that life developed from a "primordial Goo"
life will be everywhere. But what good is that when, with the present physics we
know about, that life, is so far away, in time, that it is, irrelevant.
I'm not trying to get religious here. I made a very good living working on Mauna Kea.
I think that their work should continue, as long as I don't have to pay to support it.
But it is as much BS as the "Sacredness" of a rock in the middle of the Pacific.
Money talks and the whole thing is about money.
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lots of pretty trucks today with pretty flags
But upside down ;)
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But upside down ;)
some people live in that world...
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some people live in that world...
Yeah, sad no? Is there help for da lolo?
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Yeah, sad no? Is there help for da lolo?
...
Send fire truck up there at 2am and hose'em down while the temperature drops to 30 degrees.
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...
Send fire truck up there at 2am and hose'em down while the temperature drops to 30 degrees.
Wouldn't be a false alarm if a few tents also happen to be on fire.
Hypothetically, of course. :thumbsup:
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Wouldn't be a false alarm if a few tents also happen to be on fire.
Hypothetically, of course. :thumbsup:
Hmmmmmmmmmm sounds good to me! :rofl:
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A group of singers have produced a feel-good song about the "sacred" mauna. It's the fashionable thing to do nowadays.
I have to wonder if these fashionable people have any idea what kind of financial burden the blockade is hoisting on the entire state as well as the people and businesses on the Big Island?
Yes, I have substantial Hawaiian blood in me and I am proud be Hawaiian, but I'm not stupid either.
This crap is costing EVERYBODY money.... and for what?
I feel like refusing to pay any taxes until this unnecessary madness is cleared out.
Why should we coddle these people? They can protest all they want on the side of the road.
OK I'm done ranting
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OK I'm done ranting
No, you speak common sense. Something the kanaka lolos on the mauna no understand. May be when it starts to affect their Sec 8 and EBT cards.
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A group of singers have produced a feel-good song about the "sacred" mauna. It's the fashionable thing to do nowadays.
I have to wonder if these fashionable people have any idea what kind of financial burden the blockade is hoisting on the entire state as well as the people and businesses on the Big Island?
Yes, I have substantial Hawaiian blood in me and I am proud be Hawaiian, but I'm not stupid either.
This crap is costing EVERYBODY money.... and for what?
I feel like refusing to pay any taxes until this unnecessary madness is cleared out.
Why should we coddle these people? They can protest all they want on the side of the road.
OK I'm done ranting
My Hawaiian friend is in agreement with you. He also mentioned that our state is far from distress and that the TMT would be a good thing for the State. He also mentioned that while culture is important to sustain we need marketable skills for our children.
Interesting as my relatives from Tahiti stopped by this weekend. I didn't realize how socialist Tahiti is and they are heavily dependent on tourism.
hmmm...environment sounds familiar to ours... unions....
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2018/02/17/tahi-f17.html (https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2018/02/17/tahi-f17.html)
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On the Governor website, David Ige said the protesters say they will not compromise, so that leaves the state with few options and as governor I have to enforce the law. After 10 years of legal wrangling, the courts have ruled that the TMT has the legal right to proceed. So I wonder what that means. Will he finally order that the road be cleared? I have my doubts about that, but he may surprise me.
Even more important.....
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No, you speak common sense. Something the kanaka lolos on the mauna no understand. May be when it starts to affect their Sec 8 and EBT cards.
What makes you think all the protestors on Mauna Kea are on Section 8 housing and receive government assistance?
In fact, there are a number of Hawaiians on the mauna who are very highly educated and working professionals, who are smart enough not to make such socio-economically racist comments like yours.
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No, you speak common sense. Something the kanaka lolos on the mauna no understand. May be when it starts to affect their Sec 8 and EBT cards.
What makes you think all the protestors on Mauna Kea are on Section 8 housing and receive government assistance?
In fact, there are a number of Hawaiians on the mauna who are very highly educated and working professionals, who are smart enough not to make such socio-economically racist comments like yours.
Negative stereotype yes. Racist no.
I won't hire you because you are of <insert race here>. = Racism
I won't rent my apartment to you because of your race. = Racism
I believe the ones that are highly educated and professionals are seeking opportunity out of this circus. The OHA trustees, the actors, the musicians, are using this as a platform to further opportunities for THEMSELVES. "look at me".
If flying flags upside down in the bed of the white man's truck on weekends is the extent of this "movement" it will not gain any traction. Making a song? See above.
Protest something with a little more substance. A military base? A large commercial development? Luxury condos? A rail project that desecrates the aina every day. The homeless that shit all over the land. The motorcross bikes that tear up the countryside.
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I did not say all. I personally know some up there that are receiving government assistance. I also realize that some are highly educated, but being highly educated does not necessarily make you a “smart” person. And I will and have called people of my own race stupid for actions that they have done. I have done stupid stuff in the past that I wish I hadn't, but this political correctness and racist bullshit makes me sick. People are afraid to tell it like it is because they might offend someone. My wife's grandparents were pure Hawaiian and she also thinks the protesters are wrong as do many other Hawaiians. Polls have shown that the overwhelming majority of Hawaii residents favor building the TMT. Among native Hawaiians 48% oppose, 44% are in favor and the 8% are either unsure or don't care one way or the other.
Remember H3? Mile for mile the most expensive highway ever built? A lot of that was due to protesters of a certain ethnic group bringing decades of legal challenges concerning their sacred valley. I'll bet you those same ones are happy to use that highway and enjoy the magnificent views of windward Oahu while driving on it. A half Hawaiian friend of mine called the ones of his ethnicity stupid a-holes when they were protesting building the first 7-11 in Kaaawa. He later told me those are the ones he always see there buying Big Gulp, hot dogs, beer, cigarettes and spam musubi.
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Negative stereotype yes. Racist no.
I won't hire you because you are of <insert race here>. = Racism
I won't rent my apartment to you because of your race. = Racism
I believe the ones that are highly educated and professionals are seeking opportunity out of this circus. The OHA trustees, the actors, the musicians, are using this as a platform to further opportunities for THEMSELVES. "look at me".
If flying flags upside down in the bed of the white man's truck on weekends is the extent of this "movement" it will not gain any traction. Making a song? See above.
Protest something with a little more substance. A military base? A large commercial development? Luxury condos? A rail project that desecrates the aina every day. The homeless that shit all over the land. The motorcross bikes that tear up the countryside.
The poster referred to all the Kanaka lolos on the mauna meaning all the Hawaiians on the mauna are all lolo. Second, he commented on how all the Kanaka lolos dependence on Section 8 housing and food stamps will greatly affect their long-term ability to maintain their protest, which is incorrect in that there are professional lawyers, doctors, college professors, etc. who have and continue to protest on Mauna Kea that are not affiliated with the ilk of OHA and others who just want to make a name for themselves.
Very socio-economically racist comment to me.
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No, you speak common sense. Something the kanaka lolos on the mauna no understand. May be when it starts to affect their Sec 8 and EBT cards.
Where did I say “all”?
Let me put it this way. If I said all the low IQ kids go public school, does that mean all the kids that go public school get low IQ? If I said the stupid kids at _____ high school vandalized the gym, does that mean all the kids at _____ high school vandalized the gym?
I know a male dancer in a halau on Oahu who twice went to the mauna to dance in a protest. His reason? Free trip to the BI. He told me he doesn’t give a shit what happens over there, but when he was offered a free trip to dance hula there, he couldn’t resist. This was during the previous protest, not the current one. Some may be up there because it currently is the “cool” thing to do. It will be a lot cooler in a couple of months.
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well, winter is not far away...snowflakes will dance in the snow.
I've endured a lot of stereotypes - not racist.
Some people expect me to impress them with my innate kung fu skills. Imagine the surprise when I tell them I was a B boy.
I hate doing laundry.
I don't like rice.
I can't change people's perceptions. I know they are not racist.
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Where did I say “all”?
Let me put it this way. If I said all the low IQ kids go public school, does that mean all the kids that go public school get low IQ? If I said the stupid kids at _____ high school vandalized the gym, does that mean all the kids at _____ high school vandalized the gym?
I know a male dancer in a halau on Oahu who twice went to the mauna to dance in a protest. His reason? Free trip to the BI. He told me he doesn’t give a shit what happens over there, but when he was offered a free trip to dance hula there, he couldn’t resist. This was during the previous protest, not the current one. Some may be up there because it currently is the “cool” thing to do. It will be a lot cooler in a couple of months.
I know there are some Kanaka who are also lolo that have gone to Mauna Kea. If you added an additional phrase clarifying that you meant only a certain portion of the kanaka on the mauna as being lolo, your meaning would have been much clearer.
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I know there are some Kanaka who are also lolo that have gone to Mauna Kea. If you added an additional phrase clarifying that you meant only a certain portion of the kanaka on the mauna as being lolo, your meaning would have been much clearer.
I did not mean to offend. Please accept my apology.
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$$$$
New tally released today......3.7 Million tax dollars
Let's all think about that one for a while.
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$$$$
New tally released today......3.7 Million tax dollars
Let's all think about that one for a while.
that's OK. The State of Hawaii taxpayers have a lot of money. :thumbsup: We are home to America's number 1 Toyota Tacoma and 4Runner dealership! I heard Servco (the only Toyota dealership in Hawaii - ain't that a crock) will even give you a free upside down flag with every truck purchase.
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$$$$
New tally released today......3.7 Million tax dollars
Let's all think about that one for a while.
The August 21 report said Hawai’i County spend $3.3 million on costs from July 15 to August 19. The Att Gen Office said they spend $600,000 and another agency $173,000. That is $4 million already up to August 19. No wonder they cannot fix the few potholes on Hwy 11 between Volcano and Hilo.
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I did not mean to offend. Please accept my apology.
No need to apologize; just a misunderstanding.
By-the-way, if there is someone who is anti-Hawaiian, it must be me, since I openly share my hatred for OHA, remember. :shaka:
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Kuleana - Are you opposed to TMT based on primarily TMT issues? Such as the Mauna being sacred, or other TMT driven reasons. Or primarily based on what happened in the past and TMT is a “current events” line in the sand?
Not that you need a reason, nor do all opposed to TMT need to ha aligned with a single reason.
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No need to apologize; just a misunderstanding.
By-the-way, if there is someone who is anti-Hawaiian, it must be me, since I openly share my hatred for OHA, remember. :shaka:
As you should be. OHA is complicit with this state's corrupt government, that screw not only Hawaiians, but everyone else in this state.
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At this point might be cheaper to helicopter all the construction goods up. Or stick it in armored vehicles with a plow on them and ignore all obstacles.
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The state is about to get a bill for the illegal buildings (non permitted) that are being built as an expansion of their school
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At this point might be cheaper to helicopter all the construction goods up.
That is a really good idea. It is a tough climb for a vehicle to get up there. I drove to the summit once. They don’t allow you to drive past the visitor center unless you have an AWD or 4WD vehicle. The visitor center is 4.5 miles below the summit. I cannot imagine a tractor trailer carrying heavy equipment up there. It is a steep gravel road.
And I don’t think moving all the equipment by helicopter will cost anywhere close to $3 million.
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At this point might be cheaper to helicopter all the construction goods up. Or stick it in armored vehicles with a plow on them and ignore all obstacles.
expect a laser light show from the locals
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expect a laser light show from the locals
Then the Feds can get involved. Penalties can be as severe as 5 years in a Fed pen and $250k fine.
Problem I see with a helicopter is the biggest heavy lift chopper can only lift 14.5 tons externally. Even a D6 dozer is 18 tons.
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Then the Feds can get involved. Penalties can be as severe as 5 years in a Fed pen and $250k fine.
Problem I see with a helicopter is the biggest heavy lift chopper can only lift 14.5 tons externally. Even a D6 dozer is 18 tons.
US Imperialism!
Colonialism!
Racists!
Trump's fault!
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The state is about to get a bill for the illegal buildings (non permitted) that are being built as an expansion of their school
====================
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2019/09/04/state-not-tmt-protesters-could-face-hefty-fines-unpermitted-structure/
Those protesters need to go. This is getting way out of hand.
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It is a nice building. I am sure it did not go up in a day. Why was it not stopped when the foundation was started? At this point, I would like to see this go on for at least another six months. I want to see how far the state will let this go. One of the builders said it was for “the children.” A safe haven for the keiki was his words.
Hey I wonder if he could donate his time to build a small house on my property.
DHHL said it will be removed “when resources become available.” Translation “not in the near future, possibly never. It might be sacred you know.”
This is better than any Korean soap opera. (My apologies to any Koreans amongst us.)
Disclaimer, political correctness statement. “I am not a racist.”
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====================
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2019/09/04/state-not-tmt-protesters-could-face-hefty-fines-unpermitted-structure/
Those protesters need to go. This is getting way out of hand.
Ainokea I build where I like! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Isn't that desecration of the land?
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Disclaimer, political correctness statement. “I am not a racist.”
Pretty sure that anyone who feels compelled to state "I am not a racist" IS, by definition, a racist.
Couple that with the fact that if you don't deny you are a racist it proves you are a racist... and... game, set, match.
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Ok I change my statement to "Ainokea wat you stay tink."
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Ok I change my statement to "Ainokea wat you stay tink."
Too late now, eh?
Besides we all know that anyone who opposes the racist criminals blocking the public roadway MUST be a racist. Why else would they want to suppress the oppressed?
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Oh, I wen change sides. I lik dem guys stick it to da crooked Hawaii gavament.
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Why else would they want to reppress the oppressed?
(http://www.okmoviequotes.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/2-Monty-Python-and-the-Holy-Grail-quotes.gif)
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Kuleana - Are you opposed to TMT based on primarily TMT issues? Such as the Mauna being sacred, or other TMT driven reasons. Or primarily based on what happened in the past and TMT is a “current events” line in the sand?
Not that you need a reason, nor do all opposed to TMT need to ha aligned with a single reason.
First of all, as an avid fan of Star Trek, I love science. Hence, all of the reasons for the building TMT are logical and makes perfect sense.
However, you are very perspective. My opposition to TMT has more to do with solidarity with Hawaiians who have chosen to protest TMT as well as to those who have begun to openly display the Hawaiian National Flag in distress, both in response to all that was illegally taken away back in 1898.
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First of all, as an avid fan of Star Trek, I love science. Hence, all of the reasons for the building TMT are logical and makes perfect sense.
However, you are very perspective. My opposition to TMT has more to do with solidarity with Hawaiians who have chosen to protest TMT as well as to those who have begun to openly display the Hawaiian National Flag in distress, both in response to all that was illegally taken away back in 1898.
Got it. This question came from discussions that I've had with a few friends and friends of friends on TMT where I found feedback from those folks were mostly from a viewpoint similar to yours (the current events line in the sand) and not really against the TMT, at least primary issue or principle. That view point also often seemed to be poisoned affected by many misconceptions/myths about the TMT, such as TMT needing a 500 foot deep foundation that would massively impact/scar the mountain. Where the tsunami of emotion overwhelmed rational thought in many cases.
Then there's the seemingly trendy aspect of the TMT protests. Reminds me of when I lives in Seattle during the WTO riots. Folks (probably current day antifa) would walk down Broadway Ave going to groups of people and basically say "Hey, I'm going to downtown to protest the WTO, wanna join us?" and many groups were like "dunno what WTO is, but hey! Fight the power!". What are your thoughts on the seemingly trendy aspect of TMT protests?
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A nation in distress? I look around and people are prosperous with access to housing and food. There isn't genocide and the govt. surely isn't killing or jailing people. IN fact, they are afraid of the people on Mauna Kea. They are building on sacred land. Where did all that good construction supplies and skills come from? A distressed nation?
Let's not blow things out of proportion.
Hong Kong is in distress.
Parts of Africa are in distress.
Rohingyas are in distress.
Syria is in distress.
A nation is not in distress when they can spend the weekend in truck cruises with upside down flags. Play the victim card long enough and that's all you'll be.
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Then there's the seemingly trendy aspect of the TMT protests.
Wrote elsewhere how the proteckstahs and the BS had echoes of the Vietnam war protests I saw when going to Santa Monica College.
It was quite clear is was a "kool kids" thing to "do", with thought no more deep that maybe it was an easy way to score chicks.
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Got it. This question came from discussions that I've had with a few friends and friends of friends on TMT where I found feedback from those folks were mostly from a viewpoint similar to yours (the current events line in the sand) and not really against the TMT, at least primary issue or principle. That view point also often seemed to be poisoned affected by many misconceptions/myths about the TMT, such as TMT needing a 500 foot deep foundation that would massively impact/scar the mountain. Where the tsunami of emotion overwhelmed rational thought in many cases.
Then there's the seemingly trendy aspect of the TMT protests. Reminds me of when I lives in Seattle during the WTO riots. Folks (probably current day antifa) would walk down Broadway Ave going to groups of people and basically say "Hey, I'm going to downtown to protest the WTO, wanna join us?" and many groups were like "dunno what WTO is, but hey! Fight the power!". What are your thoughts on the seemingly trendy aspect of TMT protests?
There are a number of fake protestors on Mauna Kea. Everyone already knows about the politicians/CEOs/entertainers as well as that segment of youth who are there out of curiosity or nothing better to do. You also have those individuals who are there to sell t-shirts. It is nice to see those kinds of protestors out on the mauna, but they are what they are.
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A nation in distress? I look around and people are prosperous with access to housing and food. There isn't genocide and the govt. surely isn't killing or jailing people. IN fact, they are afraid of the people on Mauna Kea. They are building on sacred land. Where did all that good construction supplies and skills come from? A distressed nation?
Let's not blow things out of proportion.
Hong Kong is in distress.
Parts of Africa are in distress.
Rohingyas are in distress.
Syria is in distress.
A nation is not in distress when they can spend the weekend in truck cruises with upside down flags. Play the victim card long enough and that's all you'll be.
Hawaiians are not playing the victim card.
The nation state of Hawaii is an internationally recognized country that is being illegally occupied by the US and that is the underlying reason Hawaiians have and will continue to be angry.
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Hey with free food, who can resist? I would go there for free eats too but the distance from my home makes it not worth it. With all the cars up there it is a long walk from where you can park to the food tent.
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Hawaiians are not playing the victim card.
The nation state of Hawaii is an internationally recognized country that is being illegally occupied by the US and that is the underlying reason Hawaiians have and will continue to be angry.
Angry but not in distress.
While there are real people in distress, i.e. the Bahamas; your nation is in distress because an international coalition of scientists want to build a one-of-a-kind telescope on Mauna Kea. Stand in "solidarity" with the vocal and oppressive minority? Same thing as protesting the first Chick Fil-A in Hawaii. Want to protest something meaningful? Something symbolic of "illegal occupation"? There are many on this island alone.
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Hawaiians are not playing the victim card.
The nation state of Hawaii is an internationally recognized country that is being illegally occupied by the US and that is the underlying reason Hawaiians have and will continue to be angry.
Sure they're not playing the victim card. Not at all. Certainly there's no evidence of that.
Hawaiian Kingdom Blog
Weblog of the acting government of the Hawaiian Kingdom
presently operating within the occupied State of the Hawaiian Islands.
Under International Law Native Hawaiians are Victims of Genocide
Posted on May 8, 2016
Under international humanitarian law, which includes the law of occupation and the protection afforded civilians who are
not engaged in war, denationalization is not only a war crime but is synonymous with the term genocide. Since the
occupation of the Hawaiian Kingdom began during the Spanish-American War, the United States embarked on a deliberate
campaign of forced denationalization in order to conceal the occupation and militarization of a neutral State. Denationalization,
in its totality, is genocide.
https://hawaiiankingdom.org/blog/under-international-law-native-hawaiians-are-victims-of-genocide/
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Traffic alert for everyone
Mauna truck cruise this weekend
I'm trying to figure out how to post the screenshot I took.
It says the file is to large
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Sure they're not playing the victim card. Not at all. Certainly there's no evidence of that.
Hawaiian Kingdom Blog
Weblog of the acting government of the Hawaiian Kingdom
presently operating within the occupied State of the Hawaiian Islands.
https://hawaiiankingdom.org/blog/under-international-law-native-hawaiians-are-victims-of-genocide/
The soultuion is easy, eject all Democrats from Hawaii.
Who ever is left over can figure out the situation.
Maybe set something up like Guam.
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The soultuion is easy, eject all Democrats from Hawaii.
Who ever is left over can figure out the situation.
Maybe set something up like Guam.
The US Constitutionally legal solution is much more easier than that.
The US deoccupies Hawaii and the country returns to its internationally recognized neutral status in the Pacific.
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The US Constitutionally legal solution is much more easier than that.
The US deoccupies Hawaii and the country returns to its internationally recognized neutral status in the Pacific.
China Bribes the nation of New Hawaii leaders and annexes Hawaii 5 years after "self rule" is reinstated.
Hawaii becomes another Hong Kong.
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Wrote elsewhere how the proteckstahs and the BS had echoes of the Vietnam war protests I saw when going to Santa Monica College.
It was quite clear is was a "kool kids" thing to "do", with thought no more deep that maybe it was an easy way to score chicks.
The "kool kids" aspect of a lot of activism that I see today is what gets to me. Much like socialism seems to be en vogue today, which IMO is usually from those that have never meaningfully contributed to the system in the first place. Or lots of activists who scream "I know my rights" but many times I don't really think they appreciate what they are protesting other than "fight the Power" or many times even live/act in a hypocritical manner to their activism.
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There are a number of fake protestors on Mauna Kea. Everyone already knows about the politicians/CEOs/entertainers as well as that segment of youth who are there out of curiosity or nothing better to do. You also have those individuals who are there to sell t-shirts. It is nice to see those kinds of protestors out on the mauna, but they are what they are.
Interesting choice of words that I didn't think I'd hear/see coming from you.
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There are a number of fake protestors on Mauna Kea. Everyone already knows about the politicians/CEOs/entertainers as well as that segment of youth who are there out of curiosity or nothing better to do. You also have those individuals who are there to sell t-shirts. It is nice to see those kinds of protestors out on the mauna, but they are what they are.
Care to estimate/speculate on what that number might be?
Don't need a count. A percentage or fraction would be adequate. Anything that encapsulates the ratio of actual Hawaiians fighting for their spiritual/religious beliefs versus those who just want to protest anything that resembles their struggle against the oppressive and illegal US occupation.
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Mayor Kim is well aware of the legal status of Hawaii in relation to the USA.
Let's not open that can of worms and stay on topic with TMT.
:stopjack:
Man, I hope your New Year's Resolutions fare better than the "stay on topic" thing did. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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The US Constitutionally legal solution is much more easier than that.
The US deoccupies Hawaii and the country returns to its internationally recognized neutral status in the Pacific.
Better off to going back to being a "Territory"
Guamanians have more gun rights than we do.
Plus we'd get rid of the obnoxious Democrats
in the American Senate and congress.
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Care to estimate/speculate on what that number might be?
Don't need a count. A percentage or fraction would be adequate. Anything that encapsulates the ratio of actual Hawaiians fighting for their spiritual/religious beliefs versus those who just want to protest anything that resembles their struggle against the oppressive and illegal US occupation.
Just posting on interesting things I've seen on Facebook, but there seems to be, or perhaps always has been a divide among Christian Hawaiians who the Mauna kanaka don't want up there.
Also saw other posts about someone wanting to teach about "drag queens" or a drag show or something along those lines at their mauna university and they got denied.
Just things I've seen online, I haven't been up there
I think its funny though, you can only be a part of our protest if you do what we say
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I have an idea of how to settle the TMT dispute. It would be what the state did with Bumpy Kanahele and his occupation of Makapuu Beach Park. To get him and his followers out, the state gave them land in the back of Waimanalo where they could pretty much have their own little Hawaiian sanctuary.
The TMT is going to use 5 acres. Give the TMT opposition the same amount of land. They can chose where but it has to be out of sight from the highway. There they can build their schools, altars and run their little sanctuary the way they see fit, as long as they are not breaking any laws that people on the outside obey.
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Traffic alert for everyone
Mauna truck cruise this weekend
I'm trying to figure out how to post the screenshot I took.
It says the file is to large
put a link
or type a general schedule
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That illegal wood building is going byby. Geez, it's about time.
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That illegal wood building is going byby. Geez, it's about time.
They should be fined for building without a permit and anything else the laws allow.
I'm thinking $4M should just about cover the fine. :geekdanc:
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That illegal wood building is going byby. Geez, it's about time.
they should've held a Hawaiian music rave/trance event with international DJs supporting like Tiesto, Armin Van Buuren, Above and Beyond...
protestors can take turns pushing the button
(https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.ytimg.com%2Fvi%2F-WcQlqlGPng%2Fhqdefault.jpg&f=1&nofb=1)
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They should be fined for building without a permit and anything else the laws allow.
I'm thinking $4M should just about cover the fine. :geekdanc:
That would require enforcing the law. That ain't gonna happen here. These people have been victimized for 126 years already... can't pile on the poor helpless creatures.
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They should be fined for building without a permit and anything else the laws allow.
I'm thinking $4M should just about cover the fine. :geekdanc:
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They should be fined?
But who exactly is "they".
Is there a legitimate person or organization responsible for the protesters?
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They should be fined?
But who exactly is "they".
Is there a legitimate person or organization responsible for the protesters?
There must be witnesses to the building of the structure who can identify those directly responsible for its construction.
You know, like the Cops and other state personnel on site every single day which tax payers must pay to be there?
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===========
They should be fined?
But who exactly is "they".
Is there a legitimate person or organization responsible for the protesters?
They likely wouldn't technically qualify as a defendant in a lawsuit, but you could try NAMI (National Alliance on Mental Illness).
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UNBELIEVABLE! They actually enforced a law! I'm stunned.
(https://i.imgur.com/5aj4DGK.png)
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2019/09/06/state-crews-arrive-dismantle-illegal-wooden-structure-mauna-kea-protest-camp/
Only two arrested for their vigorous expression of "kapu aloha".
EDIT: According to the article many people were "shouting" as the building was being deconstructed... I hope to see that video soon with full sound so I can hear just what "kapu aloha" sounds like.
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UNBELIEVABLE! They actually enforced a law! I'm stunned.
(https://i.imgur.com/5aj4DGK.png)
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2019/09/06/state-crews-arrive-dismantle-illegal-wooden-structure-mauna-kea-protest-camp/
Only two arrested for their vigorous expression of "kapu aloha".
How much in Union Labor and equipment rental is the demolition and disposal of that building going to add to the tax payer's costs?
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How much in Union Labor and equipment rental is the demolition and disposal of that building going to add to the tax payer's costs?
Money is no object!
Ua Mau ke Ea o ka ʻĀina i ka Pono
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How much in Union Labor and equipment rental is the demolition and disposal of that building going to add to the tax payer's costs?
Prob cost way more to demolish than build, even if the building labor wasn't volunteer.
I should have put a bid in for 1/2 of what they wanted. Push em close to the hot lava and let it burn to the grown. No demo clean up either.
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they enforced the law and took down the structure bc if they didn't, the state would face fines, not the protesters
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2019/09/04/state-not-tmt-protesters-could-face-hefty-fines-unpermitted-structure/
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They should have just torched it in place and let everyone watch.
The comments online are hilarious. Protestors crying their flag got cut in half and that's illegal.
When asked who will enforce that law they claim the UN.
Anywho sounds like there was a week advance notice that the structure would be removed
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Mayor Harry Kim told Hawaii News Now the county doesn’t know who built it so the property owner, the Department of Hawaiian Homelands, is responsible and could be fined more than $1,000 per day.
in the video, you can clearly see who is constructing the building
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in the video, you can clearly see who is constructing the building
They have a video interview with one guy... on a major network news channel.
Lyin' Harry Kim doing what he does best (lyin').
(https://i.imgur.com/CUuJFoI.png)
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Truck cruise Sunday with full escort from the oppressors.
HK to Waianae somewhere
8am
They can cut our flag, but still we will truck cruise on
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10157418919245479&id=192156350478&fs=1&focus_composer=0
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put a link
or type a general schedule
When I was at the range today, I heads about a big traffic jam headed to Hawaii Kai around 1ish. I wonder if that was part of it.
There was traffic on H1 wear around UH on the way home, but figured it was regular afternoon traffic.
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Truck cruise tomorrow, with full escort from the oppressors.
HK to Waianae somewhere
8am
They can cut our flag, but still we will truck cruise on
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10157418919245479&id=192156350478&fs=1&focus_composer=0
Interesting. I wonder how the “they will all be in a single lane and obey all traffic laws” thing will work out.
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When I was at the range today, I heads about a big traffic jam headed to Hawaii Kai around 1ish. I wonder if that was part of it.
There was traffic on H1 wear around UH on the way home, but figured it was regular afternoon traffic.
I will be at my home away from home in Waimanalo watching football.
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I will be at my home away from home in Waimanalo watching football.
Nice!
I’ll be headed to HK (opposite from planned protest path) for some football, bbq and beers. Hope it’s all cleared by then.
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Sorry the cruise is on Sunday
I heard there will be people protesting against this as well
Should be interesting to watch
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Sorry the cruise is on Sunday
I heard there will be people protesting against this as well
Should be interesting to watch
No matter. I will be watching football on Sunday too.
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https://www.khon2.com/news/mauna-convoy-to-travel-across-oahu-sunday/
HPD will be escorting the convoy
so now we have to put up with this BS. supported by HPD, DOT, and C&C?
this is F'n bullcrap!!!! :grrr:
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https://www.khon2.com/news/mauna-convoy-to-travel-across-oahu-sunday/
HPD will be escorting the convoy
so now we have to put up with this BS. supported by HPD, DOT, and C&C?
this is F'n bullcrap!!!! :grrr:
Virtually everything they do lends credence to the absurd claims of "illegal invasion", etc. by 1. supporting it directly or indirectly, or 2. not taking action to stop criminal activity or 3. as in the press conference today, Ige, the AG, and the DOT spokesperson apologized profusely multiple times for inadvertently "harming" the flag the criminals had nailed to the plywood blocking the door to the illegal structure. I thought they might start crying. Had Green been there he no doubt would have wept uncontrollably. Disgusting.
EDIT: OHA chimes in to the blubber and whine fest:
"...the particularly offensive way todayʻs selective enforcement was carried out, which included the wholly unnecessary sawing of a Hawaiian flag, is deeply troubling, and further adds to the trauma of the Native Hawaiian people and could have escalated an already tense situation."
How can "kapu aloha" be "escalated"?
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Virtually everything they do lends credence to the absurd claims of "illegal invasion", etc. by 1. supporting it directly or indirectly, or 2. not taking action to stop criminal activity or 3. as in the press conference today, Ige, the AG, and the DOT spokesperson apologized profusely multiple times for inadvertently "harming" the flag the criminals had nailed to the plywood blocking the door to the illegal structure. I thought they might start crying. Had Green been there he no doubt would have wept uncontrollably. Disgusting.
EDIT: OHA chimes in to the blubber and whine fest:
"...the particularly offensive way todayʻs selective enforcement was carried out, which included the wholly unnecessary sawing of a Hawaiian flag, is deeply troubling, and further adds to the trauma of the Native Hawaiian people and could have escalated an already tense situation."
How can "kapu aloha" be "escalated"?
Let's understand this.
An illegal structure was erected on the land with no EIS and OHA is crying about the desecration of the State flag erected by miscreants?
And now we law-abiding folk have to tolerate a protest movement via a car & truck cruise? How silly is this going to get? How is this "nation in distress" and "traumatized" again?
I will post this to show what a nation in distress looks like:
(https://static01.nyt.com/images/2016/09/19/world/19int-syria-1/19int-syria-1-superJumbo.jpg)
(https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fsa.kapamilya.com%2Fabsnews%2Fabscbnnews%2Fmedia%2F2017%2Fnews%2F09%2F15%2F1.jpg&f=1&nofb=1)
not in distress:
(https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic3.businessinsider.com%2Fimage%2F558b73906bb3f792413f3687-1200%2Fbut-theres-also-the-hawaiian-national-flag-the-colors-represent-a-nation-that-existed-before-british-explorers-arrived-in-the-1800s.jpg&f=1&nofb=1)
(https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fd1l18ops95qbzp.cloudfront.net%2Fwp-content%2F2018%2F07%2FKamehameha-III-dedication-Thomas-Square-upside-down-Hawaiian-flag-640x402.jpg&f=1&nofb=1)
and OUR USA in NOT in distress:
(https://amp.businessinsider.com/images/564cb694dd0895eb5b8b4577-960-640.jpg)
and this is what we will miss out on:
https://www.businessinsider.com/30-meter-telescope-should-be-built-mauna-kea-2015-8 (https://www.businessinsider.com/30-meter-telescope-should-be-built-mauna-kea-2015-8)
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https://www.khon2.com/news/mauna-convoy-to-travel-across-oahu-sunday/
HPD will be escorting the convoy
so now we have to put up with this BS. supported by HPD, DOT, and C&C?
this is F'n bullcrap!!!! :grrr:
What BS?
IMUA!
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Virtually everything they do lends credence to the absurd claims of "illegal invasion", etc. by 1. supporting it directly or indirectly, or 2. not taking action to stop criminal activity or 3. as in the press conference today, Ige, the AG, and the DOT spokesperson apologized profusely multiple times for inadvertently "harming" the flag the criminals had nailed to the plywood blocking the door to the illegal structure. I thought they might start crying. Had Green been there he no doubt would have wept uncontrollably. Disgusting.
No, just because you disagree does not mean Hawaii is not being illegally being occupied by the US.
The US and so-called state government of Hawaii knows that Hawaii is illegally occupied by the US. Remember the Clinton Apology Resolution in 1993? The US Government already admitted to the facts that I have shared on this forum for some time now. Since 1993, more legal evidence was brought forward conclusively proving that the annexation of Hawaii by the US in 1898 was illegal, since it violated US Constitutional Law. And the US and so-called Hawaii state government know this fact very well also.
That is why they are responding the way they are.
Aloha! :shaka:
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Let's understand this.
An illegal structure was erected on the land with no EIS and OHA is crying about the desecration of the State flag erected by miscreants?
And now we law-abiding folk have to tolerate a protest movement via a car & truck cruise? How silly is this going to get? How is this "nation in distress" and "traumatized" again?
I will post this to show what a nation in distress looks like:
(https://static01.nyt.com/images/2016/09/19/world/19int-syria-1/19int-syria-1-superJumbo.jpg)
(https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fsa.kapamilya.com%2Fabsnews%2Fabscbnnews%2Fmedia%2F2017%2Fnews%2F09%2F15%2F1.jpg&f=1&nofb=1)
not in distress:
(https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic3.businessinsider.com%2Fimage%2F558b73906bb3f792413f3687-1200%2Fbut-theres-also-the-hawaiian-national-flag-the-colors-represent-a-nation-that-existed-before-british-explorers-arrived-in-the-1800s.jpg&f=1&nofb=1)
(https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fd1l18ops95qbzp.cloudfront.net%2Fwp-content%2F2018%2F07%2FKamehameha-III-dedication-Thomas-Square-upside-down-Hawaiian-flag-640x402.jpg&f=1&nofb=1)
and OUR USA in NOT in distress:
(https://amp.businessinsider.com/images/564cb694dd0895eb5b8b4577-960-640.jpg)
and this is what we will miss out on:
https://www.businessinsider.com/30-meter-telescope-should-be-built-mauna-kea-2015-8 (https://www.businessinsider.com/30-meter-telescope-should-be-built-mauna-kea-2015-8)
If you had your nation illegally taken away from you, you would be singing a different tune.
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No, just because you disagree does not mean Hawaii is not being illegally being occupied by the US.
The US and so-called state government of Hawaii knows that Hawaii is illegally occupied by the US. Remember the Clinton Apology Resolution in 1993? The US Government already admitted to the facts that I have shared on this forum for some time now. Since 1993, more legal evidence was brought forward conclusively proving that the annexation of Hawaii by the US in 1898 was illegal, since it violated US Constitutional Law. And the US and so-called Hawaii state government know this fact very well also.
That is why they are responding the way they are.
Aloha! :shaka:
What BS?
THAT BS.
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THAT BS.
Opinions vary.
By the way, have you gone to Mauna Kea and tried to share your thoughts and views with the protestors?
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If you had your nation illegally taken away from you, you would be singing a different tune.
I'm of British heritage. Do you hear me incessantly whining about how the traitorous American colonists illegally rebelled and stole the British colonies from Great Britain?
Nobody is that stupid. A few people are, however, stupid enough to believe those kinds of lies about the history of this place. We see them repeating the lies and criminally blocking public roadways and spouting nonsense about "sacred" this and "sacred" that... yeah, some claimed that the building demolished today was "sacred". You can't make up this level of stupid... and lying. Pathetic. Even more pathetic is that the cowardly state and county government officials violate their oaths of office by allowing the continued criminality. Pathetic.
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Opinions vary.
By the way, have you gone to Mauna Kea and tried to share your thoughts and views with the protestors?
I went out into my yard and shared my thoughts and views with a rock... figured that would have the same effect. Pretty sure the rock was less brainwashed and more informed.
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I'm of British heritage. Do you hear me incessantly whining about how the traitorous American colonists illegally rebelled and stole the British colonies from Great Britain?
Bad example. The American colonists were mostly subjects of King George III.
Hawaii was an internationally recognized neutral nation by Great Britain, France, the US, etc. The American colonies were not.
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I went out into my yard and shared my thoughts and views with a rock... figured that would have the same effect. Pretty sure the rock was less brainwashed and more informed.
Wow.
Never knew you actually talk to the rocks in your yard. That really explains a lot.
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If you had your nation illegally taken away from you, you would be singing a different tune.
There's that "if" hypothetical - always trying to paint a fantasy; some kind of fork of reality to appeal to someone. Weak argument.
Never will. Never happened. Born here in the 50th State of the United States of America. Proud American.
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There's that "if" hypothetical - always trying to paint a fantasy; some kind of fork of reality to appeal to someone. Weak argument.
Never will. Never happened. Born here in the 50th State of the United States of America. Proud American.
Deny the Clinton Apology Resolution of 1993 and US Constitutional Law all you want.
All that really matters is that we Hawaiians know the truth, the US and so-called Hawaii state government knows the truth, the Court of Arbitration at the Hague knows the truth, and the UN knows the truth.
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Wow.
Never knew you actually talk to the rocks in your yard. That really explains a lot.
Not as dumb as your dumbass repetitive lies and stupidity incapable of distinguishing sarcasm. Plus, I know the rocks are smarter than the criminals up there blocking the road and have a better chance of understanding reason, logic and facts. You prove that on a near daily basis.
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Deny the Clinton Apology Resolution of 1993 and US Constitutional Law all you want.
All that really matters is that we Hawaiians know the truth, the US and so-called Hawaii state government knows the truth, the Court of Arbitration at the Hague knows the truth, and the UN knows the truth.
Your "Clinton Apology Resolution" isn't worth the paper that Democrat propaganda screed was printed on. Passed by ignorant Democratic majority House and Senate who would rubberstamp reparations for squirrels if someone had submitted it.
Read a rebuttal with links to extensive corroborating data here: http://www.hawaiireporter.com/u-s-apology-resolutions-20th-anniversary-repeal-it-dont-celebrate-it/
That's so laughable that you claim "the truth"... what you really mean is that there is an extremely small minority of people who are deluded and delusional who choose to remain ignorant of the real facts because those facts burst their superstitious racist bubble which passes for the only reality they can deal with.
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Your "Clinton Apology Resolution" isn't worth the paper that Democrat propaganda screed was printed on. Passed by ignorant Democratic majority House and Senate who would rubberstamp reparations for squirrels if someone had submitted it.
Read a rebuttal with links to extensive corroborating data here: http://www.hawaiireporter.com/u-s-apology-resolutions-20th-anniversary-repeal-it-dont-celebrate-it/
That's so laughable that you claim "the truth"... what you really mean is that there is an extremely small minority of people who are deluded and delusional who choose to remain ignorant of the real facts because those facts burst their superstitious racist bubble which passes for the only reality they can deal with.
Love or hate the democrats, it does not give you the authority to ignore US Laws passed by them. The fact that you do makes you a criminal under US law.
Moreover, given your disdain for those actions taken by the legal US Government you don't like, clearly shows how subjectively biased you are when discussing the legal status of Hawaii as of 2019.
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How about a anti TMT parade through Waikiki, complete with floats carrying Hawaiian royalty and a marching band. Start em from Aloha Tower to Kapiolani Park.
Das cool, az long az dey keep um ova dea (Oahu) an no bring um ova hea (BI).
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RE: "da shack" and that poor flag.
First of all, those idiots deliberately attached wood pieces over the flag to make it difficult to remove.
The cop with the saw was trying to cut the wood off the flag, not destroy the flag.
How respectful is it to nail or screw wood over a flag?
Secondly, da shack was disapproved by the elders or whomever is leading the protest movement.
The reason was that "they" (the leaders) WANTED TO MINIMIZE THE FOOTPRINT left behind by the protest activity.
The end result was that the aina was disturbed MUCH MORE than necessary by constructing the illegal shack because the state had to bring in heavy equipment to remove all that crap.
And by the way, everybody knows that da shack, AKA "keiki learning center library" was bullshit. They knew it, the news reporters knew it.
What parent in their right mind would let their child go into a makeshift structure like that?
So now what you have up there on the mountain are rebel factions forming with conflicting ideas on what should or should-not be done.
And idiots on Oahu who really just want to attract attention to their shiny F150's, Tacomas and Silverados by obstructing traffic on a lovely Sunday morning.
--end of rant--
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Hawaiians are just one of many groups who cannot agree on how to run things. Catholics broke off into various Protestan groups. You have the religon of love who have the Sunni and Shiite factions who hate each other. Within OHA you have differing factions as to how things should be done. Same thing among Republicans, Dummycrats and gun rights groups. You will never get a large group of individuals agreeing 100% on how something should be done.
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Hawaiians are just one of many groups who cannot agree on how to run things. Catholics broke off into various Protestan groups. You have the religon of love who have the Sunni and Shiite factions who hate each other. Within OHA you have differing factions as to how things should be done. Same thing among Republicans, Dummycrats and gun rights groups. You will never get a large group of individuals agreeing 100% on how something should be done.
.....
This is the fundamental rule of all life forms. From microbes to plants to insects to primates to humans.
Competition is how life goes on. Darwin is my hero.
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Waiting to see them exercise their 2a rights.
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
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Waiting to see them exercise their 2a rights.
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
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RE: "da shack" and that poor flag.
First of all, those idiots deliberately attached wood pieces over the flag to make it difficult to remove.
The cop with the saw was trying to cut the wood off the flag, not destroy the flag.
How respectful is it to nail or screw wood over a flag?
Secondly, da shack was disapproved by the elders or whomever is leading the protest movement.
The reason was that "they" (the leaders) WANTED TO MINIMIZE THE FOOTPRINT left behind by the protest activity.
The end result was that the aina was disturbed MUCH MORE than necessary by constructing the illegal shack because the state had to bring in heavy equipment to remove all that crap.
And by the way, everybody knows that da shack, AKA "keiki learning center library" was bullshit. They knew it, the news reporters knew it.
What parent in their right mind would let their child go into a makeshift structure like that?
So now what you have up there on the mountain are rebel factions forming with conflicting ideas on what should or should-not be done.
And idiots on Oahu who really just want to attract attention to their shiny F150's, Tacomas and Silverados by obstructing traffic on a lovely Sunday morning.
--end of rant--
I’ve actually met a few folks that said the children learning center would have enticed them to going up there and staying for longer periods of time. I’m totally serious.
I watched the video on HNN and they showed that one worked almost get whacked in the head by one dozer. 0.o
As usual, the comments were just wow. One lady was “such a waste, the state could have put on a flatbed and moved somewhere where it could have been used”. That would’ve needed a really WIDE flatbed.
Hawaiians are just one of many groups who cannot agree on how to run things. Catholics broke off into various Protestan groups. You have the religon of love who have the Sunni and Shiite factions who hate each other. Within OHA you have differing factions as to how things should be done. Same thing among Republicans, Dummycrats and gun rights groups. You will never get a large group of individuals agreeing 100% on how something should be done.
That’s is very true from my experience in consultation for EA/EIS/Section 106 for various project I’ve worked on. Add Native American groups to that.
Anyways, it seems like a situation that is getting worse...
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Love or hate the democrats, it does not give you the authority to ignore US Laws passed by them. The fact that you do makes you a criminal under US law.
Moreover, given your disdain for those actions taken by the legal US Government you don't like, clearly shows how subjectively biased you are when discussing the legal status of Hawaii as of 2019.
Since when are Resolutions considered "US Laws"??
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You will never get a large group of individuals agreeing 100% on how something should be done.
I give you Woodstock ! O0 8) :crazy: :love: :sleeping: :worship: ;D :-* :oops: :wacko: :P
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Since when are Resolutions considered "US Laws"??
Never were, never are. Congress passes all sorts of partisan "resolutions". Most are just political theater and barely good for a laugh.
Certainly does not have the rule of law behind them.
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I give you Woodstock ! O0 8) :crazy: :love: :sleeping: :worship: ;D :-* :oops: :wacko: :P
True. Not everyone agrees wood stocks are best.
(https://i.imgur.com/B2UmXgX.jpg?1)
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True. Not everyone agrees wood stocks are best.
(https://i.imgur.com/B2UmXgX.jpg?1)
Looks like my M1A stock.
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Never were, never are. Congress passes all sorts of partisan "resolutions". Most are just political theater and barely good for a laugh.
Certainly does not have the rule of law behind them.
I am certainly glad you see and recognize that. :shaka:
Hawaii was illegally annexed by a JOINT RESOLUTION by Congress in 1898 (i.e., the Newlands Resolution), which is the violation of the US Constitution I always mention in my posts on this topic. Acts by Congress only have jurisdiction within the domestic borders of the United States and its territories, which means they can't draft legislation to annex anything outside of the US. :thumbsup:
Consequently, the legal ramifications of that resolution based on US Constitutional Law is that the annexation of Hawaii in 1898 was ILLEGAL and the continued US presence on the islands is an ILLEGAL OCCUPATION. :geekdanc:
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqSKLLrMZI0
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I am certainly glad you see and recognize that. :shaka:
Hawaii was illegally annexed by a JOINT RESOLUTION by Congress in 1898 (i.e., the Newlands Resolution), which is the violation of the US Constitution I always mention in my posts on this topic. Acts by Congress only have jurisdiction within the domestic borders of the United States and its territories, which means they can't draft legislation to annex anything outside of the US. :thumbsup:
Consequently, the legal ramifications of that resolution based on US Constitutional Law is that the annexation of Hawaii in 1898 was ILLEGAL and the continued US presence on the islands is an ILLEGAL OCCUPATION. :geekdanc:
LOL! How many positions are you going to take on your own issues?
First, the Clinton Apology is "US Law", and Puna is a criminal if he doesn't abide by it.
Now, you want the annexation to be illegal because it was a resolution, and because the US ABIDED BY IT!!
Amazing.
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RE: "da shack" and that poor flag.
First of all, those idiots deliberately attached wood pieces over the flag to make it difficult to remove.
The cop with the saw was trying to cut the wood off the flag, not destroy the flag.
How respectful is it to nail or screw wood over a flag?
Secondly, da shack was disapproved by the elders or whomever is leading the protest movement.
The reason was that "they" (the leaders) WANTED TO MINIMIZE THE FOOTPRINT left behind by the protest activity.
The end result was that the aina was disturbed MUCH MORE than necessary by constructing the illegal shack because the state had to bring in heavy equipment to remove all that crap.
And by the way, everybody knows that da shack, AKA "keiki learning center library" was bullshit. They knew it, the news reporters knew it.
What parent in their right mind would let their child go into a makeshift structure like that?
So now what you have up there on the mountain are rebel factions forming with conflicting ideas on what should or should-not be done.
And idiots on Oahu who really just want to attract attention to their shiny F150's, Tacomas and Silverados by obstructing traffic on a lovely Sunday morning.
--end of rant--
Add in the fact that everyone there knew at least a week in advance it was going to be demolished, but still left it up and left their flag there.
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RE: "da shack" and that poor flag.
First of all, those idiots deliberately attached wood pieces over the flag to make it difficult to remove.
The cop with the saw was trying to cut the wood off the flag, not destroy the flag.
How respectful is it to nail or screw wood over a flag?
Secondly, da shack was disapproved by the elders or whomever is leading the protest movement.
The reason was that "they" (the leaders) WANTED TO MINIMIZE THE FOOTPRINT left behind by the protest activity.
The end result was that the aina was disturbed MUCH MORE than necessary by constructing the illegal shack because the state had to bring in heavy equipment to remove all that crap.
And by the way, everybody knows that da shack, AKA "keiki learning center library" was bullshit. They knew it, the news reporters knew it.
What parent in their right mind would let their child go into a makeshift structure like that?
So now what you have up there on the mountain are rebel factions forming with conflicting ideas on what should or should-not be done.
And idiots on Oahu who really just want to attract attention to their shiny F150's, Tacomas and Silverados by obstructing traffic on a lovely Sunday morning.
--end of rant--
No air conditioner either....too hot no can learn
https://www.npr.org/2019/09/04/757034136/how-high-heat-can-impact-mental-health (https://www.npr.org/2019/09/04/757034136/how-high-heat-can-impact-mental-health)
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No air conditioner either....too hot no can learn
https://www.npr.org/2019/09/04/757034136/how-high-heat-can-impact-mental-health (https://www.npr.org/2019/09/04/757034136/how-high-heat-can-impact-mental-health)
Wat if you awready stay mental?
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I don't care if the building was being advertised as a children's library, a strip club or a cancer research hospital. Without proper permits, it isn't legal.
I bet the TMT has all its permits. :geekdanc:
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In my subdivision, 40% of the houses no mo permits. How do I know? I went on the county website and see
lots with houses on them listed as vacant lots and no building permit issued. These houses were already
there when I moved here 5 years ago. Probably the same through most of Puna in areas not heavily populated
and are divided into larger lots. People just build way in the back where no can see from da road.
Mo powwah to dem an ainokea wat dey do az long as no bahda me.
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What BS?
IMUA!
https://www.khon2.com/top-stories/mopeds-slow-crawl-h-1-and-ward/
This BS
When you drive a Mustang, Camaro, Challenger, Supra, GTR, etc on h1 and do this, you get arrested
When you drive a moped, Nissan titan, dodge hemi quad cab with Hawaiian flag on h1, you get escorted by hpd and get a permit from DOT
That is BS! :grrr:
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https://www.khon2.com/top-stories/mopeds-slow-crawl-h-1-and-ward/
This BS
When you drive a Mustang, Camaro, Challenger, Supra, GTR, etc on h1 and do this, you get arrested
When you drive a moped, Nissan titan, dodge hemi quad cab with Hawaiian flag on h1, you get escorted by hpd and get a permit from DOT
That is BS! :grrr:
No, that my friend, and the obviously illegal blocking of a public roadway, is "law and order" under the law of the kingdom of hawaii according to both the deluded moronic imbecilic clowns running the actual "demonstrations" and the cowardly imbecilic clowns supposedly responsible for "law enforcement" by the illegally occupying oppressive government. And you ain't seen nothin' yet, should the superstitious racists actually ever get a chance to impose their stupidity via force of law.
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can hear loud horn on kalanianaole highway in niu valley
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No, that my friend, and the obviously illegal blocking of a public roadway, is "law and order" under the law of the kingdom of hawaii according to both the deluded moronic imbecilic clowns running the actual "demonstrations" and the cowardly imbecilic clowns supposedly responsible for "law enforcement" by the illegally occupying oppressive government. And you ain't seen nothin' yet, should the superstitious racists actually ever get a chance to impose their stupidity via force of law.
Don't you just love Hawaii and its government? :shaka:
IMUA!
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can hear loud horn on kalanianaole highway in niu valley
Train horn?
Bc I heard it in kaimuki too
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HNN video. https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2019/09/06/state-crews-arrive-dismantle-illegal-wooden-structure-mauna-kea-protest-camp/
https://www.facebook.com/HawaiiNewsNow/videos/2527237140668903/UzpfSTE1NDI1MzA5NTI6MTAyMTkzMjc3MDIxNzM2MTg/
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Did the parade start? May be someone with a view of the freeway can post a pic or video of the charade, I mean parade.
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Did the parade start? May be someone with a view of the freeway can post a pic or video of the charade, I mean parade.
cousin was watching on kalanianaole
said the "parade" is limited to one lane
but traffic was backed up through Hawaii kai to Waimanalo side
so now people are driving because they were blocked and the other trucks are trying to catch up to the parade
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Wonder if they enforce recon and safety check laws?
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Not video, but couple of reports from friends who have seen and been affected.
1) Left turn on Kal Hwy blocked off even when the convoy wasn’t even in the area or even close.
2) Seemed like the “organized” group of 70-80 or so were following agreement. However, lots of late adds and folks coming along that seemed to be jamming things up.
Glad no plans to go anywhere today. AC on, plenty of food and football.
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This should really rally support for the A'ole TMT Movement. Inconvenience thousands of people.
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In my subdivision, 40% of the houses no mo permits. How do I know? I went on the county website and see
lots with houses on them listed as vacant lots and no building permit issued. These houses were already
there when I moved here 5 years ago. Probably the same through most of Puna in areas not heavily populated
and are divided into larger lots. People just build way in the back where no can see from da road.
Mo powwah to dem an ainokea wat dey do az long as no bahda me.
Those are the people more concerned with "I get what I can afford now" than they are "what if I ever want to sell this place one day?"
Having no structure on "the books" also screws over the tax man. Just pay for the land value -- no house.
And, since many of those houses aren't on the electric, water or sewer systems, they aren't using the infrastructure their taxes would help support.
In some places, just collecting rain water is a crime. :shake:
There are pluses and minuses to not getting permits. Legally, some are required for specific work (building a large structure) and some are not (doing your own repairs and renovations).
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Glad no plans to go anywhere today. AC on, plenty of food and football.
TFTI
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In some places, just collecting rain water is a crime. :shake:
Now that is some bullsheeet. What logic behind making rainwater collection illegal?
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There is no county water or sewer system where I live. No paved road or mail service either. About 3 miles away, still in my subdivision, there is a huge 3 story housing structure that keeps getting bigger as more people move there. I think there are about 30 Micronesians living there and it can easily be seen from the unpaved road.
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Now that is some bullsheeet. What logic behind making rainwater collection illegal?
The rationale is that all those connected to the water system must share the cost in order to make it affordable to all as well as generate enough revenue for operations and maintenance.
If, let's say, 20% of customers suddenly stop using 90% of their former demand for city water, those lower bills affect the "collective" which has to make up the shortfall through rate hikes.
It's basically a Socialist model of compliance. All must contribute, or the system fails.
We see that in Hawaii with solar energy adoption. The more people install solar, the less electricity from the HECO/MECO/HELCO plants they use. The issue is, the power company can't just reduce their costs by reducing production. At night and on cloudy/rainy days, those customers will demand the same amount of power they did before they had solar. Hence, the power company must maintain the capacity to supply the solar-owning customers on their non-solar days/nights.
That means the power company has to charge everyone else more to offset the cost of energy production.
So, the rationale isn't inaccurate, but it does fly in the face of freedom and choice.
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So there’s a concrete pump truck one of leading vehicles in the convoy 😳
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Now that is some bullsheeet. What logic behind making rainwater collection illegal?
When I lived in WA state is it was very illegal.
I did it anyway. The idea that a person could
get water free and without government control
was totally un-acceptable there.
It almost was the case here. The VA was refusing to loan
money to vets unless the house was on Government water.
They lost that case. Big Island Hawaii government is so
useless that they can't provide water to their citizens.
So we do it ourselves.
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The rationale is that all those connected to the water system must share the cost in order to make it affordable to all as well as generate enough revenue for operations and maintenance.
If, let's say, 20% of customers suddenly stop using 90% of their former demand for city water, those lower bills affect the "collective" which has to make up the shortfall through rate hikes.
It's basically a Socialist model of compliance. All must contribute, or the system fails.
We see that in Hawaii with solar energy adoption. The more people install solar, the less electricity from the HECO/MECO/HELCO plants they use. The issue is, the power company can't just reduce their costs by reducing production. At night and on cloudy/rainy days, those customers will demand the same amount of power they did before they had solar. Hence, the power company must maintain the capacity to supply the solar-owning customers on their non-solar days/nights.
That means the power company has to charge everyone else more to offset the cost of energy production.
So, the rationale isn't inaccurate, but it does fly in the face of freedom and choice.
I get the cost of infrastructure and maintenance, but self sufficiency should be encouraged and even rewarded. To me, it’s the mismanagement of the system that’s the main issue. This is having worked at the Board of Water Supply and having family that worked there for decades.
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I get the cost of infrastructure and maintenance, but self sufficiency should be encouraged and even rewarded. To me, it’s the mismanagement of the system that’s the main issue. This is having worked at the Board of Water Supply and having family that worked there for decades.
Self-sufficiency is antithetical to the Liberal/Socialist/Leftist/Collective mindset. People who can hunt, build, live off the land and not depend on government are the kinds of people Red Flag laws were meant to weed out.
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HPD escorted the 70 or so allowed in the permit. Looked more like 100, probably more. They had to stay in one lane but HPD stopped all traffic behind them.
From videos I've seen on the freeway looked like traffic was held back for them.
Original plan was HK, freeway, through Waipahu and Kapolei.
Police kept them on the freeway the entire way
Undoubtedly everyone not in the original parade exercised their kapu aloha and followed all laws. Haha
Their program started at 12 with protocol and whatever else they do
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There's also been a memo(kahea) going around online that the national guard is showing up tomorrow and there is a high possibility of clearing the road and arrests. All who are able are encourage to get to the mountain.
Should be fun to watch
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There's also been a memo(kahea) going around online that the national guard is showing up tomorrow and there is a high possibility of clearing the road and arrests. All who are able are encourage to get to the mountain.
Should be fun to watch
If anyone in government had a clue, they'd have been sending out fake memos within the groups saying the National Guard is coming every week or so.
Then, when the troops don't appear -- time after time -- everyone would be conditioned to not believe the memos.
After that is when the Guard shows up ... and nobody else bothers to come. :rofl: :thumbsup:
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The problem is our Hawaii government is run by a bunch of clueless screw ups.
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Last week there was apparently some mini-parade of $$ 4WD pickups with flags north on Alii dr here in Kona. Coming down the hill from my gym I was turning left.
Couple of POS Harleys were parked in the Kuakini-Palani intersection blocking through traffic, so the pickup truck parade could turn left. If I was at the head of the line and the light went green, depending on my temper, I would have driven straight ahead and cut through their little parade.
Going left, moot point. No way do I obey self appointed traffic cops.
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The problem is our Hawaii government is run by a bunch of clueless screw ups.
Why do you insult clueless screw ups?
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so what's next?
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If anyone in government had a clue, they'd have been sending out fake memos within the groups saying the National Guard is coming every week or so.
Then, when the troops don't appear -- time after time -- everyone would be conditioned to not believe the memos.
After that is when the Guard shows up ... and nobody else bothers to come. :rofl: :thumbsup:
They meet with the law enforcement every morning supposedly to "discuss the days events"
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so what's next?
Waikiki parade. I lik dis ting go on fo long time mo. Gud kine entatainment.
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so what's next?
www.hawaiifreepress.com/ArticlesMain/tabid/56/ID/24105/Tattered-Flags.aspx
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My new name for my fellow stupid kanakas....
"Maunalolos"
:rofl:
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My new name for my fellow stupid kanakas....
"Maunalolos"
:rofl:
great T shirt and or bumper stickers
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so what's next?
convoy is planned for Maui next
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Didn't go range cause of traffic, so stayed home and watched football instead.
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TFTI
Didn't you see the "bat signal"? ???
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Didn't you see the "bat signal"? ???
heads
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.
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https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ED-UGAlVUAAmIfD.jpg (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ED-UGAlVUAAmIfD.jpg)
Revolt and burning the flag?
I mean I get civil disobedience, demonstration, etc. But dayum.
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They think nothing about burning the US flag, but when they use the Hawaiian flag as a barricade on an illegally built structure and it gets damaged in the removal process, they get all huhu.
Let the stupidness continue. It reflects well on our state and local government.
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I didn't get around to doing it but I wanted to make a sign that read "Imua TMT" and take it up to an overpass for their group gas wasting trip last Sunday. I am curious how they would have reacted.
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If anyone else is on Instagram, look up the account "dumbdumbhaole". He has some pretty epic trolling of the protesters.
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https://hanahou.com/22.2/the-kahuna-of-mookini (https://hanahou.com/22.2/the-kahuna-of-mookini)
But being inclusive doesn’t mean that Leimomi shies from controversy. Even if she’s not the gun-toting policewoman of her younger days, she’s still feisty and assertive. She is often an iconoclast, and that can put her at odds with others. She is currently a vocal supporter of the Thirty-Meter Telescope that has been approved for construction on the summit of Mauna Kea. The project is being fought by a segment of the Hawaiian community that considers it a desecration of a sacred site. Momi disagrees. “I believe totally in getting the new telescope built on Mauna Kea,” she says. “Our ancestors studied the heavens. Now a new generation of Hawaiians can have the opportunity to advance what they discovered. A telescope that can accomplish this maintains the sacredness of the mountain. With this and in other ways, we need to be open to the future to carry us forward to the many tomorrows yet to come.”
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If anyone else is on Instagram, look up the account "dumbdumbhaole". He has some pretty epic trolling of the protesters.
funny stuff
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So now Ige and some other officials are getting death threats over the TMT issue. Someone offerred a $5000 reward for the identity of the cop that cut the flag.
Certainly this cannot becoming from the peaceful TMT protectors, or can it?
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So now Ige and some other officials are getting death threats over the TMT issue. Someone offerred a $5000 reward for the identity of the cop that cut the flag.
Certainly this cannot becoming from the peaceful TMT protectors, or can it?
---
----
Da maunalolos are getting desperate.
Typical tough-guy reaction...."gimme da mauna or I going broke yo face"
I wanna know who da guy dat wen nail and screw 2x4's all over the Hawaiian flag???? idiots
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Soooo.... someone goes on facebook and posts a mass shooting threat at the state capitol building.
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2019/09/15/fbi-investigating-online-threat-mass-shooting-state-capitol/
Is it THAT hard to trace it back?
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Soooo.... someone goes on facebook and posts a mass shooting threat at the state capitol building.
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2019/09/15/fbi-investigating-online-threat-mass-shooting-state-capitol/
Is it THAT hard to trace it back?
Tracing to a device is possible. Identifying who used the device is more difficult, especially if in a workplace or public location, like a library.
This is what happens when the state officials demonstrate weakness. The protesters know they can get what they want by threats, intimidation and disruption. Had Ige stopped the illegal BS months ago, the idiots would have not been encouraged to escalate like this.
The concept is no different than negotiating with terrorists. Once you give in to one, the next will demand more, and the next more. As long as you demonstrate weakness, they know they at least have a chance of getting what they want.
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“Get woke, go broke,” applied to states as well as businesses? I’m looking at you HI and CA.
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https://www.bizjournals.com/pacific/news/2019/09/12/uh-maunakea-support-vehicles-vandalized-causing.html (https://www.bizjournals.com/pacific/news/2019/09/12/uh-maunakea-support-vehicles-vandalized-causing.html)
https://www.westhawaiitoday.com/2019/09/06/hawaii-news/2-maunakea-observatories-support-vehicles-reportedly-vandalized/ (https://www.westhawaiitoday.com/2019/09/06/hawaii-news/2-maunakea-observatories-support-vehicles-reportedly-vandalized/)
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https://www.bizjournals.com/pacific/news/2019/09/12/uh-maunakea-support-vehicles-vandalized-causing.html (https://www.bizjournals.com/pacific/news/2019/09/12/uh-maunakea-support-vehicles-vandalized-causing.html)
https://www.westhawaiitoday.com/2019/09/06/hawaii-news/2-maunakea-observatories-support-vehicles-reportedly-vandalized/ (https://www.westhawaiitoday.com/2019/09/06/hawaii-news/2-maunakea-observatories-support-vehicles-reportedly-vandalized/)
....
Those are Hawaiian fuel pressure equalizer vents.
You need them at those high altitudes.
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https://www.bizjournals.com/pacific/news/2019/09/12/uh-maunakea-support-vehicles-vandalized-causing.html (https://www.bizjournals.com/pacific/news/2019/09/12/uh-maunakea-support-vehicles-vandalized-causing.html)
https://www.westhawaiitoday.com/2019/09/06/hawaii-news/2-maunakea-observatories-support-vehicles-reportedly-vandalized/ (https://www.westhawaiitoday.com/2019/09/06/hawaii-news/2-maunakea-observatories-support-vehicles-reportedly-vandalized/)
"Kapu aloha" in action or black ops hoax by the TMT supporters to make the superstitious racists look bad?
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"Kapu aloha" in action or black ops hoax by the TMT supporters to make the superstitious racists look bad?
hmmm...TMT supporters have been very passive in all aspects
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hmmm...TMT supporters have been very passive in all aspects
The new TMT like the original TMT( the Kecks)
was designed for Mauna Kea. Moving TMT to the Canary islands
basically makes the new TMT a waste of time.
Money would be better spent on the James Webb Space telescope.
It is Hawaii's loss, but from what I've seen in my nearly Twenty years here,
Hawaiians deserve to be poor, ignorant, and slaves to whom ever shows
up with guns.
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The new TMT like the original TMT( the Kecks)
was designed for Mauna Kea. Moving TMT to the Canary islands
basically makes the new TMT a waste of time.
Money would be better spent on the James Webb Space telescope.
It is Hawaii's loss, but from what I've seen in my nearly Twenty years here,
Hawaiians Hawaii residents deserve to be poor, ignorant, and slaves to whom ever shows
up with guns.
because before this "movement" I never saw so much people who claim to be of Hawaiian blood and not only Hawaiian but of Hawaiian Royalty.
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It is Hawaii's loss, but from what I've seen in my nearly Twenty years here,
Hawaiians deserve to be poor, ignorant, and slaves to whom ever shows
up with guns.
Got some news for you; we Hawaiians will never leave our homeland nor cease efforts to end the illegal occupation by the US. :thumbsup:
If your statements above is how you feel about Hawaiians, why don't you just move and live somewhere else. :shaka:
Hawaiians are not asking you or the US, for that matter, to stay.
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“Get woke, go broke,” applied to states as well as businesses? I’m looking at you HI and CA.
Funny at that "Get Woke" BS. So someone learned to read social media posts and believes it to be true and is "woke"? Social media invokes more emotions than anything. Platforms like Twitter, FB and IG are DESIGNED to invoke emotional responses. What do you think the "like" buttons, the number of followers and other social metrics are there for?
And again, people feel oppressed with accounts in Youtube, IG, FB, Twitter etc. and people still enjoy flying and burning what ever flag they want on their brand new lifted, 4x4, 2003 Toyota Tacomas. Give it a break...enough of the victimhood crap.
And lumping all these issues of U.S. "colonialism", "imperialism" is BS because the project is made of countries of India, China and Canada. IF that was the case, China has a very effective means of oppression and dealing with protestors that these "protectors" would not stand a chance against.
It's also ironic that some of these protesters don't identify as American but are using the very AMERICAN right of protesting. Don't dare protest in Russia or China and don't place this protest in a romanticized view of a Hawaiian MONARCHY.
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Got some news for you; we Hawaiians will never leave our homeland nor cease efforts to end the illegal occupation by the US. :thumbsup:
If your statements above is how you feel about Hawaiians, why don't you just move and live somewhere else. :shaka:
Hawaiians are not asking you or the US, for that matter, to stay.
More non-sequiturs. You must work overtime not thinking them up. What in the world of logic does "Hawaiians deserve to be ignorant, poor and slaves" have to do with anything about them leaving? Or perpetuating their bullshit about "illegal occupation"?
Who cares what the superstitious racist historical revisionists and legality-dumb think about anything, much less whether a U.S. citizen has the legal right to stay in the United States? Talk to us again when these islands have been legally severed from the United States. Of course you won't shut up with your ridiculous absurdities because you know full well that day will never come. NEVER. You and your ilk claim it will happen "soon"... but after 126 years of whining and stomping your feet you still won't make a wager that it will happen within three years ($10,000 of each bettor to be held by neutral third party). Why don't you tell us when it is going to happen, even roughly? 2021? 2050? 4692? Yeah, I thought so.
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Platforms like Twitter, FB and IG are DESIGNED to invoke emotional responses. What do you think the "like" buttons, the number of followers and other social metrics are there for?
Never been on one of those social media sites, but what you write rings true.
From what i gather on the periphery, they are infested with females and males of questionable gender. IOW, a democrat kingdom.
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they sure are "protecting" the mauna
https://dlnr.hawaii.gov/blog/2019/09/12/nr19-163/
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Got some news for you; we Hawaiians will never leave our homeland nor cease efforts to end the illegal occupation by the US. :thumbsup:
If your statements above is how you feel about Hawaiians, why don't you just move and live somewhere else. :shaka:
Hawaiians are not asking you or the US, for that matter, to stay.
So, basically, you have no idea how "occupation" of a land works.
We come. We occupy. You obey.
If you don't like the rules, the only 2 options are "learn to get along" and "forcibly kick the occupiers out." I don't see the latter happening anything in the next century, so why don't we all just accept the situation and try to get along?
You don't see Japan all bent out of shape toward the US for being the only country to have had nukes used against them, do you?
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Soooo.... someone goes on facebook and posts a mass shooting threat at the state capitol building.
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2019/09/15/fbi-investigating-online-threat-mass-shooting-state-capitol/
Is it THAT hard to trace it back?
UPDATE:
The FBI alert identified George Sopi, 29, as the apparent author of the threat. It adds that “Sopi has made other
recent social media posts about violence towards Hawaii Governor Ige and other mass shootings.”
According to the FBI bulletin, Sopi has a criminal history that includes assault, assault against a police officer,
and marijuana offenses. The bulletin also said Sopi appears to have access to a firearm.
State Attorney General Clare Connors said in a written response to questions that Sopi has not been arrested
by Hawaii Department of Public Safety of state attorney generals investigators.
“State law enforcement is aware of the post from yesterday,” Connors wrote. She added that FBI bulletin “confirms
that law enforcement is sharing intel among local and federal partners, and taking appropriate action to investigate
and respond.”…
(NOTE: Since the FBI is investigating this, there will be an actual arrest.
It is amazing what happens when police are not tied down by state politics.)
That last line is hilarious --- and true!! Although, given the Hildabeast email and Comey crimes that went unindicted, the FBi
doesn't arrest anyone the DOJ sees as political favorites, too.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
http://www.hawaiifreepress.com/ArticlesDailyNews/tabid/65/ID/24162/September-14-2019-News-Read.aspx?utm_source=September+15%2C+2019+News+from+HawaiiFreePress++&utm_campaign=September+15%2C+2019+Email&utm_medium=email
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Who cares what the superstitious racist historical revisionists and legality-dumb think about anything, much less whether a U.S. citizen has the legal right to stay in the United States? Talk to us again when these islands have been legally severed from the United States. Of course you won't shut up with your ridiculous absurdities because you know full well that day will never come. NEVER. You and your ilk claim it will happen "soon"... but after 126 years of whining and stomping your feet you still won't make a wager that it will happen within three years ($10,000 of each bettor to be held by neutral third party). Why don't you tell us when it is going to happen, even roughly? 2021? 2050? 4692? Yeah, I thought so.
As always, why don't you come to Mauna Kea and PEACEFULLY educate the Hawaiians that their cause for freedom from the US is foolhardy as well as present your wager above.
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So, basically, you have no idea how "occupation" of a land works.
We come. We occupy. You obey.
If you don't like the rules, the only 2 options are "learn to get along" and "forcibly kick the occupiers out." I don't see the latter happening anything in the next century, so why don't we all just accept the situation and try to get along?
You don't see Japan all bent out of shape toward the US for being the only country to have had nukes used against them, do you?
Freedom from imperialism is never easy and may take some time to overcome. Until then, Hawaiians will never stop educating, highlighting, and reminding others about the illegal occupation. In the meantime, I guess you just have to get used to seeing our flags fly proudly from steeple to pick-up trucks. :shaka:
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As always, why don't you come to Mauna Kea and PEACEFULLY educate the Hawaiians that their cause for freedom from the US is foolhardy as well as present your wager above.
Why does he have to travel to the protestors' illegal presence at Mauna Kea? These protestors don't want to negotiate and absolutely don't want the telescope to be built. So what's the point of "educating" them? They have chained themselves to a cattle guard and put elderly persons on the access road. Who can reason with that mentality?
Why don't they stop blocking the road to observatories and protest something more aligned with the issues of "illegal U.S. occupation", "imperialism" and "colonialism". i.e. a U.S. military base. Like I said this project is a partnership of nations: India, China and Canada. Why don't you and your protestors travel to India, China and Canada and protest there?
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Freedom from imperialism is never easy and may take some time to overcome. Until then, Hawaiians will never stop educating, highlighting, and reminding others about the illegal occupation. In the meantime, I guess you just have to get used to seeing our flags fly proudly from steeple to pick-up trucks. :shaka:
And your upside down flags burning in the streets... :shaka:
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And your upside down flags burning in the streets... :shaka:
Maybe we can get some tow trucks to roll a few of the protester trucks over ... you know, so the flags would be flying right side up?
I mean, if they are that upset over one flag that they nailed to a building being cut, it's the least we can do to show respect for the state's kingdom's flag!
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Freedom from imperialism is never easy and may take some time to overcome. Until then, Hawaiians will never stop educating, highlighting, and reminding others about playing the victim over the illegal occupation annexation. In the meantime, I guess you just have to get used to seeing our flags fly proudly from steeple to pick-up trucks. :shaka:
"Your flag" was nailed to an illegal building. What kind of respect is that?
Bunch of hypocrites now feigning outrage over it being removed. :sleeping:
Was the flag "proudly" nailed to the door and covered with more wood? Just asking, because the whole thing is confusing. I don't think that's how I was taught to respect symbols, particularly flags.
Also, flying a flag upside-down is an international symbol of distress, which means you are summoning help immediately in a life-or-death situation.
Pretending you're respecting the flag while at the same time using it in a way that demonstrates no respect for the traditions, rules and laws concerning the proper use of flags makes everyone who does it look ridiculous and childish.
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As always, why don't you come to Mauna Kea and PEACEFULLY educate the Hawaiians that their cause for freedom from the US is foolhardy as well as present your wager above.
As always you're a moron... and writing more idiotic comments like this only adds to your accumulated stupidity data base.
We've already been over this. I'd have more success educating to the rocks in my yard than educating the brainwashed ignorant superstitious racist ideologues that make up most of the illegally-road-blocking criminals. They are immune to facts (that's what brainwashing is). You prove this over and over and over.
Besides that totally disqualifying fact is the other fact that a number of the superstitious racist criminals also have extremely violent tendencies, as they have made plain as day on numerous occasions, and anyone who would intentionally subject themselves to that level of violent threat, especially for no useful purpose at all, like trying to "educate" them out of their ignoramus stupor, would be foolish.
I HAVE presented my wager to several people who made the claim that the "kingdom" would be restored in the "very near future" and the unanimous response was: crickets. I'm officially (in case you were incapable of comprehending it in the previous comment) making the wager to YOU. So, what's your answer? In plain English... yeah, I know, that's the language of the "illegal occupiers", but, fuck you... that's the language you write in here on this board. Just answer a simple question. It'll be the first time if you do. You know, like: "YES" or "NO".
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Curious for the illegal U.S. "occupation" believers - Do you file yearly income tax with the U.S. ?
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And your upside down flags burning in the streets... :shaka:
Please keep your comments peaceful. Making indirect threats to incite violence is immoral. :thumbsup:
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Why does he have to travel to the protestors' illegal presence at Mauna Kea? These protestors don't want to negotiate and absolutely don't want the telescope to be built. So what's the point of "educating" them? They have chained themselves to a cattle guard and put elderly persons on the access road. Who can reason with that mentality?
Why don't they stop blocking the road to observatories and protest something more aligned with the issues of "illegal U.S. occupation", "imperialism" and "colonialism". i.e. a U.S. military base. Like I said this project is a partnership of nations: India, China and Canada. Why don't you and your protestors travel to India, China and Canada and protest there?
The kapuna who were arrested were not "put there", but choose to stand for the cause that they believe in and are looking forward to their day in court by the way.
The project maybe international, but we know which country has the controlling interest and it is not India, China, or Canada.
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"Your flag" was nailed to an illegal building. What kind of respect is that?
Bunch of hypocrites now feigning outrage over it being removed. :sleeping:
Was the flag "proudly" nailed to the door and covered with more wood? Just asking, because the whole thing is confusing. I don't think that's how I was taught to respect symbols, particularly flags.
Also, flying a flag upside-down is an international symbol of distress, which means you are summoning help immediately in a life-or-death situation.
Pretending you're respecting the flag while at the same time using it in a way that demonstrates no respect for the traditions, rules and laws concerning the proper use of flags makes everyone who does it look ridiculous and childish.
There are many Hawaiians that have decided to join the movement, but albeit need to educate themselves on such protocols in regards to handling a national flag. However, the flying the Hawaiian national flag upside-down is accurate as the Hawaiian nation is under distress.
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We've already been over this. I'd have more success educating to the rocks in my yard than educating the brainwashed ignorant superstitious racist ideologues that make up most of the illegally-road-blocking criminals. They are immune to facts (that's what brainwashing is). You prove this over and over and over.
Your brainwashing has left you to believe that Hawaii is somehow part of the USA, when their is NO US CONSTITIONALLY legal documents to prove it. ;D
I HAVE presented my wager to several people who made the claim that the "kingdom" would be restored in the "very near future" and the unanimous response was: crickets. I'm officially (in case you were incapable of comprehending it in the previous comment) making the wager to YOU. So, what's your answer? In plain English... yeah, I know, that's the language of the "illegal occupiers", but, fuck you... that's the language you write in here on this board. Just answer a simple question. It'll be the first time if you do. You know, like: "YES" or "NO".
Please do not accuse me of using profanity on this forum. If there is someone who is incessantly UNCIVIL and uses PROFANITY as the means to communicate, you need to look in the mirror. :crazy:
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The kapuna who were arrested were not "put there", but choose to stand for the cause that they believe in and are looking forward to their day in court by the way.
The project maybe international, but we know which country has the controlling interest and it is not India, China, or Canada.
I don’t know who has the controlling interest behind the project. I’ve heard so many theories as to who is the entity behind the curtain (like in Wizard of Oz). I have yet to receive a rationally based reasoning backed by evidence. And no, “Ige is a corrupt idiot” doesn’t count, even though in many instances I tend to agree.
Not being sarcastic here. I really don’t know. Yet so many I’ve talked to, friends included, can’t seem to give a rational reason. Usually goes back to a current events line in the sand as opposed to related to TMT itself.
I get it’s an emotionally charged issue. But you can’t abandon reason for emotion...
And I thought the KUpuna that were arrested weren’t facing charges anymore. At least most of them.
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they sure are "protecting" the mauna
https://dlnr.hawaii.gov/blog/2019/09/12/nr19-163/
Then there’s the threatening, vandalism, etc
Yeah, I get that there’s always the bad apples. However, in recent incidents, seems to be the minority is maintaining the Kapu Aloha, which I have been impressed with.
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Please keep your comments peaceful. Making indirect threats to incite violence is immoral. :thumbsup:
The American flag was burned in the street by Hawaiian protestors so what makes burning the “movements” flags “immoral” and inciting violence. Your comment proves that the possibility of any violence will be from the protestors. Think before you comment, your ignorance is shining brightly...... :shaka:
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Quote from: punaperson on Today at 06:18:57 AM
We've already been over this. I'd have more success educating to the rocks in my yard than educating the brainwashed ignorant superstitious racist ideologues that make up most of the illegally-road-blocking criminals. They are immune to facts (that's what brainwashing is). You prove this over and over and over.
kuleana: Your brainwashing has left you to believe that Hawaii is somehow part of the USA, when their is NO US CONSTITIONALLY legal documents to prove it. ;D
I HAVE presented my wager to several people who made the claim that the "kingdom" would be restored in the "very near future" and the unanimous response was: crickets. I'm officially (in case you were incapable of comprehending it in the previous comment) making the wager to YOU. So, what's your answer? In plain English... yeah, I know, that's the language of the "illegal occupiers", but, fuck you... that's the language you write in here on this board. Just answer a simple question. It'll be the first time if you do. You know, like: "YES" or "NO".
kuleana: Please do not accuse me of using profanity on this forum. If there is someone who is incessantly UNCIVIL and uses PROFANITY as the means to communicate, you need to look in the mirror. :crazy:
kuleana: Your brainwashing has left you to believe that Hawaii is somehow part of the USA, when their is NO US CONSTITIONALLY legal documents to prove it. ;D
You repeating you ignorance and/or lies only proves my point... again and again and again. It's hard to believe you're really that stupid. But there it is.
kuleana: Please do not accuse me of using profanity on this forum. If there is someone who is incessantly UNCIVIL and uses PROFANITY as the means to communicate, you need to look in the mirror. :crazy:
Wow. Stunning. Another irrelevant non-sequitur. I never mentioned a single word, ever, about you "using profanity of this forum". NEVER ONCE. I couldn't care less if you use profanity. I guess you can't read... "the language you use on this board" refers to "in plain English". I only care about your stupid lies and ignorance. And, of course, your refusal to answer the simplest yes or no questions and put your money where you're loud ignorant mouth is. Which once again, you refuse to do. Will you make the wager or not, and when, exactly, will the "kingdom" be restored and the U.S. officially and legally turn over all of the islands to the "kingdom"? Why won't you answer even one simple question? Or two? We all know, because you are a liar, and you know it, but are afraid to publicly state that you are an ignorant liar. That's understandable, but it makes your rhetoric out to be obviously and blatantly false.
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Please keep your comments peaceful. Making indirect threats to incite violence is immoral. :thumbsup:
He's merely commenting on how the people in the trucks are most likely bad drivers.
If they can't obey laws to allow the TMT workers access on public roads, why would they obey the rules of the road at all? Based on my observations, half the people on the road here should have their licenses revoked. Not enough enforcement, so people do what they want.
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Debate the debate. Tone down name calling.
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There are many Hawaiians that have decided to join the movement, but albeit need to educate themselves on such protocols in regards to handling a national flag. However, the flying the Hawaiian national flag upside-down is accurate as the Hawaiian nation is under distress.
Please define "distress".
I don't think that means what you think it means.
A "distress signal" is not for a movement. It's to request immediate assistance. You expect all who see it to run to your location and help.
What, exactly, do those here in "distress" expect anyone answering that distress signal to do? Honestly, redefining language to fit your narrative is so .... Liberal.
This is me, PEACEFULLY educating you:
A distress signal indicates that a person or group of people, ship, aircraft, or other vehicle is threatened by
serious and/or imminent danger and requires immediate assistance.[1]:PCG D−3
Use of distress signals in other circumstances may be against local or international law.
An urgency signal is available to request assistance in less critical situations.
In order for distress signalling to be the most effective, two parameters must be communicated:
- Alert or notification of a distress in progress
- Position or location (or localization or pinpointing) of the party in distress.
:
Inverted flags
For hundreds of years inverted national flags were commonly used as distress signals.[3] However, for some countries’
flags it is difficult (e.g., Spain, South Korea) or impossible (e.g., Japan, Thailand, and Israel) to determine whether they
are inverted. Other countries have flags that are inverses of each other; for example, the Polish flag is white on the top
half and red on the bottom, while Indonesia's and Monaco's flags are the opposite—i.e., top half red, bottom half white.
A ship flying no flags may also be understood to be in distress.[4]
If any flag is available, distress may be indicated by tying a knot in it and then flying it upside-down, making it into a wheft.[5]
Flying the flag upside down because "illegal occupation" is neither an immediate danger nor a recognized use of ANY form of distress signal.
it is the equivalent of calling 911 because you're facing eviction in a month.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distress_signal
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The American flag was burned in the street by Hawaiian protestors so what makes burning the “movements” flags “immoral” and inciting violence. Your comment proves that the possibility of any violence will be from the protestors. Think before you comment, your ignorance is shining brightly...... :shaka:
So far that I know, there was only one incident involving a burning of the American flag orchestrated by a couple of people. Assuming that photo posted on this forum is genuine, all it says is that a couple of emotional individuals decided to express their feelings by that flag burning. I do not recall in that photo that there was any evidence of those people calling upon others to do the same.
Your comment was implicitly envisioning a near future where Hawaiian national flags are burning presumably by the actions of those who are pro-TMT and/or just anti-Hawaiian.
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Please define "distress".
I don't think that means what you think it means.
A "distress signal" is not for a movement. It's to request immediate assistance. You expect all who see it to run to your location and help.
What, exactly, do those here in "distress" expect anyone answering that distress signal to do? Honestly, redefining language to fit your narrative is so .... Liberal.
This is me, PEACEFULLY educating you:
Flying the flag upside down because "illegal occupation" is neither an immediate danger nor a recognized use of ANY form of distress signal.
it is the equivalent of calling 911 because you're facing eviction in a month.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distress_signal
I am very sincerely touched that you spent a great deal of effort to educate me.
The Hawaiian nation is indeed in a situation of distress.
Our country is being illegally occupied, environmentally polluted, overpopulated by immigrants, etc. by the US. No Hawaiian is asking for the US to stay. I really hope the US teaches the Hawaiians a lesson and leave the islands to its own fate. After a period of getting back to a period of normalcy, I am confident of Hawaii's future.
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I am very sincerely touched that you spent a great deal of effort to educate me.
The Hawaiian nation is indeed in a situation of distress.
Our country is being illegally occupied, environmentally polluted, overpopulated by immigrants, etc. by the US.
No Hawaiian is asking for the US to stay.
I really hope the US teaches the Hawaiians a lesson and leave the islands to its own fate. After a period of getting back to a period of normalcy, I am confident of Hawaii's future.
Really? "No Hawaiian" anywhere? Those born here since statehood only know life as a US citizen. I would wager a majority are not keen on the idea of becoming an independent nation divorced of the protection, civil liberties and prosperity they've become accustomed to.
Were "no Hawaiians" okay with being a state when Obama became president? I have a feeling you're just making that "statistic" up.
"No Hawaiian"? LOL!!! :rofl:
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I am very sincerely touched that you spent a great deal of effort to educate me.
The Hawaiian nation is indeed in a situation of distress.
Our country is being illegally occupied, environmentally polluted, overpopulated by immigrants, etc. by the US. No Hawaiian is asking for the US to stay. I really hope the US teaches the Hawaiians a lesson and leave the islands to its own fate. After a period of getting back to a period of normalcy, I am confident of Hawaii's future.
No. It is not. You don't know the meaning of "distress" within the context of a distress signal..
I guess Levi's should have sewn their labels upside down on their distressed jeans! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Really? "No Hawaiian" anywhere? Those born here since statehood only know life as a US citizen. I would wager a majority are not keen on the idea of becoming an independent nation divorced of the protection, civil liberties and prosperity they've become accustomed to.
Were "no Hawaiians" okay with being a state when Obama became president? I have a feeling you're just making that "statistic" up.
Once again, you make it sound Hawaii was some sort of closed and restricted society prior to the illegal annexation by the US 1898. Hawaii was far more progressive than the US, had a constitution of its own, and civil liberties, albeit under a constitutional monarchy.
What made you think Hawaiians were happy being part of the US under the Obama administration? Do you forget the Department of Interior hearings that were conducted to dupe Hawaiians to become a federally recognized tribe under the US under Obama's watch? Let me educate you what happened. Hawaiians everywhere said NO and that was the end with that. The reason for NO, every Hawaiian knew there was no US Constitutionally legal Treaty of Annexation, therefore, making the current US presence in Hawaii illegal.
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Once again, you make it sound Hawaii was some sort of closed and restricted society prior to the illegal annexation by the US 1898. Hawaii was far more progressive than the US, had a constitution of its own, and civil liberties, albeit under a constitutional monarchy.
What made you think Hawaiians were happy being part of the US under the Obama administration? Do you forget the Department of Interior hearings that were conducted to dupe Hawaiians to become a federally recognized tribe under the US under Obama's watch? Let me educate you what happened. Hawaiians everywhere said NO and that was the end with that. The reason for NO, every Hawaiian knew there was no US Constitutionally legal Treaty of Annexation, therefore, making the current US presence in Hawaii illegal.
Hawaii is one of the most racist places I've ever lived -- and I grew up in the South in the 60s and 70s!!
Great example of "civil liberties". :wacko:
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https://www.thegardenisland.com/2019/09/03/hawaii-news/the-curious-trials-of-kapana-thronas-kahoonei/ (https://www.thegardenisland.com/2019/09/03/hawaii-news/the-curious-trials-of-kapana-thronas-kahoonei/)
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Hawaii is one of the most racist places I've ever lived -- and I grew up in the South in the 60s and 70s!!
The racism you have experienced in Hawaii is as a result of living in occupied nation.
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The racism you have experienced in Hawaii is as a result of living in occupied nation.
and so are the ICBM silos...
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and so are the ICBM silos...
that's why we have no more pineapple industry...stay under the fields
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The racism you have experienced in Hawaii is as a result of living in occupied nation.
Not much of an argument! LOL! :rofl:
If the Hawaiians are being taught "non-Hawaiians are to be despised" for ANY reason, then that's a great argument AGAINST allowing them autonomy.
They don't understand that hatred won't die out for generations even after "de-annexation".
It's obvious the racist mentality being instilled in Hawaiians from birth is much deeper than "occupation" would explain.
If you want to be known as the racist nation of Hawaii, then you have a warped sense of morality. Two wrongs don't make a right.
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The racism you have experienced in Hawaii is as a result of living in occupied nation.
no its not.
Hawaiians had slaves as well and a caste system.
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The racism you have experienced in Hawaii is as a result of living in occupied nation.
Was this sarcasm?
I’ve lived here most of my life and haven’t experienced racism, or at least anything that I remember or even troubled me. Personally, if you’re respectful of people, I’ve found it easy to get along. Be an asshole, you’re not gonna get along anywhere. Well, maybe China...
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Was this sarcasm?
I’ve lived here most of my life and haven’t experienced racism, or at least anything that I remember or even troubled me. Personally, if you’re respectful of people, I’ve found it easy to get along. Be an asshole, you’re not gonna get along anywhere. Well, maybe China...
I've observed many instances of racism while not being overtly treated that way myself.
Most are too timid or polite to talk to people in an openly racist manner, but if you listen to them when sitting and talking story .... the racist mentality is front and center.
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I've observed many instances of racism while not being overtly treated that way myself.
Most are too timid or polite to talk to people in an openly racist manner, but if you listen to them when sitting and talking story .... the racist mentality is front and center.
Yeah, I can def see that. I was more referring to I’ve never experienced or seen where say Chinese cannot go into a place owned by Flilpinos. I have def seen deferent cultures/races talking $hit about each other, but mostly give and take. Yeah, I have seen some of that get downright nasty, but not like what I’ve experienced or seen elsewhere in the world, where certain races are treated like dirt.
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Yeah, I can def see that. I was more referring to I’ve never experienced or seen where say Chinese cannot go into a place owned by Flilpinos. I have def seen deferent cultures/races talking $hit about each other, but mostly give and take. Yeah, I have seen some of that get downright nasty, but not like what I’ve experienced or seen elsewhere in the world, where certain races are treated like dirt.
I've seen locals working at a Waikiki fast food place standing around talking story and giving me no attention. I was the only customer in the place. I had to ask, "Are you open for business?" before anyone asked what I wanted to order.
At the time, being new to Hawaii, I thought it was just bad attitude or crappy minimum wage employees. Now, it's my opinion the problem was much more .... problematic.
Sometimes the behavior is too subtle to pick up on, mainly because they don't want to get fired I'd imagine.
It's difficult to assign motives to behaviors, especially when the other person is a complete stranger. So, I give everyone the benefit of the doubt at least once. After I get to know them or spot a pattern, that benefit is no longer theirs.
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no its not.
Hawaiians had slaves as well and a caste system.
Get your history right. The kaua and the hierarchal society you speak of existed well before the Kingdom of Hawaii was established and effectively abolished by the time of Kamehameha III.
The racism referenced in Hawaii today had its roots during the heyday of the plantation era, where the pre-cursors of the "Big Five" made sure the various ethnic groups in their service would not unite against them. Moreover, let us not forget that the Caucasians in government during the Republic and well into the territorial era were all too happy to follow the American Chinese Exclusion Act that prevented Chinese from immigrating to Hawaii.
I think that was very racist for the Caucasians of that time to do.
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Not much of an argument! LOL! :rofl:
If the Hawaiians are being taught "non-Hawaiians are to be despised" for ANY reason, then that's a great argument AGAINST allowing them autonomy.
They don't understand that hatred won't die out for generations even after "de-annexation".
It's obvious the racist mentality being instilled in Hawaiians from birth is much deeper than "occupation" would explain.
If you want to be known as the racist nation of Hawaii, then you have a warped sense of morality. Two wrongs don't make a right.
What makes you think all Hawaiians are taught to be racist when they are born?
Is it because, we Hawaiians and locals for that matter, do not bow down when you speak or readily agree with anything you say?
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Get your history right. The kaua and the hierarchal society you speak of existed well before the Kingdom of Hawaii was established and effectively abolished by the time of Kamehameha III.
The racism referenced in Hawaii today had its roots during the heyday of the plantation era, where the pre-cursors of the "Big Five" made sure the various ethnic groups in their service would not unite against them. Moreover, let us not forget that the Caucasians in government during the Republic and well into the territorial era were all too happy to follow the American Chinese Exclusion Act that prevented Chinese from immigrating to Hawaii.
I think that was very racist for the Caucasians of that time to do.
thats what I meant. It was part of Hawaiian history. Unless you want to exclude a part of Hawaian history to fit your narrative or romanticized version of it.
Most every race in human history exploited one another just as every race has conquered or assimilated one another.
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thats what I meant. It was part of Hawaiian history. Unless you want to exclude a part of Hawaian history to fit your narrative or romanticized version of it.
Most every race in human history exploited one another just as every race has conquered or assimilated one another.
I agree, but I never did try to portray Hawaiians as the greatest people to walk the Earth nor Hawaiian history without its own sins.
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What makes you think all Hawaiians are taught to be racist when they are born?
Is it because, we Hawaiians and locals for that matter, do not bow down when you speak or readily agree with anything you say?
Kill Haole Day.
I rest my case.
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What makes you think all Hawaiians are taught to be racist when they are born?
Inculcated from an early age, is that better? Hearing things as they become aware of what is being said.
Who knows how widespread the attitudes, such as you express here, are that children are exposed to.
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Kill Haole Day.
I rest my case.
That racist event was one used not only by Hawaiians, but non-Hawaiian locals as well.
Hence, are you saying people born in Hawaii are taught to be racists?
Hawaiians and non-Hawaiian locals alike are dying to hear what you have to say.
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This is way off topic from TMT.
But whatever happened to the days we were all good fun “racist”.
Rap’s Hawaii.
Frank Delima.
K.K. Kaumanua
Mr. Frogtree.
Faith Yanagi. Head cheerleader at Furtado Memorial High School..
Abdula Fataai. Ate green banana tree and all.
Mr. San Cho Lee.
No Flips in the pool.
Etc.
Addendum: Being a Haole born and raised in Hawaii, Intermediate school sucked though. Elementary and High School were great. All public.
Addendum 2: said it before and I’ll say it again. Sovereignty in Hawaii is a pipe dream. Let ‘em build TMT. Then if if the Hawaiians get Sovereignty in 2219 they’ll get plenty rental income. Or at least they can check out the stars their ancestors did, only way more close up.
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This is way off topic from TMT.
But whatever happened to the days we were all good fun “racist”.
Rap’s Hawaii.
Frank Delima.
K.K. Kaumanua
Mr. Frogtree.
Faith Yanagi. Head cheerleader at Furtado Memorial High School..
Abdula Fataai. Ate green banana tree and all.
Mr. San Cho Lee.
No Flips in the pool.
Etc.
Addendum: Being a Haole born and raised in Hawaii, Intermediate school sucked though. Elementary and High School were great.
Those glory days of local Hawaii are long since gone. With an every increasing exodus of Hawaiians and locals alike to cheaper places to live and being replaced with new waves of immigrants and haoles all who typically refuse to assimilate and make fun of the culture and language (i.e., Pidgin) you, I, and others on this forum were raised; the current state of affairs among the races and ethnicities living in Hawaii today are unfortunately now what they are.
Very sad.
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That racist event was one used not only by Hawaiians, but non-Hawaiian locals as well.
Hence, are you saying people born in Hawaii are taught to be racists?
Hawaiians and non-Hawaiian locals alike are dying to hear what you have to say.
Never said Hawaiians had an exclusive claim to being racists.
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Addendum 2: said it before and I’ll say it again. Sovereignty in Hawaii is a pipe dream. Let ‘em build TMT. Then if if the Hawaiians get Sovereignty in 2219 they’ll get plenty rental income. Or at least they can check out the stars their ancestors did, only way more close up.
Take a good look at how many Hawaiian national flags are being flown on vehicles, houses, and office windows these days; there are many here and on the continental US. Moreover, those who are flying the colors brightly are not kapunas, but the youth and younger adults who know the truth and, along with us older folk, working to restore our nation on all fronts.
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Never said Hawaiians had an exclusive claim to being racists.
Mahalo for your clarification.
So, you openly believe Hawaiians and non-Hawaiian locals alike living in Hawaii are all racists.
GOT IT!
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I've seen locals working at a Waikiki fast food place standing around talking story and giving me no attention. I was the only customer in the place. I had to ask, "Are you open for business?" before anyone asked what I wanted to order.
At the time, being new to Hawaii, I thought it was just bad attitude or crappy minimum wage employees. Now, it's my opinion the problem was much more .... problematic.
Sometimes the behavior is too subtle to pick up on, mainly because they don't want to get fired I'd imagine.
It's difficult to assign motives to behaviors, especially when the other person is a complete stranger. So, I give everyone the benefit of the doubt at least once. After I get to know them or spot a pattern, that benefit is no longer theirs.
We’re they millennials? (Kidding)
I can see what you mean, but I’ve seen crappy service all around, everywhere. But if you see a pattern, then maybe different.
Maybe I’m not sensitive, oblivious, or completely fawkin’ clueless (probably last), but I haven’t really noticed the service one.
Was in northern Louisiana on a work trip with my coworker, who is a tall Chinese guy. No Asians since maybe an hour since leaving Houston. Anyways, we go to a Mexican restaurant our first night and another coworker joins us. He’s a haole from CA and works in CA (but married to local girl). Service was actually pretty good to me. Food and beers came quickly. After we’re done, we’re driving back to the hotel and they both were like “were we getting discriminated against?” And they both agreed. I hadn’t noticed anything. When we got there the host said no seats, but we could sit at the bar. Apparently, they noticed that when we were done, an area of floor seating that was empty when we got there was full of locals. I didn’t really notice, but I assumed an area opened up once they got staff for that area. Maybe they didn’t want to serve “our kind”. Dunno.
On the drive back to TX, we stop at a Whataburger and eat there. My coworker and I get our food and we’re eating. He keeps commenting on how we’re the only Asians in there and the locals (mostly white folks) are looking at us funny. Didn’t notice. The service was excellent though. And my coworker went to U Texas in Austin, so while I thought he may be used to that, maybe it made him more sensitive. 🤷♂️
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Mahalo for your clarification.
So, you openly believe Hawaiians and non-Hawaiian locals alike living in Hawaii are all racists.
GOT IT!
Your reading comprehension is as bad as your ability to stay on topic.
(https://i.imgur.com/cZBfe3Z.png?1)
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We’re they millennials? (Kidding)
I can see what you mean, but I’ve seen crappy service all around, everywhere. But if you see a pattern, then maybe different.
Maybe I’m not sensitive, oblivious, or completely fawkin’ clueless (probably last), but I haven’t really noticed the service one.
Was in northern Louisiana on a work trip with my coworker, who is a tall Chinese guy. No Asians since maybe an hour since leaving Houston. Anyways, we go to a Mexican restaurant our first night and another coworker joins us. He’s a haole from CA and works in CA (but married to local girl). Service was actually pretty good to me. Food and beers came quickly. After we’re done, we’re driving back to the hotel and they both were like “were we getting discriminated against?” And they both agreed. I hadn’t noticed anything. When we got there the host said no seats, but we could sit at the bar. Apparently, they noticed that when we were done, an area of floor seating that was empty when we got there was full of locals. I didn’t really notice, but I assumed an area opened up once they got staff for that area. Maybe they didn’t want to serve “our kind”. Dunno.
On the drive back to TX, we stop at a Whataburger and eat there. My coworker and I get our food and we’re eating. He keeps commenting on how we’re the only Asians in there and the locals (mostly white folks) are looking at us funny. Didn’t notice. The service was excellent though. And my coworker went to U Texas in Austin, so while I thought he may be used to that, maybe it made him more sensitive. 🤷♂️
There is little to do in a restaurant or bar other than "people watch". Just because someone is checking you out doesn't mean they are "looking at you funny".
I enjoy just watching what others are doing -- at casinos especially. i'm sure some thought I was not thinking nice thoughts. I was likely thinking about what I should have for dinner! :geekdanc:
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Take a good look at how many Hawaiian national flags are being flown on vehicles, houses, and office windows these days; there are many here and on the continental US. Moreover, those who are flying the colors brightly are not kapunas, but the youth and younger adults who know the truth and, along with us older folk, working to restore our nation on all fronts.
or they are doing what's trendy. like low pants or straight billed baseball caps...
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or they are doing what's trendy. like low pants or straight billed baseball caps...
Only time will tell, but you can be sure educating and reminding the population of the truth about the illegal occupation of Hawaii by the US will never cease.
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Only time will tell, but you can be sure educating and reminding the population of the truth about the illegal occupation of Hawaii by the US will never cease.
That is true because the “illegal occupation” of Hawaii by the US will indeed, never cease. Yet many believe preventing a telescope from being built will somehow help their cause.
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or they are doing what's trendy. like low pants or straight billed baseball caps...
Been my impression all along.
Recall too well the trendy anti Viet Nam war things, and how it was implied you had to join to be cool.
Also was rumored it was an easy way to score with liberal chicks.
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That is true because the “illegal occupation” of Hawaii by the US will indeed, never cease. Yet many believe preventing a telescope from being built will somehow help their cause.
So say the American imperialist who clearly does not understand his own nation's constitution that you would think would hold it so dear as the 2nd Amendment.
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Been my impression all along.
I do not think you know Hawaiians too well, especially now that many know the truth. 8)
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You can keep arguing about an illegal occupation while you enjoy many of the freedoms the USA affords you.
You can argue about what could have been if there was a Hawaiian Kingdom but that is unknown and will forever be unknown while the freedoms you enjoy now are clearly defined.
You can't argue that a hypothetical Hawaiian Kingdom will give you this or that right. No one will ever know because this social movement has been stuck on the second phase for decades and the cause is fractured beyond that phase. Too many people who claim to be of royalty and many factions of the Hawaiian Kingdom. The waving of flags around the world is a symptom of the spread of social media; as I stated earlier designed to invoke emotion but not critical thought. So now what? You got flags waving and so-called biased education - mostly from agents of Hawaiian chapter schools (whom receive their grants from the State). You have funds that are being diverted from the cause of the mauna to personal "interests" - so corruption is not only with the State as many claim. Then you have the many businesses, organizations and people-branding that are coat-tailing off this convoluted cause to promote their brand. I never saw the State flag with a tiki on it (hmmm... desecration?), mind as well have the Town and Country symbol on it as well. Take a few steps back and it's a circus with no theme.
And what about the Walmart on the Big Island? Lots of protests before it got built from Hawaiian homelands. But now everyone seems to shop at it. Where's the steadfast protests of "colonialism"? "Imperialism"?
From what I remember from mandatory Hawaiian studies in public school (isn't that something?) was that Hawaiians were explorers of the stars and the future. http://www.maunakeaandtmt.org/get-the-facts-ads/ (http://www.maunakeaandtmt.org/get-the-facts-ads/)
"Chad Kalepa Baybayan, captain and navigator of the Hawaiian voyaging canoes Hokulea, Hawaiiloa and Hokualakai – testified earlier this month at the contested case hearings in support of the TMT project. Baybayan said the Thirty Meter Telescope and the astronomers of today are a natural extension of the ancient Hawaiians who studied the stars while navigating across the Pacific Ocean."
They had leaders who were visionaries. The telescope would surely fit into their vision. From what I see from those that are anti (everything) they lack the vision the Hawaiian leaders had and I can see why they are "commoners". Keep the country, country. Resist any sort of change. That will be the legacy of no progress and people who will always be angry at something. https://www.instagram.com/kapu_aloha_ole/?igshid=r91f88lex2gu (https://www.instagram.com/kapu_aloha_ole/?igshid=r91f88lex2gu)
I'll repost this again, someone with a clear vision for the future: https://hanahou.com/22.2/the-kahuna-of-mookini (https://hanahou.com/22.2/the-kahuna-of-mookini)
“I believe totally in getting the new telescope built on Mauna Kea,” she says. “Our ancestors studied the heavens. Now a new generation of Hawaiians can have the opportunity to advance what they discovered. A telescope that can accomplish this maintains the sacredness of the mountain. With this and in other ways, we need to be open to the future to carry us forward to the many tomorrows yet to come.”
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Well said Ren.
If I could like this umpteenth times I would :thumbsup:
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You can keep arguing about an illegal occupation while you enjoy many of the freedoms the USA affords you.
You can argue about what could have been if there was a Hawaiian Kingdom but that is unknown and will forever be unknown while the freedoms you enjoy now are clearly defined.
This is not because the Americans did it for the benefit for Hawaiians, but they could not do otherwise based on their own domestic laws.
You can't argue that a hypothetical Hawaiian Kingdom will give you this or that right. No one will ever know because this social movement has been stuck on the second phase for decades and the cause is fractured beyond that phase.
It has been stuck for decades because the actual legal history of the annexation of Hawaii was not clearly understood until the last 20 years or so. As it can be seen now, many Hawaiians are using the correct legal vocabulary when discussing the legal status between Hawaii and the US.
Too many people who claim to be of royalty and many factions of the Hawaiian Kingdom. The waving of flags around the world is a symptom of the spread of social media; as I stated earlier designed to invoke emotion but not critical thought.
Apparently, you have not engaged in critical discussion with educated Hawaiians regarding this issue.
So now what? You got flags waving and so-called biased education - mostly from agents of Hawaiian chapter schools (whom receive their grants from the State). You have funds that are being diverted from the cause of the mauna to personal "interests" - so corruption is not only with the State as many claim. Then you have the many businesses, organizations and people-branding that are coat-tailing off this convoluted cause to promote their brand.
I have stated on this thread on at least one occasion that there a number of fake protestors on Mauna Kea just looking for personal gain.
I never saw the State flag with a tiki on it (hmmm... desecration?), mind as well have the Town and Country symbol on it as well. Take a few steps back and it's a circus with no theme.
Just some Hawaiian trying to be creative; no different from the Gadsden Flag used by the American colonists in their fight for freedom from the British.
And what about the Walmart on the Big Island? Lots of protests before it got built from Hawaiian homelands. But now everyone seems to shop at it. Where's the steadfast protests of "colonialism"? "Imperialism"?
Please do not confuse the concepts of colonialism and imperialism with that of capitalism. Hawaiians like to buy things too.
From what I remember from mandatory Hawaiian studies in public school (isn't that something?) was that Hawaiians were explorers of the stars and the future. http://www.maunakeaandtmt.org/get-the-facts-ads/ (http://www.maunakeaandtmt.org/get-the-facts-ads/)
That is only one of the few things your Hawaiian history classes got right. I bet they did not talk in-depth in regards to the illegal overthrow of the Hawaiian Kingdom nor its illegal annexation by the US.
"Chad Kalepa Baybayan, captain and navigator of the Hawaiian voyaging canoes Hokulea, Hawaiiloa and Hokualakai – testified earlier this month at the contested case hearings in support of the TMT project. Baybayan said the Thirty Meter Telescope and the astronomers of today are a natural extension of the ancient Hawaiians who studied the stars while navigating across the Pacific Ocean."
They had leaders who were visionaries. The telescope would surely fit into their vision. From what I see from those that are anti (everything) they lack the vision the Hawaiian leaders had and I can see why they are "commoners". Keep the country, country. Resist any sort of change. That will be the legacy of no progress and people who will always be angry at something. https://www.instagram.com/kapu_aloha_ole/?igshid=r91f88lex2gu (https://www.instagram.com/kapu_aloha_ole/?igshid=r91f88lex2gu)
I'll repost this again, someone with a clear vision for the future: https://hanahou.com/22.2/the-kahuna-of-mookini (https://hanahou.com/22.2/the-kahuna-of-mookini)
“I believe totally in getting the new telescope built on Mauna Kea,” she says. “Our ancestors studied the heavens. Now a new generation of Hawaiians can have the opportunity to advance what they discovered. A telescope that can accomplish this maintains the sacredness of the mountain. With this and in other ways, we need to be open to the future to carry us forward to the many tomorrows yet to come.”
All true, as telescopes are indeed nice, but the wrong people are making the decisions on Mauna Kea.
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Don't know why you use that tactic of quoting someone then writing your response in that quote.
As you can see, I quoted the sources of my info and they are educated Hawaiians. I have also spoken to educated Hawaiians and the arguments I presented were formulated from their responses as well. Do I need to speak to an ethnic Hawaiian to be valid? There are thousands of people that contributed to the growth and development of this State or what ever entity you believe it to be. For example, WiFi was created here. You're probably using it right now. ALL of us have contributed to the culture here. I was born and raised here. I'm not ethnic Hawaiian. So why is it the general message broadcasted is that only Hawaiians can have a say about the TMT project?
So how does a scientific project differ from a capitalist project in terms of imperialism and colonialism? Hawaiians are avid consumers like most Americans. So they love Walmart. There are over 11,000 Walmart stores. But don't you dare put one international telescope up there! It's sacred. Forget about the noble discoveries - let's buy more stuff!
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Don't know why you use that tactic of quoting someone then writing your response in that quote.
As you can see, I quoted the sources of my info and they are educated Hawaiians. I have also spoken to educated Hawaiians and the arguments I presented were formulated from their responses as well.
So how does a scientific project differ from a capitalist project in terms of imperialism and colonialism? Hawaiians are avid consumers like most Americans. So they love Walmart. There are over 11,000 Walmart stores. But don't you dare put one international telescope up there! It's sacred. Forget about the noble discoveries it could possible make - let's buy more stuff!
I have said more than one occasion on this thread; telescopes are wonderful in the furthering of human discovery.
However, Hawaiians are tired of being ignored and overruled every time they oppose something the so-called state decides to do. The protestors you see on the street are opposed to TMT, but are also out there protesting the illegal occupation of Hawaii as well. That's why you have been seeing a higher number of Hawaiian national flags flown in distress on so many vehicles, homes, and office windows.
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I have said more than one occasion on this thread; telescopes are wonderful in the furthering of human discovery.
However, Hawaiians are tired of being ignored and overruled every time they oppose something the so-called state decides to do. The protestors you see on the street are opposed to TMT, but are also out there protesting the illegal occupation of Hawaii as well. That's why you have been seeing a higher number of Hawaiian national flags flown in distress on so many vehicles, homes, and office windows.
Distress. Having a Walmart on Hawaiian homelands and a continuous flux of Hawaiian shoppers is not a sign of distress. The ability and right of the people to fly a flag of what ever they choose is not a sign of distress nor oppression. It's amazing that Amazon has over 7 pages of Hawaiian themed flags https://www.amazon.com/s?k=hawaiian+flag&ref=nb_sb_noss_2 (https://www.amazon.com/s?k=hawaiian+flag&ref=nb_sb_noss_2) Hmmm....I wonder how many "likes" and "followers" I would get if I put some flags on my lifted Toyota Tacoma?
This is a nation in distress:
(https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.ytimg.com%2Fvi%2F1ICxm_SK0U4%2Fmaxresdefault.jpg&f=1&nofb=1)
and this is a nation in distress on the REAL
https://www.history.com/topics/africa/rwandan-genocide (https://www.history.com/topics/africa/rwandan-genocide)
A nation with safe McDonalds to eat at, safe Walmarts to shop at and the freedom and ability to drive in a nice truck for a convoy is NOT a nation in distress.
So the State is not listening to you - Did you vote? Did you and others vote these leaders out of office? Is there a convoy to impeach anyone? Or to support any candidate that would further the movement?
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You can keep arguing about an illegal occupation while you enjoy many of the freedoms the USA affords you.
You can argue about what could have been if there was a Hawaiian Kingdom but that is unknown and will forever be unknown while the freedoms you enjoy now are clearly defined.
You can't argue that a hypothetical Hawaiian Kingdom will give you this or that right. No one will ever know because this social movement has been stuck on the second phase for decades and the cause is fractured beyond that phase. Too many people who claim to be of royalty and many factions of the Hawaiian Kingdom. The waving of flags around the world is a symptom of the spread of social media; as I stated earlier designed to invoke emotion but not critical thought.
IMO, lots of truth in there.
Freedoms and prosperity enjoyed over the decades. What if’s? What if Japan had bombed the fuel tanks in their initial raid? Hawaii would very much be a different place after years of brutal occupation. Going back to WWII history, the Japanese weren’t understanding occupiers. Asked those in Manchuria.
The social media and trendiness is also something I agree with and have mentioned before. A sign of the “awoke youth” latching onto what elders and authority figures say. Some based on reason and logic, but also some living a state of delusion.
The same broken record being spun round and round...
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Distress. Having a Walmart on Hawaiian homelands and a continuous flux of Hawaiian shoppers is not a sign of distress. The ability and right of the people to fly a flag of what ever they choose is not a sign of distress nor oppression. It's amazing that Amazon has over 7 pages of Hawaiian themed flags https://www.amazon.com/s?k=hawaiian+flag&ref=nb_sb_noss_2 (https://www.amazon.com/s?k=hawaiian+flag&ref=nb_sb_noss_2) Hmmm....I wonder how many "likes" and "followers" I would get if I put some flags on my lifted Toyota Tacoma?
This is a nation in distress:
(https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.ytimg.com%2Fvi%2F1ICxm_SK0U4%2Fmaxresdefault.jpg&f=1&nofb=1)
and this is a nation in distress on the REAL
https://www.history.com/topics/africa/rwandan-genocide (https://www.history.com/topics/africa/rwandan-genocide)
A nation with safe McDonalds to eat at, safe Walmarts to shop at and the freedom and ability to drive in a nice truck for a convoy is NOT a nation in distress.
So the State is not listening to you - Did you vote? Did you and others vote these leaders out of office? Is there a convoy to impeach anyone? Or to support any candidate that would further the movement?
You are partially right; the non-Hawaiian nationals living in Hawaii are not living in distress.
However the Hawaiian nationals living in Hawaii are suffering the ills of being an occupied nation. Hawaiians no longer have complete control of the civil authority to make decisions on public lands. Once more, if you bother to check the socio-economic statistics with respect to the population living on the islands, you will find Hawaiians ranked at or near the bottom on most of those categories.
Hawaiians are not begging the US to stay in Hawaii. Rather Hawaiians would be extremely happy if the US to return the civil authority back to its control as well as vacate all lands illegally occupied by the US military and federal agencies. NOTICE, I am not referring to non-US governmental entities or private individuals who currently are residing in Hawaii.
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Once more, if you bother to check the socio-economic statistics with respect to the population living on the islands, you will find Hawaiians ranked at or near the bottom on most of those categories.
So OBVIOUSLY that’s due to oppression?
There are lots of folks of Hawaiian ancestry that are prosperous. There are also lots of immigrant and imperialistic Americans living in Hawaii that are at the bottom of “categories”. Selective viewing and conveying of “facts” to support your vision.
Rational over emotional
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Freedoms and prosperity enjoyed over the decades. What if’s? What if Japan had bombed the fuel tanks in their initial raid? Hawaii would very much be a different place after years of brutal occupation. Going back to WWII history, the Japanese weren’t understanding occupiers. Asked those in Manchuria.
Certain freedoms yes, but prosperity definitely NO. Hawaiians rank at or near the bottom of most socio-economic metrics conducted by both government and NGOs. The bottom line is no people wants to be taken over by another country illegally. And Hawaiians want their nation back; it is that simple.
The social media and trendiness is also something I agree with and have mentioned before. A sign of the “awoke youth” latching onto what elders and authority figures say. Some based on reason and logic, but also some living a state of delusion.
True; there are a number of cult-like megalomaniacs running around in the Hawaiian communities claiming to be the next messiah. However, most of them have been discredited by most Hawaiians today.
The same broken record being spun round and round...
That was maybe 20 years ago, but the record has been repaired and the song now being played is in perfect harmony.
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Certain freedoms yes, but prosperity definitely NO. Hawaiians rank at or near the bottom of most socio-economic metrics conducted by both government and NGOs. The bottom line is no people wants to be taken over by another country illegally. And Hawaiians want their nation back; it is that simple.
True; there are a number of cult-like megalomaniacs running around in the Hawaiian communities claiming to be the next messiah. However, most of them have been discredited by most Hawaiians today.
That was maybe 20 years ago, but the record has been repaired and the song now being played is in perfect harmony.
I was gonna say no one wants to be occupied, illegally or otherwise. But there was Austria and Hitler. That didn’t really work out well now did it...
Noted on cults. However, in the case of the friends of Hawaiian ancestry that I’ve talked to, many still have a “well (someone well respected)” said so and I trust them. That they would never lead them astray. As a wise friend told me repeatedly, “trust but verify”.
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What about the fact that the illegally occupying forces of the United States hold down and force feed the "hawaiians" and are thus responsible for all the fat fucks contributing to "hawaiians" having the highest rates of obesity and diabetes, etc.? Since the "hawaiians" are at root genetically Chinese, and we know the obesity rate of Chinese is relatively low, this is more proof that there is no legal treaty of annexation.
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..... the obesity rate of Chinese is relatively low.......
the reason Pakes invented chopsticks, so no can shovel large amounts of food in your mouth had a high rate of speed.
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the reason Pakes invented chopsticks, so no can shovel large amounts of food in your mouth had a high rate of speed.
==========
Which is exactly why I prefer a fork. :rofl:
But seriously, regarding protestors claiming oppression and distress with the upside down flags...…
I was at Costco last week and saw some large expensive lifted pickup trucks with upside down flags.
If that is oppression and distress, then sign me up!
By the way, if you are shopping at Costco, you ain't in distress, are you?
+++end of rant+++
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So OBVIOUSLY that’s due to oppression?
There are lots of folks of Hawaiian ancestry that are prosperous. There are also lots of immigrant and imperialistic Americans living in Hawaii that are at the bottom of “categories”. Selective viewing and conveying of “facts” to support your vision.
Rational over emotional
The term prosperous is very subjective and the Hawaiians you speak of being prosperous are but a minority compared to the economically distressed majority of the Hawaiian population. The point is Hawaiians are competing for the same resources with others that would have not been legally allowed to settle in great numbers on the islands had the US not illegally annexed Hawaii back in 1898.
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The term prosperous is very subjective and the Hawaiians you speak of being prosperous are but a minority compared to the economically distressed majority of the Hawaiian population. The point is Hawaiians are competing for the same resources with others that would have not been legally allowed to settle in great numbers on the islands had the US not illegally annexed Hawaii back in 1898.
so you're admitting that Hawaiians are racists?
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The term prosperous is very subjective and the Hawaiians you speak of being prosperous are but a minority compared to the economically distressed majority of the Hawaiian population. The point is Hawaiians are competing for the same resources with others that would have not been legally allowed to settle in great numbers on the islands had the US not illegally annexed Hawaii back in 1898.
You are implying a "Hawaiians only" nation - so who is the elitist racist now?
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so you're admitting that Hawaiians are racists?
Where in my post you sighted did you get the idea I am saying Hawaiians are racists?
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You are implying a "Hawaiians only" nation - so who is the elitist racist now?
I refer to Hawaiians as a nationality rather than an ethnic group.
American descended Thurston and the other main insurgents that overthrew Liliuokalani were all Hawaiians by-the-way.
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The term prosperous is very subjective and the Hawaiians you speak of being prosperous are but a minority compared to the economically distressed majority of the Hawaiian population. The point is Hawaiians are competing for the same resources with others that would have not been legally allowed to settle in great numbers on the islands had the US not illegally annexed Hawaii back in 1898.
I refer to Hawaiians as a nationality rather than an ethnic group.
American descended Thurston and the other main insurgents that overthrew Liliuokalani were all Hawaiians by-the-way.
So we are all Hawaiians?
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Where in my post you sighted did you get the idea I am saying Hawaiians are racists?
I cited the portion I underlined
edited to add:
oops, no focus bolded
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So we are all Hawaiians?
If you were descended from a family that can adjudicate legal status in Hawaii prior to 1898, then yes, regardless of race or ethnicity, you would be considered Hawaiian by nationality. In fact, the Hawaii archives do contain comprehensive records of individuals who had legal status in Hawaii from the latter parts of the Monarchy period onwards.
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Where in my post you sighted did you get the idea I am saying Hawaiians are racists?
** cited
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** cited
focus
https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=34412.msg308948#msg308948
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focus
https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=34412.msg308948#msg308948
#focu
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If you were descended from a family that can adjudicate legal status in Hawaii prior to 1898, then yes, regardless of race or ethnicity, you would be considered Hawaiian by nationality. In fact, the Hawaii archives do contain comprehensive records of individuals who had legal status in Hawaii from the latter parts of the Monarchy period onwards.
I'm in then. Though, I am not sure I can produce the proper documentation to adjudicate. . . I'll be undocumented then. . .
Seriously though. I believe my grandparents on one side and great-grandparents on the other side all had legal status in Hawaii prior to 1898. I may even have birth certificates, or whatever it was called back then.
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the reason Pakes invented chopsticks, so no can shovel large amounts of food in your mouth had a high rate of speed.
Too late for me. I've become proficient in that mode of food consumption. :(
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I'm in then. Though, I am not sure I can produce the proper documentation to adjudicate. . . I'll be undocumented then. . .
Seriously though. I believe my grandparents on one side and great-grandparents on the other side all had legal status in Hawaii prior to 1898. I may even have birth certificates, or whatever it was called back then.
That makes me in too !
I'm 1/1,024th Hawaiian :D
Can also use chopstix. :rofl:
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So we are all Hawaiians?
Nope, not me ever.... I’m American, of which 25% is Mohawk, plain and simple... kick my ass out :thumbsup: :D
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I identify as Hawaiian -- if and when the US takes action that grants land or other forms of reparations to Hawaiians.
YOU don't have the right to tell ME who I must identify as. O0
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I'm in then. Though, I am not sure I can produce the proper documentation to adjudicate. . . I'll be undocumented then. . .
Seriously though. I believe my grandparents on one side and great-grandparents on the other side all had legal status in Hawaii prior to 1898. I may even have birth certificates, or whatever it was called back then.
If this is true, you, your legal wife, and children all have rights to claim legal citizenship when the political authority of Hawaii is restored from the US, should you choose too.
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I identify as Hawaiian -- if and when the US takes action that grants land or other forms of reparations to Hawaiians.
YOU don't have the right to tell ME who I must identify as. O0
You can identify yourself as anything you want, but your ancestors must show they had legal status in Hawaii prior to 1898, if you wish to be considered a Hawaiian national. :shaka:
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If this is true, you, your legal wife, and children all have rights to claim legal citizenship when the political authority of Hawaii is restored from the US, should you choose too.
Dammit. Gonna have some 'splainin' to do. . . ;D
Just kidding
Serious recommendation. Take a step back and breathe. Getting this worked up about this isn't healthy. Anyways, have a good weekend! :shaka: :thumbsup:
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You can identify yourself as anything you want, but your ancestors must show they had legal status in Hawaii prior to 1898, if you wish to be considered a Hawaiian national. :shaka:
Nope. You have to accommodate my identity, similar to calling a transgender by their preferred pronouns. To do otherwise is a hate crime. :shake:
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Nope. You have to accommodate my identity, similar to calling a transgender by their preferred pronouns. To do otherwise is a hate crime. :shake:
So you’re saying he has to recognize you as transgender? ??? :shake:
:rofl:
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So you’re saying he has to recognize you as transgender Hawaiian National? ??? :shake:
:rofl:
Fixed.
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Dammit. Gonna have some 'splainin' to do. . . ;D
Just kidding
Serious recommendation. Take a step back and breathe. Getting this worked up about this isn't healthy. Anyways, have a good weekend! :shaka: :thumbsup:
Much Mahalo.
I actually do like engaging in discourse about this topic. There are TOO MANY wannabe Kamehameha the Great, hate everybody except Kanakas, religious fanatics, 24 hrs. olelo / oli reciting, tattooed till you're blue, looking for money-only (OHA) Hawaiians sharing their legally incorrect views on this issue and only creating enemies, instead of sharing the truth based on laws that can be verified by anyone.
My sharing of the nation status of Hawaii from a legal perspective was to help clear up the damage from those misguided Hawaiians. I know my interpretation of the laws are unsettling to many, but at least everyone can double check the applicable laws for themselves.
Have a great weekend Hawaiian national! :shaka:
Wow, I must be anti-Hawaiian for saying those things above. :shake:
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Funny No?
So many guys willing to dispute Hawaiian Sovereignty and argue the Second Amendment but won’t refer to the Constitution in their dispute of Sovereignty.
Still a pipe dream though.
Pro-TMT. Get the protesters off the hill and let them protest at the capital.
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Funny No?
So many guys willing to dispute Hawaiian Sovereignty and argue the Second Amendment but won’t refer to the Constitution in their dispute of Sovereignty.
That's actually what is concerning with some 2nd Amendment supporters. There are some of them who think the "Right to Bear Arms" is the US Constitution and the Bill or Rights altogether. Moreover, those same people can recite the 2nd Amendment verbatim, but are at a loss of naming at least five of the other amendments in the Bill of Rights.
In fact, I would offer that the argument that the annexation of Hawaii by the US in 1898 was illegal; is less ambiguous than the peoples right to own guns inferred by the exact verbiage in the 2nd Amendment.
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That's actually what is concerning with some 2nd Amendment supporters. There are some of them who think the "Right to Bear Arms" is the US Constitution and the Bill or Rights altogether. Moreover, those same people can recite the 2nd Amendment verbatim, but are at a loss of naming at least five of the other amendments in the Bill of Rights.
In fact, I would offer that the argument that the annexation of Hawaii by the US in 1898 was illegal; is less ambiguous than the peoples right to own guns inferred by the exact verbiage in the 2nd Amendment.
:popcorn:
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Still a pipe dream though.
Pro-TMT. Get the protesters off the hill and let them protest at the capital.
Good idea. I like see them park along King St even during tow away hours with the upside down flags and 1000 people on the sidewalk. I want to know if HPD will enforce parking regulations despite the large crowd and if Oahu tow companies get more balls than the BI ones. The BI tow companies all said they not going tow from Mauna Kea. They afraid the peaceful non violent protesters will vandalize their vehicles later.
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Good idea. I like see them park along King St even during tow away hours with the upside down flags and 1000 people on the sidewalk. I want to know if HPD will enforce parking regulations despite the large crowd and if Oahu tow companies get more balls than the BI ones. The BI tow companies all said they not going tow from Mauna Kea. They afraid the peaceful non violent protesters will vandalize their vehicles later.
I'm on the big Island and I know how things work here.
The cops won't enforce many laws
because we know where they live.
Tow trucks same thing.
You big city Honolulu guys don't
have a clue.
You pass stupid laws,
we will just ignore them.
as do most other outer islands.
Don't ask a cop to arrest his "Auntie"
or Hanai "uncle".
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That's actually what is concerning with some 2nd Amendment supporters. There are some of them who think the "Right to Bear Arms" is the US Constitution and the Bill or Rights altogether. Moreover, those same people can recite the 2nd Amendment verbatim, but are at a loss of naming at least five of the other amendments in the Bill of Rights.
In fact, I would offer that the argument that the annexation of Hawaii by the US in 1898 was illegal; is less ambiguous than the peoples right to own guns inferred by the exact verbiage in the 2nd Amendment.
That is so inaccurate, it's scary.
The first 10 amendments to the Constitution are called "The Bill of Rights" and protect (not grant) the rights of the people -- rights which exist WITH OR WITHOUT a Constitution. They are intended to limit the power of the government to prevent violation of those rights.
There is no NATURAL RIGHT to sovereignty when the leaders of those annexed agreed to it. You're arguing about the technicalities and legalities involved. That's outside of any rights that the INDIVIDUAL enjoys -- i.e. the bill of Rights.
The US can (and has) killed foreign soldiers without holding a trial (no due process in accordance with Constitutional law). Why? Because a nation does not have natural rights. Nations are man-made entities that represent the individuals. However, a nation which is sovereign is not under the jurisdiction of the Constitution. It is up to the foreign nation to protect THEIR citizen's rights, not up to the US.
You're wanting to pretend the Constitution protected a sovereign nation's rights? Doesn't work that way.
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this is about TMT stay on topic.
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Don't know why they even bothered to appear at a U.S. court when they don't recognize the illegal US occupation.
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2019/09/21/kupuna-who-were-arrested-tmt-protest-july-plead-not-guilty-obstruction/ (https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2019/09/21/kupuna-who-were-arrested-tmt-protest-july-plead-not-guilty-obstruction/)
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I'm on the big Island and I know how things work here.
So am I. Happy resident of Puna, where the law fears to thread alone. Always 2 or more.
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this is about TMT stay on topic.
Sorry. Too easy to get sucked into the "Kuleana Sovereignty Circus." :wave: :popcorn:
(https://i.imgur.com/Oqei7tB.jpg)
#NoWaycist
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Sorry. Too easy to get sucked into the "Kuleana Sovereignty Circus." :wave: :popcorn:
(https://i.imgur.com/Oqei7tB.jpg)
#NoWaycist
eh.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yy7522T-tb8
but since I've grown up here that video captures the basic premise of Hawaiian sovereignty. "Visit. Go home, no stay"
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Caravan was going along Ala Moana Blvd maybe 45 mins ago.
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Ku Kiai Iolani Palace
https://www.khon2.com/top-stories/swarming-bees-force-the-closure-of-iolani-palace-as-efforts-to-remove-them-continue/ (https://www.khon2.com/top-stories/swarming-bees-force-the-closure-of-iolani-palace-as-efforts-to-remove-them-continue/)
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Just kill the bees. Liquid Sevin works real good.
And for the first time since the TMT protest started, I saw a white Silverado flying those two flags but he had them right side up. Did he not get the memo or does he realize the Hawaiian people not in distress?
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:sleeping: :sleeping: :sleeping:
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:sleeping: :sleeping: :sleeping:
============
I saw 3 blingy pickup trucks with upside down flags when I was driving home from the range yesterday.
That does not equate with being in "distress" as an upside down flag is supposed to represent.
One of the trucks had illegal oversized tires that probably cost more than my kid's college tuition.
They also had LED lights inside the wheel wells.
Is that a new kind of distress signal? :rofl:
Or perhaps it is so they can admire those tires at night since it cost them their last paycheck.
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============
I saw 3 blingy pickup trucks with upside down flags when I was driving home from the range yesterday.
That does not equate with being in "distress" as an upside down flag is supposed to represent.
One of the trucks had illegal oversized tires that probably cost more than my kid's college tuition.
They also had LED lights inside the wheel wells.
Is that a new kind of distress signal? :rofl:
Or perhaps it is so they can admire those tires at night since it cost them their last paycheck.
need a music vid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FnRnKHS5ds
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============
I saw 3 blingy pickup trucks with upside down flags when I was driving home from the range yesterday.
That does not equate with being in "distress" as an upside down flag is supposed to represent.
One of the trucks had illegal oversized tires that probably cost more than my kid's college tuition.
They also had LED lights inside the wheel wells.
Is that a new kind of distress signal? :rofl:
Or perhaps it is so they can admire those tires at night since it cost them their last paycheck.
Why do you equate a nation in distress from a purely an economical/financial perspective?
Just because a few Hawaiians had the means to acquire and dress up their vehicle the way they like it does not mean their nation is not in distress. Need I remind you that Hawaiians are almost at the bottom of every socio-economic metric in Hawaii.
The same could be said of 2nd Amendment advocates living in Hawaii in regards to the 10rds handgun magazine capacity limit for non-military/LE. Why are civilians in distress of not being allowed standard capacity magazines when the so-called Hawaii state government allows all types of semi-auto handguns to be owned? Obviously, civilian gun owners are in distress because it indirectly encroaches the rights of civilians to benefit from the full potential of the handgun they choose.
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Why do you equate a nation in distress from a purely an economical/financial perspective?
Just because a few Hawaiians had the means to acquire and dress up their vehicle the way they like it does not mean their nation is not in distress. Need I remind you that Hawaiians are almost at the bottom of every socio-economic metric in Hawaii.
The same could be said of 2nd Amendment advocates living in Hawaii in regards to the 10rds handgun magazine capacity limit for non-military/LE. Why are civilians in distress of not being allowed standard capacity magazines when the so-called Hawaii state government allows all types of semi-auto handguns to be owned? Obviously, civilian gun owners are in distress because it indirectly encroaches the rights of civilians to benefit from the full potential of the handgun they choose.
Just because a few yahoos display an upside down flag does not mean their nation is in distress.
Whoever said gun owners are in distress? Other than you just now. (Straw man argument)
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Why do you equate a nation in distress from a purely an economical/financial perspective?
Just because a few Hawaiians had the means to acquire and dress up their vehicle the way they like it does not mean their nation is not in distress. Need I remind you that Hawaiians are almost at the bottom of every socio-economic metric in Hawaii.
The same could be said of 2nd Amendment advocates living in Hawaii in regards to the 10rds handgun magazine capacity limit for non-military/LE. Why are civilians in distress of not being allowed standard capacity magazines when the so-called Hawaii state government allows all types of semi-auto handguns to be owned? Obviously, civilian gun owners are in distress because it indirectly encroaches the rights of civilians to benefit from the full potential of the handgun they choose.
https://media.myfavoritedailythings.com/wp-content/uploads/20180102200811/Know-it-all-5.jpg
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Why do you equate a nation in distress from a purely an economical/financial perspective?
Just because a few Hawaiians had the means to acquire and dress up their vehicle the way they like it does not mean their nation is not in distress. Need I remind you that Hawaiians are almost at the bottom of every socio-economic metric in Hawaii.
The same could be said of 2nd Amendment advocates living in Hawaii in regards to the 10rds handgun magazine capacity limit for non-military/LE. Why are civilians in distress of not being allowed standard capacity magazines when the so-called Hawaii state government allows all types of semi-auto handguns to be owned? Obviously, civilian gun owners are in distress because it indirectly encroaches the rights of civilians to benefit from the full potential of the handgun they choose.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :sleeping: :sleeping: :sleeping:
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so "The Rock" among several other celebs appeared on the Mauna
https://intercontinentalcry.org/hawaiians-oppose-plans-for-kamehameha-biopic-feat-dwayne-the-rock-johnson/ (https://intercontinentalcry.org/hawaiians-oppose-plans-for-kamehameha-biopic-feat-dwayne-the-rock-johnson/)
hmm....no desecration there....
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Why do you equate a nation in distress from a purely an economical/financial perspective?
Just because a few Hawaiians had the means to acquire and dress up their vehicle the way they like it does not mean their nation is not in distress. Need I remind you that Hawaiians are almost at the bottom of every socio-economic metric in Hawaii.
==========
I just wasted an hour of my time writing an eloquent response to your question. This site crashed the message when I tried to post it. :wtf:
Very frustrating
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Wow, get some real sensitive and touchy Hawaiians around. Gotta ask dey permission fo do any ting o dey goin get huhu with you.
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Just because a few yahoos display an upside down flag does not mean their nation is in distress.
Whoever said gun owners are in distress? Other than you just now. (Straw man argument)
Since you are the Obama admirer on this forum, I guess I should have known you would make a rebuttal statement like that.
I can assure you that there are a number of gun enthusiasts that are not only in distress, but are fuming at the gun control restrictions that have been enacted in Hawaii.
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Since you are the Obama admirer on this forum, I guess I should have known you would make a rebuttal statement like that.
I can assure you that there are a number of gun enthusiasts that are not only in distress, but are fuming at the gun control restrictions that have been enacted in Hawaii.
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Since you are the Obama admirer on this forum, I guess I should have known you would make a rebuttal statement like that.
I can assure you that there are a number of gun enthusiasts that are not only in distress, but are fuming at the gun control restrictions that have been enacted in Hawaii.
speak for yourself and your self-loathing. So what if we don't have more than 10 round mags. The only oppression and distress is the result of your own perception. While you see occupation the prosperous and happy Hawaiians (and other people of this State) see opportunities. I can't think of a better REAL place to be. That could be anybody in that music vid; all iced up; raining cash. You just have to work for it. All this victimhood, talk of racism, oppression are pages from the Dems playbook - and you fell for it.
I just enjoyed shopping and buying food in security. I'm using the internet and a technology that was born in HI.
I ate at Popeyes.
And I didn't even have to use my AK
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So what if we don't have more than 10 round mags.
Well, why don't you go to Zippz, the HRA and the HDF and tell them that they all should just chill out and forget organizing the 2nd Amendment community into fighting for gun rights.
I guess possessing standard capacity handgun magazines and having concealed/open carry is not important to you as others in this forum.
Well, it is important to me and I am very confident it is very important to many on this forum as well as to the people and the organizations I listed.
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Well, why don't you go to Zippz, the HRA and the HDF and tell them that they all should just chill out and forget organizing the 2nd Amendment community into fighting for gun rights.
I guess possessing standard capacity handgun magazines and having concealed/open carry is not important to you as others in this forum.
Well, it is important to me and I am very confident it is very important to many on this forum as well as to the people and the organizations I listed.
No. I don't have to do jack shit. Why don't you since you are feeling distressed.
I don't see them flying flags upside down because of 2A rights issues.
We are not in distress and I'm not flying ANY flag upside down for not having 10 round mags.
Widen your lense of life.
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No.
We are not in distress and I'm not flying ANY flag upside down for not having 10 round mags.
Widen your lense of life.
That's your opinion.
Guess what, the gun show is coming up so here's your chance to go to the booths and people there and tell them they should not be in distress, but happy as hell not having standard capacity magazines. According to you, 10rds is good enough.
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I have a very good friend who is chronically constipated so he dangles a toilet upside down on the back of his new F150 because he’s very distressed...... :wave: :D ;)
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That's your opinion.
Guess what, the gun show is coming up so here's your chance to go to the booths and people there and tell them they should not be in distress, but happy as hell not having standard capacity magazines. According to you, 10rds is good enough.
Good shot only needs one.....
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That's your opinion.
Guess what, the gun show is coming up so here's your chance to go to the booths and people there and tell them they should not be in distress, but happy as hell not having standard capacity magazines. According to you, 10rds is good enough.
I never said 10 rounds is enough. I don't agree with the laws but again, we are not in distress. I am happy. I wouldn't be happy if everything in my life I felt was "distressed". "MY chance" ? Well, thank you very much snowflake. Again, I live in a country of freedom. I don't have to do jack shit that I don't want to do. I'll tell all those pro 2A organizations good job :thumbsup: They are friendly, happy people and don't seem to be in "distress". They wouldn't fly the US flag in distress either.
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I never said 10 rounds is enough. I don't agree with the laws but again, we are not in distress. I am happy. I wouldn't be happy if everything in my life I felt was "distressed". "MY chance" ? Again, I live in a country of freedom. I don't have to do jack shit that I don't want to do. I'll tell all those pro 2A organizations good job :thumbsup:
Well the strict gun laws in Hawaii affects gun owners differently. I doubt Zippz, the HRA, or the HDF feel as optimistic as you with the way gun control has and still continues to move forward on all fronts. Such attitudes such as yours does not do justice to the time and sacrifices distressed 2nd Amendment supporters have gone through in this ongoing struggle.
Yeah, enjoy your Popeyes Chicken.
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That's your opinion.
Guess what, the gun show is coming up so here's your chance to go to the booths and people there and tell them they should not be in distress, but happy as hell not having standard capacity magazines. According to you, 10rds is good enough.
You have nothing BUT opinions. So, why is that even a valid comment about others?
In your life, there are only 2 options: DISTRESS and HAPPY AS HELL. Sounds like manic depression to me.
Must be rough to be distressed every single day that you aren't taking your meds happy as hell.
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You have nothing BUT opinions. So, why is that even a valid comment about others?
In your life, there are only 2 options: DISTRESS and HAPPY AS HELL. Sounds like manic depression to me.
Must be rough to be distressed every single day that you aren't taking your meds happy as hell.
If you know nothing of me, it is very arrogant to presume anything about my personal life.
However your negative personal comments on my person can be said the same of your admiration of former President Obama and being blind to the DISTRESS and PLIGHT of many 2nd Amendment supporters, which fuels their persevering and unending fight against gun control.
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Why do you equate a nation in distress from a purely an economical/financial perspective?
Just because a few Hawaiians had the means to acquire and dress up their vehicle the way they like it does not mean their nation is not in distress. Need I remind you that Hawaiians are almost at the bottom of every socio-economic metric in Hawaii.
====================
Anyway, getting back to topic…
The post that got crashed yesterday was basically an essay about the fact that neither the state nor federal government is going to roll over and play dead while Hawaiian activists take over 8 million acres of land. As far as I can see, nobody amongst the activists have a clue how to manage 8 million acres of land.
The rest of the post described how useless protesting with signs and flags are. Those people are much better off going back to school and working rather than spending precious time and money on air fare and camping gear. Even that illegal shack must have cost somebody some big bucks for materials….and for what? That shack could have been built on a lot to house some real people in distress, such as domestic abuse victims or victims of unfortunate tragedies. (eg.fires, floods)
The Hawaiian nation is not in distress. Places like Somalia, Afghanistan or the Philippines are nations in distress. The only distressed kanaka are those who choose to live a distressed lifestyle of drug abuse or criminal behavior. They chose poorly.
With few exceptions, America has given everyone a good shot at leading a happy, safe, and prosperous life. That includes all kanaka maoli. But like anything else in life, you have to work for it.
I was going to post a fabulous picture of my pure Hawaiian grandmother and kids circa 1930. The kids looked like ragamuffins and had no shoes or sandals. Yet they grew up and achieved happy productive lives. One became a nurse at Queens, one became a teacher and counselor, one became a police officer, my mom wrote cookbooks and articles in the newspaper and invented a popular juice drink.
My point is this:
If you are going to protest something you better be damn sure you have something to protest about.
If a kanaka is at the bottom of the socio-economic ladder, it was because they made some poor choices. Not because they are oppressed.
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Let them fly the State and their fictitious nation flag upside down
Why does this get everybody’s panties in a bunch?
I find it ironic that they even fly the State flag.
Will this get people of Hawaii closer to sovereignty? No. It’s a pipe dream.
Too proud to accept Nation-within a-Nation and too blind to see it’s a heck of an option and opportunity.
P.S. they should be protesting the bulldozing of Sherwood Forest and all its Iwi in my opinion.
-
====================
My point is this:
If a kanaka is at the bottom of the socio-economic ladder, it was because they made some poor choices.
Or learn how to milk da system betta.
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If you know nothing of me, it is very arrogant to presume anything about my personal life.
However your negative personal comments on my person can be said the same of your admiration of former President Obama and being blind to the DISTRESS and PLIGHT of many 2nd Amendment supporters, which fuels their persevering and unending fight against gun control.
Hypocrite. You know nothing of me, yet you tell everyone I love Obama and hate Hawaiians.
:wacko:
But nothing you post matters, because .... you know .... it's just your opinion. :rofl:
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https://www.simplypsychology.org/maslow.html (https://www.simplypsychology.org/maslow.html)
your pyramid of needs is inverted
-
your admiration of former President Obama
What in hell are you talking about?
Only that fish eye guy and maybe that aeia-someone have ever seemed to be admirers of Øbowel.
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I stopped at Walmart in Pearl Highlands area today. I happened to be behind a woman as I walked from the parking lot who was wearing a bright florescent yellow-green T-shirt.
On the back in large black lettering was:
AMERICAN
BY
FORCE
The irony of where she was shopping seemed to escape her.
I was tempted to stop her to ask who is using force preventing her from renouncing her citizenship.
I also wanted to mention there are tens of thousands of people entering the US illegally every month in hopes of eventually gaining citizenship for themselves and their children.
Maybe we can trade her for a Guatemalan? :shaka:
I opted to not engage her. I didn't want to wind up on the evening news as the Hawaiian-hating Haole that harasses distressed Walmart shoppers.
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I stopped at Walmart in Pearl Highlands area today. I happened to be behind a woman as I walked from the parking lot who was wearing a bright florescent yellow-green T-shirt.
On the back in large black lettering was:
AMERICAN
BY
FORCE
The irony of where she was shopping seemed to escape her.
I was tempted to stop her to ask who is using force preventing her from renouncing her citizenship.
I also wanted to mention there are tens of thousands of people entering the US illegally every month in hopes of eventually gaining citizenship for themselves and their children.
Maybe we can trade her for a Guatemalan? :shaka:
I opted to not engage her. I didn't want to wind up on the evening news as the Hawaiian-hating Haole that harasses distressed Walmart shoppers.
Nothing surprises me anymore...
Was following this van that had anti fracking, anti this and anti that banners on his tailgate. One in particular that caught my eye was one that said “NRA is a terrorist organization” alongside of a banner that said “U.S. NAVY RETIRED”. Decided to get in front of him so he could see my terrorist license plate frame with “Life Member National Rifle Association” on it. Guess he took a look and decided to lag way back all the way up Kam Hwy thru Kipapa gulch. After all I’m a terrorist and it could of scared him...
Yup I’m Navy retired also just don’t advertise it... :rofl: :D ;)
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my terrorist license plate frame with “Life Member National Rifle Association”
Where do you get those plate frames? NRA website?
I got VietVet plate hoping to piss off aging hippies.
Was advised against showing my NRA Life sticker as it might get someone following me home assuming I had firearms to steal?
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Where do you get those plate frames? NRA website?
I got VietVet plate hoping to piss off aging hippies.
Was advised against showing my NRA Life sticker as it might get someone following me home assuming I had firearms to steal?
Hmmmmm well dunno about someone following me home. I guess that could happen guess I walk on the wild side ;)
NRA website, NRA Store.... :D
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Let them fly the State and their fictitious nation flag upside down
Why does this get everybody’s panties in a bunch?
I find it ironic that they even fly the State flag.
No, they are flying the Hawaiian National Flag, nothing fictitious about that.
Will this get people of Hawaii closer to sovereignty? No. It’s a pipe dream.
Too proud to accept Nation-within a-Nation and too blind to see it’s a heck of an option and opportunity.
No, too knowledgeable of the illegal occupation of Hawaii by the US based on US Constitutional Law that anything other than deoccupation is a joke.
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I stopped at Walmart in Pearl Highlands area today. I happened to be behind a woman as I walked from the parking lot who was wearing a bright florescent yellow-green T-shirt.
On the back in large black lettering was:
AMERICAN
BY
FORCE
The irony of where she was shopping seemed to escape her.
I was tempted to stop her to ask who is using force preventing her from renouncing her citizenship.
I also wanted to mention there are tens of thousands of people entering the US illegally every month in hopes of eventually gaining citizenship for themselves and their children.
Maybe we can trade her for a Guatemalan? :shaka:
I opted to not engage her. I didn't want to wind up on the evening news as the Hawaiian-hating Haole that harasses distressed Walmart shoppers.
Your statements above would be valid if Hawai'i was a legal part of the USA. But alas, it is NOT because there is no US Constitutionally legal document that proves so.
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Let them fly the State and their fictitious nation flag upside down
Why does this get everybody’s panties in a bunch?
I find it ironic that they even fly the State flag.
No, they are flying the Hawaiian National Flag, nothing fictitious about that.
Will this get people of Hawaii closer to sovereignty? No. It’s a pipe dream.
Too proud to accept Nation-within a-Nation and too blind to see it’s a heck of an option and opportunity.
No, too knowledgeable of the illegal occupation of Hawaii by the US based on US Constitutional Law that anything other than deoccupation is a joke.
Nope. There is no Hawaiian Nation, so by default, no Hawaiian National Flag.
The flag was ONCE (as in "is no more") used by the Kingdom of Hawaii, but that flag is now the official flag of the State of Hawaii -- "State", as in United States of America.
Denial doesn't trump reality. The Nation of Hawaii does not exist. To deny that fact is a sign of intellectual dishonesty. You'll never win the fight you pretend to champion because no one takes delusional people seriously.
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I thought this thread was about TMT? ???
:stopjack: :stopjack: :stopjack: :stopjack: :stopjack: :stopjack:
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I thought this thread was about TMT? ???
:stopjack: :stopjack: :stopjack: :stopjack: :stopjack: :stopjack:
I thought the protests were about TMT, too.
Apparently the protests are just a massive grab for attention to air non-TMT-specific issues.
This thread is mirroring the protests. The topic is what it is.
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They held a rally at the Convention Center.
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2019/09/24/protest-leaders-draw-hundreds-native-hawaiian-convention/
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The flag with the Union Jack (Hawaii State Flag) existed before 1843.
In 1816, the flag was created by order of Kamehameha I.
1794-1816 Hawaii flew Union Jack as its National Flag
1816-1843 Hawaii flew early version of present flag
25 Feb - 31 July 1843 British occupation; all Hawaiian Flags were destroyed
31 July 1843 King Kamehameha III spoke his famous prayer of thanksgiving, a part of which serves today as the State Motto while a Hawaiian Flag that included a dove and olive branch was hoisted.
20 May 1845 present Hawaiian Flag adopted
1 Feb - 1 April 1893 U.S. Flag flown in Hawaii
1894 Republic of Hawaii readopts Hawaiian Flag
1898-1959 Territory of Hawaii uses Hawaiian Flag (confirmed 1903)
1959-present State of Hawaii uses Hawaiian Flag (confirmed 1959)
The Kanaka Maoli—or "native Hawaiian"—flag was introduced to the public by Gene Simeona of Honolulu in 2001. :o
It was based upon the royal flag, also called the royal ensign, a flag that signals the presence of the Hawaiian monarch .
It was stripes of red, white and blue with crest in center vs Kanaka Maoli flag with its green, red and yellow stripes bearing only the paddles from the center of the original flag's crest.
https://hawaiiankingdom.org/blog/the-hawaiian-national-flag-and-royal-flag/
:closed: :stopjack:
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HNN said Keaau HS principal banned students from wearing the Hawaiian flag in school and plenny peopo wen get all huhu.
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TMT is just a political "whipping boy" for the Hawaiian activists. They said so in less direct words:
“I think Mauna Kea has provided us something that we have never seen at least not in my time
and now it’s how do we advance our Hawaiian people so that they are sustainable,” said Kuhio
Lewis, CEO for the Council for Native Hawaiian Advancement.
They don't care about the telescope. it could be a national park or campground. It's all about getting attention for their cause -- no matter the cost to everyone in the state.
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2019/09/24/protest-leaders-draw-hundreds-native-hawaiian-convention/
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I'm sure this guy is watching the illegal Mauna Kea road blockade by the superstitious racists and thinking that if his lawsuit doesn't work out he will sit in the road to the airport... maybe for months.
Cuban-American claims to be rightful owner of Havana airport, sues airlines
A lawsuit has been filed in Miami on behalf of a Cuban-American - who claims to be the rightful owner of Havana's international airport - against American Airlines and the Latam Airlines Group for “trafficking'' in the property that he claims was stolen by the Cuban government.
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HNN said Keaau HS principal banned students from wearing the Hawaiian flag in school and plenny peopo wen get all huhu.
Can the school even do that legally?
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Can the school even do that legally?
There have been some schools that ban the wearing of Americana attire. Not sure if that went anywhere legally.
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I've always said TMT would never be built.
My initial reasoning was cost and racial Hawaiian
( I don't believe there is a Hawaiian race)opposition.
I just read, #2 site in the Canary islands, LaPalma was just
shut down for ecological reasons by their government.
So it is Mauna Kea or bust.
Don't get me wrong I helped do studies to prove TMT was
feasible, and I know many people that work on it.
I think it is an amazing machine. I'd rather they spent all
that money and talent on Cancer research or Fusion reactors.
Let James Webb space telescope and the rest of the Earth
observatories study history.
I'm more interested in the future.
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There have been some schools that ban the wearing of Americana attire. Not sure if that went anywhere legally.
I am pretty sure they can't blanket ban stuff except in certain circumstances like clothing with gang symbols, drug use, or pornography which can be articulated to be problematic. The way around it is to require uniforms. I could be wrong though, I don't know if it has been legally challenged either.
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Keaau HS requires students to wear a school tshirt. They were using flags as capes which made it difficult for school security to id students.
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https://www.kitv.com/story/41111802/civil-beat-office-of-hawaiian-affairs-has-spent-dollar39k-to-support-activists-on-mauna-kea (https://www.kitv.com/story/41111802/civil-beat-office-of-hawaiian-affairs-has-spent-dollar39k-to-support-activists-on-mauna-kea)
it's akin to selling my guns and donating the funds to the Brady Campaign
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https://www.kitv.com/story/41111802/civil-beat-office-of-hawaiian-affairs-has-spent-dollar39k-to-support-activists-on-mauna-kea (https://www.kitv.com/story/41111802/civil-beat-office-of-hawaiian-affairs-has-spent-dollar39k-to-support-activists-on-mauna-kea)
it's akin to selling my guns and donating the funds to the Brady Campaign
They are trying to buy themselves back into good graces. Hope Hawaiian are smarter than that, OHA has been screwing Hawaiians all over the place...
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2202526446706948&id=100008488416263
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They are trying to buy themselves back into good graces. Hope Hawaiian are smarter than that, OHA has been screwing Hawaiians all over the place...
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2202526446706948&id=100008488416263
Many Hawaiians are aware of what OHA really is.
OHA is nothing, but an organization that was created by the so-called Hawaii state government and funded by federal monies to keep Hawaiians under control while the illegal occupation and exploitation of Hawaiian Kingdom lands by the US continues. They only spend a fraction of the money in their possession on the betterment of Hawaiians and share the majority of the wealth among themselves and their cronies.
They fanatically support having Hawaiians assent to being a "nation within a nation" like a Native American Indian tribe and are obviously against any movement for the restoration of the Hawaiian nation state. They are nothing but a puppet organization of the US funded by American taxpayers.
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Many Hawaiians are aware of what OHA really is.
OHA is nothing, but an organization that was created by the so-called Hawaii state government and funded by federal monies to keep Hawaiians under control while the illegal occupation and exploitation of Hawaiian Kingdom lands by the US continues. They only spend a fraction of the money in their possession on the betterment of Hawaiians and share the majority of the wealth among themselves and their cronies.
They fanatically support having Hawaiians assent to being a "nation within a nation" like a Native American Indian tribe and are obviously against any movement for the restoration of the Hawaiian nation state. They are nothing but a puppet organization of the US funded by American taxpayers.
However, OHA is elected. Hawaiians should organize and elect people that will not be "puppets".
I never hear anything much about the OHA candidates, I have a hard time even finding what policies they root for. Should use your American freedoms to better your situation.
Organize grass roots informational campaigns. Since anyone can vote for OHA trustees, more info needs to be disseminated. Also, voter registration drives, and encouragement to actually vote when the time comes.
I would vote for pro Hawaiian candidates (as long as they are pro 2A of course)
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However, OHA is elected. Hawaiians should organize and elect people that will not be "puppets".
I never hear anything much about the OHA candidates, I have a hard time even finding what policies they root for. Should use your American freedoms to better your situation.
Organize grass roots informational campaigns. Since anyone can vote for OHA trustees, more info needs to be disseminated. Also, voter registration drives, and encouragement to actually vote when the time comes.
I would vote for pro Hawaiian candidates (as long as they are pro 2A of course)
Similar to all other elections for public office in the US, where Americans are often faced with choosing pre-selected political candidates; most candidates for OHA are either already compromised or totally clueless and unqualified for the duties that is expected of them.
Moreover, as most Hawaiians know what the mission of OHA really is, that is to keep Hawaiians under control; that is why potentially legitimate and capable Hawaiian candidates will not waste their time being a part of that organization.
It is nice to hear, however, there are some on this forum who genuinely respect Hawaiians, as evidenced by the CIVIL RESPONSES they post. :shaka:
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http://www.hawaiifreepress.com/ArticlesDailyNews/tabid/65/ID/20926/January-13-2018-News-Read.aspx (http://www.hawaiifreepress.com/ArticlesDailyNews/tabid/65/ID/20926/January-13-2018-News-Read.aspx)
https://www.khon2.com/news/oha-trustee-to-fight-citation-explains-why-she-left-the-scene-of-an-accident/ (https://www.khon2.com/news/oha-trustee-to-fight-citation-explains-why-she-left-the-scene-of-an-accident/)
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I never hear anything much about the OHA candidates, I have a hard time even finding what policies they root for. Should use your American freedoms to better your situation.
Yes, run into that problem every election. How are you supposed to choose?
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Today it was disclosed that the TMT protest is costing Hawaii County $50,000 a day. The county budget is $55,533,138 requested for 2019-20 fiscal year, of which $26,100,000 is used to pay additional salary increases, retiree benefits, wages and health care for all of them. The remaining $29,433,138 is being reduced at the rate of $1,500,000 per month by those sitting on the mauna.
But look on the bright side. The porta potty companies and their employees are making extra money. Good job everyone.
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Today it was disclosed that the TMT protest is costing Hawaii County $50,000 a day. The county budget is $55,533,138 requested for 2019-20 fiscal year, of which $26,100,000 is used to pay additional salary increases, retiree benefits, wages and health care for all of them. The remaining $29,433,138 is being reduced at the rate of $1,500,000 per month by those sitting on the mauna.
But look on the bright side. The porta potty companies and their employees are making extra money. Good job everyone.
A(nother) bright and shining example of the superior politically-correct Democrat ideologue rulers (Ige, Lyin' Harry Kim, Chief Ferreira, et al.) of we Hawaii subjects. Can't wait for the "kingdom" to be restored so we will have even more benefits of being ruled by superstitious racist dictators (once they resolve the heavy fighting about who the true top of the royalty pile is...).
The superstitious racist "protesters" said today (in response to Lyin' Harry's full color "brochure" with the insipid "heart" geological feature on the cover... you can't make this stuff up!) that they will never allow TMT (or anything else) to EVER despoil their "sacred"-designated lands (obviously not the lands they lease for tens of millions of dollars per year to WalMart, Target, Home Depot, Safeway, etc.). If you saw this crap as part of a movie, you'd say "I can't suspend my disbelief THAT MUCH! That kind of stupid sh*t could never happen in real life... makes the movie plot absurd."
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Today it was disclosed that the TMT protest is costing Hawaii County $50,000 a day. The county budget is $55,533,138 requested for 2019-20 fiscal year, of which $26,100,000 is used to pay additional salary increases, retiree benefits, wages and health care for all of them. The remaining $29,433,138 is being reduced at the rate of $1,500,000 per month by those sitting on the mauna.
But look on the bright side. The porta potty companies and their employees are making extra money. Good job everyone.
I just read something along the lines of the TMT project committee/board/whatever is in favor of sticking it out, for years if need be. That the Maunakea site is that advantageous.
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I just read something along the lines of the TMT project committee/board/whatever is in favor of sticking it out, for years if need be. That the Maunakea site is that advantageous.
I guess you did not read my comment, so I will repeat.
"I just read, #2 site in the Canary islands, LaPalma was just
shut down for ecological reasons by their government.
So it is Mauna Kea or bust."
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I guess you did not read my comment, so I will repeat.
"I just read, #2 site in the Canary islands, LaPalma was just
shut down for ecological reasons by their government.
So it is Mauna Kea or bust."
No, I didn’t. Generally don’t...
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No, I didn’t. Generally don’t...
Well, I read your comments.
In fact I read most all the comments on this site.
I'm a fast reader.
Keep up your efforts.
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Well, I read your comments.
In fact I read most all the comments on this site.
I'm a fast reader.
Keep up your efforts.
I actually do read most of your comments. Missed that one. That said, your comments tend to be basically the same thing, so maybe I just read the first couple of lines before tuning out. . .
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At this point, I think they should abandon TMT and turn that place into a permanent stage for Merrie Monarch.
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Can't wait for the "kingdom" to be restored so we will have even more benefits of being ruled by superstitious racist dictators (once they resolve the heavy fighting about who the true top of the royalty pile is...).
Why do keep insulting Hawaiians who wish to see the rightful and legal restoration of their nation and sovereign government as all superstitious racist dictators?
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Why do keep insulting Hawaiians who wish to see the rightful and legal restoration of their nation and sovereign government as all superstitious racist dictators?
that's a point / demerit for him
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However, OHA is elected. Hawaiians should organize and elect people that will not be "puppets".
I never hear anything much about the OHA candidates, I have a hard time even finding what policies they root for. Should use your American freedoms to better your situation.
Organize grass roots informational campaigns. Since anyone can vote for OHA trustees, more info needs to be disseminated. Also, voter registration drives, and encouragement to actually vote when the time comes.
I would vote for pro Hawaiian candidates (as long as they are pro 2A of course)
What is the sovereign nation’s official policy on gun rights?
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What is the sovereign nation’s official policy on gun rights?
nothing guaranteed.
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Hawaiians who wish to see the rightful and legal restoration of their nation and sovereign government
Kuleana,
Haven’t the courts ruled on this?
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2009-apr-01-na-supreme-court-hawaii1-story.html
http://www.abajournal.com/magazine/article/greetings_from_independent_hawaii
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Kuleana,
Haven’t the courts ruled on this?
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2009-apr-01-na-supreme-court-hawaii1-story.html
http://www.abajournal.com/magazine/article/greetings_from_independent_hawaii
No. None of the US Courts have ever touched a case with the primary issue was the US unconstitutional annexation of Hawaii in 1898.
I believe there has been complaints/suits filed in both federal and state court and none of those complaints have ever been officially given due process.
If such a case did occur and ruled against Hawaiians, it would have already have been presented publicly and offered as rebuttal evidence for those against the restoration of the Hawaiian nation state.
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No. None of the US Courts have ever touched a case with the primary issue was the US unconstitutional annexation of Hawaii in 1898.
I believe there has been complaints/suits filed in both federal and state court and none of those complaints have ever been officially given due process.
If such a case did occur and ruled against Hawaiians, it would have already have been presented publicly and offered as rebuttal evidence for those against the restoration of the Hawaiian nation state.
Just to clarify, if instead of annexing Hawaii, America just declared war and took over by force, then you would not say the whole thing was illegal? It seems your suggestion that the annexation was illegal depends on technical language about annexation.
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Just to clarify, if instead of annexing Hawaii, America just declared war and took over by force, then you would not say the whole thing was illegal? It seems your suggestion that the annexation was illegal depends on technical language about annexation.
First of all, let me say the US and Hawaii are still in a state of war.
In affairs between recognized nation states, the relationship between them can only be in a state of war or peace. A state of war exists when one side declares war on the other or when one side commits acts of war without any declaration. Once war begins, a state of peace can only come about via a treaty of peace, which may or may not include any territory lost during that war. If there is no such treaty of peace, like in the case of the Korean War, there is no official end to hostilities and territory taken at the end of such hostilities is not official and can be described at occupied territories (e.g. West Bank, Gaza Strip, and the Golan Heights are illegally occupied by Israel).
In the case of Hawaii, the US did commit an act of war by participating in the overthrow of Queen Liliuokalani in 1893. After her being deposed, the so-called Republic of Hawaii was never recognized as the legitimate government by the US, as evidenced by the US not immediately annexing Hawaii as the Caucasian insurrectionists/traitors who instigated the overthrow of Liliuokalani had hoped and was the sole reason why they overthrew her at the very beginning. Fast forwarding to 1898, the US was getting into war with Spain and her colonies and the imperialist President McKinley wanted Pearl Harbor as a naval base to control the sea-lanes in the Pacific. He initially tried to annex Hawaii LEGALLY via the US State Department, but was the vote to annex Hawaii was DEFEATED in the Senate due to the famous Kue Petition that was presented to Congress showing Hawaiians did not want to be part of the US. Not giving up, the imperialists in US Government got Congress to draft and pass the Newlands Resolution in 1898, which President McKinley signed. Since Congress has no jurisdiction to enact legislation of territorial acquisition, the annexation of Hawaii in 1898 is illegal based on US Constitutional Law.
Consequently, since no official treaty of peace or annexation exists, a state of war exists between the US and Hawaii and America's government / military presence in Hawaii as of date is illegal and can only be described as an illegal occupation.
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First of all, let me say the US and Hawaii are still in a state of war.
In affairs between recognized nation states, the relationship between them can only be in a state of war or peace. A state of war exists when one side declares war on the other or when one side commits acts of war without any declaration. Once war begins, a state of peace can only come about via a treaty of peace, which may or may not include any territory lost during that war. If there is no such treaty of peace, like in the case of the Korean War, there is no official end to hostilities and territory taken at the end of such hostilities is not official and can be described at occupied territories (e.g. West Bank, Gaza Strip, and the Golan Heights are illegally occupied by Israel).
In the case of Hawaii, the US did commit an act of war by participating in the overthrow of Queen Liliuokalani in 1893. After her being deposed, the so-called Republic of Hawaii was never recognized as the legitimate government by the US, as evidenced by the US not immediately annexing Hawaii as the Caucasian insurrectionists/traitors who instigated the overthrow of Liliuokalani had hoped and was the sole reason why they overthrew her at the very beginning. Fast forwarding to 1898, the US was getting into war with Spain and her colonies and the imperialist President McKinley wanted Pearl Harbor as a naval base to control the sea-lanes in the Pacific. He initially tried to annex Hawaii legally via the US State Department, but was the vote to annex Hawaii was defeated in the Senate due to the famous Kue Petition that was presented to Congress showing Hawaiians did not want to be part of the US. Not giving up, the imperialists in US Government got Congress to draft and pass the Newlands Resolution in 1898, which President McKinley signed. Since Congress has no jurisdiction to enact legislation of territorial acquisition, the annexation of Hawaii in 1898 is illegal based on US Constitutional Law.
Consequently, since no official treaty of peace or annexation exists, America's government and military presence in Hawaii as of date is illegal and can only be described as an illegal occupation
who recognizes Hawaii as a Nation-State?
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who recognizes Hawaii as a Nation-State?
From my understanding, the Court of Arbitration in the Hague, the UN Human Rights Council, and the National Education Association (NEA). In the case of the NEA, the illegal occupation of Hawaii by the US will be taught to American K-12, undergraduate, and graduate students, whose teachers are affiliated by the NEA.
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From my understanding, the Court of Arbitration in the Hague, the UN Human Rights Council, and the National Educational Association (NEA). In the case of the NEA, the illegal occupation of Hawaii by the US will be taught to American K-12, undergraduate, and graduate students, whose teachers are affiliated by the NEA.
sorry, which Nation-State recognizes Hawaii as a Nation-State?
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who recognizes Hawaii as a Nation-State?
At the risk of boring DRCK1000 and others.
At one time Hawaii was recognized as a Nation,
by some other nations.
Kind of like Texas was an independent Republic.
But most recently Hawaii voted to become a
state in the USA.
We know what happens when states try to
change their mind. It doesn't go so well
for them.
Keep running over that flat possum in the road.
It is entertaining.
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(https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/013/003/dead-horse.jpg) x 121
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At the risk of boring DRCK1000 and others.
At one time Hawaii was recognized as a Nation,
by some other nations.
Kind of like Texas was an independent Republic.
But most recently Hawaii voted to become a
state in the USA.
We know what happens when states try to
change their mind. It doesn't go so well
for them.
Keep running over that flat possum in the road.
It is entertaining.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :thumbsup:
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Way off topic again. :stopjack:
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Ok, get ready for some traffic disruptions around Waikiki this afternoon.
https://www.khon2.com/local-news/aloha-aina-unity-march-for-mauna-kea-will-close-areas-around-waikiki-saturday-afternoon/
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Price tag for the maunalolos is up to 8 million dollars.
I don't want to pay for this.
The protestors better start paying their share. Where are the celebs when you need their money?
If they can't pay a few million, how are they going to manage an 8 million acre mountain???
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Price tag for the maunalolos is up to 8 million dollars.
I don't want to pay for this.
The protestors better start paying their share. Where are the celebs when you need their money?
If they can't pay a few million, how are they going to manage an 8 million acre mountain???
Hawaiians are no longer on the sidelines whining about what they believe in. Non-violent civil disobedience at its finest. KAPU ALOHA!
Too bad 2nd Amendment supporters in Hawaii are no where near as unified nor have the conviction to fight for what they believe in the streets for any meaningful amount of time that gets everyone's attention in the isles.
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Hawaiians are no longer on the sidelines whining about what they believe in. Non-violent civil disobedience at its finest. KAPU ALOHA!
Too bad 2nd Amendment supporters in Hawaii are no where near as unified nor have the conviction to fight for what they believe in the streets for any meaningful amount of time that gets everyone's attention in the isles.
:sleeping: :sleeping: :sleeping: :sleeping: :sleeping: SOS!
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And da beat goes on.
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And da beat goes on.
The Hawaiian people have finally awoken. :thumbsup:
Restoration here we come! :geekdanc:
IMUA!
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The Hawaiian people have finally awoken. :thumbsup:
Restoration here we come! :geekdanc:
IMUA!
For more information call 1 800 Whatever, Operators are standing by! :D
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let's see now, Puerto Rico, wants to be a state. Hong Kong, wants to be a state. DC wants to be a state. Hawaii, doesn't want to be a state. California shouldn't be a state, but wants to be 3 or 6 states maybe. Chicago wants to be it's own state.
I can not even keep track any more who's coming and who's going.
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let's see now, Puerto Rico, wants to be a state. Hong Kong, wants to be a state. DC wants to be a state. Hawaii, doesn't want to be a state. California shouldn't be a state, but wants to be 3 or 6 states maybe. Chicago wants to be it's own state.
I can not even keep track any more who's coming and who's going.
Guess they have to “state” their intentions or “state” of mind.... :wacko:
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For more information call 1 800 Whatever, Operators are standing by! :D
Busy signal... how blur trying 1 800 who cares? :D
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The Hawaiian people have finally awoken. :thumbsup:
Restoration here we come! :geekdanc:
IMUA!
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Guess they have to “state” their intentions or “state” of mind.... :wacko:
....
I would like someone who represents the protesters to "state" how much better my life will be if they get everything they ask for.
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....
I would like someone who represents the protesters to "state" how much better my life will be if they get everything they ask for.
Is that your final “state”ment, my friend?
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Today’s report by the State AG Office said the TMT protest has costed Hawai’i taxpayers, that means you and I, $8,993,000 so far with no end in sight.
Could have put AC in a lot of classrooms. For the children. What a monumental waste of money.
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Today’s report by the State AG Office said the TMT protest has costed Hawai’i taxpayers, that means you and I, $8,993,000 so far with no end in sight.
Could have put AC in a lot of classrooms. For the children. What a monumental waste of money.
keiki are in distress!
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Today’s report by the State AG Office said the TMT protest has costed Hawai’i taxpayers, that means you and I, $8,993,000 so far with no end in sight.
Could have put AC in a lot of classrooms. For the children. What a monumental waste of money.
====
YUP
Hence the term, "MAUNALOLOS"
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get your protest flags here: https://www.goattrendz.com/flags (https://www.goattrendz.com/flags)
get your name on the State Flag too! Can! :shaka:
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Just saw this company on instagram.
"we are Manapua" and "katsu aloha"
I want to buy one of their shirts but hope it don't get me beat up.
https://wearemanapua.com
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Just saw this company on instagram.
"we are Manapua" and "katsu aloha"
I want to buy one of their shirts but hope it don't get me beat up.
https://wearemanapua.com
Nah, no scade buy um en wea um brah. All tose Aole TMT buggas ah peaceful kine guys lidat.
Why you stay tink dey goin lik beat you up?
I think they are cool shirts, but I wouldn’t buy one. I might get beat up. LOL.
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Just saw this company on instagram.
"we are Manapua" and "katsu aloha"
I want to buy one of their shirts but hope it don't get me beat up.
https://wearemanapua.com
I like those shirts but there's no story behind the company
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Watching evening news and they said the camp has dwindled down to about 150 due to the harsh conditions as winter approaches. It is not even half way thru fall. Temps are getting down to high 30s already at night.
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Watching evening news and they said the camp has dwindled down to about 150 due to the harsh conditions as winter approaches. It is not even half way thru fall. Temps are getting down to high 30s already at night.
Explains why protestors showed up at a TMT financial sponsor's home in California this weekend. :rofl:
It's 60º in Palo Alto right now (10PM).
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2019/10/15/opponents-tmt-project-protesting-outside-foundation-california/
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Explains why protestors showed up at a TMT financial sponsor's home in California this weekend. :rofl:
It's 60º in Palo Alto right now (10PM).
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2019/10/15/opponents-tmt-project-protesting-outside-foundation-california/
Palo Alto Chapter of MaunaLoloz
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdVf8V6k7l4
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Watching evening news and they said the camp has dwindled down to about 150 due to the harsh conditions as winter approaches. It is not even half way thru fall. Temps are getting down to high 30s already at night.
....
Reality bites, eh?
How about get a bunch of pro-tmt activists to block the road to the anti-tmt camp.
Hilarious!
Would the protesters call the police to clear the road? :rofl:
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As expected, any future projects of any kind are going to be met with "community" opposition.
Therefore no investor is going to build anything anywhere any more.
We can thank the maunalolos for this.
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2019/11/01/landlord-nixes-hawaii-spaceport-project-big-island/
I don't want to hear any complaints about depressed economy or jobs for our keiki.
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Shipman Park is a nightmare to get out of, especially during rush hours. I don't know how many acres they need, but the BI get plenty vacant land.
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It was cold last night on the BI. Mauna Kea summitt got down to 19 degrees F last night. Wonder how cold it got where the A'ole TMT camp is.
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As expected, any future projects of any kind are going to be met with "community" opposition.
Therefore no investor is going to build anything anywhere any more.
We can thank the maunalolos for this.
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2019/11/01/landlord-nixes-hawaii-spaceport-project-big-island/
I don't want to hear any complaints about depressed economy or jobs for our keiki.
Hopefully, with the proliferation of the Internet, new generations will understand that the only thing sacred is life -- existing and future. Deceased relatives aren't going to begrudge a spot of land from the living.
I'm planning to be cremated. I have yet to decide where I want my ashes spread. Needless to say, my list includes places owned by people who can afford to pay my family millions for the privilege of desecrating that soon-to-be "sacred" spot. :thumbsup: :geekdanc: :rofl:
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New rules for Mauna Kea posted by UH.
https://www.hawaiitribune-herald.com/2019/11/01/hawaii-news/maunakea-rules-unveiled/
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This article makes sense and I would really like to see what would happen if they did.
https://medium.com/@aramis720/protectors-please-turn-your-gaze-to-pta-9244bb8ab0de
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This article makes sense and I would really like to see what would happen if they did.
https://medium.com/@aramis720/protectors-please-turn-your-gaze-to-pta-9244bb8ab0de
there's no money there
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there's no money there
perhaps that is where the the ICBM silos are...
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perhaps that is where the the ICBM silos are...
It's got you stut-stut-stuttering?
:rofl:
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It's got you stut-stut-stuttering?
:rofl:
heads
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Well it is going to be an interesting next 7 days up on the mauna. LEOs from all agencies are leaving today and the protecters have been given a deadline of Dec 26 to remove all their structures and barricades and themselves. We will see what happens.
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radio says the deadline to get off the mauna for the protestors is 12/26, or they'll get arrested
why didn't they give the deadline from day 1? if this was the end game all along, could've saved a bunch of money and drama. :grrr:
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This was our Amazon HQ opportunity. We don't want it. We also could be like Silicone Valley but we don't want it. We want regression.
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Well it is going to be an interesting next 7 days up on the mauna. LEOs from all agencies are leaving today and the protecters have been given a deadline of Dec 26 to remove all their structures and barricades and themselves. We will see what happens.
If waiting for Ineffective Ige to do something, you might get your CCW permit first....
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This was our Amazon HQ opportunity. We don't want it. We also could be like Silicone Valley but we don't want it. We want regression.
#distressed
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there's a hypothesis that because of inaction of the State to uphold the law we are seeing an increase in crimes because of this....
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there's a hypothesis that because of inaction of the State to uphold the law we are seeing an increase in crimes because of this....
According to Susan B, it is all those ghost guns you guys are building that is the problem.
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According to Susan B, it is all those ghost guns you guys are building that is the problem.
you mean us fascist goons? Nope I got my house blessed so there is no ghost building guns here....
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All of my guns are "ghost guns."
Someone wants to be a ghost, I'm your huckleberry. :geekdanc:
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Protesters have done nothing as far as dismantling their camp and barricades and today is the deadline. I guess we will see whether or not our Governor has the balls to enforce his deadline.
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Protesters have done nothing as far as dismantling their camp and barricades and today is the deadline. I guess we will see whether or not our Governor has the balls to enforce his deadline.
The news last night said the Kupuna were deciding if they would remove their tents. They said they don't believe law enforcement will do their job and remove their property today.
That's the entire problem. When gov't officials are weak and refuse to enforce the laws, the public will devolve into anarchy and ignore the laws. Without enforcement, the laws don't matter. Might as well not have laws in the first place.
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The news last night said the Kupuna were deciding if they would remove their tents. They said they don't believe law enforcement will do their job and remove their property today.
That's the entire problem. When gov't officials are weak and refuse to enforce the laws, the public will devolve into anarchy and ignore the laws. Without enforcement, the laws don't matter. Might as well not have laws in the first place.
Population wise this is a small island. Many cops and county workers here are related in someway
shape or form to the "Kupuna". The only way to clean it up is send cops from other counties.
Stand down our HPD and send in Oahu HPD, they are more used to forceful elimination of,
and violating people, per government orders.
You may also want to charge and try the criminals in Oahu also.
Local judges and prosecutors don't seem to want to follow through.
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https://www.kitv.com/story/41544339/kiai-questioned-viewers-send-in-photos-of-what-appears-to-be-trash-on-mauna-kea (https://www.kitv.com/story/41544339/kiai-questioned-viewers-send-in-photos-of-what-appears-to-be-trash-on-mauna-kea)
too distressed to clean up after themselves...
(https://kitv.images.worldnow.com/images/19089284_G.jpg?auto=webp&disable=upscale&height=480&fit=bounds&lastEditedDate=1578622388000)
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https://www.kitv.com/story/41544339/kiai-questioned-viewers-send-in-photos-of-what-appears-to-be-trash-on-mauna-kea (https://www.kitv.com/story/41544339/kiai-questioned-viewers-send-in-photos-of-what-appears-to-be-trash-on-mauna-kea)
(https://kitv.images.worldnow.com/images/19089284_G.jpg?auto=webp&disable=upscale&height=480&fit=bounds&lastEditedDate=1578622388000)
that's not malama-ing the aina
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Population wise this is a small island. Many cops and county workers here are related in someway
shape or form to the "Kupuna". The only way to clean it up is send cops from other counties.
Stand down our HPD and send in Oahu HPD, they are more used to forceful elimination of,
and violating people, per government orders.
You may also want to charge and try the criminals in Oahu also.
Local judges and prosecutors don't seem to want to follow through.
I get it. If local law enforcement does not want to carry out the laws, bring in outsiders. This logic is sound.
Based on your logic then, Virginia's governor should bring in law enforcement from other areas from Virginia or call out the National Guard to enforce the RIDICULOUS gun laws in those counties that proclaimed themselves as gun sanctuaries, whose local law enforcement refuse to carry out the new gun laws of the state.
Do you agree?
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that's not malama-ing the aina
they were oppressed
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I get it. If local law enforcement does not want to carry out the laws, bring in outsiders. This logic is sound.
Based on your logic then, Virginia's governor should bring in law enforcement from other areas from Virginia or call out the National Guard to enforce the RIDICULOUS gun laws in those counties that proclaimed themselves as gun sanctuaries, whose local law enforcement refuse to carry out the new gun laws of the state.
Do you agree?
Right. Because illegally blocking the roads to stop a legitimate construction project is exactly the same as refusing to obey NEWLY-PASSED LEGISLATION that unconstitutionally takes away gun rights.
There's a difference between blocking a new telescope after many have already been constructed in the same location, and refusing to follow new laws that infringe on a constitutionally protected civil right.
There's no constitutional right to block public roads just to draw attention to your protests.
Breaking the law by blocking roads impacts everyone using the road.
Breaking the law by refusing to comply with new gun registration or surrender laws impacts no one.
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Right. Because illegally blocking the roads to stop a legitimate construction project is exactly the same as refusing to obey NEWLY-PASSED LEGISLATION that unconstitutionally takes away gun rights.
There's a difference between blocking a new telescope after many have already been constructed in the same location, and refusing to follow new laws that infringe on a constitutionally protected civil right.
There's no constitutional right to block public roads just to draw attention to your protests.
Breaking the law by blocking roads impacts everyone using the road.
Breaking the law by refusing to comply with new gun registration or surrender laws impacts no one.
For me, breaking the law is breaking the law, as the Mauna Kea protestors are doing, which they know they have to suffer the consequences of their actions.
Even if it appears to be infringing on the Second Amendment, breaking Virginia's newly past gun control laws is still a crime and violators need to be arrested. Those arrested can appeal, of course, in due process, but must still be arrested for the time being.
Unlike your interpretation, I do not slide the scale here.
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I get it. If local law enforcement does not want to carry out the laws, bring in outsiders. This logic is sound.
Based on your logic then, Virginia's governor should bring in law enforcement from other areas from Virginia or call out the National Guard to enforce the RIDICULOUS gun laws in those counties that proclaimed themselves as gun sanctuaries, whose local law enforcement refuse to carry out the new gun laws of the state.
Do you agree?
I guess you confuse intrastate with interstate.
I don't agree.
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I guess you confuse intrastate with interstate.
I don't agree.
Bottom Line: As you are a staunch critic of the protestors on Mauna Kea, who you said are breaking the law; I agree, they are breaking the law and should be arrested. There are no exceptions. Law is the law; right?
Hence, you must agree that those who break Virginia's latest gun control laws must be arrested. No exceptions too. Right?
Or are you going to create excuses why violators of Virginia's gun control laws should only follow laws that they like and should not be brought to justice?
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https://www.kitv.com/story/41544339/kiai-questioned-viewers-send-in-photos-of-what-appears-to-be-trash-on-mauna-kea (https://www.kitv.com/story/41544339/kiai-questioned-viewers-send-in-photos-of-what-appears-to-be-trash-on-mauna-kea)
too distressed to clean up after themselves...
(https://kitv.images.worldnow.com/images/19089284_G.jpg?auto=webp&disable=upscale&height=480&fit=bounds&lastEditedDate=1578622388000)
I'm very familiar with that area and wonder why they were camping over by the Mauna Loa access road. I'd also like to know who paved it?
Mauna Loa access road is a road nobody wants to claim. The State says it belongs to the county and the county says it is a state road.
It used to be in very bad shape. It is an interesting drive.
The rest of the stuff does look like a Honolulu homeless dump. Hard to check in and go hunting
with all those trespassers hanging out.
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Bottom Line: As you are a staunch critic of the protestors on Mauna Kea, who you said are breaking the law; I agree, they are breaking the law and should be arrested. There are no exceptions. Law is the law; right?
Hence, you must agree that those who break Virginia's latest gun control laws must be arrested. No exceptions too. Right?
Or are you going to create excuses why violators of Virginia's gun control laws should only follow laws that they like and should not be brought to justice?
Like ALL the people on this site I never violate any Constitutional Federal, state, or local laws.
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This long stretch of very windy, rainy and very cold weather would have chased almost all of them out if they had not moved.
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One has not only a legal, but a moral responsibility to obey just laws.
Conversely, one has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws.
– Martin Luther King, Jr.
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Last I heard, the cops said they were going home for Christmas and told the protesters not to be there on the 26th. What happened then?
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Last I heard, the cops said they were going home for Christmas and told the protesters not to be there on the 26th. What happened then?
Lyin' Harry showed up on the 26th with county (taxpayer paid) workers and truck loads full of gravel and spent three days helping the racists move their tents onto sacred aina new gravel pads (no doubt approved by some holy hawaiian who has direct communication with the gods) for their various structures. Our tax dollars at work. Along with the promise that no machinery or workers for the new site would be allowed up the mountain until at least March (when, I suspect, the county and state will allow the racists to move their structures back onto to public roadway)..
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The other day there was a cleanup Mauna Kea Day where volunteers removed weeds and replaced them with native plants that normally grow up there.
Is it just me or did anyone else see the news and noticed the volunteers were all Asians and Caucasians? Or did the news media intentionally not show
any Hawaiian looking people? I expected to see hundreds of the protectors of the mauna there. You know, to care for da aina.
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The other day there was a cleanup Mauna Kea Day where volunteers removed weeds and replaced them with native plants that normally grow up there.
Is it just me or did anyone else see the news and noticed the volunteers were all Asians and Caucasians? Or did the news media intentionally not show
any Hawaiian looking people? I expected to see hundreds of the protectors of the mauna there. You know, to care for da aina.
they were commoners. No pay attention to dem