Post by: Brystont1 on August 06, 2021, 01:58:34 PM
I don’t believe in vaccine mandates but aside from that it seems most hospitalizations are unvaccinated. Also seems like the spikes are occurring in areas with low vaccination rates. Seems like the vaccines are working.
At first I was against this vaccine because I figured I’m not in a high risk category so why would I take the jab for fear of long term side effects.
For those of you not vaccinated what’s your risk factors? And for those who are vaccinated please feel free to make your case.
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 06, 2021, 02:07:57 PM
Gen 1 cars usually have issues that need to be worked out. Same with gen 1 guns and many other gen 1 stuff. So can this apply to the vaxxx?
The media and gov lied to the people for 4 years. Russia, Ukraine, Hunter, Trump rape allegations, Flynn, Vindham, etc...So for arguments sake, let's say they are 100% correct this time. Why should anyone believe them?
Other countries have their stats out and most of their positives and hospitalized are vaxxed. What makes the US different?
But in the end it should be a personal, not forced choice. And a choice made with all the information available, not censored by 1 side.
Post by: WTF?Shane on August 06, 2021, 02:24:03 PM
Post by: WTF?Shane on August 06, 2021, 02:25:45 PM
Post by: Brystont1 on August 06, 2021, 02:27:44 PM
Here is my $0.02.
Gen 1 cars usually have issues that need to be worked out. Same with gen 1 guns and many other gen 1 stuff. So can this apply to the vaxxx?
The media and gov lied to the people for 4 years. Russia, Ukraine, Hunter, Trump rape allegations, Flynn, Vindham, etc...So for arguments sake, let's say they are 100% correct this time. Why should anyone believe them?
Other countries have their stats out and most of their positives and hospitalized are vaxxed. What makes the US different?
But in the end it should be a personal, not forced choice. And a choice made with all the information available, not censored by 1 side.
I think you are definitely right about the media lies and I forgot to include that in my risk factors. That is one of my biggest reasons for not getting it so far. I don’t believe in the government (Fauci) lying for the “greater good” as some on here have stated. If they were lying then who’s to say they’re not still lying for an unknown “greater good”.
As I understand it this “vaccine” technology has been out for years. Not really a Gen 1 type of situation from my limited research.
I need to look up the stats on those other countries. One of my coworkers has a gf who’s a nurse and she’s saying 90+% hospitalization are unvaccinated. However I remember them doing the same thing earlier in the pandemic when referencing “hospitalizations” they were including people who were hospitalized for other reasons but so happened to test positive for COVID in hospital and they classified it as a “COVID hospitalization”.
Post by: Brystont1 on August 06, 2021, 02:32:03 PM
If it comes to, might have to take it to work (company policy). Shitty, but rather be employed to pay bills.
Me too. However I do think the emotion behind “mandates” are really overstated. For example everyone was up in arms about IGE mandating vaccines for state workers. Lots of misinformation about firing those who won’t or aren’t vaccinated. Most will have exemptions and in Ige’s case they’ll just have to test weekly it sucks but atleast it’s another option.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on August 06, 2021, 02:32:30 PM
Posting your rationalizations and justifications online isn't going to help. I'm in a higher-risk group due to age, weight and chronic health issues.
Having said that, I opted to postpone the vaccine. I'm not working outside the home, and I don't go out but once or twice a week. I think my immune system is very healthy, too.
In fact, I was down with the flu in late Jan 2020 -- the first time I've had it that bad in decades -- right after having a yard sale with lots of people dropping in. I've not been tested, but as crappy as I felt, and as long as it lasted, I'm suspecting I may have been an early case of COVID. If so, then the immunity should still be present.
My point is not that you should follow my thought process to decide for yourself. It's that everyone has a different set or subset of these types of factors to consider. Only a comprehensive analysis of YOUR factors should be considered by you and your doctor before deciding on the vaccine.
I'm taking one risk while avoiding a few other risks, both known and unknown. That's my choice, and nobody else is having their "right to not get COVID" infringed upon.
Given the inconsistencies, flip-flops and lies coming out of the administration, Fauci and the media, they are the LAST people I intend to trust when making my decision.
"I trust the government" shows a lack of brains and understanding of not only history, but the current pack of lies being peddled -- both their intentional lies and those born from their sheer incompetence.
So, you do you. If you're too lazy to do actual research and discuss it with your doctor, then you'll be entrusting your very life to people you'll never meet.
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 06, 2021, 02:53:20 PM
The tech has been around for decades, but not combined with todays lifestyle and other techs. Does it react diff to 5g waves, artificial coloring, other vaxxes, ethanol fuel emissions, steroids? No one knows yet.
I think you are definitely right about the media lies and I forgot to include that in my risk factors. That is one of my biggest reasons for not getting it so far. I don’t believe in the government (Fauci) lying for the “greater good” as some on here have stated. If they were lying then who’s to say they’re not still lying for an unknown “greater good”.
As I understand it this “vaccine” technology has been out for years. Not really a Gen 1 type of situation from my limited research.
I need to look up the stats on those other countries. One of my coworkers has a gf who’s a nurse and she’s saying 90+% hospitalization are unvaccinated. However I remember them doing the same thing earlier in the pandemic when referencing “hospitalizations” they were including people who were hospitalized for other reasons but so happened to test positive for COVID in hospital and they classified it as a “COVID hospitalization”.
I do find it odd how the US with its big vaxx % varies. Maybe other countries took it earlier and its now wearing off. So are u willing to get jabbed every 6 months?
So the question is, do you trust the gov and their agencies? But to be fair, i would trust pfizer with my boto.
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Post by: Flapp_Jackson on August 06, 2021, 03:09:33 PM
The tech has been around for decades, but not combined with todays lifestyle and other techs. Does it react diff to 5g waves, artificial coloring, other vaxxes, ethanol fuel emissions, steroids? No one knows yet.
I do find it odd how the US with its big vaxx % varies. Maybe other countries took it earlier and its now wearing off. So are u willing to get jabbed every 6 months?
So the question is, do you trust the gov and their agencies? But to be fair, i would trust pfizer with my boto.
The US has had mRNA vaccines for decades, but none (including the COVID vaccines) have been approved for routine use by the FDA.
That alone is enough to at least ask the question, "Why not?"
Post by: hvybarrels on August 06, 2021, 03:13:01 PM
If that is not convincing enough and the social pressure of a bunch of terrified sheep is too strong for you to resist then I wish you the best of luck, because you are going to need it.
Post by: omnigun on August 06, 2021, 03:33:03 PM
The US has had mRNA vaccines for decades, but none (including the COVID vaccines) have been approved for routine use by the FDA.
That alone is enough to at least ask the question, "Why not?"
There is a non mRNA version of the vaccine for those who are worried about that. The question about "Why not" is simply its a newer technology.
Post by: omnigun on August 06, 2021, 03:41:33 PM
I view the vaccine as a way to lessen my risk even a 0.01% less chance of death or adverse effects I'll happily take. I also view it as my patriotic duty to help my great country in any way I can (within reason). By getting vaccinated this lessens the chance of infection and spread. With enough people the USA can overcome this virus and return back to life and on the world stage stronger than ever. Much like a war, its everyone's duty to ensure this republics survival and prosperity. My parents and grandparents are at higher risk and if I can decrease that by any amount I'll do it for them, family is very important to me.
We all know about my trust in science and the government. So I was willing to listen. Scientists to me are one of the highest tiers of information accuracy for me followed by the government. A decent peer reviewed study is desired. Media is somewhere towards the middle, they can be right and wrong and its harder to tell. Religion is bottom tier.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on August 06, 2021, 03:41:44 PM
There is a non mRNA version of the vaccine for those who are worried about that. The question about "Why not" is simply its a newer technology.
Wrong.
"Has had mRNA vaccines for decades" is not equivalent to "newer technology." It's only "new" in that it's not been used before. It's existence is anything but new.
We've have malaria drugs for decades -- in use and safely administered -- but the Dems cried it was an untested and risky drug to use, even though they showed promise in preventing and treating COVID. mRNA is the opposite (not approved, not used, not fully tested), but "new technology" is fine now because you trust the government.
See the contradictions?
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on August 06, 2021, 03:42:21 PM
Not trying to start an argument but here is my 0.02.
I view the vaccine as a way to lessen my risk even a 0.01% less chance of death or adverse effects I'll happily take. I also view it as my patriotic duty to help my great country in any way I can (within reason). By getting vaccinated this lessens the chance of infection and spread. With enough people the USA can overcome this virus and return back to life and on the world stage stronger than ever. Much like a War, its everyone's duty to ensure this Republics survival and prosperity. And my parents and grandparents are at higher risk and if I can decrease that by any amount I'll do it for them, family is very important to me.
We all know about my trust in science and the government. So I was willing to listen. Scientists to me are one of the highest tiers of information accuracy for me followed by the government. A decent peer reviewed study is desired. Media is somewhere towards the middle, they can be right and wrong and its harder to tell. Religion is bottom tier.
Lather
Rinse
Repeat
Try posting something you haven't said 100 times already.
Post by: omnigun on August 06, 2021, 03:45:49 PM
Wrong.
"Has had mRNA vaccines for decades" is not equivalent to "newer technology." It's only "new" in that it's not been used before. It's existence is anything but new.
We've have malaria drugs for decades -- in use and safely administered -- but the Dems cried it was an untested and risky drug to use, even though they showed promise in preventing and treating COVID. mRNA is the opposite (not approved, not used, not fully tested), but "new technology" is fine now because you trust the government.
See the contradictions?
It was invented after the "other" method of vaccination. So it is newer. Like you said its less tested but that does not mean its less safe. I am not as familiar on the subject of malaria drugs, but I would trust what the scientists recommended. If they recommended it to me now, I'll get it.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on August 06, 2021, 03:52:11 PM
It was invented after the "other" method of vaccination. So it is newer. Like you said its less tested but that does not mean its less safe. I am not as familiar on the subject of malaria drugs, but I would trust what the scientists recommended. If they recommended it to me now, I'll get it.
Old goal post ==> "new technology"
New goal post ==> "newer [than the "other" method of vaccination]"
#StillATroll
#NothingHasChanged
#GoalPostMoved
Post by: macsak on August 06, 2021, 04:04:30 PM
Not trying to start an argument but here is my 0.02.
I view the vaccine as a way to lessen my risk even a 0.01% less chance of death or adverse effects I'll happily take. I also view it as my patriotic duty to help my great country in any way I can (within reason). By getting vaccinated this lessens the chance of infection and spread. With enough people the USA can overcome this virus and return back to life and on the world stage stronger than ever. Much like a war, its everyone's duty to ensure this republics survival and prosperity. My parents and grandparents are at higher risk and if I can decrease that by any amount I'll do it for them, family is very important to me.
We all know about my trust in science and the government. So I was willing to listen. Scientists to me are one of the highest tiers of information accuracy for me followed by the government. A decent peer reviewed study is desired. Media is somewhere towards the middle, they can be right and wrong and its harder to tell. Religion is bottom tier.
please show me the peer reviewed study where they did a long term trial of vaccinated vs unvaccinated to compare "cases"/hospitalization/ICU/death and side effects...
Post by: macsak on August 06, 2021, 04:07:57 PM
It was invented after the "other" method of vaccination. So it is newer. Like you said its less tested but that does not mean its less safe. I am not as familiar on the subject of malaria drugs, but I would trust what the scientists recommended. If they recommended it to me now, I'll get it.
you are not familiar with anti-malarial drugs and anti-parasite drugs because you are too closed minded to look into HCQ and ivermectin
just like you refuse to research the definition of "cases" before 2020, the cycle threshold of PCR testing, the definition of herd immunity before summer 2020, and numerous other topics...
Post by: macsak on August 06, 2021, 04:10:28 PM
There is a non mRNA version of the vaccine for those who are worried about that. The question about "Why not" is simply its a newer technology.
it is NOT a newer technology
it has been studied and theorized for decades
and was never used because the safety and efficacy profiles were terrible
the only thing that is "newer" is that this one may work...
Post by: Glasser on August 06, 2021, 08:43:24 PM
Literally the CDCs ONE & ONLY JOB is to track those numbers and she flat out lied about their information. And when can verify how big a lie it was in less than 3 clicks on their OWN website you have to start asking yourself what is actually motivating these people? It isnt public safety.
Post by: QUIETShooter on August 06, 2021, 10:35:47 PM
what is actually motivating these people? It isnt public safety.
My guess is money. Big money. Just like multi-level marketing, milk the mama cow before the people wise up.
Post by: hvybarrels on August 06, 2021, 11:20:55 PM
https://twitter.com/RanIsraeli/status/1423322271503028228
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on August 06, 2021, 11:23:16 PM
My guess is money. Big money. Just like multi-level marketing, milk the mama cow before the people wise up.
It's not just one motive.
Control
Public Obediance
Wealth
Power
Political Party Loyalty
Ideological Beliefs
Blind Trust in "Science" -- even though there's no transparency
Fear
etc...
Post by: macsak on August 07, 2021, 05:58:14 AM
bad news...
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on August 07, 2021, 12:57:27 PM
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/05/novavax-covid-vaccine-fda-emergency-use-submission-delayed-to-q4.html
bad news...
Looks like Novavax is rolling out the doses to countries that aren't as big on civil litigation compared to the US...
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 07, 2021, 01:24:29 PM
Looks like Novavax is rolling out the doses to countries that aren't as big on civil litigation compared to the US...Wouldnt they be immune in the US anyways?
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Post by: Flapp_Jackson on August 07, 2021, 01:40:20 PM
Wouldnt they be immune in the US anyways?
That's not been decided in a court of law yet.
Immunity normally has limitations, such as negligence and intentional disregard for safety.
Something tells me a lot of corners were cut just to get to the EUA.
We shall see.
Post by: omnigun on August 07, 2021, 01:56:28 PM
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/05/novavax-covid-vaccine-fda-emergency-use-submission-delayed-to-q4.html
bad news...
Unfortunate, I was looking forward to my 3rd jab. Might have to wait for the pfizer.
Post by: hvybarrels on August 07, 2021, 02:57:44 PM
Post by: macsak on August 08, 2021, 10:40:39 AM
Unfortunate, I was looking forward to my 3rd jab. Might have to wait for the pfizer.
not elderly, not high risk, avoids crowds/stores, already double vaxxed, works from home?, probably always masked, even if distanced in office
why would you need a 3rd "jab" if the vaxx is safe and effective?
Post by: omnigun on August 08, 2021, 12:47:46 PM
not elderly, not high risk, avoids crowds/stores, already double vaxxed, works from home?, probably always masked, even if distanced in office
why would you need a 3rd "jab" if the vaxx is safe and effective?
Cause why not? Even a 0.1% less chance to die or suffer effects I'll take. I know the vaccine effects are far less than covid so its a no brainer.
Also I don't work from home.
Post by: ren on August 08, 2021, 12:56:13 PM
Post by: macsak on August 08, 2021, 01:01:13 PM
Cause why not? Even a 0.1% less chance to die or suffer effects I'll take. I know the vaccine effects are far less than covid so its a no brainer.
Also I don't work from home.
please show me a study where the third dose effects are far less than covid...
Post by: omnigun on August 08, 2021, 01:08:51 PM
please show me a study where the third dose effects are far less than covid...
There is no study, I am purely going off of the 1st and 2nd doses. Unless more info is put out disproving my theory. Though I have not looked into the current test phase they are doing on the 3rd dose.
Post by: hvybarrels on August 08, 2021, 01:28:26 PM
Post by: ren on August 08, 2021, 01:29:14 PM
https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-healthy-eating/expert-answers/vitamin-c/faq-20058030 (https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-healthy-eating/expert-answers/vitamin-c/faq-20058030)
mo 'Tussin!!!!
Post by: macsak on August 08, 2021, 01:45:15 PM
There is no study, I am purely going off of the 1st and 2nd doses. Unless more info is put out disproving my theory. Though I have not looked into the current test phase they are doing on the 3rd dose.
aka "
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on August 08, 2021, 01:49:53 PM
Post by: ren on August 08, 2021, 02:07:27 PM
aka "making shit up" "moving goalposts"
same MO
Post by: Glasser on August 08, 2021, 02:57:15 PM
keep rolling up that sleeve dummy
(https://editions.lib.umn.edu/electionacademy/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2013/08/hash-mark.jpg)
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 08, 2021, 05:11:57 PM
aka "Business was slow last week. Had to cancel the 4th F15 order. Now its picking up and I placed it again. Thanks omni.making shit up" "moving goalposts"
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Post by: omnigun on August 08, 2021, 05:34:46 PM
I am pretty pumped to know that the people who really NEED to be mass sterilized by the government are more than happy to stand in line for it like its a newest iPhone.
keep rolling up that sleeve dummy
(https://editions.lib.umn.edu/electionacademy/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2013/08/hash-mark.jpg)
Please stop posting false information. Apparently Mac doesn't try and "factcheck" you. But I still will. Please show me the evidence of your theory of the vaccine and preventing reproduction. Last time I checked a good percentage of many counties are vaxxed and babies are still being created.
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 08, 2021, 05:52:41 PM
Please stop posting false information. Apparently Mac doesn't try and "factcheck" you. But I still will. Please show me the evidence of your theory of the vaccine and preventing reproduction. Last time I checked a good percentage of many counties are vaxxed and babies are still being created.Does created =born?
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Post by: drck1000 on August 08, 2021, 06:06:52 PM
Does created =born?Parrots false but can’t provide proof to own statements. . .
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You might be able to upgrade to an F35.
Post by: omnigun on August 08, 2021, 09:16:54 PM
https://news.yahoo.com/israeli-survey-finds-3rd-pfizer-205456820.html
Post by: omnigun on August 08, 2021, 09:17:16 PM
Does created =born?
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yes
Post by: Glasser on August 08, 2021, 09:20:46 PM
Internal Health Ministry data shows that 14 Israelis have been infected with COVID-19 a week after receiving a booster shot, Channel 12 news reports.
The network says 11 of those infected are over the age of 60 — two of whom have now been hospitalized — while the other three got their third dose because they are immunocompromised.
If confirmed in larger samples, the figures could cast doubt on the effectiveness of the booster shot, which Israel has started administering before major health bodies around the world have approved it.
Post by: drck1000 on August 08, 2021, 09:25:46 PM
Quote
Eighty-eight percent of participants in the survey said that in the days after receiving the third shot, they felt "similar or better" to how they felt after the second shot.That article was meant to prove….?
SNIP
"Although we do not yet have long-term research on the efficacy and safety of the third booster dose, for the personal risk management of any person aged 60 plus, these findings continue to point to the benefit of immunization now, along with careful behavior among adults and avoiding gathering in closed spaces," Balicer said.
Post by: hvybarrels on August 08, 2021, 09:28:23 PM
https://youtu.be/XNtTEibFvlQ?t=78
Post by: macsak on August 08, 2021, 09:29:38 PM
FYI Mac
https://news.yahoo.com/israeli-survey-finds-3rd-pfizer-205456820.html
lol
it's all about the "feels" with you
try read next time, bruh...
Post by: macsak on August 08, 2021, 09:31:14 PM
FYI Mac
https://news.yahoo.com/israeli-survey-finds-3rd-pfizer-205456820.html
i love how you put the effort in to "try" and prove the point, yet in other cases when called out you don't other than moving the goalpost
still not wrong...
Post by: drck1000 on August 08, 2021, 09:33:52 PM
lolTL(prob)DR
it's all about the "feels" with you
try read next time, bruh...
Intended to be a mic drop, but was more mic bobble…
Post by: omnigun on August 08, 2021, 10:18:04 PM
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 08, 2021, 10:54:01 PM
yesThe regular folk allowed to use covid vaxxes around March. Today is august. Takes 5 months for a child to be born?
First responders began about January. So 7 month pregnancy for even smaller sample size (female police, fire, emt, nurses, doctors).
Try again.
Goalpost about to be moved.
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Post by: Flapp_Jackson on August 08, 2021, 11:20:26 PM
The regular folk allowed to use covid vaxxes around March. Today is august. Takes 5 months for a child to be born?
First responders began about January. So 7 month pregnancy for even smaller sample size (female police, fire, emt, nurses, doctors).
Try again.
Goalpost about to be moved.
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#VaxxInitiatedAbortion
same as
#LongtermInfertility
Post by: omnigun on August 09, 2021, 06:17:39 AM
The regular folk allowed to use covid vaxxes around March. Today is august. Takes 5 months for a child to be born?
First responders began about January. So 7 month pregnancy for even smaller sample size (female police, fire, emt, nurses, doctors).
Try again.
Goalpost about to be moved.
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Testing started earlier than that. If findings were found it would be reported. No goal posts moved.
The whole point of them trials was to find out long term effects.
Post by: macsak on August 09, 2021, 07:28:07 AM
Not really just posting something I found.
how it started- "FYI mac"
how it went- "something i found"
how it started- goalpost
how it went- moved
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 09, 2021, 07:30:19 AM
Testing started earlier than that. If findings were found it would be reported. No goal posts moved.How many? 50? 200? 20,000?
The whole point of them trials was to find out long term effects.
Provide a rough estimate. I wont hold u to it if youre wrong. And dont expect u to google. Use what u can remember.
Idk if hvybrls is right or wrong. I never looked into it. But using critical thinking, 1 can deduct that its too early to know. And im not gonna gamble with mrs.cmo's ability to have a child.
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Post by: drck1000 on August 09, 2021, 07:32:00 AM
How many? 50? 200? 20,000?He won't know. You'll have to do your research to "prove" him wrong. . .
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Post by: changemyoil66 on August 09, 2021, 07:55:15 AM
So again, no long term stats yet.
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Post by: hvybarrels on August 09, 2021, 08:34:20 AM
How many? 50? 200? 20,000?
Provide a rough estimate. I wont hold u to it if youre wrong. And dont expect u to google. Use what u can remember.
Idk if hvybrls is right or wrong. I never looked into it. But using critical thinking, 1 can deduct that its too early to know. And im not gonna gamble with mrs.cmo's ability to have a child.
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I hope I am wrong, but if true we should start to see a difference of infection rates in red vs blue states in the next few weeks. Of course the numbers will be fudged and expect every dirty trick in the book (per usual), but half or more of the country absolutely refuses to take the clot shots so at some point it will be glaringly obvious.
Post by: Glasser on August 09, 2021, 08:41:00 AM
4got to add in, what about birth defects? Some may not be known until later, like autism.
So again, no long term stats yet.
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https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/health/swine-flu-vaccine-side-effects-so-bad-that-children-were-like-schizophrenics-37275895.html
Swine-flu vaccine side-effects so bad 'that children were like schizophrenics'
Children who developed narcolepsy after being given the swine flu vaccine were affected by such serious sleep-disorder related conditions that some were initially thought to be suffering from schizophrenia.
The revelation came as the solicitors acting for two-thirds of those now suing the State over having received the controversial vaccine Pandemrix warned that a redress scheme was simply not enough and that full accountability was required for what happened.
In severe cases, sufferers can fall asleep at any time - when they are eating, sitting watching TV or even while working in a school classroom.
Many suffer from cataplexy - loss of muscle tone - causing them to collapse like a puppet when experiencing extreme emotions. They also suffer from sleep paralysis, rendering them unable to move while they experience hallucinations.
In many cases, the severity of these dreams and nightmares, and their understandable consequences for young people, led doctors to suspect a form of schizophrenia before narcolepsy was finally diagnosed.
Solicitors Michael Boylan and Gillian O'Connor warned that those patients who developed narcolepsy from Pandemrix now suffered from a life-long condition.
Mr Boylan said what sufferers had endured was simply beyond belief.
"There is no cure. This is something that these people, many of whom are children, are going to have to live with and cope with for the rest of their lives," he said.
Post by: hvybarrels on August 09, 2021, 08:41:46 AM
I stand in awe of the vast stupidity of our elites
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 09, 2021, 08:47:33 AM
I hope I am wrong, but if true we should start to see a difference of infection rates in red vs blue states in the next few weeks. Of course the numbers will be fudged and expect every dirty trick in the book (per usual), but half or more of the country absolutely refuses to take the clot shots so at some point it will be glaringly obvious.
Like how they limited the adverse reactions for the FDA approvals? Trust the gov.
I hope you're wrong too. But that is why we're on the cautious side. Anything the mother takes might transfer into the fetus. So getting a new vaxx doesn't help the odds of something going wrong, but increases it. People argue, that getting CV may be worst, but that means 1 would have to catch it 1st.
Even having a child after age 36 for a woman, increases the chance of downs by 30%. And that's without any other factors besides just age.
In my personal life, I know lots of DNC supporters who are also anti CV vaxx. And lots of GOP supporters who are pro CV vaxx. So to me, it doesn't look like a red/blue thing. But then we go into the red/blue states who push the vaxx, that's a different story.
Post by: hvybarrels on August 09, 2021, 08:57:16 AM
So to me, it doesn't look like a red/blue thing. But then we go into the red/blue states who push the vaxx, that's a different story.
You are right, and I made that distinction for brevity. Places like Florida with anti-mandate laws should sick out like a sore thumb vs high vax sheep states.
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 09, 2021, 09:02:00 AM
You are right, and I made that distinction for brevity. Places like Florida with anti-mandate laws should sick out like a sore thumb vs high vax sheep states.
Omni asked why Mac doesn't jump all over your post. And even I don't. Specifically for your preggers 1, IDK enough about it to comment. That's why I never mentioned much. Then asked omni to list what he remembers since he sounded so sure that you were wrong.
Then for your red/blue post, I didn't look up any stats, but I posted what I personally observed and was specific to mention my observations. I could also be wrong.
Plus, you don't move goal post.
Post by: hvybarrels on August 09, 2021, 09:17:29 AM
Omni asked why Mac doesn't jump all over your post. And even I don't. Specifically for your preggers 1, IDK enough about it to comment. That's why I never mentioned much. Then asked omni to list what he remembers since he sounded so sure that you were wrong.
Then for your red/blue post, I didn't look up any stats, but I posted what I personally observed and was specific to mention my observations. I could also be wrong.
Plus, you don't move goal post.
That is funny I cannot see the response you mentioned. Mahalo to whoever saved me the trouble!
My experience is that people who claim to be in sole possession of the infallible truth are usually the most delusional.
It is something I try to watch out for especially when I feel strongly about something
Post by: aieahound on August 09, 2021, 10:41:11 AM
She learned about and researched mRNA vaccines and she took it.
Nope, she doesn’t have the answer but she go we go. My whole immediate family took it.
My brother and sister still won’t.
Post by: drck1000 on August 09, 2021, 10:50:39 AM
My daughter is entering Pharmacy School and did all the biochem and biology classes.My best friend's wife (she's a really close friend as well) is PhD in that stuff. Her research/focus is elsewhere, but even she had some concerns with mNRA. But, trust in "folks that she knows" level has her advocating for the Pfizer, Moderna, etc. Her husband, my buddy, got Moderna. I mean can only make decisions with the information you have. That said, that's their decision and made on what they feel is best for them. . . Same for you.
She learned about and researched mRNA vaccines and she took it.
Nope, she doesn’t have the answer but she go we go. My whole immediate family took it.
My brother and sister still won’t.
Post by: hvybarrels on August 09, 2021, 10:55:21 AM
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 09, 2021, 11:24:19 AM
My biological family thinks I am a selfish a-hole conspiracy nut, but they voted for a racist vegetable sex offender so I take it with a grain of salt
My mom worries, but moms will mom.
Dad worries, but not as much. He trust my judgement with all available info that I have. Least to say that he never heard about much up it. Like Israel/UK stats, 3rd Pfizer shot, Taiwan/Japan/Korea vaxx rate. Pretty much only what he hears on CNN.
Post by: drck1000 on August 09, 2021, 11:37:59 AM
My biological family thinks I am a selfish a-hole conspiracy nut, but they voted for a racist vegetable sex offender so I take it with a grain of saltSo you say you're not a. . . (j/k)
I admit I'm not up to speed with anti-vax stuff in general, even prior to COVID. To force stuff like vaccines on folks is a huge deal, and one where I can't believe that folks are so quick to decide what is best for everyone. With the media these days, everyone is an expert. That applies to both sides.
My mom worries, but moms will mom."thankfully" my parents aren't around to see this. I put that in quotes as in I wish they were around, but my dad's health was failing well before COVID, so thankful in a way that he passed before all this craziness. And he passed a couple of years prior to it hitting. He was on dialysis and I've followed up with a few folks who were in the same unit (I work with one of them) and it's a true $hit show. I mean it wasn't running all that well prior to COVID, but things went absolutely ::) when COVID hit.
Dad worries, but not as much. He trust my judgement with all available info that I have. Least to say that he never heard about much up it. Like Israel/UK stats, 3rd Pfizer shot, Taiwan/Japan/Korea vaxx rate. Pretty much only what he hears on CNN.
Post by: omnigun on August 09, 2021, 11:47:58 AM
How many? 50? 200? 20,000?
Provide a rough estimate. I wont hold u to it if youre wrong. And dont expect u to google. Use what u can remember.
Idk if hvybrls is right or wrong. I never looked into it. But using critical thinking, 1 can deduct that its too early to know. And im not gonna gamble with mrs.cmo's ability to have a child.
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I remember 40k for one of the trials. Might be more. Cause there was more than one trial.
If we wanted goal post moving I would point out current pregnancies but I chose to leave that out because other than the ability to get pregnant, I am unsure what exactly the conspiracy theorists are focused on.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on August 09, 2021, 01:11:47 PM
Testing started earlier than that. If findings were found it would be reported. No goal posts moved.
The whole point of them trials was to find out long term effects.
Please show where vaccine trials included having participants attempt to get pregnant and impregnate someone after months after being injected.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on August 09, 2021, 01:15:19 PM
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/health/swine-flu-vaccine-side-effects-so-bad-that-children-were-like-schizophrenics-37275895.html
Swine-flu vaccine side-effects so bad 'that children were like schizophrenics'
Children who developed narcolepsy after being given the swine flu vaccine were affected by such serious sleep-disorder related conditions that some were initially thought to be suffering from schizophrenia.
The revelation came as the solicitors acting for two-thirds of those now suing the State over having received the controversial vaccine Pandemrix warned that a redress scheme was simply not enough and that full accountability was required for what happened.
In severe cases, sufferers can fall asleep at any time - when they are eating, sitting watching TV or even while working in a school classroom.
Many suffer from cataplexy - loss of muscle tone - causing them to collapse like a puppet when experiencing extreme emotions. They also suffer from sleep paralysis, rendering them unable to move while they experience hallucinations.
In many cases, the severity of these dreams and nightmares, and their understandable consequences for young people, led doctors to suspect a form of schizophrenia before narcolepsy was finally diagnosed.
Solicitors Michael Boylan and Gillian O'Connor warned that those patients who developed narcolepsy from Pandemrix now suffered from a life-long condition.
Mr Boylan said what sufferers had endured was simply beyond belief.
"There is no cure. This is something that these people, many of whom are children, are going to have to live with and cope with for the rest of their lives," he said.
#FakeNews
#StopPostingLies
#TrustGovernment
#TrustBigPharma
#TestingWouldHaveCaughtThat
#MustBeAnotherCause
EDIT:
After seeing OmniGrub gave my reply a "like", I noticed I left something out that he alone needed:
#Sarcasm
Sarcasm is hard for some.
Post by: aletheuo137 on August 09, 2021, 01:31:06 PM
Please show where vaccine trials included having participants attempt to get pregnant and impregnate someone after months after being injected.Goal post has gotten swoosh away!
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Post by: changemyoil66 on August 09, 2021, 01:33:44 PM
I remember 40k for one of the trials. Might be more. Cause there was more than one trial.
If we wanted goal post moving I would point out current pregnancies but I chose to leave that out because other than the ability to get pregnant, I am unsure what exactly the conspiracy theorists are focused on.
Wrong. Doesn't understand goal post moving.
This is why I asked you did you mean born or the ability to conceive, in not so many words. And you replied born. That is why I replied with the dates when the regular folk were allowed to get vaxxed. Then you replied about the studies. And now are replying that 40,000 people were studied trying to conceive or mid term and babies came out fine. None of this is moving of goal post, but providing more info to the subject.
What you are now doing is trying to discredit what goal post moving is. That is why I stated you were wrong.
I felt that 40K is a lot of pregnant women. So I did 5 mins worth of google. And Pfizer alone began trials for already pregnant women in Feb 2021. 4,000 were chooses. See below link:
https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-commence-global-clinical-trial-evaluate
Moderna is 1000 woman that were already pregnant and began in July 2021
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04958304
FDA regulates preggers and vaxx trials. I didn't read the below fully, so correct if needed:
https://www.fda.gov/news-events/fda-voices/global-regulators-envision-paradigm-shift-toward-inclusion-pregnant-and-breastfeeding-women-clinical
I couldn't find anything dated in 2020 or early 2021 by the first few pages of google. But like I mentioned only took about 5 mins to research. I'm not arguing that your number of 40K is wrong, but just it seemed a little high. Also IDK if the links above are USA only or world wide. So 40K may be possible.
I am going to look into this more because we will be planning for a family soon.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on August 09, 2021, 01:34:49 PM
Goal post has gotten swoosh away!
He pretends to know what clinical trials involve, then ASSUMES they must have included fertility and birth defects, even though no drug maker is going to purposely expose a mother or father to the risks associated with such a "test".
"Ooops! Looks like your little boy was born without a brain. Don't worry, though. He's still qualified to vote Democrat."
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 09, 2021, 01:51:07 PM
even though no drug maker is going to purposely expose a mother or father to the risks associated with such a "test".
The FDA link mentions something like this.
Post by: aletheuo137 on August 09, 2021, 01:51:48 PM
He pretends to know what clinical trials involve, then ASSUMES they must have included fertility and birth defects, even though no drug maker is going to purposely expose a mother or father to the risks associated with such a "test".I guess he'll have to find out the hard way!
"Ooops! Looks like your little boy was born without a brain. Don't worry, though. He's still qualified to vote Democrat."
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Post by: changemyoil66 on August 09, 2021, 01:52:37 PM
#FakeNews
#StopPostingLies
#TrustGovernment
#TrustBigPharma
#TestingWouldHaveCaughtThat
#MustBeAnotherCause
I'm gonna ask my in-laws in Taiwan if they had a swine flu vaxx and any messed up kids after. I mean they do have signs on the train "no pigs allowed". So them using a vaxx isn't that far fetched.
Post by: omnigun on August 09, 2021, 04:21:04 PM
Please show where vaccine trials included having participants attempt to get pregnant and impregnate someone after months after being injected.
They are to live normal lives and report and issues...This would be an issue. Unless you magically assume none of the trail participants tried to get pregnant.
Post by: omnigun on August 09, 2021, 04:23:36 PM
Wrong. Doesn't understand goal post moving.
This is why I asked you did you mean born or the ability to conceive, in not so many words. And you replied born. That is why I replied with the dates when the regular folk were allowed to get vaxxed. Then you replied about the studies. And now are replying that 40,000 people were studied trying to conceive or mid term and babies came out fine. None of this is moving of goal post, but providing more info to the subject.
What you are now doing is trying to discredit what goal post moving is. That is why I stated you were wrong.
I felt that 40K is a lot of pregnant women. So I did 5 mins worth of google. And Pfizer alone began trials for already pregnant women in Feb 2021. 4,000 were chooses. See below link:
https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-commence-global-clinical-trial-evaluate
Moderna is 1000 woman that were already pregnant and began in July 2021
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04958304
FDA regulates preggers and vaxx trials. I didn't read the below fully, so correct if needed:
https://www.fda.gov/news-events/fda-voices/global-regulators-envision-paradigm-shift-toward-inclusion-pregnant-and-breastfeeding-women-clinical
I couldn't find anything dated in 2020 or early 2021 by the first few pages of google. But like I mentioned only took about 5 mins to research. I'm not arguing that your number of 40K is wrong, but just it seemed a little high. Also IDK if the links above are USA only or world wide. So 40K may be possible.
I am going to look into this more because we will be planning for a family soon.
Trials started in 2020. It does not have to be a goal to get pregnant for the trial to be accurate. If there were any issues with the vaccines they would be reported. Over 9 months have passed since then. Babies have been born. Unless you beleive no one tried to have children.
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 09, 2021, 04:34:36 PM
Trails started in 2020. It does not have to be a goal to get pregnant for the trail to be accurate. If there were any issues with the vaccines they would be reported. Over 9 months have passed since then. Babies have been born. Unless you beleive no one tried to have children.
And here is the problem. "They would be reported". Were they and were they brushed aside? The goal is to get pregnant for the trial to be accurate. Cause if 1 wasnt trying, then its moot.
Read macs post about reporting ceasing.
Over 9 months have passed, do reports show no one had miscarriages or unable to conceive? Unknown.
This is why time will tell and why there are skeptics. On paper, the vaxx looks safe. But so did that DPT vaxx.
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Post by: changemyoil66 on August 09, 2021, 04:36:38 PM
They are to live normal lives and report and issues...This would be an issue. Unless you magically assume none of the trail participants tried to get pregnant.None magically had a miscarriage or unable to conceive.
It would be very difficult to prove or disprove conceiving. Miscarriages and birth defects would be easier.
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Post by: omnigun on August 09, 2021, 04:51:27 PM
None magically had a miscarriage or unable to conceive.
It would be very difficult to prove or disprove conceiving. Miscarriages and birth defects would be easier.
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True but conceiving issues would be seen today. Over a billion people have the vaccine, last time I checked there are no mass issues of people unable to get pregnant. This is slightly out of scope compared to being born yes, but never the less an statistic. To say there are issues when there is no evidence is foolish. Lets 100,000 people were in the trials over 9months ago. Of those surely babies have been born. They wouldn't be able to keep it a secret if not.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on August 09, 2021, 04:59:42 PM
They are to live normal lives and report and issues...This would be an issue. Unless you magically assume none of the trail participants tried to get pregnant.
You mean the way you "magically assume" any issues having to do with fertility, miscarriages, birth defects, low sperm count, low egg production, and so on will manifest in less than a year? And that the test group in 2020 actually included couples trying to get pregnant?
Post by: omnigun on August 09, 2021, 05:22:16 PM
You mean the way you "magically assume" any issues having to do with fertility, miscarriages, birth defects, low sperm count, low egg production, and so on will manifest in less than a year? And that the test group in 2020 actually included couples trying to get pregnant?
So you choose to make up something that have not shown for a long term what if? What if a chicken pox vaccine, 50 years later has some effect? 75? When do you approve it?
Scientists have shown that the covid vaccine is safe. Until proven otherwise. They have tested that theory of it affecting getting pregnant and if I recall it was proven that it has no affect.
Post by: ren on August 09, 2021, 05:54:33 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDa5iGiPgGs
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 09, 2021, 05:57:33 PM
Read macs post about Mike Rowe.
So we all know omni trust the gov. Same gov who proves "assault rifles" are bad and wants to ban them. I dont see him turning in any semi auto rifles or lowers he owns. They say 30rd mags are bad too.
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Post by: omnigun on August 09, 2021, 06:03:45 PM
This all boils down to if u trust the gov or not. They lied to the people for 4 years. Then moved goal post and flip flopped often about covid. Refer to covid thread for specific examples. Start with page 1.
Read macs post about Mike Rowe.
So we all know omni trust the gov. Same gov who proves "assault rifles" are bad and wants to ban them. I dont see him turning in any semi auto rifles or lowers he owns. They say 30rd mags are bad too.
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The government hasn't proved that. Some politicians say that but it isn't a government policy. I also don't see scientific proof either. If the government and scientists are in concensus with proof I will listen too.
Post by: Glasser on August 09, 2021, 06:29:05 PM
Pfizer’s trial data showed no efficacy of the vaccine for those with evidence of prior infection.
FDA published this 8 months ago.
The political scientists at CDC are trying to show otherwise by contriving studies that FDA would laugh out of the room if presented for approval
(https://i.imgur.com/gYebF1y.jpg)
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 09, 2021, 07:51:42 PM
The government hasn't proved that. Some politicians say that but it isn't a government policy. I also don't see scientific proof either. If the government and scientists are in concensus with proof I will listen too.
Forcing the public to be vaxxed (non gov employees) isnt policy either. But we are headed in that direction.
So will u give up your rifles and rifle mags over 10rds?
MDA, ET, Brady all have scientific studies that the DNC listens to and uses. So i repeat, will u surrender ur rifles and mags because there is a 0.001% chance a felon may steal it and use it in a crime?
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Post by: macsak on August 09, 2021, 07:55:15 PM
So you choose to make up something that have not shown for a long term what if? What if a chicken pox vaccine, 50 years later has some effect? 75? When do you approve it?
Scientists have shown that the covid vaccine is safe. Until proven otherwise. They have tested that theory of it affecting getting pregnant and if I recall it was proven that it has no affect.
please show the studies you are referring to...
Post by: hvybarrels on August 09, 2021, 08:02:38 PM
please show the studies you are referring to...
https://youtu.be/PpMAd7uXMSY
Post by: Glasser on August 09, 2021, 08:28:29 PM
please show the studies you are referring to...
(https://i.imgur.com/2asZhF8.jpg)
Post by: omnigun on August 09, 2021, 08:33:38 PM
please show the studies you are referring to...
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.kob.com/articles/unmh-doctor-debunks-myths-about-covid-19-vaccine-and-pregnancy-6200242.html
https://baptisthealth.net/baptist-health-news/the-truth-about-covid-19-vaccines-and-infertility/
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/the-covid19-vaccine-and-pregnancy-what-you-need-to-know%3famp=true
And so many more
Post by: omnigun on August 09, 2021, 08:38:16 PM
Forcing the public to be vaxxed (non gov employees) isnt policy either. But we are headed in that direction.
So will u give up your rifles and rifle mags over 10rds?
MDA, ET, Brady all have scientific studies that the DNC listens to and uses. So i repeat, will u surrender ur rifles and mags because there is a 0.001% chance a felon may steal it and use it in a crime?
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If there was concensus between government and scientists. Yes I would. One biased study/s does not count. You would have to factor all scenarios. For home defense, defense of country, Hobby. Then correlate that with my ownership and possibilities. What chance does a criminal stand to defeat locks, condo security, and a safe. Also a criminal stealing guns and using them is no fault of my own. It would be like if someone stole covid viles and used it as a bio weapon. Vs my ability to cluelessly spread covid. Last time I checked is impossible to clueless spread bullets.
Good luck. Covid was a much easier study.
Post by: macsak on August 09, 2021, 08:43:40 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.kob.com/articles/unmh-doctor-debunks-myths-about-covid-19-vaccine-and-pregnancy-6200242.html
https://baptisthealth.net/baptist-health-news/the-truth-about-covid-19-vaccines-and-infertility/
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/the-covid19-vaccine-and-pregnancy-what-you-need-to-know%3famp=true
And so many more
none of those are studies
those are articles
focus
and you should further focus and actually read what you google
"It is important to know that no study to date has specifically evaluated the coronavirus vaccine in pregnant and lactating women, though there have been a few pregnant women who were inadvertently enrolled in the vaccine trials."
"The World Health Organization (WHO) states they do not have any reason to believe there will be specific risks that would outweigh the benefits of vaccination for pregnant women."
Post by: Glasser on August 09, 2021, 08:44:53 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/8UadxPb.jpg)
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 09, 2021, 09:13:51 PM
If there was concensus between government and scientists. Yes I would. One biased study/s does not count. You would have to factor all scenarios. For home defense, defense of country, Hobby. Then correlate that with my ownership and possibilities. What chance does a criminal stand to defeat locks, condo security, and a safe. Also a criminal stealing guns and using them is no fault of my own. It would be like if someone stole covid viles and used it as a bio weapon. Vs my ability to cluelessly spread covid. Last time I checked is impossible to clueless spread bullets.
Good luck. Covid was a much easier study.
U stated if a vaxx helps 0.01% its a no brainer. So im just redirecting that same train of thought for gun safety. It doesnt matter what security you have. There is always a chance.
It isnt 1 biased study, try many. They pop up every legislative session. And there is a concensus. Read every anti 2a bill presented. Its usually in the first few pages/paragraphs.
U state home defense, what about the others who may get hurt by your stolen guns? Don't they have rights to be safe?
1 can cluelessly spread bullets. 2 days ago, an ewa man had a negligence discharge while cleaning his gun. The bullet went into his neighbors bathroom. If used for self defense, do u have 100% concrete? Zero windows or drywall or wood? Doesn't others have the right to be safe from your use for self defense and if u miss the bad guy?
Do u see the faulty logic in your vaxx mentality if used similarly to firearms? Goal post moved to "factor in scenerios". This is a rhetorical question and my point was made. There is no need to reply as this has now gone off topic.
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Post by: changemyoil66 on August 09, 2021, 09:15:06 PM
none of those are studiesU beat me to it. At least my links were .gov or direct from the makers of the vaxx. Not an interview of a person who said they did research.
those are articles
focus
and you should further focus and actually read what you google
"It is important to know that no study to date has specifically evaluated the coronavirus vaccine in pregnant and lactating women, though there have been a few pregnant women who were inadvertently enrolled in the vaccine trials."
"The World Health Organization (WHO) states they do not have any reason to believe there will be specific risks that would outweigh the benefits of vaccination for pregnant women."
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Post by: Glasser on August 09, 2021, 09:37:26 PM
U stated if a vaxx helps 0.01% its a no brainer. So im just redirecting that same train of thought for gun safety. It doesnt matter what security you have. There is always a chance.
It isnt 1 biased study, try many. They pop up every legislative session. And there is a concensus. Read every anti 2a bill presented. Its usually in the first few pages/paragraphs.
U state home defense, what about the others who may get hurt by your stolen guns? Don't they have rights to be safe?
1 can cluelessly spread bullets. 2 days ago, an ewa man had a negligence discharge while cleaning his gun. The bullet went into his neighbors bathroom. If used for self defense, do u have 100% concrete? Zero windows or drywall or wood? Doesn't others have the right to be safe from your use for self defense and if u miss the bad guy?
Do u see the faulty logic in your vaxx mentality if used similarly to firearms? Goal post moved to "factor in scenerios". This is a rhetorical question and my point was made. There is no need to reply as this has now gone off topic.
Does he not wear a crash helmet and a 3 point harness while driving his car? It would DRASTICALLY lower his chances of a injury IF he were involved in an accident. and by a LOT more than a percent or two. Does he wear custom doctor fitted NR plugs and 34 NR muffs over them when shooting? Does he make sure not to take a bench anywhere near another shooter? Safety is important.
Post by: omnigun on August 09, 2021, 10:29:29 PM
Does he not wear a crash helmet and a 3 point harness while driving his car? It would DRASTICALLY lower his chances of a injury IF he were involved in an accident. and by a LOT more than a percent or two. Does he wear custom doctor fitted NR plugs and 34 NR muffs over them when shooting? Does he make sure not to take a bench anywhere near another shooter? Safety is important.
I do double ear pro. Is that common? My car does not come with a 3 point harness. Benches are spread apart decently, but yes I do prefer ones not near anyone but not only safety but practical sense too.
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 10, 2021, 08:52:57 AM
I do double ear pro. Is that common? My car does not come with a 3 point harness. Benches are spread apart decently, but yes I do prefer ones not near anyone but not only safety but practical sense too.
It is common to wear double.
1 can install more secure seat belts. What's the cost compared to improving your chance of living by 0.01%? Same goes with a helmet. Now you would be at 0.02% increase for survival.
Post by: drck1000 on August 10, 2021, 08:58:11 AM
It is common to wear double.Different kind of helmet. . .
1 can install more secure seat belts. What's the cost compared to improving your chance of living by 0.01%? Same goes with a helmet. Now you would be at 0.02% increase for survival.
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 10, 2021, 09:00:20 AM
Different kind of helmet. . .
Heads
Post by: aieahound on August 10, 2021, 12:56:45 PM
Anyone post studies ?
There’s no semi-reliable studies either way.
Personally I think that’s a load of shibai someone made up.
Regarding the efficacy and side affects of the vaccine, that’s TBD.
Post by: hvybarrels on August 10, 2021, 03:44:07 PM
Regarding the whole infertility, can’t get pregnant thing.
Anyone post studies ?
There’s no semi-reliable studies either way.
Personally I think that’s a load of shibai someone made up.
Regarding the efficacy and side affects of the vaccine, that’s TBD.
Nobody knows, and we will have to wait until 9 months after the heard gets vaccinated and starts popping out babies to get an idea. What we know for certain is that we have been deliberately lied to and were denied informed consent regarding the many many other dangers.
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 10, 2021, 08:12:59 PM
Nobody knows, and we will have to wait until 9 months after the heard gets vaccinated and starts popping out babies to get an idea. What we know for certain is that we have been deliberately lied to and were denied informed consent regarding the many many other dangers.Personally, sterilization isnt on my radar. But birth defects are. Why would pfizer and moderna begin clinical trials this year if trials from 2020 are proven safe?
Smoking or booze doesnt 100% cause defects, but increases the odds. And both werent known for decades.
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Post by: hvybarrels on August 10, 2021, 08:26:41 PM
Personally, sterilization isnt on my radar. But birth defects are.
Thalidomide comes to mind as a horrifying example of the importance of stage 3 trials
Post by: Brystont1 on August 10, 2021, 11:25:32 PM
Post by: Glasser on August 11, 2021, 07:21:54 AM
Thalidomide comes to mind as a horrifying example of the importance of stage 3 trials
https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1425503669164941322
U.S. Centers for Disease Control (CDC) is now recommending #COVID19 vaccination to pregnant women based on a "new analysis."
According to Dr Drew there is a VERY VERY short list of drugs safe to give to pregnant women, Hydroxychloroquine is one of the few.
Fauci and Walensky are out of the damn minds.
Post by: aieahound on August 11, 2021, 09:12:13 AM
But I would want her to get it post birth.
Baby gets antibodies by breast ?
That’s just me.
Post by: hvybarrels on August 11, 2021, 09:19:39 AM
I would strongly discourage my wife from getting it if she were pregnant.
But I would want her to get it post birth.
Baby gets antibodies by breast ?
That’s just me.
We do know that the spike proteins cross the blood/brain barrier.
Post by: drck1000 on August 11, 2021, 09:31:16 AM
We do know that the spike proteins cross the blood/brain barrier.I heard on 102.7 (yup, highly factual reporting) that studies also show it can lead to ED. . . :shake:
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 11, 2021, 09:31:50 AM
Baby gets antibodies by breast ?
IDK, but anything the mom ingest transfers to the baby. Who knows about injections.
PFizers study began in feb 2021 and Moderna in April 2021 of pregnant women. And it's a 3 year study. I didn't check J&J.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on August 13, 2021, 09:46:41 PM
Lots of fear mongering going on both sides of the aisles lately regarding the vaccine. After some further research myself I’ve found myself leaning towards getting it. So what does everyone here think?
I did get the vaccine but I waited a while. I am also pretty sure I had covid back in Feb 2020 and I am relatively healthy so I am not in a high risk group and probably had some resistance already. The uncertainties of a vaccine approved in a record short amount of time and using a new(ish) form of medical technology did and still does cause me concern. I just hope to god this thing doesn't cause serious health problems for the younger generations. I did wonder, what if this vaccine was designed to do what Thanos did, wipe out half the population randomly. Every other dose has something that would kill us later or sterilize us.
But when I look at the numbers, if we take it simply as a gamble, then the vaccine is far far safer than catching covid.
I listened to both sides, the hard core vaccine pushers and the anti-vaxers but when I looked at just the data and listened to sources who appeared to be unbiased and reliable it is hard to argue against taking the vaccine. The vaccine pushers are preachy, annoying, and overly scared of covid but the anti-vaxers (generally) have arguments that are so often scientifically wrong or ignorant (though sometimes reasonable on the surface)
I am strongly against the government forcing the vaccine on anyone but I do support carrot approaches to get more people vaccinated. The one thing that does scare me is if hospitals are overrun by serious covid infections and that prevents me from obtaining some needed medical help. I will say that I am still hesitant to let my children get the vaccine.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on August 13, 2021, 09:50:49 PM
I would strongly discourage my wife from getting it if she were pregnant.
But I would want her to get it post birth.
Baby gets antibodies by breast ?
That’s just me.
I just heard a local doctor (OBGYN I think) covering this subject. She explained that the placenta destroys RNA(mRNA?) so the vaccine can't make it to the baby in utero however antibodies can make it through so the baby will have the benefit of already having antibodies when born. She strongly advised pregnant women to get the vaccine, said the numbers of pregnant women with covid went way up locally. (can't recall if they just tested positive or were admitted)
Post by: eyeeatingfish on August 13, 2021, 09:56:19 PM
Personally, sterilization isnt on my radar. But birth defects are. Why would pfizer and moderna begin clinical trials this year if trials from 2020 are proven safe?
If my understand is correct, the initial trials were limited to people in certain categories so the "proven safe" is for certain groups. That is why it isn't yet approved for young kids.
So additional trials may be underway to study certain other groups like certain age groups or people with certain medical conditions, etc.
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 13, 2021, 10:31:47 PM
If my understand is correct, the initial trials were limited to people in certain categories so the "proven safe" is for certain groups. That is why it isn't yet approved for young kids.Could be larger sample size needed as stages are reached. I did tell omni that i wont hold him to his estimate, which he said was 40,000.
So additional trials may be underway to study certain other groups like certain age groups or people with certain medical conditions, etc.
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Post by: changemyoil66 on August 13, 2021, 10:33:13 PM
I just heard a local doctor (OBGYN I think) covering this subject. She explained that the placenta destroys RNA(mRNA?) so the vaccine can't make it to the baby in utero however antibodies can make it through so the baby will have the benefit of already having antibodies when born. She strongly advised pregnant women to get the vaccine, said the numbers of pregnant women with covid went way up locally. (can't recall if they just tested positive or were admitted)On paper looks safe. But time is the true test. Downs, autism, ADD, etc...
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Post by: hvybarrels on August 14, 2021, 12:33:53 AM
I listened to both sides, the hard core vaccine pushers and the anti-vaxers but when I looked at just the data and listened to sources who appeared to be unbiased and reliable it is hard to argue against taking the vaccine. The vaccine pushers are preachy, annoying, and overly scared of covid but the anti-vaxers (generally) have arguments that are so often scientifically wrong or ignorant (though sometimes reasonable on the surface)
The warp speed process took a bad system and made it worse. It is reckless to assume the process has been unbiased and reliable when you have pharma companies throwing billions of dollars around and a revolving door policy for the regulators. The agencies who are in charge of keeping the foxes out of the hen house collect paychecks from the foxes, and that does not even go into the authoritarian wave of censorship that has swept across the country where medical professionals are having their careers destroyed and others are too terrified to speak up.
If you are not allowed to point out inconsistencies that is not science. If scientists and medical personnel are being threatened into staying quiet that is not science. And pinning all our hopes on experimental drugs while neglecting promising preventions and treatments (sorry no can help, come back when you are almost dead) is definitely not science.
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 14, 2021, 08:42:00 AM
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Post by: Brystont1 on August 14, 2021, 01:53:52 PM
I did get the vaccine but I waited a while. I am also pretty sure I had covid back in Feb 2020 and I am relatively healthy so I am not in a high risk group and probably had some resistance already. The uncertainties of a vaccine approved in a record short amount of time and using a new(ish) form of medical technology did and still does cause me concern. I just hope to god this thing doesn't cause serious health problems for the younger generations. I did wonder, what if this vaccine was designed to do what Thanos did, wipe out half the population randomly. Every other dose has something that would kill us later or sterilize us.
But when I look at the numbers, if we take it simply as a gamble, then the vaccine is far far safer than catching covid.
I listened to both sides, the hard core vaccine pushers and the anti-vaxers but when I looked at just the data and listened to sources who appeared to be unbiased and reliable it is hard to argue against taking the vaccine. The vaccine pushers are preachy, annoying, and overly scared of covid but the anti-vaxers (generally) have arguments that are so often scientifically wrong or ignorant (though sometimes reasonable on the surface)
I am strongly against the government forcing the vaccine on anyone but I do support carrot approaches to get more people vaccinated. The one thing that does scare me is if hospitals are overrun by serious covid infections and that prevents me from obtaining some needed medical help. I will say that I am still hesitant to let my children get the vaccine.
What data and what unbiased sources are you looking at?
Post by: drck1000 on August 14, 2021, 01:57:21 PM
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on August 14, 2021, 02:01:10 PM
Get if you want. Don't get it if you don't want. None of your business whether or not I got it and why. My business. Your irrational fear or desire to control the unknown doesn't override freedoms. Anyways, JMO. . .
:thumbsup:
Just like every other health question, it's a PRIVATE matter between YOU and YOUR DOCTOR.
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 14, 2021, 02:05:14 PM
What data and what unbiased sources are you looking at?This is 1 big problem. For every doc or scientist u can find for 1 side, u can find another in opposite.
Here is what we do know, the CDC has been wrong on more than 1 occasion.
The media is pushing the jab heavily.
Very little coverage for treatments or prevention like weight loss. Only treatments that did get major media focus was when Trump mentioned them.
What should be the big issue is bring forced to take a new jab that hasnt been approved by the FDA.
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Post by: omnigun on August 14, 2021, 06:42:54 PM
:thumbsup:
Just like every other health question, it's a PRIVATE matter between YOU and YOUR DOCTOR.
Not really. If you have a transmitable disease. It's your duty to tell others. Imagine how much stds and other viruses would be spread with that attitude. When your health effects others it's no longer only your personal business.
Post by: macsak on August 14, 2021, 07:15:32 PM
Not really. If you have a transmitable disease. It's your duty to tell others. Imagine how much stds and other viruses would be spread with that attitude. When your health effects others it's no longer only your personal business.
was this proven in a court of law?
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on August 14, 2021, 07:20:00 PM
Not really. If you have a transmitable disease. It's your duty to tell others. Imagine how much stds and other viruses would be spread with that attitude. When your health effects others it's no longer only your personal business.Hey, Moron.
Since when is "have a transmissible disease" in any way remotely similar to "has been vaccinated?"
Do you have any connected synapses that fire in sequence?
Post by: omnigun on August 14, 2021, 08:58:34 PM
was this proven in a court of law?
Previously I believe there were laws.
Post by: omnigun on August 14, 2021, 08:59:18 PM
Hey, Moron.
Since when is "have a transmissible disease" in any way remotely similar to "has been vaccinated?"
Do you have any connected synapses that fire in sequence?
Its about the risk, hence if you always have an option to test weekly. That's good enough instead of a vaccine.
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 14, 2021, 09:01:34 PM
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Post by: Flapp_Jackson on August 14, 2021, 09:22:58 PM
Its about the risk, hence if you always have an option to test weekly. That's good enough instead of a vaccine.
You said, "If you have a transmitable [sic] disease. It's your duty to tell others."
Yet, if you don't know if I'm vaccinated, you want to still treat me as if I am infected.
This is not about risk. If it was, we'd all be wearing N-95 masks now instead of ineffective pieces of cloth on our faces.
Post by: omnigun on August 14, 2021, 09:27:23 PM
You said, "If you have a transmitable [sic] disease. It's your duty to tell others."
Yet, if you don't know if I'm vaccinated, you want to still treat me as if I am infected.
This is not about risk. If it was, we'd all be wearing N-95 masks now instead of ineffective pieces of cloth on our faces.
It is your duty, either prove you are not infected or have a vaccine which implies you are not infected. I wear a n95 mask indoors at high risk areas, I am also vaccinated.
Post by: macsak on August 14, 2021, 09:50:19 PM
Previously Ibelievefeel there were laws.
makes a claim, can't back it up
not wrong, goalposts not moved...
Post by: macsak on August 14, 2021, 09:51:38 PM
It is your duty, either prove you are not infected or have a vaccine which implies you are not infected. I wear a n95 mask indoors at high risk areas, I am also vaccinated.
maybe it's consensus?
Post by: macsak on August 14, 2021, 09:52:50 PM
Its about the risk, hence if you always have an option to test weekly. That's good enough instead of a vaccine.
is that sentence English?
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 14, 2021, 10:01:01 PM
It is your duty, either prove you are not infected or have a vaccine which implies you are not infected. I wear a n95 mask indoors at high risk areas, I am also vaccinated.
Wrong.
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Post by: Flapp_Jackson on August 14, 2021, 10:43:32 PM
It is your duty, either prove you are not infected or have a vaccine which implies you are not infected. I wear a n95 mask indoors at high risk areas, I am also vaccinated.
Based on what law? You said it is law to report CONTRACTION OF A DISEASE.
Where does it also say I "have a duty" to PROVE to anyone I'm vaccinated.
BTW, I don't have an employer, I don't work on government land, and I don't attend school.
Show me the LAW that says I have such a DUTY.
#BadEnoughToBeATroll
#WorseToBeAMoronTroll
#NotSarcasm
Post by: drck1000 on August 15, 2021, 01:11:19 AM
Based on what law? You said it is law to report CONTRACTION OF A DISEASE.OG’s feelings > everyone’s freedoms
Where does it also say I "have a duty" to PROVE to anyone I'm vaccinated.
BTW, I don't have an employer, I don't work on government land, and I don't attend school.
Show me the LAW that says I have such a DUTY.
#BadEnoughToBeATroll
#WorseToBeAMoronTroll
#NotSarcasm
Post by: hvybarrels on August 15, 2021, 01:14:10 AM
Post by: ren on August 15, 2021, 07:36:31 AM
Post by: omnigun on August 15, 2021, 07:39:55 AM
Based on what law? You said it is law to report CONTRACTION OF A DISEASE.
Where does it also say I "have a duty" to PROVE to anyone I'm vaccinated.
BTW, I don't have an employer, I don't work on government land, and I don't attend school.
Show me the LAW that says I have such a DUTY.
#BadEnoughToBeATroll
#WorseToBeAMoronTroll
#NotSarcasm
Notice how I didn't say law. Duty is morality, it's also a patriotic thing to do. Don't yall religious folk love that sh%t.
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 15, 2021, 07:46:09 AM
Previously I believe there were laws.Omni states duty post.
Mac asked if proven in court.
Omni responds with above.
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Post by: macsak on August 15, 2021, 08:14:19 AM
Omni states duty post.
Mac asked if proven in court.
Omni responds with above.
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goalposts...
Post by: ren on August 15, 2021, 08:14:29 AM
Post by: macsak on August 15, 2021, 08:15:36 AM
Notice how I didn't say law. Duty is morality, it's also a patriotic thing to do. Don't yall religious folk love that sh%t.
once again, posting your feels and opinions as facts...
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 15, 2021, 08:37:58 AM
You guys responding to this obvious troll are dumb as he is. He is just fappin away at all these posts he's getting. He doesn't go to the range often - if any. Just shoots from the bench with a fairy tale 20lb AR10 put together by Bartlein (which according to my POC at Bartlein they don't do).Range too far
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Post by: Brystont1 on August 15, 2021, 09:43:40 AM
The one thing I cannot wrap my head around is why this wasn’t an issue with the flu? Why no mandatory vaxx for the flu even though the flu kills way more children per year. Why didn’t people have a “duty” to keep the flu to themselves?
Post by: omnigun on August 15, 2021, 10:05:00 AM
Omni states duty post.
Mac asked if proven in court.
Omni responds with above.
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In California I think it was a law.
Post by: omnigun on August 15, 2021, 10:06:09 AM
Kind of dumb IMO to compare a disease like STDs which you can KNOWINGLY give to another person to a virus which you may not even know that you have.
The one thing I cannot wrap my head around is why this wasn’t an issue with the flu? Why no mandatory vaxx for the flu even though the flu kills way more children per year. Why didn’t people have a “duty” to keep the flu to themselves?
Covid death rate is much higher than the flu. Also with the flu its your duty to call out sick and try and not to pass it to others.
Post by: omnigun on August 15, 2021, 10:06:56 AM
You guys responding to this obvious troll are dumb as he is. He is just fappin away at all these posts he's getting. He doesn't go to the range often - if any. Just shoots from the bench with a fairy tale 20lb AR10 put together by Bartlein (which according to my POC at Bartlein they don't do).
I said the barrel was done fully by bartlin. Not that they assembled it. Try read next time.
Aka it was not a blank barrel.
Next time I am at the range you can look. I'll post in the going to range thread.
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 15, 2021, 10:19:22 AM
In California I think it was a law.Didnt respond to post about "didnt say law". Instead further mentions more details.
FYI in CA it was illegal to knowing give someone HIV. That law was repealed 1 or 2 years ago. Idk about other states.
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Post by: macsak on August 15, 2021, 11:45:54 AM
In California I think it was a law.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on August 15, 2021, 01:11:16 PM
In California I think it was a law.
I think you're pissing on a rock and trying to tell us it's raining.
#TrollingTrollingTrolling
#NotSarcasm
#Can'tTrustPeopleWhoTrustGovernment
Post by: aletheuo137 on August 15, 2021, 02:50:57 PM
once again, posting your feels and opinions as facts...Ok, omni if your feeling patriotic and dutiful. What have you've done for your fellow man that is real.
I've been to Kenya twice for eye glass clinics. We've taught them how to be self sustainable.
We have Compassion International kids that we are supporting monthly.
My wife & I ran Operation Christmas child on Oahu for five years. We still support and help in packing that's impacted children around the world. We've been involved for the past 13 years.
We've taught classes in Divorce Care for people going through divorce.
What have you've done for your fellow man?
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Post by: Flapp_Jackson on August 15, 2021, 03:30:44 PM
Ok, omni if your feeling patriotic and dutiful. What have you've done for your fellow man that is real.
I've been to Kenya twice for eye glass clinics. We've taught them how to be self sustainable.
We have Compassion International kids that we are supporting monthly.
My wife & I ran Operation Christmas child on Oahu for five years. We still support and help in packing that's impacted children around the world. We've been involved for the past 13 years.
We've taught classes in Divorce Care for people going through divorce.
What have you've done for your fellow man?
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I question whether he's even been outside the US for more than a short vacation. Certainly never spent time living and working shoulder-to-shoulder with people in other countries.
In particular, Middle East and Pacific Rim countries.
Post by: omnigun on August 15, 2021, 03:45:50 PM
Ok, omni if your feeling patriotic and dutiful. What have you've done for your fellow man that is real.
I've been to Kenya twice for eye glass clinics. We've taught them how to be self sustainable.
We have Compassion International kids that we are supporting monthly.
My wife & I ran Operation Christmas child on Oahu for five years. We still support and help in packing that's impacted children around the world. We've been involved for the past 13 years.
We've taught classes in Divorce Care for people going through divorce.
What have you've done for your fellow man?
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Not given anyone Covid or a STD. Got that going for me. Half of those while good acts are not really patriotic. I pay my taxes, avoid crime and support the government, hell I even work for them.
Post by: omnigun on August 15, 2021, 03:46:49 PM
I question whether he's even been outside the US for more than a short vacation. Certainly never spent time living and working shoulder-to-shoulder with people in other countries.
In particular, Middle East and Pacific Rim countries.
If by pacific rim, you include Japan then yes, I've spent a decent amount of time there. And no I don't travel much. I go where work sends me and vacation once in a while.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on August 15, 2021, 03:56:10 PM
If by pacific rim, you include Japan then yes, I've spent a decent amount of time there. And no I don't travel much. I go where work sends me and vacation once in a while.
I've spent months at a time in S. Korea, Japan, Thailand, Guam (US Territory, but definitely different culture), and Saudi Arabia.
When you live and work among the locals of other countries, you learn things you don't learn as an American tourist.
Please provide a more specific answer than "decent amount of time". That could be 2 x 1 week trips, or 6 months.
Glad you're honest about not traveling much. It drives home our point that you really have no experience in the places you pretend to know all the answers for solving their problems.
The Taliban is bluffing? Do you even grasp how stupid that sounds?
Your ignorance is only surpassed by your need to lecture on the things of which you are most ignorant.
Post by: aletheuo137 on August 15, 2021, 04:08:41 PM
What have you've done for your fellow man?
Just taking a jab in the arm I wouldn't qualify as patriotic.
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Post by: omnigun on August 15, 2021, 06:30:35 PM
Answer the question, focus:
What have you've done for your fellow man?
Just taking a jab in the arm I wouldn't qualify as patriotic.
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Look at the previous page.
Post by: omnigun on August 15, 2021, 06:31:25 PM
I've spent months at a time in S. Korea, Japan, Thailand, Guam (US Territory, but definitely different culture), and Saudi Arabia.
When you live and work among the locals of other countries, you learn things you don't learn as an American tourist.
Please provide a more specific answer than "decent amount of time". That could be 2 x 1 week trips, or 6 months.
Glad you're honest about not traveling much. It drives home our point that you really have no experience in the places you pretend to know all the answers for solving their problems.
The Taliban is bluffing? Do you even grasp how stupid that sounds?
Your ignorance is only surpassed by your need to lecture on the things of which you are most ignorant.
Maybe 3 months? I understand Japan decent. Middle east? No idea. But I do know our military is strong and can crush anyone.
Post by: Brystont1 on August 15, 2021, 06:31:48 PM
Covid death rate is much higher than the flu. Also with the flu its your duty to call out sick and try and not to pass it to others.
I said death rate for children. More children died from the flu during the 2018-2019 flu season than COVID during the entire pandemic.
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 15, 2021, 07:17:42 PM
How do u know about covid? Do u get tested weekly and are neg since this began in 2020? Did u ever have an antibody test and how often?
Not given anyone Covid or a STD. Got that going for me. Half of those while good acts are not really patriotic. I pay my taxes, avoid crime and support the government, hell I even work for them.
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Post by: changemyoil66 on August 15, 2021, 07:20:00 PM
Fairytale feelings of what helping is. Just like how green you are.
Not given anyone Covid or a STD. Got that going for me. Half of those while good acts are not really patriotic. I pay my taxes, avoid crime and support the government, hell I even work for them.
Sorry to burst your bubble, you arent extraordinary.
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Post by: aletheuo137 on August 15, 2021, 07:42:00 PM
We all here do that, that doesn't make us any more or less patriotic. Again:
What have you've done for your fellow man?
Simple question to answer, especially if you have 3.7 Or does Flapp has a point, it's all about you.
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Post by: Flapp_Jackson on August 15, 2021, 07:55:13 PM
Not given anyone Covid or a STD. Got that going for me. Half of those while good acts are not really patriotic. I pay my taxes, avoid crime and support the government, hell I even work for them.
#1 -- How can you know for sure? Asymptomatic cases are common, so you could have been spreading the virus without even knowing.
#2 -- Being proud of not spreading an STD? The majority of people have never contracted an STD or, if they did, spread it. Spreading an STD requires a MINIMUM of 2 sexual partners -- one to give it to to you, and one to get it from you. I don't think you've had the opportunity unless you've been frequenting Hotel Street.
#3 -- Paying taxes are mandated by law. Not like you have much of a choice when most are withheld by your (government) employer.
#4 -- Avoid crime? WTF is that? You "avoid" committing crimes, or you "avoid" being a victim. One is again mandated by law giving you little choice, and the other isn't within your control.
#5 -- Support the government/work for them. I have a feeling you didn't seek out a government job to serve your fellow man. How many private sector jobs that offer the same pay did you work before that one? Did you have an "in" with the hiring manager? Is a relative or friend the man reason you landed that job? I bet there's more to the reasons you "chose" a government job that you're sharing.
If the best thing you have "going for you" is you aren't spreading diseases and get paid by the government, then the standards you set for yourself are pretty damn low!!
Post by: ren on August 15, 2021, 07:56:17 PM
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/states/hawaii/hawaii.htm (https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/states/hawaii/hawaii.htm)
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on August 15, 2021, 07:56:42 PM
Maybe 3 months? I understand Japan decent. Middle east? No idea. But I do know our military is strong and can crush anyone.
The job of the military is not to "crush anyone."
Another clue you really have no understanding of the things you try to lecture us about.
Post by: aieahound on August 15, 2021, 07:57:23 PM
Check how many responses in this thread are to OmniWhatever.
Post by: ren on August 15, 2021, 07:57:29 PM
#1 -- How can you know for sure? Asymptomatic cases are common, so you could have been spreading the virus without even knowing.
#2 -- Being proud of not spreading an STD? The majority of people have never contracted and STD or, if the did, spread it. Spreading an STD requires a MINIMUM of 2 sexual partners -- one to give it to to you, and one to get it from you. I don't think you've had the opportunity unless you've been frequenting Hotel Street.
#3 -- Paying taxes are mandated by law. Not like you have much of a choice when most are withheld by your (government) employer.
#4 -- Avoid crime? WTF is that? You "avoid" committing crimes, or you "avoid" being a victim. One is again mandated by law giving you little choice, and the other isn't within your control.
#5 -- Support the government/work for them. I have a feeling you didn't seek out a government job to serve your fellow man. How many private sector jobs that offer the same pay did you work before that one? Did you have an "in" with the hiring manager? Is a relative or friend the man reason you landed that job? I bet there's more to the reasons you "chose" a government job that you're sharing.
If the best thing you have "going for you" is you aren't spreading diseases and get paid by the government, then the standards you set for yourself are pretty damn low!!
govt jobs don't necessarily attract the brightest - private sector does
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on August 15, 2021, 07:58:07 PM
Fairytale feelings of what helping is. Just like how green you are.
Sorry to burst your bubble, you arent extraordinary.
But, he's a great sheeple.
#TrustsGovernment
#OnGovernmentPayroll
#NotSarcasm
Post by: hvybarrels on August 15, 2021, 08:06:15 PM
https://www.journalofinfection.com/article/S0163-4453(21)00392-3/fulltext#seccesectitle0004
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 15, 2021, 08:20:46 PM
#1 -- How can you know for sure? Asymptomatic cases are common, so you could have been spreading the virus without even knowing.Wonder if he meant avoid committing crimes. Which is not good. Dont commit crime is better.
#2 -- Being proud of not spreading an STD? The majority of people have never contracted an STD or, if they did, spread it. Spreading an STD requires a MINIMUM of 2 sexual partners -- one to give it to to you, and one to get it from you. I don't think you've had the opportunity unless you've been frequenting Hotel Street.
#3 -- Paying taxes are mandated by law. Not like you have much of a choice when most are withheld by your (government) employer.
#4 -- Avoid crime? WTF is that? You "avoid" committing crimes, or you "avoid" being a victim. One is again mandated by law giving you little choice, and the other isn't within your control.
#5 -- Support the government/work for them. I have a feeling you didn't seek out a government job to serve your fellow man. How many private sector jobs that offer the same pay did you work before that one? Did you have an "in" with the hiring manager? Is a relative or friend the man reason you landed that job? I bet there's more to the reasons you "chose" a government job that you're sharing.
If the best thing you have "going for you" is you aren't spreading diseases and get paid by the government, then the standards you set for yourself are pretty damn low!!
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Post by: omnigun on August 15, 2021, 08:45:02 PM
Post by: Direjackalope on August 15, 2021, 08:53:00 PM
Correction! Trillionaires!
Post by: macsak on August 15, 2021, 08:55:37 PM
This is going way off tangent and I don't see any productive outcome. Dropping the topic.
aka, "once again, i am getting my ass kicked after going off topic, so i am going to try and take the high road and claim 'off tangent'"
Post by: aieahound on August 15, 2021, 09:13:00 PM
#TheTrollHasControl
Check how many responses in this thread are to OmniWhatever.
aka, "once again, i am getting my ass kicked after going off topic, so i am going to try and take the high road and claim 'off tangent'"
Can you not help yourself ?
You still feel the need to reply to him ?
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 15, 2021, 09:19:15 PM
Can you not help yourself ?Yes. Someone needs to stop babying him and explain how things work.
You still feel the need to reply to him ?
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Post by: aieahound on August 15, 2021, 09:38:41 PM
Is that all it takes to derail a forum ?
Just my opinion.
Post by: hvybarrels on August 15, 2021, 10:20:39 PM
https://www.journalofinfection.com/article/S0163-4453(21)00392-3/fulltext#seccesectitle0004
Antibody-dependent Enhancement (ADE) is not some fringe theory.
The patterns we are seeing now indicate that is exactly what is going on and
we are weeks away from 1/6 of the US Population developing serious immune
response issues.
Lambda wave could be a bloodbath for the vaccinated.
Post by: hvybarrels on August 17, 2021, 01:16:53 PM
https://www.wesh.com/article/7-fully-vaccinated-covid-19-patients-die-in-what-doctors-say-is-extremely-rare-situation/37321628#
Post by: aieahound on August 17, 2021, 01:20:29 PM
I said the barrel was done fully by bartlin. Not that they assembled it. Try read next time.
Aka it was not a blank barrel.
Next time I am at the range you can look. I'll post in the going to range thread.
Don't laugh its ar10 and bartelin did the chambering.
Yes ordered it completed by bartelin. It was put together without any issues. Ordered with a matched bolt. Its a 1/7 twist, so going to see how that treats me.
Damn. Stumbled into it.
Omni. That was flat out.
Or you mean barrel completed and you completed it. But how would it be chambered by Bartelin.
Or I don’t know shit. Never assembled a complete AR.
Post by: aletheuo137 on August 17, 2021, 01:28:59 PM
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Post by: aieahound on August 17, 2021, 01:31:46 PM
Edit:
Ale’s post down below was originally here.
Post by: aieahound on August 17, 2021, 01:34:17 PM
You guys responding to this obvious troll are dumb as he is. He is just fappin away at all these posts he's getting. He doesn't go to the range often - if any. Just shoots from the bench with a fairy tale 20lb AR10 put together by Bartlein (which according to my POC at Bartlein they don't do).
That shoulda started my comment.
Post by: drck1000 on August 17, 2021, 01:35:16 PM
I thought we were on The Jab thread. We jabbing things down barrels?Jabbing the bs in these posts. . .
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Post by: aletheuo137 on August 17, 2021, 01:35:24 PM
That’s a wasted post.That's ok, I'm guilty of it too!
Went from thread to thread.
:stopjack:
My bad.
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Post by: Flapp_Jackson on August 17, 2021, 01:58:44 PM
I thought we were on The Jab thread. We jabbing things down barrels?
The
Jib - Jab
Thread?
https://youtu.be/nNaGzi_LpDw
Post by: omnigun on August 17, 2021, 02:23:17 PM
Damn. Stumbled into it.
Omni. That was flat out.
Or you mean barrel completed and you completed it. But how would it be chambered by Bartelin.
Or I don’t know shit. Never assembled a complete AR.
Chambering is just done to the barrel. Along with the matched bolt. (not complete bcg). Also if I meant I ordered it complete and assembled why would I mention the need to have it assembled...so yeah
Post by: aletheuo137 on August 17, 2021, 02:51:43 PM
That shoulda started my comment.#TrollinControl
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Post by: hvybarrels on August 19, 2021, 07:09:00 AM
This is a very bad sign. Not only are leaky vaccines likely to enhance dangerous new variants, but this is exactly what the initial stages of ADE look like in the lab. Coronavirus vaccines are notorious for this problem.
We will know in October when the vast majority of vaccinated will hit 8 months.
Post by: omnigun on August 19, 2021, 07:29:31 AM
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/landmark-study-proves-covid-vaccines-much-less-effective-advertised
This is a very bad sign. Not only are leaky vaccines likely to enhance dangerous new variants, but this is exactly what the initial stages of ADE look like in the lab. Coronavirus vaccines are notorious for this problem.
We will know in October when the vast majority of vaccinated will hit 8 months.
That's why we need boosters. Waiting for the chance to get mine next month or the following.
Post by: hvybarrels on August 19, 2021, 09:36:58 AM
Post by: omnigun on August 19, 2021, 09:51:45 AM
Destroy everyone’s immune system and then offer mandatory subscription based “updates” every few months? What a cash cow for big pharma! Their ethics make heroin dealers look like saints.
Please provide proof of your statement. Or explain how somehow vaccines will cause anything negative to your immune system.
Post by: drck1000 on August 19, 2021, 10:13:03 AM
Destroy everyone’s immune system and then offer mandatory subscription based “updates” every few months? What a cash cow for big pharma! Their ethics make heroin dealers look like saints.I was thinking about the impact of being isolated for some younger folks. Where normal human interaction builds immune systems, or where "bubble boys" get sick when they finally are able to leave their basement.
Post by: omnigun on August 19, 2021, 10:22:31 AM
I was thinking about the impact of being isolated for some younger folks. Where normal human interaction builds immune systems, or where "bubble boys" get sick when they finally are able to leave their basement.
The point of the vaccine is to allow you to interact with everyone else. Unvaxxed are the ones who should be isolated. So in that case its a double whammy on the unvaxxed.
Post by: macsak on August 19, 2021, 10:27:17 AM
The point of the vaccine is to allow you to interact with everyone else. Unvaxxed are the ones who should be isolated. So in that case its a double whammy on the unvaxxed.
please provide proof of your statement(s).
Post by: drck1000 on August 19, 2021, 10:27:29 AM
The point of the vaccine is to allow you to interact with everyone else. Unvaxxed are the ones who should be isolated. So in that case its a double whammy on the unvaxxed.Before the vaxx was available. . .
You don't have to reply to every damn post. . .
And, in your opinion. . .
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 19, 2021, 10:28:28 AM
Destroy everyone’s immune system and then offer mandatory subscription based “updates” every few months? What a cash cow for big pharma! Their ethics make heroin dealers look like saints.
Pharma is worst. Heroin dealers give the first hit free. And then charge you after that. Pharma is giving 2 shots free, but at the expense of tax payers. Hidden charging.
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 19, 2021, 10:29:41 AM
Before the vaxx was available. . .
You don't have to reply to every damn post. . .
And, in your opinion. . .
He can't control himself. He is bored and uses this site as entertainment. The fact that he argues with almost everything shows it. Unlike the rest of us who have lives and stuff to do. I'm sure he even believes in God and is just saying he doesn't so he can argue.
" Unvaxxed are the ones who should be isolated". How am I a communist?
Post by: drck1000 on August 19, 2021, 10:32:36 AM
He can't control himself. He is bored and uses this site as entertainment. The fact that he argues with almost everything shows it. Unlike the rest of us who have lives and stuff to do. I'm sure he even believes in God and is just saying he doesn't so he can argue.*fapp fapp fapp*
" Unvaxxed are the ones who should be isolated". How am I a communist?
He lonely. . . oh so lonely. . .
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 19, 2021, 11:24:37 AM
*fapp fapp fapp*
He lonely. . . oh so lonely. . .
Can only fapp so much b4 no work.
Post by: aletheuo137 on August 19, 2021, 11:27:36 AM
please provide proof of your statement(s).Get ready CMO, you know what comes next.
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Post by: omnigun on August 19, 2021, 11:33:53 AM
please provide proof of your statement(s).
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/fully-vaccinated-people.html
CDC has certain recommendations for those vaxxed. These recommendations are more centered on what more they can do because its safer.
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 19, 2021, 11:40:26 AM
Post by: macsak on August 19, 2021, 11:58:42 AM
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/fully-vaccinated-people.html
CDC has certain recommendations for those vaxxed. These recommendations are more centered on what more they can do because its safer.
lol
once again, you need to read before you post
that does not refer to anything about "The point of the vaccine is to allow you to interact with everyone else. Unvaxxed are the ones who should be isolated."
#focus
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 19, 2021, 11:59:49 AM
lol
once again, you need to read before you post
that does not refer to anything about "The point of the vaccine is to allow you to interact with everyone else. Unvaxxed are the ones who should be isolated."
#focus
Thanks for reading, I didn't want to waste my time and correctly assumed he was wrong again. Next he will copy and paste 1 section, but not read the full page.
Post by: omnigun on August 19, 2021, 12:15:31 PM
lol
once again, you need to read before you post
that does not refer to anything about "The point of the vaccine is to allow you to interact with everyone else. Unvaxxed are the ones who should be isolated."
#focus
https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/p0308-vaccinated-guidelines.html
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/fully-vaccinated-guidance.html
My apologies I linked the wrong webpage. Had two tabs open copied the wrong one.
If the vaccinated are allowed to do certain things while the unvaxxed are recommended not to. Obviously there is a difference in how each side is "treated".
The vaccine and the government has had a clear message, faster we get vaxxed faster we return to normalcy. Because there is a direct correlation to vaccines and less risk to get infected and infect others. Those who are not vaxxed should not return to normalcy because they are still a risk. Hence "The point of the vaccine is to allow you to interact with everyone else. Unvaxxed are the ones who should be isolated."
Post by: macsak on August 19, 2021, 12:30:36 PM
https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/p0308-vaccinated-guidelines.html
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/fully-vaccinated-guidance.html
My apologies I linked the wrong webpage. Had two tabs open copied the wrong one.
If the vaccinated are allowed to do certain things while the unvaxxed are recommended not to. Obviously there is a difference in how each side is "treated".
The vaccine and the government has had a clear message, faster we get vaxxed faster we return to normalcy. Because there is a direct correlation to vaccines and less risk to get infected and infect others. Those who are not vaxxed should not return to normalcy because they are still a risk. Hence "The point of the vaccine is to allow you to interact with everyone else. Unvaxxed are the ones who should be isolated."
so, you were wrong...
Post by: omnigun on August 19, 2021, 12:31:09 PM
so, you were wrong...
Yes about the link not about the topic.
Post by: macsak on August 19, 2021, 12:31:45 PM
https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/p0308-vaccinated-guidelines.html
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/fully-vaccinated-guidance.html
My apologies I linked the wrong webpage. Had two tabs open copied the wrong one.
If the vaccinated are allowed to do certain things while the unvaxxed are recommended not to. Obviously there is a difference in how each side is "treated".
The vaccine and the government has had a clear message, faster we get vaxxed faster we return to normalcy. Because there is a direct correlation to vaccines and less risk to get infected and infect others. Those who are not vaxxed should not return to normalcy because they are still a risk. Hence "The point of the vaccine is to allow you to interact with everyone else. Unvaxxed are the ones who should be isolated."
i asked for proof, you provided your opinion...
Post by: macsak on August 19, 2021, 12:32:09 PM
Yes about the link not about the topic.
you were wrong about that too...
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 19, 2021, 01:07:03 PM
you were wrong about that too...
"yes, about the link. Not the topic"
Post by: macsak on August 19, 2021, 01:45:49 PM
"yes, about the link. Not the topic"
nope, wrong about the topic too
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 19, 2021, 01:52:47 PM
nope, wrong about the topic too
BRB, need to find more links because now looking for a loop hole to dry and dig myself out of now.
Post by: Platinum808 on August 19, 2021, 01:58:37 PM
Is this real or fake?
Post by: macsak on August 19, 2021, 02:09:42 PM
Is this real or fake?not a real doctor
but most, if not all of that is not proven in a court of law...
Post by: macsak on August 19, 2021, 02:10:14 PM
not a real doctor
but most, if not all of that is not proven in a court of law...
and i've given blood and i'm not in california (allegedly)
Post by: omnigun on August 19, 2021, 02:13:32 PM
https://youtu.be/7TrCbt6ai1A
Is this real or fake?
Real speech. Utterly fake content. I'm willing to bet $100,000 in a legal wager.
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 19, 2021, 02:24:16 PM
Real speech. Utterly fake content. I'm willing to bet $100,000 in a legal wager.
Someone that has $100K, but doesn't buy an EV that's amazing.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on August 19, 2021, 02:28:30 PM
Real speech. Utterly fake content. I'm willing to bet $100,000 in a legal wager.
I have an idea. Rather than expressing YOUR opinion over and over without any substantial details, try actually DISCUSSING the other posts.
Look at what I quoted, and tell me how that in any way whatsoever adds to the discussion.
You didn't bother to DISCUSS WHY you think what you said. You did the standard Troll-approved hit & run post, where you sling an opposing opinion, then wait to see if others are stupid enough to engage you on details you can't be bothered to explain.
#TrollsGonnaTroll
#NotSarcasm
#OmniTroll
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on August 19, 2021, 02:30:33 PM
Someone that has $100K, but doesn't buy an EV that's amazing.
True. The only way the wager can be legitimate is for someone to hold the money and then pay the winners once the question is settled.
Of course, in his mind, he's the only one qualified to make that determination, so he's already won. No need to post his wager.
Post by: drck1000 on August 19, 2021, 02:31:30 PM
I have an idea. Rather than expressing YOUR opinion over and over without any substantial details, try actually DISCUSSING the other posts.I have an idea. How about we all ignore him. Like a petulant child who continually acts out. Ignore them until they can act like an adult that is capable of a mature rational conversation. . .
SNIP
Post by: macsak on August 19, 2021, 02:34:34 PM
I have an idea. Rather than expressing YOUR opinion over and over without any substantial details, try actually DISCUSSING the other posts.
Look at what I quoted, and tell me how that in any way whatsoever adds to the discussion.
You didn't bother to DISCUSS WHY you think what you said. You did the standard Troll-approved hit & run post, where you sling an opposing opinion, then wait to see if others are stupid enough to engage you on details you can't be bothered to explain.
#TrollsGonnaTroll
#NotSarcasm
#OmniTroll
don't forget- when called out to back it up, then google a link that you don't read, and when that is proven false, claim "i posted the wrong link"
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on August 19, 2021, 02:40:35 PM
I have an idea. How about we all ignore him. Like a petulant child who continually acts out. Ignore them until they can act like an adult that is capable of a mature rational conversation. . .
There are at least three of us who can't "quit him," like some virtual sequel to Brokeback Mountain!
I stopped replying for a while more than once, but everyone else feeding him just kept the jalopy rolling along with Mr. McGoo at the wheel getting in everyone's way.
As was mentioned, the few days he was absent were heaven. No bickering, except when someone posted what OmniGrub "would say." That's how deeply rooted he is in our brains. It's like those tiny creatures Khan put in Chekov's and Terrell's ears in Wrath of Khan. Once they take hold, you can't easily ignore them. We all know what he's going to say even before he posts. He's that simpleminded.
At this point, the only way this gets better is if Omni stops being Omni ... or he get's banned permanently.
If we're taking a vote to kick him off the island, I vote "Aye!" He's doing nothing positive for the 2A or anything else with his BS posts.
#MyOpinion
#Downside>Upside
Post by: groveler on August 19, 2021, 02:44:20 PM
I have an idea. How about we all ignore him. Like a petulant child who continually acts out. Ignore them until they can act like an adult that is capable of a mature rational conversation. . .I find the OG back and forth with everyone entertaining, however,
One of our previous regulars, Inspector gave me the best advice.
DFTT, I suppose I step on enough toes as it is.
Happy admissions day tomorrow. I'll have a toast to Kuleana
and pray he enjoys his day off as do all of you that get a three day
weekend.
:shaka:
Post by: drck1000 on August 19, 2021, 02:47:11 PM
There are at least three of us who can't "quit him," like some virtual sequel to Brokeback Mountain!I hear ya. Even for me, there are some crap that he posts where I HAD to say something. Now, I do try to respond to posts that are genuinely trying to learn. Not that I am the arbiter of that, but trying to set a good example.
I stopped replying for a while more than once, but everyone else feeding him just kept the jalopy rolling along with Mr. McGoo at the wheel getting in everyone's way.
As was mentioned, the few days he was absent were heaven. No bickering, except when someone posted what OmniGrub "would say." That's how deeply rooted he is in our brains. It's like those tiny creatures Khan put in Chekov's and Terrell's ears in Wrath of Khan. Once they take hold, you can't easily ignore them. We all know what he's going to say even before he posts. He's that simpleminded.
At this point, the only way this gets better is if Omni stops being Omni ... or he get's banned permanently.
If we're taking a vote to kick him off the island, I vote "Aye!" He's doing nothing positive for the 2A or anything else with his BS posts.
#MyOpinion
#Downside>Upside
Post by: drck1000 on August 19, 2021, 02:49:26 PM
I find the OG back and forth with everyone entertaining, however,I can see how it can be entertaining, to a point. As well as I wonder how someone lived to be that old. He may end up proving Darwin wrong. Or wonder how he lived this long without getting his butt whipped. . .
One of our previous regulars, Inspector gave me the best advice.
DFTT, I suppose I step on enough toes as it is.
Happy admissions day tomorrow. I'll have a toast to Kuleana
and pray he enjoys his day off as do all of you that get a three day
weekend.
:shaka:
Inspector is a wise old fart. I am long overdue for a check-in text to that old fogie. . .
Post by: groveler on August 19, 2021, 02:53:32 PM
I can see how it can be entertaining, to a point. As well as I wonder how someone lived to be that old. He may end up proving Darwin wrong. Or wonder how he lived this long without getting his butt whipped. . .Inspector and I went to high schools that were cross city rivals, at about the same time so I guess I'm an old Fogie too.
Inspector is a wise old fart. I am long overdue for a check-in text to that old fogie. . .
:thumbsup:
Post by: drck1000 on August 19, 2021, 02:59:48 PM
Inspector and I went to high schools that were cross city rivals, at about the same time so I guess I'm an old Fogie too.Ya. You old. :rofl:
:thumbsup:
Inspector isn't thaaat old. I think he is still of (somewhat) sound mind and (somewhat) capable body. ;D
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 19, 2021, 03:20:17 PM
I have an idea. How about we all ignore him. Like a petulant child who continually acts out. Ignore them until they can act like an adult that is capable of a mature rational conversation. . .Done.
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Post by: omnigun on August 19, 2021, 04:18:52 PM
Someone that has $100K, but doesn't buy an EV that's amazing.
I can leverage the equity in my assets.
Post by: omnigun on August 19, 2021, 04:23:12 PM
I have an idea. Rather than expressing YOUR opinion over and over without any substantial details, try actually DISCUSSING the other posts.
Look at what I quoted, and tell me how that in any way whatsoever adds to the discussion.
You didn't bother to DISCUSS WHY you think what you said. You did the standard Troll-approved hit & run post, where you sling an opposing opinion, then wait to see if others are stupid enough to engage you on details you can't be bothered to explain.
#TrollsGonnaTroll
#NotSarcasm
#OmniTroll
What to discuss that not everyone will die within 3.5 years from the vaccine? That there isn't mass sterilization? I responded to that video like one does to a crazy homeless man walking the the street screaming about the revelation coming. Instead of debating if he is correct. I would gladly wager he isn't.
Post by: Glasser on August 19, 2021, 04:28:32 PM
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on August 19, 2021, 04:38:48 PM
What to discuss that not everyone will die within 3.5 years from the vaccine? That there isn't mass sterilization? I responded to that video like one does to a crazy homeless man walking the the street screaming about the revelation coming. Instead of debating if he is correct. I would gladly wager he isn't.
As you said many times, we're going to treat you WITH THE SAME RESPECT you show to us.
Cuts both ways, Trollboy.
We respond to you as we would to any troll who cries nobody loves him here.
Post by: aletheuo137 on August 19, 2021, 04:39:02 PM
Ya. You old. :rofl:Hey, hey... respect your elders now!
Inspector isn't thaaat old. I think he is still of (somewhat) sound mind and (somewhat) capable body. ;D
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Post by: drck1000 on August 19, 2021, 04:42:13 PM
Hey, hey... respect your elders now!Respect. But will still rib y’all.
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Post by: changemyoil66 on August 19, 2021, 04:59:32 PM
He didnt even google.
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Post by: aletheuo137 on August 19, 2021, 05:23:57 PM
Respect. But will still rib y’all.Rib guy hmm. I like tenderloins & back strap myself.
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Post by: MassConfusion on August 19, 2021, 08:52:56 PM
sorry, I dont know if anyone wants to listen/cares but this is interesting especially in relation to the "vaccine". It is an interview with a Dr. David Martin.
It is in regards to the virus and patents dating back over the course of years.
https://www.bitchute.com/video/vBzWO89RfXPp/
Post by: hvybarrels on August 19, 2021, 11:39:39 PM
Post by: omnigun on August 20, 2021, 06:26:47 AM
Do they offer a jab to protect against VAERS? See other threat where omni thinks its a disease.
He didnt even google.
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#FakeNews
Post by: MauiAxis on August 20, 2021, 06:52:50 AM
Lets hope that those of you that are immune to facts, reason, data and science are equally immune to the virus.
Good luck!
Post by: drck1000 on August 20, 2021, 07:19:34 AM
My entire family has the vaccine. All good. And a great comfort knowing we have avoided life threatening illness, hospitalization and lengthy recovery in exchange for a few minutes of time.Tangential, but related question. Do you follow all recommendations of health experts, Gov't, etc? Every, single, one?
Lets hope that those of you that are immune to facts, reason, data and science are equally immune to the virus.
Good luck!
Post by: MauiAxis on August 20, 2021, 08:04:34 AM
Post by: drck1000 on August 20, 2021, 08:08:07 AM
Do I follow all medical advice? No probably not. I am overweight and dont work out as much as i should. Do I follow advice where the cost benefit is as favorable as the covid vaccine? Yes most assuredly.Understandable and me too. . . :-[
That said, so you pick and choose which you follow? Even despite the proven/historical risks?
To be clear, that's your choice. One that I respect. However, how would you take it you were mandated to conform to say a CDC, AMA, etc recommendation to maintain a BMI of (fill in the blank).
Post by: aletheuo137 on August 20, 2021, 08:09:27 AM
Do I follow all medical advice? No probably not. I am overweight and dont work out as much as i should. Do I follow advice where the cost benefit is as favorable as the covid vaccine? Yes most assuredly.Yes do what you feel is best you & your loved ones. We'll do the same.
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Post by: drck1000 on August 20, 2021, 08:31:09 AM
Yes do what you feel is best you & your loved ones. We'll do the same.Yup
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Post by: omnigun on August 20, 2021, 08:32:28 AM
Post by: Platinum808 on August 22, 2021, 11:38:39 AM
So your are telling me this is the worlds deadliest virus! :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship:
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on August 22, 2021, 12:38:05 PM
That's interesting if the CDC mandated a certain BMI. I would comply. Though I qualify as I am right now so I wouldn't have any issues. But I wouldn't support such a measure. Being fat doesn't effect others health and is a personal freedom. Much like abortion, smoking, drinking, sex etc.
Mandated?
Under whose authority?
What would be the means of enforcement?
Maybe they can mandate birth control to reduce abortions?
Or mandate a vegan diet to reduce red meat diet related health problems?
Or brushing your teeth 4 times a day to prevent tooth and gum problems?
How about mandating breast feeding because it's better for the baby?
Or 1 hour daily of exercise for everyone over the age of 3?
Ban every sugary soda, ice cream, cake, pie, cookie, candy bar and dessert, too.
Why stop at just weight? If you really want everyone to be safe and healthy, take away ALL CHOICE and mandate everyone live as you deem healthy.
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 22, 2021, 01:10:03 PM
Mandated?Anything not good for you, is deemed illegal. Demolition man.
Under whose authority?
What would be the means of enforcement?
Maybe they can mandate birth control to reduce abortions?
Or mandate a vegan diet to reduce red meat diet related health problems?
Or brushing your teeth 4 times a day to prevent tooth and gum problems?
How about mandating breast feeding because it's better for the baby?
Or 1 hour daily of exercise for everyone over the age of 3?
Ban every sugary soda, ice cream, cake, pie, cookie, candy bar and dessert, too.
Why stop at just weight? If you really want everyone to be safe and healthy, take away ALL CHOICE and mandate everyone live as you deem healthy.
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Post by: hvybarrels on August 22, 2021, 01:29:53 PM
Post by: drck1000 on August 22, 2021, 01:31:49 PM
SNIPWanna bet he focuses on the bet, as opposed to the point?
Why stop at just weight? If you really want everyone to be safe and healthy, take away ALL CHOICE and mandate everyone live as you deem healthy.
Anything not good for you, is deemed illegal. Demolition man.Like the three sea shells. . . :rofl:
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Post by: QUIETShooter on August 22, 2021, 01:39:05 PM
Like the three sea shells. . . :rofl:
I tried the 3 sea shells but found I needed 42. :D
Post by: drck1000 on August 22, 2021, 01:45:11 PM
I tried the 3 sea shells but found I needed 42. :D:rofl:
That made me lol. Made my day. ;D
That's where all the TP went. . . haha
Post by: omnigun on August 22, 2021, 02:16:00 PM
Mandated?
Under whose authority?
What would be the means of enforcement?
Maybe they can mandate birth control to reduce abortions?
Or mandate a vegan diet to reduce red meat diet related health problems?
Or brushing your teeth 4 times a day to prevent tooth and gum problems?
How about mandating breast feeding because it's better for the baby?
Or 1 hour daily of exercise for everyone over the age of 3?
Ban every sugary soda, ice cream, cake, pie, cookie, candy bar and dessert, too.
Why stop at just weight? If you really want everyone to be safe and healthy, take away ALL CHOICE and mandate everyone live as you deem healthy.
If you read my post. You would know I wouldn't support that. Only mandates for things that a person can do that would effect others. Much like the laws we have now against most crimes etc. I support euthanasia.... so obviously it's not about safety for one's self but that your actions effect others. You are not allowed to rob me of my freedom. Nor am I allowed to rob others of theirs.
Post by: drck1000 on August 22, 2021, 02:22:16 PM
Post by: hvybarrels on August 22, 2021, 02:29:27 PM
Post by: Brystont1 on August 22, 2021, 03:33:54 PM
If you read my post. You would know I wouldn't support that. Only mandates for things that a person can do that would effect others. Much like the laws we have now against most crimes etc. I support euthanasia.... so obviously it's not about safety for one's self but that your actions effect others. You are not allowed to rob me of my freedom. Nor am I allowed to rob others of theirs.
Well the vast majority of hospitalizations are overweight people. Using your logic if the ICUs beds are being taken up buy those with abnormal or high BMIs they are taking hospital beds away from others. Being fat is mostly a choice so shouldn’t the government get involved?
Post by: ren on August 22, 2021, 04:32:48 PM
Post by: omnigun on August 22, 2021, 04:45:55 PM
Well the vast majority of hospitalizations are overweight people. Using your logic if the ICUs beds are being taken up buy those with abnormal or high BMIs they are taking hospital beds away from others. Being fat is mostly a choice so shouldn’t the government get involved?
As with everything we need some sanity. There needs to be a red line and for me it requires immediately effecting someone else. For your scenario it would require two things to happen. Going to the ER and it being full. Immediate things include directly smoking and getting me to breath second hand smoke. Drunk driving and hitting me. Directly infecting me with a virus. Etc
Post by: hvybarrels on August 23, 2021, 10:02:56 PM
Post by: eyeeatingfish on August 25, 2021, 09:56:15 PM
Could be larger sample size needed as stages are reached. I did tell omni that i wont hold him to his estimate, which he said was 40,000.
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40,000 sounds about right for the covid tests. I can't recall which vaccine that was for or if it was cumulative off the top of me head. But as I recall 40,000 is actually a very big sample size for a drug trial with many drugs being tested and approved on much smaller groups.
So I don't think larger sample sizes are necessarily the answer but samples from different group types are. So children, for example, people with certain conditions, etc.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on August 25, 2021, 09:59:56 PM
On paper looks safe. But time is the true test. Downs, autism, ADD, etc...
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From what I have read the vast majority of vaccine side effects are discovered within the first 6 months. (Can't remember exact time frame but it is pretty short). Complications from vaccines past that window are quite rare so once we hit a certain timeline the scientists can say with pretty good reliability that they know the full side effects of the vaccine.
I think we must be cautious not to fall prey to the moving goal fallacy though, where someone says what about effects after 6 months, then what about effects after 1 year, then 2 years, then 4 years, etc etc. At that point it becomes less of seeking the truth and more of struggling to hold onto an objection. Plus if we did that for everything vaccines and drugs would take 60 years to approve.
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 25, 2021, 10:00:33 PM
40,000 sounds about right for the covid tests. I can't recall which vaccine that was for or if it was cumulative off the top of me head. But as I recall 40,000 is actually a very big sample size for a drug trial with many drugs being tested and approved on much smaller groups.I dont remember, but read on, i stated what the acutal # was. That number was way off (too high).
So I don't think larger sample sizes are necessarily the answer but samples from different group types are. So children, for example, people with certain conditions, etc.
Edit
Oops, read b4 that post. I just discovered that arrow to bring up what u quoted.
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Post by: changemyoil66 on August 25, 2021, 10:05:17 PM
From what I have read the vast majority of vaccine side effects are discovered within the first 6 months. (Can't remember exact time frame but it is pretty short). Complications from vaccines past that window are quite rare so once we hit a certain timeline the scientists can say with pretty good reliability that they know the full side effects of the vaccine.The fact that the trials are not complete yet should be cause for questioning. The already pregnant women isnt complete until 2023. Pfizer began with women 2-3 months preggers in feb 2021. Moderna began in july 2021. 4k women for pfiz and 2k for moderna. Just incase 40k is mentioned again. This info is direct from each companies website.
I think we must be cautious not to fall prey to the moving goal fallacy though, where someone says what about effects after 6 months, then what about effects after 1 year, then 2 years, then 4 years, etc etc. At that point it becomes less of seeking the truth and more of struggling to hold onto an objection. Plus if we did that for everything vaccines and drugs would take 60 years to approve.
Im sure it will end up fine. But once something is injected, there is no undoing of it.
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Post by: eyeeatingfish on August 25, 2021, 10:06:40 PM
What data and what unbiased sources are you looking at?
A wide variety of sources both inside and outside of the USA, data from studies, data from government databases, explanations from medical professionals, etc.
There is never a perfect way to eliminate bias, best you can do is work to find sources that are reliable. I have found a doctor on youtube to seem to fit this bill pretty well and I seek a lot of explanation/interpretation of data from his videos. He is called Dr. Z Dogg MD, I recommend him because he really doesn't take sides consistently and presents both angles.
What I hate though is when people call into question the bias and reliability only of sources that tell them something different than what their tribe believes. People who hate Trump so they find sources that don't side with Trump or people who hate the vaccine so they find some expert who speaks against the vaccine while on the side selling vaccine alternative products.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on August 25, 2021, 10:10:23 PM
The fact that the trials are not complete yet should be cause for questioning. The already pregnant women isnt complete until 2023. Pfizer began with women 2-3 months preggers in feb 2021. Moderna began in july 2021. 4k women for pfiz and 2k for moderna. Just incase 40k is mentioned again. This info is direct from each companies website.
Im sure it will end up fine. But once something is injected, there is no undoing of it.
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I think the 40,000 I was referring to were initial trials, not pregnant women or specialty groups. When you say the trials are not yet complete are you referring to general covid vaccine trials or specifically ones for preganant women?
I think I must point out that for all of our complaining about the virus, not knowing some hypothetical risk that could theoretically happen years from now, there are tens of thousands of people who are participating in these trials so the rest of us can benefit. Imagine if we all had such attitudes of fear and hesitancy, no drugs would ever make it past trials.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on August 25, 2021, 10:15:42 PM
The warp speed process took a bad system and made it worse. It is reckless to assume the process has been unbiased and reliable when you have pharma companies throwing billions of dollars around and a revolving door policy for the regulators. The agencies who are in charge of keeping the foxes out of the hen house collect paychecks from the foxes, and that does not even go into the authoritarian wave of censorship that has swept across the country where medical professionals are having their careers destroyed and others are too terrified to speak up.
If you are not allowed to point out inconsistencies that is not science. If scientists and medical personnel are being threatened into staying quiet that is not science. And pinning all our hopes on experimental drugs while neglecting promising preventions and treatments (sorry no can help, come back when you are almost dead) is definitely not science.
I would say yes and no. While I don't have great trust in big pharma companies I think it is also fair to point out that this was all on the world stage with intense scrutiny. We aren't talking about some pain killed drug that they could try to back door through the process without anyone noticing. We are talking about developing a vaccine while the whole world was watching. I think there was much more incentive to make a good product and do it the right way than the average drug, I listened to a doctor explain how normally something like the blood clot issue with the J&J vaccine would have never been caught during your average trial but the intense scrutiny made them catch it and address it heavily.
Post by: hvybarrels on August 26, 2021, 09:04:20 AM
I listened to a doctor explain how normally something like the blood clot issue with the J&J vaccine would have never been caught during your average trial but the intense scrutiny made them catch it and address it heavily.
This is the part where your critical thinking skills should have kicked in.
If the scrutiny was so intense then why the EUA?
More importantly if the drug companies and the government are so confident why do they demand immunity from legal action due to side effects?
They say it is safe, but clearly they do not believe it.
Post by: oldfart on August 26, 2021, 09:20:24 AM
Post by: eyeeatingfish on August 26, 2021, 09:59:52 PM
This is the part where your critical thinking skills should have kicked in.
If the scrutiny was so intense then why the EUA?
More importantly if the drug companies and the government are so confident why do they demand immunity from legal action due to side effects?
They say it is safe, but clearly they do not believe it.
I don't understand your question. People noticing and reporting the blood clot issue surrounding the J&J had nothing to do with the EUA, just that the clotting issue was likely caught because of the extra scrutiny. The clotting issue is so rare that even if this vaccine had been in trials for 4 years the side effect may not have even popped up. Once it got in widespread use with more numbers the likelihood that the complication would show greatly increased whether it was under an EUA or not.
I don't fully understand the legal immunity side of it but instinct tells me it isn't that simple as to assume that just because they want immunity means they don't think it is safe. Case in point: A lot of stores throw away their food rather than donate it to homeless shelters because they are affraid of getting sued if someone gets sick. Does this mean Dunkin Donuts (for example) doesn't think their donuts are safe? No, they just weigh the risk and figure its safer to just not be open to a lawsuit.
I did hear a short explanation about the legal protections the pharma companies wanted though. If pharma companies have no protection from lawsuits at all there is a potential that they could face mountains of suits everytime someone claims a serious side effect. The effect of trying to defend too many lawsuits would raise the cost of doing business significantly and one of two things would happen; either the vaccines become much more expensive or companies just avoid producing the vaccines. Either way that would cause serious problems so protections are built in. Also, when I looked at the fine print of the protection provided for the covid vaccine manufacturers it was not unlimited. There was a period of time where they had immunity but it expired in 4 years IIRC. So it is a myth that the pharma companies have complete immunity though they do have some immunity.
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 26, 2021, 10:18:42 PM
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Post by: hvybarrels on August 27, 2021, 12:29:48 AM
I don't understand your question. People noticing and reporting the blood clot issue surrounding the J&J had nothing to do with the EUA, just that the clotting issue was likely caught because of the extra scrutiny. The clotting issue is so rare that even if this vaccine had been in trials for 4 years the side effect may not have even popped up. Once it got in widespread use with more numbers the likelihood that the complication would show greatly increased whether it was under an EUA or not.
I don't fully understand the legal immunity side of it but instinct tells me it isn't that simple as to assume that just because they want immunity means they don't think it is safe. Case in point: A lot of stores throw away their food rather than donate it to homeless shelters because they are affraid of getting sued if someone gets sick. Does this mean Dunkin Donuts (for example) doesn't think their donuts are safe? No, they just weigh the risk and figure its safer to just not be open to a lawsuit.
I did hear a short explanation about the legal protections the pharma companies wanted though. If pharma companies have no protection from lawsuits at all there is a potential that they could face mountains of suits everytime someone claims a serious side effect. The effect of trying to defend too many lawsuits would raise the cost of doing business significantly and one of two things would happen; either the vaccines become much more expensive or companies just avoid producing the vaccines. Either way that would cause serious problems so protections are built in. Also, when I looked at the fine print of the protection provided for the covid vaccine manufacturers it was not unlimited. There was a period of time where they had immunity but it expired in 4 years IIRC. So it is a myth that the pharma companies have complete immunity though they do have some immunity.
You obviously believe that you live in a world run by trustworthy leaders who consistently make competent decisions based on their overwhelming sense of responsibility for our well being.
Good luck with that.
(https://s1.qwant.com/thumbr/0x0/9/2/46045d2defadcccc3c55cad6265069b0157038259c5bb0dcf376a3906029ce/tenor.gif?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.tenor.com%2Fimages%2F17670737c7a2b79bc793f413aee62f19%2Ftenor.gif&q=0&b=1&p=0&a=1)
Post by: MassConfusion on August 27, 2021, 05:19:43 PM
You obviously believe that you live in a world run by trustworthy leaders who consistently make competent decisions based on their overwhelming sense of responsibility for our well being.
Good luck with that.
(https://s1.qwant.com/thumbr/0x0/9/2/46045d2defadcccc3c55cad6265069b0157038259c5bb0dcf376a3906029ce/tenor.gif?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.tenor.com%2Fimages%2F17670737c7a2b79bc793f413aee62f19%2Ftenor.gif&q=0&b=1&p=0&a=1)
Half of what you see and none of what your hear.
What do you get for pretending the danger's not real
Meek and obedient, you follow the leader
Down well trodden corridors into the valley of steel
What a surprise!
A look of terminal shock in your eyes
Now things are really what they seem
No, this is no bad dream
(https://rifreedom.org/wp-content/uploads/Depositphotos_1596239_m-1030x687.jpg)
Post by: eyeeatingfish on August 27, 2021, 10:14:31 PM
You obviously believe that you live in a world run by trustworthy leaders who consistently make competent decisions based on their overwhelming sense of responsibility for our well being.
Good luck with that.
(https://s1.qwant.com/thumbr/0x0/9/2/46045d2defadcccc3c55cad6265069b0157038259c5bb0dcf376a3906029ce/tenor.gif?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.tenor.com%2Fimages%2F17670737c7a2b79bc793f413aee62f19%2Ftenor.gif&q=0&b=1&p=0&a=1)
And what is the alternative? Trust no one and cling to the best conspiracy theory? The logic you suggest would allow us to know nothing beyond our own little world.
Do I trust leaders? Sometimes. Do I trust that the average doctor, scientist, etc are trying to do good jobs and are competent? Yes.
I look for the data rather than some politician's spin.
Post by: hvybarrels on August 27, 2021, 10:33:22 PM
And what is the alternative? Trust no one and cling to the best conspiracy theory? The logic you suggest would allow us to know nothing beyond our own little world.
Do I trust leaders? Sometimes. Do I trust that the average doctor, scientist, etc are trying to do good jobs and are competent? Yes.
I look for the data rather than some politician's spin.
But you don't believe the data. The data says these jabs are dangerous, in most cases completely unnecessary, and forcing everyone to take them just so big pharma can rake in billions is a terrible idea.
You believe the people on television who are consistently wrong about everything.
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 28, 2021, 06:01:24 AM
And what is the alternative? Trust no one and cling to the best conspiracy theory? The logic you suggest would allow us to know nothing beyond our own little world.US has 1 data, many other countries has another (UK, Canada, Israel, Australia,etc...). So who u gonna believe.
Do I trust leaders? Sometimes. Do I trust that the average doctor, scientist, etc are trying to do good jobs and are competent? Yes.
I look for the data rather than some politician's spin.
Example: guy gets arrested for dui even though his 5 friends told him not to drive home.
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Post by: Flapp_Jackson on August 28, 2021, 01:17:18 PM
And what is the alternative? Trust no one and cling to the best conspiracy theory? The logic you suggest would allow us to know nothing beyond our own little world.
Do I trust leaders? Sometimes. Do I trust that the average doctor, scientist, etc are trying to do good jobs and are competent? Yes.
I look for the data rather than some politician's spin.
No. The alternative is to hold the press and government officials accountable. Without the public enforcing standards of ethics and integrity, the people we depend on for the truth have no external motivation to be truthful.
I see people lying in front of Congress in many important hearings, but they are never ever brought to answer for their lies.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on August 28, 2021, 03:20:41 PM
The data says these jabs are dangerous, in most cases completely unnecessary, and forcing everyone to take them just so big pharma can rake in billions is a terrible idea.
Thats not what the data shows.
It is always frustratingly entertaining that people are so sure the new and majority of doctors, organizations, etc. are all lying to us but are so quick to believe the few individuals with a cult of personality or who will say something people want to hear. They won't trust a pharma guy (very understanable) but they will trust some guy selling some "all natural super cure"
Post by: eyeeatingfish on August 28, 2021, 03:23:42 PM
US has 1 data, many other countries has another (UK, Canada, Israel, Australia,etc...). So who u gonna believe.
Example: guy gets arrested for dui even though his 5 friends told him not to drive home.
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What sets of data are you referring to? Are you referring to the vaccine, covid rates, ?
And some variation should be understandable given the many variables. Polulation density, racial differences, weather, rules, compliance rates, etc.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on August 28, 2021, 03:29:29 PM
Thats not what the data shows.
It is always frustratingly entertaining that people are so sure the new and majority of doctors, organizations, etc. are all lying to us but are so quick to believe the few individuals with a cult of personality or who will say something people want to hear. They won't trust a pharma guy (very understanable) but they will trust some guy selling some "all natural super cure"
You should take note that most doctors did not perform independent studies or experiments to obtain said opinions. They were fed the information in journals and via pharmaceutical reps. So, even if there's a consensus, it's all based on the same data.
Until the data is verified and empirically validated, we're constrained by whatever is provided -- in this case, it's a short-term, corporate-funded collection of data. Just because the CDC regurgitates the data doesn't mean it's perfect.
Science involves skepticism, not blind faith. And accusing skeptics of following conspiracies after so many failures on the part of the "experts" during the pandemic, you're basically becoming a useful idiot -- willfully pushing a narrative and bullying opposing voices with no independent knowledge whatsoever.
I'd say skepticism is warranted.
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 28, 2021, 07:43:47 PM
What sets of data are you referring to? Are you referring to the vaccine, covid rates, ?Everhthing is different compared to the US. I suggest u look up Israel for starters. They use pfizet, which is what we use here. Or read the covid thread, but go back 2months or so.
And some variation should be understandable given the many variables. Polulation density, racial differences, weather, rules, compliance rates, etc.
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Post by: eyeeatingfish on August 28, 2021, 09:34:03 PM
You should take note that most doctors did not perform independent studies or experiments to obtain said opinions. They were fed the information in journals and via pharmaceutical reps. So, even if there's a consensus, it's all based on the same data.
Until the data is verified and empirically validated, we're constrained by whatever is provided -- in this case, it's a short-term, corporate-funded collection of data. Just because the CDC regurgitates the data doesn't mean it's perfect.
Science involves skepticism, not blind faith. And accusing skeptics of following conspiracies after so many failures on the part of the "experts" during the pandemic, you're basically becoming a useful idiot -- willfully pushing a narrative and bullying opposing voices with no independent knowledge whatsoever.
I'd say skepticism is warranted.
But a physician has the background education to understand whats being written in the journals and see beyond a medical sales pitch. Not saying they can never be mislead of fail to read the data, just pointing out that they are less likely to fall prey to misinformation than a layperson.
Until the data is verified and validated by who? Will we not be satisfied till Alex Jones tells us he looked into the data and says it is safe? Do you not believe covid is real or that people aren't dying from it? Do you really think this is just a house of cards with made up numbers everywhere? Lets put it this way, is it conceivable that maybe we are having a pandemic with a dangerous virus and most scientists, doctors, government officials, etc. are doing their best to respond to the situation but that just humans make mistakes and miscalculations? Which is more plausible, that or a giant conspiracy involving millions of people, scientists, doctors, news agencies, etc. all trying to trick us?
I am not saying all skeptics are falling victim to stupid conspiracy theories but some seem to be. I have had many conversations with skeptics who are perfectly reasonable in their hesitancy, but I have also met a few who have fallen hard for the dumbest conspiracy theories surrounding covid and the vaccine
Post by: eyeeatingfish on August 28, 2021, 09:35:48 PM
Everhthing is different compared to the US. I suggest u look up Israel for starters. They use pfizet, which is what we use here. Or read the covid thread, but go back 2months or so.
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So you are saying that Israel has significantly different numbers surrounding the Pfizer vaccine? And not ones that can be attributed to vaccine rates, when delta hit them, the weather, etc?
Post by: Glasser on August 28, 2021, 09:51:23 PM
I am not saying all skeptics are falling victim to stupid conspiracy theories but some seem to be. I have had many conversations with skeptics who are perfectly reasonable in their hesitancy, but I have also met a few who have fallen hard for the dumbest conspiracy theories surrounding covid and the vaccine
You can lay that blame squarely at the feet of the CDC. Fauci admitted he 'LIED for the greater good' about all this, he cant go 2 days without going on TV and contradict himself constantly, he has made himself into a laughing stock.
They refuse to release full sets of data, and leave out a LOT of critical demographic information, they keep trying to push a One Sized Fits All solution, which in medicine is flat out stupid.
None of the CDC People forcing medical advice on everyone are medical clinicians or Internists (people who are actually trained to evaluate and care for patients), they are scientists, not practicing doctors.
Literally the CDCs only job is to collect data and communicate it effectively, they have failed MASSIVELY at their core mandate. If you talk to an actual non-hysterical doctor who is actually following the data as it comes out, the picture is WAY different than what you are seeing on TV, especially from the mouths of the spokes people for the CDC.
listen to the first 15 mins of each of these episodes and listen to Dr Drew who is really on top of all this talk about what is really going on and how different it is from what you are seeing / hearing on TV
https://www.podcastone.com/episode/1461-Nice-To-Have-A-Skill
https://www.podcastone.com/episode/1462-You-Wanna-Be-A-Hawk-Not-A-Bat
Post by: Glasser on August 29, 2021, 09:58:03 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DOOZpGA_VI
Post by: oldfart on August 29, 2021, 10:16:45 AM
Post by: hvybarrels on August 29, 2021, 11:09:59 AM
https://rumble.com/vkdkjx-unvaccinated-men-in-2022.html
Post by: eyeeatingfish on August 30, 2021, 10:02:46 PM
Hmmm.... Science from an actual Scientist, very very different than the Science coming from the Bureaucrats. She puts everything very plainly, gives very good examples, explanations and real world parallels.
I am not going to sit here and try to evaluate/judge her claims because I don't have the background to do so but I will note that people seem to always find an expert who says what they like and hold it up as proof even if that expert represented 1 out of a 100 and 99 were saying the opposite. Heck, look at the lady who touted Hydroxychloroquine, she was a real doctor, an "expert" by meany measures and people pointed to her to support their beliefs BUT oh yeah she is a crazy lady who believed aliens or demons come have sex with humans.
I am not saying this lady is crazy or anything though as that is not quite what I am getting at here. What I am getting at is that with the internet it isn't hard for that 1 out of 100 or 1000 to speak contrary to the best current consensus among scientists about the data and get more attention than might be warranted by the actual situation. No one brings in the other 99 scientists to all say "yes the data shows X, government guidance is accurate" though. In effect we sometimes have a vocal minority getting the attention.
Now should these people be shut down? Absolutely not, but that doesn't mean this isn't necessarily a problem since people can latch onto these outlier opinions disproportionately and it can cause issues among society.
Imagine the following hypothetical: A big earth quake happens in the pacific and the Pacific Tsunami Warning Center issues an alarm that a big tsunami will hit Hawaii within 12 hours. News, radio, government officials all tell people to evacuate low lying areas. But we have some guy on Facebook with solid scientific credentials and he claims that the warning is just government trying to control us and scare us, to make Hawaii seem dangerous so we will have fewer tourists, etc. People who listen to this expert could end up dying if they don't evacuate. Maybe they don't trust tsunami science, maybe they don't trust the governor, etc etc. End result could be many people dying unnecessarily.
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 30, 2021, 10:13:56 PM
I am not going to sit here and try to evaluate/judge her claims because I don't have the background to do so but I will note that people seem to always find an expert who says what they like and hold it up as proof even if that expert represented 1 out of a 100 and 99 were saying the opposite. Heck, look at the lady who touted Hydroxychloroquine, she was a real doctor, an "expert" by meany measures and people pointed to her to support their beliefs BUT oh yeah she is a crazy lady who believed aliens or demons come have sex with humans.Lie Hagi mentioned many times 1 hurricane going hit.
I am not saying this lady is crazy or anything though as that is not quite what I am getting at here. What I am getting at is that with the internet it isn't hard for that 1 out of 100 or 1000 to speak contrary to the best current consensus among scientists about the data and get more attention than might be warranted by the actual situation. No one brings in the other 99 scientists to all say "yes the data shows X, government guidance is accurate" though. In effect we sometimes have a vocal minority getting the attention.
Now should these people be shut down? Absolutely not, but that doesn't mean this isn't necessarily a problem since people can latch onto these outlier opinions disproportionately and it can cause issues among society.
Imagine the following hypothetical: A big earth quake happens in the pacific and the Pacific Tsunami Warning Center issues an alarm that a big tsunami will hit Hawaii within 12 hours. News, radio, government officials all tell people to evacuate low lying areas. But we have some guy on Facebook with solid scientific credentials and he claims that the warning is just government trying to control us and scare us, to make Hawaii seem dangerous so we will have fewer tourists, etc. People who listen to this expert could end up dying if they don't evacuate. Maybe they don't trust tsunami science, maybe they don't trust the governor, etc etc. End result could be many people dying unnecessarily.
Then to add to the hypothetical, hpd has orders to confiscate all guns door to door so when tsunami does it, guns dont fall into the wrong hands. Would hpd do it? There is no natural disaster issued yet.
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Post by: eyeeatingfish on August 30, 2021, 10:16:38 PM
You can lay that blame squarely at the feet of the CDC. Fauci admitted he 'LIED for the greater good' about all this, he cant go 2 days without going on TV and contradict himself constantly, he has made himself into a laughing stock.
They refuse to release full sets of data, and leave out a LOT of critical demographic information, they keep trying to push a One Sized Fits All solution, which in medicine is flat out stupid.
None of the CDC People forcing medical advice on everyone are medical clinicians or Internists (people who are actually trained to evaluate and care for patients), they are scientists, not practicing doctors.
Literally the CDCs only job is to collect data and communicate it effectively, they have failed MASSIVELY at their core mandate. If you talk to an actual non-hysterical doctor who is actually following the data as it comes out, the picture is WAY different than what you are seeing on TV, especially from the mouths of the spokes people for the CDC.
listen to the first 15 mins of each of these episodes and listen to Dr Drew who is really on top of all this talk about what is really going on and how different it is from what you are seeing / hearing on TV
https://www.podcastone.com/episode/1461-Nice-To-Have-A-Skill
https://www.podcastone.com/episode/1462-You-Wanna-Be-A-Hawk-Not-A-Bat
I thought Fauci made a mistake with his "noble lie" but I understand why he did it. It was a bit of a gamble and I think it didn't pay off, I think it hurt his credibility. The problem is where people use that fact as a justification to ignore Facui where they want. People already wanting fo avoid mask mandates as unconstitutional communistic assaults on their freedom used this lie to affirm their belief. The objective individual should be able to see that though Facui did lie to us it is possible that he did so with good intentions. Leaders are people and perfectly capable of dumb mistakes. People always assume mass corruption and conspiracy in government but usually it is just humans making dumb human mistakes. Case in point, many of the best scientists aren't very good public speakers, they are nerdy and technical and hard to understand so we get advice that doesn't resonate well with the laypeople, not because they are all lying to us but because of a failure to communicate effectively.
What do you mean they refuse to release full sets of data? There is data from all sorts of sources, federal, state, local, private and governmental data, etc. I just don't know what sets of data you are suggesting they are hiding from us.
As far as your claim, I find it hard to believe that the CDC doesn't employ any medical doctors, just "scientists". So the CDC made all their recommendations without the input of any doctors?
Take a look at this guy's videos. He does a good job of seeing all sides. He totally sides with people who are skeptical, how they have rational reasons but he also explains why he thinks the data and science shows the vaccines are safe and effective for most people.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8RpPeXCySw
Post by: ren on August 30, 2021, 10:18:01 PM
I am not going to sit here and try to evaluate/judge her claims because I don't have the background to do so but I will note that people seem to always find an expert who says what they like and hold it up as proof even if that expert represented 1 out of a 100 and 99 were saying the opposite. Heck, look at the lady who touted Hydroxychloroquine, she was a real doctor, an "expert" by meany measures and people pointed to her to support their beliefs BUT oh yeah she is a crazy lady who believed aliens or demons come have sex with humans.
I am not saying this lady is crazy or anything though as that is not quite what I am getting at here. What I am getting at is that with the internet it isn't hard for that 1 out of 100 or 1000 to speak contrary to the best current consensus among scientists about the data and get more attention than might be warranted by the actual situation. No one brings in the other 99 scientists to all say "yes the data shows X, government guidance is accurate" though. In effect we sometimes have a vocal minority getting the attention.
Now should these people be shut down? Absolutely not, but that doesn't mean this isn't necessarily a problem since people can latch onto these outlier opinions disproportionately and it can cause issues among society.
Imagine the following hypothetical: A big earth quake happens in the pacific and the Pacific Tsunami Warning Center issues an alarm that a big tsunami will hit Hawaii within 12 hours. News, radio, government officials all tell people to evacuate low lying areas. But we have some guy on Facebook with solid scientific credentials and he claims that the warning is just government trying to control us and scare us, to make Hawaii seem dangerous so we will have fewer tourists, etc. People who listen to this expert could end up dying if they don't evacuate. Maybe they don't trust tsunami science, maybe they don't trust the governor, etc etc. End result could be many people dying unnecessarily.
The same government that falsely pulled the alert trigger on a missile from NK? Covid 19 and a tsunami are different topics with lots of different variables. An infection versus an incoming wave of water with some degree of predictability and timetable. Covid19 has no timetable. The government is controlling that right now.
Post by: ren on August 30, 2021, 10:22:59 PM
I thought Fauci made a mistake with his "noble lie" but I understand why he did it. It was a bit of a gamble and I think it didn't pay off, I think it hurt his credibility. The problem is where people use that fact as a justification to ignore Facui where they want. People already wanting fo avoid mask mandates as unconstitutional communistic assaults on their freedom used this lie to affirm their belief. The objective individual should be able to see that though Facui did lie to us it is possible that he did so with good intentions. Leaders are people and perfectly capable of dumb mistakes. People always assume mass corruption and conspiracy in government but usually it is just humans making dumb human mistakes. Case in point, many of the best scientists aren't very good public speakers, they are nerdy and technical and hard to understand so we get advice that doesn't resonate well with the laypeople, not because they are all lying to us but because of a failure to communicate effectively.
What do you mean they refuse to release full sets of data? There is data from all sorts of sources, federal, state, local, private and governmental data, etc. I just don't know what sets of data you are suggesting they are hiding from us.
As far as your claim, I find it hard to believe that the CDC doesn't employ any medical doctors, just "scientists". So the CDC made all their recommendations without the input of any doctors?
Take a look at this guy's videos. He does a good job of seeing all sides. He totally sides with people who are skeptical, how they have rational reasons but he also explains why he thinks the data and science shows the vaccines are safe and effective for most people.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8RpPeXCySw
When does a liar ever have a good intention? And masks? It doesn't take a genius to figure out that very well may be the reason why we are at high infection rates. There is no standard for masks. No procedure to educate the public on proper donning of them. Simple test. Put on your everyday mask and spray some cologne. Can you smell it? How often do you touch your face since wearing a mask? Do you wash your hands before you touch your face? How about after you take off your mask - do you throw it away and get a fresh sterile one?
Check out 7:40
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFnUGSr3fw0
Post by: eyeeatingfish on August 30, 2021, 10:25:08 PM
Lie Hagi mentioned many times 1 hurricane going hit.
Then to add to the hypothetical, hpd has orders to confiscate all guns door to door so when tsunami does it, guns dont fall into the wrong hands. Would hpd do it? There is no natural disaster issued yet.
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
Having to wear a mask is not even comparable to gun confiscation.
I could have predicted Guy Hagi would be mentioned in reply but I don't think that is relevant. If the tsunami warning center says a tsunami is coming, which is the safer bet? That the tsunami warning center is trying to protect us and doing their best to give an accurate prediction despite not being a perfect science? OR that there is a big conspiracy to deny us our rights to go to the beach? You gonna stay seated at the beach because the one expert said so? Now consider, what if the expert was right and no tsunami came? Sucks to be sure as it ruined your plans but the alternative of if that expert was wrong could be widespread death.
So we have the government advising we wear masks and we have lab data showing masks should help reduce spread of covid but we also have a few experts saying masks don't work. Which is greater to potential loss of life if the masks do actually work or the potential inconvenience if the masks don't actually work?
Post by: eyeeatingfish on August 30, 2021, 10:35:26 PM
When does a liar ever have a good intention? And masks? It doesn't take a genius to figure out that very well may be the reason why we are at high infection rates. There is no standard for masks. No procedure to educate the public on proper donning of them. Simple test. Put on your everyday mask and spray some cologne. Can you smell it? How often do you touch your face since wearing a mask? Do you wash your hands before you touch your face? How about after you take off your mask - do you throw it away and get a fresh sterile one?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFnUGSr3fw0
When does a liar have a good intention? Dr Fauci's case would be a prime example. Protect the supply for the people who most need it (doctors, front line workers etc). I would have preferred an honest explanation but I also know that the honest explanation could have come with a run on masks by people who didn't need it.
Masks are not an all or nothing measure and people need to stop treating it like it is. If one guy dies with a seatbelt on does that prove seatbelts don't work? Of course not. If masks reduced the rate of spread by even 25% then the masks would still be having some effect. Masks are just one layer in an imperfect system to try and reduce the spread. Do we know exactly how effective masks are? No but we have data to show that there is reason to believe it does help some and it is minimally intrusive. Closing businesses , closing schools, requiring vaccines, is way more intrusive than saying we have to wear a piece of cloth over our faces.
The objections to not knowing how to put on masks seems a bit of a grasp to me. Obviously if I pick my nose then put my mask on my fingers could still spread the covid, this is not an argument against masks.
And yes they did release many videos showing people how to put masks on. And no, cologne would not be a good way to test if masks are effective, that just shows a lack of understanding. Masks that filter out particulates do not catch gaseous odors, you need special types of filters to do that. I wear a P100 (better than N95) mask when I woodwork and I still smell things.
Post by: hvybarrels on August 30, 2021, 11:12:47 PM
When someone pulls out the phrase "Common Sense" it is a tell that they are lying.
Gun Grabbers and Covid Commies use it all the time when the evidence contradicts them and they are forced to fall back on pure emotional manipulation.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on August 31, 2021, 08:30:57 PM
Masks that are not n95 are pretty much useless.
When someone pulls out the phrase "Common Sense" it is a tell that they are lying.
Gun Grabbers and Covid Commies use it all the time when the evidence contradicts them and they are forced to fall back on pure emotional manipulation.
Thats not what laboratory experiments show. Multiple tests showed that even just two layers of t-shirt fabric significantly reduced the water droplets which would carry the covid virus. Real world study may not find the effectiveness as high but even if masks only were 25% effective that would still be significant would it not? It would still be enough to require people to wear masks given that it is minimally invasive.
Post by: Glasser on August 31, 2021, 08:33:01 PM
Thats not what laboratory experiments show. Multiple tests showed that even just two layers of t-shirt fabric significantly reduced the water droplets which would carry the covid virus. Real world study may not find the effectiveness as high but even if masks only were 25% effective that would still be significant would it not? It would still be enough to require people to wear masks given that it is minimally invasive.
sorry droplets dont transfer COVID very well at all, it has to be aerosol, very different mechanism and physics.
https://seas.yale.edu/news-events/news/aerosols-vs-droplets-transmitting-covid-19-there-s-big-difference
masks can actually make sneezing and coughing become aerosol instead of staying droplets.
Post by: Glasser on August 31, 2021, 08:47:14 PM
When a Doctor was worried about GIVING you an infection. How they kept viri and bacteria IN.
(https://i.imgur.com/itaVB5M.jpg)
When a Doctor was worried about GETTING an infection from You. Keeping Viri and bacteria OUT.
(https://i.imgur.com/yPMVrbb.jpg)
very different PPE by design and its function.
You literally need a PAPR or Positive pressure filtered fresh air supply to keep Aerosols out.
Post by: omnigun on September 01, 2021, 10:06:14 AM
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 01, 2021, 10:09:46 AM
Post by: macsak on September 01, 2021, 11:29:43 AM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/09/01/masks-study-covid-bangladesh/
too bad you didn't read the whole study
masks have no effect AT ALL if 50 and under...
Post by: Glasser on September 01, 2021, 12:05:00 PM
If I start Tyvek-ing up and don my Full Face to go into Costco and then make a huge show of misting myself with a Hudson sprayer full of clorox before getting back in my truck do you think that will ratchet up the fear enough that the sheep will finally just say 'oh f*ck this sh*t' and stay home 24/7 in full catatonic panic?
I have all the stuff, wont cost a dime. If we can get all those people to go hide forever then maybe the rest of us can have the world back?
(https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-spvlr46b73/images/stencil/960w/products/3441/11059/apix9f6yb__79593.1621363678.jpg?c=1)
Post by: Glasser on September 01, 2021, 12:25:42 PM
Post by: hvybarrels on September 01, 2021, 12:32:38 PM
https://prescriptiondrugs.procon.org/fda-approved-prescription-drugs-later-pulled-from-the-market/
Post by: hvybarrels on September 02, 2021, 02:00:50 PM
https://twitter.com/HiDearZaki2/status/1433348011212541954
Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 02, 2021, 10:02:07 PM
sorry droplets dont transfer COVID very well at all, it has to be aerosol, very different mechanism and physics.
https://seas.yale.edu/news-events/news/aerosols-vs-droplets-transmitting-covid-19-there-s-big-difference
masks can actually make sneezing and coughing become aerosol instead of staying droplets.
Some masks did this, particularly the thin dry fast type fabrics but it seems like surgical masks and even homemade cloth masks can catch some of the aerosols. This should not be discounted as any significant reduction in the amount of aerosols expelled means a reduction in the total viral load being spread out. All this else equal the higher the viral load the more likely one is to get ill. So if you could half the amount of viruses entering your body (for example) you would still be in a better position.
As the video pointed out the aerosols can stay in the air and travel farther but they also have fewer of the viruses.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 02, 2021, 10:06:21 PM
Imagine the amount of calls to the police for inciting public panic if a bunch of people followed thru with the above scenario, imagine facing a judge that would somehow have to figure out a way to punish you for being 'too careful' when it comes to pandemic precautions....
I can't think how this would amount to any sort of crime. Inciting a public panic is not, in itself, a crime. Strapping road flares with wire and a clock would be a crime because it simulates a bomb but wearing excessive PPE would do no such thing.
People would stare, maybe someone would call police, costco might ask you to leave, but there would be no crime.
Post by: Glasser on September 02, 2021, 10:08:23 PM
As the video pointed out the aerosols can stay in the air and travel farther but they also have fewer of the viruses.
and the life span of virus in droplets in nothing, which is why they stopped telling you to wipe everything down with disinfectants more than a year ago. Its the build up of aerosols in confined areas over time and that exposure to high concentrations of viri that will cause you to get infected, which is why stay home lockdowns was literally the stupidest thing ever. Also coughing and sneezing into a mask makes what would be droplets into an aerosol.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 02, 2021, 10:09:29 PM
respiratory therapist who got messed up by the jab and has to take a bucket full of pills every day now
https://twitter.com/HiDearZaki2/status/1433348011212541954
That sucks of course but the real question is whether what happened to this guy represents a greater statistical threat than covid. I know a guy who was once saved by the fact he wasn't wearing a seat belt during a car accident but it wouldn't be right to conclude that therefore we shouldn't wear seatbelts. A seatbelt could kill people but statistically it is much more likely to save you than kill you.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 02, 2021, 10:13:52 PM
and the life span of virus in droplets in nothing, which is why they stopped telling you to wipe everything down with disinfectants more than a year ago. Its the build up of aerosols in confined areas over time and that exposure to high concentrations of viri that will cause you to get infected, which is why stay home lockdowns was literally the stupidest thing ever. Also coughing and sneezing into a mask makes what would be droplets into an aerosol.
I didn't see in the video any claim that virus lifespans in droplets were nothing, is there evidence of that somewhere else?
Even decent masks are going to reduce the aresols somewhat, but the thin dry fast type fabrics should be avoided.
Post by: hvybarrels on September 02, 2021, 11:11:13 PM
(https://s2.qwant.com/thumbr/700x0/6/c/4cc16a55c2380934246251622499699ccdb2121ea273a9a4a8dd776bc09940/8203e3bc9c61af633ee06238198d006e73d0194c.jpeg?u=https%3A%2F%2Fthepropertypin.com%2Fuploads%2Fdefault%2Foriginal%2F2X%2F8%2F8203e3bc9c61af633ee06238198d006e73d0194c.jpeg&q=0&b=1&p=0&a=0)
Post by: Glasser on September 02, 2021, 11:15:28 PM
COVID infects you via nasal mucosa, you have to build up enough of a viral load in your nasal passages for it to take.
So maybe if someone coughs big puddles in a dark cold room and you wiped a lot of it up and stuffed it up your nose you might contract it that way ... but that sounds like a lot of work.
it just doesnt really happen that way in the real world. They tried hard for a year to prove you could pick it up off of surfaces, but that never panned out.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on September 02, 2021, 11:21:36 PM
Nothing to see here. All is well. Move along.
That's just through May 1st. In other words, that's comparing the first 4 months of 2021 (1/3 of the year) to 12-months of stats in all other years.
If we extrapolate the next 8 months from the first 4, the number in 2021 will grow from to around 10,227.
Post by: omnigun on September 03, 2021, 06:32:42 AM
That's just through May 1st. In other words, that's comparing the first 4 months of 2021 (1/3 of the year) to 12-months of stats in all other years.
If we extrapolate the next 8 months from the first 4, the number in 2021 will grow from to around 10,227.
I wonder how many covid deaths there were in that time.... oh yeah... way more than the vaccine "caused" deaths.
Post by: RSN172 on September 03, 2021, 07:32:24 AM
What happens if the sane people stop pushing back on all the stupidity and just lean into it really hard?
If I start Tyvek-ing up and don my Full Face to go into Costco and then make a huge show of misting myself with a Hudson sprayer full of clorox before getting back in my truck do you think that will ratchet up the fear enough that the sheep will finally just say 'oh f*ck this sh*t' and stay home 24/7 in full catatonic panic?
I have all the stuff, wont cost a dime. If we can get all those people to go hide forever then maybe the rest of us can have the world back?
(https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-spvlr46b73/images/stencil/960w/products/3441/11059/apix9f6yb__79593.1621363678.jpg?c=1)
That mask has an exhalation valve. No qualify for proper Covid protocol.
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 03, 2021, 08:54:39 AM
Post by: hvybarrels on September 03, 2021, 09:50:01 AM
Over protected, cloth mask is all that's needed for the deadliest virus in recent history.
and a mandatory experimental drug that probably won't kill you right away
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on September 03, 2021, 02:42:38 PM
and a mandatory experimental drug that probably won't kill you right away
If you die in 10 years from cancer or heart attack, at least it won't be from COVID.
Can't have your cake and eat it, too.
Post by: hvybarrels on September 03, 2021, 03:07:37 PM
If you die in 10 years from cancer or heart attack, at least it won't be from COVID.
Can't have your cake and eat it, too.
Or have to take expensive medicine for the rest of your life because of blood clots
Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 04, 2021, 09:08:15 AM
and a mandatory experimental drug that probably won't kill you right away
The chances that there will be side effects from the vaccine years from now are exceedingly small. Vaccine side effects nearly always happen within weeks or a couple months of getting the vaccine. The more time that passes the smaller and smaller the chances are that it will somehow kill you.
Post by: ren on September 04, 2021, 09:15:38 AM
The chances that there will be side effects from the vaccine years from now are exceedingly small. Vaccine side effects nearly always happen within weeks or a couple months of getting the vaccine. The more time that passes the smaller and smaller the chances are that it will somehow kill you.
source of that statement?
Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 04, 2021, 09:16:40 AM
Nothing to see here. All is well. Move along.
(https://s2.qwant.com/thumbr/700x0/6/c/4cc16a55c2380934246251622499699ccdb2121ea273a9a4a8dd776bc09940/8203e3bc9c61af633ee06238198d006e73d0194c.jpeg?u=https%3A%2F%2Fthepropertypin.com%2Fuploads%2Fdefault%2Foriginal%2F2X%2F8%2F8203e3bc9c61af633ee06238198d006e73d0194c.jpeg&q=0&b=1&p=0&a=0)
Keep in mind that VAERS is not a scientific analysis listing deaths known to have been caused by the vaccine, it is merely a list of reports of deaths correlated with the vaccine. Doctors are supposed to report but any regular person can as well. So for example maybe someone got the vaccine and died a month later from a heart attack. Did the vaccine cause the heart attack or was the person just destined to have a heart attack that day anyway? They don't know at that point.
The point of VAERS is to get as much data as possible on vaccines so they can spot potential side effects early. They did this with the J&J vaccine, they spotted a number of people having strokes and they halted the vaccine until they could look at the data to see if there was any causality. I think that with all the attention the covid vaccine was getting that one would expect reporting to go up. Heck I didn't know what VAERS was until it got attention with the covid vaccine.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 04, 2021, 09:18:34 AM
source of that statement?
Fair enough, gotta dig for it, read it long ago.....
This wasn't the source I originally read it from but it seems to go over the same thing.
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/vaccines-are-highly-unlikely-to-cause-side-effects-long-after-getting-the-shot-
Post by: ren on September 04, 2021, 09:34:48 AM
The chances that there will be side effects from the vaccine years from now are exceedingly small. Vaccine side effects nearly always happen within weeks or a couple months of getting the vaccine. The more time that passes the smaller and smaller the chances are that it will somehow kill you.
Author is a freelance "novelist"
https://www.linkedin.com/in/meryldavids (https://www.linkedin.com/in/meryldavids)
Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 04, 2021, 09:39:57 AM
Author is a freelance "novelist"
https://www.linkedin.com/in/meryldavids (https://www.linkedin.com/in/meryldavids)
So?
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 04, 2021, 09:50:07 AM
Keep in mind that VAERS is not a scientific analysis listing deaths known to have been caused by the vaccine, it is merely a list of reports of deaths correlated with the vaccine. Doctors are supposed to report but any regular person can as well. So for example maybe someone got the vaccine and died a month later from a heart attack. Did the vaccine cause the heart attack or was the person just destined to have a heart attack that day anyway? They don't know at that point.U are wrong, according to 1 person here, VAERS is a virus and has a vaccine for it.
The point of VAERS is to get as much data as possible on vaccines so they can spot potential side effects early. They did this with the J&J vaccine, they spotted a number of people having strokes and they halted the vaccine until they could look at the data to see if there was any causality. I think that with all the attention the covid vaccine was getting that one would expect reporting to go up. Heck I didn't know what VAERS was until it got attention with the covid vaccine.
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
Post by: Glasser on September 04, 2021, 09:51:14 AM
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/70/44/bf/7044bfc88314c3759c9f593d78e86c24.jpg)
Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 05, 2021, 09:21:21 PM
Umm you might want to forget NatGeo as a source for anything anymore, they went off the deep end a while back. they have been pushing Racism is everywhere and a public Health Crisis and a bunch of other Marxist Pop Culture idiocy over the past 5 yrs.
There were other sources and as I stated it wasn't the original one, it just was the first one that popper up in my search. Not like National Geo did the research themselves anyway. Plus even if they went all woke on racism it doesn't mean they would just make up stuff about vaccines.
Post by: drck1000 on September 07, 2021, 07:32:44 AM
Post by: hvybarrels on September 07, 2021, 01:05:19 PM
We might have to move this topic to preparedness/survival soon
https://thecovidblog.com/
Post by: omnigun on September 07, 2021, 01:12:23 PM
Here' s a running list of people who died from bad reactions to the vaccine. At lot of these cases their families were told not to mention their stories to the media.
We might have to move this topic to preparedness/survival soon
https://thecovidblog.com/
Would have a website for those who died from covid but the list would be too long. Site looks like fakenews. rofl
Post by: hvybarrels on September 07, 2021, 04:38:00 PM
https://thecovidblog.com/2021/09/02/eve-dale-20-year-old-british-woman-went-from-normal-fun-young-girl-to-having-full-body-convulsions-unable-to-walk-24-hours-after-second-pfizer-mrna-injection/
(https://thecovidblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/Eve-Dale-August-28.png)
Post by: Jl808 on September 07, 2021, 04:59:20 PM
https://www.bitchute.com/video/LtdOBCrdSYPM/
Post by: omnigun on September 07, 2021, 05:22:56 PM
Geert Vanden Bossche, world reknowned vaccine creator, issue a warning on the C19 vaccination, calling it a “public health emergency of international concern”. C19 vaccination destroys your innate immune system.
https://www.bitchute.com/video/LtdOBCrdSYPM/
"C19 vaccination destroys your innate immune system" lol
Must explain why hundreds of millions are getting sick right now cause of no immune system...oh wait.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 07, 2021, 07:46:53 PM
Just because a perceived reputable or widely known source says something, doesn't make it so. That's what folks need to be aware of stuff that's more opinion columns than news. So many times the facts are spun with so much opinion and often when digging further, one can usually find that those opinion column folks conveniently leave out critical information that doesn't fit their opinion. It's like they are counting on folks to just read the headline and maybe a couple of paragraphs in, maybe. But no, the media would nevar do that. Right. . .
Its always interesting that I see this objection raised when the "experts" are saying things the person doesn't want to believe but when it is something they do want to believe its received without question, like the Geert Vanden Bossche dude. This is a general observations, I see this frequently on both sides of the political aisle.
Post by: drck1000 on September 07, 2021, 07:51:31 PM
Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 07, 2021, 07:51:54 PM
Here' s a running list of people who died from bad reactions to the vaccine. At lot of these cases their families were told not to mention their stories to the media.
We might have to move this topic to preparedness/survival soon
https://thecovidblog.com/
From bad reactions to the vaccine or who have experienced a medical problem after getting the vaccine? As the addage goes, correlation does not prove causation.
I am sure a certain number of adverse reactions are happening but it would be wrong to think every health problem that coincides with a vaccine does was caused by the vaccine. The first thing to do is look at the rate of a particular health problem after vaccines and compare that to the same health problem among someone from that same age/class/etc group in a normal year.
Secondly is whether the rate of serious side effects makes the vaccine more dangerous than covid. So far the available data shows that the covid vaccine is still far safer than catching covid. Given that it is a risk assessment, and you choose the lower risk option.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 07, 2021, 07:53:38 PM
What objection did I raise?
Casting doubt on whatever we are told by default.
Post by: drck1000 on September 07, 2021, 07:56:50 PM
Casting doubt on whatever we are told by default.So free thinking and finding out for one’s self is bad?
Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 07, 2021, 07:56:56 PM
Geert Vanden Bossche, world reknowned vaccine creator, issue a warning on the C19 vaccination, calling it a “public health emergency of international concern”. C19 vaccination destroys your innate immune system.
https://www.bitchute.com/video/LtdOBCrdSYPM/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEyQi__zTuo&t=880s
Post by: Glasser on September 07, 2021, 07:57:49 PM
Others peoples health is none of your damn business.
If you are so convinced the vaxx is the answer than you are safe arent you?
And you can go back to minding your own business cant you?
Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 07, 2021, 08:01:54 PM
So free thinking and finding out for one’s self is bad?
When it is done unevenly, sure.
It isn't that I trust the media all the time but I try not to cast doubt just on sources that might contradict my position or conception. Sure, the media can misinform us whether intentionally, negligently, or through no fault of their own but I don't just toss it all out the window either. A good news source will link to the original report. When it came to the information about vaccine side effects happening mostly shortly after being given the dose I read about it and heard a doctor explain it, it wasn't just some headline. I try to avoid headlines because they are so often misleading.
Post by: drck1000 on September 07, 2021, 08:05:22 PM
Anyways, carry on…
Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 07, 2021, 08:09:07 PM
Your health is your business, godspeed to you.
Others peoples health is none of your damn business.
If you are so convinced the vaxx is the answer than you are safe arent you?
And you can go back to minding your own business cant you?
I would never force a vaccine upon anyone but when choices start to affect others it kind of becomes other people's business doesn't it?
If I decided to burn tires in my back yard do I get to tell me neighbors to mind their own business when the smoke blows into their yard? When hospitals get overloaded because of unvaccinated covid patients and I can't get needed medical attention then it isn't just a person making their own health decision but not affecting anyone else.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 07, 2021, 08:10:07 PM
So where was I casting doubt? I just said be weary of opinion piece masquerading as news. Nothing to do with politics. At all….
Anyways, carry on…
Fair enough, I thought you were trying to rebut my comment above yours. If not then my bad.
Post by: Glasser on September 07, 2021, 08:14:47 PM
I would never force a vaccine upon anyone but when choices start to affect others it kind of becomes other people's business doesn't it?
You either believe the vaxx will save you from serious illness or you dont. If it will protect you than you have ZERO worry of someone else taking away life saving care from you.
Pick one, you either believe you are safe and you have no worries, or you are worried it doesnt work as advertised and you are in the same boat as the unvaxxed.
You cant have it both ways.
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 07, 2021, 08:14:59 PM
When it is done unevenly, sure.We covered this in the covid thread, but basically why should 1 trust the lying media now when for the past 5 years they made stuff up. Russia, ukraine, sex assault, etc....The boy who cried wolf example.
It isn't that I trust the media all the time but I try not to cast doubt just on sources that might contradict my position or conception. Sure, the media can misinform us whether intentionally, negligently, or through no fault of their own but I don't just toss it all out the window either. A good news source will link to the original report. When it came to the information about vaccine side effects happening mostly shortly after being given the dose I read about it and heard a doctor explain it, it wasn't just some headline. I try to avoid headlines because they are so often misleading.
Then why trust gov agencies who have and can be weaponized against trump supporters. Flynn, Stone, etc...
This is why myself and others dont trust whats being told on TV. Then add in the cdc being wrong multiple times. And the excuse for them is cause covid is new. So they can make no mistakes nor be held accountable.
I wont get too much into it here due to it being covered already, feel free to read the covid thread for more details. Idk exactly where.
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Post by: changemyoil66 on September 07, 2021, 08:17:26 PM
I would never force a vaccine upon anyone but when choices start to affect others it kind of becomes other people's business doesn't it?Sounds like u should be mad at the hospitals for not being more prepared. They only had a year to figure stuff out. But i guess to them, $ is more important. No blame on them i guess. Big guys get a pass again.
If I decided to burn tires in my back yard do I get to tell me neighbors to mind their own business when the smoke blows into their yard? When hospitals get overloaded because of unvaccinated covid patients and I can't get needed medical attention then it isn't just a person making their own health decision but not affecting anyone else.
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Post by: macsak on September 07, 2021, 08:18:34 PM
So where was I casting doubt? I just said be weary of opinion piece masquerading as news. Nothing to do with politics. At all….
Anyways, carry on…
did you go to a reputable school too?
Post by: drck1000 on September 07, 2021, 08:20:47 PM
did you go to a reputable school too?Didn’t go skool
Post by: Glasser on September 07, 2021, 08:24:33 PM
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 07, 2021, 08:31:39 PM
I would never force a vaccine upon anyone but when choices start to affect others it kind of becomes other people's business doesn't it?Sounds like u should give up all your personal guns, cause there is a 0.0000001% chance a thief could steal ur entire safe and the guns be used for bad. This affects others. We covered this already with omni because he felt a vaxx is worth it even if it helps very little or the risk is very small.
If I decided to burn tires in my back yard do I get to tell me neighbors to mind their own business when the smoke blows into their yard? When hospitals get overloaded because of unvaccinated covid patients and I can't get needed medical attention then it isn't just a person making their own health decision but not affecting anyone else.
News flash, all choices affect others. So to say that x has to be done because it affects others is BS.
How many car accidents have u seen where 1 second could have avoided it.
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Post by: macsak on September 07, 2021, 08:40:17 PM
I am glad macsak wasnt grading my papers or I would still be attending Kailua High today.
#notarealteacher
Post by: Glasser on September 07, 2021, 08:43:50 PM
#notarealteacher
Now now, just because your pet project OmniNumb has a learning disability and is unreachable doesnt mean you have nothing to teach.
Post by: drck1000 on September 07, 2021, 08:46:13 PM
#notarealteacher#waytoomuchtimeonhishands
Post by: drck1000 on September 07, 2021, 08:47:34 PM
Now now, just because your pet project OmniNumb has a learning disability and is unreachable doesnt mean you have nothing to teach.If only had firearms, ammo, or anything interesting.
Post by: omnigun on September 07, 2021, 08:54:59 PM
Vaccine helps more than a little and death rate is not flu level. Covid will kill you more often than any gun violence.
Post by: Glasser on September 07, 2021, 08:57:24 PM
Post by: macsak on September 07, 2021, 09:04:00 PM
#fakenews
Vaccine helps more than a little and death rate is not flu level. Covid will kill you more often than any gun violence.
"covid" was responsible for something like 4% of "covid-related" deaths...
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 07, 2021, 09:05:11 PM
Try again Dip Wad. Check the numbers, you have a much better chance of dying in a car accident than from COVID. FBI stats for gun violence are ultra low. keep being stupid and making things up. Choke your chicken to Facebook and stay retarded Dumbass.Dont 4get the deck is stacked.
Dies from meteorite hit...covid related.
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Post by: Glasser on September 07, 2021, 09:07:30 PM
"covid" was responsible for something like 4% of "covid-related" deaths...
Irony is cause of death listed for almost everyone pre-Covid was literally 'Heart Stopped'. How is now any different Bat Flu or not?
Post by: hvybarrels on September 07, 2021, 09:34:49 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEyQi__zTuo&t=880s
Am I really supposed to be persuaded by a smarmy condescending propagandist who specializes in character assassination?
Come on bro, you're really scraping the bottom of the barrel here
Post by: aletheuo137 on September 08, 2021, 03:14:34 AM
So where was I casting doubt? I just said be weary of opinion piece masquerading as news. Nothing to do with politics. At all….Everything is opinion IMHO. Follow the money because the so called experts will say what the people funding them pay for. Lately it's more paid for opinions than expert reporting. You'll hear what you want to hear. Myself included!
Anyways, carry on…
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Post by: omnigun on September 08, 2021, 06:57:37 AM
Try again Dip Wad. Check the numbers, you have a much better chance of dying in a car accident than from COVID. FBI stats for gun violence are ultra low. keep being stupid and making things up. Choke your chicken to Facebook and stay retarded Dumbass.
You wear seat belts? Or da statistics of car crash 2 low. God gave you those impact absorbing body parts.
Post by: omnigun on September 08, 2021, 06:58:52 AM
Post by: drck1000 on September 08, 2021, 07:25:26 AM
Everything is opinion IMHO. Follow the money because the so called experts will say what the people funding them pay for. Lately it's more paid for opinions than expert reporting. You'll hear what you want to hear. Myself included!Like anything in life, there are ranges to the extremes. Folks like Michael W Perry who flat out inject his views before reporting the news is ::) Even speaking to experts themselves, one should at least think about the context and where that person is coming from. A really good friend is in immunology and her PhD is in the MNRA stuff, but she's working on a different condition. She knows many of the folks who are cited personally and she mentioned even questioning those folks face-to-face at times at what or why they were reporting things a certain way.
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And, just because they may be on the same side of the issue/argument, doesn't make them automatically credible. However, there are definitely "articles" out there that are 99.99% opinion, and folks start parroting them as fact. Again, doesn't matter what side, political spectrum, etc, you are. Personally, I think locally Civil Beat is one of the worst. I would loop HNN in there as bad, but they just have bad reporting overall.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 08, 2021, 08:37:21 PM
Am I really supposed to be persuaded by a smarmy condescending propagandist who specializes in character assassination?
Come on bro, you're really scraping the bottom of the barrel here
If that is what you think about him that just shows you really don't know him very well. Go watch some of his other videos. I didn't post that video just because he speaks out against Dr. Bossche, I posted the video because he has a track record of being objective and nuanced and therefore can give a fair assessment of what Dr. Bossche is saying.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 08, 2021, 08:43:05 PM
You either believe the vaxx will save you from serious illness or you dont. If it will protect you than you have ZERO worry of someone else taking away life saving care from you.
That doesn't make any sense. If I believe vaccines work but the hospitals are overcrowded by the unvaccinated then it does affect whether I get life saving care.
I found out I had skin cancer right about the beginning of covid. Luckily it was something taken care of in a regular doctor's office but what if it had been more serious where I had to be admitted but there were no beds? I went shooting with a surgeon and he told me of a lady who was turned away from surgery due to covid and when she came back the tumor had already spread and she would likely die. There were no vaccines at the time so unfortunately it was unavoidable for her.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 08, 2021, 08:52:40 PM
We covered this in the covid thread, but basically why should 1 trust the lying media now when for the past 5 years they made stuff up. Russia, ukraine, sex assault, etc....The boy who cried wolf example.
Then why trust gov agencies who have and can be weaponized against trump supporters. Flynn, Stone, etc...
This is why myself and others dont trust whats being told on TV. Then add in the cdc being wrong multiple times. And the excuse for them is cause covid is new. So they can make no mistakes nor be held accountable.
I wont get too much into it here due to it being covered already, feel free to read the covid thread for more details. Idk exactly where.
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Why should we trust the media after years of lies? A perfectly fair and valid point. But we don't have to trust the media, we can verify. Look into the data and see if they match what is being reported. Find explanations that add context to help digest the data instead of just listening to some politician spin of the data.
The problem that bothers me is when this lack of trust only rears its head when looking at the opposition. People who say they don't trust Doctors but suddenly find the one guy saying vaccines are bad and take that message without question. They don't trust the media except when it is someone supporting their position.
Combining replies:
Could hospitals have been more prepared? Maybe a little but its not like its just a matter of buying more supplies. More beds, more staff, more space, etc. there is a lot of logistics. And even if we somehow point to hospitals saying that they didn't prepare well enough that really changes nothing when it comes to a full hospital deciding who to admit and who to turn away. Arguments about blame don't solve hospital crowding, a hospital will be forced to decide how to triage.
If we were neighbors would you have a problem with me deciding to burn tires? What if I told you I didn't trust the media that told me burning rubber fumes are bad for you? I could tell you mind your own business and buy a fan to push the smoke away if you don't like it.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 08, 2021, 09:05:40 PM
"covid" was responsible for something like 4% of "covid-related" deaths...
Proof?
Post by: ren on September 08, 2021, 09:22:35 PM
If we were neighbors would you have a problem with me deciding to burn tires? What if I told you I didn't trust the media that told me burning rubber fumes are bad for you? I could tell you mind your own business and buy a fan to push the smoke away if you don't like it.
that's illegal
Post by: macsak on September 08, 2021, 10:28:12 PM
Proof?
oops, i was wrong
it was 6%
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/health_policy/covid19-comorbidity-expanded-12092020-508.pdf
Post by: aletheuo137 on September 09, 2021, 03:09:59 AM
oops, i was wrongOff by 2%. We'll tar & feather you later!
it was 6%
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/health_policy/covid19-comorbidity-expanded-12092020-508.pdf
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Post by: macsak on September 09, 2021, 06:01:47 AM
Off by 2%. We'll tar & feather you later!
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well, i did say "something like 4%"
goalpost---------->moved
Post by: aletheuo137 on September 09, 2021, 06:46:30 AM
well, i did say "something like 4%"Moved to the Jersey Shore!
goalpost---------->moved
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Post by: Glasser on September 09, 2021, 07:11:47 AM
Also they found out that using Listerine brand mouthwash is very effective and interrupts the virus getting established in your mucosa. Also nasal lavages work very well.
(https://c.tenor.com/zcuyUXqfXRoAAAAd/woman-wtf.gif)
Taking monoclonal antibodies after infection stops COVID completely.
Post by: drck1000 on September 09, 2021, 07:16:56 AM
Moved to the Jersey Shore!GTL
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Post by: omnigun on September 09, 2021, 07:43:28 AM
listened to Adam & Dr Drew yesterday. The best, most recent mask study with 600,000 participants. Cloth mask 0% effectiveness, properly fitted and worn n95 ... 9% effective.
Also they found out that using Listerine brand mouthwash is very effective and interrupts the virus getting established in your mucosa. Also nasal lavages work very well.
(https://c.tenor.com/zcuyUXqfXRoAAAAd/woman-wtf.gif)
Taking monoclonal antibodies after infection stops COVID completely.
Wasn't conservatives against that? Cause baby parts? Hypocrites they should accept death or keep to horse pills. Or actually come out and support stem cells like smart people.
Post by: Glasser on September 09, 2021, 07:52:11 AM
its just the cheapest way and planned parenthood would go broke if they werent selling body parts.
Post by: Glasser on September 09, 2021, 08:23:26 AM
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 09, 2021, 08:36:23 AM
Is burning tires in ur yard legal?
Why should we trust the media after years of lies? A perfectly fair and valid point. But we don't have to trust the media, we can verify. Look into the data and see if they match what is being reported. Find explanations that add context to help digest the data instead of just listening to some politician spin of the data.
The problem that bothers me is when this lack of trust only rears its head when looking at the opposition. People who say they don't trust Doctors but suddenly find the one guy saying vaccines are bad and take that message without question. They don't trust the media except when it is someone supporting their position.
Combining replies:
Could hospitals have been more prepared? Maybe a little but its not like its just a matter of buying more supplies. More beds, more staff, more space, etc. there is a lot of logistics. And even if we somehow point to hospitals saying that they didn't prepare well enough that really changes nothing when it comes to a full hospital deciding who to admit and who to turn away. Arguments about blame don't solve hospital crowding, a hospital will be forced to decide how to triage.
If we were neighbors would you have a problem with me deciding to burn tires? What if I told you I didn't trust the media that told me burning rubber fumes are bad for you? I could tell you mind your own business and buy a fan to push the smoke away if you don't like it.
Say for arguments sake it is legal. There is a diff between me asking u to stop and someone who lives 1 hour away, who u dont know and asking u to stop because they heard from a friend who heard from a crackhead, who heard from me that its bothering me.
Or lets say u plan on burning it, but havent yet and havent for 2 years. Then i call the cops. Can they arrest u or issue a citation because u might burn tires? Like how someone might catch covid. 1 has to catch it first, then need hospital care in order to affect the hospital #s.
Like we covered already, many other countries data conflicts with the main US info. So either they are all wrong, or we are.
Bet WMDs were real too right? Fool me once...
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Post by: changemyoil66 on September 09, 2021, 08:37:00 AM
well, i did say "something like 4%"First time move is free. Pro bono.
goalpost---------->moved
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Post by: omnigun on September 09, 2021, 08:42:22 AM
dead babies isnt the only way to get stem cells you ignorant retard.
its just the cheapest way and planned parenthood would go broke if they werent selling body parts.
Its the best way. And I still remember conservatives quoting that and complaining. What now? Will anyone admit they were wrong?
Planned Parenthood should sell plenty then we get a bunch of scientific breakthroughs.
Post by: omnigun on September 09, 2021, 08:44:20 AM
Funny how retards demand their Starbucks use 'Ethically Sourced' coffee beans but don't give a sh*t where the stem cells came from.
Its from fetus's, so probably many of those people also don't think its a human. Also not everyone gives a shit about Ethically sourced, something something about assumptions.
You must really be ignorant of anyone that isn't a conservative. Democrats or independents are not all vegan, gender non specific, social justice warriors.
Post by: Rocky on September 09, 2021, 09:00:17 AM
oops, i was wrong#Notastatistician
it was 6%
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/health_policy/covid19-comorbidity-expanded-12092020-508.pdf
:wave:
Post by: drck1000 on September 09, 2021, 09:08:07 AM
#NotastatisticianNo mass "covid-related" deaths...
:wave:
Post by: aieahound on September 09, 2021, 09:18:08 AM
Its from fetus's, so probably many of those people also don't think its a human. Also not everyone gives a shit about Ethically sourced, something something about assumptions.
You must really be ignorant of anyone that isn't a conservative. Democrats or independents are not all vegan, gender non specific, social justice warriors.
Am I missing something ?
“ In a statement to NBC News, Regeneron spokesperson Alexandra Bowie said that the company used cells from a cell line called HEK293T. These cells date back to the 1970s and were originally taken from kidney cells in donated fetal tissue. Since then, the cells have become commonplace in research labs, thanks in part to the fact that they can replicate indefinitely, ensuring they never run out. Because of this, the cells are considered “immortalized.”
“HEK293T wasn’t used in any other way, and fetal tissue was not used in this research,” Bowie said. “We did not use human stem cells or human embryonic stem cells in the development of” the monoclonal antibody cocktail.”
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/how-cells-taken-decades-old-fetal-tissue-are-used-covid-n1242740
Post by: omnigun on September 09, 2021, 09:22:16 AM
Am I missing something ?
“ In a statement to NBC News, Regeneron spokesperson Alexandra Bowie said that the company used cells from a cell line called HEK293T. These cells date back to the 1970s and were originally taken from kidney cells in donated fetal tissue. Since then, the cells have become commonplace in research labs, thanks in part to the fact that they can replicate indefinitely, ensuring they never run out. Because of this, the cells are considered “immortalized.”
“HEK293T wasn’t used in any other way, and fetal tissue was not used in this research,” Bowie said. “We did not use human stem cells or human embryonic stem cells in the development of” the monoclonal antibody cocktail.”
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/how-cells-taken-decades-old-fetal-tissue-are-used-covid-n1242740
In the early times of the treatment, there were conservatives against it because of its origin. Ignorant of the actual science and everything.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/08/health/trump-covid-fetal-tissue.html
https://ipscell.com/2020/10/trump-gop-hypocrisy-on-regeneron-covid-19-stem-cell-work/
Post by: macsak on September 09, 2021, 11:47:02 AM
Its from fetus's, so probably many of those people also don't think its a human. Also not everyone gives a shit about Ethically sourced, something something about assumptions.
You must really be ignorant of anyone that isn't a conservative. Democrats or independents are not all vegan, gender non specific, social justice warriors.
says the guy that paints all conservatives with one broad stroke
hypocrite much?
i'll ignore "fetus's" and "ignorant of anyone"...
Post by: aletheuo137 on September 09, 2021, 12:00:07 PM
says the guy that paints all conservatives with one broad strokeYou would be better off banging your head against a wall!
hypocrite much?
i'll ignore "fetus's" and "ignorant of anyone"...
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Post by: drck1000 on September 09, 2021, 12:02:30 PM
You would be better off banging your head against a wall!I'd pay to see that! ;D
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Post by: aieahound on September 09, 2021, 12:07:47 PM
https://youtu.be/gZimA1jW4as
Post by: omnigun on September 09, 2021, 12:33:06 PM
says the guy that paints all conservatives with one broad stroke
hypocrite much?
i'll ignore "fetus's" and "ignorant of anyone"...
True, though I would argue republicans are more same think of many topics than any other group. And they run it as a party platform vs I've never seen veganism as a democrat talking point.
Also I do the same grouping for democrats but for different things. Like gun control etc.
TLDR I paint both parties with many broad strokes.
Post by: omnigun on September 09, 2021, 12:34:11 PM
Or getting in the nuts.
https://youtu.be/gZimA1jW4as
that guys lovers won't need an abortion :shaka:
Post by: drck1000 on September 09, 2021, 12:50:39 PM
Post by: aletheuo137 on September 09, 2021, 12:54:29 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210909/f99275db5a7eb5093cee0cabe94c8d72.jpg)Sent from my SM-A102U using Tapatalk
Post by: drck1000 on September 09, 2021, 02:50:02 PM
SNIPAnd the day ain't over yet. . .
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Post by: aletheuo137 on September 09, 2021, 02:59:58 PM
And the day ain't over yet. . .He's got 3 hours my time!
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Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 09, 2021, 08:02:20 PM
Is burning tires in ur yard legal?
Say for arguments sake it is legal. There is a diff between me asking u to stop and someone who lives 1 hour away, who u dont know and asking u to stop because they heard from a friend who heard from a crackhead, who heard from me that its bothering me.
Or lets say u plan on burning it, but havent yet and havent for 2 years. Then i call the cops. Can they arrest u or issue a citation because u might burn tires? Like how someone might catch covid. 1 has to catch it first, then need hospital care in order to affect the hospital #s.
Like we covered already, many other countries data conflicts with the main US info. So either they are all wrong, or we are.
Bet WMDs were real too right? Fool me once...
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The point of the tire burning question is just to illustrate that there are limits to freedoms when those freedoms start affecting other peoples. I don't think we could ever draw a clean line across all issues that would work universally so it certainly isn't something with a big glaring obvious correct answer.
I do totally understand the hesitation to believe the government on covid advice but lets say hypothetically that we could trust the government, that the vaccine was safe and effective. This would create a dilema on how to triage patients at a hospital. In this hypothetical if you lost a loved one to a curable condition because they couldn't get into the hospital due to excess unvaccinated covid patients, what would you think about that? Certainly it would be understandable that if you lost your child, for example, you might be very angry at the unvaccinated people.
And even if the vaccine isn't as safe or effective as we have been lead to believe we are still facing overcrowded hospitals where staff are going to have to decide who should be treated.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 09, 2021, 08:21:56 PM
oops, i was wrong
it was 6%
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/health_policy/covid19-comorbidity-expanded-12092020-508.pdf
I think people misunderstand just what these numbers mean and I think some have exploited this to give people the impression that covid isn't killing people, only the comorbidities are. The fact that comorbidities are so common doesn't mean that the covid didn't kill the person. If I had terminal cancer and someone shot me through the heart my death certificate might still say cancer even though obviously the bullet killed me. A lot of these comorbidities are things that probably wouldn't have killed the person or at least wouldn't have killed them for many years. Death certificates usually list all conditions a person has when they die, it isn't the doctor saying exactly what killed the person.
I have a heart condition, atrial fibrilation, but the heart doctor says it isn't something to worry about, puts no restrictions on my activities, and doesn't provide medication for it. But if I died with covid tomorrow people would say it wasn't covid because of the comorbidity even though the comorbidity shouldn't have killed me.
On top of that, some of the comorbidities are things caused by covid. So for example covid can cause pneumonia and on the death certificate both covid and pneumonia would be listed. Claiming that covid didn't kill the person the pneumonia must have would clearly be a flawed argument. Take a look at the list, it even mentions depressive episodes totaling about 1000 deaths. Am I supposed to think that the depression killed the person and not the covid?
But in the end what does it matter if only 6% of people are dying with only covid? Hospitals are still full, many more people are dying annually than non pandemic years, and it doesn't mean covid isn't a risk. It is still killing 1.6% of Americans who catch it and making about 5% (IIRC) of people who catch it serious ill. If the roller coaster operator told me that only 1 out of 100 riders died on the ride I wouldn't get on.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 09, 2021, 08:23:44 PM
that's illegal
Ok, so just pass a law requiring vaccine, vaccine passes, masks, etc and it will all be ok because then it is legal right?
The point of the question is not whether it is legal or illegal but whether it is something that should be allowed or disallowed because of the effect it has on people around you.
Post by: macsak on September 09, 2021, 08:33:15 PM
I think people misunderstand just what these numbers mean and I think some have exploited this to give people the impression that covid isn't killing people, only the comorbidities are. The fact that comorbidities are so common doesn't mean that the covid didn't kill the person. If I had terminal cancer and someone shot me through the heart my death certificate might still say cancer even though obviously the bullet killed me. A lot of these comorbidities are things that probably wouldn't have killed the person or at least wouldn't have killed them for many years. Death certificates usually list all conditions a person has when they die, it isn't the doctor saying exactly what killed the person.
I have a heart condition, atrial fibrilation, but the heart doctor says it isn't something to worry about, puts no restrictions on my activities, and doesn't provide medication for it. But if I died with covid tomorrow people would say it wasn't covid because of the comorbidity even though the comorbidity shouldn't have killed me.
On top of that, some of the comorbidities are things caused by covid. So for example covid can cause pneumonia and on the death certificate both covid and pneumonia would be listed. Claiming that covid didn't kill the person the pneumonia must have would clearly be a flawed argument. Take a look at the list, it even mentions depressive episodes totaling about 1000 deaths. Am I supposed to think that the depression killed the person and not the covid?
But in the end what does it matter if only 6% of people are dying with only covid? Hospitals are still full, many more people are dying annually than non pandemic years, and it doesn't mean covid isn't a risk. It is still killing 1.6% of Americans who catch it and making about 5% (IIRC) of people who catch it serious ill. If the roller coaster operator told me that only 1 out of 100 riders died on the ride I wouldn't get on.
in many countries, death numbers are lower than normal this year, because the vulnerable people that would have died this year were killed by covid-related death last year...
Post by: macsak on September 09, 2021, 08:35:09 PM
please show me where i stated otherwise any of those things you mention...
I think people misunderstand just what these numbers mean and I think some have exploited this to give people the impression that covid isn't killing people, only the comorbidities are. The fact that comorbidities are so common doesn't mean that the covid didn't kill the person. If I had terminal cancer and someone shot me through the heart my death certificate might still say cancer even though obviously the bullet killed me. A lot of these comorbidities are things that probably wouldn't have killed the person or at least wouldn't have killed them for many years. Death certificates usually list all conditions a person has when they die, it isn't the doctor saying exactly what killed the person.
I have a heart condition, atrial fibrilation, but the heart doctor says it isn't something to worry about, puts no restrictions on my activities, and doesn't provide medication for it. But if I died with covid tomorrow people would say it wasn't covid because of comorbidity even though the comorbidity shouldn't have killed me.
On top of that, some of the comorbidities are things caused by covid. So for example covid can cause pneumonia and on the death certificate both covid and pneumonia would be listed. Claiming that covid didn't kill the person the pneumonia must have would clearly be a flawed argument. Take a look at the list, it even mentions depressive episodes totaling about 1000 deaths. Am I supposed to think that the depression killed the person and not the covid?
But in the end what does it matter if only 6% of people are dying with only covid? Hospitals are still full, many more people are dying annually than non pandemic years, and it doesn't mean covid isn't a risk. It is still killing 1.6% of Americans who catch it and making about 5% (IIRC) of people who catch it serious ill. If the roller coaster operator told me that only 1 out of 100 riders died on the ride I wouldn't get on.
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 09, 2021, 08:37:02 PM
The point of the tire burning question is just to illustrate that there are limits to freedoms when those freedoms start affecting other peoples. I don't think we could ever draw a clean line across all issues that would work universally so it certainly isn't something with a big glaring obvious correct answer.
I do totally understand the hesitation to believe the government on covid advice but lets say hypothetically that we could trust the government, that the vaccine was safe and effective. This would create a dilema on how to triage patients at a hospital. In this hypothetical if you lost a loved one to a curable condition because they couldn't get into the hospital due to excess unvaccinated covid patients, what would you think about that? Certainly it would be understandable that if you lost your child, for example, you might be very angry at the unvaccinated people.
And even if the vaccine isn't as safe or effective as we have been lead to believe we are still facing overcrowded hospitals where staff are going to have to decide who should be treated.
I would blame the hospital for putting profit over saving lives. Or politics over lives. Like use of ivermectin and other treatments early on, instead of waiting till its so bad.
Unless they did everything possible. But i dont see the cafetrira closed off and extra beds out there.
We keep going in circles because u dont understand why i dont trust orgs who lied for the past 5 years. Its ur call if u want to trust them. But i dont. Like domestic violence, "he said he wont do it again, he promised".
Then we also have diff views on freedoms. What if u have to fire ur gun and miss and kill a child. Since the chance is not 0% should all hpd not use firearms? Other peoples lives matter.
So we dont keep going in circles, u got ur view on freedom and i have mine. We can leave it as that. Like how we disagree on red flag laws.
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Post by: changemyoil66 on September 09, 2021, 08:38:15 PM
Ok, so just pass a law requiring vaccine, vaccine passes, masks, etc and it will all be ok because then it is legal right?With this mentality, anything and everything can be banned. Because everything effects everyone.
The point of the question is not whether it is legal or illegal but whether it is something that should be allowed or disallowed because of the effect it has on people around you.
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Post by: hvybarrels on September 09, 2021, 09:05:16 PM
With this mentality, anything and everything can be banned. Because everything effects everyone.
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eyeamacommunist
Post by: Glasser on September 09, 2021, 09:06:32 PM
With this mentality, anything and everything can be banned. Because everything effects everyone.
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This used to be a thing. Instead people are getting talked into yet ANOTHER way to hate their neighbor with this fresh new scheme to pit people against each other
Meanwhile the politicians laugh you are falling for it and go about stuffing their pockets because you are looking the wrong way.
(https://quotefancy.com/media/wallpaper/1600x900/5230431-Abraham-Lincoln-Quote-Your-rights-end-where-my-nose-begins.jpg)
Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 10, 2021, 09:49:20 PM
in many countries, death numbers are lower than normal this year, because the vulnerable people that would have died this year were killed by covid-related death last year...
I wouldn't necessarily consider that a good thing.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 10, 2021, 09:53:50 PM
you asked for proof of my number, i provided it
please show me where i stated otherwise any of those things you mention...
I wasn't accusing you of making up the number, rather I wanted to see you bring in a source as an opening to bring in the context of what that number means and doesn't mean. I see people frequently using such numbers to suggest that covid isn't really killing people. Not saying you were doing that but I have seen others doing that.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 10, 2021, 10:06:13 PM
I would blame the hospital for putting profit over saving lives. Or politics over lives. Like use of ivermectin and other treatments early on, instead of waiting till its so bad.
Unless they did everything possible. But i dont see the cafetrira closed off and extra beds out there.
We keep going in circles because u dont understand why i dont trust orgs who lied for the past 5 years. Its ur call if u want to trust them. But i dont. Like domestic violence, "he said he wont do it again, he promised".
Then we also have diff views on freedoms. What if u have to fire ur gun and miss and kill a child. Since the chance is not 0% should all hpd not use firearms? Other peoples lives matter.
So we dont keep going in circles, u got ur view on freedom and i have mine. We can leave it as that. Like how we disagree on red flag laws.
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I completely understand the lack of trust but that has no bearing on whether hospitals will have to triage. I was asking you what you thought about how the triage should work, not whether you should be forced to get a vaccine. We both agree that no one should be forced to get a vaccine.
I disagree that the overcrowding is merely profit over lives but that is a separate issue.
Post by: macsak on September 10, 2021, 10:12:04 PM
I wouldn't necessarily consider that a good thing.
please show me where i said that was a good thing
the "all causes" death decrease this year almost equals the "covid related" death increase over the "all causes" death figure last year
meaning that the net 2020 plus 2021 "all causes" deaths are about where they were expected to be without "covid related" intervention...
Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 10, 2021, 10:13:56 PM
With this mentality, anything and everything can be banned. Because everything effects everyone.
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Seems like you are avoiding the question/issue with that reply. Should we never restrict anything then because it is a slippery slop to restricting everything?
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 10, 2021, 10:20:04 PM
Seems like you are avoiding the question/issue with that reply. Should we never restrict anything then because it is a slippery slop to restricting everything?We should restrict everything since it can affect others. Bananas especially cause someone can slip on a peel and fall and crack their head open.
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Post by: macsak on September 10, 2021, 10:26:23 PM
I wasn't accusing you of making up the number, rather I wanted to see you bring in a source as an opening to bring in the context of what that number means and doesn't mean. I see people frequently using such numbers to suggest that covid isn't really killing people. Not saying you were doing that but I have seen others doing that.
then why bring it up in response to my post?
Post by: macsak on September 10, 2021, 10:32:04 PM
I think people misunderstand just what these numbers mean and I think some have exploited this to give people the impression that covid isn't killing people, only the comorbidities are. The fact that comorbidities are so common doesn't mean that the covid didn't kill the person. If I had terminal cancer and someone shot me through the heart my death certificate might still say cancer even though obviously the bullet killed me. A lot of these comorbidities are things that probably wouldn't have killed the person or at least wouldn't have killed them for many years. Death certificates usually list all conditions a person has when they die, it isn't the doctor saying exactly what killed the person.
I have a heart condition, atrial fibrilation, but the heart doctor says it isn't something to worry about, puts no restrictions on my activities, and doesn't provide medication for it. But if I died with covid tomorrow people would say it wasn't covid because of the comorbidity even though the comorbidity shouldn't have killed me.
On top of that, some of the comorbidities are things caused by covid. So for example covid can cause pneumonia and on the death certificate both covid and pneumonia would be listed. Claiming that covid didn't kill the person the pneumonia must have would clearly be a flawed argument. Take a look at the list, it even mentions depressive episodes totaling about 1000 deaths. Am I supposed to think that the depression killed the person and not the covid?
But in the end what does it matter if only 6% of people are dying with only covid? Hospitals are still full, many more people are dying annually than non pandemic years, and it doesn't mean covid isn't a risk. It is still killing 1.6% of Americans who catch it and making about 5% (IIRC) of people who catch it serious ill. If the roller coaster operator told me that only 1 out of 100 riders died on the ride I wouldn't get on.
proof?
Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 10, 2021, 10:45:35 PM
please show me where i said that was a good thing
the "all causes" death decrease this year almost equals the "covid related" death increase over the "all causes" death figure last year
meaning that the net 2020 plus 2021 "all causes" deaths are about where they were expected to be without "covid related" intervention...
For a while (and maybe still?) there were people who believed covid wasn't real or that it was real but it wasn't killing everyone. The fact that the monthly average deaths rose significantly in America showed that even if covid wasn't killing people, something sure as heck was killing a lot more people than usual.
So are you saying that if you average 2021 total deaths and 2020 deaths it will equal the average death rate before the pandemic (roughly speaking)? Are you reasoning that therefore covid isn't actually killing people more on average? If not what are you concluding?
I looked at a number of graphs but I don't see anything suggesting that 2020 should have fewer deaths than an average year. I did see that covid deaths have been declining in 2020 though.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 10, 2021, 10:47:17 PM
We should restrict everything since it can affect others. Bananas especially cause someone can slip on a peel and fall and crack their head open.
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Youre avoiding the issue again.
Post by: macsak on September 10, 2021, 10:53:55 PM
For a while (and maybe still?) there were people who believed covid wasn't real or that it was real but it wasn't killing everyone. The fact that the monthly average deaths rose significantly in America showed that even if covid wasn't killing people, something sure as heck was killing a lot more people than usual.
So are you saying that if you average 2021 total deaths and 2020 deaths it will equal the average death rate before the pandemic (roughly speaking)? Are you reasoning that therefore covid isn't actually killing people more on average? If not what are you concluding?
I looked at a number of graphs but I don't see anything suggesting that 2020 should have fewer deaths than an average year. I did see that covid deaths have been declining in 2020 though.
please show me where i said that
Post by: macsak on September 10, 2021, 10:55:18 PM
For a while (and maybe still?) there were people who believed covid wasn't real or that it was real but it wasn't killing everyone. The fact that the monthly average deaths rose significantly in America showed that even if covid wasn't killing people, something sure as heck was killing a lot more people than usual.
So are you saying that if you average 2021 total deaths and 2020 deaths it will equal the average death rate before the pandemic (roughly speaking)? Are you reasoning that therefore covid isn't actually killing people more on average? If not what are you concluding?
I looked at a number of graphs but I don't see anything suggesting that 2020 should have fewer deaths than an average year. I did see that covid deaths have been declining in 2020 though.
please show me where i said that
Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 10, 2021, 11:06:11 PM
proof?
https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality This mentions 1.6% mortality rate
I cannot find a source that specifically states 5%, I think I may have heard that on the radio. I did find one source that showed a hospitalization rate of 2% but that was just for Indiana. Othere states may be higher but I can't find a national average yet.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33729203/
I found this that shows 20% one but it was was Feb to March 2020 which would likely skew numbers since it was right in the beginning.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1105402/covid-hospitalization-rates-us-by-age-group/
Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 10, 2021, 11:08:17 PM
please show me where i said that
I didn't say you were making that claim. Note that I specifically asked you to elaborate about certain comments because I didn't want to misunderstand or assume what you meant.
Post by: macsak on September 10, 2021, 11:18:08 PM
I didn't say you were making that claim. Note that I specifically asked you to elaborate about certain comments because I didn't want to misunderstand or assume what you meant.
then why didn't you just put the middle paragraph and skip the first and last?
i would have merely answered if you didn't try and pontificate in the beginning and the end...
Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 10, 2021, 11:21:17 PM
then why didn't you just put the middle paragraph and skip the first and last?
i would have merely answered if you didn't try and pontificate in the beginning and the end...
Wasn't pontificating anything. I like to include context, more detail the better.
Post by: macsak on September 10, 2021, 11:22:37 PM
https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality This mentions 1.6% mortality rate
I cannot find a source that specifically states 5%, I think I may have heard that on the radio. I did find one source that showed a hospitalization rate of 2% but that was just for Indiana. Othere states may be higher but I can't find a national average yet.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33729203/
I found this that shows 20% one but it was was Feb to March 2020 which would likely skew numbers since it was right in the beginning.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1105402/covid-hospitalization-rates-us-by-age-group/
there's a difference between "mortality rate" and "observed case fatality rate"...
Post by: macsak on September 10, 2021, 11:27:12 PM
Wasn't pontificating anything. I like to include context, more detail the better.
which one reads clearer and would encourage someone to reply?
For a while (and maybe still?) there were people who believed covid wasn't real or that it was real but it wasn't killing everyone. The fact that the monthly average deaths rose significantly in America showed that even if covid wasn't killing people, something sure as heck was killing a lot more people than usual.
So are you saying that if you average 2021 total deaths and 2020 deaths it will equal the average death rate before the pandemic (roughly speaking)? Are you reasoning that therefore covid isn't actually killing people more on average? If not what are you concluding?
I looked at a number of graphs but I don't see anything suggesting that 2020 should have fewer deaths than an average year. I did see that covid deaths have been declining in 2020 though.
OR
So are you saying that if you average 2021 total deaths and 2020 deaths it will equal the average death rate before the pandemic (roughly speaking)? Are you reasoning that therefore covid isn't actually killing people more on average? If not what are you concluding?
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 11, 2021, 12:09:08 AM
Youre avoiding the issue again.Read into what im saying. It answers ur question.
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Post by: groveler on September 11, 2021, 09:55:50 AM
Seems to fit here. I'd warn you about language, but I don't care if you are
offended. I wasn't, it is what I grew up around.
:popcorn:
Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 11, 2021, 07:04:59 PM
there's a difference between "mortality rate" and "observed case fatality rate"...
I'll admit I had to look up the difference between the two to find the difference. I was just using the term generally since I didn't know there was a specific difference. So I checked the Johns Hopkins website again to see whether it was listing mortality or case fatality. The 1.6% mentioned for the USA is the case fatality ratio.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 11, 2021, 07:10:58 PM
which one reads clearer and would encourage someone to reply?
For a while (and maybe still?) there were people who believed covid wasn't real or that it was real but it wasn't killing everyone. The fact that the monthly average deaths rose significantly in America showed that even if covid wasn't killing people, something sure as heck was killing a lot more people than usual.
So are you saying that if you average 2021 total deaths and 2020 deaths it will equal the average death rate before the pandemic (roughly speaking)? Are you reasoning that therefore covid isn't actually killing people more on average? If not what are you concluding?
I looked at a number of graphs but I don't see anything suggesting that 2020 should have fewer deaths than an average year. I did see that covid deaths have been declining in 2020 though.
OR
So are you saying that if you average 2021 total deaths and 2020 deaths it will equal the average death rate before the pandemic (roughly speaking)? Are you reasoning that therefore covid isn't actually killing people more on average? If not what are you concluding?
I don't know. My post covered three things total. The middle sentence alone would have addressed all the issues I felt were relevant.
The third line specifically was whether the data you seemed to be referencing to make the statement about averaging was accurate or not.
Post by: macsak on September 11, 2021, 07:42:12 PM
I'll admit I had to look up the difference between the two to find the difference. I was just using the term generally since I didn't know there was a specific difference. So I checked the Johns Hopkins website again to see whether it was listing mortality or case fatality. The 1.6% mentioned for the USA is the case fatality ratio.
now look up "infection fatality rate"...
Post by: macsak on September 11, 2021, 07:43:33 PM
I'll admit I had to look up the difference between the two to find the difference. I was just using the term generally since I didn't know there was a specific difference. So I checked the Johns Hopkins website again to see whether it was listing mortality or case fatality. The 1.6% mentioned for the USA is the case fatality ratio.
someone who strives to speak as carefully as you do should have not done that...
Post by: Lihikai on September 11, 2021, 08:26:54 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5qFwQhi0CI
Post by: omnigun on September 11, 2021, 08:53:51 PM
Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 12, 2021, 10:00:10 PM
someone who strives to speak as carefully as you do should have not done that...
Perhaps, but you don't know what you don't know until someone shows you.
I will look up "infection fatality rate" but what point are you getting at?
For anyone wanting to read the difference between CFR and IFR
https://www.who.int/news-room/commentaries/detail/estimating-mortality-from-covid-19
Post by: macsak on September 12, 2021, 10:11:56 PM
Perhaps, but you don't know what you don't know until someone shows you.
I will look up "infection fatality rate" but what point are you getting at?
For anyone wanting to read the difference between CFR and IFR
https://www.who.int/news-room/commentaries/detail/estimating-mortality-from-covid-19
i am getting at several things
you stated 1.6% as if 1.6% people who are infected by sars-cov2 die
you need to understand that the definition of "cases" was changed in 2020 to ONLY include positive tests
cases were previously defined as people who have tested positive AND showed symptoms
so the people that compare CFR of say the spanish flu to covid19 are not apples to apples
in addition the number of people "infected" by the virus is thought to be at least 4-10 times the amount of positive tests
also, as explained in your link, the CFR varies by time
the CFR is now much lower because we now know more about treatments and medications (and leaving out the whole hcq/ivm thing)
tldr- you cannot just throw out "1.6%" as evidence of how dangerous this virus is...
Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 13, 2021, 08:16:08 PM
i am getting at several things
you stated 1.6% as if 1.6% people who are infected by sars-cov2 die
you need to understand that the definition of "cases" was changed in 2020 to ONLY include positive tests
cases were previously defined as people who have tested positive AND showed symptoms
so the people that compare CFR of say the spanish flu to covid19 are not apples to apples
in addition the number of people "infected" by the virus is thought to be at least 4-10 times the amount of positive tests
also, as explained in your link, the CFR varies by time
the CFR is now much lower because we now know more about treatments and medications (and leaving out the whole hcq/ivm thing)
tldr- you cannot just throw out "1.6%" as evidence of how dangerous this virus is...
I think the CFR is used because it is an easier number to know where as the IFR has to presume how many cases there were based on other data. Its hard to know how many cases are simply unreported though there are probably a few ways you could look at other things to try and estimate the total cases. For example look at the rates when you have a testing surge or if they tested for antibodies.
I do take your point that a CFR could be misleading because it depends on test rates. Ex: if you only tested dead bodies then the CFR would seem like 100%. So if we assume that the actual number of infections was significantly higher than the documented case infections that would mean the CFR rate would most likely be higher than the true number. If the number of actual infections were twice what they were believed then this would mean a 0.8% IFR.
According to this meta study which looked at numbers from smaller studies around the country they found IFRs around America ranging from 0.2% to about 1.3% depending on location.
Honestly, since we have a vaccine and I am vaccinated I am not that worried about how dangerous covid is anymore, I am just concerned with ERs being overloaded. But if I weren't vaccinated, 1 our of 100 or even 0.5 out of a hundred still aren't odds I would be thrilled with taking.
Post by: macsak on September 13, 2021, 09:37:40 PM
I think the CFR is used because it is an easier number to know where as the IFR has to presume how many cases there were based on other data. Its hard to know how many cases are simply unreported though there are probably a few ways you could look at other things to try and estimate the total cases. For example look at the rates when you have a testing surge or if they tested for antibodies.
I do take your point that a CFR could be misleading because it depends on test rates. Ex: if you only tested dead bodies then the CFR would seem like 100%. So if we assume that the actual number of infections was significantly higher than the documented case infections that would mean the CFR rate would most likely be higher than the true number. If the number of actual infections were twice what they were believed then this would mean a 0.8% IFR.
According to this meta study which looked at numbers from smaller studies around the country they found IFRs around America ranging from 0.2% to about 1.3% depending on location.
Honestly, since we have a vaccine and I am vaccinated I am not that worried about how dangerous covid is anymore, I am just concerned with ERs being overloaded. But if I weren't vaccinated, 1 our of 100 or even 0.5 out of a hundred still aren't odds I would be thrilled with taking.
antibody studies in the US and around the world have found mid 80% prevalence of antibodies
which would make CFR/IFR significantly less than 1.6%...
Post by: hvybarrels on September 14, 2021, 07:03:25 AM
Honestly, since we have a vaccine and I am vaccinated I am not that worried about how dangerous covid is anymore, I am just concerned with ERs being overloaded. But if I weren't vaccinated, 1 our of 100 or even 0.5 out of a hundred still aren't odds I would be thrilled with taking.
You should be worried. The vaccines are rapidly losing effect which is exactly the pattern of ADE that they saw in every previous coronavirus vaccine trial right before the animals started dying. The next variant could be the pandemic of the vaccinated.
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 14, 2021, 09:19:06 AM
You should be worried. The vaccines are rapidly losing effect which is exactly the pattern of ADE that they saw in every previous coronavirus vaccine trial right before the animals started dying. The next variant could be the pandemic of the vaccinated.
Why do you think they want everyone vaxxed. That way you cannot blame the vaxx. If majority of vaxxed are getting sick compared to the unvaxxed, then a light bulb should go on. Like how majority of Israel positives/hospitalized/deaths are vaxxed.
Post by: omnigun on September 14, 2021, 11:38:26 AM
Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 14, 2021, 10:21:16 PM
antibody studies in the US and around the world have found mid 80% prevalence of antibodies
which would make CFR/IFR significantly less than 1.6%...
Trying to figure the math on this one. So about 80% of Americans tested for antibodies have antibodies which would mean that about 80% have either been vaccinated or have recovered from covid right? From what I just checked about 64% of Americans (elligible Americans?) have gotten vaccinated , so that would mean an additional 16% must have gotten antibodies from exposure to covid right? There have been about 41 million documented instances of covid from what I am reading. I can't tell how we should interpret that number you are citing, what variables I don't know to calculate. How do we know determine the actual infection rate instead of just the confirmed case rate?
Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 14, 2021, 10:27:53 PM
You should be worried. The vaccines are rapidly losing effect which is exactly the pattern of ADE that they saw in every previous coronavirus vaccine trial right before the animals started dying. The next variant could be the pandemic of the vaccinated.
From what I have been looking at I wouldn't say they are rapidly losing effect. The effect in the real world is lower than in the studies but we also have new variants and some other factors coming into play. I don't think scientists know yet how fast immunity will decrease but immunity always decreases over time, even from natural exposure. We get a tetanus booster every 10 years or so, other boosters, influenza every year, etc. Decreasing effectiveness isn't some surprise or thing we should be so scared about.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 14, 2021, 10:39:21 PM
Why do you think they want everyone vaxxed. That way you cannot blame the vaxx. If majority of vaxxed are getting sick compared to the unvaxxed, then a light bulb should go on. Like how majority of Israel positives/hospitalized/deaths are vaxxed.
The vast majority of hospital patients here with covid are unvaxed and the vast majority of deaths are also among the unvaxxed.
Why is Israel different? Not sure, but it would be unscientific to just look at the Israeli numbers and conclude therefore that the vaccines are to blame, there are so many factors at play. They have one of the highest vaccination rates but what about various social factors which could lead to more breakthrough cases compared with other countries that are not seeing the same data?
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 15, 2021, 09:52:01 AM
The vast majority of hospital patients here with covid are unvaxed and the vast majority of deaths are also among the unvaxxed.
Why is Israel different? Not sure, but it would be unscientific to just look at the Israeli numbers and conclude therefore that the vaccines are to blame, there are so many factors at play. They have one of the highest vaccination rates but what about various social factors which could lead to more breakthrough cases compared with other countries that are not seeing the same data?
Majority of deaths here are vaxxed and almost all had underlying conditions.
It's not just Israel, but the UK and Australia as well shows similar numbers to Israel, basically the vaxxed are the ones getting sick. So all 3 countries use different vaxxes and have different social factors. Example: Israel uses mainly Pfizer. UK uses mainly Astrezenica, but also Moderna and J&J. So it's hard to compare us to the UK when we don't use Astra. That is why Israel is commonly used because we both use Pfizer. And the way the media and government has lied to the country, why should I trust the information posted by them about how it's mainly the vaxxed who end up in the hospital. All the people I know who ended up in the hospital are vaxxed. But take that with a grain of salt.
Then roll out the countries that give Ivermectin as a treatment and their success with it. But here in the Hawaii, denied.
Post by: omnigun on September 15, 2021, 10:10:13 AM
Majority of deaths here are vaxxed and almost all had underlying conditions.
It's not just Israel, but the UK and Australia as well shows similar numbers to Israel, basically the vaxxed are the ones getting sick. So all 3 countries use different vaxxes and have different social factors. Example: Israel uses mainly Pfizer. UK uses mainly Astrezenica, but also Moderna and J&J. So it's hard to compare us to the UK when we don't use Astra. That is why Israel is commonly used because we both use Pfizer. And the way the media and government has lied to the country, why should I trust the information posted by them about how it's mainly the vaxxed who end up in the hospital. All the people I know who ended up in the hospital are vaxxed. But take that with a grain of salt.
Then roll out the countries that give Ivermectin as a treatment and their success with it. But here in the Hawaii, denied.
Proof? I only seen that a majority of hospitalizations and deaths are the unvaxxed. Unless here you mean literally Hawaii.
Post by: hvybarrels on September 15, 2021, 10:17:38 AM
Decreasing effectiveness isn't some surprise or thing we should be so scared about.
It's either a broken promise or a lie. Not sure which is worse at this point.
Post by: Glasser on September 15, 2021, 10:31:52 AM
Also word today is DHH has commandeered the production output of monoclonal antibodies and is going to make itself the decider of which states get how many doses.
Post by: omnigun on September 15, 2021, 10:34:24 AM
The only medicine the government is allowing people to take to fight the disease isn't working anymore and that is 'nothing to worry about'. Wow.
Also word today is DHH has commandeered the production output of monoclonal antibodies and is going to make itself the decider of which states get how many doses.
Don't forget to favor the vaxxed for doses. :shaka:
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 15, 2021, 11:16:21 AM
The only medicine the government is allowing people to take to fight the disease isn't working anymore and that is 'nothing to worry about'. Wow.
Also word today is DHH has commandeered the production output of monoclonal antibodies and is going to make itself the decider of which states get how many doses.
Or they could just allow HCQ stack and Ivermectin early on, instead of waiting until you're so bad where they give you Remdisivar (Hawaii).
Post by: hvybarrels on September 15, 2021, 11:20:22 AM
Or they could just allow HCQ stack and Ivermectin early on, instead of waiting until you're so bad where they give you Remdisivar (Hawaii).
No treatment at all. Zero.
"Come back when you are almost dead so we can put you on a ventilator to finish the job and collect our $50,000 Covid bounty from the feds."
Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 15, 2021, 08:44:57 PM
Majority of deaths here are vaxxed and almost all had underlying conditions.
It's not just Israel, but the UK and Australia as well shows similar numbers to Israel, basically the vaxxed are the ones getting sick. So all 3 countries use different vaxxes and have different social factors. Example: Israel uses mainly Pfizer. UK uses mainly Astrezenica, but also Moderna and J&J. So it's hard to compare us to the UK when we don't use Astra. That is why Israel is commonly used because we both use Pfizer. And the way the media and government has lied to the country, why should I trust the information posted by them about how it's mainly the vaxxed who end up in the hospital. All the people I know who ended up in the hospital are vaxxed. But take that with a grain of salt.
Then roll out the countries that give Ivermectin as a treatment and their success with it. But here in the Hawaii, denied.
Here in Hawaii? Thats not the numbers I have been seeing. Breakthrough cases represent a very small portion of the cases and the hospitalizations.
https://www.khon2.com/coronavirus/covid-vaccine-breakthrough-cases-in-hawaii-spiked-since-july/
I did hear a report on the news about how many of the covid numbers they are seeing now are people going to the hospitals for other reasons but the cases are caught during screenings. So the person may have no health problems and just a broken ankle but if the screening finds covid then the person is counted as a breakthrough case. This may be one reason we are seeing all these breakthrough cases. I read an exaplanation about why covid seems to spread easily despite the vaccine. It had something to do with covid being able to spread in the nasal passage rather than deeper in the body. This meant that it can reproduce easier and be contagious before the immune system can fight it off. This seems to explain how people are still being able to spread it while vaccinated and without symptoms. Not because of a failure of the vaccine but because of the way the virus reproduces and natural limitations of how fast even a vaccinated immune system can respond.
The USA is supposed to be running Ivermectin trials but last I heard about it, it didn't seem promising. I haven't heard if they completed the studies yet.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 15, 2021, 08:51:47 PM
It's either a broken promise or a lie. Not sure which is worse at this point.
If you take a black and white approach then I can see how that is all it looks like.
Realistically medicine is not an exact science. They did very large initial studies and had a certain percentage, it wasn't a lie or a broken promise to report those numbers. They couldn't know that covid was going to mutate into all these variants or how exactly how fast the immunity would wane.
The only thing I think we can safely conclude is that there has been a failure to communicate. A lot of people aren't scientific minded, they hear 95% effective then later hear a lower number and they think they were lied to but that is an overly simplistic view of the world.
Post by: Glasser on September 15, 2021, 09:18:34 PM
If you take a black and white approach then I can see how that is all it looks like.
Realistically medicine is not an exact science. They did very large initial studies and had a certain percentage, it wasn't a lie or a broken promise to report those numbers. They couldn't know that covid was going to mutate into all these variants or how exactly how fast the immunity would wane.
The only thing I think we can safely conclude is that there has been a failure to communicate. A lot of people aren't scientific minded, they hear 95% effective then later hear a lower number and they think they were lied to but that is an overly simplistic view of the world.
Then why is the government dictating medical care and demanding a One Size Fits All approach to dealing with this?
You understand that Fauci while holds the title of 'doctor' he isnt a practicing medical doctor, he hasnt touched a patient since his residency in 1968. He has zero business telling anyone how to treat disease. He is lab worker who became a bureaucrat.
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 15, 2021, 09:31:44 PM
Here in Hawaii? Thats not the numbers I have been seeing. Breakthrough cases represent a very small portion of the cases and the hospitalizations.
https://www.khon2.com/coronavirus/covid-vaccine-breakthrough-cases-in-hawaii-spiked-since-july/
I did hear a report on the news about how many of the covid numbers they are seeing now are people going to the hospitals for other reasons but the cases are caught during screenings. So the person may have no health problems and just a broken ankle but if the screening finds covid then the person is counted as a breakthrough case. This may be one reason we are seeing all these breakthrough cases. I read an exaplanation about why covid seems to spread easily despite the vaccine. It had something to do with covid being able to spread in the nasal passage rather than deeper in the body. This meant that it can reproduce easier and be contagious before the immune system can fight it off. This seems to explain how people are still being able to spread it while vaccinated and without symptoms. Not because of a failure of the vaccine but because of the way the virus reproduces and natural limitations of how fast even a vaccinated immune system can respond.
The USA is supposed to be running Ivermectin trials but last I heard about it, it didn't seem promising. I haven't heard if they completed the studies yet.
Most hospitalized are unvaxxed, like 85% is the average. Last few weeks fluctuates between 11-16% vaxxed. Green gives this info via his fb/ig.
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Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 15, 2021, 09:45:09 PM
Then why is the government dictating medical care and demanding a One Size Fits All approach to dealing with this?
You understand that Fauci while holds the title of 'doctor' he isnt a practicing medical doctor, he hasnt touched a patient since his residency in 1968. He has zero business telling anyone how to treat disease. He is lab worker who became a bureaucrat.
Though I am no fan of Fauci, whether he sees patients or not isn't really a good argument against him. He is an immunologist by specialty and in his position he is looking at data on a large scale, not from the position of one doctor on the ground.
As I see it the government is doing what governments do. Respond to situations imperfectly, usually with good intentions. Think about it this way, if the government did nothing it would still be blamed plus the death toll would likely be higher. Politicians want to minimize blame to them. If anything though the USA isn't a one size fits all approach, we have 50 states doing their own things and the feds sticking their foot in the door as well. I think the government is pushing vaccines so hard because the leaders believe that is the answer to resolving the pandemic. I think their execution is poor on a number of levels though
Post by: Glasser on September 15, 2021, 10:30:53 PM
CDCs only job, track diseases and their spread.
FDAs only job test drugs to see if they are safe for consuption.
Neither is a healthcare organization. They never in history have been the ones to tell doctors what do do.
"Think about it this way, if the government did nothing it would still be blamed plus the death toll would likely be higher.'
Obama literally ignored the swine flu outbreak and did nothing.
H1N1 swine flu outbreak of 2009 infected 700 million people world-wide and caused 575,000 fatalities only in the first year of the outbreak in 2009
From April 12, 2009 to April 10, 2010, CDC estimated there were 60.8 million cases (range: 43.3-89.3 million), 274,304 hospitalizations (range: 195,086-402,719), and 12,469 deaths (range: 8868-18,306) in the United States due to the (H1N1)pdm09 virus.
Post by: macsak on September 15, 2021, 10:40:05 PM
Though I am no fan of Fauci, whether he sees patients or not isn't really a good argument against him. He is an immunologist by specialty and in his position he is looking at data on a large scale, not from the position of one doctor on the ground.
As I see it the government is doing what governments do. Respond to situations imperfectly, usually with good intentions. Think about it this way, if the government did nothing it would still be blamed plus the death toll would likely be higher. Politicians want to minimize blame to them. If anything though the USA isn't a one size fits all approach, we have 50 states doing their own things and the feds sticking their foot in the door as well. I think the government is pushing vaccines so hard because the leaders believe that is the answer to resolving the pandemic. I think their execution is poor on a number of levels though
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on September 15, 2021, 10:46:18 PM
In the case of a pandemic, sure, they are best able to do CERTAIN THINGS to stop the spread and find a vaccine, but the government should not be expected to manage 100% of the problem. We have local level officials and agencies much more capable of dealing with the human aspect of the problem. If the homeless population is increasing infection rates, don't expect the feds to fix that.
Every politician who campaigns for Congress and the WH promises the moon. Yet, things like racial equality, social justice and so on are not in the scope of their duties.
But, it buys votes, so don't expect it to stop. Biden ran on fixing the COVID situation. So far, mostly excuses, blaming Trump, and more promises. He was elected on a platform that a President should have never considered running on.
Ending the war in Afghanistan was another of Biden's promises. Even when he IS doing what's under his job description, he mucks it up.
But, hey! We should always trust government.
Post by: Jl808 on September 16, 2021, 06:44:00 AM
1. If someone who took the jab gets hospitalized and dies within 14 days of being vaccinated, they count it as an unvaccinated death. What if some of those person actually died from taking the jab and not from covid?
2. What if some of those deaths were caused by the treatment protocols used to treat those admitted for covid, and not from covid itself? What if the underlying conditions that led to organ failure are actually caused by the wrong treatments (medical malpractice), and not by covid as we are told?
3. What about the claim by the Hawaii Whistleblower that Dr Green conflated the number of covid deaths by including deaths of hospice patients?
Post by: omnigun on September 16, 2021, 07:03:15 AM
Regarding the narrative we are being told that most of the people who die in Hawaii are unvaccinated, here’s some things to consider:
1. If someone who took the jab gets hospitalized and dies within 14 days of being vaccinated, they count it as an unvaccinated death. What if some of those person actually died from taking the jab and not from covid?
2. What if some of those deaths were caused by the treatment protocols used to treat those admitted for covid, and not from covid itself? What if the underlying conditions that led to organ failure are actually caused by the wrong treatments (medical malpractice), and not by covid as we are told?
3. What about the claim by the Hawaii Whistleblower that Dr Green conflated the number of covid deaths by including deaths of hospice patients?
The vaccine had been proven safe in that 14 day window.
Even if you had a pre existing issue, covid is what pushed it over the tipping point and we can assume without covid you would be still alive. So that's a valid way to count covid deaths.
Post by: drck1000 on September 16, 2021, 07:18:57 AM
The vaccine had been proven safe in that 14 day window.Have proof of that statement?
Even if you had a pre existing issue, covid is what pushed it over the tipping point and we can assume without covid you would be still alive. So that's a valid way to count covid deaths.
I have a good friend whose father was forced to take the vaxx (for reasons I don't have all of the details), but suffered some severe reactions. And not just "feeling terrible" reactions. While not that common, I've heard many stories like that. So please, again, tell me if you have proof of that blanket statement. . .
Ever listen to those commercials for drugs and the disclaimers?
Then attributing death to COVID, while I get what you're saying, that's your opinion and part of the point of contention in "the data". But that's still your opinion. Or let me put it this way, what do you know of co-morbidities?
Post by: Glasser on September 16, 2021, 08:08:23 AM
Post by: omnigun on September 16, 2021, 08:38:17 AM
Have proof of that statement?
I have a good friend whose father was forced to take the vaxx (for reasons I don't have all of the details), but suffered some severe reactions. And not just "feeling terrible" reactions. While not that common, I've heard many stories like that. So please, again, tell me if you have proof of that blanket statement. . .
Ever listen to those commercials for drugs and the disclaimers?
Then attributing death to COVID, while I get what you're saying, that's your opinion and part of the point of contention in "the data". But that's still your opinion. Or let me put it this way, what do you know of co-morbidities?
The CDC says complications with the vaccine are rare. They and others have done extensive testing for the covid vaccine. Hundreds of millions are vaccinated with no issues.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/safety-of-vaccines.html
Post by: drck1000 on September 16, 2021, 08:53:09 AM
The CDC says complications with the vaccine are rare. They and others have done extensive testing for the covid vaccine. Hundreds of millions are vaccinated with no issues.Complications are rare = proven safe?
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/safety-of-vaccines.html
No need to reply. . .
Post by: omnigun on September 16, 2021, 09:02:52 AM
Complications are rare = proven safe?
No need to reply. . .
Walking outside, the complications are rare but we generally say its safe. Same can be said for breathing, eating and basically everything humans do.
Post by: Glasser on September 16, 2021, 09:13:21 AM
New Zealand reported 27 total deaths “with” COVID-19 & 40 deaths possibly related to the Pfizer vaccine since 2020
This week they reported 0 C19 deaths & 3 deaths possibly related to the vaccine
Making the vaccine more deadly in theory to NZ’ers than the actual virus
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E_WSuPBWEAYp-j9?format=jpg&name=medium)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E_WSuPCXEAAdwug?format=jpg&name=large)
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/new-zealand/
Post by: drck1000 on September 16, 2021, 09:24:14 AM
What anyone else believes = uber high level of proof
"I know what I know, don't confuse me with the facts". . . :facepalm:
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 16, 2021, 09:25:04 AM
What I belive = low standard of proof
What anyone else believes = uber high level of proof
"I know what I know, don't confuse me with the facts". . . :facepalm:
And he replied, even though you said no need. Something is seriously wrong...
Post by: drck1000 on September 16, 2021, 09:34:11 AM
And he replied, even though you said no need. Something is seriously wrong...Nah, I expected it actually. Point was already made, at least on my end. I think relatively intelligent folks got it.
Post by: omnigun on September 16, 2021, 09:38:05 AM
What I belive = low standard of proof
What anyone else believes = uber high level of proof
"I know what I know, don't confuse me with the facts". . . :facepalm:
What experts and the government (who do research) believe > Non experts > Conspiracy peddlers
On subjects I am not an expert, I choose to trust the experts. The experts did research and come to the conclusion covid vaccines are safe. They provided proof.
Unlike some people here...
Post by: Jl808 on September 16, 2021, 09:39:21 AM
The vaccine had been proven safe in that 14 day window.Hypothetical example:
Even if you had a pre existing issue, covid is what pushed it over the tipping point and we can assume without covid you would be still alive. So that's a valid way to count covid deaths.
1. Person takes the jab
2. Within 14 weeks, person get admitted to the hospital and gets tested and treated for covid.
3. They die from organ failure
4. Hospital lists them as an unvaccinated covid death resulting from organ failure.
5. Cha-ching! Hospital gets reimbursed by the feds for another covid patient.
Paraphrasing Omnigun: “Person was unvaccinated so he/she was an idiot and deserved to die from covid.”
Skeptic:
1. “Is it really honest to treat this as an unvaccinated death?” What is the time threshold? Why 14 days? Why not 2 days?
2. “How do you know that the covid test was accurate?” We know that the covid tests are not accurate.
3. “How do you know they didn’t get hospitalized BECAUSE of the vaccine shot?” We know there are adverse reactions to the jab (see VAERS).
4. “How do you know they didn’t die FROM the vaccine shot?” Same point as #3.
5. “How do you know they didn’t suffer from organ failure because of wrong treatments at the hospital leading to organ failure (rmdsmvr)?” More people die from medical malpractice than from Covid. If I’m not mistaken, I recall reading somewhere that the #3 cause of death is medical malpractice.
Post by: omnigun on September 16, 2021, 09:48:05 AM
Hypothetical example:
1. Person takes the jab
2. Within 14 weeks, person get admitted to the hospital and gets tested and treated for covid.
3. They die from organ failure
4. Hospital lists them as an unvaccinated covid death resulting from organ failure.
Paraphrasing Omnigun: “Person was unvaccinated so he/she was an idiot and deserved to die from covid.”
Skeptic:
1. “Is it really honest to treat this as an unvaccinated death?” What is the time threshold? Why 14 days? Why not 2 days?
2. “How do you know that the covid test was accurate?” We know that the covid tests are not accurate.
3. “How do you know they didn’t get hospitalized BECAUSE of the vaccine shot?” We know there are adverse reactions to the jab (see VAERS).
4. “How do you know they didn’t die FROM the vaccine shot?” Same point as #3.
5. “How do you know they didn’t suffer from organ failure because of wrong treatments at the hospital leading to organ failure (rmdsmvr)?” More people die from medical malpractice than from Covid. If I’m not mistaken, I recall reading somewhere that the #3 cause of death is medical malpractice.
The vaccine needs a certain period of time to work. If not reached the end result, we can't hold it responsible. Imagine complaining your food is bad before its fully cooked. Also at this point to wait so long for the Covid vaccine that's on you.
There are different covid tests, some more accurate than others. But the degree of accuracy is greater than the degree of it being wrong. This is not a perfect world, assumptions must be made. For every false positive there might be someone who died who never got diagnosed or a false negative.
There are adverse reactions but using simple probability we can make safe assumptions especially if they tested positive for covid. The vaccine should not produce this result.
Its almost impossible to tell "true" deaths but we make educated assumptions all the time. Did the cancer truly kill the patient or did the address stress on the body cause heart failure/etc. What do you blame? Normally they would say cancer killed them.
For your 5th one, I have not seen any evidence of his, do you have sources?
Post by: Jl808 on September 16, 2021, 09:56:34 AM
For #5, No sources, just anecdotes. But do you have sources otherwise?
Post by: macsak on September 16, 2021, 10:06:28 AM
Walking outside, the complications are rare but we generally say its safe. Same can be said for breathing, eating and basically everything humans do.
which is different from "proven safe"
goalpost is, well, you know...
Post by: omnigun on September 16, 2021, 10:08:06 AM
For #1, if you ate sushi then had to go toilet, how do you know it wasn’t from the sushi? Why 14 days for the vaccine to take effect on your body before it will have an effect on your body?
For #5, No sources, just anecdotes. But do you have sources otherwise?
In life you have to make educated guesses and assumptions unless proven otherwise. What is the highest probability. Eating sushi and getting food poisoning right after makes it highly probable of being related. Sure you can't really 100% prove it most of the time, you can run tests on the food but is that exact food the one that you put in your mouth? You never 100% know. But "99.99%" is good enough for many.
The vaccine provokes a immune response so your body learns to recognize the virus and attack it properly. If you do not give it enough time it won't be effective. The body does not have time to learn. Much like preparing food, you need to finish it for it be considered ready. Or getting a lesson and then given a test mid lesson vs after the lesson.
Post by: drck1000 on September 16, 2021, 10:08:31 AM
Post by: drck1000 on September 16, 2021, 10:08:55 AM
which is different from "proven safe"bazinga
goalpost is, well, you know...
Post by: omnigun on September 16, 2021, 10:09:01 AM
which is different from "proven safe"
goalpost is, well, you know...
Same thing. Its proven safe. Not 100% as nothing ever is. We would consider eating a sandwich safe. PROVEN safe, if I might suggest. But once in a while some dude might choke and die. Does that mean all food is not safe?
Post by: hvybarrels on September 16, 2021, 10:10:54 AM
Still not getting it. . .
Experimental drugs are killing hundreds of thousands of people and the government and media are covering it up. Speak up about it and the trolls come after you. It's not complicated.
Post by: omnigun on September 16, 2021, 10:12:39 AM
Experimental drugs are killing hundreds of thousands of people and the government and media are covering it up. Speak up about it and the trolls come after you. It's not complicated.
Fake news
Prove that false statement, bud.
Post by: hvybarrels on September 16, 2021, 10:15:13 AM
Mass reports of menstruation problems.Women throwing huge clots. The vaccinated are genociding themselves.
(https://thecovidblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/K-Marie.png)
Post by: drck1000 on September 16, 2021, 10:17:40 AM
Experimental drugs are killing hundreds of thousands of people and the government and media are covering it up. Speak up about it and the trolls come after you. It's not complicated.But eh, proven safe. . . cuz
Post by: macsak on September 16, 2021, 10:20:18 AM
Same thing. Its proven safe. Not 100% as nothing ever is. We would consider eating a sandwich safe. PROVEN safe, if I might suggest. But once in a while some dude might choke and die. Does that mean all food is not safe?
it's not the same thing
it's the same thing "in your opinion"
HUGE difference which you cannot seem to catch onto, bruh
Post by: macsak on September 16, 2021, 10:21:30 AM
Fake news
Prove that false statement, bud.
lol, asks someone to prove a statement mere minutes after he refuses to prove a statement
hypocrite much, bud?
Post by: Jl808 on September 16, 2021, 10:21:53 AM
https://thecovidblog.com/2021/05/07/pfizer-documents-unvaccinated-people-can-be-exposed-to-experimental-mrna-from-vaccinated-people-frightening-adverse-reactions/This is true. One family member who was already done with periods started bleeding again after she took the jab.
Mass reports of menstruation problems.Women throwing huge clots. The vaccinated are genociding themselves.
(https://thecovidblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/K-Marie.png)
Post by: Jl808 on September 16, 2021, 10:29:48 AM
Still not getting it. . .Info hesitant
Post by: drck1000 on September 16, 2021, 10:43:22 AM
it's not the same thingyuge
it's the same thing "in your opinion"
HUGE difference which you cannot seem to catch onto, bruh
Post by: drck1000 on September 16, 2021, 10:43:52 AM
Info hesitantHesitant eh? A nuke couldn't break through that mind block. . .
Post by: Jl808 on September 16, 2021, 10:50:50 AM
Reminds me of this Yuri Bezmenov interview about brainwashing an entire generation.
https://youtu.be/pgCnpCBORyM
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 16, 2021, 11:10:52 AM
My friend is a flight attendant. She's in her 50's and stopped getting her period 30 years ago due to health issues. She got her period. And so did all the other flight attendants in her crew. All of which were menopausal. They need to keep a health log per the airline rules. And this log tracks even menstruation Then 2 male flight attendants in their 30's in her crew ended up in ICU and they are not positive for COVID.. All are vaxxed. None are fat due to weight requirement by the airline to be a flight attendant and in reasonable health as well.
Post by: hvybarrels on September 16, 2021, 11:16:00 AM
I posted this in the COVID thread about a month ago.
My friend is a flight attendant. She's in her 50's and stopped getting her period 30 years ago due to health issues. She got her period. And so did all the other flight attendants in her crew. All of which were menopausal. They need to keep a health log per the airline rules. And this log tracks even menstruation Then 2 male flight attendants in their 30's in her crew ended up in ICU and they are not positive for COVID.. All are vaxxed. None are fat due to weight requirement by the airline to be a flight attendant and in reasonable health as well.
The media is not going to be able to keep a lid on this forever, and when it blows open things are going to get really ugly.
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 16, 2021, 11:26:59 AM
The media is not going to be able to keep a lid on this forever, and when it blows open things are going to get really ugly.
Nah, there are so many believers in the vaxx that it won't matter. Of which those believers have little to no first hand XP from people who actually had problems and trust the government blindly.
I had another guy I know died after getting the vaxx. He's a body builder about 8% bodyfat. But to be fair, he has been on roidz for over a decade. Roidz does cause heart problems.
But these are a handfull compared to say 3 dozen people that I know of who are vaxxed. But the point is 1 may never catch covid, so to inject yourself with a new vaxx for human usage causes my concern. Of which full clinical trials are not done yet.
Post by: omnigun on September 16, 2021, 11:40:18 AM
Nah, there are so many believers in the vaxx that it won't matter. Of which those believers have little to no first hand XP from people who actually had problems and trust the government blindly.
I had another guy I know died after getting the vaxx. He's a body builder about 8% bodyfat. But to be fair, he has been on roidz for over a decade. Roidz does cause heart problems.
But these are a handfull compared to say 3 dozen people that I know of who are vaxxed. But the point is 1 may never catch covid, so to inject yourself with a new vaxx for human usage causes my concern. Of which full clinical trials are not done yet.
If we go all " I know people". I know people who died from covid. None from the vaxx. Don't know a single person including myself that has any negative long lasting effects.
Post by: hvybarrels on September 16, 2021, 11:59:39 AM
Nah, there are so many believers in the vaxx that it won't matter. Of which those believers have little to no first hand XP from people who actually had problems and trust the government blindly.
I had another guy I know died after getting the vaxx. He's a body builder about 8% bodyfat. But to be fair, he has been on roidz for over a decade. Roidz does cause heart problems.
But these are a handfull compared to say 3 dozen people that I know of who are vaxxed. But the point is 1 may never catch covid, so to inject yourself with a new vaxx for human usage causes my concern. Of which full clinical trials are not done yet.
Just in my circle I know a few injuries as well. Eventually people will figure out that the whole narrative has been a lie, but it will probably take a lot more people dying when the medium/long term effects kick in
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 16, 2021, 12:21:45 PM
Just in my circle I know a few injuries as well. Eventually people will figure out that the whole narrative has been a lie, but it will probably take a lot more people dying when the medium/long term effects kick in
Both you and I don't count. Until our resident medical expert knows of someone, then it will count.
Post by: omnigun on September 16, 2021, 12:27:23 PM
Both you and I don't count. Until our resident medical expert knows of someone, then it will count.
None of us count. Leave it up to actual experts.
Post by: aletheuo137 on September 16, 2021, 12:27:45 PM
Both you and I don't count. Until our resident medical expert knows of someone, then it will count.One, ah ah! Two, ah ah! Three ah ah ah!(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210916/62cb8654ffe1db52fdca3a91637c97d5.jpg)
Sent from my SM-A102U using Tapatalk
Post by: aletheuo137 on September 17, 2021, 02:12:05 AM
https://youtu.be/IIs-PY_uYDs
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Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 17, 2021, 09:54:52 PM
errf
CDCs only job, track diseases and their spread.
FDAs only job test drugs to see if they are safe for consuption.
Neither is a healthcare organization. They never in history have been the ones to tell doctors what do do.
I question that conclusion. Disease tracking data is going to provide all sorts of information that is going to be very useful to doctors.
Quote
"Think about it this way, if the government did nothing it would still be blamed plus the death toll would likely be higher.'
Obama literally ignored the swine flu outbreak and did nothing.
H1N1 swine flu outbreak of 2009 infected 700 million people world-wide and caused 575,000 fatalities only in the first year of the outbreak in 2009
They didn't do nothing. Swine flu was also quite a bit different than covid, a response for two different diseases aren't going to be the same. It would be silly to require masks to stop HIV for example.
https://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/cdcresponse.htm
Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 17, 2021, 10:01:00 PM
Regarding the narrative we are being told that most of the people who die in Hawaii are unvaccinated, here’s some things to consider:
1. If someone who took the jab gets hospitalized and dies within 14 days of being vaccinated, they count it as an unvaccinated death. What if some of those person actually died from taking the jab and not from covid?
2. What if some of those deaths were caused by the treatment protocols used to treat those admitted for covid, and not from covid itself? What if the underlying conditions that led to organ failure are actually caused by the wrong treatments (medical malpractice), and not by covid as we are told?
3. What about the claim by the Hawaii Whistleblower that Dr Green conflated the number of covid deaths by including deaths of hospice patients?
Good scientific questions and I think the answer is in the data. Not always easy to isolate but I think those questions are answerable with good data.
So for example, I think #2 could be answered by looking at the normal rates of medical malpractice and applying that percentage to covid patients and seeing what percentage of covid blamed deaths they could be accounting for,
Post by: macsak on September 17, 2021, 10:15:15 PM
I question that conclusion. Disease tracking data is going to provide all sorts of information that is going to be very useful to doctors.
They didn't do nothing. Swine flu was also quite a bit different than covid, a response for two different diseases aren't going to be the same. It would be silly to require masks to stop HIV for example.
https://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/cdcresponse.htm
please show me where he said the information was not going to be very useful
for someone who chooses his words SO carefully, you are awfully cavalier with your interpretation of what others say quite often...
Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 18, 2021, 08:11:20 PM
please show me where he said the information was not going to be very useful
for someone who chooses his words SO carefully, you are awfully cavalier with your interpretation of what others say quite often...
He implied that the CDC shouldn't tell doctors what to do. The information CDC gathers is going to be very useful in telling doctors what to do in certain situations.
Post by: oldfart on September 19, 2021, 03:16:02 AM
The drug that was rushed to the public before being fully vetted.
(https://i.postimg.cc/Hxr1P71c/thalidomide1.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
As I've mentioned before, I had a childhood friend and an in-law with the classic deformities.
But they are both dead now. Nice, huh?
Post by: hvybarrels on September 19, 2021, 07:19:43 AM
I just thought I would drop this photo here in case you never heard of thalidomide.
The drug that was rushed to the public before being fully vetted.
(https://i.postimg.cc/Hxr1P71c/thalidomide1.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
As I've mentioned before, I had a childhood friend and an in-law with the classic deformities.
But they are both dead now. Nice, huh?
Those babies obviously didn’t trust the science enough
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 19, 2021, 08:37:37 AM
Those babies obviously didn’t trust the science enoughOr the government.
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Post by: oldfart on September 19, 2021, 08:59:46 AM
My daughter-in-law was isolated from the world for the last year or so because I raised my son to think for himself and he took the extraordinary stance to isolate his family until my new grandbaby arrived. He saw first-hand what happened to his thalidomide-uncle. (No pun intended)
About 2 weeks ago my new grandbaby popped out....complete with arms and all the usual attachments.
They will emerge from isolation in November.
:thumbsup:
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 19, 2021, 09:12:58 AM
I read somewhere that 40% of those babies died at birth....a bittersweet statistic at best.We want to start a family soon. Gotta look up having covid and any birth defects.
My daughter-in-law was isolated from the world for the last year or so because I raised my son to think for himself and he took the extraordinary stance to isolate his family until my new grandbaby arrived. He saw first-hand what happened to his thalidomide-uncle. (No pun intended)
About 2 weeks ago my new grandbaby popped out....complete with arms and all the usual attachments.
They will emerge from isolation in November.
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Post by: oldfart on September 19, 2021, 12:18:58 PM
We want to start a family soon. Gotta look up having covid and any birth defects.....
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I wouldn't worry about covid causing birth defects.
I would worry about new drugs and birth defects.
Less is better, in my opinion. Good luck to you and your new family.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on September 19, 2021, 12:38:25 PM
It's an unknown risk, so prudence would dictate avoiding the vaccine prior to giving birth while being hyper-vigilant to do all the things we know reduces the chances of infection.
Aspirin was first created in 1853. A precursor for aspirin found in the Willow Tree has been used for 2,400 years. It took until 1986 for the FDA to recognize the risk of Reye's Syndrome in children to recommend that pregnant women in the last few months of pregnancy, children and teenagers avoid using aspirin.
COVID vaccines have had less than 2 years of clinical and field testing. Anyone who makes the statement "there's no evidence of long term effects causing birth defects," has no clue what "long term" means.
Post by: omnigun on September 19, 2021, 12:55:36 PM
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on September 19, 2021, 01:15:25 PM
Vaccines are different than current dosing medicine...one has much greater risk....
Studies? Facts? Experts?
Anything at all to back up that conclusion/opinion/fake news?
Post by: Jl808 on September 20, 2021, 06:03:37 PM
https://youtu.be/obdI7tgKLtA
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 20, 2021, 06:21:04 PM
Project Veritas HHS Whistleblower - Part 1 “Vaccine is Full of Sh*t”Dont u know, they are fake news. Despite the many retractions made trying to call them fake news or legal suits won.
https://youtu.be/obdI7tgKLtA
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Post by: macsak on September 20, 2021, 07:34:45 PM
Dont u know, they are fake news. Despite the many retractions made trying to call them fake news or legal suits won.
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not proven in a court of law
oh wait...
Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 20, 2021, 08:50:58 PM
If the vaccines are only recommended for 16 yr olds and older, and the unborn child gets his/her immunity from the mother, it doesn't make any sense to give the vaccine to someone who is, or expects to be, pregnant.
It's an unknown risk, so prudence would dictate avoiding the vaccine prior to giving birth while being hyper-vigilant to do all the things we know reduces the chances of infection.
Aspirin was first created in 1853. A precursor for aspirin found in the Willow Tree has been used for 2,400 years. It took until 1986 for the FDA to recognize the risk of Reye's Syndrome in children to recommend that pregnant women in the last few months of pregnancy, children and teenagers avoid using aspirin.
COVID vaccines have had less than 2 years of clinical and field testing. Anyone who makes the statement "there's no evidence of long term effects causing birth defects," has no clue what "long term" means.
That doesn't mean they can't make relatively accurate long term predictions. So this mRNA method of treating conditions has been under research for about 30 years. That combined with a strong knowledge of chemistry and biology is going to give scientists a pretty good idea of how the various substances are going to react. It isn't guaranteed that nothing else will happen but it isn't a shot in the dark either. We know quite a bit more now than in 1853, heck in 1853 instrument sterilization and hand washing weren't really even a big thing in medicine.
We know enough more that I am a lot more confidant that the risk for long term complications is quite low. I don't think anyone has ever put salter caramel on a slice of salmon but we already know how salt and sugars interact with flesh so we can pretty safely say it isn't dangerous to combine those two things (yes I know it is overly simplistic).
I listened to an interview with a local OBGYN who explained that mRNA cannot pass through the amniotic sack so based on that knowledge they can already rule out many types of potential risks. What the OBGYN did cover is that the side effects of getting covid while pregnant could be quite serious to the mother and the baby. Like with anything else I think we should look at the covid vaccine in terms of least risk because there is never zero risk in any choice. What could the vaccine do to me and my baby vs what could covid do.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on September 20, 2021, 08:56:23 PM
That doesn't mean they can't make relatively accurate long term predictions.
Predictions?
You mean like this?
Forecasting for COVID-19 has failed
Quote
Epidemic forecasting has a dubious track-record, and its failures became more prominent withhttps://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7447267/
COVID-19. Poor data input, wrong modeling assumptions, high sensitivity of estimates, lack of
incorporation of epidemiological features, poor past evidence on effects of available interventions,
lack of transparency, errors, lack of determinacy, consideration of only one or a few dimensions of
the problem at hand, lack of expertise in crucial disciplines, groupthink and bandwagon effects,
and selective reporting are some of the causes of these failures.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 20, 2021, 09:02:34 PM
Predictions?
You mean like this?
Forecasting for COVID-19 has failedhttps://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7447267/
That is kind of a different topic though, studying a drug vs studying how a disease moves across a population. Epidemiology is a lot more complicated with more variables than chemistry and biology.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on September 20, 2021, 09:23:26 PM
That is kind of a different topic though, studying a drug vs studying how a disease moves across a population. Epidemiology is a lot more complicated with more variables than chemistry and biology.
Still the same, trying to predict the spread of the DISEASE requires the same type of knowledge, disciplines and processes as predicting how DRUGS will impact the DISEASE, the INFECTED and the VACCINATED.
Can't study the drugs if you haven't got a good grasp on the disease it treats.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 21, 2021, 09:17:55 PM
Still the same, trying to predict the spread of the DISEASE requires the same type of knowledge, disciplines and processes as predicting how DRUGS will impact the DISEASE, the INFECTED and the VACCINATED.
Can't study the drugs if you haven't got a good grasp on the disease it treats.
Disease evolve so there is always going to be some unpredictable factor so a vaccines effectiveness long term cannot be predicted for certain. But when it comes to long term side effects I think scientists have much better ideas of how the ingredients in the vaccine are going to interact with our biology.
It wasn't long ago that airplanes had to be drawn by hand and wind tunnels be used for extensive testing. Now with computers these things can all be simulated with much higher confidence and speed.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on September 21, 2021, 09:42:18 PM
Disease evolve so there is always going to be some unpredictable factor so a vaccines effectiveness long term cannot be predicted for certain. But when it comes to long term side effects I think scientists have much better ideas of how the ingredients in the vaccine are going to interact with our biology.
It wasn't long ago that airplanes had to be drawn by hand and wind tunnels be used for extensive testing. Now with computers these things can all be simulated with much higher confidence and speed.
I never said anything "can be predicted for certain." No doctor in his right mind guarantees a given result from any medication. There's alway a certain degree of risk that drugs will not work or will cause worse problems for a given patient. What they can do is offer an OPINION on the risks. It's up to the patient to accept them, not the doctors.
I went for LASIK surgery. The first visit was to identify whether or not I was a viable candidate for the surgery. Next visit was to map my eyes with a computer and create a custom prescription for each lens. Next visit was to actually cut my lenses with the laser. The day following surgery, I was tested with 20/20 in the right, and 20/10 in the left.
Before I agreed with the procedure, I had to read some literature and watch a video outlining all the bad things that some LASIK patients have experienced. The effects included worse vision than before the surgery, constant halo effects from lights at night, and even blindness.
In the end, I had to make the decision based on the information provided.
As of now, there's not enough information for the individual to make a truly informed decision, because there hasn't been enough time to really know all the effects of the vaccines -- no matter how many drug-maker-sponsored studies the government cites.
Post by: hvybarrels on September 21, 2021, 09:45:29 PM
Disease evolve so there is always going to be some unpredictable factor so a vaccines effectiveness long term cannot be predicted for certain. But when it comes to long term side effects I think scientists have much better ideas of how the ingredients in the vaccine are going to interact with our biology.
It wasn't long ago that airplanes had to be drawn by hand and wind tunnels be used for extensive testing. Now with computers these things can all be simulated with much higher confidence and speed.
It was not that long ago that vaccines took years to bring to market because of all those pesky safety regulations. Now we just skip right over all that noise and test it on the general public regardless if they want it or not.
(https://s2.qwant.com/thumbr/0x380/f/8/a091757fd25227bbb392f23168c354bdfb0f3822b7b059ad8196ee6abbbcf0/zklz0Y3LYFw_cover.jpg?u=https%3A%2F%2Fdata-1.utreon.com%2Fv%2FYW%2FEy%2FMj%2Fzklz0Y3LYFw%2Fzklz0Y3LYFw_cover.jpg&q=0&b=1&p=0&a=0)
Post by: hvybarrels on September 22, 2021, 08:53:34 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obdI7tgKLtA
Post by: omnigun on September 22, 2021, 09:10:17 AM
Federal Govt HHS Whistleblower Goes Public With Secret Recordings "Vaccine is Full of Sh*t"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obdI7tgKLtA
lol veritas is full of shit.
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 22, 2021, 09:12:36 AM
Disease evolve so there is always going to be some unpredictable factor so a vaccines effectiveness long term cannot be predicted for certain. But when it comes to long term side effects I think scientists have much better ideas of how the ingredients in the vaccine are going to interact with our biology.
It wasn't long ago that airplanes had to be drawn by hand and wind tunnels be used for extensive testing. Now with computers these things can all be simulated with much higher confidence and speed.
According to the gestapo, covid mutated/evolved because of the unvaxxed. It's entirely their fault.
Post by: macsak on September 22, 2021, 09:23:17 AM
lol veritas is full of shit.
as always, you left out somethihng...
Post by: ren on September 22, 2021, 09:52:46 AM
as always, you left out somethihng...
What is a test target.
Or gun was never possessed as claimed
Post by: drck1000 on September 22, 2021, 09:56:39 AM
lol veritas is full of shit , like macsak.
as always, you left out somethihng...you mean like that? ;D
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 22, 2021, 10:22:59 AM
as always, you left out somethihng...
We covered this with him already. And again, when goal post moved or his opinions are wrong, then he forgets.
Post by: drck1000 on September 22, 2021, 10:24:34 AM
We covered this with him already. And again, when goal post moved or his opinions are wrong, then he forgets.#cogdis
Post by: omnigun on September 22, 2021, 10:42:03 AM
as always, you left out somethihng...
In the majority of people's including my opinion, Veritas is full of shit.
Similar to opinions of MSM.
Post by: drck1000 on September 22, 2021, 10:52:46 AM
I am the majority of people's opinion. . . :crazy:
Post by: omnigun on September 22, 2021, 10:54:55 AM
::)
I am the majority of people's opinion. . . :crazy:
Nope. I am just a member of the majority. Most people if polled would say Veritas is not legit news. Much like I would say would have the same opinion about MSM
Post by: drck1000 on September 22, 2021, 11:12:39 AM
CMO will be along soon with the sound effects. . .
Post by: aletheuo137 on September 22, 2021, 11:15:26 AM
Point completely whiffed at. . .Swoosh
CMO will be along soon with the sound effects. . .
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Post by: changemyoil66 on September 22, 2021, 11:41:45 AM
Swoosh
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Bro, you took a joy out from my day today.
Post by: drck1000 on September 22, 2021, 11:53:23 AM
Bro, you took a joy out from my day today.You can put more feeling into yours. . . SHOOOOOOOSHHHHHHHH
:rofl:
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 22, 2021, 12:01:53 PM
Post by: macsak on September 22, 2021, 12:04:36 PM
Nope. I am just a member of the majority. Most people if polled would say Veritas is not legit news. Much like I would say would have the same opinion about MSM
but is it proven in a court of law they are full of shit?
iirc, they are undefeated in court...
Post by: drck1000 on September 22, 2021, 12:08:46 PM
but is it proven in a court of law they are full of shit?#nocandefense
iirc, they are undefeated in court...
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 22, 2021, 12:18:55 PM
but is it proven in a court of law they are full of shit?
iirc, they are undefeated in court...
100% of the things they report have not been proven in a court of law. So since only a selection of what they reported was proven in court, they cannot be deemed as credible due to not 100% of stories proven in a court of law.
But in my feelings, I feel that I am the majority, thus they are fake news, even though they have never had to print a retraction and won in court. (Sarcasm) With this statement, am I required to wear a tard helmet when walking?
Post by: drck1000 on September 22, 2021, 12:23:24 PM
100% of the things they report have not been proven in a court of law. So since only a selection of what they reported was proven in court, they cannot be deemed as credible due to not 100% of stories proven in a court of law.reading that gave me a headache. . .
But in my feelings, I feel that I am the majority, thus they are fake news, even though they have never had to print a retraction and won in court. (Sarcasm) With this statement, am I required to wear a tard helmet when walking?
:rofl:
Post by: omnigun on September 22, 2021, 12:25:38 PM
Post by: drck1000 on September 22, 2021, 12:27:55 PM
Take a good hard look in the mirror. I'll leave it to CMO to give you the next centering speech. . .
Post by: hvybarrels on September 22, 2021, 12:29:03 PM
Post by: drck1000 on September 22, 2021, 12:30:31 PM
quart of lawwat kine ice cream dat? ;D
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 22, 2021, 12:41:53 PM
Uh, ever even stop to consider that YOU may be the one that doesn't realize?
Take a good hard look in the mirror. I'll leave it to CMO to give you the next centering speech. . .
No more speeches. I've done my part and can say I've tried to help on more than 1 occasion. Since he doesn't want to listen, it's on him at this point and can't say "I didn't know I was a X,Y,Z" or "No one told me I was a X,Y,Z" or "Why is my life the way it is, I wish someone told me I was X,Y,Z", etc...
Many people are X, Y, Z because no one told them. They get away with being it their entire life until someone brings them to reality.
Post by: macsak on September 22, 2021, 12:46:38 PM
You do all realize that proven in court of law applies when what happened is illegal right? You can be full of shit and legal.
we see this every time someone posts...
Post by: drck1000 on September 22, 2021, 12:46:51 PM
No more speeches. I've done my part and can say I've tried to help on more than 1 occasion. Since he doesn't want to listen, it's on him at this point and can't say "I didn't know I was a X,Y,Z" or "No one told me I was a X,Y,Z" or "Why is my life the way it is, I wish someone told me I was X,Y,Z", etc...We still help you. . . even if you don't listen at times. . . :P :rofl:
Many people are X, Y, Z because no one told them. They get away with being it their entire life until someone brings them to reality.
Post by: drck1000 on September 22, 2021, 12:47:20 PM
we see this every time someone posts...clips
:o
Post by: macsak on September 22, 2021, 12:47:47 PM
You do all realize that proven in court of law applies when what happened is illegal right? You can be full of shit and legal.
sarcasm is hard...
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 22, 2021, 12:50:21 PM
We still help you. . . even if you don't listen at times. . . :P :rofl:
BRB buying 6th holster.
Post by: aletheuo137 on September 22, 2021, 01:10:11 PM
Bro, you took a joy out from my day today.Sorry!
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Post by: drck1000 on September 22, 2021, 01:11:03 PM
BRB buying 6th holster.That's how it starts. . .
Post by: aletheuo137 on September 22, 2021, 01:12:12 PM
we see this every time someone posts...Pot calling the kettle black!
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Post by: Flapp_Jackson on September 22, 2021, 02:22:14 PM
In the majority of people's including my opinion, Veritas is full of shit.
Similar to opinions of MSM.
Disproven in several courts of law.
Quote
Even with the most formidable opponents, the Project Veritas record stands at 7-0.
In stark contrast, even veteran journalist Mike Wallace was sued multiple times at
“60 Minutes” and chose to settle more than 100 times. More recently, you may
remember CNN settling a $250 million lawsuit with Covington High School students.
What continues to make Project Veritas so unique is no matter the attack, which have
been baseless lies, we are setting new legal precedent and winning every lawsuit litigated.
Post by: Jl808 on September 22, 2021, 03:41:04 PM
And the goal post has moved to “full of shit”? Just like the vaxx, according to the doc in the video.
Post by: macsak on September 22, 2021, 03:49:34 PM
Disproven in several courts of law.
CMO has told him/her/it this multiple times over the past few months, but guess who still says veritas is FOS?
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on September 22, 2021, 03:55:00 PM
CMO has told him/her/it this multiple times over the past few months, but guess who still says veritas is FOS?
It's impossible to break through some people's biased beliefs even with undeniable facts.
Such as it is with the hardheaded "moderate."
I think the theory that he has a learning disability makes the most sense.
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 22, 2021, 04:02:09 PM
It's impossible to break through some people's biased beliefs even with undeniable facts.When ones feelings arent supported by facts, then one forgets the topic that was already discussed. This has happened a few times this week already.
Such as it is with the hardheaded "moderate."
I think the theory that he has a learning disability makes the most sense.
.
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Post by: drck1000 on September 22, 2021, 04:02:26 PM
CMO has told him/her/it this multiple times over the past few months, but guess who still says veritas is FOS?How dare you argue with the majority of people's opinion?
Post by: drck1000 on September 22, 2021, 04:03:27 PM
It's impossible to break through some people's biased beliefs even with undeniable facts.If that ain't the understatement of the decade? :rofl:
Such as it is with the hardheaded "moderate."
I think the theory that he has a learning disability makes the most sense.
That implies some ability. . .
Post by: ren on September 22, 2021, 04:18:03 PM
Disproven in several courts of law.
show me the test target!
Post by: omnigun on September 22, 2021, 05:04:07 PM
So, can we say *something* was “proven in the court of law” then?
And the goal post has moved to “full of shit”? Just like the vaxx, according to the doc in the video.
As said before the won court cases have nothing to do with the legitimacy of their work. Or how they edit and doctor videos and lead on results.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on September 22, 2021, 05:05:00 PM
As said before the won court cases have nothing to do with the legitimacy of their work.
BULLSHIT.
That was the entire basis of the lawsuits.
Try again.
------------
Legitimacy: the state or quality of being legitimate.
Legitimate: according to law; lawful:
the property's legitimate owner.
Post by: omnigun on September 22, 2021, 05:08:00 PM
BULLSHIT.
That was the entire basis of the lawsuits.
Try again.
------------
Legitimacy: the state or quality of being legitimate.
Legitimate:
1. according to law; lawful:
the property's legitimate owner.
2. in accordance with established rules, principles, or standards.
Lol no. They got sued for wiretapping bullshit and slander stuff.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on September 22, 2021, 05:09:27 PM
Lol no. They got sued for wiretapping bullshit and slander stuff.
Wire Tapping and slander are both crimes. You know -- legal stuff?
What about that doesn't get through your thick skull?
Post by: omnigun on September 22, 2021, 05:10:21 PM
Wire Tapping and slander are both crimes. You know -- legal stuff?
What about that doesn't get through your thick skull?
They attempted to prove it and was found it wasn't duhhh Courts worked. Doesn't make their organization a good one.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Veritas
Post by: aieahound on September 22, 2021, 05:11:09 PM
No more speeches. I've done my part and can say I've tried to help on more than 1 occasion. Since he doesn't want to listen, it's on him at this point and can't say "I didn't know I was a X,Y,Z" or "No one told me I was a X,Y,Z" or "Why is my life the way it is, I wish someone told me I was X,Y,Z", etc...
Many people are X, Y, Z because no one told them. They get away with being it their entire life until someone brings them to reality.
^
+1
Post by: drck1000 on September 22, 2021, 05:20:03 PM
Post by: omnigun on September 22, 2021, 05:21:55 PM
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on September 22, 2021, 05:23:30 PM
They attempted to prove it and was found it wasn't duhhh Courts worked. Doesn't make their organization a good one.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Veritas
If you're talking about specific lawsuits, then go to the Veritas thread or start another one.
This is NOT about Veritas lawsuit details. We only went down this path because you have an opinion.
Duh.
Post by: omnigun on September 22, 2021, 05:26:19 PM
No more speeches. I've done my part and can say I've tried to help on more than 1 occasion. Since he doesn't want to listen, it's on him at this point and can't say "I didn't know I was a X,Y,Z" or "No one told me I was a X,Y,Z" or "Why is my life the way it is, I wish someone told me I was X,Y,Z", etc...
Many people are X, Y, Z because no one told them. They get away with being it their entire life until someone brings them to reality.
I'm a moderate on a republican leaning forum. We were never going to all go kumbaya. You all have opinions on me and I have of yall. I'm blunt and opinionated. As many here are too. It happens. Same stuff happens when I talk to liberal leaning folks. Nothing new. Politics is very partisan.
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 22, 2021, 05:34:44 PM
+ 5 more pages, coming up. . .Which we already discussed with him and he was wrong then and now. Omni wheel of error.
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Post by: ren on September 22, 2021, 05:36:12 PM
I did take the vax. So what. There shouldn't be any restrictions or mandates for you to KEEP YOUR JOB. Offer it at workplace - fine and dandy.
One more thing. Keep this thread on topic and stop making it about YOU :grrr:
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on September 22, 2021, 05:37:06 PM
I'm a moderate on a republican leaning forum. We were never going to all go kumbaya. You all have opinions on me and I have of yall. I'm blunt and opinionated. As many here are too. It happens. Same stuff happens when I talk to liberal leaning folks. Nothing new. Politics is very partisan.
You just proved his point.
You have no desire to learn or discuss. Your opinions are your facts. Nothing said here has ever changed that.
You forcing your opinions on the members here is nothing but trolling, since you have no intention of taking anything we post as valid. I'm not talking about the times you post "I agree." That required no more thought than arguing seems to for you.
We aren't here to try and change you. Why are you here again?
Post by: omnigun on September 22, 2021, 05:59:09 PM
You just proved his point.
You have no desire to learn or discuss. Your opinions are your facts. Nothing said here has ever changed that.
You forcing your opinions on the members here is nothing but trolling, since you have no intention of taking anything we post as valid. I'm not talking about the times you post "I agree." That required no more thought than arguing seems to for you.
We aren't here to try and change you. Why are you here again?
Kettle and pot. I've never said I don't learn things. I learn things from both sides. Sometimes I'm wrong . I'm not all knowing (unlike some people and voting). I've also changed opinions. But just the fact that we are on different starting grounds means many of our opinions won't match up. And clash...
That being said :stopjack:
I actually agree with ren. We are getting too divided.
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 22, 2021, 05:59:18 PM
What we've got here is a state of govt where they continue to divide the people. Mask no mask. Vaccinated no vaccinate. Next thing you know if you request a fork at a Chinese restaurant you will be kicked out because you are a racist. I really don't care if anyone takes the vax or not. It is always up to the person. Stop the divide. This is worse than the gender issue.Ive met way more vaxxed snobs vs unvaxxed snobs. Like 30 to 1 ratio.
I did take the vax. So what. There shouldn't be any restrictions or mandates for you to KEEP YOUR JOB. Offer it at workplace - fine and dandy.
One more thing. Keep this thread on topic and stop making it about YOU :grrr:
Make life difficult for the unvaxxed is just 1 example
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Post by: omnigun on September 22, 2021, 06:01:23 PM
That doctor isn't credible. The vaccine isn't shit. Get the jab.
Post by: omnigun on September 22, 2021, 06:02:17 PM
Ive met way more vaxxed snobs vs unvaxxed snobs. Like 30 to 1 ratio.
Make life difficult for the unvaxxed is just 1 example
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Simple statistics will show that. There are more vaxxed so obvious you would meet more. I'm starting to give up. Just let the unvaxxed die. Unfortunately might have to deal with more democrat government leadership in the aftermath.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on September 22, 2021, 06:07:31 PM
The project Veritas video is biased and designed to be anti vaxx talking point. The organization doesn't seek to be less politicized. Stop the divide.
That doctor isn't credible. The vaccine isn't shit. Get the jab.
The doctor was not part of Veritas, nor was he told by anyone in Veritas what to say.
It's called reporting the facts. Whether or not you agree or even believe what the doctor said isn't the issue -- according to you.
but, in reality, that's exactly what the issue is. Veritas is simply providing us what the rest of the news outlets used to: reporting. Actual reporting, not just opinions about what was said.
Also, how can a video be "biased?" Was it not an accurate representation of what was actually said? Attacking the messenger when you can't defeat the message is an age old tactic.
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 22, 2021, 06:21:44 PM
The doctor was not part of Veritas, nor was he told by anyone in Veritas what to say.Someone who doesnt understand things, wont understand what your getting at.
It's called reporting the facts. Whether or not you agree or even believe what the doctor said isn't the issue -- according to you.
but, in reality, that's exactly what the issue is. Veritas is simply providing us what the rest of the news outlets used to: reporting. Actual reporting, not just opinions about what was said.
Also, how can a video be "biased?" Was it not an accurate representation of what was actually said? Attacking the messenger when you can't defeat the message is an age old tactic.
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Post by: aieahound on September 22, 2021, 06:27:33 PM
Just let the unvaxxed die.:wtf:
Why not just let everyone infected die ?
Natural selection right ?
Fawkin’ science.
(Ah fawk! I replied.)
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 22, 2021, 06:37:52 PM
:wtf:Morals. That 1 word sums it up.
Why not just let everyone infected die ?
Natural selection right ?
Fawkin’ science.
(Ah fawk! I replied.)
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Post by: omnigun on September 22, 2021, 06:49:10 PM
The doctor was not part of Veritas, nor was he told by anyone in Veritas what to say.
It's called reporting the facts. Whether or not you agree or even believe what the doctor said isn't the issue -- according to you.
but, in reality, that's exactly what the issue is. Veritas is simply providing us what the rest of the news outlets used to: reporting. Actual reporting, not just opinions about what was said.
Also, how can a video be "biased?" Was it not an accurate representation of what was actually said? Attacking the messenger when you can't defeat the message is an age old tactic.
If you record a bunch of people eventually you will find a idiot. But if you only air that idiot that is not a representation of the overall population. Much like oils response about the opinions of the vaxx vs unvaxxed.
Post by: omnigun on September 22, 2021, 06:52:59 PM
:wtf:
Why not just let everyone infected die ?
Natural selection right ?
Fawkin’ science.
(Ah fawk! I replied.)
Can't save them from themselves. I support suicide. I was mostly worried about the innocents. Most people had the opportunity to get vaxxed so it's not a supply issue. Hospital statistics show most vaxxed live. With current treatments it's even better. While the ideal world would still have the innocents protected and their freedom restored I come to realize my input won't really change much especially here. So f it, let them die.
Post by: ren on September 22, 2021, 07:13:24 PM
This is pure unadulterated discrimination fueled by your own irrational, primitive thought. It is downright selfish. Bunch of fucking hypocrites. Same people screaming for equality this and that want to exercise discrimination based on vax this or that. Stupid. Grow the fuck up and accept life. Life has risk. Life is hard. Live it.
Post by: aieahound on September 22, 2021, 07:15:30 PM
Morals. That 1 word sums it up.
You were right.
See above.
Post by: ren on September 22, 2021, 07:18:31 PM
What happens when you come home and you find your child hanging in the f8cking closet.
I don't usually swear but when that topic gets tossed around like its trivial it hits home. Grow the f8ck up and check yourself. :grrr:
Post by: ren on September 22, 2021, 07:25:46 PM
Can't save them from themselves. I support suicide. I was mostly worried about the innocents. Most people had the opportunity to get vaxxed so it's not a supply issue. Hospital statistics show most vaxxed live. With current treatments it's even better. While the ideal world would still have the innocents protected and their freedom restored I come to realize my input won't really change much especially here. So f it, let them die.
The "Satanism" I "support" is the following:
https://thesatanictemple.com/
Post by: macsak on September 22, 2021, 07:37:07 PM
« Sent to: Heavies, Jl808, omnigun on: September 17, 2021, 09:34:06 AM »
to stop celebrating people's deaths that made choices you find inappropriate and to stop calling unvaccinated people "idiots"
have a great weekend
aloha
steve
Can't save them from themselves. I support suicide. I was mostly worried about the innocents. Most people had the opportunity to get vaxxed so it's not a supply issue. Hospital statistics show most vaxxed live. With current treatments it's even better. While the ideal world would still have the innocents protected and their freedom restored I come to realize my input won't really change much especially here. So f it, let them die.
Post by: omnigun on September 22, 2021, 08:47:39 PM
No morals, no ethics no faith in anything. This is where the divide starts. Let the _____ <insert what ever category of person here> die. Is that where we are as a people? So if a person did not wear a helmet and got into an accident medical pros would not treat that person? Kids get into sports and gets injured and you won't treat them because its a high injury sport i.e. football, boxing, even baseball.
This is pure unadulterated discrimination fueled by your own irrational, primitive thought. It is downright selfish. Bunch of fucking hypocrites. Same people screaming for equality this and that want to exercise discrimination based on vax this or that. Stupid. Grow the fuck up and accept life. Life has risk. Life is hard. Live it.
You can warn people to you are blue but if they don't listen that's on them. Some point evolution standards kick in. 👌 It's not discrimination. Unless you are disrmininating on intelligence, but even then not really. At some point people have to live with their choices. Or not. Judging people on choices is normal. Making rules based on choices is also normal. No shirt and shoes no service we do things like that all the time. We have limits on age, sex etc. Can't drink till a certain age. Use the right bathroom. Normal stuff. Don't need to jump to conclusions. We have had vaccine mandates before. You were in the military you should know this.
Post by: omnigun on September 22, 2021, 08:48:53 PM
i am going to politely ask you
« Sent to: Heavies, Jl808, omnigun on: September 17, 2021, 09:34:06 AM »
to stop celebrating people's deaths that made choices you find inappropriate and to stop calling unvaccinated people "idiots"
have a great weekend
aloha
steve
How is that celebrating? I haven't posted any of those memes either. Been avoiding that word too.
Post by: omnigun on September 22, 2021, 08:53:33 PM
Support suicide. :grrr: You are a sick f*ck. Total lack of empathy and immature. Plain and simple. People like you fail to mature into anything else outside of themselves.
What happens when you come home and you find your child hanging in the f8cking closet.
I don't usually swear but when that topic gets tossed around like its trivial it hits home. Grow the f8ck up and check yourself. :grrr:
Your body your right. It don't affect others it's your choice. Euthanasia, suicide those are all independent choices you can make. I don't encourage it, but I can't stop you. Drinking, abortions, even selling body parts or modification of your body. All freedom choices. If it's not a public issue then it's private. I have no rights over your private life. I thought you were pro freedom....
Post by: aieahound on September 22, 2021, 08:54:01 PM
Can't save them from themselves. I support suicide.
That alone should be enough to get him banned.
I support suicide ? On a 2A website ?
Among a shit of ton a folks who are friends ?
I’m pissed. :grrr:
There’s a line….
And backs it up with I support freedom ? :wtf:
Thinks people who kill themselves are exerting their Right to freedom ?
Moves goal post to euthanasia? That’s not suicide.
And I’m not gonna argue off tangent about that.
Post by: ren on September 22, 2021, 08:56:13 PM
You can warn people to you are blue but if they don't listen that's on them. Some point evolution standards kick in. 👌 It's not discrimination. Unless you are disrmininating on intelligence, but even then not really. At some point people have to live with their choices. Or not. Judging people on choices is normal. Making rules based on choices is also normal. No shirt and shoes no service we do things like that all the time. We have limits on age, sex etc. Can't drink till a certain age. Use the right bathroom. Normal stuff. Don't need to jump to conclusions. We have had vaccine mandates before. You were in the military you should know this. :crazy:
Don't jump on this BS "you were in the military" to try and relate because you can't.
You would never make it because you have zero morals and that is part of the framework that guides us. The military has values that we live by.
No Soldier would support suicide.
No Soldier would let another suffer because they didn't get this or that vaccination.
Post by: omnigun on September 22, 2021, 08:58:10 PM
That alone should be enough to get him banned.
I support suicide ? On a 2A website ?
Among a shit of ton a folks who are friends ?
I’m pissed. :grrr:
There’s a line….
Your body your right. It don't affect others it's your choice. Euthanasia, suicide those are all independent choices you can make. I don't encourage it, but I can't stop you. Drinking, abortions, even selling body parts or modification of your body. All freedom choices. If it's not a public issue then it's private. I have no rights over your private life. I thought you were pro freedom....
We legalized euthanasia, that's suicide. It isn't such a taboo topic. Even my elderly grandparents who supported it from the beginning because they wish to have control over their life.
So yes I stand by my statement.
Post by: aieahound on September 22, 2021, 08:59:53 PM
And that’s not even edited. Just finishing a thought because I read what I wrote.
Post by: ren on September 22, 2021, 09:00:43 PM
That alone should be enough to get him banned.
I support suicide ? On a 2A website ?
Among a shit of ton a folks who are friends ?
I’m pissed. :grrr:
There’s a line….
And backs it up with I support freedom ? :wtf:
Thinks people who kill themselves are exerting their Right to freedom ?
Moves goal post to euthanasia? That’s not suicide.
And I’m not gonna argue off tangent about that.
I see that combo. Not good at all. That's a very thin and dangerous line that person is walking on.
Post by: omnigun on September 22, 2021, 09:02:12 PM
Don't jump on this BS "you were in the military" to try and relate because you can't.
You would never make it because you have zero morals and that is part of the framework that guides us. The military has values that we live by.
No Soldier would support suicide.
No Soldier would let another suffer because they didn't get this or that vaccination.
Are you against euthanasia? Where do you draw the line for freedom of one's self? Is it just the word suicide? Should you not control your own life? And what happens with it?
The fact remains the military mandates vaccines. There isn't suffering around that rule before, why now?
Post by: ren on September 22, 2021, 09:05:20 PM
Post by: omnigun on September 22, 2021, 09:05:43 PM
I see that combo. Not good at all. That's a very thin and dangerous line that person is walking on.
A gun has nothing to do with suicide. As many have said before it's just a tool. It should never be factored in that's why we have skewed gun deaths. If you wanted to end yourself there's many ways and tools. 2a has no relevance.
Post by: omnigun on September 22, 2021, 09:07:19 PM
Your goal post moving is no f*cking joke you sick f8ck. First you said suicide and when someone pointed out the precariousness of you using that on this site you changed it to euthanasia. That's one end of the football field to the other. You should check yourself.
No I still support the right to suicide. Euthanasia is very similar. I support right to both. It's your life. How you live or end it, is not my right to decide. If you don't affect anyone else that is. If your method hurts anyone else obviously I don't support it.
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 22, 2021, 09:32:49 PM
That alone should be enough to get him banned.He supports freedom until it affects him. Like how freedom to choose to get vaxxed isnt in his belief. Oh wait, make life difficult so people get vaxxed, or "they can just test once a week". No problem. U guys are arguing with a lost soul. Hence why i dont reply, no matter how bad the post are.
I support suicide ? On a 2A website ?
Among a shit of ton a folks who are friends ?
I’m pissed. :grrr:
There’s a line….
And backs it up with I support freedom ? :wtf:
Thinks people who kill themselves are exerting their Right to freedom ?
Moves goal post to euthanasia? That’s not suicide.
And I’m not gonna argue off tangent about that.
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Post by: changemyoil66 on September 22, 2021, 09:33:20 PM
Your goal post moving is no f*cking joke you sick f8ck. First you said suicide and when someone pointed out the precariousness of you using that on this site you changed it to euthanasia. That's one end of the football field to the other. You should check yourself.Cant check ones self if he has no idea what goal post moving is.
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Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 22, 2021, 09:37:43 PM
I never said anything "can be predicted for certain." No doctor in his right mind guarantees a given result from any medication. There's alway a certain degree of risk that drugs will not work or will cause worse problems for a given patient. What they can do is offer an OPINION on the risks. It's up to the patient to accept them, not the doctors.
A prediction is different from an opinion. An opinion would be whether someone should take the drug/vaccine. Saying a drug has a low risk of long term complications would not be a matter of opinion because it is either right or wrong.
Quote
As of now, there's not enough information for the individual to make a truly informed decision, because there hasn't been enough time to really know all the effects of the vaccines -- no matter how many drug-maker-sponsored studies the government cites.
That logic risks being a moving goalpost. Medicines could take 80 years to approve because we would need to wait a person's whole lifetime to watch for potential side effects.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 22, 2021, 09:45:13 PM
Lets take lung transplants lists. If the list is just first come first serve then you inevitably have people upset because you might have a child with a birth defect being put after a 60 year old chain smoker. But if you decide to go with age and life potential remaining then the smoker gets upset because his is being morally judged. Either option introduces a morality aspect, or at least a perception of a morality aspect to it. Heck, lets take it to the most extreme example. Say a suicide bomber survived the explosion and was taken to the hospital with all the other critical victims. Can you imagine the outrage if a doctor worked on the terrorist before one of the victims or if one of the victims died because the doctor worked on the terrorist first?
I did hear that in some states doctors get priority in treatment because the reasoning is that when the doctor gets better he can help save more people, but even then someone could get upset asking why a doctor's life is worth more.
Post by: macsak on September 22, 2021, 10:29:20 PM
How is that celebrating? I haven't posted any of those memes either. Been avoiding that word too.
goalpost----------->moved
omnigun
Re: The Jab
« Reply #591 on: Today at 06:52:59 PM »
Hospital statistics show most vaxxed live. With current treatments it's even better. While the ideal world would still have the innocents protected and their freedom restored I come to realize my input won't really change much especially here. So f it, let them die.
Post by: hvybarrels on September 23, 2021, 12:58:31 PM
When it comes to the issue of morality and medical traige, I think it is impossible to fully separate the two. Whether a doctor, or a hospital policy makes a call there are always going to be reprocussions people will see on a moral level.
The whole point of triage is to take the moral element out of it so that medical personnel do not become emotionally overwhelmed by the gravity of their own personal decisions.
You're trying to politicize an algorithm in order to justify the mass murder of anyone who dares to stand up against reckless Big Pharma profiteering.
Shame on you.
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 23, 2021, 01:41:03 PM
Post by: QUIETShooter on September 23, 2021, 02:40:45 PM
There is only so many times you can earth and unearth the ground to the point it won't hold anything anymore.
Maybe we should just add compost and fertilizers to the ground and convert to a community garden?
And maybe Omni should just hold the goalposts in his arms since it's going to be moved again. ;)
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 23, 2021, 04:34:34 PM
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Post by: aletheuo137 on September 23, 2021, 04:35:55 PM
The goal post didnt reach the end of the earth yet.To the moon and back!
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Post by: drck1000 on September 23, 2021, 05:31:19 PM
#butthisderailismorefunner
Post by: aletheuo137 on September 23, 2021, 05:32:58 PM
#anotherthreadderailedBazinga!
#butthisderailismorefunner
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Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 23, 2021, 08:16:12 PM
The whole point of triage is to take the moral element out of it so that medical personnel do not become emotionally overwhelmed by the gravity of their own personal decisions.
You're trying to politicize an algorithm in order to justify the mass murder of anyone who dares to stand up against reckless Big Pharma profiteering.
Shame on you.
I can't talk about the morality of triage strategies without being accused of politicization?
How about you answer the question I raised of a doctor treating a terrorist who injured dozens before treating the people he injured?
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on September 23, 2021, 08:58:52 PM
I can't talk about the morality of triage strategies without being accused of politicization?
How about you answer the question I raised of a doctor treating a terrorist who injured dozens before treating the people he injured?
Doctors take an oath. To allow the terrorist to wait behind less serious patients would be violating the ethics of his position. Anyone who disagreed with his decision could seek punishment through the medical ethics review board.
Ethics are different than morals. They are standards professional promise to uphold. Not a political viewpoint, but one that involves trust in certain professions. How can you trust your doctor if they violate the rules you expect everyone, including yourself, to be treated under?
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 23, 2021, 09:13:01 PM
I can't talk about the morality of triage strategies without being accused of politicization?When EMTs pull in, do they state why the person is injured? Like "he was caught raping a girl and a bystander smashed his head with a rock". Or do they state how the injury occurred. As in "his head was smashed in with a rock".
How about you answer the question I raised of a doctor treating a terrorist who injured dozens before treating the people he injured?
But like u asked, what if the emt or someone else was wrong? So in a bombing, there would be multiple people brought in. And if there are no resources, then triage occurs via injury type. Someone bleeding out and pale vs. someone with a TQ on their leg and stable. Priority vs. routine. And if all have equal injuries and the bomber is there, then work on who ever is closest to you and work your way down the line in the hallway. Until all are cared for or the doctor is physically exhausted and cannot perform safely.
Doctors oath "do no harm". So to let someone bleed out knowing u have the resources to save the person is a no go, regardless why they are there. And refer to above if all resources are maxed out. Systematically, work their way down the lind.
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Post by: aieahound on September 23, 2021, 10:50:08 PM
Of course I would never do that.
That has nothing to do with being unvaxxed.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on September 23, 2021, 11:53:07 PM
Put one in the terrorist’s head, if it’s definitive it’s the terrorist, to relieve it’s pain and start treating people.
Of course I would never do that.
That has nothing to do with being unvaxxed.
It has to do with how the powers that be and their sheeple treat the unvaxxed.
#FOCUS
Post by: hvybarrels on September 24, 2021, 08:10:22 AM
I can't talk about the morality of triage strategies without being accused of politicization?
How about you answer the question I raised of a doctor treating a terrorist who injured dozens before treating the people he injured?
You're the one who tried to politicize the algorithm, not me.
Terrorism terrorism terrorism!
It used to be if you neolib dronebois shouted it loud enough everyone would run around in a panic and stop noticing all the rights that you were stripping away.
Them days are over.
Post by: aieahound on September 24, 2021, 10:44:20 AM
It has to do with how the powers that be and their sheeple treat the unvaxxed.
Like comparing them to terrorists? That was a stretch by EEF.
Was just trying to point that out.
With some dark, maybe, humor.
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 24, 2021, 11:17:44 AM
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 24, 2021, 11:19:07 AM
Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 24, 2021, 08:01:32 PM
When EMTs pull in, do they state why the person is injured? Like "he was caught raping a girl and a bystander smashed his head with a rock". Or do they state how the injury occurred. As in "his head was smashed in with a rock".
But like u asked, what if the emt or someone else was wrong? So in a bombing, there would be multiple people brought in. And if there are no resources, then triage occurs via injury type. Someone bleeding out and pale vs. someone with a TQ on their leg and stable. Priority vs. routine. And if all have equal injuries and the bomber is there, then work on who ever is closest to you and work your way down the line in the hallway. Until all are cared for or the doctor is physically exhausted and cannot perform safely.
Doctors oath "do no harm". So to let someone bleed out knowing u have the resources to save the person is a no go, regardless why they are there. And refer to above if all resources are maxed out. Systematically, work their way down the lind.
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My nurse friend I mentioned started as an EMT, sometimes they are told what happened, not simply the injury. People gossip but even then the backstory might help with treatment.
I brought up the terrorist example because I remember seeing a similar example before. I think it was a TV episode where a cop and robber who shot each other and the doctor had to decide which one to treat. It is an interesting moral/ethical dilemma.
It isn't an easy question. Some might prefer the ideal of a doctor completely blind to anything but the injruy/sickness of the patient but others might think doctors should make such judgements. Both sides have positive and negative arguments to them especially in the covid situation.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 24, 2021, 08:03:41 PM
Like comparing them to terrorists? That was a stretch by EEF.
Was just trying to point that out.
With some dark, maybe, humor.
Wasn't comparing terrorists to the unvaccinated. I just used it as a thought provoking dilemma to make people think if there is ever a situation where they would want a doctor to exercise a moral judgement in their triage.
Though your comment about shooting them into the head did cause a dark humor style idea to pop into my head. An ER doctor could articulate a logistical decision not to treat the unvaccinated covid patients by reasoning that once the public found covid patients were being turned away it could make more people become vaccinated and thereby reduce the crowding in the hospital.
I do know that one of the triage criteria in some places allows for the doctor of screener to place a Dr. or nurse at the head of the treatment line because once the doctor or nurse recovered they would then be able to help with the overcrowding.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 24, 2021, 08:05:29 PM
I just wanted to point out to EEF, that I do not reply as much to him since he is on so late. As in, at that hour, I'm no longer on a desk top so typing my full thought processes or info from a phone sucks. And playing COD.
I would join you but I haven't been into COD for a while. Looking forward to the next Battlefield though! But my xbox is having issues and I can't find the new series X anywhere!
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 24, 2021, 10:29:24 PM
My nurse friend I mentioned started as an EMT, sometimes they are told what happened, not simply the injury. People gossip but even then the backstory might help with treatment.Cop gets the benefit of the doubt.
I brought up the terrorist example because I remember seeing a similar example before. I think it was a TV episode where a cop and robber who shot each other and the doctor had to decide which one to treat. It is an interesting moral/ethical dilemma.
It isn't an easy question. Some might prefer the ideal of a doctor completely blind to anything but the injruy/sickness of the patient but others might think doctors should make such judgements. Both sides have positive and negative arguments to them especially in the covid situation.
Vs.
2 civillians in plain clothes. 1 uses deadly force in response to a crime. Cops show up and dont know what happened. Or a McDonalds worker in uniform at work and coworkers telling arriving EMT or PD guy in plain clothes tried to rob the place.
Different circumstances. Terrorist in your example dont wear identifiable uniforms. So room for error is greater.
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Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 25, 2021, 07:39:14 PM
Cop gets the benefit of the doubt.
Vs.
2 civillians in plain clothes. 1 uses deadly force in response to a crime. Cops show up and dont know what happened. Or a McDonalds worker in uniform at work and coworkers telling arriving EMT or PD guy in plain clothes tried to rob the place.
Different circumstances. Terrorist in your example dont wear identifiable uniforms. So room for error is greater.
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Surely someone who just blew himself up would be pretty bad looking and not easily identifiable as the suspect so that would definitely be a difficulty in taking it into account in a triage situation. But really it is just a mental exercise to make someone think about the implications of using or not using moral judgements in triaging people.
Post by: hvybarrels on September 27, 2021, 12:59:53 AM
Wasn't comparing terrorists to the unvaccinated.
Yes you were.
Absolutely 100% positively no doubt about it this is exactly what you are doing with your sick little authoritarian thought experiment.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on September 27, 2021, 01:43:16 AM
When it comes to the issue of morality and medical traige, I think it is impossible to fully separate the two. Whether a doctor, or a hospital policy makes a call there are always going to be reprocussions people will see on a moral level.
Lets take lung transplants lists. If the list is just first come first serve then you inevitably have people upset because you might have a child with a birth defect being put after a 60 year old chain smoker. But if you decide to go with age and life potential remaining then the smoker gets upset because his is being morally judged. Either option introduces a morality aspect, or at least a perception of a morality aspect to it. Heck, lets take it to the most extreme example. Say a suicide bomber survived the explosion and was taken to the hospital with all the other critical victims. Can you imagine the outrage if a doctor worked on the terrorist before one of the victims or if one of the victims died because the doctor worked on the terrorist first?
I did hear that in some states doctors get priority in treatment because the reasoning is that when the doctor gets better he can help save more people, but even then someone could get upset asking why a doctor's life is worth more.
Wasn't comparing terrorists to the unvaccinated. I just used it as a thought provoking dilemma to make people think if there is ever a situation where they would want a doctor to exercise a moral judgement in their triage.
[snip]
The discussion was about whether the unvaxxed could be morally "triaged" behind those with the vaccine.
Then you created analogies between the unvaxxed and (1) a 60 yr old chain smoking lung transplant patient and (2) a terrorist suicide bomber. You asked how they could be morally triaged behind other patients because of something they did.
I get that you were trying to illustrate your point with examples, but when the point involves the unvaxxed as the one being given the lowest priority vs. vaxxed, and the smoker and terrorist are in that same priority level, how are you NOT equating all of them? It might be in the context of triage, but what, exactly, did the unvaxxed do to warrant the lower priority?
The Delta variant isn't stopped by the vaccine, and most of the infections lately are Delta. So, if the vaccine is not stopping infections, why are the unvaxxed being blamed for it?
The smoker was a chain smoker -- it's a provable fact.
The bomber killed and injured innocent people -- it's a provable fact.
What did the unvaxxed person intentionally do to hurt anyone? Where is the similarity to the other two?
I submit that the only thing that makes them APPEAR similar are the unfounded prejudicial attitudes, beliefs and animosity of the person doing triage of the unvaxxed.
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 27, 2021, 08:46:54 AM
I would join you but I haven't been into COD for a while. Looking forward to the next Battlefield though! But my xbox is having issues and I can't find the new series X anywhere!
I'm waiting for BF or Halo to release toward the end of this year. Vanguard doesn't look that good IMO. I'm not a fan of the WW2 platforms due to lack of RDS, lasers, basically modern or future tech attachments.
Post by: hvybarrels on September 27, 2021, 09:11:09 AM
Why concentration camps are actually a good idea, and why it would be best if people like me are the ones to choose who gets sent there.
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 27, 2021, 10:19:09 AM
Next EEF thought experiment:
Why concentration camps are actually a good idea, and why it would be best if people like are the ones to choose who gets sent there.
Or another members thought process. Concentration camps are a good idea for the continuation of the nation. Science says the people in there are bad and have been peer reviewed and done by scholars who's credentials are impeccable.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on September 27, 2021, 11:26:14 AM
Or another members thought process. Concentration camps are a good idea for the continuation of the nation. Science says the people in there are bad and have been peer reviewed and done by scholars who's credentials are impeccable.
We should also have concentration camps for Religious and Pro-Life advocates, so they can be separated from the "normal," science-following, 3.7+ GPA smart people. No one should have their extreme right-wing conservative ideas "shoved down our throats," and it's the government's duty to protect us from ideas we don't agree with -- especially those ideas that involve morality.
If the government can't do it, maybe Twitter and Facebook can hire private security, because a private company can do anything they want without violating the Constitutional rights of its members.
Post by: drck1000 on September 27, 2021, 11:36:44 AM
We should also have concentration camps for Religious and Pro-Life advocates, so they can be separated from the "normal," science-following, 3.7+ GPA smart people. No one should have their extreme right-wing conservative ideas "shoved down our throats," and it's the government's duty to protect us from ideas we don't agree with -- especially those ideas that involve morality.Careful of that "slippy slope". . .
If the government can't do it, maybe Twitter and Facebook can hire private security, because a private company can do anything they want without violating the Constitutional rights of its members.
Post by: macsak on September 27, 2021, 11:41:55 AM
Careful of that "slippy slope". . .
trust the government!
Post by: aletheuo137 on September 27, 2021, 12:36:43 PM
Careful of that "slippy slope". . .Don't forget to put your slippys on!
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Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 27, 2021, 07:31:18 PM
Yes you were.
Absolutely 100% positively no doubt about it this is exactly what you are doing with your sick little authoritarian thought experiment.
Utterly false. If that was your conclusion you completely failed the thought experiment.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 27, 2021, 07:55:29 PM
The discussion was about whether the unvaxxed could be morally "triaged" behind those with the vaccine.
Then you created analogies between the unvaxxed and (1) a 60 yr old chain smoking lung transplant patient and (2) a terrorist suicide bomber. You asked how they could be morally triaged behind other patients because of something they did.
I get that you were trying to illustrate your point with examples, but when the point involves the unvaxxed as the one being given the lowest priority vs. vaxxed, and the smoker and terrorist are in that same priority level, how are you NOT equating all of them? It might be in the context of triage, but what, exactly, did the unvaxxed do to warrant the lower priority?
I think the basic argument for putting the unvaccinated at a lower priority is that they had a choice to take a vaccine which had a very high likelihood of keeping them out of the hospital and they flouted it.
A secondary argument, that I have not yet heard openly expressed but maybe passively expressed is that by putting the unvaccinated at a lower status they then provide an additional incentive for people to be vaccinated which would then decrease the crowding in hospitals and expedite returning to normal.
Quote
The Delta variant isn't stopped by the vaccine, and most of the infections lately are Delta. So, if the vaccine is not stopping infections, why are the unvaxxed being blamed for it?
The smoker was a chain smoker -- it's a provable fact.
The bomber killed and injured innocent people -- it's a provable fact.
What did the unvaxxed person intentionally do to hurt anyone? Where is the similarity to the other two?
I submit that the only thing that makes them APPEAR similar are the unfounded prejudicial attitudes, beliefs and animosity of the person doing triage of the unvaxxed.
I think the reason that the unvaccinated are being blamed is that the unvaccinated are the lions share of the people causing the hospital overcrowding. Personally I am all for freedom for someone's own choices over their safety, want to risk dying to avoid the vaccine? Fine by me. Same reason I don't support helmet laws for adults. The issue that sways me here personally is when other people start suffering because unvaccinated people (who could have been vaccinated) are overcrowding hospitals when it could be avoided. This is where it goes the decision to be unvaccinated goes from just affecting oneself to affecting others. Just today I found out my father has kidney cancer and so far the prognosis sounds relatively good but if he were in an area being hit hard with hospitals being filled up by the unvaccinated covid patients he could be told to wait till things blow over. I don't know about how fast kidney cancer is but waiting is not something you generally want to do when you find cancer.
Imagine this were wartime and the governor issued a mandatory blackout so enemy bombers couldn't find the city to bomb. Now imagine about 10% decided it was infringing on their freedom to have their lights on. Their intent isn't to harm anyone, they can argue it is their personal freedom.
The chain smoker and the terrorist were two separate thought experiments recently. A chain smoker, or an alcoholic for that matter, is a real life example, something that is taken into account whether someone is put on a organ donor waiting list. If someone hasn't quit smoking or drinking they aren't going to be candidates because why give them a new organ if they are just going to destroy it again. There may be additional medical issues but I am not sure. The terrorist thought experiment was a different angle, someone who outright and intentionally caused the triage situation in a criminal manner. The point of the terrorist example is to make someone think if there was ever a situation where a moral judgement should come into play. A moral or ethical position is easy to stand behind when never tested so I thought up the hardest test I could imagine relative to a triage situation.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on September 27, 2021, 07:55:48 PM
Utterly false. If that was your conclusion you completely failed the thought experiment.
LOL! I don't think he was participating ion your little experiment. He was offering an opinion of the experiment's premise.
If you're failing people because they don't agree with your suppositions and insinuations, you should give yourself and "F" as a thought experiment designer.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 27, 2021, 08:03:24 PM
For example when a conservative points out that Harris and Biden voiced skepticism about the vaccine but now are pushing it. Seriously? We are to take that as a serious objection? As if anyone here based their decision about the vaccine on Biden or Harris' initial opposition? "I am a Trump loving conservative who was going to get the vaccine but I heard Biden voice skepticism so now I am not going to take it" said no one ever.
These types of arguments irritate me and I see them all the time across various issues. Just make honest arguments
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on September 27, 2021, 08:05:19 PM
I think the basic argument for putting the unvaccinated at a lower priority is that they had a choice to take a vaccine which had a very high likelihood of keeping them out of the hospital and they flouted it.
A secondary argument, that I have not yet heard openly expressed but maybe passively expressed is that by putting the unvaccinated at a lower status they then provide an additional incentive for people to be vaccinated which would then decrease the crowding in hospitals and expedite returning to normal.
I think the reason that the unvaccinated are being blamed is that the unvaccinated are the lions share of the people causing the hospital overcrowding. Personally I am all for freedom for someone's own choices over their safety, want to risk dying to avoid the vaccine? Fine by me. Same reason I don't support helmet laws for adults. The issue that sways me here personally is when other people start suffering because unvaccinated people (who could have been vaccinated) are overcrowding hospitals when it could be avoided. This is where it goes the decision to be unvaccinated goes from just affecting oneself to affecting others. Just today I found out my father has kidney cancer and so far the prognosis sounds relatively good but if he were in an area being hit hard with hospitals being filled up by the unvaccinated covid patients he could be told to wait till things blow over. I don't know about how fast kidney cancer is but waiting is not something you generally want to do when you find cancer.
Imagine this were wartime and the governor issued a mandatory blackout so enemy bombers couldn't find the city to bomb. Now imagine about 10% decided it was infringing on their freedom to have their lights on. Their intent isn't to harm anyone, they can argue it is their personal freedom.
The chain smoker and the terrorist were two separate thought experiments recently. A chain smoker, or an alcoholic for that matter, is a real life example, something that is taken into account whether someone is put on a organ donor waiting list. If someone hasn't quit smoking or drinking they aren't going to be candidates because why give them a new organ if they are just going to destroy it again. There may be additional medical issues but I am not sure. The terrorist thought experiment was a different angle, someone who outright and intentionally caused the triage situation in a criminal manner. The point of the terrorist example is to make someone think if there was ever a situation where a moral judgement should come into play. A moral or ethical position is easy to stand behind when never tested so I thought up the hardest test I could imagine relative to a triage situation.
The alcoholic or chain smoker didn't hurt anyone else. The thing that makes them a poor candidate for an organ transplant only hurt themselves. What you failed to examine is whether or not these poor candidates should also be kept at home if there are limited hospital beds? Do they get a room and resources when nearing end of life ON TOP OF being given low priority on a transplant list?
To be technical, prioritizing transplant patients for organs is nowhere near what the word "triage" encompasses. Organs are not resources the hospitals can plan for, increase production of, or can be sure will work in all cases. Way different than beds and staff to handle increased demand from flu patients. There are alternatives to hospital beds, such as setting up hospital tents, using hospital ships, etc.
Interesting how the HIV patients were not blamed for tainting the blood supply -- the government was. Maybe blaming the government for pushing narratives that have little supporting data at this point is the problem, not the people not willing to take the vaccine.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 27, 2021, 08:07:44 PM
LOL! I don't think he was participating ion your little experiment. He was offering an opinion of the experiment's premise.
If you're failing people because they don't agree with your suppositions and insinuations, you should give yourself and "F" as a thought experiment designer.
When he thought I was comparing unvaccinated to terrorist and I told him I was not, then he should have rerun the thought experiment in his head again knowing that the point was not comparing the two.
Plus i think part of the point of a thought experiment is for people to walk through it using their own imagination and reasoning. I could spell everything out from the beginning but then he wouldn't be using his brain the same way. He should think through the process coming up with arguments and counter arguments instead of jumping to some simplistic conclusion that the two are being compared as similar.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on September 27, 2021, 08:09:36 PM
I have noticed that a number of the arguments people use against the vaccine are rather disingenuous. By that I mean arguments that people make because they sound good even though they know it haas no bearing on their position.
For example when a conservative points out that Harris and Biden voiced skepticism about the vaccine but now are pushing it. Seriously? We are to take that as a serious objection? As if anyone here based their decision about the vaccine on Biden or Harris' initial opposition? "I am a Trump loving conservative who was going to get the vaccine but I heard Biden voice skepticism so now I am not going to take it" said no one ever.
These types of arguments irritate me and I see them all the time across various issues. Just make honest arguments
You're looking at those arguments literally, which is your problem in most of these posts.
When Biden and Harris made their comments, then did a 180 even though the facts of the vaccine had not changed, it showed how political the government treats the issue. If I choose not to TRUST the government because they keep doing things like this, it's more than reasonable.
If your doctor tells you to take the vaccine, and then you see video of him talking to big pharma reps about how much of a bonus he'll get by getting more people to take the vaccine, does that not make you stop and question your doctor's motives and professional ethics?
It would for most people I know.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on September 27, 2021, 08:12:11 PM
When he thought I was comparing unvaccinated to terrorist and I told him I was not, then he should have rerun the thought experiment in his head again knowing that the point was not comparing the two.
Plus i think part of the point of a thought experiment is for people to walk through it using their own imagination and reasoning. I could spell everything out from the beginning but then he wouldn't be using his brain the same way. He should think through the process coming up with arguments and counter arguments instead of jumping to some simplistic conclusion that the two are being compared as similar.
Your experiment was designed to fail BECAUSE you omitted crucial information about the situations. A thought experiment needs parameters, or else it's useless. Broad questions create ambiguous and irrelevant responses.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 27, 2021, 08:12:17 PM
The alcoholic or chain smoker didn't hurt anyone else. The thing that makes them a poor candidate for an organ transplant only hurt themselves. What you failed to examine is whether or not these poor candidates should also be kept at home if there are limited hospital beds? Do they get a room and resources when nearing end of life ON TOP OF being given low priority on a transplant list?
You are overanalyzing it, I am not saying it is a perfect comparison. The point was that the person's placement on the transplant list is affected by their lifestyle choices rather than simply the patients current medical condition.
Quote
To be technical, prioritizing transplant patients for organs is nowhere near what the word "triage" encompasses. Organs are not resources the hospitals can plan for, increase production of, or can be sure will work in all cases. Way different than beds and staff to handle increased demand from flu patients. There are alternatives to hospital beds, such as setting up hospital tents, using hospital ships, etc.
You are correct, but like I said it isn't a perfect comparison.
[/quote]Interesting how the HIV patients were not blamed for tainting the blood supply -- the government was. Maybe blaming the government for pushing narratives that have little supporting data at this point is the problem, not the people not willing to take the vaccine.
[/quote]
Were people who knew they had HIV donating blood in large numbers?
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 27, 2021, 08:14:00 PM
If we were ever invaded and the invaders went to hpd HQ, u think hpd would destroy all reg info, or willingly hand it over with a smile?
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Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 27, 2021, 08:17:16 PM
You're looking at those arguments literally, which is your problem in most of these posts.
When Biden and Harris made their comments, then did a 180 even though the facts of the vaccine had not changed, it showed how political the government treats the issue. If I choose not to TRUST the government because they keep doing things like this, it's more than reasonable.
If your doctor tells you to take the vaccine, and then you see video of him talking to big pharma reps about how much of a bonus he'll get by getting more people to take the vaccine, does that not make you stop and question your doctor's motives and professional ethics?
It would for most people I know.
But who here, who would use that argument in the first place, would ever have been swayed by Biden's comments in the first place? I suspect no one. Out of all the vaccine hesitant people I have discussed the issue with I don't think a single one was ever a Biden fan, it wouldn't have mattered if Biden flip-flopped or not.
I like solid logical arguments. I dislike ones that are disingenuous, or empty, but sound good, no matter how much they support my position. I dislike dishonesty strongly.
Post by: Kuleana on September 27, 2021, 08:19:37 PM
Just today I found out my father has kidney cancer and so far the prognosis sounds relatively good...Prayers to your father, for a speedy recovery. :shaka:
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on September 27, 2021, 08:39:47 PM
You are overanalyzing it, I am not saying it is a perfect comparison. The point was that the person's placement on the transplant list is affected by their lifestyle choices rather than simply the patients current medical condition.
You are correct, but like I said it isn't a perfect comparison.
Interesting how the HIV patients were not blamed for tainting the blood supply -- the government was. Maybe blaming the government for pushing narratives that have little supporting data at this point is the problem, not the people not willing to take the vaccine.
Were people who knew they had HIV donating blood in large numbers?
In the beginning of the AID epidemic, there was no test -- primarily because they didn't know what was causing it. What they knew early on was people were dying from diseases that almost nobody was getting anymore, like rare lung diseases. Middle age patients were dying from things only children contracted. Once they realized it was an autoimmune deficiency, they then had to isolate how it was happening.
The first tests were a reutilization of hepatitis tests. That gave the CDC the ability to start identifying the rate of transmission and tracing contacts. The FDA didn't have an approved test until 1985, even though the existence of AIDS (formerly known as GRID) was becoming a major concern for the CDC by 1980..
Early on, it was theorized that the disease was only transmitted through Gay sex and sharing of needles among drug users, and for some reason those of Haitian descent. But, once hemophiliacs started contracting the disease through transfusions and blood products, the blood supply was already tainted and creating an even larger population of HIV infected patients. You can have HIV for a few months to many years before any symptoms, so knowing who had it without proper testing was an impossibility.
One very critical factor that kept the blood supply from being kept safe was cost. The suppliers could not have stayed in business if they had to bear the cost of testing every single donation.
It's a very complicated and draw out discussion, but that's the high level stuff.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on September 27, 2021, 08:42:08 PM
But who here, who would use that argument in the first place, would ever have been swayed by Biden's comments in the first place? I suspect no one. Out of all the vaccine hesitant people I have discussed the issue with I don't think a single one was ever a Biden fan, it wouldn't have mattered if Biden flip-flopped or not.
I like solid logical arguments. I dislike ones that are disingenuous, or empty, but sound good, no matter how much they support my position. I dislike dishonesty strongly.
TDS is real. If the Democrat nominees say don't trust "Trump's vaccine," a lot of their followers need not hear another word.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on September 27, 2021, 08:51:21 PM
If COVD patient A has no or minor symptoms, they go home and isolate. No hospital bed needed.
If COVID patient B is having a way worse time with COVID, they are normally placed on a respirator in the ICU. That's my understanding, but I'm sure there are exceptions.
Your father would not be in an ICU. If he's admitted for chemo, he'll get a regular room to rest in between therapy sessions. If he's not that bad, he could also receive chemo treatments as an outpatient, just showing up for the chemo and going back home.
The main reason beds is an issue for COVID is because there are so few ICU-equipped beds, not that there are COVID patients taking up all the regular hospital beds.
Even in NY, when Cuomo was crying about so many patients overwhelming the hospitals, they didn't use a single bed in the stadium "hospital" or the hospital ship Trump sent there for NY to use.
Don't believe the doom and gloom stories you're being fed. I'm sure some are true -- to a point. Most I have a feeling are blown way out of proportion.
I've noticed in today's victim-loving society, people love to exaggerate their plights.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 27, 2021, 08:59:55 PM
Your experiment was designed to fail BECAUSE you omitted crucial information about the situations. A thought experiment needs parameters, or else it's useless. Broad questions create ambiguous and irrelevant responses.
Parameters? The parameters are the context of covid. A thought experiment doesn't always have to have a right or wrong answer. Regardless, concluding that I was saying the unvaccinated are akin to terrorists is wholly unsupported and if anything just shows a defensive mindset, not an actual thought process.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 27, 2021, 09:01:16 PM
Prayers to your father, for a speedy recovery. :shaka:
Mahalo! Stage 2 and contained only within the kidney. I am guessing that since he has two kidneys he can probably just get one removed and have it be a safe bet that he will be ok.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 27, 2021, 09:04:18 PM
In the beginning of the AID epidemic, there was no test -- primarily because they didn't know what was causing it. What they knew early on was people were dying from diseases that almost nobody was getting anymore, like rare lung diseases. Middle age patients were dying from things only children contracted. Once they realized it was an autoimmune deficiency, they then had to isolate how it was happening.
The first tests were a reutilization of hepatitis tests. That gave the CDC the ability to start identifying the rate of transmission and tracing contacts. The FDA didn't have an approved test until 1985, even though the existence of AIDS (formerly known as GRID) was becoming a major concern for the CDC by 1980..
Early on, it was theorized that the disease was only transmitted through Gay sex and sharing of needles among drug users, and for some reason those of Haitian descent. But, once hemophiliacs started contracting the disease through transfusions and blood products, the blood supply was already tainted and creating an even larger population of HIV infected patients. You can have HIV for a few months to many years before any symptoms, so knowing who had it without proper testing was an impossibility.
One very critical factor that kept the blood supply from being kept safe was cost. The suppliers could not have stayed in business if they had to bear the cost of testing every single donation.
It's a very complicated and draw out discussion, but that's the high level stuff.
Gotcha. I had heard of people who had unprotected sex knowing full well they were diagnosed with having HIV so I thought maybe you were talking about something like that but for blood donations. In the case you were describing it sounds like much more a failure of the blood banks.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 27, 2021, 09:12:43 PM
Sorry to hear about your dad's kidneys, but you're inflating the impact of COVID patients on other patients.
If COVD patient A has no or minor symptoms, they go home and isolate. No hospital bed needed.
If COVID patient B is having a way worse time with COVID, they are normally placed on a respirator in the ICU. That's my understanding, but I'm sure there are exceptions.
Your father would not be in an ICU. If he's admitted for chemo, he'll get a regular room to rest in between therapy sessions. If he's not that bad, he could also receive chemo treatments as an outpatient, just showing up for the chemo and going back home.
The main reason beds is an issue for COVID is because there are so few ICU-equipped beds, not that there are COVID patients taking up all the regular hospital beds.
Even in NY, when Cuomo was crying about so many patients overwhelming the hospitals, they didn't use a single bed in the stadium "hospital" or the hospital ship Trump sent there for NY to use.
Don't believe the doom and gloom stories you're being fed. I'm sure some are true -- to a point. Most I have a feeling are blown way out of proportion.
I've noticed in today's victim-loving society, people love to exaggerate their plights.
As I understand the worst case situation currently going on in Idaho, someone needing chemo would not be greatly affected because it is an outpatient thing. But someone needing a surgery where one would be put under and be in a bed for a few days would not be seen. Not sure how significant a surgery a kidney removal is but in the worst case scenario he could theoretically be told to push the surgery back if it required a longer stay. But where is he now isn't currently facing that situation so I think he could avoid it. I am sure many other cities aren't there yet but a few places are, whether through more covid infections, fewer hospital beds per capita, or both.
I think I mentioned this before but I went shooting with a surgeon and he told me of a patient with a tumor that was discovered when covid was just beginning. He told me the patient had been turned away due to covid lockdown and hospitals prioritizing potential covid patients. By the time the patient came back and could be seen the cancer had spread. Now arguably this could have been the fault of an overzealous shutdown but the same thing could happen if hospitals did get overwhelmed as well.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 27, 2021, 09:16:28 PM
TDS is real. If the Democrat nominees say don't trust "Trump's vaccine," a lot of their followers need not hear another word.
Sort of a side note but I can't help but wonder, if Trump had won the election and was championing the vaccine that everything would be switched. The MAGA hat wearers would be pushing vaccine mandates and the liberals would be the vaccine hesitant wanting freedom of choice.
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 27, 2021, 09:19:22 PM
So history repeating. Even george takei is blaming the unvaxxed.
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Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 27, 2021, 09:48:32 PM
I wasnt old enough during the hiv/aids issue, but didnt people blame gay men?
So history repeating. Even george takei is blaming the unvaxxed.
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I wasn't old enough when it was just starting to hit but remember it being a big thing to teach in school in the 1990s.
It started as an epidemic mostly seen in groups of gay men. I think with the attitudes about homosexuals at the time it might not have been given as much attention or maybe people were hesitant to admit being gay? At some point it began spreading more beyond just the gay men party scene. I think people maybe blamed the gay community because there was a lot of casual sex with multiple partners.
This is kind of off topic but there was a very interesting documentary that questions a lot about the HIV/AIDS narrative, it is called House of Numbers and I think it is free to watch. Well made. One thing that video pointed out was that there was a drug that was commonly used among the gay party community and one of the side effects of that drug was that it inhibited the immune system so it may have at least partially explained why this crowd was dying from things a healthy person shouldn't. Good movie if you ever have downtime and don't know what to do.
https://www.houseofnumbers.com
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on September 27, 2021, 09:57:44 PM
Parameters? The parameters are the context of covid. A thought experiment doesn't always have to have a right or wrong answer. Regardless, concluding that I was saying the unvaccinated are akin to terrorists is wholly unsupported and if anything just shows a defensive mindset, not an actual thought process.
You say you weren't equating unvaxxed with terrorists.
So, how else is one to interpret the example of terrorists within the context of COVID?
I noticed you didn't mention China -- the most likely terrorist in the context of COVID.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on September 27, 2021, 10:05:16 PM
I wasnt old enough during the hiv/aids issue, but didnt people blame gay men?
So history repeating. Even george takei is blaming the unvaxxed.
Fear of AIDS simply compounded lack of acceptance for Gay men. If you do some research, you'll see that the Gay community in San Francisco actually fought the CDC in their efforts to reduce the rate of infection. In that regard, it's logical to blame the Gay activists for at least some of the spread.
If you're really interested in the history of HIV/AIDS and the government's problems trying to identify, test, and prevent HIV and deal with the blood supply, the movie And the Band Played On is excellent. A star-studded cast and great historical highlights make it educational and enjoyable.
You can watch it for free on YouTube.
https://youtu.be/O38zYpzqdZg
Post by: hvybarrels on September 28, 2021, 10:24:45 AM
ust today I found out my father has kidney cancer and so far the prognosis sounds relatively good but if he were in an area being hit hard with hospitals being filled up by the unvaccinated covid patients he could be told to wait till things blow over.
Sorry to hear about your dad, but you are basically begging me to flip the premise here.
Didn't your dad make decisions his whole life that could have led up to him getting kidney cancer?
Cancer is a very common disease, so he if willingly did thinks like eat spam and drink alcohol then he chose to accept the consequence of a higher risk category.
Why is that not grounds for putting him on a lower priority of care to make room for those who can prove that they tried harder?
Trust me, you don't want to live in the world you are trying to create
Post by: Rocky on September 28, 2021, 12:42:59 PM
That's 2 people I personally know who died after vaccination vs the 17 others I know (aged 13-20, 39-46 and 66-68) who were un-vaccinated, got covid, suffered mild symptoms and no hospitalization and carried on after a week or so.
Post by: drck1000 on September 28, 2021, 12:44:39 PM
Just had another person I know die of covd after the "The Jab" . :(Very sorry to hear that Rocky. . . condolences. . . :(
That's 2 people I personally know who died after vaccination vs the 17 others I know (aged 13-20, 39-46 and 66-68) who were un-vaccinated, got covid, suffered mild symptoms and no hospitalization and carried on after a week or so.
Post by: aletheuo137 on September 28, 2021, 12:48:32 PM
Just had another person I know die of covd after the "The Jab" . :(My condolences, prayers & thoughts go out to them!
That's 2 people I personally know who died after vaccination vs the 17 others I know (aged 13-20, 39-46 and 66-68) who were un-vaccinated, got covid, suffered mild symptoms and no hospitalization and carried on after a week or so.
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Post by: changemyoil66 on September 28, 2021, 12:54:10 PM
Sorry to hear about your dad, but you are basically begging me to flip the premise here.
Didn't your dad make decisions his whole life that could have led up to him getting kidney cancer?
Cancer is a very common disease, so he if willingly did thinks like eat spam and drink alcohol then he chose to accept the consequence of a higher risk category.
Why is that not grounds for putting him on a lower priority of care to make room for those who can prove that they tried harder?
Trust me, you don't want to live in the world you are trying to create
I was thinking something similar, but didn't want to go there.
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 28, 2021, 12:56:24 PM
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on September 28, 2021, 01:35:07 PM
A relative of mine got the jab and her first period came since getting jabbed and the blood was a lighter red than the normal darker red. Her period blood is always the same color, so this is something new.
Dark red blood is normally from a deeper internal origin ("old" blood)
Lighter red blood is normally from a source closer to the surface ("fresh" blood)
Not sure how that equates to menstrual fluid. I'd see a doctor about it.
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 28, 2021, 01:40:33 PM
Dark red blood is normally from a deeper internal origin ("old" blood)
Lighter red blood is normally from a source closer to the surface ("fresh" blood)
Not sure how that equates to menstrual fluid. I'd see a doctor about it.
She's gonna call her OBGYN. If this happens before or every so often, then no big deal. But this has never happened b4.
Where's our resident expert when we need him. I'm sure he's also a women's body system expert too.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on September 28, 2021, 01:43:50 PM
She's gonna call her OBGYN. If this happens before or every so often, then no big deal. But this has never happened b4.
Where's our resident expert when we need him. I'm sure he's also a women's body system expert too.
I'm not an OBGYN, but I have detailed files.... :wave:
Post by: drck1000 on September 28, 2021, 01:46:18 PM
She's gonna call her OBGYN. If this happens before or every so often, then no big deal. But this has never happened b4.Having seen one on porn makes one an expert, right?
Where's our resident expert when we need him. I'm sure he's also a women's body system expert too.
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 28, 2021, 02:08:14 PM
Having seen one on porn makes one an expert, right?
Or talked to someone who ever saw one, makes you an expert.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on September 28, 2021, 02:57:01 PM
Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 28, 2021, 07:43:25 PM
You say you weren't equating unvaxxed with terrorists.
So, how else is one to interpret the example of terrorists within the context of COVID?
I noticed you didn't mention China -- the most likely terrorist in the context of COVID.
I already explained the purpose of the terrorist situation. Using the terrorist triage question to make someone think about whether there is ever a situation where it would be appropriate to insert a moral question is not the same thing as saying unvaccinated people are akin to terrorists.
And conservatives aren't strangers to moral judgements in the application of policies either. This thought experiment was never an argument for one side or the other, only to get people to think critically.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 28, 2021, 07:48:39 PM
A relative of mine got the jab and her first period came since getting jabbed and the blood was a lighter red than the normal darker red. Her period blood is always the same color, so this is something new.
I have heard on the news that they have started to discover that a side effect of the vaccine can be an irregular period following the vaccine. IIRC so far it looked like only a temporary thing that would go back to normal after 1 cycle.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 28, 2021, 07:59:40 PM
Sorry to hear about your dad, but you are basically begging me to flip the premise here.
Didn't your dad make decisions his whole life that could have led up to him getting kidney cancer?
Cancer is a very common disease, so he if willingly did thinks like eat spam and drink alcohol then he chose to accept the consequence of a higher risk category.
Why is that not grounds for putting him on a lower priority of care to make room for those who can prove that they tried harder?
That is a potential slippery slope of applying such an idea. On the flip side should all government policy be devoid of any sort of moral judgement? Why push for drug testing or work requirements for welfare recipients. Either extreme presents problems, what has to be done is to find the right balance. What if the end result of putting the unvaccinated at the back of the line was that more people got vaccinated and thereby more lives were saved?
Quote
Trust me, you don't want to live in the world you are trying to create
Discussing the idea doesn't mean I support it, be careful not to jump to conclusions.
I posed a question to Flapp, I am curious your response to it as well.
"magine this were wartime and the governor issued a mandatory blackout so enemy bombers couldn't find the city to bomb. Now imagine about 10% decided it was infringing on their freedom to have their lights on. Their intent isn't to harm anyone, they can argue it is their personal freedom. "
Post by: hvybarrels on September 28, 2021, 08:18:04 PM
I posed a question to Flapp, I am curious your response to it as well.
"magine this were wartime and the governor issued a mandatory blackout so enemy bombers couldn't find the city to bomb. Now imagine about 10% decided it was infringing on their freedom to have their lights on. Their intent isn't to harm anyone, they can argue it is their personal freedom. "
Your comparison is totally ridiculous and based on the entirely false premise that jabs do anything more than temporarily treat symptoms before they inevitably wear off and become completely useless.
Then again I suppose they do have have some utility by serving as a long term example of why it's a bad idea to trust the government, the media, and self serving liars in lab coats.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 28, 2021, 08:29:36 PM
Your comparison is totally ridiculous and based on the entirely false premise that jabs do anything more than temporarily treat symptoms before they inevitably wear off and become completely useless.
That isn't what the current evidence about the vaccines show.Thought the effectiveness is waning they still greatly reduce the chance of serious illness or death. That is not merely treating symptoms.
Regardless the question is about when exercising freedoms can affect society as a while.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on September 28, 2021, 08:37:49 PM
That is a potential slippery slope of applying such an idea. On the flip side should all government policy be devoid of any sort of moral judgement? Why push for drug testing or work requirements for welfare recipients. Either extreme presents problems, what has to be done is to find the right balance. What if the end result of putting the unvaccinated at the back of the line was that more people got vaccinated and thereby more lives were saved?
Discussing the idea doesn't mean I support it, be careful not to jump to conclusions.
I posed a question to Flapp, I am curious your response to it as well.
"magine this were wartime and the governor issued a mandatory blackout so enemy bombers couldn't find the city to bomb. Now imagine about 10% decided it was infringing on their freedom to have their lights on. Their intent isn't to harm anyone, they can argue it is their personal freedom. "
The consequences of not turning out your lights in the circumstances of an aerial bombing have a direct cause and effect.
Not getting vaccinated has no such direct consequence. You can still get infected and spread the disease. You can still get sick after one shot and before a booster. Children under 16 are not supposed to get the vaccine, but they are not immune from the virus. Masks, hand washing and social distancing still need to be done even after getting the shots.
So, everyone turns off their lights -- 100% compliance. But, due to infrared technology, the bombers can see exactly where everyone is. The mandate did nothing to stop the deaths. Blackouts might have made hitting the target less convenient, but in the end, the blackouts were ineffective. I guess killing the 10% who wanted to turn their lights on accomplished nothing (taking the problem to its extreme solution).
Post by: hvybarrels on September 28, 2021, 10:22:33 PM
That isn't what the current evidence about the vaccines show.Thought the effectiveness is waning they still greatly reduce the chance of serious illness or death. That is not merely treating symptoms.
Regardless the question is about when exercising freedoms can affect society as a while.
"Greatly reduce the chance of serious illness or death" ....until it wears off.
And then you're stuck with unknown long term side effects and no safety net because you were dumb enough to sign a liability waiver for a sketchy medical experiment
In my book that sort of willful ignorance totally undermines any "moral" authority Team Stab has to weigh in on issues involving other people's freedom
Post by: Jl808 on September 29, 2021, 05:48:24 AM
It presumes that the unvaxxed are morally wrong for not taking a clot shot that is totally safe. It presumes that unvaxxed are just being stubborn about “freedom” and equating them to engaging in risky behavior, equivalent to having unsafe sex and getting AIDS.
Now, restart your thought experiment with an understanding that the unvaxxed are being forced against their will to take a clot shot that violates their moral convictions, has a chance of aggravating a medical condition that could lead to long term illness or even death, or both. Compound this with the possibility that they may not need this clot shot if they already have natural immunity from having recovered from Covid, or have alternative options to the vaccine for preventing and treating covid.
Would you still consider it morally right to triage them as a lower priority for being unvaxxed?
Post by: hvybarrels on September 29, 2021, 09:53:00 AM
EEF, there is one flaw in your thought experiment.
It presumes that the unvaxxed are morally wrong for not taking a clot shot that is totally safe. It presumes that unvaxxed are just being stubborn about “freedom” and equating them to engaging in risky behavior, equivalent to having unsafe sex and getting AIDS.
Now, restart your thought experiment with an understanding that the unvaxxed are being forced against their will to take a clot shot that violates their moral convictions, has a chance of aggravating a medical condition that could lead to long term illness or even death, or both. Compound this with the possibility that they may not need this clot shot if they already have natural immunity from having recovered from Covid, or have alternative options to the vaccine for preventing and treating covid.
Would you still consider it morally right to triage them as a lower priority for being unvaxxed?
Thanks for your balanced perspective. I'm losing patience with those who insist on casually comparing me with terrorists and traitors in order to justify taking away my rights.
To anyone who chose to get the shot I understand and sympathize with the fact that you were acting on the best information you had at the time.
I now ask you to please extend me the same courtesy by demanding a stop to this madness.
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 29, 2021, 10:02:53 AM
To anyone who chose to get the shot I understand and sympathize with the fact that you were acting on the best information you had at the time.
I now ask you to please extend me the same courtesy by demanding a stop to this madness.
Don't forget those like me who were coerced to get the vaxx.
Post by: hvybarrels on September 29, 2021, 11:01:32 AM
Don't forget those like me who were coerced to get the vaxx.
That's a good point. Sometimes I forget that not everyone has the means to slide back into independent contractor life.
No kids or mortgage also takes away the Jabbers' ability to hold them hostage.
Post by: drck1000 on September 29, 2021, 11:13:40 AM
In this case, I would want folks to look at it from a neutral perspective and look at it toward both sides. There will always be those who take things to the extreme on both sides, and I don't think you'll ever get those folks to see otherwise. . .
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 29, 2021, 11:19:22 AM
That's a good point. Sometimes I forget that not everyone has the means to slide back into independent contractor life.
No kids or mortgage also takes away the Jabbers' ability to hold them hostage.
Even if you were and wanted to travel. Now you have to test neg b4 returning. Say you pop. Now yo uhave to stay up there for 10 day min and spend thousands of dollars more. Instead of being vaxxed and coming back positive and staying in your own home. Their plan is to force vaxx from all sides. This way they get the highest compliance.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on September 29, 2021, 11:26:53 AM
Currently, a company that doesn't force its employees to be vaccinated in some situations (repeated violations, etc.) are being fined $70,000. That would increase to $700,000 per incident if this monstrosity of a budget bill passes.
The Democrats are trying to sell this bill saying "It won't cost the nation one dollar." Somehow, Biden figured out a way to magically produce money from thin air.
:crazy:
Post by: drck1000 on September 29, 2021, 11:28:35 AM
The proposed $3.5 TRILLION budget from Biden includes a ten-fold increase in fines for companies with 100+ employees.Gotta pay for the Obama Presidential Center some how. $800+ Mil! :o
Currently, a company that doesn't force its employees to be vaccinated in some situations (repeated violations, etc.) are being fined $70,000. That would increase to $700,000 per incident if this monstrosity of a budget bill passes.
The Democrats are trying to sell this bill saying "It won't cost the nation one dollar." Somehow, Biden figured out a way to magically produce money from thin air.
:crazy:
Post by: aletheuo137 on September 29, 2021, 11:39:17 AM
Even if you were and wanted to travel. Now you have to test neg b4 returning. Say you pop. Now yo uhave to stay up there for 10 day min and spend thousands of dollars more. Instead of being vaxxed and coming back positive and staying in your own home. Their plan is to force vaxx from all sides. This way they get the highest compliance.Ironically, I've traveled to two coast, visited 4 states, got a negative test, was cleared by safe travel to go anywhere in Hawaii but work. City is requiring another negative test from one of there approved sites. So I can go any where in the state but I'm not allowed at work even to drop off paperwork! Insanity
Sent from my SM-A102U using Tapatalk
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 29, 2021, 11:43:15 AM
Ironically, I've traveled to two coast, visited 4 states, got a negative test, was cleared by safe travel to go anywhere in Hawaii but work. City is requiring another negative test from one of there approved sites. So I can go any where in the state but I'm not allowed at work even to drop off paperwork! Insanity
Sent from my SM-A102U using Tapatalk
It's so people don't travel. Yet they complain that the Japan tourist market has basically died. Wonder how Downtown Vegas is doing without the HI market.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 29, 2021, 08:17:53 PM
"Greatly reduce the chance of serious illness or death" ....until it wears off.
And then you're stuck with unknown long term side effects and no safety net because you were dumb enough to sign a liability waiver for a sketchy medical experiment
In my book that sort of willful ignorance totally undermines any "moral" authority Team Stab has to weigh in on issues involving other people's freedom
#1 The liability protection for the covid doesn't last forever
#2 You can get long term side effects from covid too so acting like only the vaccine leaves you with unknown long term side effects is subjectively applying objections.
#3 There is no evidence so far that the protection completely wears off. And even if it did, so what? We get boosters for other things like a tetanus booster every 10 years. Furthermore evidence is showing that if someone has natural immunity and a vaccine they are better protected than someone who only had the vaccine. So you get the vaccine and still get covid but your survival odds increase greatly and after your body beats the virus you have even greater protection
Please note that I am not judging anyone who decides not to get the vaccine. I understand full well that there are numerous reasons that a rational person could look at and become hesitant. Furthermore bringing in a moral judgement would only serve to make someone defensive and push them away from the vaccine rather than push them towards it. That is part of the reason I don't support forced vaccinations.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 29, 2021, 08:33:28 PM
EEF, there is one flaw in your thought experiment.
It presumes that the unvaxxed are morally wrong for not taking a clot shot that is totally safe. It presumes that unvaxxed are just being stubborn about “freedom” and equating them to engaging in risky behavior, equivalent to having unsafe sex and getting AIDS.
Now, restart your thought experiment with an understanding that the unvaxxed are being forced against their will to take a clot shot that violates their moral convictions, has a chance of aggravating a medical condition that could lead to long term illness or even death, or both. Compound this with the possibility that they may not need this clot shot if they already have natural immunity from having recovered from Covid, or have alternative options to the vaccine for preventing and treating covid.
Would you still consider it morally right to triage them as a lower priority for being unvaxxed?
My thought experiment does not indicate any moral judgement in my opinion. I would say it is designed to tug on emotions to make people think but it doesn't decide what answer is the morally right one. Two people can run through the thought experiment and come to opposite conclusions. One might say the terrorist goes to the back of the line for reasons ABC and the other might say the terrorist should be triaged just the same as the victim for reasons XYZ. People may use morality to come to their conclusion but I am not morally judging what conclusions people come to.
A thought experiment might cause someone arrive at a conclusion they don't like but it isn't a moral judgement. In the case of the triage situation and how vaccinated or unvaccinated people should be treated or seen by society this isn't just a hypothetical anymore, it is happening in some areas. There are no clean easy answers to the question but it is one that has to be answered. I asked a cousin who wasn't going to get the vaccine what hospitals should do if they are overloaded by the vaccine and she didn't want to think about it, just said the hospitals will decide.
You are right though that certain pre-existing medical conditions would complicate a policy that places the unvaccinated at the back of the line. This would be, in my opinion, one of the stronger argument against using a triage system that prioritizes the vaccinated.
I wouldn't say I believe it is morally right to triage an unvaccinated person as lower priority compared to a vaccinated person. I can see a few positives to it but a number of negatives that I am not comfortable with.
My personal position on the matter of forced vaccinations is that I will never support forced vaccinations of any kind. I don't trust the government with that kind of power, though they technically already have it for members of the military. Now if a private employer wants to mandate a vaccine that I somewhat support since they are private. I think it is ok for the government to incentivize a vaccine but the line from incentive to force can get a little blurry.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on September 29, 2021, 08:44:49 PM
#1 The liability protection for the covid doesn't last forever
#2 You can get long term side effects from covid too so acting like only the vaccine leaves you with unknown long term side effects is subjectively applying objections.
#3 There is no evidence so far that the protection completely wears off. And even if it did, so what? We get boosters for other things like a tetanus booster every 10 years. Furthermore evidence is showing that if someone has natural immunity and a vaccine they are better protected than someone who only had the vaccine. So you get the vaccine and still get covid but your survival odds increase greatly and after your body beats the virus you have even greater protection
#1 Why else do you think they're pushing to get as many shots in arms as quickly as possible? Maybe BECAUSE the liability protection won't last forever?
#2 Who said you can't get longterm side effects from the virus? Who is "acting" like ONLY the vaccine leaves you with side effects? Nobody here that I've seen. If both the vaccine and the virus have a risk of long term side effects, where's the benefit IN THIS CONTEXT of taking the vaccine?
#3 The word "completely" is the operative phrase. Maybe not 100% completely, but the vaccine does become inert over a few months. How that affects immunity in the body is to be seen.
Regular annual flu shots are effective until the next annual shot. From what's being told to us, the COVID vaccine isn't effective UNTIL you get a booster. Then you may need another booster in 6 months (like Biden just had). Then you need another in 6 months, and another, and another. There are no studies, as well there can't be, that show the longterm side effects of taking these periodic boosters to continually force your body to develop immunity to a disease -- an immunity that's not even close to the level promised.
When was the last time you heard the term "Herd Immunity?" Is that no longer relevant for this virus? Now it has to be 100%?
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on September 29, 2021, 08:48:55 PM
Your thought experiment has another facet that you aren't including. More and more, the government makes these decisions. If we ever go to universal single-payer government run healthcare for all, we WILL see rationing, the same as we have seen in Europe.
My thought experiment does not indicate any moral judgement as far as I see it. I would say it is designed to tug on emotions to make people think but it doesn't decide what answer is the morally right one. Two people can run through the thought experiment and come to opposite conclusions. One might say the terrorist goes to the back of the line for reasons ABC and the other might say the terrorist should be triaged just the same as the victim for reasons XYZ. People may use morality to come to their conclusion but I am not morally judging what conclusions people come to.
You are right though that certain pre-existing medical conditions would complicate a policy that places the unvaccinated at the back of the line. This would be, in my opinion, one of the stronger argument against using a triage system that prioritizes the vaccinated.
I wouldn't say I believe it is morally right to triage an unvaccinated person as lower priority compared to a vaccinated person. I can see a few positives to it but a number of negatives that I am not comfortable with.
My personal position on the matter of forced vaccinations is that I will never support forced vaccinations of any kind. I don't trust the government with that kind of power, though they technically already have it for members of the military. Now if a private employer wants to mandate a vaccine that I somewhat support since they are private. I think it is ok for the government to incentivize a vaccine but the line from incentive to force can get a little blurry.
You need to ask "Who has the power to make the decisions on who gets treated and who must take a number." Pretending the individual in the ER or ICU has that sole power isn't realistic.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 29, 2021, 09:06:20 PM
#1 Why else do you think they're pushing to get as many shots in arms as quickly as possible? Maybe BECAUSE the liability protection won't last forever?
#2 Who said you can't get longterm side effects from the virus? Who is "acting" like ONLY the vaccine leaves you with side effects? Nobody here that I've seen. If both the vaccine and the virus have a risk of long term side effects, where's the benefit IN THIS CONTEXT of taking the vaccine?
#3 The word "completely" is the operative phrase. Maybe not 100% completely, but the vaccine does become inert over a few months. How that affects immunity in the body is to be seen.
Regular annual flu shots are effective until the next annual shot. From what's being told to us, the COVID vaccine isn't effective UNTIL you get a booster. Then you may need another booster in 6 months (like Biden just had). Then you need another in 6 months, and another, and another. There are no studies, as well there can't be, that show the longterm side effects of taking these periodic boosters to continually force your body to develop immunity to a disease -- an immunity that's not even close to the level promised.
When was the last time you heard the term "Herd Immunity?" Is that no longer relevant for this virus? Now it has to be 100%?
#1 IIRC the liability protection was for 4 years so there is ample time to get everyone immunized. Secondly the protection as I understand it isn't against people who get immunized in that window but merely that they cannot get sued within that 4 years. So even if you got the vaccine now, you could still sue after the 4 year window expired.
#2 If someone is scared of the vaccine because of the unknown side effects but not scared of the unknown side effects of covid then they aren't being objective because they are being selectively scared of the unknown. Don't get me wrong, the unknown is always a bit scary but I think if we look at the unknowns vs the unknowns the vaccine is the safer bet. We already know a number of long term side effects from a covid infection plus the unknown. Compare that to the unknown long term side effects of the vaccine. Both have long term unknowns but one has long term knowns. If I have to pick between two rooms containing unknown animals but I know one room for sure has a tiger then the room with the tiger is not the safer bet.
#3 In all the reporting and data that I have seen about the waining protection I have never seen anything that the numbers indicated the effectiveness decreases to a level where it no longer had any significance. IIRC the average flu vaccine has an effectiveness of about 40% so even if the vaccine fell from 95% effective to lets say 50% that isn't really an argument against it. A big part of the reason we get flu vaccines every year is because the influenza virus mutates so quickly, and because the flu vaccine actually contains multiple strains of the virus cause they can't perfectly predict which ones will go through a population. it isn't because the vaccines simply wear out.
One of my big objections is that the vaccine passport here does not take into account natural immunity which has shown to be quite effective and may even be more effective than the vaccine alone. Israel counts you as protected on their vaccine passport if you recovered from from covid and I see no good reason that we have completely failed to recognize that.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 29, 2021, 09:08:56 PM
Your thought experiment has another facet that you aren't including. More and more, the government makes these decisions. If we ever go to universal single-payer government run healthcare for all, we WILL see rationing, the same as we have seen in Europe.
You need to ask "Who has the power to make the decisions on who gets treated and who must take a number." Pretending the individual in the ER or ICU has that sole power isn't realistic.
That certainly is a valid question but I would argue that it is a separate issue. The question was how should triage policy be set, not who gets to set it.
Post by: hvybarrels on September 29, 2021, 10:35:44 PM
That certainly is a valid question but I would argue that it is a separate issue. The question was how should triage policy be set, not who gets to set it.
Who says we need to redefine triage? You? Who made you god?
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 29, 2021, 10:49:49 PM
Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 30, 2021, 09:05:00 PM
Who says we need to redefine triage? You? Who made you god?
Redefine? You assume everyone had a triage plan for pandemics in place. Not all triage models are the same either, it's not like there is a single triage model. G
Nowhere did I say it had to be redefined either.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 30, 2021, 09:06:04 PM
The media used to say hospitals near max capacity every flu season. So no diff from covid times. Or where they lying back then?which means why trust them now.
I don't ever recall hearing such a thing? Hospitals were threatening to turn away patients because of an inundation of influenza patients?
Post by: macsak on September 30, 2021, 09:21:44 PM
I don't ever recall hearing such a thing? Hospitals were threatening to turn away patients because of an inundation of influenza patients?
no, that's his point
ICUs are at 100% more of the year than you would think, especially during flu season
and no, they don't threaten to turn away patients during flu season
that's why people question...
Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 30, 2021, 09:30:01 PM
no, that's his point
ICUs are at 100% more of the year than you would think, especially during flu season
and no, they don't threaten to turn away patients during flu season
that's why people question...
But are they at 100% for extended periods of time and across large areas to where someone can't simply go to another facility? I know hospitals will experience surges and tell ambulances to take patients elsewhere but is it as bad as now? Are people being told to wait on essential surgeries and sent home if the condition isn't immediately life threatening? Is this happening all the time but we just never hear about it?
Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 30, 2021, 09:35:07 PM
Maybe this shouldn't be allowed at trials or do we allow morality to come into play sometimes and if we do how do we draw a line?
Post by: hvybarrels on October 01, 2021, 07:22:55 AM
I was thinking about the idea of using morality and I realized that there does seem to be other areas where morality is factored into decisions, even by the government. Take for example at a murder trial: you might see a family member get on the stand and testify about what a great person the murder victim was but why do we allow it? A murder is a murder, someone's life was taken, why does it matter if they were pretty or funny or had a bunch of friends?
Maybe this shouldn't be allowed at trials or do we allow morality to come into play sometimes and if we do how do we draw a line?
Now you’re arguing in favor of “guilty until proven innocent”? All these totalitarian wet dreams of yours disguised as questions of morality had me confused about your motives for a bit now I get it. For you morality is just another tool in the Arsenal for imposing your will on others.
You’re a psychopath.
Post by: drck1000 on October 01, 2021, 07:52:12 AM
Doesn’t take a thought experiment to see what that’s about…
Post by: hvybarrels on October 01, 2021, 08:34:34 AM
Now you’re arguing in favor of “guilty until proven innocent”? All these totalitarian wet dreams of yours disguised as questions of morality had me confused about your motives for a bit now I get it. For you morality is just another tool in the Arsenal for imposing your will on others.
You’re a psychopath.
On second thought labeling someone a psychopath is not helpful, just like labeling someone as autistic oversimplifies a complex situation.
These are actually a clinical diagnoses and there is a wide spectrum,. Just because someone shows up on a spectrum does not mean they are on the same level as Rain Man or Ted Bundy.
There are plenty of people on the PCL-R scale functioning in high levels of government and industry as well as many other common occupations.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyclay/2013/01/05/the-top-10-jobs-that-attract-psychopaths/?sh=35dc9c1b4d80
Unfortunately we now live in a time when our society has made a critical concentration of them in our elite classes and we have clearly failed to keep their worst tendencies in check
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Crm_lYaAmIg
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 01, 2021, 09:09:48 AM
Heard discussion on sports radio last night about how the NBA was trying, or more to the point testing was to get compliance via different approaches to mandates, penalties etc. Anyways, NBA is now as a point where they are up front about trying various fines and penalties to see where players didn’t comply, or where they noted a move to compliance. Where a couple of fines didn’t deter, so they looked to other ways to get conformance. As well as looking at which cities had restrictions and angling things that way.
Doesn’t take a thought experiment to see what that’s about…
So making life difficult to coerce compliance. Nothing wrong with this according to 1 person here, or was here. He's been MIA for a while. Maybe on vacation or lost access from work? Forum has been a lot better since he's gone.
Post by: drck1000 on October 01, 2021, 09:42:44 AM
So making life difficult to coerce compliance. Nothing wrong with this according to 1 person here, or was here. He's been MIA for a while. Maybe on vacation or lost access from work? Forum has been a lot better since he's gone.Compliance by trial and error. Oh, they don't care about that, try this. . .
It has been quite peaceful. . .
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 01, 2021, 11:46:33 AM
These are actually a clinical diagnoses and there is a wide spectrum,. Just because someone shows up on a spectrum does not mean they are on the same level as Rain Man or Ted Bundy.
There are plenty of people on the PCL-R scale functioning in high levels of government and industry as well as many other common occupations.
Unfortunately we now live in a time when our society has made a critical concentration of them in our elite classes and we have clearly failed to keep their worst tendencies in check
This is why I talk to those on the spectrum a certain way. As in I give them lots of breaks if they're doing/saying something that makes zero sense. But after so many errors, then there is no choice but to just ignore them. Depending on the situation, I try to help them out by being blunt, because maybe no one took the time to lay it all down for them. And do understand that even after being blunt, they may not understand what you're telling them. So I may have to lay it down again and again. Until it reaches the point of ignoring.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on October 01, 2021, 08:34:15 PM
Now you’re arguing in favor of “guilty until proven innocent”? All these totalitarian wet dreams of yours disguised as questions of morality had me confused about your motives for a bit now I get it. For you morality is just another tool in the Arsenal for imposing your will on others.
You’re a psychopath.
WTF? There is no reasonable way you can arrive at that conclusion from my post. All I did was question whether we should allow someone to testify about the victim being a good person and somehow you jump to guilty until proven innocent? :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:
Post by: eyeeatingfish on October 01, 2021, 08:48:43 PM
Post by: ren on October 01, 2021, 09:43:31 PM
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on October 01, 2021, 09:58:19 PM
all this vax vs non-vax narratives are just to divide us. Simple.
Worked for Candidate Biden -- and his trotting mate.
Post by: hvybarrels on October 01, 2021, 10:05:45 PM
WTF? There is no reasonable way you can arrive at that conclusion from my post. All I did was question whether we should allow someone to testify about the victim being a good person and somehow you jump to guilty until proven innocent? :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:
I'm actually giving you the benefit of the doubt here.
It's possible the reason you always seem to be leaning towards the side of statism/authoritarianism could be underdeveloped or suppressed empathy traits.
Lack of empathy is disturbingly common these days, and many institutional cultures work very hard to train empathy out of their work force.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1jGKsIAT9w&t=84s
Post by: hvybarrels on October 01, 2021, 10:30:16 PM
So much for operational effectiveness. The good news is that nobody has crashed due to a bad vax reaction yet. This is very concerning especially in heavily populated areas like Oahu.
https://www.deepcapture.com/2021/09/affidavit-of-ltc-theresa-long-m-d-in-support-of-a-motion-for-a-preliminary-injunction-order/
Quote
36. I personally observed the most physically fit female Soldier I have seen in over 20 years in the Army, go from Collegiate level athlete training for Ranger School, to being physically debilitated with cardiac problems, newly diagnosed pituitary brain tumor, thyroid dysfunction within weeks of getting vaccinated. Several military physicians have shared with me their firsthand experience with a significant increase in the number of young Soldiers with migraines, menstrual irregularities, cancer, suspected myocarditis and reporting cardiac symptoms after vaccination. Numerous Soldiers and DOD civilians have told me of how they were sick, bed-ridden, debilitated, and unable to work for days to weeks after vaccination. I have also recently reviewed three flight crew members’ medical records, all of which presented with both significant and aggressive systemic health issues. Today I received word of one fatality and two ICU cases on Fort Hood; the deceased was an Army pilot who could have been flying at the time. All three pulmonary embolism events happened within 48 hours of their vaccination. I cannot attribute this result to anything other than the Covid 19 vaccines as the source of these events. Each person was in top physical condition before the inoculation, and each suffered the event within 2 days post vaccination. Correlation by itself does not equal causation, however, significant causal patterns do exist that raise correlation into a probable cause; and the burden to prove otherwise falls on the authorities such as the CDC, FDA, and pharmaceutical manufacturers. I find the illnesses, injuries and fatalities observed to be the proximate and causal effect of the Covid 19 vaccinations.
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 01, 2021, 11:44:03 PM
Military flight surgeon LTC. THERESA LONG M.D. is blowing the whistle on blood clots/other vax symptoms that are grounding our pilots and air crews.She will be silenced with gag order...
So much for operational effectiveness. The good news is that nobody has crashed due to a bad vax reaction yet. This is very concerning especially in heavily populated areas like Oahu.
https://www.deepcapture.com/2021/09/affidavit-of-ltc-theresa-long-m-d-in-support-of-a-motion-for-a-preliminary-injunction-order/
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Post by: aletheuo137 on October 02, 2021, 07:56:49 AM
all this vax vs non-vax narratives are just to divide us. Simple.Keep it simple silly!
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Post by: eyeeatingfish on October 02, 2021, 01:50:03 PM
I'm actually giving you the benefit of the doubt here.
It's possible the reason you always seem to be leaning towards the side of statism/authoritarianism could be underdeveloped or suppressed empathy traits.
Lack of empathy is disturbingly common these days, and many institutional cultures work very hard to train empathy out of their work force.
Problem is that you are making false assumptions. I don't even lean towards authoritarianism. I would resist vaccine mandates even if the virus killed 25% of anyone who caught it and the vaccine was 100% effective merely for the fact that they would order people to take it.
What I do in discussing and thinking about a contentious issue is to look at it from both sides, to see the pros and cons of the arguments from both sides. It is easy to go tribal and fall prey to group think when someone doesn't see both sides of an issue. The thought experiments are not designed to sway you, they are designed to get you to see the other side. You don't have to agree with the conclusion but at least you can understand the opposition. Just like how vaccine skeptics aren't heartless selfish people, people wanting to pressure others to get the vaccine aren't authoritarians. I don't have to agree with my opponents conclusions but understanding their reasoning is going to give me a more accurate view instead of the demonizing style attack arguments that ignore the truth.
Sometimes you have to set aside empathy to see the logic or illogic of an argument and you see to have trouble seeing that doing so doesn't indicate a person's stance on an issue. It is interesting that you bring up empathy because as I see it both sides can make empathetic arguments. Empathy could lead someone to support vaccine mandates and lead another to oppose them.
Have you ever debated yourself over an issue? I mean really consider an argument for something you stand for and then trying to think of a counter argument? Then a rebuttal and a counter rebuttal?
I find it interesting you have a strong objection to the questions I proposed. Does that mean you arrived at a conclusion that you didn't like?
Post by: hvybarrels on October 03, 2021, 07:41:07 AM
What I do in discussing and thinking about a contentious issue is to look at it from both sides, to see the pros and cons of the arguments from both sides. It is easy to go tribal and fall prey to group think when someone doesn't see both sides of an issue. The thought experiments are not designed to sway you, they are designed to get you to see the other side. You don't have to agree with the conclusion but at least you can understand the opposition. Just like how vaccine skeptics aren't heartless selfish people, people wanting to pressure others to get the vaccine aren't authoritarians. I don't have to agree with my opponents conclusions but understanding their reasoning is going to give me a more accurate view instead of the demonizing style attack arguments that ignore the truth.
Wow, no gaslighting going on in that statement! ::)
This isn't just a one-off for you. I have been around long enough to remember your previous suggestions that we give up some gun rights now so that they don't take away more later.
"Common Sense" "Be REASONABLE" "Our Leaders Care About You" blah blah blah
It's pretty clear to anyone paying attention that you have chosen a side, and it's not the one of freedom and individual liberty.
Quote
Saruman's voice was not hypnotic but persuasive. Those who listened to
him were not in danger of falling into a trance, but of agreeing with his
arguments, while fully awake. It was always open to one to reject, by free
will and reason, both his voice while speaking and its after-impressions.
Saruman corrupted the reasoning powers. - Tolkein
Post by: hvybarrels on October 03, 2021, 08:46:59 AM
https://www.khon2.com/coronavirus/hawaii-health-officials-urge-vigilance-with-32-of-population-not-fully-vaccinated/
So the good news is if you have not gotten the shot (or got the first one and had nasty side effects that make you want to skip the rest) then you have plenty of company.
Don't let anyone try to pressure you into doing it by making you think it's just a handful of crazies still holding out.
Sooner or later as jabs wear off governments like ours will cancel passports in order to mandate boosters
Hopefully by then more people realize they were sucked in by a high powered marketing campaign and will have become more aware of the true risk/benefit ratios
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02532-4
Post by: eyeeatingfish on October 03, 2021, 09:14:21 AM
Wow, no gaslighting going on in that statement! ::)
This isn't just a one-off for you. I have been around long enough to remember your previous suggestions that we give up some gun rights now so that they don't take away more later.
"Common Sense" "Be REASONABLE" "Our Leaders Care About You" blah blah blah
It's pretty clear to anyone paying attention that you have chosen a side, and it's not the one of freedom and individual liberty.
Reasonable questions posed to make you think objectively about the issue are not gaslighting. If you see someone who is a moderate (me) and think they are someone on the far left then I don't know what to say to you. Rather comments that accuse people who support vaccine requirements as authoritarian are more closer to gaslighting.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on October 03, 2021, 09:18:44 AM
(https://www.khon2.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/8/2021/10/6-BREAKING-DOWN-THE-NUMBERS-ST-PKG_frame_3530.jpg?w=876&h=493&crop=1)
https://www.khon2.com/coronavirus/hawaii-health-officials-urge-vigilance-with-32-of-population-not-fully-vaccinated/
So the good news is if you have not gotten the shot (or got the first one and had nasty side effects that make you want to skip the rest) then you have plenty of company.
Don't let anyone try to pressure you into doing it by making you think it's just a handful of crazies still holding out.
Sooner or later as jabs wear off governments like ours will cancel passports in order to mandate boosters
Hopefully by then more people realize they were sucked in by a high powered marketing campaign and will have become more aware of the true risk/benefit ratios
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02532-4
When they approve a vaccine for kids under 12, that ineligible number is going to almost disappear
Post by: Jl808 on October 03, 2021, 12:19:56 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211003/8bcc92452aeef232918042fb58d1e951.jpg)
https://youtu.be/RrdeMjtNiJY
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 03, 2021, 12:23:39 PM
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Post by: macsak on October 03, 2021, 12:32:21 PM
Its almost like it in waves despite vaxx status.
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Post by: Flapp_Jackson on October 03, 2021, 12:36:12 PM
When they approve a vaccine for kids under 12, that ineligible number is going to almost disappear
No shit, Sherlock!
Care to tell us how many of the under 12 group will not opt into the vaccination? Closing schools showed a lot of parents how they can easily homeschool and improve their kids' education over the crappy indoctrination public schools force feed them.
(https://i.imgur.com/GLER31z.gif)
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 03, 2021, 02:09:31 PM
No shit, Sherlock!The problem is parents are back to work now. So staying home with the kids are harder. So vaxx due to parents having to work. Basically, one again being forced.
Care to tell us how many of the under 12 group will not opt into the vaccination? Closing schools showed a lot of parents how they can easily homeschool and improve their kids' education over the crappy indoctrination public schools force feed them.
(https://i.imgur.com/GLER31z.gif)
Nothing wrong with making life difficult. Freedom to choose ones own difficulty level of life/daily activities.
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Post by: Flapp_Jackson on October 03, 2021, 02:45:06 PM
The problem is parents are back to work now. So staying home with the kids are harder. So vaxx due to parents having to work. Basically, one again being forced.
Nothing wrong with making life difficult. Freedom to choose ones own difficulty level of life/daily activities.
Many parents work and home school nights and weekends. Nothing in the requirements say the hours spent learning have to be "normal school hours".
When you eliminate student body assemblies, cultural visits, and other non-instructive time, the students at home can read on their own (just like in many classes), do their homework, complete their reports and projects -- all while the parents work. And with today's computer based training (CBT) products, all the parents may have to do is help with the harder lessons and check their progress.
If they really need help, the family can hire a tutor to act both as a teacher and sitter. Then there's the home school groups who have one home teaching several kids, and the families help the homeschooling parent with expenses. Think of all the public school fees those parents are saving to offset the homeschool expenses.
I know a family with 5 kids -- all home schooled by their stay-at-home mom and a father making the salary of a local church pastor plus whatever other employment he could find to fit into his schedule. When you sacrifice things you don't need, you can get the things you want.
As long as the curriculum follows state-mandated guidelines, and the students can pass the tests, the format of the home school isn't set in stone.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on October 03, 2021, 06:42:26 PM
No shit, Sherlock!
Care to tell us how many of the under 12 group will not opt into the vaccination? Closing schools showed a lot of parents how they can easily homeschool and improve their kids' education over the crappy indoctrination public schools force feed them.
Who shoved a stick up your butt today?
Post by: eyeeatingfish on October 03, 2021, 06:46:51 PM
Singapore approaches disaster as vaccination rate exceeds 80%
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211003/8bcc92452aeef232918042fb58d1e951.jpg)
I wonder if they can determine how much of that rise is change in people's behaviors and change in test rates.
So for example if people get vaccinated and then stop making, stop washing their hands as much, and start gathering indoors again?
There is just so much data coming out about covid it is hard to digest what it all means and it is so easy to present data in a way that could mislead people to false understandings.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on October 03, 2021, 08:27:28 PM
Who shoved a stick up your butt today?
That's your response?
:stopjack:
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on October 03, 2021, 08:58:57 PM
Who shoved a stick up your butt today?I don't know what you were trying to do making such a comment, but it seemed to me you were trying to draw attention to something that doesn't have any significance.
"When they approve a vaccine for kids under 12, that ineligible number is going to almost disappear."
To be precise, when the government moves the under-12 population from "ineligible" to "eligible", "that ineligible number is" not "going to almost disappear." It will completely disappear. Under 12 is the only ineligible category mentioned in the story, and in fact, it's the only group the CDC says in "ineligible."
207,482 will be moved to the "Eligible" category. That's all. The total will remain the same.
As the "formerly ineligible" get vaccinated, the total will, of course, decline, but that will take time. Nothing "disappears" except an accounting category.
But, that's obvious....
:geekdanc:
Post by: Jl808 on October 04, 2021, 06:59:17 AM
I wonder if they can determine how much of that rise is change in people's behaviors and change in test rates.I doubt that Singaporeans will suddenly change their c19 safety habits (stop hand washing or social distancing) that drastically.
So for example if people get vaccinated and then stop making, stop washing their hands as much, and start gathering indoors again?
There is just so much data coming out about covid it is hard to digest what it all means and it is so easy to present data in a way that could mislead people to false understandings.
But one thing that can be inferred from the data is that the public policy premise to “vaccinate everyone to stop c19” doesn’t hold true. The same can be said from looking at Israel’s data.
If our public policy of stopping covid is based on this same premise (vaccinate everyone), then it is a failure of our policy makers to look at the data and actually keep the public safe.
Instead, why not look at alternative public policy strategies that has worked for dealing with C19, such making alternative early treatments available like they did Ivermectin in India?
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/10/dr-campbell-reveals-reason-behind-indias-ivermectin-blackout/
Post by: drck1000 on October 04, 2021, 08:14:23 AM
I wonder if they can determine how much of that rise is change in people's behaviors and change in test rates.On the change in behavior, I think I get what you're saying. Sort of along the lines of attributing drops in "regular flu" cases during COVID. Was it behavior, testing (quantity, frequency, reporting), or "other factors"? My non-medical and "not much time to dig deeper" opinion is that many automatically link causation and correlation, especially when those "facts" are conveyed via MSM.
So for example if people get vaccinated and then stop making, stop washing their hands as much, and start gathering indoors again?
There is just so much data coming out about covid it is hard to digest what it all means and it is so easy to present data in a way that could mislead people to false understandings.
A significant program that I have been involved in the past 2-3 years involved simulation and modeling with the goal of improving efficiency in industrial systems. Think optimization of say a car plant. Which functions go together or in series, and which functions can remain specialized and separately located. There are MANY human variables in those simulations and understanding of human behavior isn't as intuitive as many might think. See article below for some discussion on that.
https://amplitude.com/blog/causation-correlation (https://amplitude.com/blog/causation-correlation)
Post by: eyeeatingfish on October 04, 2021, 08:19:48 PM
On the change in behavior, I think I get what you're saying. Sort of along the lines of attributing drops in "regular flu" cases during COVID. Was it behavior, testing (quantity, frequency, reporting), or "other factors"? My non-medical and "not much time to dig deeper" opinion is that many automatically link causation and correlation, especially when those "facts" are conveyed via MSM.
A significant program that I have been involved in the past 2-3 years involved simulation and modeling with the goal of improving efficiency in industrial systems. Think optimization of say a car plant. Which functions go together or in series, and which functions can remain specialized and separately located. There are MANY human variables in those simulations and understanding of human behavior isn't as intuitive as many might think. See article below for some discussion on that.
https://amplitude.com/blog/causation-correlation (https://amplitude.com/blog/causation-correlation)
Absolutely. I think people often fail to question a conclusion they find favorable, they don't stop and think "what other factors might be at play?" It is understandable though, we aren't exactly scientific by nature. Some things are easy to measure, like for example when a mask mandate was implemented or ended. What is much harder to measure, and more indicative of causality would rates.
On your note about human behavior I have many times observed human behaviors which are really counterintuitive and in some ways detrimental, though they sometimes serve some other specific function. I can only imagine how human traits could hamper an increase in industrial efficiency. Sometimes people resist an idea simply because it asks them to change, not on any grounds whether it actually leads to improvement.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on October 04, 2021, 08:28:12 PM
I doubt that Singaporeans will suddenly change their c19 safety habits (stop hand washing or social distancing) that drastically.
But one thing that can be inferred from the data is that the public policy premise to “vaccinate everyone to stop c19” doesn’t hold true. The same can be said from looking at Israel’s data.
If our public policy of stopping covid is based on this same premise (vaccinate everyone), then it is a failure of our policy makers to look at the data and actually keep the public safe.
Instead, why not look at alternative public policy strategies that has worked for dealing with C19, such making alternative early treatments available like they did Ivermectin in India?
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/10/dr-campbell-reveals-reason-behind-indias-ivermectin-blackout/
I think we must remember to not judge prior goals and predictions too harshly. I think that many goals for vaccine mandates were based on what was known at the time about covid and the vaccine. With more time and information and with Delta prior goals might not make sense, they might not fit the data but that doesn't mean we were lied to. I think that before we had delta and the vaccine appeared to be 95% effective that a certain vaccination rate target made then would no longer be a realistic goal today. I have no idea what an actual realistic target should be
I think what is important is utter honesty in messaging from the government. As flapp suggested before have the government admit what they don't know and admit that they don't know how well something is going to work but it is a best estimate to try and keep people safe given what is known at the time.
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 04, 2021, 09:58:54 PM
I think that many goals for vaccine mandates were based on what was known at the time about covid and the vaccine.
.
Good thing rights in hawaii aren't supposed to be taken away regardless of the emergency, since what the government knows at the time can change...
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Post by: eyeeatingfish on October 04, 2021, 10:08:16 PM
Good thing rights in hawaii aren't supposed to be taken away regardless of the emergency, since what the government knows at the time can change...
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Law does give them that power (with some restrictions of course) but it is also supposed to be for a limited time, not a year and a half and counting!
Post by: hvybarrels on October 04, 2021, 10:56:40 PM
https://youtu.be/On5RYFbcxWY
Post by: hvybarrels on October 07, 2021, 08:41:26 AM
“The shortest time anybody has ever found a vaccine against any disease … is about 7 years, the average time is 20.”
— UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF MEDICINE BIOETHICIST ARTHUR CAPLAN
https://themostbeautifulworld.com/blog/vaccine-studies
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 07, 2021, 08:57:35 AM
Fetal cells have been used for decades in many products/vaxxes.
Post by: aieahound on October 07, 2021, 04:11:49 PM
My understanding is it’s mononuclear cells that can be obtained from a number of sources, including umbilical cord and bone marrow and reproduced in labs.
Plenty people want the monoclonal antibody treatment for Covid.
Not a real doctor should know more about this.
32 STUDIES THAT SHOWS HOW THE VACCINE MAY KILL YOU
“The shortest time anybody has ever found a vaccine against any disease … is about 7 years, the average time is 20.”
— UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF MEDICINE BIOETHICIST ARTHUR CAPLAN
https://themostbeautifulworld.com/blog/vaccine-studies
Here’s the guy’s page from NYU where he’s faculty. PhD.
Guess he’s vaccinated. Or quit.
Note the banner across the top of the page where they can schedule your vaxx.
https://med.nyu.edu/faculty/arthur-l-caplan
And, again wasn’t it Trump who was trumpeting about getting the vaxx out super fast. Unbelievably fast. Fastest ever.
“ Operation Warp Speed, a Trump administration initiative to manufacture COVID-19 vaccines as fast as possible, should be lauded as a successful endeavour in what has otherwise been a poor effort to deal with the coronavirus, experts say.
"No doubt, Operation Warp Speed is a huge success," said Tinglong Dai, associate professor of Operations Management and Business Analytics at Johns Hopkins University Carey Business School in Baltimore.
"You can like or hate the Trump administration, but no doubt, it's a huge success — unprecedented success."
Operation Warp Speed, a Trump administration initiative to manufacture COVID-19 vaccines as fast as possible, should be lauded as a successful endeavour in what has otherwise been a poor effort to deal with the coronavirus, experts say.”
https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/operation-warp-speed-trump-pfizer-moderna-vaccine-1.5806820
Post by: hvybarrels on October 07, 2021, 06:14:02 PM
And, again wasn’t it Trump who was trumpeting about getting the vaxx out super fast. Unbelievably fast. Fastest ever.
If what I think is about to happen comes true, someone else who didn’t get the shot will be leading MAGA in 2024.
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 09, 2021, 09:48:48 PM
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Post by: hvybarrels on October 10, 2021, 08:43:59 AM
Sickout or legitimately sick?
Post by: eyeeatingfish on October 10, 2021, 08:47:36 AM
Newest PV vid that Pfizer is avoiding the use of the term fetus cells used in their vaxxx. This really is not anything new, but like this entire covid situation, the public isn't made aware (full disclosure) of anything. Just do as the government says and don't question.
Fetal cells have been used for decades in many products/vaxxes.
A anti vaxer told me about this and it sounded so strange I didn't believe her at first but I looked into it and found out it was true. However when I looked into it further it wasn't as bad as initially presented. They initially harvested cells from aborted fetuses, back in the 1980s IIRC, to produce the vaccines however they kept regrowing these same cells over and over again for use. So it isn't the case that vaccines require a constant supply of aborted fetuses. In my reading I never saw whether the aborted fetuses that were harvested were from abortions that were necessary to save a mother's life.
Personally I am not sure what to make of this. I don't want people to have abortions just so we can have cells to make vaccines but if people are aborting the babies might as well use the corpses for something good.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on October 10, 2021, 08:50:51 AM
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/southwest-airlines-cancels-1000-more-flights-disruptions-increase
Sickout or legitimately sick?
That brings up an interesting idea. When it comes to the day where employees are to be fired for not being vaccinated we may see them all call in sick, at least until their sick leave is used up.
Post by: ren on October 10, 2021, 09:11:54 AM
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 10, 2021, 09:16:03 AM
A anti vaxer told me about this and it sounded so strange I didn't believe her at first but I looked into it and found out it was true. However when I looked into it further it wasn't as bad as initially presented. They initially harvested cells from aborted fetuses, back in the 1980s IIRC, to produce the vaccines however they kept regrowing these same cells over and over again for use. So it isn't the case that vaccines require a constant supply of aborted fetuses. In my reading I never saw whether the aborted fetuses that were harvested were from abortions that were necessary to save a mother's life.U pretty much explained most of it. Generations of cells since the 80s.
Personally I am not sure what to make of this. I don't want people to have abortions just so we can have cells to make vaccines but if people are aborting the babies might as well use the corpses for something good.
But do they still use new ones now? Planned Parenthood has been caught on camera admitting the sale of aborted fetus parts. They also receive millions in fed funding (our tax dollars) and donate millions to DNC politicians.
Sorry, derailed. Gerbil wheel got moving.
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Post by: eyeeatingfish on October 10, 2021, 10:15:57 AM
U pretty much explained most of it. Generations of cells since the 80s.
But do they still use new ones now? Planned Parenthood has been caught on camera admitting the sale of aborted fetus parts. They also receive millions in fed funding (our tax dollars) and donate millions to DNC politicians.
Sorry, derailed. Gerbil wheel got moving.
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I am sure the corpses are used for something, just couldn't confirm whether they are used for vaccines
Post by: groveler on October 10, 2021, 10:46:13 AM
I am sure the corpses are used for something, just couldn't confirm whether they are used for vaccinesVeal-Parmesan,
for the Planned parenthood corporate luncheons.
>:D
Post by: aieahound on October 10, 2021, 11:26:34 AM
(Bad joke. It just popped in my head.)
Post by: hvybarrels on October 10, 2021, 12:41:58 PM
Post by: eyeeatingfish on October 10, 2021, 08:36:13 PM
It would be nice to get an ingredients list of what’s in the vaccines but apparently that is trade secret information and profits are more important than public health
https://portal.ct.gov/Coronavirus/Covid-19-Knowledge-Base/Vaccine-Ingredients
Post by: Teichi on October 10, 2021, 08:40:42 PM
Post by: hvybarrels on October 11, 2021, 10:29:16 AM
https://portal.ct.gov/Coronavirus/Covid-19-Knowledge-Base/Vaccine-Ingredients
“We told you the ingredients. It’s our super duper proprietary blend. Now stop asking questions.”
Post by: hvybarrels on October 11, 2021, 10:33:17 AM
Quote
Unfortunately what this means is that now for anyone over 30 you are more likely to get infected, yes, adjusted for the population that is vaccinated, if you are vaccinated. Indeed in the 40-49 age group you're close to double as probable on a per-population basis.
This means that if your employer mandates the jabs he or she can be sued for putting those who can't get vaccinated at double the risk, on purpose, by enforcing the mandate.
(https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?get_gallerynr=11820)
Post by: Inspector on October 11, 2021, 11:27:29 AM
Some film and TV sets have been thrown into chaos as A-list holdouts have caused work stoppages
https://thegreggjarrett.com/disney-reportedly-beginning-sticker-system-to-identify-vaccinated-workers-on-production-sets/
What’s next? Yellow 6 point stars sewn onto the arm of your clothes?
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 11, 2021, 11:35:10 AM
Disney Reportedly Beginning ‘Sticker’ System to Identify Vaccinated Workers on Production Sets
Some film and TV sets have been thrown into chaos as A-list holdouts have caused work stoppages
https://thegreggjarrett.com/disney-reportedly-beginning-sticker-system-to-identify-vaccinated-workers-on-production-sets/
What’s next? Yellow 6 point stars sewn onto the arm of your clothes?
The Nazi's did control the German film industry in WW2.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on October 11, 2021, 07:15:27 PM
Disney Reportedly Beginning ‘Sticker’ System to Identify Vaccinated Workers on Production Sets
Some film and TV sets have been thrown into chaos as A-list holdouts have caused work stoppages
https://thegreggjarrett.com/disney-reportedly-beginning-sticker-system-to-identify-vaccinated-workers-on-production-sets/
What’s next? Yellow 6 point stars sewn onto the arm of your clothes?
Really? An "i'm vaccinated" sticker is now like holocaust stars? That's just ridiculous, they aren't even close to being the same thing.
Post by: ren on October 11, 2021, 07:19:17 PM
Post by: macsak on October 11, 2021, 07:33:40 PM
Really? An "i'm vaccinated" sticker is now like holocaust stars? That's just ridiculous, they aren't even close to being the same thing.
swoooooosh
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 11, 2021, 07:48:31 PM
Really? An "i'm vaccinated" sticker is now like holocaust stars? That's just ridiculous, they aren't even close to being the same thing.Read my how the holocaust happened thread. 1st post.
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Post by: hvybarrels on October 11, 2021, 09:09:57 PM
Really? An "i'm vaccinated" sticker is now like holocaust stars? That's just ridiculous, they aren't even close to being the same thing.
Come on guys, camping is fun as long as you concentrate hard enough!
Post by: Inspector on October 12, 2021, 04:57:20 AM
Really? An "i'm vaccinated" sticker is now like holocaust stars? That's just ridiculous, they aren't even close to being the same thing.You missed the point entirely.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on October 12, 2021, 02:14:57 PM
You missed the point entirely.
I'm starting to see a pattern...
:rofl:
Post by: Inspector on October 12, 2021, 04:15:52 PM
I'm starting to see a pattern...Exactly!!! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
:rofl:
Post by: ren on October 12, 2021, 04:20:05 PM
I'm starting to see a pattern...
:rofl:
range too far?
Post by: aletheuo137 on October 12, 2021, 04:27:54 PM
range too far?Goal post moved to Lanai.
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Post by: eyeeatingfish on October 12, 2021, 10:00:14 PM
Read my how the holocaust happened thread. 1st post.
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I am familiar. Comparing this to the holocaust is a huge hyperbole.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on October 12, 2021, 10:01:16 PM
You missed the point entirely.
Or how about this: I simply don't agree with the point... MIND BLOWIN!
You want to find superficial similarities between the holocaust and vaccine mandates? Sure we can look around and find a number of them but saying the vaccine mandates are actually like the holocaust is just plain ridiculous and the realm of the most nutty conspiracy stories. It completely ignores reality.
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 12, 2021, 11:12:00 PM
Or how about this: I simply don't agree with the point... MIND BLOWIN!German non military citizens between 1936-1945 would agree with you.
You want to find superficial similarities between the holocaust and vaccine mandates? Sure we can look around and find a number of them but saying the vaccine mandates are actually like the holocaust is just plain ridiculous and the realm of the most nutty conspiracy stories. It completely ignores reality.
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Post by: Inspector on October 13, 2021, 01:53:15 AM
Or how about this: I simply don't agree with the point... MIND BLOWIN!Just keep trying to shut down my opinion. You don’t want to discuss this, you just want to try and belittle my opinion. Way to go trying to open people’s minds and have a real discussion. Put downs again are not a good way to attempt a discussion. I did not do that to you. Why would you do that to me? Don’t answer that. I already know.
You want to find superficial similarities between the holocaust and vaccine mandates? Sure we can look around and find a number of them but saying the vaccine mandates are actually like the holocaust is just plain ridiculous and the realm of the most nutty conspiracy stories. It completely ignores reality.
Your tactics are cancel culture BS. Go find someone else to try and use your tactics on. Lying about wanting real discussion and then trying to use cancel culture tactics to try and shut me up is not being intellectually honest. Just stop.
Post by: hvybarrels on October 13, 2021, 08:52:58 AM
Just keep trying to shut down my opinion. You don’t want to discuss this, you just want to try and belittle my opinion. Way to go trying to open people’s minds and have a real discussion.
That’s the overall strategy of media censorship these days
Meanwhile they are quietly building the camps
https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/australia-building-quarantine-camps-ongoing-operations
Post by: Jl808 on October 13, 2021, 10:42:46 PM
STEW PETERS SHOW
Nurse Whistleblower Breaks Down, Cries in LIVE Tell-All Interview
https://www.redvoicemedia.com/2021/09/nurse-whistleblower-breaks-down-cries-in-live-tell-all-interview/
Post by: Inspector on October 14, 2021, 01:22:52 AM
That’s the overall strategy of media censorship these daysI believe I heard they were building the camps several months ago. This just verifies that it is ongoing.
Meanwhile they are quietly building the camps
https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/australia-building-quarantine-camps-ongoing-operations
Post by: omnigun on October 14, 2021, 06:18:48 AM
Post by: hvybarrels on October 14, 2021, 10:16:33 AM
Post by: Inspector on October 14, 2021, 10:19:55 AM
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 14, 2021, 11:54:01 AM
👏 👏 👏
While you were gone you missed the following:
1) Threads went on for pages because Omni doesn't understand things and refuses to admit he is wrong
2) Then after many pages, if he does admit he was wrong, it's a half baked admission. Like "I was wrong, but.." or "maybe you're right". Uses deflection a lot.
3) He also moved goal post when proven wrong, refer to #1 also about needlessly long post. And why he brings up the same faulty arguments because it's hard to remember lies.
4) I broke it down to him in 3 post that he is the problem. I was very direct and not beating around the bush
5) Since then, I have stopped replying to him. But he still feels the need to reply to me, even after I told him he won't get a reply. Then he sites freedom hoping to get a reply. Slow learner I guess.
6) He has been banned twice already, and still thinks it's not his fault. Refer to #2 above
7) He has been back only 1 day and already his post are contradicting himself and doesn't understand concepts still (SWOOOOOOOOOOOOOSSSSHHHHHHH)
8) EEF's arguments are better than his, so that's why I respond to EEF on occasion
9) He's been puffing his chest more prior to being banned. Guess faulty arguments run out after so many weeks, so need to make self feel like the big man on campus is needed. But we all see thru it.
10) Like's to assume things until someone post "please show me where...". Then after making the wrong assumption, refer to #1 and #2 again.
11) He post links to back up his arguments, but doesn't actually read past the title or 1st paragraph because said link prove he is wrong still. Then refer back to #2 again and #1
Im sure there is more, but this is just what comes off the top of my head right now. So I chose not to reply. Others do, but that's their choice. Only reason why I haven't blocked him is because me and others get a laugh at his expense when ever he post something. And these are hardcore DNC friends who also are laughing. It's like talking to an anti gunner who wants to ban "assault rifles". They are proven their logic based on feelings is wrong, and no amount of evidence you provide will change that feeling.
Post by: aletheuo137 on October 14, 2021, 12:03:07 PM
While you were gone you missed the following:Hey, don't scare him away, he just got back! I know its Halloween but slow you ride, pump your brakes.
1) Threads went on for pages because Omni doesn't understand things and refuses to admit he is wrong
2) Then after many pages, if he does admit he was wrong, it's a half baked admission. Like "I was wrong, but.." or "maybe you're right". Uses deflection a lot.
3) He also moved goal post when proven wrong, refer to #1 also about needlessly long post. And why he brings up the same faulty arguments because it's hard to remember lies.
4) I broke it down to him in 3 post that he is the problem. I was very direct and not beating around the bush
5) Since then, I have stopped replying to him. But he still feels the need to reply to me, even after I told him he won't get a reply. Then he sites freedom hoping to get a reply. Slow learner I guess.
6) He has been banned twice already, and still thinks it's not his fault. Refer to #2 above
7) He has been back only 1 day and already his post are contradicting himself and doesn't understand concepts still (SWOOOOOOOOOOOOOSSSSHHHHHHH)
8) EEF's arguments are better than his, so that's why I respond to EEF on occasion
9) He's been puffing his chest more prior to being banned. Guess faulty arguments run out after so many weeks, so need to make self feel like the big man on campus is needed. But we all see thru it.
10) Like's to assume things until someone post "please show me where...". Then after making the wrong assumption, refer to #1 and #2 again.
11) He post links to back up his arguments, but doesn't actually read past the title or 1st paragraph because said link prove he is wrong still. Then refer back to #2 again and #1
Im sure there is more, but this is just what comes off the top of my head right now. So I chose not to reply. Others do, but that's their choice. Only reason why I haven't blocked him is because me and others get a laugh at his expense when ever he post something. And these are hardcore DNC friends who also are laughing. It's like talking to an anti gunner who wants to ban "assault rifles". They are proven their logic based on feelings is wrong, and no amount of evidence you provide will change that feeling.
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Post by: changemyoil66 on October 14, 2021, 12:08:46 PM
Hey, don't scare him away, he just got back! I know its Halloween but slow you ride, pump your brakes.
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He won't be scared away. You need to understand what is being said first. Which he won't get anyways.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on October 14, 2021, 12:11:08 PM
While you were gone you missed the following:
1) Threads went on for pages because Omni doesn't understand things and refuses to admit he is wrong
2) Then after many pages, if he does admit he was wrong, it's a half baked admission. Like "I was wrong, but.." or "maybe you're right". Uses deflection a lot.
3) He also moved goal post when proven wrong, refer to #1 also about needlessly long post. And why he brings up the same faulty arguments because it's hard to remember lies.
4) I broke it down to him in 3 post that he is the problem. I was very direct and not beating around the bush
5) Since then, I have stopped replying to him. But he still feels the need to reply to me, even after I told him he won't get a reply. Then he sites freedom hoping to get a reply. Slow learner I guess.
6) He has been banned twice already, and still thinks it's not his fault. Refer to #2 above
7) He has been back only 1 day and already his post are contradicting himself and doesn't understand concepts still (SWOOOOOOOOOOOOOSSSSHHHHHHH)
8) EEF's arguments are better than his, so that's why I respond to EEF on occasion
9) He's been puffing his chest more prior to being banned. Guess faulty arguments run out after so many weeks, so need to make self feel like the big man on campus is needed. But we all see thru it.
10) Like's to assume things until someone post "please show me where...". Then after making the wrong assumption, refer to #1 and #2 again.
11) He post links to back up his arguments, but doesn't actually read past the title or 1st paragraph because said link prove he is wrong still. Then refer back to #2 again and #1
Im sure there is more, but this is just what comes off the top of my head right now. So I chose not to reply. Others do, but that's their choice. Only reason why I haven't blocked him is because me and others get a laugh at his expense when ever he post something. And these are hardcore DNC friends who also are laughing. It's like talking to an anti gunner who wants to ban "assault rifles". They are proven their logic based on feelings is wrong, and no amount of evidence you provide will change that feeling.
To us, that's a list of problems he needs to work on.
For a troll, that's his resume! :wacko:
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 14, 2021, 12:12:17 PM
To us, that's a list of problems he needs to work on.
For a troll, that's his resume! :wacko:
And by his comeback from his time gone, he hasn't.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on October 14, 2021, 12:16:16 PM
And by his comeback from his time gone, he hasn't.
So, let's not allow him to make this thread about him again.
Moving on .....
:stopjack:
Post by: aletheuo137 on October 15, 2021, 09:39:32 AM
https://bongino.com/cnn-attempts-damage-control-after-being-humiliated-by-joe-rogan/
CNN attempted damage control after numerous clips of Joe Rogan humiliating his recent podcast guest, chief CNN medical correspondent Sanjay Gupta, went viral on social media.
During one exchange where Joe Rogan blasted CNN for lying about his use of ivermectin, Gupta had no choice but to agree that the network misrepresented him.
However someone at CNN apparently decided that could not stand, and when Gupta appeared on Don Lemon’s show last night Lemon doubled down on the network’s sensationalized reporting while Gupta nodded in agreement.
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Post by: aletheuo137 on October 15, 2021, 12:06:33 PM
https://youtube.com/shorts/nFqhPX78K20?feature=share
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Post by: eyeeatingfish on October 15, 2021, 10:45:58 PM
Just keep trying to shut down my opinion. You don’t want to discuss this, you just want to try and belittle my opinion. Way to go trying to open people’s minds and have a real discussion. Put downs again are not a good way to attempt a discussion. I did not do that to you. Why would you do that to me? Don’t answer that. I already know.
Your tactics are cancel culture BS. Go find someone else to try and use your tactics on. Lying about wanting real discussion and then trying to use cancel culture tactics to try and shut me up is not being intellectually honest. Just stop.
I didn't try to shut down your opinion, I just disagreed with you. I am perfectly happy to discuss it and support my stance but your reply was basically an insult to my intelligence by saying that the point escapes me. If you don't want a sarcastic response then don't go accusing me not being able to understand something just because I disagree with your conclusion.
You are not getting cancelled because I said your statement was a hyperbole. I didn't report you to the moderators or anything, how am I trying to cancel you?
You want to discuss this then lets discuss this. How is an "i'm vaccinated" sticker similar to star of david patches that jews had to wear during WW2? beyond them being signs that people wear? Are vaccination stickers a way to identify a group of people so they can be identified so they can be segregated just for who they are and ultimately murdered? Not at all. Germans were trying to get rid of Jews, the government now isn't trying to kill the vaccine hesitant, they are trying to keep them safe. If they wanted to kill the vaccine hesitant then they would deny us vaccines not try to get us to eat them.
Post by: Inspector on October 16, 2021, 02:57:41 AM
I didn't try to shut down your opinion,
That is a lie. Reread your response with all your petty comments and put downs. Continue to reread it. And if you still can’t see it then, SWOOOOOOOSH!!!!
I just disagreed with you.
That is also a lie. See my comments above.
I am perfectly happy to discuss it and support my stance but your reply was basically an insult to my intelligence by saying that the point escapes me.
I am sorry if I hurt your feelings. But you shouldn’t belittle someone and insult someone just because you still don’t get what I said. It is because of this sort of discussion in the past that I decided not to try and explain it to you. Your past actions proceed you.
If you don't want a sarcastic response then don't go accusing me not being able to understand something just because I disagree with your conclusion.
Wait, so now you are admitting you insulted and belittled me? Right after you said you didn’t? Which is it? Either you did it or you didn’t. Caught you in another lie.
You are not getting cancelled because I said your statement was a hyperbole. I didn't report you to the moderators or anything, how am I trying to cancel you?
You want to discuss this then lets discuss this. How is an "i'm vaccinated" sticker similar to star of david patches that jews had to wear during WW2? beyond them being signs that people wear? Are vaccination stickers a way to identify a group of people so they can be identified so they can be segregated just for who they are and ultimately murdered? Not at all. Germans were trying to get rid of Jews, the government now isn't trying to kill the vaccine hesitant, they are trying to keep them safe. If they wanted to kill the vaccine hesitant then they would deny us vaccines not try to get us to eat them.
It’s too late. I won’t discuss anything with you any more. EVER. Let’s be frank here. You started this. You engaged me with comments that showed you didn’t understand what I said. I responded by stating you didn’t understand it. You incorrectly assumed that I was doing this because you have a different opinion. I did it because you don’t get it. Then you post a response that is “Sarcastic” and belittles and puts down my opinion. Then in this response you plainly stated you didn’t do any of that and then came back and admitted your response was “Sarcastic” all in the same post. If that isn’t a typical definition of not telling the truth, I don’t know what is. I was going to ignore you originally. But I told you it went over your head for a reason. That reason was either so you could ask what it is that you didn’t get, or so you could have time to figure it out. Why? I did it as a courtesy so we might have a discussion. But after what you did, I see you have not changed after I was away for 6+ months. I guess I thought wrong.
I am not sure why you don’t believe what I say here. But realize this. I WILL NOT HAVE A DISCUSSION WITH YOU EVER AGAIN. By trying to engage with me again, I will know that you still don’t listen to nor believe things that I post. You have not changed. It’s a shame because you are a smart person. This is my last post to you.
Post by: hvybarrels on October 16, 2021, 09:35:47 AM
When are we going to admit the colossal stupidity of mass vaccinations with untested drugs and hold the liars accountable?
https://youtu.be/TSZMtSPX3iE
Post by: eyeeatingfish on October 16, 2021, 10:50:07 AM
That is a lie. Reread your response with all your petty comments and put downs. Continue to reread it. And if you still can’t see it then, SWOOOOOOOSH!!!! That is also a lie. See my comments above.
I don't lie. How would I even shut you down? I am not a moderator, I have no ability to edit or delete anything you say. Thats just a spurious claim.
Quote
I am sorry if I hurt your feelings. But you shouldn’t belittle someone and insult someone just because you still don’t get what I said. It is because of this sort of discussion in the past that I decided not to try and explain it to you. Your past actions proceed you.
How did I belittle you? Edit: I see that you are not going to reply so I will not expect an answer.
Quote
Wait, so now you are admitting you insulted and belittled me? Right after you said you didn’t? Which is it? Either you did it or you didn’t. Caught you in another lie.
Tit for tat. I fight clean until the point the other side starts fighting dirty.
Quote
It’s too late. I won’t discuss anything with you any more. EVER. Let’s be frank here. You started this. You engaged me with comments that showed you didn’t understand what I said. I responded by stating you didn’t understand it. You incorrectly assumed that I was doing this because you have a different opinion. I did it because you don’t get it. Then you post a response that is “Sarcastic” and belittles and puts down my opinion. Then in this response you plainly stated you didn’t do any of that and then came back and admitted your response was “Sarcastic” all in the same post. If that isn’t a typical definition of not telling the truth, I don’t know what is. I was going to ignore you originally. But I told you it went over your head for a reason. That reason was either so you could ask what it is that you didn’t get, or so you could have time to figure it out. Why? I did it as a courtesy so we might have a discussion. But after what you did, I see you have not changed after I was away for 6+ months. I guess I thought wrong.
I understood your point, I just disagreed with it.
Quote
I am not sure why you don’t believe what I say here. But realize this. I WILL NOT HAVE A DISCUSSION WITH YOU EVER AGAIN. By trying to engage with me again, I will know that you still don’t listen to nor believe things that I post. You have not changed. It’s a shame because you are a smart person. This is my last post to you.
Fine by me, I cannot and do not force anyone to discuss something.
Post by: aieahound on October 18, 2021, 06:41:20 PM
If someone offered you 9 million dollars to get the vaccine, would you do it ?
Not hypothetical. Nick Rolovich said no.
Edit:
He wouldn’t get the jab for 9 million buckas and probably a lot more and a prominent, was planned to be long term according to the school, coaching gig.
Plus gave up his company car and country club membership….
Moved from another thread as probably more appropriate here.
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 18, 2021, 07:25:43 PM
Moved from another thread as probably more appropriate here.Im sure a better school with higher pay will pick him up. Head coaches shuffle a lot.
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Post by: aieahound on October 18, 2021, 07:32:58 PM
Reportedly only major college coach to not get the jab and defy the mandates.
Gave up over 9 million plus perks guaranteed to roll the dice.
Not guaranteed. They had a 3.6 million dollar buyout if he sucked on the field, but they fired with cause.
No buyout. Lawsuit ?
They basically said no choice. He can’t work here anymore due to mandate. Meaning they have no choice.
Curious. Who here got the jab to keep their job ? (That doesn’t pay 3 million a year?)
Edit: tip my cap to Rolo. Stand up guy. May have ruined his ideal career, or at least put it on hold for a while, and gave up a shit ton of money to stand up for his beliefs.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on October 18, 2021, 07:44:29 PM
... Head coaches shuffle a lot.
https://youtu.be/QXW1u_1ksJA
Post by: aieahound on October 18, 2021, 07:51:58 PM
Guess you felt you needed to share that with us.
Post by: hvybarrels on October 18, 2021, 07:57:29 PM
How much are good health and extra years worth?
The transhumanist billionaires are certainly spending considerable sums on their eternal life projects
It will be ironic if the jab itself or the resulting angry mobs end up taking a lot of them out
Hopefully their workers got paid up front
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 18, 2021, 08:11:07 PM
Not every thought needs to become a post.Its funny.
Guess you felt you needed to share that with us.
Rolo is also a 2a guy.
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Post by: omnigun on October 18, 2021, 08:24:46 PM
I gave up my job, wasn’t 9 million but still miss it.
How much are good health and extra years worth?
The transhumanist billionaires are certainly spending considerable sums on their eternal life projects
It will be ironic if the jab itself or the resulting angry mobs end up taking a lot of them out
Hopefully their workers got paid up front
Wonder what you will feel like in a few years when the vaxxed are alive and well. And you don't have that job....
Post by: omnigun on October 18, 2021, 08:30:20 PM
He’s hoping.
Reportedly only major college coach to not get the jab and defy the mandates.
Gave up over 9 million plus perks guaranteed to roll the dice.
Not guaranteed. They had a 3.6 million dollar buyout if he sucked on the field, but they fired with cause.
No buyout. Lawsuit ?
They basically said no choice. He can’t work here anymore due to mandate. Meaning they have no choice.
Curious. Who here got the jab to keep their job ? (That doesn’t pay 3 million a year?)
Edit: tip my cap to Rolo. Stand up guy. May have ruined his ideal career, or at least put it on hold for a while, and gave up a shit ton of money to stand up for his beliefs.
He's a giant dummy. Laughably so. This guy threw away a great job for "nothing". Lul. He will regret it, for now I laugh. Not allowed to laugh at the other topic about covid so this was a good alternative. Im astonished at the actions of some humans.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on October 18, 2021, 08:31:19 PM
He's a giant dummy. Laughably so. This guy threw away a great job for "nothing". Lul. He will regret it, for now I laugh. Not allowed to laugh at the other topic about covid so this was a good alternative. Im astonished at the actions of some humans.
To some people principles are worth more than money. Though it is also easier for a rich person to do this.
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 18, 2021, 09:26:11 PM
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Post by: aieahound on October 18, 2021, 09:32:19 PM
Post by: hvybarrels on October 18, 2021, 09:56:59 PM
To some people principles are worth more than money. Though it is also easier for a rich person to do this.
Principles? This is about nasty blood clots and not having to shelter in place every time flu season comes around.
Waaaaaaay back in September 2020:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41564-020-00789-5
There will be plenty of work in a few months. Just have to hold out until people figure out what was done to them.
Post by: Inspector on October 19, 2021, 04:59:41 AM
https://www.foxnews.com/us/chicago-vaccine-mandate-police-superintendent-retirement-benefits
Post by: Inspector on October 19, 2021, 05:01:55 AM
I gave up my job, wasn’t 9 million but still miss it.I’m sorry you no longer have a job. However, I applaud you for standing up for your beliefs and principles! 👏 👏 👏
How much are good health and extra years worth?
The transhumanist billionaires are certainly spending considerable sums on their eternal life projects
It will be ironic if the jab itself or the resulting angry mobs end up taking a lot of them out
Hopefully their workers got paid up front
Post by: drck1000 on October 19, 2021, 07:05:13 AM
Its funny.Rolo always struck me as a bit of a cowboy. I recall one game (maybe more than one) where he has a fixed blade knife on his belt.
Rolo is also a 2a guy.
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Post by: changemyoil66 on October 19, 2021, 07:48:06 AM
I’m sorry you no longer have a job. However, I applaud you for standing up for your beliefs and principles!Ditto.
I caved/coerced for my job. Although they only ask and not prove one is vaxxed.
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Post by: Flapp_Jackson on October 19, 2021, 01:36:25 PM
Current studies indicate the antibodies created by the virus are at least as effective, if not more so, as those created by the vaccines alone.
Saying that the vaccine makes natural immunity even stronger is not a valid argument, since we aren't giving higher doses or additional boosters to increase immunity in people who have no natural immunity.
https://youtu.be/XZ1FyK6CQ9w
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 19, 2021, 01:51:34 PM
Following the science, a PA Hospital gives anyone who's tested positive for COVID in the past a one-year deferral on any vaccine mandates.
Current studies indicate the antibodies created by the virus are at least as effective, if not more so, as those created by the vaccines alone.
Saying that the vaccine makes natural immunity even stronger is not a valid argument, since we aren't giving higher doses or additional boosters to increase immunity in people who have no natural immunity.
This is good to hear. I would say that I hope that this catches on, but that means those who didn't have covid would be forced to vaxx. So sounds good until you really think about it.
Firefighters who refuse the jab lined up their boots at city hall after being fired.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on October 19, 2021, 03:00:45 PM
This is good to hear. I would say that I hope that this catches on, but that means those who didn't have covid would be forced to vaxx. So sounds good until you really think about it.
Firefighters who refuse the jab lined up their boots at city hall after being fired.
If the firefighters and their supporters really want to protest, they'd get all the
government employee unions together and give the politicians in office "the boot!"
:geekdanc: :thumbsup:
Post by: MassConfusion on October 19, 2021, 05:37:15 PM
Real lives affected, with "Not so rare" consequences!
Where there is risk, there should be choice!
Nov 02, 2:30 PM EDT
Washington DC Supreme Court Steps, 1 First St NE, Washington, DC 20543, USA
https://www.realnotrare.com/
We are your moms, dads, brothers, and sisters, spouses and friends. We are suffering, often silently, with confusing, troubling symptoms that the current medical system hasn't addressed. It might look like we're okay, but we are not.
A certain percentage of people – in the thousands – who had the covid vaccine are suffering with debilitating symptoms. Our lives, in many cases, have been ruined with terrifying symptoms, leaving many of us with the inability to work. The widespread general denial – even bullying – of those facing symptoms is making matters worse.
We continuously find doctors who do not know how to help, as this is not yet a recognized issue by the CDC and FDA. Many doctors even refuse to see us, if the vaccine is mentioned as a possible cause.
We each believed the science, and did our social duty to help stop the pandemic. In return, we ask that you acknowledge these adverse reactions, help us press for desperately needed medical research and attention.
We firmly refuse to be dragged into the political debates surrounding the pandemic, yet many of us are afraid to speak out due to intense social pressures and denials. Thousands of us have gathered online to try and help each other. Our websites and groups have been deleted and the sufferers have been told that no such reactions to the vaccines exist. Some of us have been fired from our jobs for just sharing our experience. Some of us have been fired from our doctors for just mentioning the vaccine.
Even though we've been called names and bullied, and we're scared to tell our stories – we must. So many are continuing to struggle physically, and we can't do this alone.
We need your help. Our aim:
Raise awareness so the medical community will work to bring resources and solutions for a cure,
Help others like us who are suffering from many months of symptoms, and
Break through the silence and censorship that is labeling our real life experiences as misinformation.
Please, recognize our pain. Please share our stories! Please help bring pressure for this issue to be heard, and to be solved. Please don't treat us like outcasts, but like someone suffering the medical effects of this terrible pandemic.
We thank you! We appreciate you! And we look forward to rejoining you when we are healthy again.
https://www.wewanttobeheard.com/
Post by: eyeeatingfish on October 19, 2021, 08:10:46 PM
Principles? This is about nasty blood clots and not having to shelter in place every time flu season comes around.
Waaaaaaay back in September 2020:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41564-020-00789-5
There will be plenty of work in a few months. Just have to hold out until people figure out what was done to them.
Yes principles, for me at least. The risk of blood clots are quite low so I don't worry too much about that.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on October 19, 2021, 08:12:58 PM
Following the science, a PA Hospital gives anyone who's tested positive for COVID in the past a one-year deferral on any vaccine mandates.
Current studies indicate the antibodies created by the virus are at least as effective, if not more so, as those created by the vaccines alone.
Saying that the vaccine makes natural immunity even stronger is not a valid argument, since we aren't giving higher doses or additional boosters to increase immunity in people who have no natural immunity.
Israel already recognized this a while ago and their vaccine passport includes someone who caught covid and got over it. I don't know why our government leaders are so behind and refuse to consider this option.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on October 19, 2021, 08:15:25 PM
Israel already recognized this a while ago and their vaccine passport includes someone who caught covid and got over it. I don't know why our government leaders are so behind and refuse to consider this option.
Because there's no money for anyone if there's no vaccine injected.
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 19, 2021, 09:10:42 PM
Israel already recognized this a while ago and their vaccine passport includes someone who caught covid and got over it. I don't know why our government leaders are so behind and refuse to consider this option.Is this rhetorical?
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Post by: eyeeatingfish on October 19, 2021, 09:21:05 PM
Is this rhetorical?
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It's me venting.
We didn't know this about natural immunity in the beginning but we know about it now so we have no excuses for it now.
Post by: macsak on October 19, 2021, 09:50:26 PM
It's me venting.
We didn't know this about natural immunity in the beginning but we know about it now so we have no excuses for it now.
we did know this beforehand
natural immunity is for the WHOLE virus
the vaccines used in the West code only for a portion of the spike protein...
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 19, 2021, 09:51:36 PM
It's me venting.Got it. See flaps answer.
We didn't know this about natural immunity in the beginning but we know about it now so we have no excuses for it now.
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Post by: hvybarrels on October 19, 2021, 11:52:35 PM
I’m sorry you no longer have a job. However, I applaud you for standing up for your beliefs and principles! 👏 👏 👏
Thanks. I’m in a better position than most to make a lateral move and was already seriously considering to limit my exposure to big corporations for a while now.
Going back to Indy life means I can set my own rates, which is much easier than renegotiating a salary during a hyperinflation event.
Kissing the benefits goodbye sucks, but it beats dying in the Stage III trials of an uncompensated medical experiment.
Post by: omnigun on October 20, 2021, 06:38:12 AM
Thanks. I’m in a better position than most to make a lateral move and was already seriously considering to limit my exposure to big corporations for a while now.
Going back to Indy life means I can set my own rates, which is much easier than renegotiating a salary during a hyperinflation event.
Kissing the benefits goodbye sucks, but it beats dying in the Stage III trials of an uncompensated medical experiment.
Lol so when stage 4 comes along and we are all alive will you regret?
Post by: aletheuo137 on October 20, 2021, 07:24:46 AM
https://conservativebrief.com/court-appeal-53031/?utm_source=CB&utm_medium=922
The U.S. Supreme Court has declined to block a vaccine requirement imposed on Maine health care workers.
Justice Stephen Breyer rejected the emergency appeal but left the door open to try again as Maine’s mandate will begin on Oct. 29.
ABC News reported:
The Maine vaccine requirement that was put in place by Democratic Gov. Janet Mills requires hospital and nursing home workers to get vaccinated or risk losing their jobs.
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Post by: omnigun on October 20, 2021, 07:34:46 AM
Supreme Court Declines Emergency Appeal Of Vaccine Requirement On Maine Healthcare Workers
https://conservativebrief.com/court-appeal-53031/?utm_source=CB&utm_medium=922
The U.S. Supreme Court has declined to block a vaccine requirement imposed on Maine health care workers.
Justice Stephen Breyer rejected the emergency appeal but left the door open to try again as Maine’s mandate will begin on Oct. 29.
ABC News reported:
The Maine vaccine requirement that was put in place by Democratic Gov. Janet Mills requires hospital and nursing home workers to get vaccinated or risk losing their jobs.
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Nice. :shaka:
Post by: hvybarrels on October 20, 2021, 07:42:43 AM
Supreme Court Declines Emergency Appeal Of Vaccine Requirement On Maine Healthcare Workers
https://conservativebrief.com/court-appeal-53031/?utm_source=CB&utm_medium=922
The U.S. Supreme Court has declined to block a vaccine requirement imposed on Maine health care workers.
Justice Stephen Breyer rejected the emergency appeal but left the door open to try again as Maine’s mandate will begin on Oct. 29.
ABC News reported:
The Maine vaccine requirement that was put in place by Democratic Gov. Janet Mills requires hospital and nursing home workers to get vaccinated or risk losing their jobs.
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Meanwhile healthcare shortages everywhere.
Quit your job. Crash he system. It’s he only way they will learn that they can’t push us around.
Post by: omnigun on October 20, 2021, 08:47:41 AM
Meanwhile healthcare shortages everywhere.
Quit your job. Crash he system. It’s he only way they will learn that they can’t push us around.
For every (censored word) that quits another will fill their place. The magic of capitalism.
Post by: hvybarrels on October 20, 2021, 09:06:14 AM
Poison your kids for Joe!
https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/white-house-details-plan-quickly-vaccinate-28m-children-age-5-11
(https://investorshub.advfn.com/uimage/uploads/2020/9/30/qybtfCreepy_Joe_Biden_Licking_His_Lips_Over_George_Floyd_Race_Riots-300x258.gif)
Post by: drck1000 on October 20, 2021, 09:12:39 AM
Joe loves kids. You love Joe.now that is creepy Joe. . .
Poison your kids for Joe!
SNIP
Post by: aletheuo137 on October 20, 2021, 09:38:42 AM
now that is creepy Joe. . .Sick, just plain old sick!
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Post by: hvybarrels on October 20, 2021, 08:38:03 PM
Not super surprised
https://rumble.com/vnyyz8-dr.-ryan-cole-speaks-out-numbers-of-cancers-caused-by-covid-shots-.html?mref=6zof&mc=dgip3&utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=SayuriVR&ep=2
Post by: ren on October 20, 2021, 08:59:17 PM
Post by: eyeeatingfish on October 20, 2021, 09:17:40 PM
we did know this beforehand
natural immunity is for the WHOLE virus
the vaccines used in the West code only for a portion of the spike protein...
In the beginning I think we didn't know how long natural immunity would last though
Post by: eyeeatingfish on October 20, 2021, 09:19:49 PM
Because there's no money for anyone if there's no vaccine injected.
Call me optimistic but I don't think that is the reason.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on October 20, 2021, 09:22:26 PM
Meanwhile healthcare shortages everywhere.
Quit your job. Crash he system. It’s he only way they will learn that they can’t push us around.
I wonder what the repercussions will be though. Health care workers usually get lots of support but if their leaving the job in droves starts causing serious health care problems a lot of people are going to be upset I think.
Its like when a worker strike happens everyone wants to support them but if it turns out that strike means no more toilet paper on the shelves support seems to dry up and people get angry.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on October 20, 2021, 09:35:05 PM
Call me optimistic but I don't think that is the reason.
Call me unconvinced, because you didn't state a reason of your own.
Post by: macsak on October 20, 2021, 10:38:53 PM
In the beginning I think we didn't know how long natural immunity would last though
yes, we had an idea
SARS-CoV 1 natural immunity lasts at least 17 years...
Post by: hvybarrels on October 20, 2021, 10:43:50 PM
I wonder what the repercussions will be though. Health care workers usually get lots of support but if their leaving the job in droves starts causing serious health care problems a lot of people are going to be upset I think.
Its like when a worker strike happens everyone wants to support them but if it turns out that strike means no more toilet paper on the shelves support seems to dry up and people get angry.
Hell yeah there will be repercussions. The commies who forced us to put poison in our bodies or lose our jobs are already in big trouble in case you haven't noticed.
And once everyone realizes the clot shots are actually slow-release lethal injections anyone who supported these psychopaths is going to have a real bad day.
https://youtu.be/hi4nMsOKUbM
Post by: omnigun on October 21, 2021, 07:03:29 AM
Hell yeah there will be repercussions. The commies who forced us to put poison in our bodies or lose our jobs are already in big trouble in case you haven't noticed.
And once everyone realizes the clot shots are actually slow-release lethal injections anyone who supported these psychopaths is going to have a real bad day.
https://youtu.be/hi4nMsOKUbM
Fake news. Vaxx is safe.
Post by: omnigun on October 21, 2021, 07:04:19 AM
yes, we had an idea
SARS-CoV 1 natural immunity lasts at least 17 years...
So your bright solution is to get everyone infected. Let a bunch of people die so less people die after that?
Natural Immunity only works via infection. The very thing we are trying to prevent. Cause infection means a chance a death via covid.
Post by: hvybarrels on October 21, 2021, 07:39:56 AM
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 21, 2021, 08:55:58 AM
Post by: oldfart on October 21, 2021, 09:19:09 AM
Creepy Joe wants all the kids to get the shot.
They making a reduced load with smaller needles just for kiddies. :D
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 21, 2021, 09:52:57 AM
my boss is offering a booster shot already :rofl:
Creepy Joe wants all the kids to get the shot.
They making a reduced load with smaller needles just for kiddies. :D
I spoke to a old coworker yesterday. She's super DNC and has TDS. But she refused to let her daughter get the jab. So she was forced to pull her from sports. She's treating it like a tattoo, once her daughter is 18, she can choose to get jabbed or not. The mother is jabbed. Her daughter does not want to get jabbed with this vaxx. She has all the other ones required for school and has no issue with them at all.
Post by: omnigun on October 21, 2021, 10:01:33 AM
I spoke to a old coworker yesterday. She's super DNC and has TDS. But she refused to let her daughter get the jab. So she was forced to pull her from sports. She's treating it like a tattoo, once her daughter is 18, she can choose to get jabbed or not. The mother is jabbed. Her daughter does not want to get jabbed with this vaxx. She has all the other ones required for school and has no issue with them at all.
lol more proof that political parties don't matter for intelligence.
Post by: ren on October 21, 2021, 11:10:14 AM
(https://vaersanalysis.info/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/image13-1.png)
from the CDC :thumbsup:
Post by: QUIETShooter on October 21, 2021, 11:12:46 AM
I spoke to a old coworker yesterday. She's super DNC and has TDS. But she refused to let her daughter get the jab. So she was forced to pull her from sports. She's treating it like a tattoo, once her daughter is 18, she can choose to get jabbed or not. The mother is jabbed. Her daughter does not want to get jabbed with this vaxx. She has all the other ones required for school and has no issue with them at all.
Mother and daughter are very smart. Health decisions are an individual choice. There are more educated people in this nation than these vaxxers make it out to be. :thumbsup:
Post by: drck1000 on October 21, 2021, 11:17:36 AM
Mother and daughter are very smart. Health decisions are an individual choice. There are more educated people in this nation than these vaxxers make it out to be. :thumbsup:didya mean intelligent?
I think we've proven that education from reputable institutions =/= intelligence. . .
Post by: oldfart on October 21, 2021, 11:40:53 AM
didya mean intelligent?==========
I think we've proven that education from reputable institutions =/= intelligence. . .
One of my favorite quips when I make a mistake is, "eh sorry eh? I wen' go public school cuz"
Post by: aieahound on October 21, 2021, 11:41:32 AM
Creepy Joe wants all the kids to get the shot.
They making a reduced load with smaller needles just for kiddies. :D
Pretty soon it will be available to kids in a nasal spray. (Pure speculation)
That’s an option for the flu shot for elementary school kids. (Or it was a few years ago.)
The new norm.
Edit:
Go Right ! No ! Not public school right !
(When you tell ‘em turn right and they start left. )
Surfriders Baby !
Post by: aletheuo137 on October 21, 2021, 12:07:18 PM
didya mean intelligent?Akamai!
I think we've proven that education from reputable institutions =/= intelligence. . .
Harry Belafonte - Man Smart Woman Smarter
https://youtu.be/9JPKZefbYG4
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Post by: QUIETShooter on October 21, 2021, 12:11:08 PM
didya mean intelligent?
I think we've proven that education from reputable institutions =/= intelligence. . .
Yah, dat one..... ;D :shaka:
Post by: MassConfusion on October 21, 2021, 03:12:13 PM
Johns Hopkins University institutes mandatory flu shot policy
Kristi King | kking@wtop.com
October 21, 2021, 4:30 PM
Listen now to WTOP News WTOP.com | Alexa | Google Home | WTOP App | 103.5 FM
Proof of vaccination against seasonal influenza will be required to work or attend classes at Johns Hopkins University on any of its Baltimore or D.C. area campuses.
The institution’s website states the policy was created in response to the COVID-19 pandemic in the interest of ensuring the safety of the school community and surrounding communities.
“Having as many students, faculty, and staff as possible vaccinated for both COVID-19 and the flu, in conjunction with other health and hygiene policies, is vital to the safety of our community,” the university website states.
...
https://wtop.com/education/2021/10/johns-hopkins-university-institutes-a-mandatory-flu-shot-policy/
Post by: Inspector on October 21, 2021, 04:04:33 PM
Seriously, how far are they going to take this?
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 21, 2021, 04:54:33 PM
Of course. We knew it wouldn’t end with just the COVID vaccine. Now it’s the flu vaccine being required. What’s next? Being forced to wear condoms? :rofl: Pin our vaccine records to our shirts? How about our medical records pinned to our shirts? That way those of us with diabetes won’t be allowed to be served dessert.The manager at 808 gunclub had his vaxx card pinned to his shirt.
Seriously, how far are they going to take this?
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Post by: Inspector on October 21, 2021, 05:03:25 PM
The manager at 808 gunclub had his vaxx card pinned to his shirt.Why am I not surprised? There is a pneumonia vaccine and a shingles vaccine. So I can’t go play bingo if I don’t have all my vaccines? If I don’t have COVID, Flu and pneumonia I can’t go into a bar? If I don’t have my shingles vaccine I can’t go get a happy ending at the club? Or go into a hot tub?
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They told us it would end at the COVID jab. Then they added another COVID jab. Now they add the flu jab. A booster jab every 6-9 months. Shingles jab.. Seriously, where is this going to end?
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on October 21, 2021, 05:17:06 PM
Why am I not surprised? There is a pneumonia vaccine and a shingles vaccine. So I can’t go play bingo if I don’t have all my vaccines? If I don’t have COVID, Flu and pneumonia I can’t go into a bar? If I don’t have my shingles vaccine I can’t go get a happy ending at the club? Or go into a hot tub?
They told us it would end at the COVID jab. Then they added another COVID jab. Now they add the flu jab. A booster jab every 6-9 months. Shingles jab.. Seriously, where is this going to end?
Who ever said it needs to end?
(https://i.imgur.com/VeYvoPW.jpg)
Post by: MassConfusion on October 21, 2021, 05:42:42 PM
(https://www.designyourway.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/e9fb6372a8a04d04a900883c09f.jpg)
Post by: hvybarrels on October 21, 2021, 06:39:44 PM
Of course. We knew it wouldn’t end with just the COVID vaccine. Now it’s the flu vaccine being required. What’s next? Being forced to wear condoms? :rofl: Pin our vaccine records to our shirts? How about our medical records pinned to our shirts? That way those of us with diabetes won’t be allowed to be served dessert.
Seriously, how far are they going to take this?
Mandatory gender reassignment surgery in order to achieve corporate equity goals.
The upside to cutting off your junk to keep your job is that nobody is allowed to criticize you for anything ever again.
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/rachel-levine-sworn-nations-first-142930174.html
(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/7MVUKRy6Aog3A9oznoltgg--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjt3PTk2MDtoPTY0MDtjZj13ZWJw/https://s.yimg.com/uu/api/res/1.2/KLuNXe1bMHVO2rjFBouIuQ--~B/aD00MjA7dz02MzA7YXBwaWQ9eXRhY2h5b24-/https://media.zenfs.com/en/the_huffington_post_584/f3201886bdbbfecd115ba839d795040f)
Post by: eyeeatingfish on October 21, 2021, 08:36:18 PM
Call me unconvinced, because you didn't state a reason of your own.
Maybe they believed lives would be saved, crazy concept I know.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on October 21, 2021, 08:40:07 PM
Hell yeah there will be repercussions. The commies who forced us to put poison in our bodies or lose our jobs are already in big trouble in case you haven't noticed.
And once everyone realizes the clot shots are actually slow-release lethal injections anyone who supported these psychopaths is going to have a real bad day.
https://youtu.be/hi4nMsOKUbM
Really, thats your working theory? They are trying to just wipe out the entire population?
Post by: eyeeatingfish on October 21, 2021, 08:43:40 PM
(https://vaersanalysis.info/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/image13-1.png)
A number of things to consider about the Vaers reports
#1 Very few people even knew about this reporting system until covid came alone. This likely accounts for a large disparity compared to other vaccines.
#2 Anyone can report it, doctors, regular people, crazy people, etc.
#3 It doesn't establish whether the vaccine had and relation to the reported death. For example a man gets the vaccine and dies of a heart attack two days later. Was it the vaccine or was he going to have a heart attack in 2 days anyway. A certain amount of people are going to die every month or year anyway,
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 21, 2021, 08:48:01 PM
A number of things to consider about the Vaers reportsIts against federal law to lie to vaers.
#1 Very few people even knew about this reporting system until covid came alone. This likely accounts for a large disparity compared to other vaccines.
#2 Anyone can report it, doctors, regular people, crazy people, etc.
#3 It doesn't establish whether the vaccine had and relation to the reported death. For example a man gets the vaccine and dies of a heart attack two days later. Was it the vaccine or was he going to have a heart attack in 2 days anyway. A certain amount of people are going to die every month or year anyway,
When will a vaxx be released for vaers?
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Post by: eyeeatingfish on October 21, 2021, 08:48:40 PM
Of course. We knew it wouldn’t end with just the COVID vaccine. Now it’s the flu vaccine being required. What’s next? Being forced to wear condoms? :rofl: Pin our vaccine records to our shirts? How about our medical records pinned to our shirts? That way those of us with diabetes won’t be allowed to be served dessert.
Seriously, how far are they going to take this?
In all fairness there are already a number of other vaccines that are required for children to attend school.
I remember I had to take a TB test for at least two of the jobs I worked as well.
So this isn't exactly new territory. But if one is going to fight against mandatory flu and covid vaccines shouldn't all mandatory vaccines be eliminated? This really never became that much of an issue until covid.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on October 21, 2021, 08:49:27 PM
Its against federal law to lie to vaers.
When will a vaxx be released for vaers?
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Good thing no one ever does anything illegal on the internet!
A vaccine for Vaers?
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 21, 2021, 08:56:13 PM
In all fairness there are already a number of other vaccines that are required for children to attend school.Do US citizens have to prove vaxx to travel to HI? Never. So this is new.
I remember I had to take a TB test for at least two of the jobs I worked as well.
So this isn't exactly new territory. But if one is going to fight against mandatory flu and covid vaccines shouldn't all mandatory vaccines be eliminated? This really never became that much of an issue until covid.
Did US citizens ever have to mandatory quarantine when not sick when traveling to HI?
Were businesses ever forced to close?
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Post by: changemyoil66 on October 21, 2021, 08:57:06 PM
Good thing no one ever does anything illegal on the internet!Yeah, someone here thought vaers was a disease and refused to admit his mistake a few months ago.
A vaccine for Vaers?
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Post by: eyeeatingfish on October 21, 2021, 08:59:52 PM
Yeah, someone here thought vaers was a disease and refused to admit his mistake a few months ago.
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Oh gotcha haha. I guess I missed that one
Post by: eyeeatingfish on October 21, 2021, 09:02:07 PM
Do US citizens have to prove vaxx to travel to HI? Never. So this is new.
Did US citizens ever have to mandatory quarantine when not sick when traveling to HI?
Were businesses ever forced to close?
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Sorry, my comments were in the context of shots being mandatory to attend schools or obtain/keep jobs. This is already somewhat of a legal precedence on this particular issue.
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 21, 2021, 09:15:40 PM
Sorry, my comments were in the context of shots being mandatory to attend schools or obtain/keep jobs. This is already somewhat of a legal precedence on this particular issue.Got it.
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Post by: Flapp_Jackson on October 21, 2021, 09:18:14 PM
Oh gotcha haha. I guess I missed that one
Might as well offer up a bit of history in the name of fighting misinformation! :rofl:
https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=38772.msg389408#msg389408
That's why I asked him about VAERS. I'll be he has to google what VAERS is.
I know what that is, less people have suffered from that than those from covid. Its all about the statistics.
Post by: aieahound on October 21, 2021, 10:10:29 PM
If you know anyone who got shingles, it sucks.
:stopjack:
Post by: hvybarrels on October 21, 2021, 11:51:32 PM
Anyone over Fifty. Highly recommend the shingles shot.
If you know anyone who got shingles, it sucks.
:stopjack:
I probably had my tetanus shots way too many times because I keep forgetting when i last took it and seem to get sliced up a lot.
Good shots are good.
Jabs are poison
Post by: hvybarrels on October 22, 2021, 12:16:28 AM
A number of things to consider about the Vaers reports
#1 Very few people even knew about this reporting system until covid came alone. This likely accounts for a large disparity compared to other vaccines.
#2 Anyone can report it, doctors, regular people, crazy people, etc.
#3 It doesn't establish whether the vaccine had and relation to the reported death. For example a man gets the vaccine and dies of a heart attack two days later. Was it the vaccine or was he going to have a heart attack in 2 days anyway. A certain amount of people are going to die every month or year anyway,
1.VAERS actually manipulated the numbers so it would not look as bad. A few months ago the number was closer to 50k deaths, which means they could probably be in the hundreds of thousands by now.
2. Reports have been flooding in since the beginning in that the injury and death numbers are actually way worse, and given how doctors are demonize/cancelled/fired for talking about Ivermectin it’s obvious that medical censorship is a huge problem right now. Plenty of medical personnel have spoken out anyway because the are so horrified by what is going on and refuse to be part of it even if it means destroying their careers and reputations.
3. We just found out that Faucci lied to congress about the wuhan lab gain of function and the NIH actually funded the lab that produced Covid-19. Why would anybody trust the word of a known liar? Why should we trust someone who covertly funded illegal experiments fully realizing that they could escape and kill millions of people, and admitted on a recording that ithe worst case scenario would still be “worth it”?
4. The official sources have been literally wrong about every detail of the pandemic since the beginning while pushing a constantly shifting and often self-contradicting narrative, meanwhile conspiracy theorists have had a stunningly accurate track record regularly scooping the mainstream media months in advance.
5. Things are about to get a lot worse. The initial excess deaths were mostly due to blood clots, but we have just entered the “pandemic of the vaccinated” phase as ADE sets in. Add to this the newly discovered cancer risks and whatever else pops up over the next few years that we have no idea about yet because this stuff WAS NEVER TESTED ON HUMANS BEFORE.
Post by: Inspector on October 22, 2021, 02:33:32 AM
Anyone over Fifty. Highly recommend the shingles shot.I got shingles when I was in my early 40’s. It was the most uncomfortable thing that has ever happened to me. Except when I found out I have an allergy to a blood thinning prescription I was given right after my heart attack. That was worse.
If you know anyone who got shingles, it sucks.
:stopjack:
My understanding of getting shingles is that you already have it in your body if you had chicken pox as a child. And your immune system keeps it under control. That is until something comes along and your immune system becomes weak and the virus does its thing. In my case I was going through a very stressful time in my life when it hit me. It is common for severe stress to give shingles a chance to attack your body. I’ll never forget having it, it was that bad.
With that said I have turned down the shingles vaccine numerous times and will not take it.
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 22, 2021, 07:26:13 AM
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Post by: Rocky on October 22, 2021, 07:44:59 AM
Anyone over Fifty. Highly recommend the shingles shot.
If you know anyone who got shingles, it sucks.
:stopjack:
My Mom got shingles BAAAAD.
Almost blinded her.
My sis is pretty much anti-any-drug-vax but when she saw what my mom went thru, she got the Shingles shot.
When I was young I had the pox severely.
I got my shingles shot a month or so before this covid crap.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on October 22, 2021, 08:39:52 PM
1.VAERS actually manipulated the numbers so it would not look as bad. A few months ago the number was closer to 50k deaths, which means they could probably be in the hundreds of thousands by now.
Where is the evidence of this?
Quote
2. Reports have been flooding in since the beginning in that the injury and death numbers are actually way worse, and given how doctors are demonize/cancelled/fired for talking about Ivermectin it’s obvious that medical censorship is a huge problem right now. Plenty of medical personnel have spoken out anyway because the are so horrified by what is going on and refuse to be part of it even if it means destroying their careers and reputations.
If that were true, why are the vast majority of doctors taking the vaccine?
Quote
3. We just found out that Faucci lied to congress about the wuhan lab gain of function and the NIH actually funded the lab that produced Covid-19. Why would anybody trust the word of a known liar? Why should we trust someone who covertly funded illegal experiments fully realizing that they could escape and kill millions of people, and admitted on a recording that ithe worst case scenario would still be “worth it”?
I don't trust Fauci, but I can distrust Fauci and still trust the vaccine is by in large safe and effective.
Quote
4. The official sources have been literally wrong about every detail of the pandemic since the beginning while pushing a constantly shifting and often self-contradicting narrative, meanwhile conspiracy theorists have had a stunningly accurate track record regularly scooping the mainstream media months in advance.
About some details sure, but not all details. Plus you are doing a bit of monday morning quarterbacking here. We can't reasonably expect the doctors and scientists to know everything in the beginning and never make an innacurate prediction especially about an evolving situation. There has been a huge failure in messaging, I will give you that, but I don't think the scientists have utterly failed.
Quote
5. Things are about to get a lot worse. The initial excess deaths were mostly due to blood clots, but we have just entered the “pandemic of the vaccinated” phase as ADE sets in. Add to this the newly discovered cancer risks and whatever else pops up over the next few years that we have no idea about yet because this stuff WAS NEVER TESTED ON HUMANS BEFORE.
Predictions without merit in my opinion but obviously we can't settle this for another year or two.
Post by: Inspector on October 23, 2021, 01:08:06 PM
https://www.yahoo.com/now/biden-says-police-officers-first-021152033.html
Post by: eyeeatingfish on October 23, 2021, 11:06:28 PM
Biden says police officers, first responders should be fired for refusing jab
https://www.yahoo.com/now/biden-says-police-officers-first-021152033.html
Hope his secret service walks out one day.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on October 24, 2021, 12:00:06 AM
Hope his secret service walks out one day.
If they did, Biden wouldn't noticed if nobody told him .....
Post by: hvybarrels on October 24, 2021, 06:56:19 AM
Post by: hvybarrels on October 24, 2021, 07:12:25 AM
Where is the evidence of this?
COULD BE AS MANY AS 150K NOW
https://centipedenation.com/first-column/150k-records-deleted-from-vaers-covid-database/ (https://centipedenation.com/first-column/150k-records-deleted-from-vaers-covid-database/)
If that were true, why are the vast majority of doctors taking the vaccine?
HOW WOULD YOU KNOW THAT? LOTS OF THEM HAVE BEEN THREATENED AND SILENCED
I don't trust Fauci, but I can distrust Fauci and still trust the vaccine is by in large safe and effective.
YOU COULD, BUT THAT WOULD BE IGNORING MASSIVE CORRUPTION AND SCANDAL IN THE MEDICAL/PHARMA INDUSTRY AT THE HIGHEST LEVELS
About some details sure, but not all details. Plus you are doing a bit of monday morning quarterbacking here. We can't reasonably expect the doctors and scientists to know everything in the beginning and never make an innacurate prediction especially about an evolving situation. There has been a huge failure in messaging, I will give you that, but I don't think the scientists have utterly failed.
IS THE WUHAN LAB LEAK A DETAIL? HOW ABOUT ILLEGAL MANDATES, VACCINE DANGERS, OR DECLINING EFFECTIVENESS? ALL THESE WERE CONSPIRACY THEORIES A FEW MONTHS AGO
Predictions without merit in my opinion but obviously we can't settle this for another year or two.
YOU’VE BEEN WRONG FROM THE GET GO BUT THAT’S NEVER STOPPED YOU FROM EXPLAINING EVERYTHING ANYWAY
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 24, 2021, 09:14:30 AM
A secret service sickout might not be too far off in the future. Loyalty is running low now that everyone can see what a disaster this administration isNah, they protect based on the office. Not person whos in the office
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Post by: hvybarrels on October 24, 2021, 02:14:41 PM
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 24, 2021, 03:59:05 PM
https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/covid-vaccination-deaths-cdc/2021/10/23/id/1041709/
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Post by: Flapp_Jackson on October 24, 2021, 04:13:31 PM
When u run out of fake reasons for people to be vaxxed.
https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/covid-vaccination-deaths-cdc/2021/10/23/id/1041709/
What I got from this: There is no evidence that the mortality rate of vaccinated people is any higher than unvaccinated people if you only count non-COVID deaths.
They are trying to conclude that, all things being equal, the risk of dying from causes other than COVID is the same between the two groups. That the vaccine doesn't increase your changes of dying, so it's safe.
My first counter-argument: Who said "death" was the only measure of "safety?"
That only addresses the "won't kill you" factor. What about the "will stop you from dying of COVID" factor? What they glaringly left out was the comparison of vaccinated who died from COVID vs. unvaccinated who died from COVID.
So far, the best the doctors can say is, comorbidity plays a bigger role in the COVID survival rate than the vaccine, and that the vaccine may prevent hospitalization of new cases. They are unable/unwilling to go that next step and conclude that the vaccine will stop you from dying if you get COVID.
Experts were calling breakthrough cases "rare." Now they are calling them "uncommon."
To me, the vaccine's benefits need to outweigh the risks. So far, it's still looking like a coin toss.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on October 24, 2021, 10:01:44 PM
Where is the evidence of this?
COULD BE AS MANY AS 150K NOW
https://centipedenation.com/first-column/150k-records-deleted-from-vaers-covid-database/
Skimmed through the video, I think what he does raises some value questions but consider that there could also be perfectly valid reasons as well. Just off the top of my head I wonder how they control for duplicate reports, so if someone dies maybe the Dr. reports it, the wife reports it, and the son reports it.
Quote
HOW WOULD YOU KNOW THAT? LOTS OF THEM HAVE BEEN THREATENED AND SILENCED
Thats what the numbers are saying. And if people were just silencing the doctors who disagree why not silence the nurses as well? We see doctors vaccinated at very high rates and nurses are significantly lower rates. If someone were silencing people why only silence the doctors? Furthermore what doctors are actually silenced?
Quote
YOU COULD, BUT THAT WOULD BE IGNORING MASSIVE CORRUPTION AND SCANDAL IN THE MEDICAL/PHARMA INDUSTRY AT THE HIGHEST LEVELS
Conflict of interest is an issue but it doesn't indicate corruption is happening. There is always money to be made. Someone making money off Ivermectin, someone making money of homeopathic cures, etc. Not that I trust pharma a whole lot but I think the nature of the pandemic and the vaccine program actually makes them more trustworthy than usual. Not only is there so much more attention on these companies but by having the government promise to pay for doses of the vaccine whether it worked or not they reduced the issue of a company lying about a product for fear of losing their investment cost. But I certainly do understand why people are hesitant to trust these companies. How many billion dollar settlements are in the process over various drugs and products right now!
Quote
IS THE WUHAN LAB LEAK A DETAIL? HOW ABOUT ILLEGAL MANDATES, VACCINE DANGERS, OR DECLINING EFFECTIVENESS? ALL THESE WERE CONSPIRACY THEORIES A FEW MONTHS AGO
1. Wuhan Lab Leak - I'll give you that one
2. Illegal mandates - Somewhat agree, somewhat disagree depending on the specific mandate
3. Vaccine dangers - I don't think they have lied to use about the dangers
4. Declining effectiveness - This was always a possibility and is a fact of biology. I think perhaps messaging was poor here but if the public had some misconception about how vaccines work that doesn't mean the scientists lied. A lot of people seemed to think vaccines prevented you from ever catching a disease but that stems from an ignorant public thinking they know how medicine works, not from the scientists lying to us.
Quote
YOU’VE BEEN WRONG FROM THE GET GO BUT THAT’S NEVER STOPPED YOU FROM EXPLAINING EVERYTHING ANYWAY
Proven wrong about what?
Post by: hvybarrels on October 24, 2021, 10:28:33 PM
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on October 24, 2021, 10:55:28 PM
Did this compulsion to explain away the evil deeds of the worst people in the world start when you were younger, or did it develop over time as you slowly lost you soul?
There's a reason it's called "Devil's Advocate."
Post by: aieahound on October 25, 2021, 10:23:24 AM
“The constant refrain we hear from cops every time they kill an unarmed black person is, ‘They should have complied with commands’, because as long as you comply things will supposedly go well,” Oliver said. “But that only seems to work one way. When officers are asked to follow simple rules or face consequences, a not insignificant amount of them flip their s***.”
Not supporting it, but enjoyed it.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on October 25, 2021, 09:07:39 PM
Did this compulsion to explain away the evil deeds of the worst people in the world start when you were younger, or did it develop over time as you slowly lost you soul?
So now objectivity is explaining away evil deeds of the worst people in the world?
Plus, what is currently being done by who in this pandemic that could be compared to evil deeds of the worst people in the world? Talk about a hyperbole. Can you even look at an opposing argument without trying to demonize you opponent? Lets lower the emotion a little and increase the logical reasoning a little.
Post by: macsak on October 25, 2021, 09:42:09 PM
So now objectivity is explaining away evil deeds of the worst people in the world?
Plus, what is currently being done by who in this pandemic that could be compared to evil deeds of the worst people in the world? Talk about a hyperbole. Can you even look at an opposing argument without trying to demonize you opponent? Lets lower the emotion a little and increase the logical reasoning a little.
says the guy that chalks up anti-vaxx/anti-mask sentiment to groupthink...
Post by: eyeeatingfish on October 25, 2021, 09:53:37 PM
says the guy that chalks up anti-vaxx/anti-mask sentiment to groupthink...
That observation is the direct result of less emotion and more logical reasoning. :thumbsup:
Post by: hvybarrels on October 25, 2021, 10:15:36 PM
So now objectivity is explaining away evil deeds of the worst people in the world?
Plus, what is currently being done by who in this pandemic that could be compared to evil deeds of the worst people in the world? Talk about a hyperbole. Can you even look at an opposing argument without trying to demonize you opponent? Lets lower the emotion a little and increase the logical reasoning a little.
Whatever Mr. Spock
I may be counting my last days with friends and family who could die soon from poisoned useless jabs, and in the meantime I'm sick of this semantic circle jerk where you recycle lies, get caught, and then double back to do it again.
Maybe you can have me red-flagged for being "unreasonable".
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 26, 2021, 01:10:02 PM
The humans are on to the jabs. So now we gotta shift toward animals.
On a side note, when we were in quarantine, all 3 of our cats began sneezing a few days in. They rarely sneeze. And it was like 5 sneezes back to back for a few days. They were never lethargic and their appetite was normal.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on October 26, 2021, 01:24:51 PM
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2021/10/26/11-unvaccinated-african-lions-test-positive-covid-19-denver-zoo/?fbclid=IwAR0GbCDU6F7_rU-RZWbhH55PmA-WkucjF9oKztmatmiW0_I6SAwyGSN7cc0
The humans are on to the jabs. So now we gotta shift toward animals.
On a side note, when we were in quarantine, all 3 of our cats began sneezing a few days in. They rarely sneeze. And it was like 5 sneezes back to back for a few days. They were never lethargic and their appetite was normal.
I think your cats are allergic to you! :rofl:
It took you being home for days to see the symptoms. :geekdanc:
Post by: ren on October 26, 2021, 01:25:25 PM
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2021/10/26/11-unvaccinated-african-lions-test-positive-covid-19-denver-zoo/?fbclid=IwAR0GbCDU6F7_rU-RZWbhH55PmA-WkucjF9oKztmatmiW0_I6SAwyGSN7cc0
The humans are on to the jabs. So now we gotta shift toward animals.
On a side note, when we were in quarantine, all 3 of our cats began sneezing a few days in. They rarely sneeze. And it was like 5 sneezes back to back for a few days. They were never lethargic and their appetite was normal.
can they smell? Cat quarantine
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 26, 2021, 01:43:05 PM
can they smell? Cat quarantine
Generally, if your cat is not eating, peeing outside the litter box, or not their usual personality, then something is wrong. All 3 were just sneezing. Thought it was maybe because we were home 24/7. I'm not going to take my can in to test cause no one comes over anyways.
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 26, 2021, 01:43:40 PM
I think your cats are allergic to you! :rofl:
It took you being home for days to see the symptoms. :geekdanc:
We also interrupt their afternoon nap because we were bored.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on October 26, 2021, 02:52:31 PM
We also interrupt their afternoon nap because we were bored.
Yeah. Only getting 16 hours of sleep during the day probably makes them cranky! :shake:
Post by: eyeeatingfish on October 26, 2021, 09:15:45 PM
Whatever Mr. Spock
I'll take that as a compliment :thumbsup:
Quote
I may be counting my last days with friends and family who could die soon from poisoned useless jabs, and in the meantime I'm sick of this semantic circle jerk where you recycle lies, get caught, and then double back to do it again.
Maybe you can have me red-flagged for being "unreasonable".
You've never shown a single thing I have said to be a lie so theres that. I know you won't believe me but the data shows your friends and family will most likely be fine from the jab certainly more likely to be hurt from covid than from the vaccine if you look at it purely as a risk mitigation analysis. We will have to agree to disagree here and for everyone's sake lets both hope I am right.
Post by: macsak on October 26, 2021, 09:19:15 PM
I'll take that as a compliment :thumbsup:
You've never shown a single thing I have said to be a lie so theres that. I know you won't believe me but the data shows your friends and family will most likely be fine from the jab certainly more likely to be hurt from covid than from the vaccine if you look at it purely as a risk mitigation analysis. We will have to agree to disagree here and for everyone's sake lets both hope I am right.
would that be "all available data", or just your general feeling?
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 26, 2021, 10:32:17 PM
I'll take that as a complimentData also shows once 1 catches covid 1st, they will be fine. And thats a huge if he catches it. Cause without catching covid, his risk is zero covid symptoms.
You've never shown a single thing I have said to be a lie so theres that. I know you won't believe me but the data shows your friends and family will most likely be fine from the jab certainly more likely to be hurt from covid than from the vaccine if you look at it purely as a risk mitigation analysis. We will have to agree to disagree here and for everyone's sake lets both hope I am right.
At HI's high point for delta, 17,000 are positive in 1 month and like 450 in the hospital. So lets double that cause hospital stay has coming and going. So 900 ÷ 17,000. 0.05% chance of ending up in a hospital.
17,000 ÷ 1,400,000 (HI population). 0.01% chance of catching covid.
Putting an expirental drug in ones body already increases any chance of a bad side effect. Compared to not getting injected and zero side effects.
Math is awesome and so is being lucky and not the 0.01% or 0.05%.
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Post by: drck1000 on October 26, 2021, 10:32:51 PM
would that be "all available data", or just your general feeling?Emotionally attached to the truth…
Post by: hvybarrels on October 26, 2021, 10:37:29 PM
Emotionally attached to the truth…
Most experts agree
Post by: MassConfusion on October 27, 2021, 07:57:45 AM
Data also shows once 1 catches covid 1st, they will be fine. And thats a huge if he catches it. Cause without catching covid, his risk is zero covid symptoms.(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b0/74/1d/b0741dabcb845b4e5990c647bc07c14e.jpg)
At HI's high point for delta, 17,000 are positive in 1 month and like 450 in the hospital. So lets double that cause hospital stay has coming and going. So 900 ÷ 17,000. 0.05% chance of ending up in a hospital.
17,000 ÷ 1,400,000 (HI population). 0.01% chance of catching covid.
Putting an expirental drug in ones body already increases any chance of a bad side effect. Compared to not getting injected and zero side effects.
Math is awesome and so is being lucky and not the 0.01% or 0.05%.
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Post by: macsak on October 27, 2021, 08:40:38 AM
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b0/74/1d/b0741dabcb845b4e5990c647bc07c14e.jpg)
1 out of 5 dentists recommend sugared gum...
Post by: aletheuo137 on October 27, 2021, 09:40:10 AM
1 out of 5 dentists recommend sugared gum...Dumb and Dumber - One in a Million
https://youtu.be/XEhixvM0wKw
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Post by: changemyoil66 on October 27, 2021, 11:24:21 AM
4th shot. But what about 5th shot and so on...
Post by: MassConfusion on October 27, 2021, 02:26:37 PM
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2021/10/27/cdc-4th-covid-19-shot-may-be-needed-immunocompromised-people/?fbclid=IwAR3vO3VU-eLVLtYOVCl07tSPDNFQYAnDylWOD85LpWjl9KFoxN2RO_ERgFoKa-ching. Cash cow baby. Show me the money! Think about all the profits they will reap from all those shots. You have been drafted into the big pharma tread mill. Shoot you up til you drop.
4th shot. But what about 5th shot and so on...
Might as well buy some stock in the companies that are producing the life saving cocktails that you will be injected with now and until you die.... from something. Its a wonderful business model. Get the customer hooked and he will keep coming back for more product. Customers for life. :wacko:
Post by: eyeeatingfish on October 27, 2021, 08:29:58 PM
Ka-ching. Cash cow baby. Show me the money! Think about all the profits they will reap from all those shots. You have been drafted into the big pharma tread mill. Shoot you up til you drop.
Might as well buy some stock in the companies that are producing the life saving cocktails that you will be injected with now and until you die.... from something. Its a wonderful business model. Get the customer hooked and he will keep coming back for more product. Customers for life. :wacko:
What about tetanus, hepatitus, and other vaccines that have booster shots, are those all just cash cows too?
As I see it there are two basic possibilities. Either:
A. Vaccine boosters are just a cash grab
B. They actually work and are necessary to maintaining resistance.
Having a profit motive inevtiably raises the question of whether it is being done for money but it doesn't automatically mean the intentions are profits over people's wellbeing. But do we assume negative intentions about everything?
Are gun practice suggestions just a ploy to sell more bullets?
Are tire wear marks just a ploy to sell more tires?
Is testing your smoker every month a ploy to make them wear out faster or to sell more batteries?
Etc.
Post by: ren on October 27, 2021, 09:19:00 PM
What about tetanus, hepatitus, and other vaccines that have booster shots, are those all just cash cows too?
As I see it there are two basic possibilities. Either:
A. Vaccine boosters are just a cash grab
B. They actually work and are necessary to maintaining resistance.
Having a profit motive inevtiably raises the question of whether it is being done for money but it doesn't automatically mean the intentions are profits over people's wellbeing. But do we assume negative intentions about everything?
Are gun practice suggestions just a ploy to sell more bullets?
Are tire wear marks just a ploy to sell more tires?
Is testing your smoker every month a ploy to make them wear out faster or to sell more batteries?
Etc.
Why is the sky blue? Stare at it, study it and write a peer reviewed article on it. Life isn't pragmatic.
Post by: MassConfusion on October 27, 2021, 09:36:50 PM
What about tetanus, hepatitus, and other vaccines that have booster shots, are those all just cash cows too?You are weaseling around the subject. You know what I am refering to. We are discussing something that your govt wants to put in your body with or with out your conscent by means of trickery or coersion. We are not talking about tires or televisions or cameras or batteries. We are talking about something that best case it woild seem to be a cash grab. Remind me how much safety testing has been done before they started to put this in people. You should be able to tell me what the long terms effects will be right? Can you tell me difinatively that this will do no harm? It already has in people, far more than all past vaccines. I am reluctant to call it a vaccine because it seems to not imbue the recipient with any sort of immunity. 95% then 65% and now you need boosters every few months for something that was equally or less likely to kill you than the seasonal flu? Btw what happened to the flu last year? Why has the CEO of I think it was Pfizer not taken it? How many other doctors under the threat of losing their license spoken out against this? How come the vax inserts were blank but you had informed conscent somehow? What would happen if this was something else entirely? If something was so good for you why would you have to try so hard to get people to take it? It is still EUA not even approved. I dont trust it. If you are vaxxed why do you care what I do, your safe right? No such thing as natural immunity right? Depends on the day of the week I suppose. What if you are wrong? There is no cure or taking something like this back.
As I see it there are two basic possibilities. Either:
A. Vaccine boosters are just a cash grab
B. They actually work and are necessary to maintaining resistance.
Having a profit motive inevtiably raises the question of whether it is being done for money but it doesn't automatically mean the intentions are profits over people's wellbeing. But do we assume negative intentions about everything?
Are gun practice suggestions just a ploy to sell more bullets?
Are tire wear marks just a ploy to sell more tires?
Is testing your smoker every month a ploy to make them wear out faster or to sell more batteries?
Etc.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on October 27, 2021, 09:56:19 PM
What about tetanus, hepatitus, and other vaccines that have booster shots, are those all just cash cows too?
As I see it there are two basic possibilities. Either:
A. Vaccine boosters are just a cash grab
B. They actually work and are necessary to maintaining resistance.
Having a profit motive inevtiably raises the question of whether it is being done for money but it doesn't automatically mean the intentions are profits over people's wellbeing. But do we assume negative intentions about everything?
Are gun practice suggestions just a ploy to sell more bullets?
Are tire wear marks just a ploy to sell more tires?
Is testing your smoker every month a ploy to make them wear out faster or to sell more batteries?
Etc.
I've received tetanus, malaria, hepatitis, and other vaccinations, as well as boosters, but with the exception of getting them in the military when traveling to areas at high risk for such diseases, the OPTION to get vaccinated was MINE. There are lists of recommended shots travelers should CONSIDER GETTING when going to these particular regions. They don't force you to take them or restrict your freedom of movement if you aren't vaccinated.
Therefore, we can pretty much call your analogies and comparisons "Apples vs. Oranges." Those vaccines are completely unrelated to the current COVID vaccination rules of engagement.
Boosters are another Red Herring. So few major disease vaccinations require boosters every 3-6 months like COVID. Even the annual flu shots are NOT boosters. They are RE-VACCINATIONS that are no different than what a first time shot consists of. In all the times I received the flu shot, I NEVER ONCE received a "booster." If it was happening, they would have needed to know when I had my last dose. was never asked, and they never bothered to check.
Tetanus needs a booster after 10 years unless you are injured on rusty metal or other object that might put you at risk. When I go to the doctor, they look up the last time I had a booster, and don't bother with another when they see I was cut by a piece of metal or stepped on a nail the past decade. Therefore, even if you get this booster, you need another shot if you get injured just to be safe. Again, apples to oranges. The COVID vaccine to my knowledge is not being administered to anyone who may be/is infected, but for tetanus, they do that.
The vaccines for COVID are new technology. Comparing them to what other vaccines require and do not require is pointless.
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 27, 2021, 10:48:51 PM
Ive had my c pox, tetanus, hep c, all willingly. As in no objection. And i would do all again if i had to go back in time. Why, because these have been around for generations and we are aware of the side effects.
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Post by: Flapp_Jackson on October 27, 2021, 11:00:20 PM
Im not anti vaxx, im anti covid vaxx.
Ive had my c pox, tetanus, hep c, all willingly. As in no objection. And i would do all again if i had to go back in time. Why, because these have been around for generations and we are aware of the side effects.
Not only that, but they are effective and safe based on millions of people in the sample size over a very long period of time. The types of vaccinations are also well known and based on tried and true methods.
COVID is the first vaccine using these types of technical processes. We had NO approved mRNA vaccines before COVID, even after decades of development and testing.
We're being asked to trust people producing something that's not be proven safe and effective until they started testing during the pandemic. It's okay if you trust them. People need to respect the fact that others may not trust them. There is no "truth" in this -- but there are still lots of unknowns.
Recently, women have stopped taking any hormone based birth control for a variety of reasons. My daughter stopped because the "pill" was causing behavioral and emotional issues ... hallucinations, feelings of dread, anxiety, etc. She not only stopped the pill, but had to be prescribed meds to help with the anxiety -- something she never experienced prior to taking birth control.
After all these DECADES of use, healthcare workers are only now seeing a pattern and linking it to the hormonal changes caused by taking the pill or wearing the patch.
But somehow, the "experts" know everything there is to know about a vaccine that didn't exist 2 years ago?
I'll trust the science when I see the science.
Post by: macsak on October 27, 2021, 11:03:23 PM
Not only that, but they are effective and safe based on millions of people in the sample size over a very long period of time. The types of vaccinations are also well known and based on tried and true methods.
COVID is the first vaccine using these types of technical processes. We had NO approved mRNA vaccines before COVID, even after decades of development and testing.
We're being asked to trust people producing something that's not be proven safe and effective until they started testing during the pandemic. It's okay if you trust them. People need to respect the fact that others may not trust them. There is no "truth" in this -- but there are still lots of unknowns.
Recently, women have stopped taking any hormone based birth control for a variety of reasons. My daughter stopped because the "pill" was causing behavioral and emotional issues ... hallucinations, feelings of dread, anxiety, etc. She not only stopped the pill, but had to be prescribed meds to help with the anxiety -- something she never experienced prior to taking birth control.
After all these DECADES of use, healthcare workers are only now seeing a pattern and linking it to the hormonal changes caused by taking the pill or wearing the patch.
But somehow, the "experts" know everything there is to know about a vaccine that didn't exist 2 years ago?
I'll trust the science when I see the science.
all available data says it is safe and effective...
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on October 27, 2021, 11:05:55 PM
all available data says it is safe and effective...
"We believe the man was a victim of alien abduction, because we have no evidence to the contrary."
Post by: hvybarrels on October 28, 2021, 11:29:10 AM
all available data says it is safe and effective...
And if happen to come across some data that contradicts the Scientific Consensus (TM) then quickly avert your eyes and say 5 Hail Fauci's.
You don't want to turn into one of those filthy conthipiwathy theowithts now, do you?
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 28, 2021, 11:48:45 AM
And if happen to come across some data that contradicts the Scientific Consensus (TM) then quickly avert your eyes and say 5 Hail Fauci's.
You don't want to turn into one of those filthy conthipiwathy theowithts now, do you?
He will give up that ammo that he doesn't own. :rofl:
Post by: eyeeatingfish on October 28, 2021, 09:03:35 PM
You are weaseling around the subject. You know what I am refering to. We are discussing something that your govt wants to put in your body with or with out your conscent by means of trickery or coersion. We are not talking about tires or televisions or cameras or batteries. We are talking about something that best case it woild seem to be a cash grab. Remind me how much safety testing has been done before they started to put this in people. You should be able to tell me what the long terms effects will be right? Can you tell me difinatively that this will do no harm? It already has in people, far more than all past vaccines. I am reluctant to call it a vaccine because it seems to not imbue the recipient with any sort of immunity. 95% then 65% and now you need boosters every few months for something that was equally or less likely to kill you than the seasonal flu? Btw what happened to the flu last year? Why has the CEO of I think it was Pfizer not taken it? How many other doctors under the threat of losing their license spoken out against this? How come the vax inserts were blank but you had informed conscent somehow? What would happen if this was something else entirely? If something was so good for you why would you have to try so hard to get people to take it? It is still EUA not even approved. I dont trust it. If you are vaxxed why do you care what I do, your safe right? No such thing as natural immunity right? Depends on the day of the week I suppose. What if you are wrong? There is no cure or taking something like this back.
There was 30 years of research into this technology before it became used in a vaccine. However there was the J&J option which was not based on the mRNA and that's the one I went for, i figured all else equal at least it was a more tried and true method. No one can tell you definitively that any vaccine will do no harm. There is such a thing as natural immunity and it is quite good. They didn't know the answer to this question initially but the data coming out now seems to be making this case.
The point about various other products was only to illustrate how the profit motive could taint any industry and had nothing to do directly with vaccines. It is interesting now to see many conservatives making arguments against the profit motive of big companies though, they are essentially making a case for government healthcare.
Back to vaccines, a number of vaccines children are required to have to go to school are multi dose vaccines, are they all just cash grabs as well? What if boosters are just the nature of the virus? Should they avoid making a booster which would lead to a weaker immune system just so no one can claim they are trying to profit?
Lots of fair questions but all I can say is that I look at it as a logical risk analysis decision. What are my risks if I do take it and what are my risks if I don't take it. From all the reading and listening I have done I concluded the known risk of not taking it is significantly higher than the known risk of taking it. I also took it so as to reduce my risk to my parents since they are in their 60's.
As for the CEO of pfizer, it looks like he did take the vaccine. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/03/30/fact-check-pfizer-ceo-albert-bourla-received-covid-19-vaccine/7028843002/
The disappearance of the flu is an interesting question and the last I heard on it is that they are still trying to figure that one out.
Why would people try hard to get you to take something if it was that good for you. Tell that to my kids and their vegetables!
Post by: eyeeatingfish on October 28, 2021, 09:16:39 PM
I've received tetanus, malaria, hepatitis, and other vaccinations, as well as boosters, but with the exception of getting them in the military when traveling to areas at high risk for such diseases, the OPTION to get vaccinated was MINE. There are lists of recommended shots travelers should CONSIDER GETTING when going to these particular regions. They don't force you to take them or restrict your freedom of movement if you aren't vaccinated.
Therefore, we can pretty much call your analogies and comparisons "Apples vs. Oranges." Those vaccines are completely unrelated to the current COVID vaccination rules of engagement.
Boosters are another Red Herring. So few major disease vaccinations require boosters every 3-6 months like COVID. Even the annual flu shots are NOT boosters. They are RE-VACCINATIONS that are no different than what a first time shot consists of. In all the times I received the flu shot, I NEVER ONCE received a "booster." If it was happening, they would have needed to know when I had my last dose. was never asked, and they never bothered to check.
Tetanus needs a booster after 10 years unless you are injured on rusty metal or other object that might put you at risk. When I go to the doctor, they look up the last time I had a booster, and don't bother with another when they see I was cut by a piece of metal or stepped on a nail the past decade. Therefore, even if you get this booster, you need another shot if you get injured just to be safe. Again, apples to oranges. The COVID vaccine to my knowledge is not being administered to anyone who may be/is infected, but for tetanus, they do that.
The vaccines for COVID are new technology. Comparing them to what other vaccines require and do not require is pointless.
My point about comparing other vaccines with boosters was only to address the profit motive and this point would remain the same whether covid and covid boosters were mandatory or voluntary. Mandating the vaccines/boosters is a whole separate issue. I think we are already in agreement on the issue of mandatory vaccinations.
A covid booster is the same ingredients as the vaccine, it just serves a different purpose. The initial dose of a vaccine is to teach your body to fight the virus and the booster is to reinforce the immunity that has been developed. Some people, such as those with weakened immune systems are recommended to take boosters because the initial 2 doses were not enough to establish a strong enough immune response. This is because immunity wanes, even natural immunity wanes. And as you get older your immunity system also weakens. The contents of the dose are the same whether booster or initial vaccine doses.
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/booster-shots-and-third-doses-for-covid19-vaccines-what-you-need-to-know
Post by: eyeeatingfish on October 28, 2021, 09:22:34 PM
Im not anti vaxx, im anti covid vaxx.
Ive had my c pox, tetanus, hep c, all willingly. As in no objection. And i would do all again if i had to go back in time. Why, because these have been around for generations and we are aware of the side effects.
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This makes me wonder, how effective are these vaccines and how fast to they wane? How do they compare to the covid vaccine? (since we should apply the same rigorous standards)
Post by: macsak on October 28, 2021, 09:50:53 PM
This makes me wonder, how effective are these vaccines and how fast to they wane? How do they compare to the covid vaccine? (since we should apply the same rigorous standards)
so you question existing, proven vaccines, yet say that covid19 vaccines are clearly safe because side effects would have shown by now?
nice...
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 28, 2021, 10:36:39 PM
There was 30 years of research into this technology before it became used in a vaccine. However there was the J&J option which was not based on the mRNA and that's the one I went for, i figured all else equal at least it was a more tried and true method. No one can tell you definitively that any vaccine will do no harm. There is such a thing as natural immunity and it is quite good. They didn't know the answer to this question initially but the data coming out now seems to be making this case.
The point about various other products was only to illustrate how the profit motive could taint any industry and had nothing to do directly with vaccines. It is interesting now to see many conservatives making arguments against the profit motive of big companies though, they are essentially making a case for government healthcare.
Back to vaccines, a number of vaccines children are required to have to go to school are multi dose vaccines, are they all just cash grabs as well? What if boosters are just the nature of the virus? Should they avoid making a booster which would lead to a weaker immune system just so no one can claim they are trying to profit?
Lots of fair questions but all I can say is that I look at it as a logical risk analysis decision. What are my risks if I do take it and what are my risks if I don't take it. From all the reading and listening I have done I concluded the known risk of not taking it is significantly higher than the known risk of taking it. I also took it so as to reduce my risk to my parents since they are in their 60's.
As for the CEO of pfizer, it looks like he did take the vaccine. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/03/30/fact-check-pfizer-ceo-albert-bourla-received-covid-19-vaccine/7028843002/
The disappearance of the flu is an interesting question and the last I heard on it is that they are still trying to figure that one out.
Why would people try hard to get you to take something if it was that good for you. Tell that to my kids and their vegetables!
Youre right about the MRNA tech, but what u may not know is it was never allowed to go to human trials until last year. Why do u think that is? Something must have stopped human usage.
.
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Post by: changemyoil66 on October 28, 2021, 10:38:23 PM
This makes me wonder, how effective are these vaccines and how fast to they wane? How do they compare to the covid vaccine? (since we should apply the same rigorous standards)Look up Israel prior to the 3rd vaxx. Long story short, majority of positives and hospitalized are fully vaxxed by Pfizer.
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Post by: MassConfusion on October 29, 2021, 07:06:56 AM
My point about comparing other vaccines with boosters was only to address the profit motive and this point would remain the same whether covid and covid boosters were mandatory or voluntary. Mandating the vaccines/boosters is a whole separate issue. I think we are already in agreement on the issue of mandatory vaccinations.These so called mrna vaccines have zero track record. There are no long term studies in humans and the short term study currently underway is showing serious complications. Reproduction is being effected in a few cases but you are not going to find out what that means for at least another few years. For all you know this may effectively sterilize people.
A covid booster is the same ingredients as the vaccine, it just serves a different purpose. The initial dose of a vaccine is to teach your body to fight the virus and the booster is to reinforce the immunity that has been developed. Some people, such as those with weakened immune systems are recommended to take boosters because the initial 2 doses were not enough to establish a strong enough immune response. This is because immunity wanes, even natural immunity wanes. And as you get older your immunity system also weakens. The contents of the dose are the same whether booster or initial vaccine doses.
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/booster-shots-and-third-doses-for-covid19-vaccines-what-you-need-to-know
I am not sure either how j n j could make a traditional vax when nobody has isolated and analized the sars covi 2 virus. From what I understand is that computer modeling was used in development of these vaxs and if that is the case more tgan likely you have a case of GIGO.
As for having people looking into the disappearance of the seasonal flu? Seriously? We got our top people on it.... Our top people. Things like that dont just up and disappear. If you can't at least guess what happened to it you are either lieing or you drank the kool aide.
Also natural immunity to just about any virus should be a given and not a point of contention.
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 29, 2021, 11:13:57 AM
These so called mrna vaccines have zero track record. There are no long term studies in humans and the short term study currently underway is showing serious complications. Reproduction is being effected in a few cases but you are not going to find out what that means for at least another few years. For all you know this may effectively sterilize people.
I am not sure either how j n j could make a traditional vax when nobody has isolated and analized the sars covi 2 virus. From what I understand is that computer modeling was used in development of these vaxs and if that is the case more tgan likely you have a case of GIGO.
As for having people looking into the disappearance of the seasonal flu? Seriously? We got our top people on it.... Our top people. Things like that dont just up and disappear. If you can't at least guess what happened to it you are either lieing or you drank the kool aide.
Also natural immunity to just about any virus should be a given and not a point of contention.
Flu #s were released. The media made an error when they said NO ONE DIED FROM THE FLU. They were corrected by the Department of Heath because they were wrong. 1 person died from the flu.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on October 29, 2021, 07:28:37 PM
so you question existing, proven vaccines, yet say that covid19 vaccines are clearly safe because side effects would have shown by now?
nice...
Strawman.
I am questioning how covid compares to these other vaccines. Use existing vaccines as a baseline with which to compare the covid vaccine.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on October 29, 2021, 07:30:24 PM
Youre right about the MRNA tech, but what u may not know is it was never allowed to go to human trials until last year. Why do u think that is? Something must have stopped human usage.
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Could that thing just be bureaucracy? Trials are notoriously slow and just look at the difficulty for patients who are dying to be allowed to take experimental treatments.
Post by: macsak on October 29, 2021, 07:31:55 PM
Strawman.
I am questioning how covid compares to these other vaccines. Use existing vaccines as a baseline with which to compare the covid vaccine.
then why didn't you say that?
your first sentence questions the efficacy of existing vaccines...
therefore, NOT a strawman
Post by: macsak on October 29, 2021, 07:33:32 PM
Could that thing just be bureaucracy? Trials are notoriously slow and just look at the difficulty for patients who are dying to be allowed to take experimental treatments.
i guess you didn't look into the history of mRNA vaccines like we have asked several times...
Post by: eyeeatingfish on October 29, 2021, 07:40:58 PM
These so called mrna vaccines have zero track record. There are no long term studies in humans and the short term study currently underway is showing serious complications. Reproduction is being effected in a few cases but you are not going to find out what that means for at least another few years. For all you know this may effectively sterilize people.
Sure, these things are all potential possibilities, but I think we should weigh that against the unknowns of covid as well shouldn't we? What if covid affects reproduction and we don't find out for a few years?
I do have a certain amount of faith that scientists have, in their 3 decades of studying this mrna technology, figured out enough to at least have a general idea of how it interacts with our body. Doesn't alleviate all my fear though. I will say though, if everyone had the attitude of a new vaccine having zero track record then we would have any vaccines ever because no one would be willing to take it.
Quote
I am not sure either how j n j could make a traditional vax when nobody has isolated and analized the sars covi 2 virus. From what I understand is that computer modeling was used in development of these vaxs and if that is the case more tgan likely you have a case of GIGO.
As for having people looking into the disappearance of the seasonal flu? Seriously? We got our top people on it.... Our top people. Things like that dont just up and disappear. If you can't at least guess what happened to it you are either lieing or you drank the kool aide.
Also natural immunity to just about any virus should be a given and not a point of contention.
I think figuring out the current pandemic would be more high priority than figuring out why the flu isn't killing more people. Plus the masking, hand washing, and isolation sure makes a lot sense in explaining this disappearance.
I fully agree it is a stupid mistake not to consider natural immunity as equivalent to being vaccinated for the purposes of any government mandates.
I don't know what you mean when you say no one has isolated and analyzed the covid virus. So we haven't really seen it under a microscope before?
Post by: eyeeatingfish on October 29, 2021, 07:41:42 PM
i guess you didn't look into the history of mRNA vaccines like we have asked several times...
Perhaps you would like to narrow it down a little bit. 3 decades is a bit much for light reading.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on October 29, 2021, 07:45:40 PM
then why didn't you say that?
your first sentence questions the efficacy of existing vaccines...
therefore, NOT a strawman
Questioned the efficacy so we could compare them to other vaccines. So for example if covid vaccines are 65% effective but most other vaccines are 75% effective (made up number) then we have a gauge to say how good or poorly the covid vaccine is fairing.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on October 29, 2021, 07:49:04 PM
Post by: macsak on October 29, 2021, 07:53:23 PM
From the news I have heard, a company is developing a traditional style vaccine to combat covid (inactivated viruses). I am curious, for the people who are vaccine hesitant due to mRNA being a new technology, would you guys then go get this new vaccine?
those types of vaccines already exist
sinovac (chinese) and sputnik (russian)
Post by: macsak on October 29, 2021, 07:56:00 PM
From the news I have heard, a company is developing a traditional style vaccine to combat covid (inactivated viruses). I am curious, for the people who are vaccine hesitant due to mRNA being a new technology, would you guys then go get this new vaccine?
novavax (using moth cells to make spike proteins) is perhaps what you are thinking of
this is also a more traditional form of vaccine (making parts of the virus that are unable to replicate and infect)
and is more close to being approved
however, they are having issues with being able to efficiently get a proper concentration of spike protein...
Post by: macsak on October 29, 2021, 07:56:58 PM
Questioned the efficacy so we could compare them to other vaccines. So for example if covid vaccines are 65% effective but most other vaccines are 75% effective (made up number) then we have a gauge to say how good or poorly the covid vaccine is fairing.
faring
Post by: macsak on October 29, 2021, 07:57:59 PM
Questioned the efficacy so we could compare them to other vaccines. So for example if covid vaccines are 65% effective but most other vaccines are 75% effective (made up number) then we have a gauge to say how good or poorly the covid vaccine is fairing.
if you would have worded it like in your second post, it would've been obvious what your point was
therefore, not a strawman
Post by: eyeeatingfish on October 29, 2021, 08:18:44 PM
those types of vaccines already exist
sinovac (chinese) and sputnik (russian)
You didn't answer my question though. And for the sake of my question I had in mind an American vaccine.
(Personally I wouldn't trust a Russian vaccine and even less so a Chinese one)
Post by: eyeeatingfish on October 29, 2021, 08:20:41 PM
novavax (using moth cells to make spike proteins) is perhaps what you are thinking of
this is also a more traditional form of vaccine (making parts of the virus that are unable to replicate and infect)
and is more close to being approved
however, they are having issues with being able to efficiently get a proper concentration of spike protein...
Possibly. I haven't heard manyspecifics about the traditional style vaccine, only that a company was making one. My wife said Japan is also working on a traditional style vaccine too.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on October 29, 2021, 08:21:20 PM
if you would have worded it like in your second post, it would've been obvious what your point was
therefore, not a strawman
Agree to disagree. Regardless, glad we could resolve it.
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 29, 2021, 08:32:22 PM
Could that thing just be bureaucracy? Trials are notoriously slow and just look at the difficulty for patients who are dying to be allowed to take experimental treatments.Decades slow? They must be have all oahu c&c workers.
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Post by: changemyoil66 on October 29, 2021, 08:35:05 PM
You didn't answer my question though. And for the sake of my question I had in mind an American vaccine.I would trust the vaxx putins daughter took. If it didnt work or anything went wrong (side effects), to the gulag every scientist goes.
(Personally I wouldn't trust a Russian vaccine and even less so a Chinese one)
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Post by: macsak on October 29, 2021, 08:50:49 PM
You didn't answer my question though. And for the sake of my question I had in mind an American vaccine.
(Personally I wouldn't trust a Russian vaccine and even less so a Chinese one)
why do i have to answer your question?
it's just one more of your hypothetical word games...
Post by: MassConfusion on October 29, 2021, 10:06:25 PM
Sure, these things are all potential possibilities, but I think we should weigh that against the unknowns of covid as well shouldn't we? What if covid affects reproduction and we don't find out for a few years?You are making this harder than it has to be.
I do have a certain amount of faith that scientists have, in their 3 decades of studying this mrna technology, figured out enough to at least have a general idea of how it interacts with our body. Doesn't alleviate all my fear though. I will say though, if everyone had the attitude of a new vaccine having zero track record then we would have any vaccines ever because no one would be willing to take it.
I think figuring out the current pandemic would be more high priority than figuring out why the flu isn't killing more people. Plus the masking, hand washing, and isolation sure makes a lot sense in explaining this disappearance.
I fully agree it is a stupid mistake not to consider natural immunity as equivalent to being vaccinated for the purposes of any government mandates.
I don't know what you mean when you say no one has isolated and analyzed the covid virus. So we haven't really seen it under a microscope before?
https://www.johnccarleton.org/BLOGGER/2021/08/07/written-proof-cdc-has-no-isolated-purified-sample-of-sars-cov-2-virus-that-causes-covid-19/
So how did they make a vaccine for a virus they didnt analyse? The patents for the "vaxxs" were filed years ago. The current tests dont distinguish between covid, flu, cold or others.
Masks never got rid of the flu same as they dont stop covid. Where did the flu go? Probably nowhere. Covid flu cold.... Whatever.
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/47-studies-confirm-inefectiveness-of-masks-for-covid-and-32-more-confirm-their-negative-health-effects/
EUA vax would not be allowed to be authorized unless no treatments are available. Ignore the hit pieces on HCQ and the 2015 Nobel prize for ivermectin and you are set. EUA granted. :wacko:
Post by: macsak on October 30, 2021, 05:58:05 AM
You are making this harder than it has to be.
https://www.johnccarleton.org/BLOGGER/2021/08/07/written-proof-cdc-has-no-isolated-purified-sample-of-sars-cov-2-virus-that-causes-covid-19/
that doesn't say what you think it says
Post by: macsak on October 30, 2021, 05:58:58 AM
You are making this harder than it has to be.
https://www.johnccarleton.org/BLOGGER/2021/08/07/written-proof-cdc-has-no-isolated-purified-sample-of-sars-cov-2-virus-that-causes-covid-19/
So how did they make a vaccine for a virus they didnt analyse? The patents for the "vaxxs" were filed years ago. The current tests dont distinguish between covid, flu, cold or others.
Masks never got rid of the flu same as they dont stop covid. Where did the flu go? Probably nowhere. Covid flu cold.... Whatever.
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/47-studies-confirm-inefectiveness-of-masks-for-covid-and-32-more-confirm-their-negative-health-effects/
EUA vax would not be allowed to be authorized unless no treatments are available. Ignore the hit pieces on HCQ and the 2015 Nobel prize for ivermectin and you are set. EUA granted. :wacko:
yes, they do
Post by: hvybarrels on October 30, 2021, 09:26:09 AM
why do i have to answer your question?
it's just one more of your hypothetical word games...
(https://c.tenor.com/LZv9oJ3ZB_UAAAAC/word-salad.gif)
Post by: hvybarrels on October 30, 2021, 12:24:55 PM
Zero benefit. Way too much risk. This goes beyond unethical or negligent into the territory of criminal and possibly even demonic.
Post by: Inspector on October 30, 2021, 01:18:32 PM
https://www.kitv.com/story/45087930/fda-authorizes-pfizers-covid-19-vaccine-for-children-5-to-11The death rate for children of this age group is so minuscule and negligible that I agree with what you are saying here.
Zero benefit. Way too much risk. This goes beyond unethical or negligent into the territory of criminal and possibly even demonic.
Post by: Inspector on October 31, 2021, 04:54:36 AM
https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=38772.msg401800#msg401800
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 31, 2021, 08:26:44 AM
But now her period is different (got vaxxed and 1st cycle changed). Gyno said if it continues for 3 months to call her back, but for now dont worry.
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Post by: hvybarrels on October 31, 2021, 07:19:05 PM
The media loves stories like these. But ignore the millions who didnt die. Im a perfect example. Totally fine and was unvaxxed. Mrs. Cmo too.
But now her period is different (got vaxxed and 1st cycle changed). Gyno said if it continues for 3 months to call her back, but for now dont worry.
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Thousands of women going through the same thing. Scary big blood clots coming out, miscarriages, etc.
Meanwhile the media is silent. Their goal is to protect corporate profits at all cost.
(https://defendingtherepublic.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/18.jpg)
Post by: omnigun on November 01, 2021, 09:42:46 AM
Thousands of women going through the same thing. Scary big blood clots coming out, miscarriages, etc.
Meanwhile the media is silent. Their goal is to protect corporate profits at all cost.
Misleading, borderline #fakenews.
Miscarriages have been happing since the beginning of man, as other health issues. There is no conclusive evidence that the vaccine is dangerous.
As for that "picture" its was your man Trump who wanted to "rush" it. It was a crisis and additional steps needed to be done. Trump did good on that. Realized the issue and acted quick. Imagine if we had that attitude against other threats like China.
Post by: hvybarrels on November 01, 2021, 10:49:09 AM
Post by: changemyoil66 on November 01, 2021, 10:54:28 AM
(https://sinfest.xyz/btphp/comics/2021-10-26.jpg)Jokes aside, 4th stamp is already getting punched.
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Post by: hvybarrels on November 02, 2021, 02:11:58 PM
- Eliquis (bloodclots) + 19%
- Vyndaqel (neuropathology and myocarditis) + 42%
- Various oncological products +9% to + 34%
Source https://investors.pfizer.com/events-and-presentations/event-details/2021/Pfizer-Quarterly-Corporate-Performance--Third-Quarter-2021/default.aspx
In other words, it looks a lot like the mRNA drugs are poison and the drug companies are also making a killing by treating their dangerous side effects.
One thing is for sure; Sick people are way more profitable.
Post by: omnigun on November 02, 2021, 03:55:39 PM
Pfizer's 3rd quarter financial report was just released. Comparisons are with Q3 of 2020
- Eliquis (bloodclots) + 19%
- Vyndaqel (neuropathology and myocarditis) + 42%
- Various oncological products +9% to + 34%
Source https://investors.pfizer.com/events-and-presentations/event-details/2021/Pfizer-Quarterly-Corporate-Performance--Third-Quarter-2021/default.aspx
In other words, it looks a lot like the mRNA drugs are poison and the drug companies are also making a killing by treating their dangerous side effects.
One thing is for sure; Sick people are way more profitable.
Something something about causation and correlation.
Post by: hvybarrels on November 02, 2021, 07:12:28 PM
https://theexpose.uk/2021/10/31/100-percent-of-covid-19-vaccine-deaths-caused-by-just-5-percent-of-the-batches-produced/ (https://theexpose.uk/2021/10/31/100-percent-of-covid-19-vaccine-deaths-caused-by-just-5-percent-of-the-batches-produced/)
EXCLUSIVE – 100% of Covid-19 Vaccine Deaths were caused by just 5% of the batches produced according to official Government data
Post by: hvybarrels on November 02, 2021, 07:26:35 PM
https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/foiad-cdc-emails-our-definition-vaccine-problematic
The prior CDC Definitions of Vaccine and Vaccination (August 26, 2021):
Vaccine: A product that stimulates a person’s immune system to produce immunity to a specific disease, protecting the person from that disease. Vaccines are usually administered through needle injections, but can also be administered by mouth or sprayed into the nose.
Vaccination: The act of introducing a vaccine into the body to produce immunity to a specific disease.
The CDC Definitions of Vaccine and Vaccination since September 1, 2021:
Vaccine: A preparation that is used to stimulate the body’s immune response against diseases. Vaccines are usually administered through needle injections, but some can be administered by mouth or sprayed into the nose.
Vaccination: The act of introducing a vaccine into the body to produce protection from a specific disease.
Post by: Direjackalope on November 02, 2021, 07:54:56 PM
Post by: changemyoil66 on November 03, 2021, 12:41:33 PM
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on November 03, 2021, 12:45:38 PM
Talked to a gym acquaintance the other night and his view on getting the jab was: "I inject myself with oil (synthol), what's the harm a vaxx could do?" I mean, he does have a point.
Man injects himself with oil.
Wonders why his friends call him "Slick."
8)
Post by: changemyoil66 on November 03, 2021, 03:13:00 PM
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Post by: hvybarrels on November 03, 2021, 05:31:10 PM
That 28yo you know who had a heart attack/stroke after taking the mRNA drugs? It's just a coincidence. Pay no attention.
Post by: omnigun on November 04, 2021, 08:18:10 AM
https://www.zerohedge.com/medical/something-really-strange-happening-hospitals-all-over-america
That 28yo you know who had a heart attack/stroke after taking the mRNA drugs? It's just a coincidence. Pay no attention.
Plenty of strange things happened pre-covid. Something something causation and correlation.
Post by: hvybarrels on November 04, 2021, 10:17:40 AM
https://youtu.be/gnB8Tep92Us
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on November 04, 2021, 01:11:54 PM
It's now been about 3 months, and she's apparently developing Psoriasis. She has a doctor appointment this coming Tuesday to have it checked out.
There's no history of these types of skin diseases in our family, she's beyond the age at which this disease normally presents, and the only thing she falls under which could be a factor listed on medical websites is "vaccinations."
Good thing there are no long term negative side effects from this miracle vaccine! :wacko:
It'll be interesting to see if the same HMO doctor that administered the vaccination will now try to avoid blaming the shot before getting any test results or evaluating other possible causes.
Post by: changemyoil66 on November 04, 2021, 01:32:55 PM
My younger daughter is 32. She received the Pfizer vaccine a few months ago in preparation for her late-Sept mainland trip.
It's now been about 3 months, and she's apparently developing Psoriasis. She has a doctor appointment this coming Tuesday to have it checked out.
There's no history of these types of skin diseases in our family, she's beyond the age at which this disease normally presents, and the only thing she falls under which could be a factor listed on medical websites is "vaccinations."
Good thing there are no long term negative side effects from this miracle vaccine! :wacko:
It'll be interesting to see if the same HMO doctor that administered the vaccination will now try to avoid blaming the shot before getting any test results or evaluating other possible causes.
Sorry to hear that. I have eczema, which is close to psoriasis. But I've had it since high school and it is managed by steroidal and non-steroidal creams. Like goes away 100%. But if I stop the cream for 3-4 weeks, it comes back. Luckily, it's just in the corner of my eyes about the size of a grain of rice. I got friends who have either and it's like all over their body, or like football size patch on their arm.
There is no history of eczema in my family either. But now that I think back, in high school is when I got more vaxxes in order to play sports. I dont' remember specifically which ones. Correlation =/= causation.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on November 04, 2021, 01:46:02 PM
Sorry to hear that. I have eczema, which is close to psoriasis. But I've had it since high school and it is managed by steroidal and non-steroidal creams. Like goes away 100%. But if I stop the cream for 3-4 weeks, it comes back. Luckily, it's just in the corner of my eyes about the size of a grain of rice. I got friends who have either and it's like all over their body, or like football size patch on their arm.
There is no history of eczema in my family either. But now that I think back, in high school is when I got more vaxxes in order to play sports. I dont' remember specifically which ones. Correlation =/= causation.
In the absence of other explanations, what's left is certainly cause for justifiable suspicion.
Yeah, she's got a large-ish patch on her throat, and small patches at the corner of both eyes., plus minor irritations around her eyes.
Post by: aletheuo137 on November 04, 2021, 02:02:07 PM
My younger daughter is 32. She received the Pfizer vaccine a few months ago in preparation for her late-Sept mainland trip.Yeah, we have a lady in our church that started to get a rash after the first shot. Then she got the second and it spread to her whole body. Doctor had been running test and different treatments but to no avail.
It's now been about 3 months, and she's apparently developing Psoriasis. She has a doctor appointment this coming Tuesday to have it checked out.
There's no history of these types of skin diseases in our family, she's beyond the age at which this disease normally presents, and the only thing she falls under which could be a factor listed on medical websites is "vaccinations."
Good thing there are no long term negative side effects from this miracle vaccine! :wacko:
It'll be interesting to see if the same HMO doctor that administered the vaccination will now try to avoid blaming the shot before getting any test results or evaluating other possible causes.
Sent from my SM-A102U using Tapatalk
Post by: changemyoil66 on November 04, 2021, 02:10:06 PM
In the absence of other explanations, what's left is certainly cause for justifiable suspicion.
Yeah, she's got a large-ish patch on her throat, and small patches at the corner of both eyes., plus minor irritations around her eyes.
I'm gonna PM you as to not derail this jab thread regarding my XP with eczema.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on November 04, 2021, 02:35:19 PM
I just talked to my daughter, and she informed me that her mother had psoriasis appear in 2014, but very mild. We were divorced in 2005, so that's why we never knew.
She also informed me her mother-in-law has had it for about 8 years. Doing the math, 2014 was about 8 years ago. Strange coincidence? Her case has also been very mild. Both said they only experienced minor, short-term rashes a few times a year, mostly above the shoulders.
What is also coincidental is BOTH WOMEN have had the COVID vaccine, and both are now experiencing moderate to severe rashes on their legs, arms and torsos in addition to face and neck.
Things that make you go, "Hmmmmm!"
Post by: hvybarrels on November 04, 2021, 02:42:35 PM
(https://www.conejoguardian.org/2021/10/21/ventura-county-nurses-blow-the-whistle-on-crisis-in-local-health-care/)
(https://www.conejoguardian.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/nurses-1-696x304.png)
Post by: hvybarrels on November 04, 2021, 02:46:28 PM
The demand for nurses is unreal right now.
Post by: Inspector on November 04, 2021, 03:51:06 PM
Hospital Accused of Using Plastic Bags Over Patients to Stop COVID Spread
https://www.theepochtimes.com/hospital-accused-of-using-plastic-bags-over-patients-to-stop-covid-spread_4086852.html
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on November 04, 2021, 03:57:28 PM
Hospital Accused of Using Plastic Bags Over Patients to Stop COVID Spread
I find that a plastic bag properly applied and secured at the neck stops any disease from spreading.
Dead men don't sneeze. If they do, the bag will catch it!
:shake:
Post by: MassConfusion on November 05, 2021, 10:46:36 AM
Last week we told you how the Covid-19 vaccines were proving to have an average negative effectiveness in everyone over the age of 18 in the UK of minus-seventy-percent. Today we can reveal that the latest report available from the UK Health Security Agency, which has recently replaced Public Health England, shows that the Covid-19 vaccines are now proving to have an average negative effectiveness in everyone over the age of 18 in the UK of minus-seventy-three-percent, despite being weeks into a booster jab campaign.
Pfizer claim that there Covid-19 mRNA injection has a vaccine effectiveness of 95%. They were able to claim this because of the following –
During the ongoing clinical trial, 43,661 subjects were split evenly between the placebo and vaccine groups (about 21,830 subjects per group).
In the placebo group — the group that didn’t have the Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine — 162 became infected with the coronavirus and showed symptoms.
Whilst in the vaccine group — the group that got the real vaccine — that number was only 8.
Therefore the percentage of placebo group who became infected equated to 0.74% (162 / 21830 x 100 = 0.74).
Whilst 0.04% of the vaccinate group became infected (8 / 21830 x 100 = 0.04)
In order to calculate the efficacy of their Covid-19 mRNA injection, Pfizer then performed the following calculation –
They first subtracted the percentage of infections in the vaccinated group from the percentage of infections in the placebo group.
0.74% – 0.04% = 0.7%
Then they divided that total by the percentage of infections in the placebo group, which equated to 95%.
0.7 / 0.74 = 95%.
Therefore, Pfizer were able to claim that their Covid-19 mRNA injection is 95% effective.
We don’t need to go into the fact that this calculation was extremely misleading and only measured relative effectiveness rather than absolute effectiveness. Neither do we need to go into the fact that Pfizer chose to ignore thousands of other suspected infections during the ongoing trial and not perform a PCR test to confirm the infection because it would have thrown efficacy below the required minimum of 50% to gain regulatory approval.
(cont...)
https://theexpose.uk/2021/11/05/covid-19-have-average-effectiveness-of-minus-seventy-three-percent/
Post by: omnigun on November 05, 2021, 10:58:04 AM
Latest UKHSA report shows the Covid-19 Vaccines have an average real world effectiveness of MINUS 73%
Last week we told you how the Covid-19 vaccines were proving to have an average negative effectiveness in everyone over the age of 18 in the UK of minus-seventy-percent. Today we can reveal that the latest report available from the UK Health Security Agency, which has recently replaced Public Health England, shows that the Covid-19 vaccines are now proving to have an average negative effectiveness in everyone over the age of 18 in the UK of minus-seventy-three-percent, despite being weeks into a booster jab campaign.
Pfizer claim that there Covid-19 mRNA injection has a vaccine effectiveness of 95%. They were able to claim this because of the following –
During the ongoing clinical trial, 43,661 subjects were split evenly between the placebo and vaccine groups (about 21,830 subjects per group).
In the placebo group — the group that didn’t have the Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine — 162 became infected with the coronavirus and showed symptoms.
Whilst in the vaccine group — the group that got the real vaccine — that number was only 8.
Therefore the percentage of placebo group who became infected equated to 0.74% (162 / 21830 x 100 = 0.74).
Whilst 0.04% of the vaccinate group became infected (8 / 21830 x 100 = 0.04)
In order to calculate the efficacy of their Covid-19 mRNA injection, Pfizer then performed the following calculation –
They first subtracted the percentage of infections in the vaccinated group from the percentage of infections in the placebo group.
0.74% – 0.04% = 0.7%
Then they divided that total by the percentage of infections in the placebo group, which equated to 95%.
0.7 / 0.74 = 95%.
Therefore, Pfizer were able to claim that their Covid-19 mRNA injection is 95% effective.
We don’t need to go into the fact that this calculation was extremely misleading and only measured relative effectiveness rather than absolute effectiveness. Neither do we need to go into the fact that Pfizer chose to ignore thousands of other suspected infections during the ongoing trial and not perform a PCR test to confirm the infection because it would have thrown efficacy below the required minimum of 50% to gain regulatory approval.
(cont...)
https://theexpose.uk/2021/11/05/covid-19-have-average-effectiveness-of-minus-seventy-three-percent/
#Fakenews
Post by: aieahound on November 05, 2021, 11:05:31 AM
That is mass confusing.
:D
Post by: macsak on November 05, 2021, 11:25:45 AM
Latest UKHSA report shows the Covid-19 Vaccines have an average real world effectiveness of MINUS 73%
Last week we told you how the Covid-19 vaccines were proving to have an average negative effectiveness in everyone over the age of 18 in the UK of minus-seventy-percent. Today we can reveal that the latest report available from the UK Health Security Agency, which has recently replaced Public Health England, shows that the Covid-19 vaccines are now proving to have an average negative effectiveness in everyone over the age of 18 in the UK of minus-seventy-three-percent, despite being weeks into a booster jab campaign.
Pfizer claim that there Covid-19 mRNA injection has a vaccine effectiveness of 95%. They were able to claim this because of the following –
During the ongoing clinical trial, 43,661 subjects were split evenly between the placebo and vaccine groups (about 21,830 subjects per group).
In the placebo group — the group that didn’t have the Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine — 162 became infected with the coronavirus and showed symptoms.
Whilst in the vaccine group — the group that got the real vaccine — that number was only 8.
Therefore the percentage of placebo group who became infected equated to 0.74% (162 / 21830 x 100 = 0.74).
Whilst 0.04% of the vaccinate group became infected (8 / 21830 x 100 = 0.04)
In order to calculate the efficacy of their Covid-19 mRNA injection, Pfizer then performed the following calculation –
They first subtracted the percentage of infections in the vaccinated group from the percentage of infections in the placebo group.
0.74% – 0.04% = 0.7%
Then they divided that total by the percentage of infections in the placebo group, which equated to 95%.
0.7 / 0.74 = 95%.
Therefore, Pfizer were able to claim that their Covid-19 mRNA injection is 95% effective.
We don’t need to go into the fact that this calculation was extremely misleading and only measured relative effectiveness rather than absolute effectiveness. Neither do we need to go into the fact that Pfizer chose to ignore thousands of other suspected infections during the ongoing trial and not perform a PCR test to confirm the infection because it would have thrown efficacy below the required minimum of 50% to gain regulatory approval.
(cont...)
https://theexpose.uk/2021/11/05/covid-19-have-average-effectiveness-of-minus-seventy-three-percent/
Post by: ren on November 05, 2021, 11:37:54 AM
Latest UKHSA report shows the Covid-19 Vaccines have an average real world effectiveness of MINUS 73%
Last week we told you how the Covid-19 vaccines were proving to have an average negative effectiveness in everyone over the age of 18 in the UK of minus-seventy-percent. Today we can reveal that the latest report available from the UK Health Security Agency, which has recently replaced Public Health England, shows that the Covid-19 vaccines are now proving to have an average negative effectiveness in everyone over the age of 18 in the UK of minus-seventy-three-percent, despite being weeks into a booster jab campaign.
Pfizer claim that there Covid-19 mRNA injection has a vaccine effectiveness of 95%. They were able to claim this because of the following –
During the ongoing clinical trial, 43,661 subjects were split evenly between the placebo and vaccine groups (about 21,830 subjects per group).
In the placebo group — the group that didn’t have the Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine — 162 became infected with the coronavirus and showed symptoms.
Whilst in the vaccine group — the group that got the real vaccine — that number was only 8.
Therefore the percentage of placebo group who became infected equated to 0.74% (162 / 21830 x 100 = 0.74).
Whilst 0.04% of the vaccinate group became infected (8 / 21830 x 100 = 0.04)
In order to calculate the efficacy of their Covid-19 mRNA injection, Pfizer then performed the following calculation –
They first subtracted the percentage of infections in the vaccinated group from the percentage of infections in the placebo group.
0.74% – 0.04% = 0.7%
Then they divided that total by the percentage of infections in the placebo group, which equated to 95%.
0.7 / 0.74 = 95%.
Therefore, Pfizer were able to claim that their Covid-19 mRNA injection is 95% effective.
We don’t need to go into the fact that this calculation was extremely misleading and only measured relative effectiveness rather than absolute effectiveness. Neither do we need to go into the fact that Pfizer chose to ignore thousands of other suspected infections during the ongoing trial and not perform a PCR test to confirm the infection because it would have thrown efficacy below the required minimum of 50% to gain regulatory approval.
(cont...)
https://theexpose.uk/2021/11/05/covid-19-have-average-effectiveness-of-minus-seventy-three-percent/
yep
Post by: macsak on November 05, 2021, 11:41:21 AM
yep
maths are hard for some people...
Post by: hvybarrels on November 05, 2021, 12:11:33 PM
https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/cdc-director-refuses-tell-senators-how-many-cdc-employees-are-fully-vaxxd
Post by: drck1000 on November 05, 2021, 12:39:39 PM
maths are hard for some people...number salad. bruh
Post by: changemyoil66 on November 05, 2021, 01:02:35 PM
maths are hard for some people...
Good thing some only need to count up to 32, and possible less if wisdoms have been removed. :rofl: :rofl:
Post by: ren on November 05, 2021, 01:40:08 PM
maths are hard for some people...
not for me
(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.b9F0ey1T_7FZgz_NRAjaagHaFB%26pid%3DApi&f=1)
Post by: macsak on November 05, 2021, 01:51:38 PM
and math in general...
not for me
(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.b9F0ey1T_7FZgz_NRAjaagHaFB%26pid%3DApi&f=1)
Post by: macsak on November 05, 2021, 01:53:53 PM
google "supernumerary teeth"
Good thing some only need to count up to 32, and possible less if wisdoms have been removed. :rofl: :rofl:
Post by: changemyoil66 on November 05, 2021, 02:05:58 PM
focusNot a not a real doctor.
google "supernumerary teeth"
My bff was a teacher, had 1 kid use an abacus instead of calculator. He was the smartest in the class for math.
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on November 05, 2021, 02:19:48 PM
Not a not a real doctor.
My bff was a teacher, had 1 kid use an abacus instead of calculator. He was the smartest in the class for math.
Even the smartest kids have to be vaccinated to participate in sports.
Or, is that an oxymoron? :rofl:
Post by: ren on November 05, 2021, 02:39:47 PM
your people are good with the abacus
and math in general...
my "people"
You waycist!
Post by: aieahound on November 05, 2021, 05:48:36 PM
What is the dollar amount you guys were willing to give up to not get the jab?
At what did point you get the jab?
Post by: omnigun on November 05, 2021, 06:21:21 PM
Guys who got the jab.
What is the dollar amount you guys were willing to give up to not get the jab?
At what did point you get the jab?
-100 I would pay to get the vaxx.
Post by: changemyoil66 on November 06, 2021, 07:06:24 AM
Guys who got the jab.Corporate job making less than $60k a year is a definite get fired for not taking the jab.
What is the dollar amount you guys were willing to give up to not get the jab?
At what did point you get the jab?
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
Post by: Inspector on November 06, 2021, 09:06:44 AM
Federal court of appeals issues temporary halt to Biden vaccine mandate
https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=38772.msg402824#msg402824
Post by: ren on November 06, 2021, 09:08:08 AM
Cross post from the COVID thread
Federal court of appeals issues temporary halt to Biden vaccine mandate
https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=38772.msg402824#msg402824
Lets Go Brandon
Post by: eyeeatingfish on November 06, 2021, 06:38:46 PM
Guys who got the jab.
What is the dollar amount you guys were willing to give up to not get the jab?
At what did point you get the jab?
I took the vaccine before there was talk of getting fired so it wasn't part of my consideration. My decision was more just to protect my family members.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on November 06, 2021, 06:43:08 PM
Thousands of women going through the same thing. Scary big blood clots coming out, miscarriages, etc.
Meanwhile the media is silent. Their goal is to protect corporate profits at all cost.
(https://defendingtherepublic.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/18.jpg)
From my understanding, at least some of the corners that were cut were bureaucratic ones. The FDA is not known for its quick processing. I don't know how much time savings that lead to though.
I think a fair question to ask in all this is whether it has to take more time or not. Afterall, doing something a certain way just because that is the way it was always done doesn't mean it is necessarily the best way. Maybe there are perfectly good reasons why it was sped up?
Post by: eyeeatingfish on November 06, 2021, 06:52:19 PM
NEW UPDATE! :geekdanc:
I just talked to my daughter, and she informed me that her mother had psoriasis appear in 2014, but very mild. We were divorced in 2005, so that's why we never knew.
She also informed me her mother-in-law has had it for about 8 years. Doing the math, 2014 was about 8 years ago. Strange coincidence? Her case has also been very mild. Both said they only experienced minor, short-term rashes a few times a year, mostly above the shoulders.
What is also coincidental is BOTH WOMEN have had the COVID vaccine, and both are now experiencing moderate to severe rashes on their legs, arms and torsos in addition to face and neck.
Things that make you go, "Hmmmmm!"
I have psoriasis which didn't rear its head till I was in my late 20s. I think a stressful week at work caused the breakout. Got some light treatment and it went away. I will have a few small patches pop up here and there occasionally.
I took the J&J vaccine and I don't recall it causing my psoriasis to act up. It is plausible that the stress on the body from the reaction to the vaccine could trigger a psoriasis outbreak.
Post by: Jl808 on November 06, 2021, 09:19:49 PM
Nothing scientific, but I’ve been observing more people mentioning issues coming back (body aches, back aches, etc). They attribute it to old age or lack of exercise, but they usually don’t ever attribute it to an after effect of having taken the vaccine.
Post by: hvybarrels on November 06, 2021, 09:41:20 PM
I looked it up vax related painful lymph node swelling (first time I heard of it) and the medical establishment consensus is “don’t worry about it” but there is no treatment and nobody has any idea why it’s happening.
What a bunch of cowardly overpaid snake oil salesmen
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on November 06, 2021, 11:01:46 PM
Another friend is missing work for vaccine side effects. Second friend this week. Lymph node under his arm is swollen and extremely painful. Doctor said that he doesn’t know whats’ going on and can’t do anything. Nurse whispered to him that it’s probably a vax injury and they see a lot of them. Apparently medical staff is worried about getting in trouble for reporting vaccine injuries, so the VAERS database already showing record numbers of deaths and side effects is severely underreported.
I looked it up vax related painful lymph node swelling (first time I heard of it) and the medical establishment consensus is “don’t worry about it” but there is no treatment and nobody has any idea why it’s happening.
What a bunch of cowardly overpaid snake oil salesmen
The lymphatic system is a mystery for the medical community in and of itself. Doesn't surprise me that they can't identify what's causing it or if they can treat it.
It's a part of the circulatory system and the immune system.
I can't imagine how an injection that affects the body's IMMUNE SYSTEM could possibly cause changes in the lymphatic system, too.
Quote
The lymphatic system plays a major role in the body's immune system, as the primary site
for cells relating to adaptive immune system including T-cells and B-cells. Cells in the lymphatic
system react to antigens presented or found by the cells directly or by other dendritic cells.
When an antigen is recognized, an immunological cascade begins involving the activation
and recruitment of more and more cells, the production of antibodies and cytokines and the
recruitment of other immunological cells such as macrophages.
Post by: Inspector on November 07, 2021, 01:54:58 AM
My wife and I discussed whether we would get it for several weeks before we did. Neither of us wanted to get it. But we decided that since her immune system is compromised it would be best for us to get it.
Post by: hvybarrels on November 07, 2021, 07:51:06 PM
Post by: eyeeatingfish on November 07, 2021, 08:12:05 PM
Would your recent psoriasis outbreak have recurred if you had not taken the vaccine? I guess it’s all speculation so no need to answer. But maybe, this would be some food for thought since you like to consider all angles.
Nothing scientific, but I’ve been observing more people mentioning issues coming back (body aches, back aches, etc). They attribute it to old age or lack of exercise, but they usually don’t ever attribute it to an after effect of having taken the vaccine.
I did not have any recent psoriasis outbreaks since I got the J&J, at least not that I noticed. (Sometimes they can be very small and not easily noticed) My dad also has Psoriasis, I should ask him if he noticed any change after his vaccine.
I had fairly strong aches the evening of the vaccine but that went away by the end of the next day and nothing lasting that I have noticed.
Post by: hvybarrels on November 07, 2021, 10:23:28 PM
California Governor Out Of Public Sight Since Vaccine Booster Shot 11 Days Ago
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/california-governor-out-public-sight-vaccine-booster-shot-11-days-ago
(https://assets.zerohedge.com/s3fs-public/styles/inline_image_mobile/public/inline-images/10.27.21-covid-booster-1-980x653-700x420.jpg?itok=JvOkWt2w)
Post by: Inspector on November 08, 2021, 01:59:44 AM
It was at this moment Gavin knew... he f'ed up.I was seeing all sorts of notifications about this pop up yesterday. Unfortunately, if it is true he is having an issue with his booster shot we will probably never know. Even if he kicked the bucket from the booster we will probably never know the real reason. It is unfortunate that our most of the politicians and main stream press choose to lie because of an agenda instead of telling the truth. :grrr:
California Governor Out Of Public Sight Since Vaccine Booster Shot 11 Days Ago
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/california-governor-out-public-sight-vaccine-booster-shot-11-days-ago
(https://assets.zerohedge.com/s3fs-public/styles/inline_image_mobile/public/inline-images/10.27.21-covid-booster-1-980x653-700x420.jpg?itok=JvOkWt2w)
Post by: macsak on November 08, 2021, 07:53:43 AM
Post by: ren on November 08, 2021, 08:52:47 AM
It was at this moment Gavin knew... he f'ed up.
California Governor Out Of Public Sight Since Vaccine Booster Shot 11 Days Ago
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/california-governor-out-public-sight-vaccine-booster-shot-11-days-ago
(https://assets.zerohedge.com/s3fs-public/styles/inline_image_mobile/public/inline-images/10.27.21-covid-booster-1-980x653-700x420.jpg?itok=JvOkWt2w)
just a placebo...fake vax
Post by: macsak on November 08, 2021, 09:00:20 AM
fully vaxxed
haven't heard from her since then...
Post by: ren on November 08, 2021, 09:06:32 AM
jenn psaki tested positive oct 31
fully vaxxed
haven't heard from her since then...
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-sse0zp0ZtjM/VxHVFBXPIzI/AAAAAAAABnA/7vNjxScjX-oK2uEc2beBoP3ixvmS-HvQQCKgB/s640/i%2Bam%2Blegend3.jpg)
Post by: omnigun on November 08, 2021, 09:17:43 AM
jenn psaki tested positive oct 31
fully vaxxed
haven't heard from her since then...
Quarantine....
Post by: changemyoil66 on November 08, 2021, 09:55:58 AM
jenn psaki tested positive oct 31
fully vaxxed
haven't heard from her since then...
Not like she can zoom or anything.
Same goes for Newson, got his 3rd shot 11 days ago, and no one has seen him since. Unusual for him to be out of the public for that long.
Post by: macsak on November 08, 2021, 10:03:19 AM
BREAKING REPORT: Florian Dagoury, the World’s Top Static Freediver, Is DIAGNOSED WITH MYOCARDITIS After Taking Pfizer Vax – May End His Career...
MEDIA SILENT...
Post by: macsak on November 08, 2021, 10:03:44 AM
Post by: macsak on November 08, 2021, 10:04:05 AM
Post by: hvybarrels on November 08, 2021, 11:14:17 AM
just a placebo...fake vax
That would be funny if an angry healthcare worker gave him the real one instead.
Post by: changemyoil66 on November 08, 2021, 11:35:15 AM
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on November 08, 2021, 12:50:41 PM
I wonder when the first proms are open, will they only allow vaxxed to attend?
That reminds me of that creepy Hawaii PSA that shows a kid looking for a vaxxed "date" on his phone, and the old "aunties" giving him two "thumbs up" and a bunch of attaboys.
Post by: changemyoil66 on November 08, 2021, 01:00:12 PM
That reminds me of that creepy Hawaii PSA that shows a kid looking for a vaxxed "date" on his phone, and the old "aunties" giving him two "thumbs up" and a bunch of attaboys.
UH Mens Volleyball. That creeped me out too. But he does have a point, if you date an unvaxxed girl, you don't gotta take her out to eat. So save $ on tip and fancy places and booze.
Modern problems require modern solutions.
Post by: omnigun on November 08, 2021, 02:42:14 PM
I wonder when the first proms are open, will they only allow vaxxed to attend?
Hopefully.
Post by: ren on November 08, 2021, 02:46:15 PM
That reminds me of that creepy Hawaii PSA that shows a kid looking for a vaxxed "date" on his phone, and the old "aunties" giving him two "thumbs up" and a bunch of attaboys.
Glad no one does that here....
Post by: macsak on November 08, 2021, 03:57:40 PM
one says Bell's Palsy
another says Guillon-Barre' syndrome
last one says he got caught having an affair...
Post by: Direjackalope on November 08, 2021, 07:28:18 PM
UH Mens Volleyball. That creeped me out too. But he does have a point, if you date an unvaxxed girl, you don't gotta take her out to eat. So save $ on tip and fancy places and booze.
Modern problems require modern solutions.
My high school agriculture teacher used to like to remind us that, as long as you were going to a buffet, that taking out fat chicks was a better value per pound.
Post by: changemyoil66 on November 09, 2021, 09:26:56 AM
Another had a heart attack (Kali Muscle).
No mention of either if they got the vaxx or not. And unlike other athletes, they don't get paid to make tweets or statements about getting vaxxed. Both fly often for guess appearances or bodybuilding related stuff.
No causation yet, but I'm keeping watch. It isn't uncommon for people who have decades of roid, GH, RX fat burners, RX diuretics to die young. Many of these put lots of stress on the heart.
1 guy I do know from the gym who has similar drug usage, but not a pro bodybuilder, died a few weeks after getting his vaxx.
Side note, another bodybuilder is having more hard luck (Flex Wheeler). He lost his leg years ago in a car accident. For a bodybuilder with massive legs, this is a bigger deal than normal. Especially when you see magazine pics of yourself often with 2 legs. Then he had a kidney transplant 10 years ago (drug use related) and has been on auto immune pills since. This way his body doesn't reject the kidney. He was vaxxed and caught covid. Last time he posted, he was still in the hospital and doing relatively well. So combo auto immune pills plus the vaxx, probably cancelled out the vaxx.
Not 1 other pro bodybuilder has posted if they caught covid or not.
Post by: hvybarrels on November 09, 2021, 01:36:55 PM
Post by: changemyoil66 on November 09, 2021, 01:47:38 PM
Bodybuilders may appear healthy but they subject their bodies to toxic amounts of stress in order to achieve those results
This is what amazes me, they would take other supplements that are sold from the back of someones car, but refuse the vaxx. Makes no sense. Then enter the synthol guys.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on November 09, 2021, 02:41:20 PM
This is what amazes me, they would take other supplements that are sold from the back of someones car, but refuse the vaxx. Makes no sense. Then enter the synthol guys.
They should start rumors that the vaccines cause 4-hour erections, regrow hair, bulks up better than steroids, and lowers blood pressure.
Hell, it's not like they haven't been lying already!
Post by: Inspector on November 09, 2021, 02:47:47 PM
They should start rumors that the vaccines cause 4-hour erections, regrow hair, bulks up better than steroids, and lowers blood pressure.I can tell you for certain they don’t regrow hair. Sorry Mac.
Hell, it's not like they haven't been lying already!
heads (bald)
Post by: changemyoil66 on November 09, 2021, 04:25:19 PM
I can tell you for certain they don’t regrow hair. Sorry Mac.Buurrrrnnnnnnnnn
heads (bald)
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Post by: ren on November 09, 2021, 06:18:03 PM
Bodybuilders may appear healthy but they subject their bodies to toxic amounts of stress in order to achieve those results
they get paid mega bucks....
(https://manofmany.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/The-Rock-Tequila.jpg)
and he is nearing 50
he is bigger now than when he was half that age
(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.getbig.com%2Fboards%2Findex.php%3Faction%3Ddlattach%3Btopic%3D484556.0%3Battach%3D524913%3Bimage&f=1&nofb=1)
Post by: Brystont1 on November 09, 2021, 06:32:47 PM
they get paid mega bucks....
(https://manofmany.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/The-Rock-Tequila.jpg)
and he is nearing 50
he is bigger now than when he was half that age
(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.getbig.com%2Fboards%2Findex.php%3Faction%3Ddlattach%3Btopic%3D484556.0%3Battach%3D524913%3Bimage&f=1&nofb=1)
Easily explained just eat your vegetables. It even cures gyno.
Post by: drck1000 on November 09, 2021, 07:10:14 PM
I can tell you for certain they don’t regrow hair. Sorry Mac.bazinga
heads (bald)
Post by: hvybarrels on November 09, 2021, 07:13:23 PM
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/11/another-professional-soccer-player-collapses-field-emil-palsson-suffers-field-cardiac-arrest-resuscitated-field/
Post by: hvybarrels on November 09, 2021, 10:38:52 PM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PBBVt2RSno4
Post by: changemyoil66 on November 10, 2021, 07:20:32 AM
Least trustworthy corporation on the planet says we are criminals if we don’t trust the scienceAnd how many employees there are vaxxed? They wont say.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PBBVt2RSno4
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Post by: MassConfusion on November 10, 2021, 02:04:44 PM
Least trustworthy corporation on the planet says we are criminals if we don’t trust the scienceOh my gawd, I can't be seen with you people anymore... wait who is knocking at my doo.... :wacko:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PBBVt2RSno4
Post by: MassConfusion on November 10, 2021, 05:06:32 PM
I notice there seems to be some journalistic integrity.
https://youtu.be/Ydx_ok6gyiY
Post by: changemyoil66 on November 12, 2021, 07:54:13 AM
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Post by: omnigun on November 12, 2021, 09:27:32 AM
Whats the diff between the government and drug cartels...cartels dont force u to take drugs.
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Incorrect comparison. Not even close.
Post by: aletheuo137 on November 12, 2021, 09:46:08 AM
they get paid mega bucks....Steroids!
(https://manofmany.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/The-Rock-Tequila.jpg)
and he is nearing 50
he is bigger now than when he was half that age
(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.getbig.com%2Fboards%2Findex.php%3Faction%3Ddlattach%3Btopic%3D484556.0%3Battach%3D524913%3Bimage&f=1&nofb=1)
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Post by: Inspector on November 12, 2021, 09:47:10 AM
Whats the diff between the government and drug cartels...cartels dont force u to take drugs.The cartels may not force you to take drugs but the federal government is forcing companies with more than 100 employees to force their employees to take the jab or get fired.
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Post by: changemyoil66 on November 12, 2021, 09:53:20 AM
The cartels may not force you to take drugs but the federal government is forcing companies with more than 100 employees to force their employees to take the jab or get fired.
And state governments are coercing people to get jabbed too.
Post by: MassConfusion on November 12, 2021, 07:13:47 PM
Post by: eyeeatingfish on November 12, 2021, 08:03:09 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHfkTEacOWA
Post by: MassConfusion on November 15, 2021, 10:27:57 PM
I am not well versed in advanced biology, gen bio 1/2 college is as far as I went. Would like an opinion if you are able to give an informed comment.
https://www.civilianintelligencenetwork.ca/2021/10/07/science-confirms-mrna-vaccine-causes-hiv-dependent-aids/
Post by: omnigun on November 16, 2021, 08:47:25 AM
I have seen a few articles along this line but can't give it much validity other than what the article claims.
I am not well versed in advanced biology, gen bio 1/2 college is as far as I went. Would like an opinion if you are able to give an informed comment.
https://www.civilianintelligencenetwork.ca/2021/10/07/science-confirms-mrna-vaccine-causes-hiv-dependent-aids/
This is #fakenews at its max
You would think if a few billion people got vaxxed and everyone dies from cancer or the common cold as a symptom we would notice.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/11/04/fact-check-covid-19-vaccines-dont-cause-cancer-hiv/6255129001/
https://www.berkshireeagle.com/ap/factcheck/no-covid-19-vaccines-don-t-cause-hiv-aids-or-cancer/article_f4208202-3f11-11ec-9706-177006831388.html
Post by: changemyoil66 on November 16, 2021, 09:04:28 AM
I have seen a few articles along this line but can't give it much validity other than what the article claims.
I am not well versed in advanced biology, gen bio 1/2 college is as far as I went. Would like an opinion if you are able to give an informed comment.
https://www.civilianintelligencenetwork.ca/2021/10/07/science-confirms-mrna-vaccine-causes-hiv-dependent-aids/
I've read a few articles about this. Why do you think they want everyone to be vaxxed? This way there is no unvaxxed control group to compare too. Or the group is so small that it's findings would have no weight. Like how over 70% of HI is fully vaxxed.
Post by: omnigun on November 16, 2021, 09:13:57 AM
I've read a few articles about this. Why do you think they want everyone to be vaxxed? This way there is no unvaxxed control group to compare too. Or the group is so small that it's findings would have no weight. Like how over 70% of HI is fully vaxxed.
Pointless/baseless conspiracy. No proof of this statement.
#fakenews
Post by: macsak on November 16, 2021, 10:31:19 AM
but this article is conflating different test results on one or a small sample of people and claiming that it "proves" it can give you hiv/aids
just because the test results are similar does not prove causation...
I have seen a few articles along this line but can't give it much validity other than what the article claims.
I am not well versed in advanced biology, gen bio 1/2 college is as far as I went. Would like an opinion if you are able to give an informed comment.
https://www.civilianintelligencenetwork.ca/2021/10/07/science-confirms-mrna-vaccine-causes-hiv-dependent-aids/
Post by: hvybarrels on November 16, 2021, 09:44:39 PM
#notarealdoctor
but this article is conflating different test results on one or a small sample of people and claiming that it "proves" it can give you hiv/aids
just because the test results are similar does not prove causation...
We also have to be on the watch for cointelpro campaigns designed to discredit dissenters by planting easily disprovable false information
Just ask the Q-anon guys how that works.
Trust no sources without verification
Post by: changemyoil66 on November 23, 2021, 12:07:52 PM
Per DOCTOR Green on KHON2 this morning, he doesn't see it as the vaxx is being forced.
Post by: ren on November 23, 2021, 12:35:19 PM
Post by: changemyoil66 on November 24, 2021, 11:50:53 AM
He began with this company when he first started working, which is 20 years ago. So he worked his way up to the position he is in now. Could he quit and find another same position, probably. But he likes this company since they've treated him well from day 1 and promoted him as he worked hard. So why should he have to leave just because he doesn't want to get vaxxed (required for SOH contractors). So he was coerced to getting the jab. Even though his uncle died a week after getting his vaxx. This is why he is so against it. He has a fear of it. His company was OK with him not being vaxxed either, until the Fuehrer's mandates came out. Like they send him to Guam often, but since he was unvaxxed, they were OK with sending someone else in his place. So the company looked out for him as best as they could.
Switching careers is not an option due to the tattoo's he has (face). So he won't be able to get a white collar job that pays $100K a year with zero clerical XP.
Post by: aieahound on November 26, 2021, 03:42:46 PM
“ Sanchez, a UFC Hall of Famer, posted an update last week, saying that he was doing better after qualifying for Regeneron monoclonal antibodies. But since then, it appears things have taken a turn for the worse, leaving him with low oxygen levels, blood clots in both legs and pneumonia that has attacked his respiratory system.
…
Despite experiencing severe symptoms from COVID-19, Sanchez said he hasn’t taken his vaccination shots yet because he’s not entirely sold.“
Post by: Heavies on November 26, 2021, 05:15:47 PM
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/diego-sanchez-hospitalized-serious-case-143311071.html
“ Sanchez, a UFC Hall of Famer, posted an update last week, saying that he was doing better after qualifying for Regeneron monoclonal antibodies. But since then, it appears things have taken a turn for the worse, leaving him with low oxygen levels, blood clots in both legs and pneumonia that has attacked his respiratory system.
…
Despite experiencing severe symptoms from COVID-19, Sanchez said he hasn’t taken his vaccination shots yet because he’s not entirely sold.“
Not sure how taking the shots after you already have covid is going to do anything.
Also, with all the millions that have already contracted covid, why haven't they figured out why some people are severely affected and some die, while other barely show they are sick, some with nary a symptom.....
I'd think that would be an important piece of data, I mean, IF "saving lives" was soooooo important...
Post by: changemyoil66 on November 26, 2021, 05:29:25 PM
Not sure how taking the shots after you already have covid is going to do anything.Controlling the narrative is more important. Plus, losing weight is free.
Also, with all the millions that have already contracted covid, why haven't they figured out why some people are severely affected and some die, while other barely show they are sick, some with nary a symptom.....
I'd think that would be an important piece of data, I mean, IF "saving lives" was soooooo important...
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Post by: Flapp_Jackson on November 26, 2021, 05:32:13 PM
Not sure how taking the shots after you already have covid is going to do anything.
Also, with all the millions that have already contracted covid, why haven't they figured out why some people are severely affected and some die, while other barely show they are sick, some with nary a symptom.....
I'd think that would be an important piece of data, I mean, IF "saving lives" was soooooo important...
To me, those are the main puzzle pieces that are missing:
The vaccine is safe and effective -- except when it's neither safe nor effective. Is there anything those groups have in common?
Also, the COVID-19 virus kills people -- unless it doesn't. Survivors experienced a wide range of symptoms: "never had a symptom", "my symptoms were mild", "my symptoms were obviously COVID-19 related", and "I felt like I was going to die." What are the commonalities in these groups?
Finally, there appears to be a certain degree of effectiveness in vaccines to prevent infection -- except for the people who get infected in spite of the vaccine (break-out infections). Are there commonalities here? Would we ever be able to know if the symptoms are mild or absent? Once these vaccinated people are infected, they are able to spread the virus. Isn't that part of the "efficacy" indicators?
I feel like the guy standing outside of a restaurant where every 20th person walks out puking. Do I want to go in and take my chances, or can I wait to find out what's causing those people to get sick before I decide?
Post by: aieahound on November 26, 2021, 05:54:29 PM
…
Life finds a way.
https://youtu.be/oijEsqT2QKQ
Mutations. Adaptation. Evolution. Call it what you will
Post by: changemyoil66 on November 28, 2021, 12:41:32 PM
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